History of George Massey Tunnel

[@Jimsathome]

Great Job! I used to battle the Tunnel for years and pity those who do it now. The Bridge should have been built by now but the politicians screwed it up, and it remains the same. Very sad...

[@parkermcmillan8653]

Thanks for the Video , as a kid growing up in Ladner it was nice to see the different ferry fleet early on ,, it will be nice for a while, when this project is done , cus I sat in that traffic for years !

[@GranRey-0]

The strange phenomenon where people have to slow down to

[@dustmybroom288]

lol you are totally right. Also if you are coming from the delta side there is a merge before the tunnel that slows down traffic

[@Weshax]

Yeah the NDP really didnt think this one through. bridge is way better people get scared of going into the tunnel and thats one of the biggest problems

[@angus7278]

Maybe slowing to 50 kms isn’t mentioned because it’s not considered a “strange phenomenon” to slow down from regular highway speed when entering narrow spaces. Being high up on the relatively narrow bridges of Vancouver makes people uncomfortable too.

[@TheGreaterDiscussions]

What are the odds I find this right as I'm writing my own video on the Fraser River Tunnel Project! Great work man!

[@HistoryOfBritishColumbia]

Thank you! I'm looking forward to what you create. I've watched your videos in the past and really enjoy your content.

[@jamesgray6238]

New tunnel capacity might be able to remain adequate, if Transit on the south side of the river were invested in significantly. Currently it's only good at getting into Vancouver.

[@timtwoface]

Excellent video, I know the Massey Tunnel all too well. Can't wait to walk or cycle across it.

[@HistoryOfBritishColumbia]

Thank you!

[@jeffreycrow9326]

Just stumbled upon your channel. Langley born and raised! Love your videos, keep it up!

[@HistoryOfBritishColumbia]

Thank you! Welcome aboard.

[@pandabush9114]

Red Bridge In Kamloops video idea? She just burned down actually 😂 great videos 👍

[@RILFYx]

cool video! love learning about BC history

[@DavidM2002]

I can still remember the toll booths at the Richmond entrance. After they quit taking tolls, the booth remained for several years IIRC. And the toll passes that used to reside on the visor over the driver's seat in my Dad's car which he would have punched at the booth.

[@rocketruss3405]

I spent 10 years commuting through that tunnel daily from about 2000 to 2010, not to mention the previous 20 years making regular trips north of the Fraser river from South Surrey/White Rock. After 2010 I turned down jobs and work that required commuting north of the Fraser river through the tunnel or over the Alex Fraser or the Patullo Bridge. Funny that back in the day New Westminster fought hard to get the crossing there instead of Deas Island. Be careful what you wish for.

[@MaxTSanches]

I remember in the 90's doing a hydrographic survey in that stretch of the Fraser. While the diagrams shows that the tunnel gravel cover is level with the bottom; we found that when crossing over the tunnel we could see a definate bunp in the bottom.

[@MidnightVisions]

The Fraser River pile and dredge has exposed the top of the tunnel

[@rdsieben]

If the NDP didn't win eight years ago, this new crossing would have been built today. Blame the NDP

[@robertcolquhoun1468]

This is one of the biggest piss offs So 3.5 billion for 10 lanes and interchange to 4.5 billion less lanes and 10 more years later to open

[@ThePaas]

I agree. Not a good decision by the government. Unfortunately, I think it is political in nature because both ridings north and south of the tunnel were NDP ridings and they hated the bridge idea

[@anivicuno9473]

Except, according to geotechnic engineers, it damn well would never have been 3.5 bil and 10 years earlier. There's still doubts as to whether or not the sand that makes up delta and richmond could even support a bridge that big.

[@successfullguy]

At least a bridge can be designed for additional lanes and retrofits too extended service life ie Lions Gate

[@timr.2257]

Typical NDP logic.

[@waynemanning3262]

@@anivicuno9473the Alex Fraser bridge is built on a bog on the south side of it and hasn’t been a problem. Engineers recognized that and designed it to “float” on a huge mass of hog fuel(tree bark). The cancelled bridge would be open by now and would have godsend to anyone commuting from the south. I commuted through the tunnel for over forty years and for at least ten years before that my father complained how bad the traffic was then! The only reason the bridge was canceled was because it wasn’t the NDP’s idea. How much was paid out for cancellation penalties by the province?

[@leniszameit]

more info on george massey. he would sit by the ferry landing counting cars on the weekdays after work and weekends getting data for how many cars used the ferry service.he did this till he was able to get the crossing made into the tunnel.i sure remember the tolls .having to stop on the richmond side to pay to go to ladner and back.the grandparents lived in ladner,we had moved from ladner into vancouver.

[@TheGarryburgart]

Hey Kyle, fantastic research. Good Job. Looks like your starting up a new series. Hope it gains popularity. Where did you get all the footage? Take on the crossing at Kelowna.

[@HistoryOfBritishColumbia]

Mostly stock footage and photos, some of my own drone and dashcam footage and a bunch of research. I will add the Kelowna Bennett Bridge to my list of future projects.

[@stevenzheng5459]

11:00 Whenever I see a sign language interpreter, the first thing that comes to my mind is how accurate are his translations? How sophisticated is the vocabulary of sign language? Or is the interpreter approximating the meaning with more basic words?

[@terrybc7004]

You mentioned in your video if a quake was sensored within minutes or seconds an automatic gate would closed the tunnel off to all traffic? Not sure where the gates are located as there are no gates except for the counterflow lanes

[@HistoryOfBritishColumbia]

You are correct. Wikipedia and I are wrong. Initially, the system was designed to incorporate the counterflow’s lane barriers, but that idea was not used due to liability concerns. They use the lights, which would switch from green to red at the entrances to the tunnel, then remain green inside to direct traffic to exit.

[@barontaylor7139]

Is this named for the same person as the hall in Toronto?

[@rs11200]

i remember seeing the construction starting in 2017 signs. When it was canceled by those NDP fools i was livid. I still am not happy to this day, and especially to think we could have been driving on the new bridge for two years at this point.

[@berniepascual4094]

I will never vote for the green and the NDP and brodie. Every day that I am stuck in traffic in that inadequate crossing not to mention getting literally stuck for hours every time there is an accident or a stall, my blood boils thinking about these mindless people who are sitting in their office oblivious to the worsening traffic condition and who seem to be okay with the thought of riding this out for another 6 years.

[@noelgenoway9360]

Agree. the bridge should have been built but the idiots of the NDP wanted a tunnel that will be too small from day 1 when it is built in 2030!

[@leniszameit]

i knew dot massey thru my grandma who knew her. i was in grade 7 ,working on making a scale model of the tunnel. dot let me use the family's orginal blue prints of the tunnel.not the copies in the bc museum in victoria. it w as so cool,my scale model of the tunnel was unique.the parents helped do the math for the scaling.wish we had taken a pic.yes i got an a for it. the night before the offical grand opening of the tunnel.the adults in ladner,bc went thru it. the teens babysat me-i was 2 at the time.

[@KOZMOGRAFX]

Without using the google to verify this first, I think that there were concerns about building that huge new bridge over the thick silt that is mentioned at the 7:12 mark. That would have required massively deep piles to stabilize the bridge towers. 😬

[@vancity87]

The estimates were still lower than the one for the none existing new tunnel, and we're mid way through 2024 now, with no signs of life...

[@sincerewyd2285]

I've been stuck in that long traffic. A bridge is what's needed.. not another tunnel..

[@angus7278]

Why? It’s the number of lanes that counts isn’t it? Not whether it’s a bridge or tunnel.

[@MidnightVisions]

@1:10. There's no ice flow in the Fraser, where did you get that?

[@zigarten]

Super interesting! Thanks for this, although I disagree it's the tunnel is the "massive bottleneck" it's the population that's created the bottleneck!

[@JonathonV]

I’m curious why a tunnel was chosen as opposed to a bridge, not only the first time with the construction, but also for its replacement.

[@desyncer]

The silt at the bottom of the river would need really deep piles/piers to support a bridge and it would have to be relatively tall to let ships pass underneath.

[@zororosario]

4 Lanes are more than enough, that wooden headed planning from back then😮

[@DrFiero]

Having spent countless hours/days/weeks of my life sitting in that stupid lineup.... I don't regret leaving BC one bit!!!

[@DrFiero]

I lived in Rmd/N.Delta from the early 80's, until about a decade ago.

[@krysc2009]

The government didn't cancel the contract for no reason. There had to have been clear indications that something corrupt was afoot with the former BC lib (AKA cons/united) and their contract they came up with. Either way, making the new bridge 10 lanes wouldn't fix anything long term. It very likely would have just caused induced traffic/demand. Meaning that people who forego driving and opt for transit, well now that there's 10 lanes, they can drive because travel time should be less, or those that opt for one of the other bridges instead will flock to this one. And as someone else mentioned, now you're going to encourage further urban sprawl in delta/ladner because there's "less traffic". Next thing you know, 5-10 years after opening the new bridge, they suddenly need to implement counter flow lanes because we're right back to gridlock. Is there a chance of that happening with the extra 2 lanes of a tunnel, yes, but it wont cause as much of a spike. For ref, take Calgary for example, everyone driving on deerfoot daily was dying waiting for stoney trial south leg to be opened because that would alleviate traffic. And it did... for a whole year. 3 years later, they did a study on the traffic demand, and it was right back up to where it was before stoney opened.

[@kanucks9]

Yeah no kidding. A few thousand more people move to tsawassen and white rock, and you're back to where we started.

[@morbital]

Induced demand is a concept that applies to Highway projects, not bottleneck infrastructure like bridges, this attitude that the only traffic using a bottleneck is highway traffic is laughable. Port Mann's collector lanes a great example of doing things right.

[@VictorChavesVVBC]

@@morbital "Induced demand is a concept that applies to Highway projects" This tunnel is a part of a highway, and the new tunnel is adding more lanes so this literally a highway expansion project

[@inlangford]

Build another 4 lane tunnel, with peak counterflow measures we could have 7 lanes going....

[@ml.2770]

My 90 year old father-in-law, who was an engineer, loved to tell the story of how the decision between a bridge or a tunnel was decided on tunnel with the BC Minister of Transportation declaring the tunnel was "a triumph of the imagination over cold hard engineering fact". My father-in-law did not think much of the Minister. The tunnel idea was dumb then and it is dumb now.

[@skullandbones1832]

❤

[@airdad5383]

I used that tunnel in 1982 when I was working in Vancouver. I remember spending over an hour in a traffic jam to get thru. Looks like nothing has changed in the past 40 years. NDP seems to be driving BC to the ground with all their stupid decisions. Why did they cancel the bridge since they are not saving any money and the new tunnel will be outdated before it's finished if they ever get it started.

[@schwags1969]

Was the bridge a better choice for the people who use that corridor?

[@tandemcompound2]

because the NDP do not believe in the privately owned car or workers who commute by car. They think we should all live in the Downtown East Side and commute by shopping cart.

[@Bruvva_Wu]

​@@schwags1969yes it would have been. Also, that section of Hwy 99 could then be used as a dangerous goods route.

[@schwags1969]

@@Bruvva_Wu Could be, however I would debate that a tunnel accident could be worse than a bridge accident. Either way that corridor is getting an upgrade, it will still be a bottle neck though.

[@Bruvva_Wu]

@@schwags1969 I'd still be more concerned with a post crash fire in the tunnel, especially with an increase of EVs and how much more difficult they are to put out.

[@KOZMOuvBORG]

Would like Deas reinstated as the name for the black pioneer canner of the region from a century and a half ago.

[@berniepascual4094]

If i tell you I don't want a 10 lane bridge for $3.5B dollars that shouldve been done 2 years ago but instead I want an 8 lane tunnel which costs more than $4.5B dollars which will be completed by 2030. WIll you not think that i'm stupid and crazy? Yep, that's NDP and Green party for you. And don't forget Richmond Mayor Brodie for his foresight of let's not solve this bottleneck since its also traffic in Oak St. Bridge anyway. A bunch of GENIUS!

[@Tats2020]

the population of the LML doubles every 40 years. The government is always behind on these kinds of projects. It should have be replaced years ago.

[@gladeous4161]

If Deas Island had a nut farming company? It would be called Deas Nuts

[@couchpotatoinc]

I always bypass with 91. Don’t want to be caught in that thing if an earthquake hits lol. The bridges are all able to withstand a quake (except patullo and knight st)

[@DavidM2002]

The statistical possibility of being caught in the tunnel during an earthquake AND you being harmed is so infinitesimally small that you probably have a far higher chance of being hurt in an accident by taking a longer, faster router going around.

[@tandemcompound2]

Think the NDP will manage to build a new Deas Island bridge by 2050?

[@Zzrdemon6633]

Last thing i'm doing is riding a bicycle through that thing! Well if it gets built, every province is broke as it is

[@gregblair5139]

How about building a new bridge or tunnel for to accommodate one direction of travel + bikes and pedestrians and leave the existing tunnel for the other direction.

[@iinventedrunescape]

So they stopped the production of a cheaper 10 lane bridge that can be easily maintained for a 6 lane more expensive tunnel that is incredibly hard to maintain?

[@angus7278]

What is so “incredibly hard” about maintaining a tunnel over maintaining a bridge?

[@alecksfawth]

That new tunnel should be trolled until it’s paid off

[@ryhinton]

Why did they decide on a tunnel over a bridge back in the 50's?

[@jasonforster9445]

The Alasken National Wildlife Area on Westham Island is my bet.

[@DrFiero]

From what I recall, it was 'native lands' that they couldn't get access to on either side of the river.

[@leonardpriestley6822]

John Smorgasborgan canceled the bridge.

[@P7777-u7r]

The entire history of the 499 can unfortunately be summed up as "half measure" and "what could have been". It was a beautiful freeway when it opened up until the Van city limits. It was ultimately all pointless since it never got finished through Vancouver it just unceremoniously dumps you off in Van with a "LOL good luck finding the Lions Gate bridge". It was supposed to run elevated along an old right of way and then around the side of downtown and across a third crossing which would have "replaced" the Lions Gate into just being part of the park and the current situation was supposed to be "temporary". The problem is ultimately people didnt fully understand just what causes traffic backups in the Lower Mainland. It's not that highway through traffic needed more Fraser crossing capacity it's that local street traffic needed that capacity which all got given to the highways causing local traffic to have to use highways for stupidly short distances backing them up. Instead of a grand bridge or tunnel project the Lower Mainland would be better off with lots of tiny neighbourhood size bridge and ferry crossings up and down the river.

[@colinyandon6137]

Ahh, Richmond! I turn reft now! Good ruck everybody else!

[@frankhoffert3480]

The tunnel is obsolete. Build a 6 to 8 lane bridge. BC needs to get out of the horse and buggy road system.

[@inlangford]

I doubt a horse and buggy has ever even been through the tunnel!? 😂 6 lane Bridge would be the same as tunnel with counterflow measures..... build another 4 lane tunnel...

[@angus7278]

Why is a tunnel “obsolete”? Based on what?

[@lifelong5425]

The lower mainland of BC..the mess that is sold as one of the best places in the world to live, still struggling to use a 4 lane tunnel from 1959 that sees nightmare traffic congestion on a minimum of 5 days per week.....Realty Number 1....If you can afford it, you deserve a medal, or you have lived here long before this era began, after Expo 86...Number 2...if you don't mind living under never ending construction, delays, gridlock, over priced housing, un affordable rents, gas prices that are the highest in Canada, Transit fares that keep rising, while still not offering anything but average suburban service at best., come on in, join the debacles called Vancouver. As they basically rebuild it all, the taxes are spiraling upwards, prices of everything continue to skyrocket, and honestly, affordability in this area is truly lost.....What once was a fantastic West coast city, is now a gridlocked over priced developers dream, for off shore buyers and investors.....This little vignette....A new tunnel....years in the making....again !

[@AWSVids]

As someone who believes that the BCNDP have been mostly much better for this province than the BC Liberals were, and continue to believe they're the best of the options overall... cancelling that bridge is one decision that I just cannot defend. Baffling, really. Especially if they were just going to replace that plan with a worse solution.

[@wishteria234]

I lived there and the commute and expense sent me to Alberta, I hope the Conservatives fix broken and costly BC

[@metroidragon]

As a resident of Ladner I'm quite happy to see the replacement bridge plans fail. Urban sprawl into the Agricultural Land Reserve should not be encouraged, and induced demand is real, all of the surrounding roads would become gridlocked, Ladner is mostly 2 lane roads, and highway 99 northbound has the 4-lane oak st bridge 5 minutes down the road. There are no tall buildings in or around Ladner, and that original bridge would dominate the skyline in what is one of the only small communities left in the Lower Mainland. Gridlock wont go away just because more roads are added, quite the opposite happens. Road diets work, work from home is normal these days, I say scrap the tunnel replacement plan and bring back the ferry.

[@AWSVids]

Moving the gridlock away from the crossing itself and helping to disperse it more is an improvement, though. That's part of why the plan was to improve all the surrounding roads and connections as well, to help absorb that induced demand and spread it out more. A lot of little chokepoints that eat up a few minutes each is better than one big chokepoint that eats up hours by causing stand-stills, especially if people end up caught in/on the tunnel/bridge itself, where you ideally don't want people to stop or slow too much and spend time in the tunnel (or on the bridge), or immediately outside the tunnel, which is where the chokepoint is happening now, and once you're in the there, you're stuck there with no way to turn off or turn around. With a more dispersed system, once you're past those little chokepoints that are further removed from the crossing, then it's free sailing across the tunnel/bridge where you ideally want people to spend less time. They pretty successfully made this happen with Port Mann, where I don't think I've ever seen freeway traffic back up onto the bridge or anywhere near it since the new wide bridge was built. (widest bridge in the world, apparently... and look at that, bandwidth matters. No gridlock on it.)

[@creid7537]

@@AWSVidsI’m not sure which world you live in, but in the one I do, the Port Mann is still a problem. It is marginally better than what it was with the original bridge, but the new one came 15 years too late, and now it’s a major parking lot / choke point every morning and afternoon.

[@XxXNinjaFanXxX]

Oh good lord. I see this so often, mOrE lAnEs WoNt FiX TRafiC. It's not a matter of adding more lanes. It's a matter of BC not keeping up with infrastructure. We don't have the luxury of saying more lanes won't fix anything. Transit uses lanes as well, one ALR zone cannot mean everyone has to suffer for some animals. If we had kept up with infrastructure improvements, we wouldn't be having this conversation now, if we had listened to George Massey all those years ago, we probably wouldn't be having the conversation we are having now, or it wouldn't be as urgent. The fucking NDP cancelled something that would have benefitted the PEOPLE. You dumbass urbanists decide to put animals and some agricultural land ahead of everyone else. What happens if you or one of your loved ones gets shot in Richmond, but the closest hospital is in ladner during rush hour? I get preserving wildlife as best as possible, but at what point do you say enough is enough.

[@Bob-nw5rx]

NIMBY

[@metroidragon]

@@Bob-nw5rx You say that like its a bad thing. NIMBYs are the only people fighting to keep our communities relatively intact and not let billionaires and developers further turn metro vancouver into a playground for the super wealthy. Try joining us NIMBYs and maybe we can save this part of the world from the influence of transnational corporations and developers who just want to get rich and will happily pave over burns bog to do so.

[@buddywhatshisname522]

I spend way too much time in this tunnel. Thankfully my hours are not standard so I usually miss the worst of it. I applaud the inclusion of transit lanes, but increasing lane numbers has never worked to decrease congestion, and in fact has been shown to increase it. Hopefully the HOV/transit lanes will counter that. We’ll see I guess.

[@timr.2257]

Delayed and overbudget. Typical NDP logic.

[@nirmal6632]

Bridge>Tunnel

[@DavidM2002]

If a bridge was built to replace it, the flood of vehicles would simply jam up at the light at 70th & Oak Street backing up to block both bridge exits to Marine Drive.

[@vancity87]

I guess the answer is to do nothing and just give up, even though we add like 400k people to the region every 10 years...

[@_PITBOY]

The tunnel should be 5 lanes each way, one for busses and the internal lane for peds and bikers ect. That would give cars 4 lanes each way total, or 1 more lane than today. 3 lanes (the same as now) ... for 4 billion dollars, is a waste of money. There will still be traffic jams, guaranteed. Why wouldnt there be?

[@schwags1969]

Try going across the 2'nd Narrows Bridge from North Vancouver on a Friday at 4:30pm... The GVRD takes a load of tax money, I wonder why so many people leave Vancouver. I did in 2017, best decision ever. Bought a house and live fairly nice.

[@morganahoff2242]

I don't think it's wise to make something that big. More lanes does not make for less traffic, and fewer problems. I think that 4 lanes was shortsighted; I've seen 5 lanes with one that changes direction work well. It's always 2+3, instead of 1+3, which has led to problems. I like the idea of a dedicated bike/pedestrian lane. They should build a tunnel with 5 lanes, plus one for bikes. Hard to believe the George Massey tunnel got built, after lengthy debate and discussions, and they did not come to this conclusion. Adding a bike lane would mean people could live in Ladner, and ride to Steveston; it's not far, and would be an enjoyable outing.

[@matthewmunk7266]

You do realize that the lanes would still need to narrow once you get to Oak, right? Congrats, you'd spend billions of extra dollars to shift the exact same traffic jam a few km further north.

[@schwags1969]

@@matthewmunk7266 It is a whack-a-mole really.

[@kirstenstevens971]

You can put as many car lanes as you want. If there are more car lanes, there will be more cars to fill those spots. If there are better alternatives available, people will use them (someone who just commutes in a straight line will likely just walk through the tunnel or transit). There are plenty of people who would gladly leave their car at home and either walk/cycle, transit to their destination if it was feasible. So why not build the infrastructure now? If you are a driver and wanting more lanes, you should actually be pushing for more alternative forms of transport (especially if you never want to or cannot use alternative forms of transportation). Every person that switches to either transit or walking/cycling is one less car on the road with you and will decrease traffic overall. The other issue is say we do add a 5 lane for cars, for awhile the commute will be quick (depending on if each end of that bridge can handle the increased traffic flow), people who take transit or cycle now see that their commute is only 10 minutes with the new 5 lane bridge. They decide they value their time and switch to driving their car to work, along with a bunch of other people. Now you actually have more people driving (who normally wouldn't drive), plus the addition of growth. In 10 years that 5 lanes won't be enough and people will be asking for 7 lanes. There has to be consideration for where this traffic ends up if we have more lanes. Look at the Lions Gate. Having 20 lanes each way will not solve anything. The people coming from the north shore are spit out into downtown at Georgia and Denman, if we had 5 lanes headed downtown from Nvan, there is nowhere for that traffic to go as the downtown core would not change just because there are now 5 lanes headed into the city.

[@gladeous4161]

Thanks NDP for wasting more of our money. We could've been using the new bridge by now for less $.

[@cleanfreak-producer2]

massey tunnel is trash all richmondites hate it

[@noelgenoway9360]

A four lane tunnel will be a bottle neck on day 1 of opening in 2030. Thanks NDP for not seeing this!!!! Same is replacing St. Paul's Hospital as a 500 bed hospital in the west end and replace it with the new St. Paul's Hospital on False Creek Flats with a same size 500 bed hospital. The NDP has to go! No future consideration that the GVRD will be over 3 million people with infrastructure of the 1950's. There needs to be a new tunnel to the north shore, and sky train to the north shore. The NDP lack vision and it is so so so so time to go!!!!!!

[@coldeadhands]

Net zero immigration

[@gregsutton2400]

had to have a tunnel, because Woke I guess.

[@danieldosso2455]

More lanes for cars is not the answer, more public transit like buses and railway is the answer for a sustainable future

[@vancityslicker2844]

This tunnel is so unsafe. Its no longer anchored down its actually floating just waiting to be washed away. The water has flowed underneath pushing the tunnel upwards that's why its always leaking. How do I know this? I worked on the delta 99 extending the lanes and read blueprints of the current state of this tunnel. Thats why I always take hwy 17. Mark my words... this tunnel will be an epic disaster one day!

[@BotN604]

Not to mention the political and nimby boondoggles that delayed its replacement. I avoid it too, now I just have more reasons.

[@vancityslicker2844]

Vancouver infrastructure is absolutely terrible and I build roads and highways for a living. Its so painful following these bozos plans who do the engineering of the highways! Especially when we're taking out roads for bicycle lanes. Its such a joke and a waste of time and tax payers money!