Pleasures you don't have to say "NO" to

Theragatha 19.1 -Talaputta:
suttacentral.net/thag19.1
"Oh, when will I stay in a mountain cave,
alone, with no companion,
discerning all states of existence as impermanent?
This hope of mine, when will it be?....
....For many years you begged me,
“Enough of living in a house for you!”
Why do you not urge me on, mind,
now that I’ve gone forth as an ascetic?
...Mind, when you urge me to the impermanent and unstable,
you’re acting like someone who plants trees,
then, when they’re about to fruit,
wishes to cut down the very same trees.
Incorporeal mind, far-traveler, lone-wanderer:
I won’t do your bidding any more.
Sensual pleasures are suffering, painful, and very dangerous;
I’ll wander with my mind focused only on Nibbana...
...The men and women who live under your will and command,
whatever pleasure they experience,
they are ignorant and fall under Māra’s control;
loving life, they’re your disciples, mind."
An.3.68 - “...The Blessed One said, “Monks, if you are asked by wanderers of other sects, ‘Friends, there are these three qualities. Which three? Passion, aversion, and delusion. These are the three qualities. Now what is the difference, what the distinction, what the distinguishing factor among these three qualities?’-when thus asked, you should answer those wanderers of other sects in this way, ‘Friends, passion carries little blame and is slow to fade. Aversion carries great blame and is quick to fade. Delusion carries great blame and is slow to fade…”
SN 9.10 Sajjhāya Sutta: Reciting
"On one occasion a certain bhikkhu was dwelling among the Kosalans in a certain woodland thicket. Now on that occasion that bhikkhu had been excessively engrossed in recitation, but on a later occasion he passed the time abiding in non-activity (indifferent, withdrawn, at ease) and keeping silent. Then the devata that inhabited that woodland thicket, no longer hearing that bhikkhu recite the Dhamma,approached him and addressed him in verse:
"Bhikkhu, why don't you recite Dhamma-stanzas, Living in communion with other bhikkhus?
Hearing the Dhamma, one gains confidence; In this very life [the reciter] gains praise."
The bhikkhu:
"In the past I was fond of Dhamma-stanzas So long as I had not achieved dispassion.
But from the time I achieved dispassion [I dwell in what] the good men call
'The laying down by final knowledge of whatever is seen, heard, or sensed."'
SN 21.4:
“...then the Blessed One addressed a certain bhikkhu thus: "Come, bhikkhu, tell that bhikkhu in my name that the Teacher calls him."...
The Blessed One then said to him: "Is it true, bhikkhu, that after returning from the alms round you enter your dwelling after the meal and pass the time abiding in non-activity and keeping silent, and you do not render service to the bhikkhus at the time of making robes?"
"I am doing my own duty, venerable sir. "
Then the Blessed One, having known with his own mind the reflection in that bhikkhu's mind, addressed the bhikkhus thus:
"Bhikkhus, do not find fault with this bhikkhu. This bhikkhu is one who gains at will, without trouble or difficulty, the four jhanas that constitute the higher mind and provide a pleasant dwelling in this very life. And he is one who, by realizing it for himself with direct knowledge, in this very life enters and dwells in that unsurpassed goal of the holy life for the sake of which clansmen rightly go forth from the household life into homelessness."
Sn 35.240 - Simile of the Tortoise:
“Once upon a time, mendicants, a tortoise was grazing along the bank of a river in the afternoon. At the same time, a jackal was also hunting along the river bank. The tortoise saw the jackal off in the distance hunting, so it drew its limbs and neck inside its shell, and passed the time in non-activity and silence.
But the jackal also saw the tortoise off in the distance grazing. So it went up to the tortoise and waiting nearby, thinking, ‘When that tortoise sticks one or other of its limbs or neck out from its shell, I’ll grab it right there, rip it out, and eat it!’
But when that tortoise didn’t stick one or other of its limbs or neck out from its shell, the jackal left disappointed, since it couldn’t find a vulnerability.
In the same way, Māra the Wicked is always waiting nearby, thinking: ‘Hopefully I can find a vulnerability in the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, or mind.’ That’s why you should live with sense doors guarded..."
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www.hillsidehermitage.org/tea...

[@Hermit_mouse]

Contentment is the greatest wealth

[@anthonychan3336]

When your Dhamma is so pure even the dogs want to listen.

[@theinngu5560]

Dogs were naughty monks in the past 😉

[@hermitagemeditation8304]

Some while ago I spent ten days in solitary non-activity quite similar to what is described here, just observing the mind and eating once a day, nothing else at all. I remember at one point after a few days, when the mind had been quite calm for a while, but then the pressure of boredom became the hardest thing to handle. The only subject the mind brought again and again and again was 'the clock must be broken, there's no way it can be right.' (all the more laughable because it wasn't like I had any interesting activities lined up in the near future, all that awaited was 'more doing nothing.') I remember thinking how incredible is this complete machine of suffering - you are warm, dry, in a calm environment, mind is not in misery or elation - you have no problem in the world, yet still BECAUSE there's nothing to suffer from and no need to do anything, you make yourself suffer with the craving of entertainment and activity. At one point the mind was too tense and I felt like what I was doing was becoming almost futile, so I decided to just fold some clothes while remaining mindful. That little task, which I would never normally have particularly enjoyed, was an truly felt as an incredible joy and delight. I wondered then afterwards if I had acted wrongly: as I essentially gave in to the pressure of the boredom even though I was not distracted or unmindful while doing this small activity. Which is all kind of looking at a dead fish now instead of catching the fresh one but this subject made me think of it.

[@TheDhammaHub]

As the Buddha put it, the world-transcending pleasures are wholesome

[@ToKiniAndy]

Thank you. Side note: That doggy throne... 😂

[@AnomalyFour]

never thought of delusion and meditation like that. this is brilliant and makes a world of sense

[@idpaydolr]

Thank you Bhante for this talk and the previous talk on the gradual training. I’m listening on Telegram now but wanted to comment. Interesting how these talks zero in on exactly what I need to hear at this point in my efforts. Thanks again!!

[@alecogden12345]

Bhante, great video🙏

[@tharuneet]

🙏

[@cataliniosif6035]

Very useful video, Bhante. Tough to hear, since I'm quite dependent on having something to do, and always fill my day to the brim. I feel the pressure that this exerts on me, yet I still try to rationalize giving in to these impulses. Thank you for the examples and suggestions for practice in regard to this aspect (delusion). It was also very useful to hear how this fits in to the bigger picture of engagement with the sensual domain.

[@karrimzz]

@Catalin losif, do you have regular daily meditation period? Sitting for a fixed amount of time is when you build up strength to endure the pressure..

[@cataliniosif6035]

@@karrimzz I do, but other things have been cutting into that time lately. While some of these things have been useful (sutta study and learning Pāli), I need to prioritize this time and protect it with stronger boundaries. Thank you for the reminder! Of course, one needs to be careful that "doing of a meditation technique" doesn't become one's doing while sitting - while this is much more skillful than other activities that people typically engage in, it just sidesteps the problem to a more refined level. As the bhantes said in an earlier video, you also have to be clear about what needs to be endured. Certainly, one can start "toughening up" a bit and then clarifying his or her views along the way. Without the proper view, no amount of becoming tougher will be liberating.

[@cliffmilbrun2803]

18:06 - 18:14 good point

[@DelRealSergio]

Thank you, Bhante. I would like to see those Suttas that mention "abiding in non-activity". Could you point me to some of them?

[@zarahjazmy8360]

Most venerable Bhante...may i ask..What is the difference between ariya and anariya jhana? Is settling into a jhana a pre requisite for stream entry or do some people attain stream entry (sotapatti) without jhanas as vishaka maha upasika? How can we as puttajana do our own self analysis of whether we have attained say sotapatti and a jhana? A clarification would be most appreciated Bhante. Merits to you 🙏

[@Ndo01]

How do we make the distinction between what 'I' want, and what 'the mind' wants?

[@TwoFoot]

There is no "I" or self, that's just a conceptual fabrication. When the mind presents you with suggestions, before you act on them consider if they are wholesome and free of the 3 poisons. Read samma ditthi sutta.

[@camillabartlett9128]

I is from the higher good and the mind is attached to the ego ...also from amarok

[@MikeTooleK9S]

non activity is an activity. leverage the binary flutter

[@kurtwagner6437]

Is it possible to listen to music wholesomely?

[@karrimzz]

@Kurt Wagner, people goes to music because of past pleasure they get from it, or to avoid unpleasant feeling they are experiencing. A better question would be: What is my motivation when I want to start music, and can I let it endure without any action?

[@kurtwagner6437]

@@karrimzz Yes that makes sense. I will contemplate this before I listen to music

[@careles3520]

18.00 bhante equates pleasure of jhana with neutral feeling, does this refer to the higher stages of jhana or even initial stages? some meditators and commentaries had suggested that "piti", being one of the factors in early jhana, is a highly intense state of pleasant feeling no less than orgasm. Bhante agree with this?

[@user-ic4ce8xb5v]

This sound exactly like the chan/zen practice of silent illumination/shikantaza

[@kleyyer]

Completely not like any chan/zen practices. Bhante has hundreds of videos and audio talks, I recommend listening more to start understanding what he is really talking about.

[@blumenthal7528]

Because it comes from the same source, the Buddha.

[@foxnon8668]

Bhante, without a reference point, like awareness of the in out breathe, I am easily pulled by the mind without notice, ie. lost in the thought. It will need sometime before I am aware I should be abide in non activity, but again and again the strong creature mind will pull me without me notice. Any solution for that?

[@HillsideHermitage]

Yes, without something TO DO (i.e. a reference activity) the mind will pull you easier. That's why non-activity/jhana is hard to develop. Don't try to prevent the mind from doing it (it's futile), just prevent yourself from making an activity out of it when you do remember that you were pulled. Remembering is more than enough. However, remembering it, and then trying to do something about it (eg. prevent it) is what will keep fueling your forgetfulness and keep you active. Even if you sit entirely motionless.

[@foxnon8668]

@@HillsideHermitage Bhante, I will keep that in mind. Thanks!

[@houmous942]

Bhante thank you for this talk. When training to sit without doing anything, what should my attitude be toward daydreaming? Once the mind stops suggesting activities to do, I’ll quickly go into this kind of hypnotic daydreaming mode. Is this something I should fight off? Thank you Bhante.

[@HillsideHermitage]

Yes. you should make the effort and don't give in to it. (Daydreaming or getting lost in thought is a problem because it becomes another thing you accept TO DO since there is nothing more interesting going on.) If it's too persisting then get up, pace back and forth or stand, so to help you resist the pull of getting lost in thoughts. Don't try to get rid of the thoughts, just learn to endure them without giving in and losing the sight of yourself being there.

[@houmous942]

@@HillsideHermitage Thank you very much Bhante.

[@hermitagemeditation8304]

If I might add also one small 'tip' in case it's useful: something I have found helpful, if the mind is getting easily lost in thought to the point that one only realises when one has already been lost in thought for a while: walking between two walls, and using the moment of arriving at the wall and needing to turn as a point that to check if one is present or not, and to remind oneself to not get lost in whatever thought might have arisen. (It can be surprising at first how often one finds, when reaching the wall, that the mind has wandered off without knowing! But with more practice it wanders off less and less and becomes happy to stay there, the 'wild dog' becoming trained to stay by one's side the more you pull him back :-) )

[@houmous942]

Many thanks, very useful piece of advice.

[@eyusleer5379]

Bhante, I understand the importance of uprooting verses management of sensuality. However in the effort of sense restraint, I still struggle with lust regarding sleep and sexuality in particular. Celibacy regarding sexual activity with another person is not the problem when sexuality affects me at the level of thoughts and craving for masturbation and whatnot. So can you do a video giving practical tips for the MANAGEMENT of these things? Uprooting is the goal but clearly management is a necessary step for most people, myself included. Thank you for your content and all that you do!

[@eyusleer5379]

- A video giving practical tips for the management of each of the 5 hindrances I mean. I know the Suttas give some tips, but I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on those, and also what helped you in particular early on.

[@HillsideHermitage]

You'd have to tighten your environment around you, so that the mind will not come into the position where it can overwhelm you to break the precepts. That means you'd have to prevent all distractions in forms of entertainment, internet access, company of others, tv, etc. You will not be able to even begin to manage hindrances until your virtue and precepts are unblemished for a long period of time.

[@junsukim2511]

@@HillsideHermitage Bhante, by "tight" environment, you mean an enviroment that does not contain TV/Computer/Radio/Music? Temple like environment?

[@HillsideHermitage]

Not necessarily because temples are often crowded with monks and frequented by lay people. You want to create or at least approximate an environment that is it's free of others, and then free from distractions of television, music, internet.

[@SBCBears]

The pleasure of a fine tobacco? 8-) In the beginning, you look as if you are smoking a cigarette.

[@rihhard1072]

Hah same here, interestingly enough I've heard it's accepted with some monks in Thailand and they regard it as medicine.

[@alecogden12345]

Lol, I thought that too :-)

[@dassavilokantara439]

Rich Trees, Nicotine is just a nootropic botanical pharmacological compound that binds to the same nicotinic acetylcholine receptor as caffeine. Nicotine is simply a slightly more affective agonist than caffeine. Both compounds are endogenous foliage defense mechanisms. Cousin compounds. One still beloved and the other now reviled. Lol.

[@rihhard1072]

@@dassavilokantara439 Totally true but its not really the nicotine that gets you, its the tar and all the other trash thats in there. Also apart from coffee where you can drink a cup or two, you cant drink 30 cups per day like you can chainsmoke cigs

[@savakaumaro7282]

Intoxication is intoxication. It is not needed and is to be abandoned.