ISABEL NEVILLE, DUCHESS OF CLARENCE | Forgotten women of the Wars of the Roses | History Calling

[@HistoryCalling]

What do you make of how Isabel was treated by her father and brother? Let me know below and check out: BUY MY BOOK (Find Your Irish Ancestors Online): amzn.to/3Z2ChnG Website (with 2 FREE DOWNLOADS): www.historycallingofficial.com/ Patreon: www.patreon.com/historycalling Amazon storefront: www.amazon.com/shop/historycalling Instagram: instagram.com/historycalling/

[@opheliadeclines]

Both daughters were treated like living deeds or proof of property, I doubt Warwick cared any more for them than the Bolyns cared for Mary and Ann.

[@sweptashore]

Sadly, Isabel's story is neither surprising nor unusual. Henry III's extended family tree is a tangled mess of tragic stories. These women must have had incredible inner strength to survive, even if only into their 20's.

[@sandrastevens4418]

I think both Isabel and Anne were used by their father to gain power, and were it concerned Isabel she was used by both her father and Clarence for Clarence to get the throne. I believe that in the end, she died from either consumption or childbed fever (puerperal fever), yet at the time her husband accused one of her ladies-in-waiting of having murdered her, and committed judicial murder. Isabel died at only 25 years old. Used by a father who treated her like she was cattle and in a way sold her off to George Plantagenet Duke of Clarence in a loveless marriage only so they could rise against Edward IV and try to make George King.

[@08andylee]

Brother? Like chattel, I guess they learned to appreciate the little things in life. Now I see why so many women became nuns. At least they would've had a little more autonomy in their lives. You should do a video on Anne of Beaujeu, they didn't call her La Grand Madame for nothing. She was running France from 1483-90. 😁

[@Nightbird1914]

I did not think Isabel and Anne had a brother.

[@purplexninjamom]

Thank you for not skipping Isabel. I always love learning about the more "niche" characters of the Wars of the Roses.

[@HistoryCalling]

I so nearly did, but I'm glad I included her too. :-)

[@sharonharber2107]

Anne, Duchess of Exeter (sister of Edward IV) is my favourite niche character from the Wars of the Roses. A difficult marriage to a psychopath husband arranged as part of Henry VI’s Love Day virtue signalling, she lived apart from him with their daughter and somehow got what was effectively a divorce.

[@valeriecitta5593]

​@sharonharber2107 thanks for sharing. I'm also interested in those folks we don't hear about as much.

[@octoberrust127]

Indeed!

[@annmoore6678]

Isabel's story is indeed tragic. I think I feel the sorriest for her, out of all the characters who figure in the Wars of the Roses. Thank you for enabling us to spend some time reviewing her brief and tumultuous life. In some ways, her slightly more visible story helps us to glimpse the many ordinary people who needlessly lost their lives as the descendants of Edward III fought over the throne. I don't remember whether it was Sharon Kay Penman or Conn Iggulden who wrote in one of their novels about the fate of poor Ankarette Twynho, who was executed by Clarence for supposedly murdering his unfortunate wife. Both helpless pawns in those terrible times.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Anne. Yes, Ankarette's story is awful. George was an absolute pig.

[@annmoore6678]

@@HistoryCalling I suppose that was why they marinated him in wine.

[@JacqueScherrer]

Oh yay! You made a video on Isabella! She is my 16x great grandmother. I will be sure to come back and watch this later today when I have more time. 😊

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes. I wasn't going to do a video on her initially and then after the video on Anne I just thought, 'Oh heck, I'm just gonna go for it'. :-)

[@michaelbonner3908]

How did you get records that far back

[@gonefishing167]

Thank you, love these videos. Women didn’t seem to have much choice back then did they. Just ‘do as you’re told’. Sad lives. They may have had money but, really, what food did it do them? Guess they didn’t starve. I think the story of Isabelle’s daughter, Margaret, is one of the saddest. Through absolutely no fault of her own, she suffered greatly. Betrayed by her own son. Whether he did it for church or for revenge , he is still complicit in the death ( and agony) of his mother. Wonder how the rest of his life felt to him. Did he have nightmares ( deserved one’s’ 👍👍👍👍🙏🙏👵🇦🇺

[@JacqueScherrer]

@@HistoryCallingI just watched. Thank you for making this. I love genealogy and when I stumbled upon the Plantagenets in my family tree, I though, “Figures. Of all the Plantagenets I could have been descended from, it would be the treasonous Prince George, who was executed by drowning in a barrel of malmsey wine 🤦‍♀️.” While George and his antics leave something to be desired, his wife, Isabella Neville, has always been intriguing to me. She certainly endured a lot of hardships for living such a short life. During those times it must have been difficult for the women, in general, as they had no voice and were at the mercy of the men’s decisions, battles, wars. Left to the hardships of constant pregnancy and childbirth without the medicine we have today.

[@kristavengen5876]

@@michaelbonner3908family search, ancestry, my true heritage, geni, wikitree, private genealogists, etc.. take your pick, there are a plethora of ways

[@zackerylamb9511]

😂😂😂 I love the shade you threw at Henry Vlll

[@HistoryCalling]

Well, he more than earned it I think. :-)

[@frenchy1987]

I wish i could sit and talk to this woman i have so many questions and i love learning about history and shes amazing at explaining everything

[@chriscarson7384]

A perfect depiction of how tragic it is when ambition and greed are the driving forces in one's life. Isabel's father and husband seem not to have cared about her at all. Sadly, so many women are still treated as pawns by their families. 😒😒

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, it is awful to realise that there are still so many places in the world where women are treated like this and worse.

[@happycommuter3523]

Thanks so much for another fantastic video! Your videos are another reason to enjoy Friday. ROTFL at “In your face, Henry VIII.” One of my favorite lines from Wolf Hall is Cromwell’s little aside about the king of France, “Three sons, how God must love him.” And extra thanks for not using that horrible “Red Devil” painting of Richard III. 😊 Much love from across the Pond.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. Just think though, Edward III had 5 sons and it caused soo many problems. One good daughter was all Henry VIII needed. He just didn't appreciate that fact. I'm not crazy about the Richard III painting either, but there are so few unique images of him that when I discovered it recently I included it in Anne's video just to be able to show something different. It wouldn't be my first choice as an image of him though.

[@phoebenorth2759]

Great video of war of the roses again history calling 🌹🌹♥️♥️🤗🤗

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Phoebe. Have a lovely weekend.

[@markadams7597]

Well done, Ty.

[@tephrafalls6321]

I love how you mention media out there, depicting historic people, and what the differences between fiction and historic evidence are. Your research is well done!

[@williamrobinson7435]

I watched both of your films on the Neville sisters, both are excellent! Thank you so much for this wonderful work. 🌟👍

[@HistoryCalling]

My pleasure. Glad you enjoyed them :-)

[@obcl8569]

You weren't kidding - this new video is BRILLIANT! Thank youuuuuuu 😊

[@HistoryCalling]

You're very welcome. Glad you liked it :-)

[@sdl1ishappy]

I have always thought that George really loved Isabel. He may not have been the best or most mentally stable person, but I can see in his mind that he was her knight in shining armor who was going to make her queen. I don't know what she thought of him, but he always operated like he believed he was the hero of the story. And he did unravel after she died.

[@HistoryCalling]

I hope he loved her too. As for his unraveling though, part of that was anger at not being allowed to remarry where he wished, so I'm not sure what to say about that in relation to his love for Isabel. :-0

[@sdl1ishappy]

@@HistoryCalling He does seem like the type of man that would imagine that his wife needs exactly what he himself wants. So there's that. I can also imagine him never actually consulting her about whether or not she would like to be queen.

[@vickiewallace415]

Thanks! I’m so enamored of your content, I’m a bit of a history buff, but I learn something new every single time you put a video out! This is rare; AND I LOVE IT!

[@HistoryCalling]

THANK YOU SO MUCH VICKIE FOR YOUR GENEROUSITY. I'm glad you find the channel useful too and not just the same stuff being pumped out by the other history channels.

[@ChrisMhiclochlainn]

The Wars of the Roses AKA everyone is related to each other and everyone is trying to kill each other. This video worked out well to do after her sister’s video from last week. These women might not have looked like the stain glass portraits but they both look beautiful and elegant in them.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yup, that about sums up that conflict :-) Yes, I love those windows too. They're in Cardiff Castle.

[@pablovivant9089]

Perhaps also worth mentioning that, through her daughter Margaret, Isabel did have numerous descendants, in contrast to her sister Anne and many other members of the House of York.

[@Jo_Lori]

Well done! Thanks.

[@Shane-Flanagan]

'In your face Henry VIII' The deadpan delivery was everything 😅😅

[@gillsinclair6927]

I feel for the two sisters who were used as pawns by their father and George. Poor Isabel and Anne. Thanks for the video. Very informative.

[@HistoryCalling]

You're very welcome and me too. I wouldn't want to switch places with either of them. I've already outlived them both by quite a few years.

[@gillsinclair6927]

@@HistoryCalling I'd be positively ancient then

[@tuikkur.5655]

After the Anne Neville video last week I was hoping, that you would make a video about Isabel too. Apparently you read my mind! 😁 I've long been fascinated about these two ladies, the Kingmaker's daughters, but unfortunatelly I've known very little about them. But now I know much more! So thank you from the bottom of my heart! 🥰❤️

[@HistoryCalling]

You're very welcome. Isabel wasn't originally on my list, but people had asked for her and the research on Anne overlapped to such a degree that I just decided to go for it.

[@aliceingoryland]

Came home from a bachelorette weekend and had to watch this! And I loved the shade at Henry viii

[@amanitamuscaria7500]

I'm glad you made a video for Isabel. She deserves at least that we know something of her short life. Thank you.

[@lfgifu296]

Great video about very forgotten person! (I strongly suspect Her Remarkable History will have a new post soon💀) I did watch the video yesterday, by the way, but couldn’t comment. have a nice weekend:))

[@AXEL00754]

Many thanks for another well-presented and informative video about a fascinating and, for the main players, very dangerous period of history....👏

[@lindawhite8566]

I am a direct descendent of Isobel Neville. Thank you for the informative video about her life!

[@delia88209]

Happy Friday. I watched History Hit KZbin channel on Henry VI and how it led to the war of the roses and the role of Margaret of Anjou. While watching that video, I kept remembering your video on Margaret of Anjou. Now I have to go back and rewatch your videos on her. Another great video about the women in the war of the roses.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Delia. Enjoy hearing about Margaret again :-)

[@johnwebb4655]

Love your videos! I did want to mention though, the reason the Lancastrians claimed a stronger blood claim was because they descended purely through a patrilineal line. Lionel of Antwerp (Edward III’s second son), only had a daughter, Philippa, and so the bloodline didn’t pass through only men, thus by the standards of the time, the Lancastrians had the stronger claim. Although once Mary I and Elizabeth I took the throne, this changed and the primogeniture laws essentially changed from “male only”to “male preference”.

[@emmarichardson965]

Yeah, that has confused me. The Yorkish claim is through two women, Philippa and Anne Mortimer.

[@HistoryCalling]

I'm responding to this just off the top of my head, so go easy on me if I get it wrong as I don't have a family tree in front of me, but I think the issue here is that we're talking about different generations. An older brother's daughters outrank the children (boys and girls) of any younger brothers. The Lancastrians descend through the third son of Edward III, whereas the Yorks come through the second (and 4th, but that's neither here nor there). I understand what you mean about the Yorks' claim coming through Philippa and Anne Mortimer and there were definitely grumblings about that from what we'll call 'male purists', but the Yorks themselves would have argued that what mattered was that they ultimately came from the 2nd son of Edward III, even if their later descent was through a female line. It's a bit like the way the current Princess Beatrice and Eugenie outrank their cousin, James, Earl of Wessex. It's because they are descended from Elizabeth II's second son, whereas James is descended from her third. The fact that he's a boy doesn't mean he outranks them. What matters if that the Princesses' father is older than his father. Does that make sense? It's tricky to explain without charts, but I hope I've been clear enough. Of course all the rules of inheritance were a bit more fluid then so really you can argue it either way. I'm just explaining the Yorks' point of view and the POV that we might take in modern times.

[@johnwebb4655]

@@HistoryCalling definitely makes sense, and yes I agree, both made differing arguments. I was simply sharing the Lancastrian view as it seems a lot of times people forget what their argument to a better claim was! And if we were going by the standards of the mid 1500s on, the Yorkists certainly had a better claim beyond a doubt. It’s so interesting how these things changed over time. Same goes for the rules with consanguinity, annulments, etc., which seemed to fluctuate at different periods (sometimes stricter, sometimes less). Would be neat to examine what was going on with some of these legal systems and terms and how they fluctuated throughout the centuries!

[@emmarichardson965]

@@HistoryCalling Thank you for the fuller explanation!! I was under the impression that mid-1400s England leaned more 'male only' than 'male preference'. I'm guessing that had Philippa or Anne actually tried to take the throne, there would have been more fuss than a male descendant like Richard of York or Edward IV? (Similar to Empress Matilda vs Henry II?)

[@ld9044]

Thank you for another awesome video ❤

[@carolinegreenwell9086]

two things stick out for me during this time - first how callously they treated each other - and secondly just how much they travelled around

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, you don't expect that much travel in the 1400s for sure.

[@Moebian73]

Isabelle was treated like shite by those 2. Poor lass. Great video as always. Hope you had a grand week, be merry & I look forward to the next video. :)

[@foxenandfamily5060]

On Edward III having five surviving sons: "In your face, Henry VIII." I lol'd. Interesting subject and thanks for this video!

[@happycommuter3523]

I had to hit pause for a second because I was laughing so hard!

[@HistoryCalling]

Haha, yes I thought that would raise some eyebrows. I just think how it's interesting that Edward's 'problem' (or rather his descendants' problem) was too many sons, while Henry's was not enough.

[@edithengel2284]

Thank you for the admirably clear video. Poor lady.

[@HistoryCalling]

You're welcome :-)

[@mindymorgan8479]

Love it. Like all of the other videos ofc!

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Mindy :-)

[@leticiagarcia9025]

Another tragic story during the time of the War of the Roses. I hope she had some happy days throughout her life. Sadly two of her children were executed. Thank you for the history lesson. I really enjoyed it. Have a great weekend.

[@dianetheisen8664]

Sadly, after Henry Tudor became King 👑, effectively ending the Wars of the Roses 🌹, the tragic Storys continued.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, it really was a very unlucky family unit. :-(

[@opheliadeclines]

At least she didn't have to see that. I thought of her daughter, poor Lady Pole - a lifetime of terror, others executed before her, then they botched her end.

[@Knight860]

Isabel Neville was a real tragedy of the Wars of the Roses by her father's and husband's ambitions. Her sister Anne tried to be the master of her fate, after first husband Edward of Lancaster died, by marrying the future Richard III. The Wars of the Roses game of Political Chess dictated you were either a player or a pawn. Edward, Earl of Warwick was most likely executed at the behest of Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile as part of the marriage deal for their daughter Catherine to the Prince Arthur.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, I've heard about the theory that Warwick was a victim of the Aragon marriage negotiations. I think his attempt to escape contributed to it as well, but the marriage may well have had an impact too.

[@opheliadeclines]

I enjoy the back to back, as they each had such key roles in their time.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, I haven't done it that way for any of the other women of the Wars of the Roses (although that's in part because biography videos usually take such a long time to do) but it worked well for them as they were sisters and for me because the research for one was much the same as the research for the other. In hindsight though I wish I'd done Isabel first as she was the elder, but I hadn't originally intended to do a video on her at all.

[@opheliadeclines]

@@HistoryCalling she was often an afterthought.

[@jldisme]

Lovely video. Thank you.

[@katherinecooper6159]

Thank you very much for telling the story of Isabelle. I always learn so much from the programs that you present thank you.

[@jamesmackey2120]

Hi HC, thanks again for a very interesting video. I thought it rather apt that you’ve followed Anne with Isobel. As with my follow up comment last week, feeling sorry for Anne and how she was a pawn for others, her sister Isobel was exactly the same. I assume that though they were from a powerful aristocratic family they both had hard lives. Do you think the sisters were portrayed accurately in ‘The White Queen’ drama? Also, loved you’re comment of “in your face Henry VIII. 😂 Thanks again. 👍🏻

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks James. To be honest I don't think we know enough about their personalities to know if the White Queen was accurate or not. I think Philippa Gregory just had to make it up and I can't blame her. There's basically nothing to go on for these two women.

[@dianetheisen8664]

@@HistoryCalling I loved the series and I love Philippa Gregory👑‼️

[@EriAug78]

‘’In your face Henry VIII” 😂😂 love it

[@lynndeschambault1067]

I listen to alot of these history thingys on KZbin while I do my housework. You by far are my favourite 😊 I LOVE your accent & gentle humour & most especially the way you say " eight".

[@perniciouspete4986]

It might be interesting to do a video on Isabella' "the She-Wolf of France'" who overthrew her husband Edward II (and may have had him killed) so that she and her lover could rule England in the name of her young son Edward III.

[@dominaevillae28]

There is one.

[@perniciouspete4986]

No, Margaret of Anjou was misidentified by Shakespeare as "the She-Wolf of France." She wasn't; Isabella of France was. Shakespeare just called her that in "Henry VI, Part 3" because of what he wrote she did at the battle of Wakefield--she wasn't even there, so he was wrong about that, too. Hell of a scene, though, so Shakespeare can be forgiven for his dramatic license.

[@HistoryCalling]

She's on my list (all the bad ass women of English/Scottish/British history are really) and gets a little mention in my Joan of Kent video too. :-)

[@cathybaggott2873]

@@perniciouspete4986 I thought Margaret was the she-wolf of Anjou, so-called because of the savagery of the mercenary soldiers she hired. As these are epithets they could be created as descriptors at any time. For sheer nastiness though, Isabella would probably win the title.

[@perniciouspete4986]

Perhaps we can agree that Isabella was the original "She-Wolf of France"--by more than 100 years--and that she was certainly the "She-Wolfest." Besides, Margaret really wasn't that bad, certainly not as bad as Shakespeare portrayed her (see my previous comment). For political purposes, Shakespeare always blamed the Lancastrian house--of which Margaret was a very important part--for the War of the Roses. Why? Because Henry Tudor (Queen Elizabeth's grandfather) ended the war and became king, and Elizabeth Tudor was Shakespeare's queen when he wrote the Henry VI plays. Shakespeare gave the Yorkists a pass for their involvement because Henry Tudor's wife (Queen Elizabeth's grandmother) was a Yorkist.

[@xarosh]

Gracias por agregar a personajes más desconocidos. En lo personal, siempre he sentido mucha curiosidad por Elizabeth de York, creo que ella no es tan conocida, a la sombra de Elizabeth Woodville y Margareth Beafourt.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. I'm not sure what your comment says exactly, but I think you are asking for a video on Elizabeth of York and there will be one on her eventually. I promise!

[@xarosh]

@@HistoryCallingyou’re understanding correctly! Sorry, my written English it’s no soo good, but I understand and love your voice to tell history events. Best regards from Chile 🇨🇱

[@williethomas5116]

"Since he had no loyalty to anyone other than himself he switched sides again." That sentence completely sums George up in a nutshell.

[@keicoohashi-n8b]

Another lovely video! Warwick and Clarence simply used Isabel for their own ends. What a pity that we know little of her childhood or education. Isabel's daughter Margaret and her descendants were involved in the Counter Reformation in England, supporting the Roman Catholic church against the separation of the church of England. I was just wondering about why Clarence suddenly changed the sides , joined the forces of his brothers, Edward IV and Richard. This was because Warwick that earn Margaret of Anjou trust, betrothed his daughter Anne to Edward of Westminster. Clarence opposed this marriage realizing that was the end of Warwick's support for putting him on the throne, that was when Warwick decided that he would replace Edward IV with Clarence, rather than with the mentally ill Henry VI. Thanks again for your explanation.

[@raumaanking]

Are you planning on making any Mary queen of Scot’s videos in the near future because Kathrine Hepburn has played the role as her in a film it’s an idea maybe you can make a video on how historically accurate it is once again just and idea and great video

[@HistoryCalling]

I have one on her execution and another on her relationship with Elizabeth I if you're interested. I certainly wouldn't rule out more on her.

[@Sassenach4life]

As always great video! It’s just so tragic Isabell and her sister were used as pawns for Warwick’s personal gain. I also wish there was a contemporary portrait of both women. “In your face Henry Vlll” classic!

[@stephencarrillo5905]

Love the shots of Warwick Castle, HC! Looked as if it was a beautiful day; was it cold? I need to rewatch your video of George's execution. His judicial murder of Isabel's maidservant seems another sign he was losing his.....stuff (can't use the four letter word on YT). It's amazing how many little-known historical figures led epic-worthy lives. Thanks for shining a light on Isabel. Be well. 🙏🏼

[@HistoryCalling]

Oh no, it was absolutely roasting. In the 30s. It was just after the serious heatwave last summer.

[@stephencarrillo5905]

@@HistoryCalling 🥵Yikes! Our proximity to the Golden Gate has helped us avoid the seriously high temps in California recently.

[@HistoryCalling]

I'm glad. I've been watching all the heatwaves in Europe and the States and feeling grateful that we don't have it here in the UK.

[@lykacastuciano1604]

Hi history calling can you please do a video on Edward the confessor

[@HistoryCalling]

Never say never :-)

[@sarahwatts7152]

I'd love this too!

[@heatherbaker2620]

I will never tire of royal history, but if you ever get a chance, will you maybe do a series on the origins of the colleges of Cambridge (specifically Gonville and Ciaus)?

[@WestCoastGal-35]

These poor women, used as pawns by family members and spouses. Then passing at such a young age, what a life! This was a very interesting video, thank you!🇨🇦

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, it wasn't much of a life for them, poor things. :-(

[@King_Steffon_II]

Awesome companion video ❤ What program do you use to make the family tree?

[@ovrtrubledwtr1]

I would love to hear you speak about Margaret Pole and her life and gruesome execution.

[@HistoryCalling]

On the list :-)

[@ovrtrubledwtr1]

@@HistoryCalling yay! I’m so excited! I can’t wait.

[@person650]

Can you do a video on Isabella of France and Eleanor of Aquitaine

[@HistoryCalling]

They're on my list :-)

[@person650]

@@HistoryCalling That's great. I can't wait for the ones on Elizabeth of York as well. Thank you for responding

[@bethanyhait6880]

I know I’m late to the party here, but I would love to see a video on Katherine Swyneford. She wasn’t involved in the Cousin’s War, but a royal mistress whose descendants are still on the throne today had to have had an interesting life.

[@nathanfisher1826]

Very good ! Thank you

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Nathan. Have a lovely weekend :-)

[@emilyson7481]

Yesss!!!! So excited for this one!

[@CindyandRicoTheCoonhoundCross]

"In your face Henry VIII." I actually snorted out loud!

[@dianochka5432]

Gosh, there's a lot of cousins here. Margaret Pole is an ancestor to n enormous number of us. It's nice that Isabel's short life is not forgotten.

[@philippaswanborough6654]

I would love to know more about Philippa of Hainhalt, mother of The Black Prince

[@cathybaggott2873]

13 children, and many more children placed under her guardianship including Joanna of Kent husband Edward III's cousin and wife of the Black Prince and Catherine, later Swinton. John of Gaunt's mistress and third wife (and her sister, wife of Chaucer). I think she must have been a paragon of motherhood and duty but too constantly pregnant to be much involved in politics.

[@williethomas5116]

May I please ask you to post the link to your video on Empress Matilda!?! I've been wanting a video on her from her perspective. Thanks

[@kittykatz5688]

This is a great video, also the joke about Henry VIII made me audibly cackle😂😂😂

[@BeeKool__113]

As always, FANTASTIC video. Each time I visit the channel I am thoroughly entertained and learn something new. Thank you for making a video on Isabel. I loved the video on his sister, Anne. This is a good accompanying video. ❤❤❤❤

[@tekknomadchen5285]

Thanks for this! I think both of the Warwick girls were poorly treated all through their lifetime actually.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, I think so too. I wouldn't want to swap places with either of them.

[@Stevenmasonmommy]

I know that men were ambitious. Back then but I feel like the Earl of Warwick. Was more ambitious than most men. Never caring about Isabell or Anne. I do feel really bad for Isabel. Because I feel like Anne found a little love with Richard. But Isabel only found love in her children, I'm hoping.such a sad life for Isabell so thank you for giving her the love she never got when she was on earth ❤

[@AnnaAnna-uc2ff]

Thank you very much.

[@HistoryCalling]

You're welcome 😊

[@snownewkirk]

Love you vides very much. Glad that someone has told the sisters stories. But where did you find the pictures of the stain glass? They are beautiful!

[@HistoryCalling]

The windows are in Cardiff Castle, but the pictures of them come from Flickr. I love them too. :-)

[@snownewkirk]

@@HistoryCalling thank you :)

[@michellebaker6302]

Oh my gosh I’m dead “In your face Henry the Eighth”🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@farleyhouston9057]

Thanks for these great videos and all your research. One question: I thought Jasper Tudor was Henry VI’s half-brother rather than his uncle? 20:00

[@HistoryCalling]

Oops, did I misspeak? You're correct that Jasper was Henry VI's half-brother through their shared mother and Henry VII's half uncle.

[@cathybaggott2873]

@@HistoryCalling He was Henry VII's full uncle and Henry VI's half brother. You must be tired or rushed to make such a slip.

[@edithengel2284]

@@cathybaggott2873 That's correct. If one has spent quite a lot of time recently in the tangle of Plantagenet relationships, it's easy to emerge a little battered.

[@dianetheisen8664]

Thank you for the video of Isabel. Her life is as interesting as her sister's.

[@HistoryCalling]

Glad you enjoyed it :-)

[@joyoung2483]

The Warwick girls are so tragic. In the whole messy saga of the Wars of the Roses I have always felt worse for them and the Princes in the Tower.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, they had a pretty rough time of it. Of course there will have been happy times in there too. I'm sure both were delighted with the safe arrival of their sons and Isabel's daughter Margaret but still, who in their right minds would trade places with them?

[@beastieber5028]

Good evening to history calling from Bea

[@HistoryCalling]

Hi Bea. Hope you have a lovely weekend. :-)

[@BiddyIsABaddy]

I’d love to hear more of every player in the war of the roses 🏵️

[@HistoryCalling]

My playlist on the Wars covers most of them now, even though the videos are more focused on the women than the blokes.

[@mariavi33]

I'm wondering if there were some fertility and/or other medical issues in their mother’s family. Isabel is the most circumstantial one because the complications in her first and last pregnancies could easily have other explanations. However, considering the need to have at least two sons (heir and spare) to secure inheritances at the time, it seems likely that both Anne and their mother had some struggles. Of course, we will never know for sure, but from what we know, I think it's a plausible theory.

[@HistoryCalling]

Perhaps yes. Of course they might have had other pregnancies/children that we don't know about as well.

[@emilybarclay8831]

I’ve just finished eating my weight in homemade spaghetti bolognese and garlic focaccia and I’m gonna slowly drift into a food coma while listening to this video

[@HistoryCalling]

Haha, sounds like a good Friday night to me. Enjoy :-)

[@emmarichardson965]

Woohoo!!! Another War of the Roses biography so quickly!!

[@HistoryCalling]

The research for Isabel really doubled up with the research for Anne, so it made sense to cover them back to back.

[@historyismyplayground1827]

It is tragic. We have so little information about so many women during the wars of the roses. I am sure they would have a lot to tell us if they could.

[@karenr716]

Thanks!

[@HistoryCalling]

THANK YOU SO MUCH KAREN for so kindly donating to the channel. I hope you enjoyed hearing about Isabel. She's one of those women who's generally forgotten from this period unfortunately.

[@English_Dawn]

Thank you. Isabel and Anne had tough lives their first husbands being killed and their father and Montagu uncle, killed on the same day. Danger from childbirth was ever-present sadly for females in all classes, however apart from that being female was a silver bullet. Being male you were expected to share in the fighting and 1/3rd of the male nobility is estimated to have died violently in battle or shortly after it. All in all, despite being traded in politics and the dangers of childbirth it was infinitely superior to being their brothers, fathers and sons during the Roses. Incidentally was Wenlock the Captain of Calais the same that commanded the Lancastrian troop at Tewkesbury? Her husband George seemed unpredictable. Strange, as he was a wealthy man in his own right. He actually commanded a Yorkist wing at Tewkesbury. It is alleged the young Prince Edward was caught by his followers AFTER the battle and was possibly murdered in cold blood by Clarence. All three, Isabel, George and Edward are buried in Tewkesbury Abbey.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, you're right that in many ways women still had it easier during the Wars of the Roses. None of them were ultimately executed after all. I'm afraid I don't know the answer to your Wenlock question off the top of my head. I'm sure Google must have it though.

[@aprilbrown8790]

I watched the White Queen on Starz and her and sister story was brought to life! So sad what they went through especially Isabell! She loved her father and husband dearly but they both used her as a pawn in their own ambitions

[@MichelleBruce-lo4oc]

Hi, awesome live history video I enjoyed it. How are you doing? I'm doing well. Have a great day see you next video 😊

[@HistoryCalling]

Good thank you. I'm actually on holiday at the moment, but trying to fit in some YT comments' responses anyway.

[@BeeKool__113]

I had a good hardy chuckle when the narrator of the channel said,"In your face, Henry VIII." In reference of King Edward III and his many sons. 😂

[@od1452]

Thank you. I didn't know much about Isabel. It would be interesting to know for sure what she thought of all the maneuverings and outcomes. I often don't know what these ladies thought of their lives, but I can't help but have empathy for their situation of living in a time of intrigue and ... brutality . It is ironic that the idea that a good wife will ensure the stabilization of a king because of a male heir ... is often just not the case. In fact, it is often exactly the opposite. I also find it interesting that the belligerents often do what they like , legal or not.,. yet spend any effort to manufacture legality... in an age when Usually might, might not make right, but often does make the status quo. Philosophers may make much of freewill ... but when you look at the lives of people shoehorned into history..,. i can't help wonder if that is really true.

[@deborahbrottmiller2948]

That Duke of Clarence was a piece of work.

[@AprilBird4]

Wonderfully done! I'm well familiar with the back story & listened to Ann's story previously, but I did NOT skip. I think I need to hear these things a million times to keep it straight! Also, Isabel's grandson Henry Pole was executed by Henry VII & great-grandson(Henry Pole's son) went missing from the tower, presumably died. Not 100% on that, so someone confirm or correct me.

[@HistoryCalling]

I'm not too familiar with the later Poles' stories, but nothing would surprise me in that era. Glad you enjoyed the sisters' stories :-)

[@deswan696]

Thanks for your great videos. I love the research that you do and to know that it is trustworthy. Just wondering if you could do the history and legend that is Robin Hood please. My daughter has been studying the constitution and the teacher brought up the Magna Carter and told the class that Robin hood had a part in bringing it about. She then told the class to watch the Disney version of Ronin hood to find out about the history of the Magna Carter!! Please do something on Robin Hood or, if not, the Magna Carter - myself and my daughter would really appreciate it. 🙏

[@HistoryCalling]

I actually debated that very topic at one point, but the thing that put me off was just how messy the origins of that tale are. It would be a nightmare to unpick. There are so many different versions of the story and its origins. It's a bit like the King Arthur legend.

[@deswan696]

@@HistoryCalling Fair enough. I thought that might be the case. Please could you do one on King John and the reasons behind the Magna Carta 🙏

[@joannabaparileszczynska]

Is it known when in history this conflict was named: war of the roses? My apologies if you already spoke about this in a previous video but I can’t recall. Also love the shade you threw at Henry VIII

[@HistoryCalling]

I'm afraid I don't know, but someone else asked the same question and I was saying to them that it has a Victorian whiff about it, but that may not mean anything.

[@cathybaggott2873]

@@HistoryCalling It might mean Tennyson; I read something once, but my memory is not what it once was.

[@emilybarclay8831]

It definitely wasn’t a contemporary name, at the time it was called ‘the cousins’s war’ or ‘the civil wars’ iirc. It doesn’t seem like we have a definitive date for when the name was coined but it was definitely around the 18th or 19th century, in 1727 Bevil Higgons (hilarious name) referred to it as ‘a war between two roses’ but not by the name itself. The 1829 book ‘Anne of Geierstein’ by Sir Walter Scott appears to be the first time it was used in a published work. But it appears to have been a common name in use by then and it doesn’t seem like Scott invented the term

[@annnottingham2270]

I've been to Warwick Castle, and it was very much "The Kingmaker stood where I'm standing!" :D

[@DarthRKO-li7qm]

George, duke of Clarence: I want to be king ! His descendants: Eh, don't care

[@HistoryCalling]

Yeah, Clarence didn't know what was good for him.

[@silverfeigner]

The unfortunate thing about Isabelle was the fact that during this time, women didn't have much of a choice. They were the property of their father and then became the property of their husband.

[@nothing2seehere34]

thanks

[@sandrastevens4418]

Thank you for not skipping Isabel. Because of Phillipa Gregory, she is very Misunderstood

[@HistoryCalling]

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE DONATION SANDRA. Yes, she wasn't on my list initially (nor was Jacquetta of Luxembourg in fact), but I'm glad I covered her. She deserves to be remembered.

[@sandrastevens4418]

@@HistoryCalling Yes and Phillipa Gregory writes fiction. Big difference with non fiction. But because of the TV shows people think it's factual. I was in the Indy films scene and if there is a script. Then it's fiction. If their is an outline with research it is a documentary. Although even those can have a bit of an agenda.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, confusing fact with fiction is indeed a serious problem. I deal with people all the time who want to tell me that I'm wrong about something because they saw it presented in a different way in a TV show.

[@sandrastevens4418]

@HistoryCalling I believe it. That must be super frustrating because you do a lot of research. I bet and look for the actual facts from sources that lived during that time period. And then somebody will have watched the White Queen, White Princess, Spanish Princess, or Showtimes the Tudors. And they will argue with you about history. Their Fables not Facts. Also I saw that you already did a video about the Anarchy. So going to watch that.

[@HistoryCalling]

Sorry for such a slow reply. I was away on holiday. I hope you enjoyed the video on Empress Matilda and the Anarchy :-)

[@profplum5]

I would love it if you took a dive into the historical figures that Shakespeare based some of his plays on. I would love to hear about the real Macbeth ❤

[@donnicholas7552]

Isabel was treated rather badly. Sad life. 😥

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, it just shows there's more to life than money and position.

[@DanielKellyFolkMusic]

Thanks for this great biography! I had hoped that Child Ballad 261 might have been about this Isabel, alas that seems unlikely.

[@keiththorpe9571]

Poor Izzy...She just couldn't catch a break, could she?

[@HistoryCalling]

She really couldn't poor thing. :-(

[@keiththorpe9571]

@@HistoryCalling Yeah, you really have to feel for her because, for all that he was conniving and back-stabbing and treacherous, her husband George, Duke of Clarence was (at the end of the day) kind of an idiot. I think most of his actions bear this out. He would get back onto the right side of things, but only when he had no options left, and traded on the fact that his brother the king wouldn't just kill him out of hand. He didn't seem to have the brains to ever be king, and if somehow he found himself tripping and falling onto the throne, he would never have held it for long. So yeah, Isabelle was in for a rough ride with that ineffectual dip-wad.

[@nickyphoenix2470]

Do you have any stories about who lived in and stayed at Rochester Castle in Kent? I have grown up living very close to the castle and my childhood home i had a clear all be it a mile away view of the castle and the cathedral. It has been such a part of my life but I know so little about it.

[@HistoryCalling]

I'm sorry, no. I've never even been to Rochester, though I've been to Kent a couple of times. I fear I got distracted by Hever and the nearby Bodiam.

[@judycater2832]

So sad that these women seemed to pawns in a terrible game of late medieval chess with human players. Excellent video.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, that's a good way of describing it. Of course in chess the Queen is meant to be the strongest piece on the board, but sadly that wasn't so for Anne.

[@ns-wz1mx]

It’s always hard for me to remember that those were her children who were executed. in my mind, it seems like a hundred years between them!