The (Unstable) Death of Netscape | A Failure to Develop | History in the Dark

[@Sevenfeet0]

Darkness, as one of your "older" viewers, I can give a little bit more color to the Netscape story. The whole Mosaic thing came from the fact that while Tim Berners-Lee invented the world wide web and published the first web server and web browser, the first browser that anyone actually wanted to use was NCSA Mosaic, where NCSA was the National Center for Supercomputing Applications headquartered at the University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign. And two young programmers named Marc Andressen and Eric Bina were responsible for coding it. You showed a picture of Andressen in modern times with his bald head at the beginning of the video, but then you also played a lot of footage of a young blonde guy tapping away at a keyboard and speaking to the camera. That is a very young Marc Andressen back in the early 90s. I was in business school at the time all of this was playing out and I remember working with the university computer science center on testing this new thing called a web browser. And browsers were not a completely new thing. HTML predated NCSA Mosaic back in the 80s where it was used to display information graphically in computers of the day. What made web browsing different and transformative was that instead of making HTML based page content local to a single machine, a web server was used to make those pages available on your network, and therefore, in other parts of the fledgling internet around the world. While I was in college in the mid 80s, I worked on an HTML browser for a programming class and am kicking myself for not recognizing that we just had to do one more step to make this a web browser, not just a local browser. Anyway, NCSA Mosaic made its debut in 1993 and by 1994, Andressen left UI Champaign formed his new company, basically just making a new browser based on his work programming his first one. And the money Andressen made in the Netscape days is the reason he was able to get his venture capital company (Andressen Horowitz) off the ground and is still one of the biggest VCs in Silicon Valley.

[@Hurricanelive]

Netscape and GeoCities felt synonymous to me in the 90s. It felt like the lower level of the internet. HTML was fun, you could easily insert pics, clock, your visitor counter, hyperlinks, offset text, and imbed wav and background music if you were willing to spend a bit of time.

[@cknsok]

Ah, GeoCities. One of those things that, unless specifically mentioned, you forget that it existed.Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

[@annajohnson5779]

I used to go to this site called Bravenet and throw whatever code on my tripod website to embed ALL the goodies they had from counters and so on. I had everything on my BSB website, even a guestbook that played a MIDI of one of their songs. I especially loved their guest map feature where you could see a guestbook in map format to see where everyone who was visiting lived.

[@Tornado1994]

@@cknsok I loved Geocities. Takes me right back to 1999. Lycos/Tripod too.

[@alienalibi2382]

Angelfire

[@haydendegrow945]

Man, you REALLY ignited my memories this time, Darkness! My elementary school only used Apple computers, and the sad thing about them, Netscape actually worked BETTER than the first iterations of Safari at times! I still remember seeing that little "N" icon on the screen.... Damn I'm old

[@BellaRio2]

I remember we had Apple computers in Elementary school too LOL Our classwork included a sheet of graph paper, drawing a basic image and type in the codes to create it onto the computer. Unfortunately, I'm so old that when I had this class, there was no internet yet or at least unknown/unavailable to general public.

[@stellviahohenheim]

I remember watching my first corn on dial up it's a picture of course

[@alexhajnal107]

@@stellviahohenheim Obligatory XKCD: #598

[@alexhajnal107]

@stellviahohenheim Obligatory XKCD: 598

[@annajohnson5779]

Safari didn't come out until much later (I believe 2003 or later?). And Netscape was very stable on macs. internet explorer was a flat-out embarrassment on the mac. We only used it to download a better browser basically.

[@Will_Bx_NYC_718]

I use Firefox as my preferred browser to this day. I been using Firefox since 2003.

[@MrToontastic]

I was a compuserve kid, but Netscape (now Firefox) was pretty cool.

[@grrcat616]

Netscape Nostalgia! It died before it could turn into something evil. Firefox was awesome for awhile. Then Chrome came along and trapped people. I moved away from Chrome a couple of years ago. Back on Firefox, but it is tainted. Too many browsers look good then you wonder "What are they doing with my data?" Maybe paying isn't such a bad idea if you get privacy and security.

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

librewolf

[@alexhajnal107]

I moved off of Chrome when something in my profile got buggered that causes it to crash within a minute or so of being opened. Them being increasing evil was also a factor.

[@Tornado1994]

@@alexhajnal107 I use Brave. Occasionally, Vivaldi, Edge and sometimes Waterfox/Firefox Mozilla aka Neo Netscape. I can't Stand Chrome. Its a Glutton when it comes to memory.

[@Gman112233]

here i am still using firefox

[@Saucy840-]

Best browser ever!!

[@civishamburgum1234]

You're not alone.

[@davediaz5127]

Yep, me too, never let's me down

[@precesionnoreaster1507]

@@Gman112233 Mozilla Firefox is so easy and with the inspect element I mean

[@franksavage8031]

Brave is great too.

[@platinumpagoda3079]

I think I've only been subbed to you for about a month or two, but you quickly became one of my faves, Awesome channel.👍

[@GL-xz3xk]

We had a sign in our office circa 2009 ‘Netscape navigator is not to be used for games’ - came out of a student computer lab. When we all got fired one of the guys took it down and framed it. Now excuse me, I’m just off to download some mp3s with Napster

[@lblack1961]

😂😂

[@bcbradley]

Netscape and Pamela Anderson have a special place in my heart 🙈🙊🙉

[@Low760]

Iykyk.

[@RobsonRoverRepair]

And my pants.

[@DawnOfTheOzz]

I was a Netscape kid. This just makes me miss the days when browsers had little animations for whenever a page loads.

[@ValleyThrills]

With all these fallen companies I wonder if Darkness would ever do videos about the worst company mergers

[@annajohnson5779]

At least give us an AOL episode, damnit. The AOL time warner merger was a real stinker though!

[@jamesmoss3424]

Netscape was popular in the 90's but that was a long time since.

[@candycrushhater5828]

I still think you’ll have some fun talking about movie studios like Carolco Pictures. Or Franchise Pictures.

[@athrunzala75]

Cannon Films would be a good one too.

[@candycrushhater5828]

@@athrunzala75 Ah, the studio who always made films on the cheap. Forgot about that one

[@alexhajnal107]

Internet Explorer was based off of Mosaic. Microsoft acquired a perpetual license to the Spyglass Mosaic codebase with the contract stating that Spyglass would get as a royalty a percentage of the price of each copy of IE that was sold. Microsoft then gave IE away for free and as a result Spyglass got no royalties whatsoever. Nice. (Spyglass Mosaic was the commercialized version of NCSA Mosaic, one of the earliest graphical web browsers, originally released for X11 in 1993, and the first to display images inline on the page.)

[@TheTrashyMan18]

How the hell do you post so many bangers so quickly?

[@JenniferinIllinois]

Loved me some Netscape back in the day. Living about an hour from where Mosiac was developed, I do still have a bit of a soft spot for Netscape.

[@JamesChatting]

I miss the animations in the top right corner, i guess nothing has to load anymore...

[@alexhajnal107]

Now it's done with placeholder images and spinners within the page. Apparently it's "best practice" to have them because with all the layers of Javascript, third-party content (causing lots of [slow] DNS lookups), tracking/instrumentation, etc. page load times are often glacial. It doesn't have to be that way. One can have a good-looking page that's also fast and featureful. Aside: One site I visited yesterday ended up allocating 9GB (!) of RAM for a single static page and slowed the browser to a crawl. It was a graphic designer's site, natch. Aside 2: I often hear people express surprise at how fast pages I've written load. It's because they're written from scratch and only have the bare minimum of code to make them work (usually no Javascript code whatsoever).

[@PanduPoluan]

​@@alexhajnal107 That's good webdev of you! Have you checked out HTMX? "Just enough" JS for interactivity, but no need for overly bloated frameworks/runtimes.

[@HoosierDaddy2a]

You need to do Sinclair Oil. She was once a member of the 7 Sisters

[@LoLotov]

A bunch of gas stations in my town just became Sinclair in the last year or so... the dinosaur statues help.

[@HoosierDaddy2a]

@@LoLotov where?! I collect Sinclair stuff since it's my last name

[@LoLotov]

@@HoosierDaddy2a bellingham WA, the two with statues were both shell stations before, and there are at least a couple more with Sinclair on the sign. Didn't spot any merch, but I tend to be in and out haha. I'm guessing shell owns the licensing and decided the dino theme would play well in a college town?

[@HoosierDaddy2a]

@@LoLotov damn, I'm nowhere close to Washington state. I am planning a future vacation to Washington and Oregon.

[@NeonKnight83]

@@HoosierDaddy2a who/what's the 7 Sisters?

[@TimOGhoul]

Did we grow up in the same 1990s? I’ve never seen a paid Netscape and IE was called Internet Exploder for a reason.

[@annajohnson5779]

I mean, netscape Gold I believe was a paid netscape but it was really really really early netscape.

[@A_Ducky]

Yeah, I preferred NN to IE back in mid-90's

[@csxtrainfan319]

Man I use to use Firefox when I was 3-5 years old back in 2010-2012 it was fast at loading, now I use safari which is kinda fast for me, depending on where my location is. I do miss you doing videos on trains and everything that either went wrong, went right, or just talking about a certain thing on them like the mars light form that other video

[@michaelfisher7170]

Netscape was the first browser I worked with. I’ve used Firefox for years.

[@alexhajnal107]

Lynx

[@workingclassless84]

Still remember my usual stuff I looked up as a kid. Rotten, saleen, steeda, and the edge company catalog. Lol You should do Netzero.

[@LatitudeSky]

And Juno

[@GL-xz3xk]

Stile project

[@BadlyPlaying]

I moved from Netscape to Firefox myself and still use it today. I’ll die before I use chrome. Google gets too much from me already as I watch google owned KZbin on my pixel phone

[@Straswa]

Ah Netscape, good times. Great video Darkness.

[@PianoMan-hx3ev]

Your narration is excellent and very entertaining. Keep up the great work 💫

[@cameraman655]

Netscape, Alta Vista, GeoCities…so many memories and of course that beautiful ‘handshaking’ sound connecting to the ‘Information Superhighway’ that would wake up the entire house in the wee hours…😀. Call me crazy, but I kinda miss those days…🥹

[@alexhajnal107]

Don't forget Lycos. Boolean operators FTW. (Believe it or not lycos•cs•cmu•edu still works!)

[@alexhajnal107]

Don't forget Lycos. Boolean operators FTW. (Believe it or not lycos_cs_cmu_edu still works!)

[@alexhajnal107]

Don't forget Lycos. Boolean operators FTW. (Believe it or not, the original CMU address still works!)

[@annajohnson5779]

tripod. angel fire. aol homepages. Oh god, Lycos. And don't forget searching things on dogpile to search 9 different search engines. Nevermind Ask Jeeves. But I remember way back when logging on and waiting for the web pages to load on 28.8k modem time, I made breakfast with a skillet, made tea, and even had seconds before the page would finally load.

[@nopamineLevel100]

I still remember sitting in the library in primary school watching the teacher boot up Netscape on an old Amstrad and tell us about the World Wide Web 😍

[@jingalls9142]

This is fascinating. Your delivery is quite good as well. What ever that critique is worth from a stranger lol

[@derekthelehighvalleyfoamer4427]

Thanks a lot for, once again, making me feel so young and small. lol I’ve always defaulted to use Google since I was a kid.

[@Big_Tex]

Imagine going to your nearest CompUSA to buy a web browser off the shelf for $39.95

[@Lynn17]

I remember Netscape! We had Internet Explorer at home, but we used Netscape at my school.

[@TruckingShooter]

This drug up memories I forgot I had

[@GrnArrow092]

I remember during my years in high school back in the 90's that Netscape was jokingly referred to as "Nutscrape" by my peers. It was a way of them showing how bad they thought the browser was. As I was content with using the browser that came with Windows 95, I never bothered using Netscape.

[@annajohnson5779]

See even in the dark ages my family were still using macs. And IE was a horrible browser on the mac because they didn't put any effort into maintaining it nor bringing new features into it. In fact, they stopped updating it after version 5.2 around 2002. Like even basic stuff wasn't implemented into it. And the font would render stupidly small as well. And it rendered things terribly on the mac anyway (rip iFrames) so a lot of mac people used netscape and then we switched to firefox later and in that between time, we shuffled around trying to find a good browser before safari showed up. I believe there were people downloading Opera and iCab and all sorts of this other stuff. There was a precursor to safari that used the same (Konquerer? webkit?) engine that I thought was solid that was named Chimera. Chimera was a beautiful browser, I was sad when they stopped developing it. But yeah, back then I would have to check what my websites looked like in different browsers because one thing would render well in one browser on one platform and it would be an abomination in another browser with whole features missing or ones that were broken.

[@K9TheFirst1]

Firefox is likely going to grow more dominant in time. Chrome - and thus it's derivatives using Chromium like Edge - are killing the technology that allows adblockers to function. In an age where ads are growing more and more despised. Meanwhile Firefox has different tech, which allows adblockers to continue to function. Given that, I expect Netscape to have it's true revenge, by embracing anti-corportism.

[@RunicSigils]

Technically, that doesn't necessarily mean Firefox will win. All browsers, except Chrome have a reader mode at this point, which removes all nuisances like ads. You don't even need something to block them, you can just force the browser to remove everything that isn't text, essentially.

[@K9TheFirst1]

@@RunicSigils Ah, but does that touch KZbin ads? Because that's big thing users wand adblockers for.

[@Dmimima]

Love how quickly you get these videos out haha! How is Microsoft Edge ahead of Safari?! That was so surprising to me!

[@annajohnson5779]

especially with how many of us are on iPhone and how many people own macs nowadays.

[@Tornado1994]

@@annajohnson5779 Safari ONLY works if you have the most up to date Mac OSX and iOS software. Other than that, it runs like Utter Trash. On my Macbook Pro from 2013, its utter Crap. On my 2018 Macbook Pro it runs smoothly.

[@AnalyticalMenace]

Watching this from my Firefox browser as we type.😎

[@blondebomber-qo2uy]

I love this channel ❤️

[@byrons8956]

In my early Amiga and Linux days, I used Usenet and Mosaic. The Web became useful when I switched from ISDN (expensive over-cap limits) to DSL speeds.

[@alexhajnal107]

08:32 *The sound of the dialup, pictured* (windytan)

[@dmtribaltyphoon5001]

I dare ya to talk about Nortel canadas Internet company that went down HARD

[@PoxyBear]

@@dmtribaltyphoon5001 I still adore Nortel office phones. I need to own at least one just because. 😄

[@alexhajnal107]

How about the Nokia/Microsoft fiasco?

[@tarkov_6]

Pretty sure the top 3 are only there because they come pre-installed

[@rigocolas]

I'm watching on a fax Machine

[@notsyzagts7967]

Interesting. I've been watching on payphones.

[@rigocolas]

@@notsyzagts7967 lowl

[@alexhajnal107]

@@notsyzagts7967 IP over avian carriers is the way to go. [RFC 1149]

[@alexhajnal107]

IP over avian carriers. RFC 1149

[@rigocolas]

@@alexhajnal107 yes

[@michealmorrow1481]

I used Netscape until almost the bitter end. I never used Internet Explorer unless forced to for something specific that required it. I still use Firefox with some use of Chrome, now. I guess I really like the old Netscape paradyme. I surely don't use Edge. I delete the ICON anywhere I see it and can't stand the pestering it serves up.

[@theblackratexplores]

wow so there are cone heads!

[@BlueBoxRevan]

I was almost to young to even use the internet when it first came to be. On dial up. By the time it took off it was like an alien world to me I didn't much care for. Little did I know the internet was in its infancy and I was watching history unfold before my eyes

[@jorgezarco9269]

1990's internet was so slowwwwwwwwwwww!

[@siliconinsect]

Opera was good enough we actually bought it -- after pirating version 3.

[@vpolite1]

Netscape was pretty expensive, $80. Microsoft was free. Marc Andreeson made out pretty well. He became a Silicon Valley VC billionaire.

[@alexhajnal107]

That was mostly for site licensing though. As best I recall there never was a charge for personal use (or if there was the terms were so lax that it was effectively free; i.e. the installer was available without charge on their FTP server). Edit: Just checked, it was USD39 for personal use (from time-to-time it was gratis for non-commercial use). The only difference between the versions was an *N* suffix on the gratis program's version number.

[@ALCO-C855-fan]

You forgot Opera GX at the end bro.

[@notsyzagts7967]

Opera is currently in last place (6th) of all major internet browsers worldwide. Even Samsung's mobile internet browser is ahead by a little.

[@alexhajnal107]

Opera also uses the Chromium rendering engine. They ditched their in-house codebase about a decade ago.

[@ALCO-C855-fan]

@@notsyzagts7967 Have never used it anyway myself.

[@michelle_pgh]

I was dragged kicking and screaming from Netscape to internet Explorer. Eventually Netscape just couldn't properly display web pages with newer features at the time and I had to change reluctantly.

[@kurtpena5462]

I don't remember ever having to pay for Nescape!

[@robthegobbler]

Switching to firefix eventually, fuck chromium!

[@Manny082]

Netscape was a leap forward compared to AOL. AOL only gave services like email, ISP provider, basic chat functionality, news, etc. Netscape opened up the internet in ways we are still doing today. I wish we could have an extension so we could have that netscape feel, but i guess no one else would get the reference to Netscape unless it was written in the description.

[@IorekByrnison086]

Man. Now can you do AOL next? Thabk you.

[@annajohnson5779]

Please please please do AOL next. I second this.

[@IorekByrnison086]

@@annajohnson5779 🙂

[@Brian_rock_railfan]

@history in the dark please make more about trains like steam locomotive 21 in Astoria, Oregon 🚂👍 & maybe about the Astoria 🚋trolley to and maybe port of Tillamock bay railroad in Oregon 🛤?

[@0fficialdregs]

ONE OF THE OGS

[@JamesAllmond]

oh, my employer merged with AOL too, was, yeah, that company, a freaking mess that was for everyone involved. Was a good day when they took AOL off the doors...

[@dingo7055]

I remember by the time Netscape became an absolute bloated mess, we kids all nicknamed it "Nutscrape"

[@wesw9586]

Ahhh Nutscrape. It got you there but there was some pain along the way.

[@MK-of7qw]

I still use Firefox.

[@invokeshakmeier4392]

Hell yeah!

[@cobraspottedwolf8791]

I used to dial bulletin boards

[@fabricatedego]

I don't get the love of Chrome, every time I use it my PC's cpu temp jumps up several degrees, where Firefox doesn't. I've quite content on Firefox.

[@HistoryintheDark]

Chrome is fast, but it's definitely a resource hog like no other.

[@fabricatedego]

@@HistoryintheDark it is, that's why I don't get the love.

[@annajohnson5779]

This is why I only absolutely use Chrome only when it won't work on any other browser.

[@fabricatedego]

@@annajohnson5779 same

[@fattiger6957]

I used Netscape for a long time back in the day. Probably too long, considering how buggy my PC became...

[@KairaSuperSayan93]

I still use Firefox on my computer every now and then. Edge though, that's the worst browser I've ever used

[@Losaru]

As I always say, Edge is just Explorer under a different name. Aside from maybe a couple of things, it ain't much different.

[@alexhajnal107]

@@Losaru Pretty sure that Edge is a clean codebase.

[@PanduPoluan]

Edge is Chromium-based.

[@PanduPoluan]

Firefox gang is truly represented here 😊

[@SnowDiverDragon]

Man I wish Firefox was more popular. It’s just better then the top 3 above it

[@mink99a]

Why does noone speak about XUL , which was the reason for the stability, performance and overweight issues ?

[@LatitudeSky]

Was using Lynx looooong before Navigator was a thing. All Netscape really did was put a pretty face on the exact same stuff Lynx could retrieve. But Lynx was great when connection speeds were slow. Netscape was not. The side effect from Netscape becoming THE app to have, and then IE fighting it, was to make everybody aware that they actually did need broadband. Yes it is thanks to early bloated web browsers being so slow that we got companies throwing money at cable modem and DSL infrastructure nobody had needed before.

[@notsyzagts7967]

Yes, but the average person was unaware of Lynx, along with its inconvenient interface so that's a moot point. Even if browsers stayed lean, what type of internet would we have today? It's pretty much a guarantee that phone companies would've introduced significant internet service price hikes over the years as they did with standard phone service. People would've still needed faster-than-dialup speeds once high-resolution images and video streaming became a thing. Doubtful average users would like dealing with external launchers for those things anyway. Corporations would've "infrastructed" internet service one way or another. The form is ultimately irrelevant.

[@Tornado1994]

You were on the Internet in 1993?

[@BreakingNVain]

Netscape Navigator was IT...until Firefox came along

[@nnaji10]

Is this Caleb Hammer?

[@blanebeats8647]

She Net on my Scape till I fail to develop.

[@ammarnapata2193]

So Firefox is Netscape? Interesting

[@DesielRiggz1]

So if my knowledge from living through the 90's and using Macintosh(Apple)computes, Microsoft computes, and now Android devices with a little Apple I can only assume the following: Edge(Internet Explorer) = Microsoft owned Safari = Apple owned Chrome = Google(Alphabet) owned Fire Fox = Independent company (not Google, Microsoft, or Apple) All of the above sans Fire Fox put their Internet browser on their OS at least half the time alongside Chrome so one would think the "most used" ranking would be skewed in the OS developers favor. Just a thought.

[@YetAnotherGeorgeth]

You certainly know how to trigger nostalgia in us millenials!

[@Firevine]

And now in kind - Firefox was usurped by an inferior browser, then completely ruined.

[@kennethmaynard5046]

I got a Netscape cd I wonder if's worth money? $$$$$$ I can dream

[@Hiker77-dc5bg]

They don't have Netscape anymore?

[@michaelseymour7211]

Mozilla Fire Fox?

[@Saucy840-]

Love you bro but these pictures an videos are kinda eh

[@RustyWells2]

They're from the early 90s dude wtf 280p at best!

[@Austriantrainguy]

Trains?

[@BalooUriza]

Wow, revisionist view of how good IE was and how bad Netscape was in the 90s there. I've been on the internet (of which the web is a part of, not interchangeable with) since 1992, before either IE or Netscape existed. And I remember when IE came out, because it was __immediately__ a joke.

[@annajohnson5779]

and on some platforms like the mac, IE was never NOT a joke even for the short time that it existed on there.

[@BalooUriza]

@@annajohnson5779 IE was always a joke on every platform, be it NT, 9x, Solaris or Mac.

[@Tornado1994]

@@BalooUriza IE wasn't super buggy, unstable and crappy as hell like Netscape was.

[@CAPTDILLIGAF]

First, what’s with the “ rules “? Aren’t we civilized people here? If not, then so what. I started with Web Crawler, went to Netscape and finally settled on Safari even though it is powered by Google. I have never gotten a virus using it.

[@RunicSigils]

Safari is not Google. Safari and Firefox are the only relevant ones that are not Google at this point.

[@CAPTDILLIGAF]

@@RunicSigils Safari’s search engine is powered by Google and has been for years.

[@dragasoni]

Funny, I always thought it was called Nutscrape Aggravator.

[@BrokebackBob]

All the people that hate Microsoft are just jealous gurl. Has it occurred to anyone yet that Netscape was built on top of the windows programming kit? 😅

[@alexhajnal107]

Netscape was cross-platform from the start (Windows, Mac OS, and Unix/Linux).