HMS Erebus - Guide 066

[@RayyMusik]

“... engines about as reliable as a politician’s promise”. :D

[@spookyshadowhawk6776]

Say's it all doesn't it? I love this Channels Humor!!!!

[@ncrailfan2528]

big facts

[@gauravbharatha9110]

Oof

[@hpoelies]

British humour is the best!

[@scootergeorge9576]

@@hpoelies - Just a bit drier than their gin.

[@adrianrutterford762]

My paternal grandfather served on HMS Erebus during WW1. My dad told me that he said that his father had a fairly uneventful service except for the time he was flung across the deck by a German attack. Thanks for the super informative video.

[@Nastyswimmer]

Franklin's ships HMSs Erebus and Terror which were lost in the Arctic were originally bomb frigates, built for coastal bombardment, just as the later Erebus and Terror were. They were chosen for the Arctic expedition because their hulls were extremely strong to withstand the shocks from the huge mortars that they originally carried

[@51WCDodge]

And both had very succesful voyages to Antartica.

[@edwardteach3000]

Welllll, at least we finally found them!

[@benwilson6145]

There is a Mount Erebus a volcano in Antarctica. HMS Terror was the barracks in Sembawang Singapore.

[@51WCDodge]

@sgfhk321 Both had very distingushed carrers as Scinetific Vessels. Micheal Palin's Book Erebus is very good.

[@Jonwallachio]

Good bloody point

[@philipjooste9075]

Erebus was actually purchased through lease by the Union of South Africa prior to the outbreak of WW2, and became HMSAS Erebus - intended to bolster the seaward defences at Cape Town. She was oddly to be manned by Army artillerists and designated "Erebus Heavy Battery, Coastal Artillery Brigade". Her departure for Cape Town was intentionally delayed by Churchill (First Lord of the Admiralty at the time) because of South Africa's uncertain position in the imminent war. Whilst training in the UK, a mini-mutiny broke out under her South African crew who were then repatriated, and the plan cancelled by mutual consent between the RN and SA Government.

[@josephkane825]

Wow, Philip Jooste, - Now that is a bit of history I would like to see on a "History Guy" video! It sounds like it is evidence of England's and Churchill's pre-war machinations to start something!

[@lukedogwalker]

@@josephkane825 I don't think it's evidence of any such thing! Just because Churchill (and many others) could see what was about to happen and took precautions against it DOES NOT MEAN they were trying to cause it! If you take out fire insurance for your home does that mean you intend to start a fire?

[@josephkane825]

@@lukedogwalker Making a new battleship, cruiser, destroyer of frigate would have fit the "If you take out fire insurance for your home does that mean you intend to start a fire? " category. However, making a class of ship designed mostly for shore bombardment sure indicates a different kind of planning.

[@josephkane825]

@@T_Hoog ; If South Africa had the same saber rattling history of Churchill and the French and the Germans, the logic would apply. However, with all the other immediate pre-conflict political machinations by Churchill now de-classified and published in several books, I repeat my assertion and stand by it. It was not an ocean going capitol ship that could save the British form the U-boats. It was too early to consider it for any D-Day type landing support. There was certainly no need for it in the first years of the war, and it would have been rather obsolete in a few years. I guess it could have been used as some type of beached forward artillery island to extend the reach of shore gunnery covering the Channel approaches. However, this upgrade is too early for these ideas.

[@markgrehan3726]

@@josephkane825 Erm I think the point is that Churchill etc. didn't feel it was in the countries best interests to give a warship to a potential enemy. There was no need for Churchill or anyone else to make any pre-war machinations in an effort to start something as Hitler was doing that perfectly fine by himself.

[@TimothyPaigeChambers]

Erebus was my Dad's first ship when he was called up in 1940.

[@leepateman3407]

Tim Chambers my grandad served on the Erebus,

[@leepateman3407]

My grandad served on this ship

[@primaveranz]

My father served on her too but not until 1945. I have always loved monitors, they are so full of character.

[@eightyones]

My father served on Erebus as well, from 1942

[@bchandler872]

My uncle was killed on Erebus 1943. No record anywhere of this or any other casualties.

[@WarThunder-zt4xw]

Thankyou for posting this! My Uncle was in the American merchant marine in WW2 and his ship was along-side a Monitor at the invasion of Sicily. The Erebus must be it!

[@jyralnadreth4442]

The US Navy would probably buy one of these right now...after the failure of the Zumwalt class to replace the Iowa class in NGFS. The US Marines miss having BB grade Naval guns backing them up

[@mossbergmaniac1947]

They are hurting, they have even been playing around with strapping himars on to the flight decks of amphibs.

[@clintlarvenz2570]

Well we have 4 Iowa class worth of 16 inch guns (minus 3 damaged and repaired for display only on Iowa) that could be put on anything else. Not to mention a couple South Dakotas and North Carolina

[@bigmac3373]

ngl a zumwalt class ships radically redesigned to fit the Iowa's 16 inch gun would be amazing

[@CorePathway]

HIMARS is the game changer. Ships are expensive to build, fuel, crew, maintain. Cheaper and easier to simply spam HIMARS and suicide drones.

[@scottmccrea1873]

@@CorePathway Ah, yes, true. But they provide an endless amount of "consulting" gigs for the well-connected. And shares of the defense contractors, no doubt, end up in the accounts of various brothers, children, spouses, cousins of congress critters, senators and DoD officials... In short, ain't gonna stop building ships any time soon.

[@EdGeyy]

Seems like quite a positive and useful career for such a bizarre class! Good show!

[@johnparrish9215]

I will bet firing the main guns really rattled the dishes in the galley.....lol

[@HaydenLau.]

And undoubtedly the brains within the skulls of the seamen on board

[@jyralnadreth4442]

Paper plates only lol

[@spikeyflo]

I knew John Cowling who was a lieutenant on the Erebus. He had enlisted from Australia in the RN in about 1938.

[@Poisonturtle44]

Don't know if my comment will ever be read, but here goes: Hey! Great videos! I just discovered your channel earlier today and have already breezed through nearly half of your 5 Minute Guide videos, they're excellent. I do have one request though: I know you already briefly mentioned her in your video on the mess that was HMS Agincourt, but I would love a video on my personal favourite ship of all time, HMS Eagle. She's very special to me, as my grandfather served on her during the war, up to her sinking, and I would just love to see more people learn about the most wondrous carrier of the Royal Navy. If you can't or don't want to, that would be quite alright, and I will still continue to watch your videos nonetheless. Thanks!

[@Drachinifel]

Poisonturtle44 happy to oblige, I will add Eagle to the list in the next video :)

[@perotekku]

HMS Erebus also served in the Battle of Madagascar, she really was everywhere between her launch and the end of WW2

[@petesheppard1709]

A bit late, but thanks! I read Douglas Reeman's 'HMS Saracen' more than once, so I'm glad to see more information on the RN's ocean-going monitors.

[@sigmckone]

Love that book! Was thinking of while watching this.

[@lawrencelewis8105]

@@sigmckone I read that over 40 years ago when I was in the navy. He had some good stories.

[@albertoswald8461]

Reeman only passed away about a year or two ago. I ate up his books when I was a teenager!! Fun reads!!

[@davidmoore1253]

4:33 A houseboat... with 15" guns!

[@BillFromTheHill100]

A man's home is his castle.

[@hanselsihotang]

Taking "personal home defense weapon" to another level.

[@rogerwilco2]

I'm surprised how much action they saw all over the world, given that these are slow and not very well armored ships.

[@williamt.sherman9841]

honestly naval bombardment is one of the most common uses for ships with large guns and these ships were more disposable so it made sense to use them a lot.

[@51WCDodge]

The hulls were cheap the guns not. So build a tank to float the guns on. It won't be going anywhere without a heavy escort

[@williamt.sherman9841]

@@51WCDodge the hulls were NOT cheap. "so build a tank to float the guns on" Do you realize that tanks guns- big tanks mind you the biggest heavy tanks of ww2 had 1 gun which is smaller than a typical destroyer which had normally 4 or 5 such guns.

[@51WCDodge]

@@williamt.sherman9841 Tank dos have another meaning you know. As in large metal box that flots on or is used to contain liquiid or gas. Get a life.

[@paulstreet9162]

@@williamt.sherman9841 HMS Victory had as many guns at Trafalgar as did Wellington at Waterloo. The difference being Nelson had 27 ships of the line.

[@gdsuperstar5657]

my Grandad was on the monitor, hms Abercrombie at the salerno landings in italy ... very similar to this class , think the other ship in the class was HMS Roberts ! he was my hero , served on the Renown, covering malta convoys, fast minelayer the welshman going to Russia......... ended up a gunnery instructor at whale island , and when he came out of service , worked in Armoury in chatham dockyard........ what a man !

[@benlaskowski357]

Do more on these, Drach. British monitors are a quite overlooked group of ships.

[@chandlerwhite8302]

Man, those things turned out to be downright useful!! This is why I love your channel, Drach. Had no idea these ships existed.

[@Lazarus1095]

Well, on the bright side I'll bet their crews did not get stranded in the Arctic and preyed upon one by one by a demonic snow yeti.

[@daleeasternbrat816]

I had known of the existence of these ships but very little detail. Thanks again for the perfectly presented information!

[@richardvonpingel2379]

I have always been curious about the monitors records in WWII. thanks

[@rampantrelichunteruk666]

Superb channel love the uploads and the history behind the ships Top job 😎

[@Rytops]

*When the Infinite Darkness hits*

[@joshuaolejasz9590]

lol

[@fdsdh1]

I always thought these ships were a bit terrible, but they actually seemed to have performed well in their intended role, and the fact they were repaired each time suggests the RN liked them quote a lot.

[@Riazor1370]

This was a true hit and run warship. After the big guns being fired its recoil move the light ship backward, away from the incoming enemies.

[@sophiepaterson7444]

With so much service and so many engagements, it's a shame these ships aren't more highly recognised.

[@iannordin5250]

That's the fate of workhorses unfortunately.

[@peterblood50]

The gun even looked larger because it was the only one on the ship. A very cool video.👍

[@seagriffon1016]

I remember seeing another similar ship to these named HMS Roberts. It was kept moored in the Tamar Estuary near Devonport in the mid 1960's.

[@jimtroyful]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Roberts_(1915)

[@FERRARIDOUG355]

VERY INFORMATIVE- Glad you posted it

[@kyle857]

I love monitors for some reason.

[@robertsullivan4773]

I do too strange LOL

[@ginnrollins211]

You should do a video on the Lord Clive/General Wolfe class monitors. If you thought the Erebus had big guns, three of the Lord Clive ships had a big 18 inch gun placed on the stern.

[@johnstark5324]

Thanks for the info, I have never seen these "great big gun thing ships" before.

[@bigblue6917]

Thanks for that. I had heard about the monitors but i did not know any real details. Many of those spare guns were used as rail guns in WW1 by the Royal Navy who were trying to find a use for them. Then they generously gave them to the British Army, who really did not want them either. I think some survived until WW2 when, out of complete desperation post Dunkirk, they were brought back into service until equipment levels were brought back up again.

[@RobMcGinley81]

Ever since reading the awesome novel "HMS Sacren" as a kid I have been fascinated by this type of ship!

[@colonial6452]

Me, too!

[@petesheppard1709]

@@colonial6452 Three!! Actually, 'HMS Saracen'

[@danmohan9932]

me three

[@sigmckone]

Great novel, me.four

[@patricklenigan1650]

@Drachinifel, these videos will certainly serve me well in designing ships in Rule The Waves (2), whenever I end up getting it!

[@nosaltadded2530]

These ships are facinating.

[@johnking6252]

Two giant guns on a moveable platform, looks formidable. 👍

[@lukedogwalker]

Love this video. Always like to hear the stories of the quirky fringe ships that nevertheless inspire the imagination. Shame they didn't preserve Erebus: she'd have been a much more imposing presence in Portsmouth Historic Dockyard than little M10. If they had kept her, just imagine the arguments all the battleship reactivation nuts would have enjoyed having over her relative merits as a modern NGFS and cruise missile platform compared to Iowa!

[@bigships]

That would be amazing

[@GrumpyAustralian]

Thinking of one of Douglas Reeman's books, I wonder how these ships would have coped against any naval vessel?

[@Drachinifel]

The only point of reference we have is the ex-Goeben vs the 14" monitors, it didn't go well for the monitors.

[@DavidBrown-cp2vm]

As always, very interesting. Many thanks.

[@johncook3125]

Good video. I enjoyed it. Douglas reeman wrote a book about one of these. They were supposed to be terrible at sea.

[@justsomerandombirdwithinte5896]

Damn. these ships were just... Beautiful!

[@stevebryans5972]

My Father served on the Erebus, February 1941 to September 1944 then transferring to HMS Victory September 1944

[@RobTzu]

She did her duty. Nice ship.

[@ricksadler797]

Looks like a cool fishing boat

[@DeerHunter308]

They both had surprisingly useful careers.

[@trevortrevortsr2]

My dad was 19yo and on Erebus at Utah beach on D Day though only spoke of it once and with great sadness

[@itsjustbabuuche721]

Trev S my grandfather was the navigator during many years including ww2 and Utah he had pics of it firing its 382 MM Guns

[@trevortrevortsr2]

@@itsjustbabuuche721 My dad said at Utah they had two captains one the regular Brit and another American to coordinate with US beach forces

[@itsjustbabuuche721]

@@trevortrevortsr2 my grandfather was the regular Brit and later was promoted to Lieutenant but he never told me about the american. He never really told me how it ended which makes me kind of sad that it was scrapped

[@trevortrevortsr2]

@@itsjustbabuuche721 My dad said he went up on deck for a "pipe" (Smoke) and saw the bodies of young Americans gently floating by then the gun went off and the vacuum sucked his last bit of backy out the pipe - he also recited that one of the new heavyweight bunker buster shells exploded in a barrel - he was a stoker 2nd class - his job was to report bearing temperatures to the chief engineer

[@MsZeeZed]

Maybe this design could be a more useful interpretation of the Jeune École? Have a swarm of destroyers armed with battleship guns surround a the enemy’s battleships. Well it doesn’t sound any worse at least.

[@warrenlehmkuhleii8472]

It is like someone read at lot about ship design, talked to ship designers but never saw a ship.

[@rolandfelice6198]

What do you know about the use of 'Gunboats' in WWII. I am particular interested in the 'Ladybird' a British gunboat used in support of Tobruk. My father told me he was a Naval Rating during this engagement but nothing more.

[@Drachinifel]

Roland Felice the British had a whole range of small coastal support ships whose stories are usually quite underappreciated except by those who benefited from their fire support.

[@johnbeaulieu2404]

The HMS Ladybird was an Insect-class gunboat built during WW1. Armed with 2-6" guns. Between the World Wars she served in China on the Yangtze River and was engaged by Japanese artillery. She also helped rescue survivors of the USS Panay in 1937 with her sister HMS Bee. She was sunk in shallow water of Tobruk Harbor in 1941.

[@grahvis]

Roland Felice There is a book on the history of the insect class 'called Armed With Stings' , by A.Cecil Hampshire that's worth a read.

[@williamchamberlain2263]

I've nothing to add except my appreciation of the amazing knowledge and erudition of the people following this channel. Makes me quite teary-eyed.

[@jakemillar649]

Even with a relatively small Monitor, the British can't help the need to put a "Queen Anne's Mansion" bridge on. Maybe more or a "Queen Anne's House".

[@zombiehero1442]

Was there any particular reason why the 15 in turret was in the superfiring position?

[@Drachinifel]

The gun turret and barbette were designed for a much larger ship, putting it lower would've had it stick out the bottom :p On a more practical note, it also allowed for greater elevation and therefore range.

[@zombiehero1442]

@@Drachinifel That makes sense, thanks!

[@shawnchung5336]

Uh actually that’s due to the arrangement of the powder and magazine rooms under the turret en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_15-inch_Mk_I_naval_gun

[@dubsy1026]

@@shawnchung5336 yeah that is what he said

[@ZacLowing]

@@Drachinifel when you do videos on things that look that odd, I figured you'd mention it in said video, lol

[@alt5494]

Since when has the the British royal navy ever been concerned with the crew voluntary coming aboard!

[@turdferguson4124]

I’d never heard of these ships. Interesting. Weird looking but certainly interesting.

[@kevinhoffman6592]

nice job on history lesson .

[@bradgross3487]

I love these 20th century monitors

[@billrich9722]

Interesting concept.

[@jamessullivan586]

Now that's what you call getting a lot of bang for your buck

[@Yosemite-George-61]

Man, what a war record! What a value these ships where. I would be so prous if I served on a ship that saw combat in the 2 wars...

[@theflorgeormix]

Great looking boat

[@MonkeyJedi99]

the image at 4:40 had me pause the video. Is that a HOUSE on the deck forward of the guns?

[@davidgifford8112]

Thanks, are rare case of "a good buy" with tax payer money

[@eltlaw]

While in the Baltic, in 1919, HMS Erebus engaged infantry at the range of 3,500 yards and over open sights. Her fire broke up the infantry in short order.

[@Wallyworld30]

Wow, that 18" Gun hit a target from 36,000 yards (20 Miles). It holds the British record longest distance of hitting a target of it's type. The target It was on land somewhere in Belgium.

[@cameroncaulfield4281]

This is what I feel like is what would happen if you were to get an air craft carrier and rebuild it to be a battle ship

[@diamondcreepah]

these ships have fascinated me for a while. like, Who cares how strong the armor is? Who cares how good your defence is? *_when you can destroy the enemy before they spot you_*

[@bobjackson4720]

Amazing how they could build things so quickly, utilising today's systems it would probably take 10 years to design and build something similar. How would WW2 have gone if each fighter cost $100 million and took a decade to build?

[@haihengh]

most of the modern ship cost is at the electronics and missiles system, not the ship body itself. look at the drone ship program, the idea is obvious to save money on crew cost, but also building a single propose ship is much less expensive than developing multi functional ship like the LCS, the result of LCS are rather meh, because they are neither multi functional nor cheap.

[@5000mahmud]

Modern weapon systems are expensive because of their capabilities. That's the trade off. It can be good, fast, and cheap, but you can only have two!

[@spider0804]

Whats up with that picture @4:38, looks like the buildings are ontop of the ship, the front building even blocks the turret barbette.

[@kenoliver8913]

She was just a cadet training ship at this stage, never actually firing her guns.

[@Nick-rs5if]

I play World of Warships a lot and not gonna lie. These in tier 1 or 2 would be nice :D

[@jugganaut33]

Can you imagine the logistical might of building multiple classes of ships from spare guns. Then having MORE spare guns just to replace the spare guns you put on spare gun ships. Ludicrous.

[@5peciesunkn0wn]

Not so much logistical might as it is 'building stuff for quickly cancelled design plans'.

[@kenoliver8913]

Not really. You had a pretty standard hull and engines, so most of the custom work was only on the superstructure.. The lack of need for speed, heavy armour or manouverability made them quite quick and easy to design and build. But they were never the type of ship that was loved by her crews.

[@DRNewcomb]

The club at the naval base on the north side of Singapore is named for HMS Terror.

[@GrahamCStrouse]

At 4:38, why is there a house in front of the turret?

[@Drachinifel]

This was during her interwar period as a gunnery training ship, the house was to accommodate the trainees.

[@johnyarbrough502]

2:03 future review of the the role of the naval poultry coop? Seriously, just what sort of provisioning wold be required for a vessel making 12 knots en route to Singapore? One long haul or provisioning and fueling along the way? Freetown? Capetown, Colombo?

[@Nastyswimmer]

Reminds me of a story my dad told about escorting a couple of WRENs around HMS Rodney. One of them pointed at one of the (top secret) paravane housings and asked "what's that for?". "That's where we keep the chickens" he told her. She pointed to the other one and said "I suppose that's where you keep the sheep then". Rodney had a reputation (undeserved, I can assure you) of being crewed by sheepshaggers

[@trooperdgb9722]

I cannot even look at a picture of one of these without immediately thinking of Douglas Reemans book "HMS SARACEN"....lol. Can't find my copy.....I had better start looking online for a replacement!

[@bigships]

If we couldn’t have preserved a battleship we should have preserved Erebus instead so we could have an example of a big gun ship.

[@paulstewart7529]

Hmm Roberts I saw parts of her in Devonport (the main barrels which had been cut up for test weights

[@benwilson6145]

One of her 15 inch guns is at the Imperial War Museum.

[@kalebross6033]

Imagine the Erebus having a turret with 2 20.1 inch guns...

[@biscuitninja]

I've actually seen a gun of that size.... It was a stubby 38 cal though.

[@GrahamCStrouse]

HMS General Wolfe mounted to 12 inch guns and one 18 inch gun from the Furious.

[@hajoos.8360]

The anti-torpedo-protection seems to be necessary, for firing the 15 inch guns. It might had happend to push the ship under water by the blowback.

[@kenoliver8913]

Drach mentioned how they made the ships very stable gun platforms. Those bulges cleverly served three purposes - antitorpedo, allow very shallow draught and stabilise against recoil. Must have made docking them a nightmare though.

[@stevedaniels3661]

Had a few drinks at Club Terror in Singapore back in 2010, Semper Fi

[@joemerican5781]

All in all this pair appear to have been remarkable VFM. I can’t help wondering how accurate those guns were in practice.

[@lipsee100]

In the diagram (2,08) behind the funnel there is a Poultry coop,, did the navy like fresh eggs that much?

[@Knuck_Knucks]

Wow. An actual 5 min guide. Who knew???

[@benrutgers6329]

Recently discovered this channel and have been bingeing the great content. Have you done anything on Canadian destroyers?

[@ArcanisUrriah]

3:10 - is that Valleta?

[@illuminaticonfirmed2240]

Thanks that was quite interesting. I have a suggestion for two ships you could review. How about the apex of battleship design, the super battleships Musashi and Yamato of the IJN.

[@Diego-zz1df]

Yamato will come in a few weeks after Prinz Eugen, according to the schedule.

[@illuminaticonfirmed2240]

Oh I see I didn't realise there was a giant list in the description. OK that's good I'm looking forward to that one.

[@l.h.395]

I always saw those ships in the game "sudden strike" and I thought they were just a design by the developers because it looked so odd. I am rly surprised.

[@chrisanderson5317]

The USA had at least monitor during the Spanish War, but i don't know if any more were used.

[@MarcStjames-rq1dm]

'would have made a good museum ship'....... I always think that when you end with, ".....and then she was scrapped."

[@chrismaguire2510]

Leander & modified Leander class light cruisers.

[@maconescotland8996]

Is anybody else having problems with the photo at 4:32 ? Maybe I need to visit the local optician !!!

[@OhYeaMista]

What is going on at 4:39....?

[@arneklausen8989]

have you told the story about the monitor with the 18 inch gun, and the story about the origin off that gun ?

[@florinivan6907]

'earlier monitor Marshal Ney' what is it with anglo-saxons and naming ships after former enemies? The US has had the controversy over confederate named ships but the UK as well has sometimes named ships from historic enemies.

[@alamudesky1959]

LAST OF THE GLOW WORM CLASS

[@Diego-zz1df]

Aww, ur so smol and cute bote!

[@rachelcarre9468]

The turret seems extraordinarily high giving her top weight problems (see I have been paying attention), Was this a deliberate design or simply the result of having to accommodate a battleship sized turret on a small ship with a shallow draft?

[@diogenesegarden5152]

I was Christened in Terror in Singapore, only my Terror was a stone frigate, not a floaty one:-)

[@bigbob1699]

How come I never saw a plastic model of these ships?

[@model-man7802]

Check out Trumpeters HMS Abercrombie and her sister.Both in 1/350 scale and easy to find on ebay.Not sure about 1/700 but I would certainly think so.

[@themadhammer3305]

Model- Man I've yet to see any 1/700 scale versions of this type of ship, the 1/350 HMS Abercrombie you mentioned is the only one I've seen

[@model-man7802]

The Mad Hammer yes google 1/700 Abercrombie.I just did and lots of stuff just popped up.Follow you nose from there and good luck.🍀

[@themadhammer3305]

Model- Man yay more interesting ships for my 1/700 fleet :), thanks for the heads up my dude happy modeling

[@model-man7802]

The Mad Hammer you very welcome.!

[@paulstewart7529]

mystery ship HMS Roberts i believe a monitor part of her guns where cut up for test weights for the cranes of devonport dockyard still there today any one have any information

[@xvdd1]

Surviving the entirety of the war, the vessel was eventually decommissioned and sold for scrapping after being stripped of all of her useful components. The British Navy held little interest in a 1940s-era monitor and many-a-ship held the same fate in the massive post-war drawdown. She was scrapped in 1965 after a notable career - though one of her 15" guns was salvaged and presented at the Imperial War Museum (Lambeth) in London as a permanent showpiece.

[@KittyMurphy-w6f]

My grandfather served on erebus as a midshipman

[@ysvry]

great informative series. the ideer is sound they should be deployed in groups of tens only :P