HMS Orion - Guide 410

[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@vikkimcdonough6153]

When attacking moving ships with high-altitude level bombers (as the USAAF and RAF were both so fond of doing against enemy capital ships), wouldn't it be more effective to drop aerial mines in the enemy ships' paths rather than try to hit them with conventional bombs? With conventional bombs, all the targeted ship has to do is change course so that the bombs hit the sea instead of the ship (and don't hit the sea too close _to_ the ship) and then you're good to go (as demonstrated by the almost-nonexistent success rate of these attacks), whereas with aerial mines not only does the targeted ship have to dodge the falling mine, but they and everyone else in their fleet now have to _continue_ to avoid the spot where it came down, theoretically allowing high-altitude bombers to force the enemy fleet to choose between steaming in a disadvantageous formation and direction or hitting mines.

[@willpat3040]

Hello Drach. Question. When the Iowas fired the Mark 13 1900lb HC shell it had a shorter range then the 2700lb AP shell. Could you explain why? Shouldn't the much lighter shell, fired with the same powder charge have a longer range? Odd thing is the same HC shell had a longer range over the same AP shell when fired by the North Cal/SoDak. Why would it be the opposite between the different guns? Also, the 2240lb Mark 147 Extended Range HC shell that was being worked on was heavier than the old Mark 13. Why would being 340lb heavier help it have a longer range?

[@jasonbrannock1698]

Can you do a video on the liner Europa?? Would love to know her history. Love your work. F 🐺🐺🐺🐺

[@nikujaga_oishii]

Has there ever been any reluctance/opposition to the use of 'foreign' mythological names like Orion, Bellerophon, Hector, Hercules, etc to name RN ships? I feel like other countries' ships often have more....nationalistic names - for example, it'd seem pretty strange if there's an Italian cruiser named Thor or something like that

[@stevevalley7835]

@@willpat3040 I don't understand the physics involved, but I have read that a heavier shell retains it's momentum longer.

[@JGCR59]

HMS Thunderer is still one of the coolest warship names ever

[@N0rdman]

The Orion class is among the top five most balanced and elegant British Dreadnought designs, at least to me, together with HMS Hood, HMS Tiger, HMS Erin, and HMS Queen Elisabeth.

[@stewy62]

The short lifespan of most British dreadnoughts of this era takes some digesting.

[@45641560456405640563]

Especially given their cost.

[@rob5944]

@@stewy62 the pace of technology, but yes, it's mind blowing.

[@Guangrui]

switch from coal burning power to oil burning power was part of the reason

[@rob5944]

@@Guangrui I'm guessing they couldn't all be converted?

[@genericpersonx333]

@@rob5944 More the USA finally presented the British Empire with a geopolitical rival who could actually build a bigger navy on a small percentage of its GDP, and the resulting Washington Naval Treaty didn't leave enough tonnage for Britain to keep many battleships with less than 15-inch guns. Without the treaty, it is probable Britain would have kept most of its dreadnoughts, including HMS Dreadnought, for about twenty to thirty years after launch, relegating them to the Reserve or lesser duties where their limited firepower and protection would be less of a liability. Basically how the Royal Navy had always treated their Ships-of-the-Lines.

[@kylecarmichael5890]

My earliest Drach view ever. RIP HMS Orion, you bought your crews home. The penultimate duty of a ship.

[@Sherwoody]

Only 1,980 people beat me.

[@williestyle35]

​@@Sherwoody I know the feeling. Only 2 486 viewers beat me.

[@hisdadjames4876]

What’s a warship’s ultimate duty, then? To prevent the enemy ship from bringing its crew home, or making a trip to the breaker’s yard?

[@Sherwoody]

@@hisdadjames4876 in the case of HMS Warspite, it mostly did both.

[@kevinpresley3136]

9,053 viewers before me and we all enjoy his videos.😊❤🎉.

[@JTilesEverything]

Every time I listen to a guide on British ships I can’t help but admire just how much better the Brit’s were at naming their ships than the USA.

[@bjturon]

Very handsome vessels. Four of these ships would have made a creditable and magnificent core to any second-tier navy after WW1, Brazil, Thailand, Spain, etc...

[@JGCR59]

I think the Washington Naval Treaty forbade the sale of dreadnoughts that were to be discarded to other nations for fear of them being resold or the buyer nation being so closely allied it de facto would circumvent the treaty

[@kevindolin4315]

"they would also be the first British battleships since Lord Nelson and Agamemnon to have all their guns on the to have all their guns on the center line, which I'm sure induced a measure of sarcastic slow clapping from people like say the US Navy" The joy of watching Drach's videos is that you get an excellent measure of both well researched history and finely honed snark. The best of both worlds.

[@mattwilliams3456]

Drach was the only creator that could consistently convey snark and sarcasm with even the old robovoice narration.

[@stanleyrogouski]

British Dreadnoughts in the 1910s were a bit like digital SLRs in the 2000s. No sooner did you spend the money for the latest and greatest than you realized it was obsolete.

[@gbcb8853]

HMS EOS 300D?

[@JGCR59]

Re ship's boats, this was also the reason the Royal Navy stuck so long to the forward funnel being in front of the Foremast. It made for more convenient crane arrangements and boat handling. That might sound stupid but ship's boats had a much greater role back then as they have now. Warships, especially battleships, hardly ever moored pierside except temporarily to take on heavy stores like coal or ammunition. Normally when in port, they were at anchor or moored to a mooring buoy. It guess this was a carry over from the old days when desertion of pressed sailors had to be prevented. So ship's boats were the main source of communication and transport of supplies and personell to and from the ship.

[@notshapedforsportivetricks2912]

Thankyou! That is the most reasonable explanation which I have heard for this otherwise looney configuration.

[@johnfisher9692]

It really shows just how fast the pace of naval development was when such powerful ships were declared obsolescent barely a decade after entering service.

[@paulrichardson6804]

Not only do I admire the Orions like others commenting, but when I was studying for NZs Ocean Yachtmaster course with Coast Guard I bought a beautiful and robust sextant - from an antique dealer - it turned out to have originally been owned by Commander Richard Horne , of HMS Orion, and who was mentioned in dispatches for his conning of the vessel at Jutland ( attested by the material that came with it) … so feel an attachment ( back then we had to learn astral nav as well as taking gps )

[@stuartaaron613]

You can see that the lessons of the placement of the foremast on the Dreadnaught hadn't been learned when these ships were designed and built

[@williestyle35]

Yep. One of the (few) things Admiral of the Fleet Jellicoe wrongly insisted on in the "dreadnought era"...

[@dukenukem5768]

@@williestyle35 You mean Jellicoe insisted that the funnel was before the mast? Why? PS : I see others have answered - to facilitate boat handling.

[@williestyle35]

Last time I was this early to a Drachinifel "5 Minute Guide to Warships",.. the _Orion_ class of "super dreadnought" battleships was still a dream of Admiral of the Fleet John Jellicoe, 1st Eral Jellicoe. Too bad these great ships still continued the design of putting the spotting tower *behind* the forward funnel.

[@mbryson2899]

Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

[@nonpasprenompasdenomnonplu423]

@@0ld.Richard Einstein never said that, as far as we know. And really that notion would be very foreing to a physicist whose experience is that it take considerable know how, astuteness and trial and effor to get a goddam exepriment to yield consistent results.

[@mahbriggs]

And open sighting hoods on top of the turrets!

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

Yes. All these old friends from my days playing Avalon Hill's _Jutland_ . I was in Jr. ROTC in High School and me and my friends played a lot of Avalon Hill Games. For someone who would go on to get a MA in History these games were fascinating in their display of historical maps, units and equipment. .

[@mikeynth7919]

I still have that game.

[@montecarlo1651]

I have quite a few AH games still decorating my bookcase.

[@mikhailiagacesa3406]

First of the "Supers"; absolute joy to play in WoWs. Makes you feel like Nelson! As an American, I promise I won't slow clap. 13.5's all the way.

[@George_M_]

Slow clap is appropriate given South Carolina's relative speed.

[@BalshazzarWastebasket]

imagine that you were a naval geek like us all here in this channel, but living in the 1910s and seeing something like this coming online every two months in either the uk or the other countries..oh the laughs we'd have about the russians, oh, the drulling that will go in france..

[@glenchapman3899]

Well Drac's channel would probably only go up to the time new fangled smelly ironclads arrived.

[@level98bearhuntingarmor]

4:22 an astern underwater torpedo tube? Sounds like the Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts balancing trick is in real life too, also great names for a Ship class

[@adamkerman475]

I've been waiting for an Orion guide for some time now! Thank you for delivering once again Drach!

[@GrahamWKidd]

Even more bounty of the Drachinifel... We live in bountiful times. So Drach we all!

[@niclasjohansson4333]

Its nothing short of AMAZING that the British managed to produce the number of capital ships during this period!

[@michaelgurd7477]

Back when we could mine coal, make steel and we had a shipbuilding industry. Try and build anything like Orion now and we would not have the workforce with the required skills or aptitude to work in any of those 3 industries; oh and the WOKEforce would go into overdrive about CO2 emissions and environmental concerns.

[@starrionx1]

@@michaelgurd7477 Most of these ships only fought once at Jutland. Think of how much money went into building, crewing and operating a couple dozen dreadnoughts for decades for one or two one day engagements that ultimately decided nothing. Most of the high seas fleet sailed to Scapa flow intact.

[@jec1ny]

@@michaelgurd7477 We are beginning to have the same problem here in the US.

[@slome815]

@@starrionx1 And why do you think the high seas fleet didn't dare directly challenge the royal navy during WW1? The blockade of germany was absolutely a decisive factor during WW1.

[@genericpersonx333]

In fairness, Britain had the wealth of a quarter of the known world at its command. Despite limits on how much wealth could be extracted out of parts of the Empire without risking rebellion, the British Empire was rich and smart enough to know that it could only stay rich if it could control all the world's seas all the time.

[@Angrymuscles]

One of my favourite looking and performing ships of the era. Revolutionary and evolutionary at the same time.

[@StuartPeacock-e2t]

Shows the acceleration in Weapons,warship design and the effect of treaties cutting short their careers,not to mention the state of Britain’s economy.

[@grantk1820]

I tried looking for a Drach vid on the Orion last weekend. I just showed up early!

[@williamgreen7415]

Thanks!

[@Nemo-vg7sr]

Interesting Drac hasn’t mentioned the main flaw in the Orion class. More so because the only real improvement in the following KGV class was precisely correcting that flaw. The flaw was obviously that,quite stubbornly, the British put again the mainmast behind the fore funnel, as they had done in several previous dreadnought classes. This arrangement of course made the spotting top a living hell full of hot gases and just impossible to inhabit when in battle (i.e. impossible to use when it really matters). The reason behind was that the Admiralty had had this clever idea of using the vertical leg of the foremast tripod also to work as a derrick to handle the boats. And when you have such a smart idea you keep using it and using it. So the British built several classes of battleships with such an arrangement, including HMS Dreadnought herself. By 1912, after carefully listening for 6 years to the complaints of the capitains of those ships, it dawned on some of the most brilliant minds in the Admiralty that maybe they had had their priorities all wrong: maybe using the foremast to have a working spotting top when fighting the enemy is, after all, more important than using it to lower the boats when the ship starts sinking. After all, alternative arrangements could be found to lower the boats and, who knows, maybe using the spotting top when fighting will even make unnecessary to lower the boats…

[@Noble713]

I liked Dr. Alexander Clarke's videos on the family of 13.5" dreadnoughts.....gave very good context on how the Royal Navy essentially spamming these ships was what really showed how the Germans were hopelessly outclassed in the dreadnought arms race production-wise.

[@coolawesomeepicman4513]

Orion seems to have suffered a similar fate to the HMS Dreadnought, a future class template for many ships after her, but nothing more than a footnote to her overall significance due to their short service careers. A new design rapidly made obsolete due to every ship class built after her being an improvement of the Orion class, specifically the King George V class, and especially the Iron Duke Class.

[@OtakuLoki]

A rather niche question: would the paddle wheel tug showing in the foreground of the photo of the hulk of HMS Monarch at 06:49 be considered an example of a Tyne-built paddle wheel tug like Reliant or Eppleton Hall? And if so, is there any way to determine the name of the tug in question?

[@silviuilie3518]

Thanks

[@dukenukem5768]

@ 4:40 This photo is in the Ian Allan book of British warships of WW1. It identifies the ships in the left background as the American squadron in the North Sea. Those do look like cage masts.

[@randomperson3187]

A New Drachinifel? truely a great day

[@akula9713]

Beautiful ships, a real menacing look. Love it.

[@raygall6353]

My local pub is named after HMS ORION.

[@jec1ny]

The first of the five ships I called home during my time in the navy was the USS Orion (AS-18), aka the onion. Alas, long since gone to the scrapyard. Memories...

[@hankbirmingham6662]

Always love to hear from Drachinifel on Naval ships of any origin!!😎 Glad you have enjoyed multiple visits to our continent as of late…🇺🇸🔥 Please stay safe and healthy and continue with your outstanding work and input on Naval vessels of any sort!😇🇺🇸🔥 Love everything you do! Keep it up!🔥🇺🇸

[@panderson9924]

One of my favorite battleship classes ever, thank you Drach for the video.

[@VoreAxalon]

I adore these warship briefs you make

[@brookeshenfield7156]

Aloha and Mahalo for your excellent work!

[@freddyvejen743]

Thank you for this video. What are the tubes that run in an oblique angle from the deck to the lowest port holes ? seen at 2:08 and 3:43

[@chrissouthgate4554]

They are the stored booms for ant-torpedo net, used when ships are at anchor

[@Dave_Sisson]

@@chrissouthgate4554 Don't tell him that. I enjoy telling people that they oars to be used if the inefficient ships ran out of coal.

[@HerrPolden]

A question for the drydock; If one classified battleships in generations, like one presently does with jet fighters, what would the generations be? Starting with the first steam powered ironclads, which generation would the dreadnought be? would the Orions qualify as a step, or a x,5 like 4,5 current, non-stealth fighters?

[@jrd33]

Jane's Fighting Ships of the era did this, with the current latest and greatest being 1st Rate ships and so on. From Janes Fighting Ships 1906-7, the British battleship fleet is classified as: Rate I: Dreadnought, plus 2 ships under construction; Rate I-II: 2 Lord Nelson (under construction); Rate II: 8 King Edward; Rate III: 2 Queen, 3 London, 3 Formidable, 2 Swiftsure, 6 Duncan; Rate IV: 9 Majestic, 6 Canopus; Rate V: 7 Sovereign, 1 Hood, 2 Trafalgar. The system extended to cruisers and smaller ships down to Rate IX.

[@agesflow6815]

Thank you, Drachinifel.

[@jamesmchenry4708]

4:17 What were the "ruler" markings on the superfiring turrets on the ship in this image for, and why were they painted black? Is this some form of testing thing?

[@williestyle35]

Good question! Both the fore and aft super firing turrets have those markings. I can't recall seeing something so defined, on any previous turret paint scheme...

[@dannyhonn973]

Bearing indicators for ships ahead and astern who couldnt see the enemy, so they have an idea where to shoot. Same idea with range clocks.

[@stujm84]

Looks like the speed check on a turntable. Maybe it's also to ensure the turrets turn at the correct speeds of 33/45 rpm depending on what they were playing?

[@philiplaidlaw]

My favorite BB in WOWS, such a beautiful ship.

[@thinaphonpetsiri9907]

Again, those folks on the mast would have spent quite a time cleaning soot off their uniforms. Seriously, what’s the benefit of putting the mast right behind the forward funnel if you knew those guys on it would have become a smoked ham?

[@williestyle35]

This is something only Admiral of the Fleet and RN "Controller" John Jellicoe would answer for (as he kept insisting on this layout).

[@T_Hoog]

It meant the tripod could support the boat crane, rather than have separate cranes. To me, boat-handling having priority over fire control suggests a mindset stuck in peacetime.

[@MichaelCampin]

Yea its Saturday and a new Drach video, not for Jago Hazard, Geoff Eats, Just Greeno and Just Deano before Paul Whitewick on Sunday. Perfect weekend.

[@barelyasurvivor1257]

Thank you for another great military history lesson.

[@daguard411]

Thank you.

[@matthewrobinson4323]

Awesome video. You refered to us giving you a slowclap, which sparked this idea/request: could we please have a side by side comparison of the USN and RN ships, by type. Battleship vs battleship, cruiser vs cruiser, destroyer vs destroyer, etc.

[@lewiswestfall2687]

Thanks Drach

[@jackhaffenhoff1365]

The other HMS Orion, nice. Standing by for some info the next ship of her name. My grandfather server as stokers mate on the later cruiser during Crete.

[@nineonine9082]

Favorite ship just about ever. Though when you talk about a ship being used for target practice, I wonder were these ships also used as practice for repair crews? makes sense to my head logic, but perhaps it is not that smart.

[@0garyh0]

I’ve always wondered what the diagonal poles on the sides of many of the dreadnaughts

[@AndrewTBP]

This is asked repeatedly. They're supports for anti-torpedo nets.

[@JGCR59]

Lord Nelson and Agamemnon had their two main turrets on the centerline but their substantial 9.2 inch secondary battery in 4 twin and 2 single wing turrets so no centerline battery either

[@lablackzed]

Would love a section on the loch tarbet and other loch ships .

[@peterschorn1]

Ah, Thought "superdreadnought" referred to the superfiring turrets, which were new. But it's just a superelative. Thanks!

[@starshine_project]

I love how pretty the orions are

[@timsimms65707]

Thanks to the Washington and London treaties many men went to war on ships not best suited to their roles. Captain Fagen of the Jervis Bay should have had an old Dreadnought to defend the convoy not an armed liner, hindsight I know a what if. Those old 13.5" ships would have been worth a lot in WWII as convoy escorts, shore bombardment ships, and of course as training, depo and harbour defense ships. The RN always kept their old battleships around for as long as they were of use...damn those treaties anyway for they did nothing to prevent WWII, they achieved quite the opposite result in my opinion. Peace.

[@SmilefortheJudge]

I’m thirsty. More square cube law mentions. It’s a game you always win.

[@Bob.W.]

Thanks.

[@simongeard4824]

Yeah, I was looking at models of HMS New Zealand in the NZ naval museum today, and the turret layout of ships of that era does look weird to my eyes.

[@andrewparle9183]

I keep hearing about capital ships with submerged torpedo tubes, but were any of these actually used in battle?

[@Mwolfi400]

Great video! Please please please review HMS Canopus (1897) Please please please 🙏

[@Wolfeson28]

6:35 Thunderer essentially pulled the same trick as a dog going limp and flopping on the ground to avoid going to the vet.

[@prussianhill]

A question for the drydock (I cant find the linked post anywhere). Drach, do you have any recommended books specifically dealing with Operation Sealion? I understand that it remains a cancelled military operation, but I would imagine that the hiatorical interest in Sealion and the interest in wargaming sealion should result in at least one or two good books on that operation (and British preparations and the subsequent wargames).

[@treyebillups8602]

I had to look up the "we want 8 and we won't wait" campaign. I can't imagine putting any energy into trying to get my government to build *more* warships in an already dangerous arms race. I suppose arms control treaties were looked down upon as unmanly during that era

[@moodogco]

Out of interest what are those 45° angled down strips of metal all down the sides of the older British dreadnought class ships? I've always wondered but haven't heard an answer to what there actual purpose is or function etc?

[@AndrewTBP]

They're supports for anti-torpedo nets.

[@niclasjohansson4333]

Was the Orion class the first ships to be equiped with FC computors ?

[@douglastarbox7640]

Very handsome vessel.

[@malcaniscsm5184]

Ahh, a glass of red wine and a new Drachinifel guide.

[@orionstrehlow6816]

This video speaks to me...

[@toddwebb7521]

So which jump left the previous more outdated Colossus to Orion or Iron Duke to Queen Elizabeth?

[@gordonclark7632]

The term 'scrapping' sounds so depressing for ships that served their country with some scrapped so soon after the cessation of hostilities. I wonder some times if the Washington Naval Treaty was a short sighted agreement as the approach to the Second World War left the allies behind when Germany started to re-arm along with Japan especially one they withdrew from the Treaty.

[@mattwoodard2535]

When the USN finally went to tripod masts, it was the RN's turn to do a slow clap. 😁 sm

[@Inkslinger123]

Jarrow is just up the road, amazing shipbuilders on the Tyne and Wear now gone forever

[@JevansUK]

Closure of palmers was devastating to the town

[@admiral5113]

Is there a difference between heavy and armored cruisers?

[@laudennis8633]

Heavy Cruiser is a turn invented by the treaty system. Ships with main guns over 6in(155mm) and up to 8in are heavy cruisers. But of course not everyone signed and followed the treaty so there were 180mm guns light cruisers

[@williestyle35]

​​@@laudennis8633 "heavy cruiser" included ships *with* 8 inch guns (or at least so I thought Drachinifel said in the most recent drydock...).

[@Spidd124]

"heavy cruiser" just identifies the caliber of the guns on the ship, namely they are above 203mm. Armoured Cruiser is just a warship designed to be somewhat protected against fire equivalent to the ship itself.

[@williestyle35]

"armoured cruisers" were generally of the pre naval treaty era (as commented above), and varied a bit from country to country.

[@jrd33]

"Armoured Cruiser" basically just meant the ship had an armoured belt. In the 1905 Russo-Japanese war, there were armoured cruisers as small as 3000 tons up to over 12000 tons, which were larger than some of the battleships of the day. In general, armoured cruisers were heavier and better armed than the protected cruisers of the day, so you could call them "heavy cruisers" as long as you are aware there were exceptions (Chiyoda was an armoured cruiser with only 4.7" guns).

[@redtob2119]

HMS Orion in World of Warships is a beast

[@aprilwhitemouse1593]

Yay, HMS Thunderer! ♪

[@johnarcher8156]

Can you do a report on the ww1 German destroyers in Portsmouth harbour

[@mikebrase5161]

I was a Seal Clubber in World of Warships in HMS Orion.

[@rob5944]

The 12" gun was unreliable then?

[@willardpatterson706]

The RN 12” 50cal was unreliable, yes. It’s why the RN generally stay away from any gun over 45cal going forward.

[@rob5944]

@@willardpatterson706 in what regard?

[@MattVF]

@@rob5944accuracy from what I can remember. Dispersion was poor. I believe that they suffered from barrel droop (wire wound remember) and relatively high rates of wear.

[@willardpatterson706]

@@rob5944 yes Matt’s response is correct. Accuracy and dispersion were issues. Too bad. It put a “bad taste in the RN’s mouth” for higher cal guns. This lead to even the 14” guns on the KGV and even the (never built) 16” for the Lion class to only be 45 cal. These were powerful guns but could have been even more powerful if they were 50 cal.

[@rob5944]

@@willardpatterson706 ah I see. I thought he might of meant jamming or interlock issues.

[@stevevalley7835]

Seems so wasteful to scrap ships that were relatively new. But, considering how much the USN spent on it's older ships, converting to oil fuel, adding bulges and deck armor, it was probably the more sensible move. Apparently the Admiralty did not spend much on the Iron Dukes, until they went to the breakers a decade later.

[@jrd33]

Building ships is a one-off cost; maintaining, updating and crewing them costs every year. No-one in Britain wanted to spend money unnecessarily in the 1920s.

[@stevevalley7835]

@@jrd33 quite so, though running costs would have been reduced by putting some ships in reserve. The USN spent a considerable sum modernizing obsolete BBs into ships that were still obsolete. I have seen numbers in the range of $118M, cited by a Senator, in 1930, who was advocating the US not sign First London, and use the money to build new, effective, ships, instead.

[@notshapedforsportivetricks2912]

Thete's nothing like a kippered fire control crew to get a battle off to a flying start.

[@dannyhonn973]

Drach...only fire spotting top on tripod where it.got smoked out? Bad design. Surprised you didnt mention it. Also, didnt Thunderer test the gun director system?

[@MattVF]

On testing the theory Thunderer did. Orion didn’t for comparison. Thunderer conclusively out shot Orion in the experiment

[@thestarwarsmusiccomposer3491]

You should do one on the Obscure russian Destroyers of WW1 might be cool

[@bigsarge2085]

👍👍

[@vojtechslezak4553]

And wouldn’t you know it, the 1st SuperDreadnought is here.

[@CurtisWebb-en5kh]

Still kicking ass.

[@ricardokowalski1579]

good content

[@Bananaskin101]

My favourite of the 13.5 inch battleship classes.

[@blsteen1831]

My nephew will be super excited to have one of the warships that he shares his name with featured. Well he’s two, so his mom and dad will be! He has pictures of both the RNs WW1 and WW2 Orions hanging in his room. A good ship and a good class. Thanks Drach!

[@tallboy2234]

I’ll go rhythm! 👍😀

[@AdamosDad]

Dammed Washington Naval Treaty!

[@leftcoaster67]

HMS Orion was built and commissioned before Titanic sank. It's a pity the HMS Orion wasn't visiting Canada and the US and in the vicinity of the Titanic when she struck the iceberg. I wonder if more lives would have been saved.

[@bkjeong4302]

The first of the superdreadnoughts .

[@williestyle35]

Indeed. What do you think of the somewhat short life span many of these pre WWI large battleships? I myself find it rather a waste that the "battleship arms race" had used so many resources, for little fighting effect.

[@bkjeong4302]

@@williestyle35 Still better than the WWII fast battleships that ended up entering service in the carrier era.

[@nicholasberris6246]

ya know, ive noticed that royal navy ships have other ideas when it comes to the process of being scrapped

[@JokeFranic]

state of the art 1910-obsolete 1920...

[@stujm84]

Probably not even state of the art by 1914 given how much of an improvement the Queen Elizabeths were on them, such was the pace of development at the time.

[@davidg3944]

I love a ship that make the scrappers pay...

[@jimpollard9392]

All with that foremast just behind the forward funnel. The top would be unusable much of the time.

[@AWMJoeyjoejoe]

Yeah but it would just be the ratings choking up there. The officers on the bridge had nice clear air to breathe.

[@Aelvir114]

Wait…Monarch, Conqueror, and Thunderer…sounds familiar…