Frustrated with Garmin: Time for a Change? Apple Watch Ultra 2?

[@Hikingguy]

This isn't a general recommendation video for all OS users and watches that would be best for them. I'm sharing my experience. I'm a primarily an Apple user. If you have Android, Apple Watch is not a good choice. Stay tuned for some Android recommendations. UPDATE: Just another restart bug example from testing today (10/28) with 11.90 firmware: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmrbq31_a9Nqq68 UPDATE2: Updated Epix Pro to 18.16 firmware (10/29) and this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/roWbmJyDp9Njftk

[@AlicanteTrailCam]

@@Hikingguy Any thoughts on the Forerunner 965 as an alternative to a Fenix?

[@Hikingguy]

@@AlicanteTrailCam Yea it's great, just the necessary features without the fluff - I'd check the Garmin support forums and see if there are any issues now though

[@lesliedykstra4014]

@@AlicanteTrailCam I personally prefer the coros watches.

[@cdd543]

Good video. I had a bad experience with the Fenix 8 and returned mine. It was so buggy and laggy even using the beta firmware. I’m having issues with my 7x pro as well. Garmin has never fully fixed their messy change to the skiing activity where they started counting lift rides in your total distance. They partially fixed it, but if you look at your activity history it shows zero miles as a ski distance summary. This started last ski season, so we are pushing a year with this bug. I also have been having the issue where I am connecting headphones and it just loops on searching/connect then back to searching and sometimes I have to restart the watch to break the loop. I’ve been with Garmin for many years back to the original Fenix versions, but I’m ready to switch. Not a huge fan of the Apple Watch style, but I might try it. Also considering the Vertix 2s, but it seems a bit dated.

[@lesliedykstra4014]

Yes I think the coros watches are better also.

[@cidercreekranch]

What is happening at Garmin is the same that is happening at many other corps... pump-up the share price by cutting staff, charging more and then cashing out. Leaving the rotting corpse behind for the next person to deal with.

[@ClydeNut]

@@cidercreekranch yep, it’s private equity destroying yet another company

[@DaytonPruet]

Are there any news articles to search for that cover this? I searched on Google for any private equity firms acquiring Garmin and cannot find anything.

[@v5745]

Well, two three months and they will repair all the flaws in software, as always. Who buys new Fenixes just after release? You're just a free beta testers for the company. Thats how things are going now - believe me, software engineers are not the ones responsible for date of release of product. The software will be fixed sooner or later as it was after Fenix 7 release.

[@GregHinsley]

Yeah what you're describing has a name en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

[@andy5478-MTB]

No Garmin is not being gutted by private equity. In fact both founders of Garmin especially Min Kao are still very active in managing Garmin operations. My personal experience is that Garmin uses customers somewhat to beta test. Don't buy the newest products if you don't like that. Most issues will be fixed in a few software releases. Wait to buy if you want. Just Weds morning I spent 40 mins on a phone call with Garmin support to address a new issue with my old Fenix 6 Pro. The competence and professionalism of the guy that helped me fix the issue is a model of excellence. Given my depth of knowledge with the AW, iPhone, Android and Garmin platforms I find the blind fanboism for Apple to be quite odd.

[@EricKummert]

I have been using the Apple Ultra watch for about 1 year with WorkOutDoors and Footpath and it performs rock solid with offline maps in the US and other countries. I enjoy biking, walking, etc and the battery life is fine. I also like having LTE on my watch for fall detection, calls, etc. I do not use my Garmin Fenix 6x pro any more. I also use my Garmin Inreach mini with the enabled plan worldwide. There is no doubt that Garmin’s battery life is the best.

[@grbta1124]

Thanks great review. I work for a large outdoor retailer that sells Garmin products. The complaints i hear are very much in line with your comments. Bugs, and maps are the major complaints and we get more returns than i would have expected. I am amazed at what Garmin is trying to monetize, long term use and desire to upgrade is driven largely by the ecosystem, they seem to be forgetting this. Looking forward to your Amazfit trex 3 review.

[@Hikingguy]

Thanks for sharing that, appreciate it. And yea, as someone who loves Garmin it's been more than frustrating.

[@Fozzee.1970]

I've had Garmins for years. My Epix Pro is more stable than any model I've had. I get a reboot maybe every 6 months. These watches need a soft reset regularly to stop this happening.

[@bohan2974]

For a watch costing $1,000 or more, the basic functionality issues with the Fenix 8 are simply unacceptable. Garmin might be resting on its reputation, as it’s often the first brand that comes to mind for outdoor products. It’s time to seriously consider other options. Looking forward to your reviews on Suunto and Amazfit.

[@adamluthfie7]

@@bohan2974 garmin is king currently. If they are not beeing innovative and keep beeing sloppy They gonna get de thrones soon

[@AutoRitYLNX]

Trust me Suunto is not better .. i had Vertical .. they have promised superb battery .. then they have introduced Hrv implementation and battery started to be less effective and now .. they are still fixing battery draining .. and trust me .. i have received message from suunto we are moving our data to china .. accept or delete account .. what I did .. immediately sold I am living in Europe bought Suunto made in Finland and now is completely chinesse .. included data .. similar issues I had with Polar Grit X2 pro .. jesus they selling this watch for 850$ but they weren't able to sync in ios .. they have fixed this after 3 months .. what the hell .. so Garmin is still perfect .. trust me they are offering a lot of function as Suunto and Polar are providing simple services always the same ..

[@adamluthfie7]

@@bohan2974 still garmin for me. Unless Apple watch start open to android Amazfit head a good start. Waiting for Amazfit t rex 4 or 5 after t more years Which im expecting my garmin 965 to be irrelevant by then

[@Fernweh_8]

I also finally had to ditch garmin after a lot of disappointment…..Removing features, quality issues, inaccuracies, slow, and on and on. I finally sold my fenix 7 pro and went back to my Apple Watch Ultra 2 and get way more value out of it. “Balance” is a good description. Glad to know I’m not alone. After seeing this video I feel confident I made the right choice. Thanks for doing what you do. Your channel has been asset for me.

[@Hikingguy]

Thank you, appreciate that

[@lyubravia]

I’ve already shared this on ChaseTheSummit's channel, and I’ll say it again here - Garmin has lost my trust. It’s frustrating that I have to rely on my older 6X instead of the newly bought 7X Pro, which is essentially unusable due to a multitude of firmware bugs. It’s unacceptable to have so many problems without a clear resolution timeline for your customers. I’m now watching to see what Coros does with their Vertix, and I may make the switch.

[@mannys5694]

Battery life is the only reason I have a garmin. No other reason as a casual outdoorsy guy.

[@Adventures4vida]

me too, if AWU would last for a week without needing to be charged it would be my only watch. Till then Ill keep my EPIX.

[@mannys5694]

@@Adventures4vida Same

[@HAL_9000_YT]

@@Adventures4vida same

[@v5745]

@@Adventures4vida Hmm, did you tried to use AWU in rain? In winter with thick gloves? Mount on bike and using as a bike computer and change screens when biking? Did you tried to load any other maps, than provided by Workoutdoors Topo Map+ etc? Did you found ClimbPro feature on AWU (or any similar? I did tried with no success, so I will wait with change until AWU will get any close to this. I do not think this will happen any soon, as Apple Watches are targeted to different group of customers; it's a smartwatch for every day use, for casual hikers or bikers.

[@jaskeda]

We are always bringing backup batteries

[@LeeBoris974]

I recently switched back to Apple after a few years of Garmin. Happy with it, but I do miss the button controls of Garmin.

[@TheSorrowLives]

@@LeeBoris974 you got an Ultra? workOutDoors app is great, can generally and can make the action button stop runs

[@planemadmatt]

I've jumped back to the Apple Watch and sold my old Garmin Fenix. Hopefully Garmin will bounce back, but for what I need it for - a map/compass and the iPhone OS app is all I really need.

[@NatendoSwitch]

Got my epic Gen 2 during prime day and been loving it as my daily driver. Maybe the answer lies in the sale value of products and not the full MSRP value. I love this watch.

[@Hikingguy]

Yea Epix G2 and Pro are still my favorites. Solid and do what they promise.

[@michaelmarziotto8105]

@@Hikingguy True.. my choice as well. But try getting a backcountry route with off-route waypoints into the Epix. Basecamp & Explore are both awful. Connect can't create off-course waypoints. CalTope & Gaia are my choice but you need to do all kind of conversations of the GPX file to get it to display on the Epix with routable waypoints. I am tired of calling Garmin to inquire whether there is an easier way...

[@overland_adventure_nz]

Well said, I moved to an Apple Watch Ultra two years ago and have not used any of my Garmin devices since except for navigation in my vehicle.

[@williamkterrell]

As a former professional athelete whom has used Garmin for years but with all the new metrics, as you noted use with a grain of salt makes sense. So true, over kill and much of the metrics are a waste of time. Apple has been stead fast and more dependable. To much junk making Garmin to conveluded.

[@nrs8043]

Bugs: I have the same bugs with my Epix that I had with the Fenix. Garmin do not fix bugs. Innovation: best quote I’ve heard about Garmin “We don’t find new ways we find existing ways”. (And now charge you more for it) Imagine buying a $2000 watch and now you have to pay for a mapping subscription!? Garmin have also spread themselves so so thin, thousands of products and variations to support and maintain. They should just build 5 good products! Sometimes I think they’re going to become the Nokia of our generation. I’m looking for an alternate company as well- for all the same reasons you’ve stated.

[@rafski123]

I still carry my Nokia Club membership card in my wallet! (joking!)

[@daveleach8302]

I gave up on Garmin and switched to using my AW ultra 2. I didn’t like that while on trail I was forced to charge it ever night. Not a super big deal, however about 6 months ago I purchased the Coros Vertix 2 and the battery is crazy. The Vertix 2 has been replaced by the newer Vertix 2S but both have crazy battery life. I can get almost a month using it as my daily driver. It doesn’t have the bells & whistles that the Apple Watch has but in my opinion if you’re looking for a hiking watch it’s perfect. Like with any device there is always room for improvements, but I’ll take weeks of battery life over the Apple Watches bells and whistles! Just my opinion

[@Hikingguy]

I think a new Vertix might be coming out on Oct 31 - will check it out thanks for sharing that - coros.com/new

[@jamesg0827]

Great video, experienced most of the issues that you did with the F8. Appreciate your honest opinion and feedback! Too many KZbin videos out there that did not mention any of these issues and are obviously afraid to get on the wrong side of Garmin.

[@161Baker]

I’ve always been a fan of Garmin aswell. But this year and the next time, I will not spend 1199 Euros for a Garmin fenix 8 watch in Germany. They lost there minds. 😅

[@robhunt8378]

Garmin is great as an old school sports watch. Their products are quirky but they mostly get the job done and typically prices were not the cheapest but reasonable. These days they're trying to play the smartwatch game with the big boys and they just don't have the software platform or perhaps even the expertise to build it. Which is why I'll never spend the crazy money they ask for a Fenix 8. Even when discounts finally come the price is just too high for the user experience they offer. They need to step it up or might find out that people are going to start demanding more out of their "premium" devices.

[@Tmacademia]

My fenix 6x sapphire is excellent, but I'd be pissed too if I bought a F8 at that price and it was all buggy. I would never buy the latest Garmin model. I will buy at least 1 flagship model behind. No way I'm paying $1k for a watch

[@edgarp66]

my problem with garmin is that theyre obviously in a rush to compete with apple. Apple will one day come out with more advance tracking features. Garmin needs to get a grip and find their place before apple sweeps them out.

[@Littkickks]

I agree I went on a hike yesterday testing the ultra, galaxy watch ultra, and Suunto race. I must say footpath really puts the Apple Watch on another level.

[@heiser_bill]

I’ve never had a Garmin watch, just a few different iterations of the Apple Watch (currently Ultra 2). But aside from battery life the AW meets my needs. More of my time is spent not on the trail than on the trail, so I prefer the balance of smartwatch functionality vs “sports” functionality. Also I prefer being able to choose my own apps from the vast App Store selection vs using what’s built in (Garmin).

[@MigRx]

When the vitals app came out, people were commenting about how HRV was missing and how because of that it’s not a true sports watch etc. but HRV can vary wildly and it’s affected by so many things. RHR is also inversely related to HRV so if RHR is low, HRV is high and if RHR is high, HRV is low. Just by that alone, you only need RHR to make the assumptions these watches make. Along with the bugs, two days ago my Fenix 8 started not syncing to my phone overnight. No changes at all, and it deleted overnight data so I’m left with nothing in the morning. When I try to pair to the phone, watch crashes. It’s so disappointing to see so many issues with a watch $200 more expensive than the previous version

[@matthiaswuest7271]

​@@MigRx just FYI RHR is not strictly inversely correlated with HRV, there's loads of variation. Curious where you got this information?

[@franciscosusana2292]

I thought I was the only one with problems. Thanks for the video!

[@carlosjosesoto1868]

I have the exact same feeling of frustration with Garmin. I have also been a long time user and switched from my forerunner 965 to the Fenix 8 OLED 47mm just to find it didn't delivered what was promised. Is not yet reliable, but for the price tag it should have been a tested device for the moment it was launched. Thank you for your review on the apple watch ultra 2 I think they will slowly get to challenge Garmin if they don't focus on the client again. As you say they are charging for many things but can't deliver the solid reliability they used to . Great review.

[@mmh129]

The Fenix E is even worse, a shameless money grab. The added the new UI to the 2yo Epix and released it as a new model (Fenix E). But, they also say they won't add new features present in the Fenix E to the Epix or Epix Pro because of compatibility issues despite having the same or even more capable hardware. Also, charging $5+ for a watch face. inReach price increases, ignoring big bugs reported during beta, etc... Garmin has taken a turn for the worst. Enshittification has already started.

[@emmatuxedo2565]

I wear a Garmin 965 on one wrist and an Apple Ultra on the other. I like the Garmin's presentation of its metrics better than the Ultra, but if bugs began to invade the 965's software, I may give up on Garmin. Apps like Gentler Streak and Elite HRV and Athlytic make the Ultra sufficient for fitness training.

[@adamryba1557]

You hit on a point I never considered. Why do we accept Garmin not supporting devices 1+ yr old with software updates. Apple WatchOS 11 goes from Ultra 2 all the way back to the watch 6.

[@That_ole_Dodge]

Thank you for the informative update on the Garmin. Seems like the cost isn’t worth the investment at this point.

[@curtr5162]

Helpful video I have an Apple Ultra Watch. I was on the fence on whether or not I should get a garmin. Thanks for the review. You have answered my question!

[@GreatestCornholio]

You can increase the battery life of Apple Watches quite significantly by turning off some settings. Always on display being the main one. My Apple Watch Series 6 died at about 6 hours when recording hikes, but with always on turned off I managed to get about 9 hours.

[@jimerinrose6235]

Nice video. I was noticing you have two spots on your right arm. Pinkish color with white outline. I had identical spots turned out to be Basel cell skin cancer. Worth having them checked out.

[@koshi8553]

I feel the same way about Garmin. I would love to see more videos comparing the Ultra 2 to the Fenix ​​8. I currently have a Fenix ​​8, I upgraded from a 7, but I am starting to think more and more about upgrading to the Ultra 2.

[@dariuszwojcik1601]

i just did. I couldn't be bothered to wait ages for basics like turn by turn navigation to work. Ultra 2 is so snappy that makes fenix 8 look like it was made 10 years ago. I'm very disappointed with Garmin. Yes battery is much better but so what if the watch is unusable for the purpose it was made.

[@nemosandman]

I got a F8 51mm and I'm a Beta tester. I had a bad feeling looking at Garmin's representatives at the F8 video presentation... I think Garmin has caught an industrial disease and we all feel the symptoms of it. Luckily some passionate engineers are still working there but their management seems not be the sharpest tools in the toolbox... This ship sails with a greedy captain lately. My two cents. BTW I like your video and your POV is always very instructive. I feel like you actually and now look with regret to AWU2 but I'm stuck with the F8 which was not a cheap decision and I'm looking forward for more update soon. (The last Beta 12.09 has been a step back on AOL watchface. So I figure they are even many issues between the different crews delivering Betas...) Anyway, thank you for your great videos !

[@Hikingguy]

I appreciate the comment and kind words, thank you. That's the feeling I get as an end user with occasional interactions with Garmin. The engineers, support folks, etc. are always solid and passionate. And I know they can do a first pass QA pass better because they do avionics and marine. Greedy captain makes sense.

[@MrTobyNorris]

Thanks for the info. I was interested in getting a garmin smart watch. I think you saved me a lot of wasted money and frustration. As a retired senior software developer myself, I have no patience or tolerance for incompetent and negligent software developers and managers that deliberately release buggy software and hope their customers will do the testing. Even worse they don't mind ripping off their customers by releasing defective products for short term monetary gain. For now I will stick with my smart android phone and the many excellent hiking apps that are reliable and well tested and debugged for the android ecosystem.

[@JasonRaneses]

Too many models, a fragmented code base, and resting on their laurels. It is good to see Garmin moving to unify the OS running on newer watches, but they frankly waited too long to prioritize this and it’s showing. If you’re familiar with the debacle at Sonos of late, the downtick in brand reputation is palpable. I seriously hope they get it together.

[@Vincent13997]

I thought the same and bought the Ultra 2 for hiking and workouts after owning the Fenix 6X Sapphire for 4 years. I am completely invested in the Apple eco system. I have the Ultra 2, an M1 MacBook Air, 15” MacBook Pro, IPad, a couple of iPods, AirPods Pro, and a Mac Pro. I tried, I really tried, but the Fenix is a better sports watch. I’m going skip the Fenix 8 and get a Tactix 7.

[@russellpauley2775]

I have both AWU and Tactix 7 amoled both are great watches the AWU for general use and day hikes The Tactix 7 is in my opinion a better sport watch for marathon, running, cycling, and multiple day hikes… though both blow through battery if your using gps and maps a lot If you buy a Tactix 7 make sure you buy from a site or REI where they let you test watch and return it with no hassle Garmin has made many firmware updates lately some good some not so good Also takes notes on how you set it up every update Garmin makes changes the glances back to there default and watch out for the kill switch setting or you get to setup your watch again😂

[@v5745]

Same with me, I have AWU2 and Tactix 7 Amoled. Tried to switch to AWU2, hiking and biking, but still Garmin is unmatched in terms of proper tool for the job; you can have any map you wish, with layers or even raster maps (these work slow, but for hiking quite ok), no problem in severe conditions, works with buttons only etc. I have never had any problems with Tactix 7 Amoled

[@JakeMarcin]

I’m in exactly the same headspace… I have been so close to pulling a trigger on an AWU2 but haven’t yet. I have decided that I’ll run my Fenix 7 until the AWU 3 comes out because I feel like Apple is quite close to closing the gap with Garmin. But two hardware features keep me firmly with Garmin, the torch is just so handy but also as a canyoner and water sports regular, the buttons are almost a must… I think Apple will eventually include a torch but the buttons will be the kicker… Thanks for making this video!

[@Hikingguy]

Yea that's smart if you have a F7, which is still very good. Looking forward to the AWU3 given it'll be 2 years between updates.

[@ryank2434]

@@JakeMarcin I had both and the AWU battery life drives me nuts

[@JakeMarcin]

@ yeah I’m hoping the 3 will fix it. Give me 5 days and we’ll talk Apple

[@rjs11189]

I also jumped ship after having a Garmin on my wrist since 2017. I love my AWU2 a lot more than I thought I would. The battery life is actually pretty great when you consider just how much more capable it is as a smartwatch over the Fenix

[@v5745]

There's nothing on Apple Watch with its smartwatch functions you can't do better, quicker than with iPhone

[@erichhall5078]

Very good honest review. I have a Venue3 watch. shortly before the new Fenix 8 came out, one of the Garmin updates for my Venue 3 destroyed the sleeptracking feature. I suspect they think I should by their new watch. However I am so disgusted with them that Over time I will replace all my Garmin instruments with something else.

[@JungleJim001]

Couldn’t agree more with your comments! I have been a long time user of Garmin outdoor handhelds and cycling computers, but the amount of bugs and idiosyncrasies just keep getting worse and worse. I have bug reports open with Garmin for fully reproducible bugs (like the wrong course being loaded on the GPSMAP 67) that have been open for half a year or more without any progress whatsoever. Issues with map rendering (thick borders on roads) have taken Garmin more than 5 months to fix and it still not fixed on all devices. The support reps are very nice and cooperative but they can only pass findings to the engineers and there it is lost in a black hole. And also fully agree on the lack of critical reviewing of the big KZbin names (you all know who they are). The reviews are nothing really more than mentioning all the features that should be there without actually testing whether they work.

[@racingspoon]

Just moved back to Apple from Garmin. Been using the Instinct 2X for about 18 months but just got the new black Ultra 2. My main reason for changing was the cellular connectivity and also the Apple Music implementation. Apple Pay on the watch is awesome as well. I get the metrics are far better with Garmin but to be honest Apple has enough for me…it is unbelievable you can’t actually name your individual workouts though. The battery life is obvs an issue but sleep tracking not a biggie so it’s no problem for me to put it on the charger every other day. It’s incredible how quick the Ultra charges as well. I will miss the torch/light from my instinct as the one on the Ultra is far inferior.

[@peacekeeperz81]

Absolutely agree with you. I bought the Fenix 6 after watching one of your videos and my wife had the Venue 2. Loved those watches and they were amazing but, we have had the same experience. Failure to sync across the board, battery issues all of a sudden, and just in general I feel that the reliability has gone also. We actually decided to go Apple now and I got the Ultra 2 since the battery life has got resendable and she got a series 10. I still do wish the Ultra 2 could go one more day. Got to get use to charging them a lot more. I will not be going back to Garmin.

[@apjapjapj3535]

Looking forward to your updated AWU2 review! 👍

[@CoreyMarlin]

I love the idea of replacing my F8 with an Apple Watch but it’s just not there yet. No button only navigation, battery life, and no dynamic real time routing with offline maps kill it for me. But I truly believe they will catch up.

[@PozaRica17]

Thanks! Chris, you are the go to reviewer and expert that we all come to for an honest and informed opinion! I’m considering buying an Apple Watch Ultra 2 used and would appreciate your feedback on purchasing with or without cellular. I do mountain bike, hike and backpack in the back country.

[@Hikingguy]

!!!!!!!!!!!!! HUGE HUGE THANK YOU!!!!!! Oh man, can't tell you enouch how much I appreciate it. So if you are using a power meter with the mountain bike and looking at data like heart rate, etc. for training, you're probably better off with a cycling computer there. But if you just want to track your rides and look down at your wrist for the distance, etc. an AWU2 works great. And for hiking / backpacking, I use the Footpath app and love it. Never had a problem. If it's wet out, put the water lock on to avoid accidental screen swipes. This video I just posted may be helpful: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5qmenh5m7-if9U

[@tcosync]

Still using my trusty Fenix 5X, works fine, battery life has deteriorated, but still manages to support me well. Was looking to upgrade to the Enduro or latest Fenix recently...I guess I'll hold off until things stabilize.

[@HugoParedes]

I don’t care for the smartwatch side of it, so my priorities are different. Battery life, workouts, training plans, offline routing (in the same app and not having to jump between apps), among other things are the reason why AW don’t work for me.

[@andregoncalves1648]

Well, I have a Garmin Enduro 3 and I absolutely love this watch. So far I've had zero crashes or restarts and I've done dozens of activities. I will never be able to wear a watch that requires charging every day, ever. I have 30 days or more of battery life in the enduro, super comfortable and in my opinion one of the most beautiful too. And having to pay for apps to get what I have on my enduro for free? Ridiculous.

[@Hikingguy]

Happy that it's working for you. Wish I had the same experience with my F8.

[@macmcmillen6282]

Thanks for giving an honest assessment of Garmin and your thoughts on the Apple Ultra 2. I'm thinking of buying myself a Christmas present this year and have been considering the Ultra 2. Looking forward to more of your reviews.

[@miguelteixeira1979]

I decided buy Coros because, although Garmin has been the biggest name in the industry, they seem to be more agile and opt on the side of simplicity and overall good function. I find Garmin has been playing the feature game for quite a while and now has a mess of a system, That hinders the capacity to be nimble. This mess is probably because someone internally decided that they must be quicker and they simple cannot cope. Garmin now mainly inreach and will depend on android businesses.

[@INSOLESandLACES]

Just got my first ever fitness watch and have gone with the Suunto Race S, very pleased with it.

[@Mdogbrown]

Don’t ever change. I love this channel and really appreciate your honesty. I too have grown frustrated with Garmin as of late. I have both AWU and Garmin Fenix 7 pro (had Epix before that). With Footpath and the latest OS update, I find myself slowly coming back to Apple. Yeah, I really wish the battery life was better, but it’s good enough for a long days hike. If I’m backpacking, I’ll just charge it before bed. No big deal.

[@Hikingguy]

I appreciate that, thank you

[@crandallcrute3918]

I just bought and tested the 965 - I love the look over my AWU - but I'm going back to the Apple Watch. My main concerns are the lack of cellular connectivity, and the ability for the watch to directly call emergency services just in case I get into an accident and I'm not able to respond. We are up here in Canada and we can't use Garmin pay and that's another thing that the AWU provides - the ability to tap. Lastly, you are correct, workoutdoors, and footpath are awesome and although I prefer to look at maps on the Garmin, I'm hoping that the third version of the AWU will have some sort of an upgrade or perhaps a watch face that allows it to look more like a Garmin. Incidentally, if anybody knows of any way to get a Garmin like watch face on the AWU, I'd love to hear about it. Thanks so much for your channel and your recommendations-they are awesome!

[@MarkDaniel_]

Have to say as an avid hiker who switched from Apple Watch to Garmin for the last 6+ months, I’m VERY disappointed with the Garmin. Everyone raved that Garmin was superior for the outdoors, but overall it’s far below my expectations. Honestly the ONLY thing I like better is physical buttons and the flashlight. I’ll likely be moving back to an Ultra 2 soon.

[@v5745]

Try check anything on AWU using touch in pouring rain, with wet fingered or gloves or in winter with thick gloves

[@racingspoon]

@@v5745yep. The torch on the Fenix/Instinct is far better implemented. It does help if you map the orange action button on the Ultra to the torch though.

[@qwer55555555]

@@v5745 wet fingers - no problem. Worst case is in gloves, where AWU is a "no, no". Otherwise it's ok from my experience

[@___Tom]

I head exactly the same experiences since my Epix 1 and Edge705. Often their software updates makes the device much worse than it has been. Now I wear a Fenix6 (no more development here) and will buy an Edge 1040 in spring. Hope the "development" of that unit is closed until then. I think, for some time, their development was better for some years, but regularly I think they fire the whole software development team and start with a new team. Quality assurance was always bad at Garmin. I wonder how this Company could get so big and never mastered that topic.

[@richarddufresne2683]

Another fantastic video! 🙂 I completely get where you're coming from-it's important to stay open-minded and think critically. I’ve been using the Fenix 6X Pro Solar for the past four years, along with a Garmin Edge 530, a Garmin GPSMAP 66i, and a few other devices. 🙂 For now, I’m holding off on upgrading since the Fenix 8 feels a bit too expensive. I never gave much thought to getting an Apple Watch before, mainly because its battery life couldn't compare to Garmin’s. But it’s clear they’re making progress. That said, I’ve been an Apple customer for the last 25 years. Like you, I enjoy hiking, cycling, running, and walking on weekends. Do I really need 36 hours or 36 days of battery life? Probably not-my longest activity has only been 18 hours. I’ll continue following your journey as you explore new watch options. Can’t wait to see what you end up choosing!

[@Hikingguy]

Appreciate that, big thank you

[@ruddyman]

Well it seems my Enduro 3 is faring better than the Fenix, but I don't use turn by turn on trail (yet). This is my first Garmin, and I love the buttons and the battery that lasts for week long hikes. Apple Watch Ultra was great, but after failing me during a marathon in the rain, I won't be back until they provide a better experience without having to interact with a (wet) touchscreen. For day hikes, the Apple Watch is great. For multi-day backpacking trips, prepare to play the "how much can I turn OFF on this watch so that I don't deplete a battery bank that I need to keep an iPhone going" game. I get the frustration, but the AW Ultra is stagnant in key areas.

[@foetor]

@@ruddyman And you don‘t charge your phone when being out for multi day trips? For me I have to charge my phone anyway, so why not charging my watch for some minutes?

[@ruddyman]

⁠@@foetorI did that for a while. You can certainly make it work. I had to charge mine every day when using maps and tracking workouts, because even in power saver mode (screen off except for gesture) it used around 50% or more. But yes, that is an option. You can even bring an extra battery bank for longer trips. I’m down to only one device that needs charging every few days and I’m loving it.

[@rafski123]

What about some of the Casio watches? I'm thinking, do I need all these metrics? or just want a simple GPS watch that has time and distance...

[@RXP91]

The calculation times now on the Forerunner 955 for navigating on device have gone up so much it's really impacted the usability in the field for me. When I first purchased the watch there were bugs around that & it always failed to calculate. Then they fixed it and it was pretty quick (60 seconds or less even for long routes) now it's taking many minutes. Not to mention their metrics have little scientific basis & I simply don't trust the data they are reading. Their wrist based HR sensor is like a random number generator & they overwhelm you with metrics. I've gone the AW Ultra 2 route, more reliable metrics, industry leading sleep tracking. I do miss being able to navigate on device - but my Forerunner 955 takes too long for it to be of use anyway - so I'm reliant on my phone to send gpx files

[@user-ul5yu5hk9k]

I started using footpath after one of your reviews and have been very satisfied with it. The offline maps are excellent

[@tomaszjozwin]

Is there a way to use footpath truly offline or you can download only routes that you created online?

[@alanmacmillan6957]

I'm going to be a bit brutal.I think Garmin had cornered the GPS market from the noughties.....but their days may be numbered. The mobile industry moves far , far faster. The software updates are more frequent and for devices that are refreshed frequently too. Most mobile devices like the phones and apple watches have far more powerful cpu than the Garmin devices (which are far too expensive IMHO). With SOS now on the iPhone 14 upwards we are on the cusp of Garmin being superseded in a number of areas. I found out other day the Etrex 32x has a 16mhz processor; to charge £225 for that is a joke that ain't funny, for something dated and glitchy a lot of the time.

[@7443jan]

My fenix 3 îs still working. And I can still use it to hike a gps track. Turn by turn is slow. Also on my F5.

[@kaffenoizen]

Amazfit T-rex 3 ftw, have had mine for a week now, no complains so far =) Changed from an instinct 1 that for the last months have started to loose bluetooth connection (some times twice a day) and doesnt auto connect back, so I have to re-pair it every time.

[@PJo336]

I actually used the garmin watch primarily to track golf and skiing. Both apps haven’t improved in any way in years, and in the case of golf, distance and weather are insanely off lately. I switched to the ultra as well. The biggest annoyance is making sure I have 80+% battery before any activity. And i will forever die on the hill it looks incredibly dorky Plus no flashlight. Otherwise, it’s doing just fine

[@bethannturner4023]

My 5s just took a nosedive this week. The battery was draining in less than 24 hours. Last week, I was still getting five or six days between charges, including GPS workouts. After shutting down all of the features and doing a hard reset, I rebooted and began to activate features one at a time. The watch crashed and won’t restart. Very disappointed. I have really enjoyed that watch and used a bunch of advanced features over the years. I don’t want to pay all my money for a new device that doesn’t even work as promised. The forums are full of folks experiencing these same issues with the whole smartwatch product line. I don’t want to, but I’m looking for other options. I’ve lost faith in Garmin.

[@Hikingguy]

Yea, same, I'm trying some other watches now and will have some reviews soon. Seems like Garmin is imploding now and it's disappointing. I used my Fenix / Epix watches for years.

[@vpnconsult]

Garmins are the best tools for the job. Love the quality, batterytime, extensive functionality.

[@lesliedykstra4014]

Coros are the best.

[@Hikingguy]

I used and loved Garmin for years but lately I can't count on some of the models. Within 2 days of light use on two models: kzbin.info/www/bejne/roWbmJyDp9Njftk - kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmrbq31_a9Nqq68

[@JasonRaneses]

For the OP, Garmin has made serious missteps with their newest firmware. The instability is also starting to trickle down to older models as Garmin attempts to unify their legacy codebases. They’ll eventually get it figured out. The question is when and how much patience people will have.

[@joe19782005]

I went from Garmin 7 to the ultra 1. I was pissed about the price of the new Garmin 8. No way I pay that price. So did the ultra 1. Cheaper and no problems so far

[@YouTubedarek]

I have a Fenix 7 SS. I’ve loved it until the F8 software came out. I can get past the battery drain as mistakes happen and it was resolved fairly quickly. But it’s hard to ignore all the issues they’ve had. Then this weekend I did a 26k trail race, and my watch crashed when saving the activity (I was really wanting to go back and analyze parts of the race but oh well). Normally I’d think that sucks but it’s tech and things happen. With the issues Garmin has had, I started to wonder if this is another issue of theirs; credibility has definitely taken a hit. I still like my watch and until recently my next watch was 100% going to be a Garmin, possibly the Enduro 3. Now I’m not so sure and would seriously consider a Coros (I’m an Apple fanboy but don’t like the daily charging and lack of buttons).

[@BrettReid-d9b]

Absolutely agree Chris, the Garmin outdoor GPSs products and quality is on the decline for a few years now.

[@fengcarlos]

Same problem I am just tired of this! I put mine on sale today!

[@Peakabike]

8:31 - looking forward to your TR3 review, I tried it...too many "small problems/limitations" that build up to make it worthwhile IMHO, Garmin's got a 20 year lead, it's hard to catch up. Having said that I "downgraded" to a Venu 2 from an Epix 2 as it works better for my running needs. And for hikes I use Locus and/or an Oregon.

[@ZeRo-22-]

Great update review! The price hikes of Garmin are definitely concerning. The foreshadowing of MicroLED, which will likely bump the price up higher, is a little scary.

[@Hikingguy]

Yea will be interesting to see what the battery life of the AWU3 will be if it gets MicroLED.

[@josevelez7539]

I own several Garmin devices (840 Edge Solar, 965 watch, Inreach mini, Garmin chronograph). What I don’t see is Garmin connecting with customers in order to take their products to the next level. Some of the features and functionality I question. I know they want to be secretive to stay in the market, but do they actually listen to customers? The majority of these products have wireless interfaces… Why not improve them more often with software updates?

[@hussla28]

Great video and feedback as i have been on the fence I’m now solid on choosing the ultra instead

[@PozaRica17]

Chris, I am considering buying an Apple Watch series 10 and not the ultra just to save $400. Do you have any advice on if there are things the ultra will do for hiking that the series 10 will not do? Thanks as always, for your honest reviews, very much appreciated!

[@Hikingguy]

Thank you and for the 10, it's.a great watch and you can use it for hiking, but the battery life is much shorter than the Ultra. So if you do long hikes, it might not last. It also lacks the action button, but that's a "nice to have" - and FYI I don't have a AW10 (last regular I had was AW8).

[@hussla28]

Buy an ultra 2 used, selling cheap these days

[@LagunaRider1961]

I have the Fenix 6X and have not any issues on hikes however I use the 1040 solar cycling computer and it restarts all the time in the middle of a ride or just freezes which drives me crazy.

[@evanshaw17]

You are the best HG. Agreed. My experience exactly. Now Apple ultra and footpath. TY

[@Hikingguy]

Thank you appreciate it!

[@-G-Mac-]

Ugh! I am going into federal (public) forested land for 2 weeks soon and I rely primarily on my GPSMap67i. Glad I have paper maps and know how to use my compass.

[@Hikingguy]

I've had good luck with my 67i so far, no problems like the watch. There was just that course / route issue I saw on the new 8.80 firmware.

[@bmwohl]

Cris, does the Apple Watch Ultra 2 work without an iPhone (for us Android users). I'm pretty happy with my Epix Gen 2 plus Galaxy S24 Ultra plus Gaia GPS plus GPSMAP66i. If I'm going alone (and I'm eldeerly) I carry a backup battery for the GPSMAP66i or I limit its use to keep inReach always available.

[@Hikingguy]

Don't get an Apple Watch if you have Android, stick with the setup you described. My Epix is still great and what I prefer to the Fenix 8. What you have is a very solid setup.

[@FrenchAlexHunter]

totally agree with this video, especially for maps that are so much snappier on Apple Watch. Just 2 or 3 days more battery life in Apple Watch Ultra and the case for Garmin Fenix doesn’t hold anymore, both in terms of features and price. Who would have thought that Apple would be competitive on price 😅

[@richardsweeney6317]

It doesn’t last 3 days. Anyone saying this is talking nonsense. Yes turn off everything and it may last longer but this completely defeats the purpose.

[@FrenchAlexHunter]

@@richardsweeney6317 of course it doesn’t, but the day it does, I’ll probably be enough between two charges for many users that value a speedy map loading and well maintained software

[@Slimothy]

*Garmin Fenix 6S Pro Solar was the first and last Garmin smartwatch that I buy. It still runs great, which I like.* But the new devices out from Garmin are WAY overpriced and just don't look good at all. So many issues with them from what I've heard. Apple Watch Ultra 2 is also in my rotation and is essentially bug-free at this point, and much cheaper than the new Garmins which is insane to think about. There is no reason 99% of people should buy a 1,000 dollar Garmin over an Apple Watch Ultra 2.

[@TheBenny1683]

I've learned years ago to turn off automatic firmware updates. My fenix 7 is probably at whatever firmware it was when i first got it. Most times, when i did update them, my garmin watches got the batter drain bug.

[@johnflaherty9595]

I have been considering purchasing a hike-use GPS. I originally considered the Montana 750i or 700i, mostly for larger screen, so (theoretically) easier to read topography. In your video though, you commented how the touch-screen could be awkward in poorer weather. ...and works about like the 66i otherwise. Considering that and the 67i video, I had more or less decided on the 67i. You had also mentioned how you'd be using the Fenix due to smaller device and easier to use. Now, it seems you've moved to a different brand altogether due to troubles with Garmin's direction. Have you had any difficulties with the 67i? Especially with topographic maps?

[@Hikingguy]

The 67i has been solid and stable for me, and it's what I use in bad weather. Epix Pro was great until latest firmware, now after latest firmware I'm having some issues. kzbin.info/www/bejne/roWbmJyDp9Njftk

[@v5745]

Montana 700 no problem with rain. It has a special setting for rain, although I did not used it (not necessary, always worked fine). I used it mainly with raster maps, which have much more details

[@twiblr]

Thanks for this. I was considering a Garmin, but will stick with Apple after seeing this video.

[@KeyboardSavant]

I'm usually not an advocate for corporate buyouts, but I'd imagine that the intellectual properties and patents that Garmin has would be better suited in Apple's ecosystem. Creating a product that blends the Fenix 8 and Ultra 2 would probably amount to a truly exceptional experience!

[@austinslater4773]

I have both and love both. I’m selling the Garmin bc the ultra fits me better for what I do. If I was richer I’d keep both lol

[@stevehallesy]

I have switched to apple too i use series 9 with polar h10 heart rate monitor, i would love a start stop button apple but the smart phone features make it worth it, still use the fenix 6 for open water swimming

[@IustinPop]

… and this is why I am still rocking te F7.

[@robinsimonoceanskies9646]

It's crazy because I've had the NEW Garmin Enduro 3 since mid September and I've had no issue whatsoever... I guess the issue is in the firmware running of the watch. I think Garmin is well aware of the situation. It's weird an Epix Pro 2 runs better than a Fenix 8... (By the way, does anyone know if Garmin E encounters the same issues?) I'm surprised you haven't consider Suunto. I've been wearing the Suunto Vertical for more than a year now and it's impressive how long the battery 🔋 of this is. Honestly, I didn't expect Suunto to be so impressive with their user experience. (Only flaw: creating routes on the app and leading me into paths not taken since WWI... I had to fight with bushes) But outside of that, it's so reliable and EASY to use. So I have my Suunto Vertical on the left wrist and my Garmin Enduro 3 on the right wrist. I feel like an outdoor king 👑🌲 - (Been testing them in Bern 🇨🇭 this WE) Good luck with your new devices! Big up from a Belgian dude in Zwitserland!

[@Hikingguy]

Thank you and good to hear about the Enduro 3. I know it also suffered from the "no turn alerts" bug but not familiar with others. Good place for anyone else to check if you having problems is here: forums.garmin.com/outdoor-recreation/outdoor-recreation/f/enduro-3

[@jakeva9802]

I was going looking to buy but all these bugs made me pause. I’ve decided to wait another year or so instead. Coros, polar, suunto are making good watches

[@tomaski]

I needed a new watch to replace my Apple Watch 6 and I bought a fenix 8 for the battery life and durability. I tried to give it an honest try but it was way too buggy and I just couldn’t deal with it at the price. I’m on an Ultra 2 now and it just works so much better and was half the price.

[@Hikingguy]

Yea same experience here - I had the AWU2 in the snow and harsh conditions this week, worked with gloves, no issues, no problems.

[@vemanavijaygopal8037]

I agree with everything you said about Garmin and they need to act fast if they intend to be the market leader. However, a lot of apple watch features that you mentioned (footpath, workoutdoors, athlytic) are all paid apps and I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison. Also, Apple has 2 workout apps (which is not a great experience) and now a different maps app for routes that frankly sucks if you intend to use it for local trails that are not state or national parks/forests. Vitals turned out to be okay I guess. Especially if you have an SE2 like me without spo2 or skin temp. Also, they don't have a web portal or a macos app. The battery life is good but it's not always about battery life when using gps. I can not wear by 965 for a full week and still go on a run if I happen to wake up early, and suddenly have some extra time. I think there are some fundamental differences between both and I was always happy choosing one over the other. I fully understand the shortcomings of Garmin. But, when they are making too many mistakes and the other option is still not what you want, then it does hurt.

[@twloughlin]

Thanks Chris!

[@vgriga9682]

I have not noticed any bugs on my Fenix 7 but, I agree, the updates for the tool that your life may depend on should be tested better. As for the subscription apps, how much do you have to pay per year to replicate the Garmin features for training, health tracking and navigation?

[@Hikingguy]

Yea my Epix Pro has been stable too (thankful for that). I think it breaks down like this in USD: Workoutdoors $8 one time Footpath $23.50 a year Athlytic $30 year

[@vgriga9682]

@@Hikingguy , thank you for your response and all the work you are doing! This is reasonable. I thought the apps cost as much as Strava, which I can’t justify for my cycling having all I need and more on Garmin watch, bike computer and in the Connect app. The subscription costs add up very quickly.

[@Hikingguy]

@@vgriga9682 Yea agree, it can get costly, especially when you do the "free trial to forgetting until I get billed" move which happens occasionally

[@DiegoJamaica]

Fenix 7 still strong. overall the best watch they made. Im still with my fenix 6 sapphire, in more 1 or 2 years, Ill upgrade to fenix 7. I never bought the latest watch (expensive and beta bug software). Give more 1 year or 2 and the fenix 8 will be great, but now, I think fenix 7 is the better choice wihtout doubt.

[@exposureseries3747]

I just bought an Enduro 2 on sale and have been loving it. I got it for $725 zero issues. But I first got an Apple Watch Ultra 2 almost a year ago and love it too. What to do? I wear both, I can't live without all the smart features of the AWU2 cause I am completely in the apple ecosystem. But what was missing was all the fitness features that Garmin has. You get some weird looks wearing $2000 dollars of watches one on each wrist, LOL! It works for me and don't see myself stopping anytime soon. Apple really needs to up their battery life it is a problem its pathetic compared to any Garmin.

[@Hikingguy]

Ha yea I've done the same thing many times. I think ultimately I'll wear the AWU daily and when I have an exceptionally challenging hike or conditions, I'll keep a Garmin and use it. It's a luxury that most folks probably wouldn't go for though.

[@exposureseries3747]

@@Hikingguy Very true, I had to save up for almost a year to be able to purchase the Enduro 2, and it would have been longer if it hadn't gone on sale. It would be great to see Garmin upgrade there CPU for a bit faster refresh rate on their maps, even if there was a slight decrease to battery performance.

[@daxmotis27]

Garmin has served me well. Have a fenix 6 pro sapphire. I like that it’s just a sports watch for me. Trying to move away from the connected life and will be selling my iPhone so an Apple Watch just doesn’t make sense anymore. Probably just wear my fenix until it dies and see if I can pay for a refurbed unit. Garmin has gotten very expensive and the software has started to lose its appeal.

[@sherrambles]

I'm curious how the Samsung and Coros watches stack up againast Apple/Garmin.

[@bindraussen]

Have a look at the G-Shock Rangeman! Syncing with Strava.