An Update On Solarez ICBINL

[@garytones434]

Bought the sparayable version and just layed out a thick wet coat over one side of a body. It's amazing. Sands out laser flat and powders up very well. I left it out in very overcast weather for 10 minutes. Sprayed it with a preval sprayer. Couldn't be happier.

[@AdrogMTB]

Thanks so much for all you do! I made some notes summarising the process in the last half of the video. Hope I got it right and is useful for some: Sand to 220 Remove all dust with tack cloth Wipe down with methylated spirits (denatured alcohol in the US) (If very oily wood, coat with sanding sealer) Coat with Solarez, brush is fine Leave for at least 5 mins before curing - this helps it level out Cure in direct sunlight if possible, will take longer but still cure if not too sunny Once cured, leave for at least 20-30 minutes - let it cool down No less than 2 coats Solarez and no more than 5 3-4 coats should work if level sanding, it is a thickish product Level sand between coats with 220 then 400 After final coat, level sand dry with highest grit you can get away with - 800 super Assilex sanding paper recommended and go through the grades to 3000 Then buff

[@rtroiani]

I just did a guitar with three coats of Solarez with sanding in between, then clear 2K as a final finish and worked great. However, I had issues in the past. One thing I did differently this time was look at the highest UV index in my weather app, which was between 12 and 2 the day I applied it. Even though there were clouds and some some peeking through, it hardened like a rock and powdered up nicely. In the past I was looking for sun, but then had some issues with it being gummy and resisting hardening. Just sharing.

[@AlternateUniverse]

Just did 5 light coats of Solarez on a Swamp Ash body. Wow!. It feels cured no tacky nothing. Its a hard glossy shell. I sanded w 400 and 600 in between and took my time. I just wanted to seal this body, but I'm def gonna give it a clear coat. I'm totally loving the Solarez.

[@V.Drouin]

Thanks a lot for all the information on the product. I've been searching for a good way to finish a guitar without spraying and I'm not the biggest fan of the oil finish look. Solarez seems like a great product and all the questions I had after watching your older videos have been answered by this one. There surprisingly isn't a lot of information online about the use of ICBINL, you seem to be the best source! Cheers

[@Andreas_Straub]

I used wipe-on-poly and only had good experiences with this when using a lot of thin layers. Highly recommended.

[@billysmether6237]

Been experimenting with the brush on. No problems drying at all, I use a box little larger than the guitar body. It has around 700 UV leds. No need to worry about what the sun is doing that day. If you are getting lots of bubbles use a different applicator. A paint brush is the worst. I love this stuff, just one hurdle in the way I can't get over. When you do layers, if you sand through to the layer below, it shows up that section of the layer. Think laminations. Better way to explain is that it would be like sanding through the top layer of a sheet of plywood to the layer underneath. Recoating does not solve the problem. Not a problem with epoxy resin, the layers fuse into a single layer. Not this stuff.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Those layers are witness lines. They are not an issue if you use a buffing machine with big buffing wheels and solid polishing compounds.

[@karelenhenkie666]

@@HighlineGuitars are you saying witness lines will disappear when buffing? I have a guitar with that issue on the bench right now and would love to safe it before thinking of refinishing.

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@karelenhenkie666 In my experience, witness lines can be buffed out. However, it only works with the right type of buffing machine (my buffer spins at 700-900rpm), the right type of buffing wheels (I use 14” flannel), and the right type of compounds (I use Menzerna 204 &275 solid compounds). Of course you results may differ due to a number of factors, so it may be necessary to try out different wheels and compounds to achieve success. I had to do a lot of testing before I found a combination that worked in my situation.

[@kay6736]

@@karelenhenkie666 Did you manage to buff out those lines? And what is the verdict on the layers, do they meld or do they go on top of each other with Solarez?

[@karmakarmakarma]

Thanks very much! Super helpful! May I ask two clarifying questions please? 1) You mention no more than 5 coats. Would that include the Sealer/Grain Filler coats or do you mean no more than 5 clear top coats over the Sealer/Grain Filler coats? 2) Is there a particular type of brush that you recommend for this product? Again, thank you for your videos.

[@jrjrdiablo_the_devils_advocate]

The grain filler will certainly degrade any ABS binding. Had this happen on a build that I spent a lot of time binding. Some posters on TDPRI forum have also confirmed this. So be aware.

[@johnlewis9700]

Love the video and glad I found this product! I'm planning to automate a curing space with a pair of uv lamps and my raspberry pi. I'll update on progress!

[@OttoVonRaz]

Such great content! I just subscribed, thank you for sharing so much with us.

[@Ramplcro]

Thanks for updates. Now i only hope i can buy it/order it easily in EU.

[@joewg3]

I built a guitar rotisserie, similar to a cup turner. I attach it to the neck and use a BBQ rotisserie to turn it. I can spray, or brush, my clear on a little heavier and then turn on the rotisserie so it levels out. I thin the Solarez and lay it on thick, turn on the rotisserie, and then after about 10 minutes I turn on my black light. Perfect every time.

[@HighlineGuitars]

I LOVE IT!

[@SteveKlamm-qh8if]

Would be interested in seeing what your "rotisserie" looks like! Pictures?

[@dalepres1]

Great video. I have to admit that I came to this video with a negative attitude, thinking you were going to dismiss the complaints for your (I assume) sponsor. You did an amazing job of addressing the issues with your knowledge and experience as well as expertise and feedback from the maker. One question I have, can Solarez be cured with UV-C lamps or with grow lights?

[@HighlineGuitars]

Not a sponsor. From their website: UV fluorescent tanning bulbs are a low-cost, relatively safe & effective curing method. Grow lights or “blacklights” won’t work. Mercury vapor (metal halide) arc-lamps are highly effective however they pose hazards (heat, ozone, harmful to eyes) to the user. LED lamps are safe & effective but a bit pricey. LED lights have extremely specific wavelengths (±5nm) whereas wideband wavelengths cure better.

[@dalepres1]

@@HighlineGuitars Thank you for the clarification and apologies for making an assumption. If they're not a sponsor, and you've been using it for 5 years and are still promoting it, that says a lot for the product and they certainly are in your debt.

[@stringtheoryx]

Lots of helpful comments here, Chris. You suggested using a sanding sealer that will block oils (Rosewood, etc). Have you found anything reliable?

[@HighlineGuitars]

Crystalac It's Knot Shellac or Solarez Vinyl Ester sealer.

[@stringtheoryx]

@@HighlineGuitars Thanks. Coincidence--I just bought the "Knot Shellac" and was wondering what sets it apart. I'll also give Solarez Vinyl Ester sealer a try. I do love the UV cure of their products, but I have not had good luck in keeping the surface smooth. More practice, I suppose.

[@Jaloja]

That could be a reaction from the cure pushing or expelling some % of the material as it cures. For example some of the finish may not find a material to bond with. Polyester materials do strange things too.

[@ThyFellowServant]

Thanks for all the great videos and info! I'm building a bass with a black walnut body and a highly figured olive wood top. I'm planning to use de-waxed shellac as a sealer before the top coat. I'm looking for a high gloss, deep, wet looking finish to really highlight the olive grain. I'm wondering your thoughts on using solarez, brite tone, or a combination of the two?? Thanks...

[@HighlineGuitars]

The only thought I can offer is that you should test on scrap wood before you commit to your project.

[@christopherhall5315]

Thanks for updated review, Chris. I am wondering what you are using when you need to make a custom color for a finish? I find mixing colors very challenging, especially if I am asked to "match" a specific color. Additionally, I am hoping you will go over sanding techniques again. I can get the back of a guitar almost to that "mirror like shine", but the front sides still end up with a little waveyness in the final product. I assume it has to do with all the cavities in the front of the guitar and an incorrect technique to sand around them. I really enjoy your channel. Thanks Chris!

[@HighlineGuitars]

I use Createx paints for mixing solid colors. On large flat surfaces, I use a long, hard sanding block to level the surface. On curved surfaces like the sides, I use a long rubber block that conforms to the curves. I use these blocks mostly during the initial leveling stage with P400-P600 grit sheets. After this initial leveling stage I switch to a soft foam interface pad with Super Assilex K800 to K3,000 grit to polish out the scratches. Then I buff.

[@christopherhall5315]

@@HighlineGuitars Thanks Chris. I'll try a small, hard sanding block on the front side and pay a little more attention to technique.

[@AFerrenden]

@@HighlineGuitars - I'm glad you mentioned Createx Colours, I have been searching for whether 1. ICBINL can be used as a gain filler (have a bottle on hand from a while ago) and 2. if Createx Colours (especially if mixed with the 4050 urethane) can be applied over the Solarez product without issue. Basically have you tried to paint over a project you have coated with Solarez?

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@AFerrenden Yes, I have. Before I spray the color, I always use Createx Airborne Sealer first. Their sealer will provide a barrier coat between the Solarez and the color coats. It also ensures the best adhesion possible.

[@Owensguitarstudio]

Might be worth noting that people should perhaps refresh their stock of Solarez. I first bought some about 6 years ago and always/still have issues with it not levelling and not curing if I apply it too thin. I got a smaller bottle just to test/compare last year and had the same issues. But, I just acquired a new one straight from Solarez and it's completely different, and seems to behave exactly how it does in these videos! I mean it has a completely different consistency (a lot more runny) and smells fairly strong - a bit like spray paint. Living in New Zealand the postage is a lot more than the product so I purchased the original bottles from other companies closer to home, I guess who knows how long those were sitting on the shelves? I can't see anything relating to an expiry date on the bottles but after some digging on their website they seem to suggest using it within a year. Long story short, solarez are apparently always "refining" the product so go get a new bottle, it's working exactly how it says it should for me now.

[@sfvmark7]

Can you use oil based poly or standard lacquer (rattle can) over the ICBINL grain filler/sealer? Would it be better to put a layer of shellac in between?

[@chrisbardolph]

I've had something similar happen with epoxy. It almost feels like there's a greasy coating on it. After wiping it down with some cleaner or solvent though, it feels smooth and is indeed hard.

[@breiningguitars]

Super helpful! For a mirror finish on walnut and ash, would you recommend starting with the ICBINL sanding sealer then going to the ICBINL top coat, or can I start right away with the ICBINL top coat?

[@HighlineGuitars]

I would recommend the the ICBINL sealer first. It may take several coats to fill in the grain and you should sand between coats to get a smooth surface without any grain texture. Then use the ICBINL top coat. The top coat alone won't fill in the grain very well. Also, the sealer is formulated to create a surface that is ideal for the top coat to bond to.

[@breiningguitars]

@@HighlineGuitars I appreciate the quick response! I'm sold, will try it.

[@jeffreytgilbert]

The self leveling time really matters for letting those bubbles escape. I'd recommend also putting your piece under a tupperware container or some other dust proof container or space while it's doing the self leveling because all those particulates and bubbles definitely show up after buffing. I have also noticed that if you layer on the solarez too thick in each coat, and this is especially true with carved tops, it can have a tendency to run and pool up at the edges of the body and create thicker areas down there that are really tricky to level sand without accidentally blowing through the finish and marring your piece. I really love this product and I can knock a piece out really quickly due to the UV curing if i just plan ahead and am patient enough with not putting too much on and not rushing to get it out to cure before it has self leveled.

[@leewilliamson7114]

Question: If I'm going to be painting over the solarez does it matter if I sand through the solarez? Does this stuff fill the grain and hide the texture of it if you sand down to the wood? I am priming, painting, and clear coating my guitar with automotive grade paint products. My issue is I keep sanding through this stuff and after 4 coats I'm getting tired of recoating and I'm ready to just shoot the paint to it.

[@HighlineGuitars]

I think you'll be fine if, as you say, you'll be using primer. Do yourself a favor and test your whole plan on some scrap wood.

[@thesjkexperience]

I used to fix my surfboard with that stuff in the 90's! I have a Strat body im going to do a dye finish on and maybe that could use something like this. Thanks.

[@r.llynch4124]

Can you spray water based color over the ICBINL sealer and then use the ICBINL clear over the water based color?

[@HighlineGuitars]

Yes.

[@Mherkava]

Chris thanks for the important update. Is there a precise minimum UV threshold reading for curing each of the sealer and the finish ? That would take the guessing out for those in colder areas or even in hot areas but on days which have lower UV readings. For instance today where I am it's now 27⁰C and UV reading of 10. Is this ample? Thanks.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Ask Solarez. I don't know.

[@furi0nblack363]

Has anyone had it not level out enough? It looks kind of pitted? Any way to fix it by like sanding it back a little without losing paint layer? Any suggestions is welcomed.

[@ThekiBoran]

Have you seen or tried Clean Armor?

[@HighlineGuitars]

I have seen it. Haven't tried it. Probably won't due to the price.

[@mannyacquafredda7925]

Hey Chris, love your videos! My question to you, can you apply Solarez over lacquer… a silver metallic lacquer to be exact. The color coat was sanded with 220 grit sandpaper. Well I did I apply it and it did feel tacky and wet in some spots and it took a long time to dry if it is even dry. I didn’t get the squeak out of it in some spots where it did look dry I like the results. I live in New Jersey and the time that I did this was March 18th late afternoon, not full sun, just for reference. Any input would help. Thanks, Chris !

[@HighlineGuitars]

You’ll have to contact the manufacturer for advice on this.

[@mannyacquafredda7925]

@@HighlineGuitars Thanks Chris I’ll do that!

[@dougotto1451]

I had the brush-on refuse to cure. It was really odd. I'd already put down, and cured, 2 coats. Sanded between, cleaned with naptha and let dry. 3 coat absolutely wouldn't cure. Totally unsandable, it was very soft. I had to strip the layer completely off. Let everything sit overnight after I had and the next coat worked just fine. No idea what actually happened. I live at almost 5800' in NM. UV isn't a problem. 😅

[@HighlineGuitars]

I suspect your 3rd coat was exposed to a UV wavelength that might have been outside of the range that Solarez needs. It requires UV385nm to thoroughly cure. I'm not an expert on this, but I do know that the sun's UV wavelength can change not only by the hour throughout the day, but also from one day to the next. Even if the sun is bright, there are numerous factors (time of day, daily and seasonal arc-path of the sun, latitude, cloud cover, smog, wildfire smoke, altitude) that can affect the UV wavelength. I just cured 3 coats of Solarez ICBINL on a guitar body today and all of them cured bone dry. This was done during a 2 hour period when the UV index was at its highest for the day.

[@Owensguitarstudio]

I'm in New Zealand and I've only had trouble with it not curing when I apply it too thin - typically when using a foam pad/makeup applicator. It sort of sets, but just gums up when sanding. My biggest issue is that it doesn't level out much - nowhere near what I've seen it do in your videos. As such I end up taking soo much off level sanding and it's so easy to sand through to the previous layer. Are there times when you just cure more than one coat without level sanding in between?

[@HighlineGuitars]

I always sand between coats to promote adhesion.

[@Owensguitarstudio]

@@HighlineGuitars I noticed you said you sand 220 and 400, do you work your way up to 400 or just jump straight there? Thanks again.

[@garrettguitar]

Correct in that it's exothermic (chemist in a previous life). Exothermic reactions give off heat; thus, the object will feel warm/hot to the touch.

[@MillardEllingsworth]

When I'm using Solarez ICBINL as a grain filler, what does it mean to "sand through" it? Don't I want to remove all of the ICBINL that isn't IN the wood so I can apply final finish and NOT apply it on top of the ICBINL? I'm aware some folks try to use it as a final coat, but that's not its intended purpose.

[@HighlineGuitars]

If you stained or painted the wood before applying the grain filler, sanding through can happen if you try to sand off the filler from the surface. Not only will you sand off the excess filler, but you risk sanding off the color.

[@MillardEllingsworth]

@@HighlineGuitars got it. There are so many possible approaches and it can be difficult to provide sufficient context for just about any statement.

[@MillardEllingsworth]

@@HighlineGuitars follow up: do you ever want to leave a layer of ICBINL behind?

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@MillardEllingsworth as far as the sealer/filler is concerned, I usually leave the last coat to serve as a base for whatever I need to apply next.

[@MillardEllingsworth]

@@HighlineGuitars as many of your videos as I have watched, I don't think I got that part of the message.

[@Jgreen2794]

While I really like the grain filler, I have just about abandoned the top coat due to 2 problems I can't seem to find a solution to. One is that it just refuses to level. Even leaving it out over night, it still won't level out good. The other is bubbles. It has bubbles that can only be removed by sanding down to wood. There are some things it refuses to cure over, but it isn't too picky. I always leave it out at least 10 minutes. And yes, it does still feel just a bit tacky on the surface even when fully cured. But like Chris says, hit with some sandpaper, and you will soon know if it has cured. You can tint it with alcohol based dyes. You can't make it opaque though. I have been trying to figure out how to use the Solarez Polyester finish. That is some crazy stuff. Even if I thin it by putting it in the microwave for a few seconds, as soon as it hits wood, it thickens up immediately, and will not level in the least. It might be possible to spray it, but I don't have spray equipment. I have actually had that stuff cure without any exposure to UV. I love the toughness of it, but doubt that I can ever use it on a guitar. If it wasn't so expensive, it would be great for a small table top where you could just pour it on. Keep up the good work Chris. I enjoy your channel, and have learned quite a bit by watching.

[@michaelsablan8772]

Why put it in a microwave? That part doesn’t sound like something you should even do!?

[@HighlineGuitars]

Yes, you can warm it in a microwave. However, I recommend using a microwave dedicated to this use instead of one you also cook food in. An alternative is to warm the resin in a double boiler. Warming the resin thins it to a water-like viscosity, which lasts as long as the resin remains warm. Once it cools, it returns to its natural viscosity.

[@lookiloo100]

can you use a thin layer of marine epoxy as a wood filler?

[@HighlineGuitars]

[@jlgultra1]

Thanks! After staining a color is it recommended to spray a can of clear coat before applying Solarez I noticed my pad turning color when testing

[@HighlineGuitars]

Hey, thanks for the tip! And here's a tip for you: try spraying some spray can shellac over the color before applying the Solarez.

[@jlgultra1]

Thank you - love your videos How does the solarez compare to wipe on poly ? I’ve been testing out the solar Rez on veneer and the Guitar shop here says they use wipe on Polly and I’m wondering what would be better for the Guitar neck

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@jlgultra1 In terms of durability, it's about the same. As far as ease of application, Solarez is much better simply because it cures in minutes whereas wipe on poly can take weeks to fully cure.

[@johnpecoraro1720]

Can the solarez be thinned? I’m wondering if a little extra absorption could harden softer woods. I have a pine body that I would like to harden a bit to prevent denting. Am I asking this product to do a job that might be better served by another product?

[@jamesnelson1607]

The Solarez company makes a wood sealer, which is great for what you are looking to do. I would suggest using that on your pine first. A couple of coats are all you need. Then, apply a couple of coats of ICBINL over that.

[@HighlineGuitars]

You thin it, by warming it.

[@johnkirkpatrick1778]

@@HighlineGuitars I know that it's common practice to use gentle heat to help remove bubbles from resin-filled furniture ("wave tables"), would this have any benefits with ICBINL? Though you'd need a hair dryer with a good filter to minimise dust being blown on to the still-wet surface.

[@listerguitars]

So I just used the Solarez and in my second coat it wrinkled on me all over in sporadic spots all over. I looked online but I cannot find anywhere that says anything about it wrinkling. The first coat was just fine. Any thoughts?

[@HighlineGuitars]

It almost sounds like there may have been some kind of surface contamination that caused sporadic wrinkling. Did you scuff sand the first coat and wipe it with a tack cloth before applying the second?

[@listerguitars]

@HighlineGuitars Yes I sanded it and wiped it clean. But during the application of the second coat, 90% of the area coated great but a few spots acted like it did not want to adhere. But once taken outside, it wrinkled all over in different spots. I did email Solarez tech and they say it could of been possible due to to thick of material. I don't know.

[@rachidboutihane5772]

Thank you

[@warmtonecustomguitars]

Hi thanks for update!, do you have any experience with finishing a guitar with icbinl grain sealer, the product seems similar to the actuall clear coat

[@HighlineGuitars]

Actually, the grain sealer is formulated to be thicker and more adherent than the clear coat. You could use it as a grain sealer and a clear top coat, however, it doesn't buff out as well as the clear coat. Alternatively, you could use the clear coat as both a sealer and a clear top coat, however, as a grain sealer, it doesn't fill the grain as well which can cause the grain texture to telegraph up through your top coats. That texture can be tough to level sand out prior to buffing.

[@mattkilareski3251]

Has anyone tried using Solarez for woodturning? I’m thinking of applying it at a super low rpm (20-50) and then cure it while it rotates with a lamp setup. Has anyone tried this?

[@broberts1871]

What if your sealer is shellac? Won’t the alcohol wipe harm the shellac and therefore not seal?

[@HighlineGuitars]

It will make the shellac tacky until the alcohol fully evaporates, but it won't prevent it from sealing the wood.

[@michaelsablan8772]

I think it matters on the texture of a person’s hands…..soft and supple, calloused, dirty(yes, some people aren’t thinking or careless),sweaty, etc. when they are touching the surface, post curing.

[@karelenhenkie666]

Yep, I have hands that stick and make the poly feel rubbery. Ive had plenty of customers with poly on their guitars who do not have any such issue. Skin and body oils differ very much between people and react with finish a lot. I can also burn through shellac with my sweat😅

[@jlgultra1]

Thanks!

[@HighlineGuitars]

You are very welcome, and thank you!

[@subd3]

Fabio loves Solarez! I heard it's great on toast!

[@charlesschlesinger5901]

Its the air inhibited layer. All resins have a layer that is tacky until you wipe it off or polish it.

[@darkandus]

Also known as amine blush. Wipe off with 90% IPL.

[@broberts1871]

I had fisheye on a walnut top, but not the Spanish cedar body. Same recipe…is walnut the problem?

[@HighlineGuitars]

Yes.

[@broberts1871]

What would you say the problem is? It has been sealed with dewaxed shellac

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@broberts1871 A surface contaminant. Use ICBINL sealer instead of shellac.

[@sean1121970]

I just had a go with it on an alcohol stained finish. I tried to use the sealer first and it sucked the dye out then only cured here and there - total failure 😂 I should have done a test with it first.

[@lwhack458]

Good to know. What do you seal with now?

[@sean1121970]

Not sure just yet. It destroyed the finish to the point that I have to do it again so I'm going back to my regular finish for now. I'll probably do a bit more testing before trying it again.

[@HighlineGuitars]

When using alcohol dyes on wood, I like to add a binder like water-based polyurethane to lock the dye into the wood so my sealer won't reactivate the dye and suck it out of the wood.

[@bucknaked31]

@@HighlineGuitars That sounds like a good idea. I was told by the guy who devolved the finish for Fender that you should use a vinylester sealer to lock in the dye before using polyester for a topcoat. My issue at the time was that the sealer I was using contained acetone, and it soaked into the body (like it should to set up a mechanical bond) and took the dye with it. You could especially see it around the endgrain, which literally had no dye left. This was before UV catalysts were available and it was all MEKP curing. We were using Duratec polyester resin sealer, then Duratec gloss topcoat over that. Once I discovered Solarez, I never looked back. Now there’s all these great UV products available, but some of the old polyester tips and tricks still apply.