Hobbits | Explaining Their Birthdays and Customs

[@MenoftheWest]

Happy Hobbit Day and well done buddy! This is such a fascinating topic that shows just how much depth there is to even the smallest (pun intended) kindred!

[@TheRedBook]

Thank you, and happy Hobbit Day to you! I agree, and it's a shame some of this information is hidden away in places people may not find it. Glad to share it though :D

[@GirlNextGondor]

Always a delight to see more appreciation for the Letters! Especially #241, where we also learn the tragic fate of Lalia the, uh, "Great." I like that Nunn leaned into Tolkien's game of calling himself a "recorder" rather than an author. Instead of saying, "hey, man, you contradicted yourself," he tactfully approached the discrepancy from an in-universe perspective. Whether this was an actual mistake or something that Tolkien had in mind all along, being forced to reconcile the two points creates a much more complicated and interesting situation than taking the easy way out. I can think of other examples like this (like the Two Glorfindels problem) where Tolkien has more fun writing his way out of a hole than he would by simply saying, "The source material must be in error." Thank you for an enlightening video! Happy Hobbit Day!

[@TheRedBook]

Haha yes, Lalia, it sounds like drama from Downton Abbey when you think about it! I've always liked Tolkien's approach in that regard. I especially like it when someone asks something and he doesn't know. Tolkien had the right to just make up anything he wanted and sometimes he was just like "We don't know that". It's such a fascinating way to approach the creation of the Legendarium. The Glorfindel point is an interesting one, and it's taken further with someone like Celeborn. I can imagine Tolkien sitting for a while pondering what the hell to do with Celeborn, with each change just making him more confusing. Surprised he didn't just say "The recorder failed, we don't know enough about him!".

[@istari0]

When you read through the various versions of Tolkien's writings and how sometimes what appears to be the later versions don't fit together as well as earlier versions, it definitely gives me the feel of reading the work of a historian trying to figure out the true story of the distant past.

[@DorkLords]

Happy Hobbit Day, Red Book!

[@TheRedBook]

Hey, I thought I was Steven now? :D Happy Hobbit Day to you, I will be checking out your video and some others this evening!

[@DorkLords]

@@TheRedBook My bad, Steven! 🙂

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Well done as always! This is one that confused me when I was younger but of course a simple exercise in logic shows that while there was a custom of giving small gifts on one’s birthday, nowhere does the text imply the custom of receiving gifts was not also observed.

[@TheRedBook]

I suppose it could have been less confusing if people hadn't moaned about a long prologue. That letter is a gold mine. Still, imagine being able to write to Tolkien directly to ask this sort of stuff!

[@Enerdhil]

@@TheRedBook In our dreams.....😌

[@stevedenis8292]

Sméagol/ Gollum being a split personality I wonder if his demanding the ring was more akin to him talking to himself. Demanding he give himself this ring as a birthday present for Gollum from Sméagol thus being the birth of Gollum.

[@TheRedBook]

Happy Hobbit day. I Hope you enjoyed this video about Sméagol's birthday and Hobbit customs. I always enjoy exploring Tolkien's letters and other sources that aren't discussed as often on KZbin. I had another couple of ideas about suitable videos for Hobbit Day but I'm sure they will pop up at some point in the future on the channel!

[@BenFrayle]

Happy Hobbit Day!

[@MistaGify]

I didn’t even know Hobbit Day was a thing! A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one. But I must say, my explanation for the birthday contradiction is that traditions change. To say it wasn’t included because it wasn’t relevant, because the author is roleplaying as a chronicler of real events long past, is a copout. At least this is a very minor issue in the story…

[@TheRedBook]

@@MistaGify Oh yeah, I get that. Though I tend to think Tolkien is saying just because he didn't write it, doesn't mean it's not the case. He then assumes that role of the Chronicler to make it fit. I don't have an issue with that kind of solution personally.

[@annaroselarsen4218]

Happy Hobbit day!

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

Very nice video. I really liked the reading of the quoted passages and the dive into some of the details!

[@TheRedBook]

Your video is on the playlist, I will be checking that out today, good to see you here. Thanks for the kind words, I thought I wouldn't have enough to say about this to make a video but I am happy it has turned out alright :D

[@ThePhilosophersGames]

@@TheRedBook haha yes I know what you mean, but Tolkien always surprises me with the amount of thought an detail one can uncover. Pretty awesome that you could uncover so much.

[@TheRedBook]

@@ThePhilosophersGames - I just can't get enough of the letters and the explanations he can give to so many questions. I can't imagine just how much more we'd know if he was still around to give us more details!

[@VoiceoftheRings]

Happy Hobbit Day! Awesome Video!

[@MiddleEarthLore]

Honestly, you should do an audiobook of your own! You speak so calmly and explain so thoroughly! Good work! Happy Hobbit Day friend!

[@TheRedBook]

Happy Hobbit Day to you. I'm happy we are collaborating. As for an audiobook, kind words, but I think me reading an audiobook would perhaps be best for inducing sleep for insomniacs like myself 😂.

[@istari0]

I have to confess I never thought of this as an issue. Receiving gifts on one's birthday is such a normal thing in our world and indeed in fictional worlds I have read (if it comes up at all). I always figured the Hobbits of the Shire simply had some different customs from other cultures, including those of other Hobbits who lived long ago and far away. But this is just the sort of thing Tolkien thought about that makes his world feels so very real. Thanks! Also, congratulations on hitting the 1K subscriber mark!

[@TheRedBook]

I can see why they thought it was an issue when the text highlights giving gifts, but, as you say, that certainly doesn't mean they don't also receive them. I'm glad it was asked if Tolkien as it meant he has given us so much information that we may never have received. And thanks! Glad I finally hit that mark. I'll be able to use community posts soon. Appreciate the support and you've been around since just around the time the channel started!

[@oshkeet]

Ironically I think it's perfectly fine for a birthday custom to change over a couple hundred years (which is how old smeagol is) in the real world, but I think we've been trained by the story to expect traditions to not really change over long periods of time.

[@LeHobbitFan]

A surprising and interesting topic for sure! Happy Hobbit Day, mellon!

[@TheRedBook]

Happy Hobbit Day Jo, good to see you once again!

[@keyboarddancers7751]

Wonderful sense of movement in your presentation of an excellent selection of illustrations and very interesting indeed to combine the subject of Hobbit birthdays with a mild focus on Sméagol/Gollum.

[@TheRedBook]

Hello again. Yeah, when I was editing it, I noticed there was an abundance of picturesque Shire scenery images and I wanted to make them a bit exciting to look at. I have been sitting on a script about Gollum's birthday for a while so it seemed like the perfect time to make a video about it :)

[@pahpatree597]

Loving your channel & I'm glad I found ya. Keep up the amazing work my friend. Greetings from Northern California & Happy Hobbit Day!

[@TheRedBook]

Nice to hear from you, happy Hobbit Day to you too and I am glad you are enjoying the content!

[@rickythe2nd63]

This video is deliciously dark, and heavily laden with such meticulous, wonderful detail. Love it! Thanks for the upload. Glad I subscribed!

[@TheRedBook]

Thanks for subscribing and I appreciate the comments on the video. I didn't mean to make my Hobbit Day video dark...I promise ;) !

[@alexshadowfax1119]

Very interesting, I never thought that Gollum was lying about it being his birthday, I always assumed they both give and receive gifts. It does make me think though, you have the ability to ask Tolkien any question you want and you ask about this topic? I guess I shouldn't judge, but to have that gift of Tolkien writing a letter to you in regards to any topic? That would be an amazing gift.

[@TheRedBook]

Some of the questions put forth to Tolkien are indeed strange but I'm glad they are varied. Nowadays, he'd just get a million letters asking why they couldn't use the Eagles or asking what Tom Bombadil is 😂. It would indeed be such a gift. I'd have so many questions.

[@laughingtolkien]

Amazing video Steven! The letters indeed are a gold mine ^̮^

[@Enerdhil]

I never saw that birthday inconsistency as an issue because I think the Stoors and their ancestors lived a much more difficult life, with possible enemies nearby. The concept of giving presents to others on your birthday can only come from a society that is extremely peaceful and well-to-do, which I believe most Shire Hobbits at least had more than than needed and had stuff they could give away to make room for the new stuff they would get later. Shire peace was provided by the Dunedain Rangers. The Stoors were not far from Dol Guldor and Easterlings would come to the south of them. Their safety and prosperity were not guaranteed for hundreds of years. The Shire Hobbits may just be the most generous beings in all of Arda, including the Valar😠.

[@TheRedBook]

That's an interesting way to think of it. We don't tend to think of the possible hardships of the Stoors being so close to dark lands and without the protection of outside forces.

[@Enerdhil]

@@TheRedBook True. We don't think about how much Iluvatar loved the Hobbits of the Shire either. They were the most blessed of all the races, IMO.

[@istari0]

To take this thought a bit farther then perhaps this custom did not begin until sometime after the end of the Angmar War.

[@Enerdhil]

@@istari0 That is possible, but I have always felt that the Shire was always protected whether by Eru himself or the Rangers. They sent archers to fight in wars but those wars were not in the Shire itself.

[@istari0]

@@Enerdhil The journey the hobbits undertook to move to the Shire was certainly a perilous one and when they arrived and received permission to settle in the Shire the Angmar War was still going on. I agree there's no reason to think the Shire was invaded during the remainder of the war but they were certainly aware of the conflict and as you say sent folk to fight in it. I think the custom of giving gifts to others on your birthday would have been more likely to start once an extended time of peace arrived.

[@timbotook6447]

Great video, my friend! Thank you for the deep dive into the customs of the Hobbits. It is a shame that anything was cut out of the published works, but I am thankful we have so many letters to exam these issues. Happy Hobbit Day, it is good to be in a collaboration with you!

[@TheRedBook]

High praise from a Hobbit. Thanks for watching. I very much enjoyed your video (which I watched before it was public (whoops)). Happy Hobbit Day to you :)

[@Enerdhil]

I enjoyed watching your video on Bilbo the Barrel-rider.😀

[@timbotook6447]

@@TheRedBook haha, no problem. Like you said, it was a bit of a backstage pass!

[@timbotook6447]

@@Enerdhil thank you, and Happy Hobbit Day!

[@geschaftsmanngeschaftsmann6891]

Oh yeah, how sinister are birthdays per Smeagol.. The scary thing is, how similar are our customs to these? Great points, as always!

[@Loreseekervids]

Awesome work!

[@Aurora-qn2dx]

Fantastic video! Happy Hobbit day 🧙🧝🏻

[@TheRedBook]

Thank you :) Happy Hobbit Day to you!

[@ferrishthefish]

9:33 I don't see an implication that the gift Deagol had already given was insufficient... Just that it did not compare to the One Ring.

[@TheRedBook]

Strange thing to call out. I'm speaking of Deagol's claim that it was insufficient. One of his excuses for wanting the ring. I'm not actuall saying the gift was insufficient...

[@IanHeins]

Nice work dude thanks

[@reflectiverambling1148]

What a fun and even a bit tongue in cheek take on the day itself as a prompt! I absolutely had forgotten about the birthday custom and never even thought twice about Smeagol's claim! Wow do I feel foolish, but I absolutely love how you've laid this out and the contradiction! Do hobbits have a genetic fear of the water? Or are Shire hobbits just afraid possible because of a story/history/tradition? As you say traditions vary across space/time. I REALLY enjoyed this! Thanks for contributing to the day!

[@TheRedBook]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it. As for the fear of water, well I wouldn't say genetic, i'd say cultural. "A Conspiracy Unmasked" does point out that the Bucklanders were not different from other Hobbits except that they were fond of boats and some could swim. This tells us that in general, Hobbits can't swim and don't like boats. We see this later when the Company leave Lothlorien. So, it won't be genetic, it will be from experience living near water and maybe working with water. Most Hobbits probably stay clear of deep water and have no experience of it and over generations it becomes something dangerous and feared. Smeagol, as a Stoor, lived near water, and clearly had no fear of it either!

[@reflectiverambling1148]

@@TheRedBook Thank you so much for taking the time to clear that up for me!

[@Marcus-ki1en]

I wonder if Smeagol's people were still living in the area where he found the ring. Also with the shire tradition of gift giving, what an opportunity for re-gifting. That is a tradition in my family with a particularly heinous gift making the rounds with my family members to the great delight of all.

[@annamnatsakanyan4040]

Excellent and very informative, as always! :) I admit I never paid attention to this, but then you never stop discovering things in Tolkien's world. I can't wait for my Nature of Middle-Earth to arrive, though I will then have to decide what to read first: it or The Full History of the Hobbit? :P

[@TheRedBook]

I'd recommend Nature of Middle-earth, the chapters are quite short and it was surprisingly easy to just read through, even if it is dry material. It's well put together. I'd go for that first then dive into the History of the Hobbit.

[@annamnatsakanyan4040]

@@TheRedBook Noted, thanks! Congrats on hitting the 1K views mark for this video, and 1K subscribers, and a belated Happy Hobbit Day! :)

[@TheRedBook]

@@annamnatsakanyan4040 Thank you, Happy Hobbit Day to you too, thanks for the continued support!

[@annamnatsakanyan4040]

@@TheRedBook It's always exciting to talk Tolkien with like-minded people.:) And discover them where you least expect it. Fun fact: not long ago I was travelling to Greece for study and discovered the three volumes of you know what on the bookshelf in our AirBnB apartment in Thessaloniki. I was thrilled, then thought our host probably wasn't that much of a fan or appreciator or he would have kept the books with himself (and been re-reading them) all the time, not left them in an apartment for lease. But it was a pleasant surprise all the same. :) Thank you for your Tolkien work!

[@HowieChicago]

happy hobbit day, i enjoy your content

[@TheRedBook]

Happy Hobbit Day, Howie. Thanks a lot!

[@Former615]

Men of the west, nerd of the ring and the broken sword sent me

[@TheRedBook]

Thanks for stopping by. I hope you'll come back for more content too :)

[@brianhelm2328]

Late to the party here but perhaps it was Deagol's birthday so Smeagol could expect a present. Given the similar names they could have been cousins, brothers or even twins with the same birthday. How much more evil is he if he killed his own brother to get the ring?

[@BillB23]

It seems that Smeagol was vulnerable to the urgings of the One Ring. Being of weak character he was ensnared. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if he lived about one millenium. NB: I'm just a guy who's read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings many times. I found The Silmarillion too dry and did not delve deeply. (Tip of the hat to the Dwarves of Khazad-dum.)

[@TheRedBook]

Hi Bill, Gollum lived until he was 589 years old and he held the ring for around 478 years (according to dates in the Appendices). He was definitely a figure who was ensnared very quickly, and took the ring in violence - a recipe for disaster...

[@blaircolquhoun7780]

Aragorn banned Men from entering the Shire when he became King of Gondor and reunited it with Arnor,

[@amandaroberts2069]

As expected, this was quite easily the best of the playlist (by a margin). I did enjoy the videos of TolkienLore and GNG though. Shame the usual basic reading of Tolkien Gateway stuff snatched up all the views as always.

[@whyukraine]

I thought it was Deagol's birthday, and Gandalf just misinterpreted what Gollum said.

[@DParks-ef8hy]

OfCourse it could have been a gift given by Smeagol to Golem and the changing of the guard. JS

[@hilarywhite2953]

Three syllables: "smay-ah-gol". Tolkien's languages have no diphthongs, meaning when you put two vowels together they don't make a single phoneme, as in the English "meat". All his vowel combinations are pronounced separately. (Which is why there's an accent over the "e").

[@TheRedBook]

Honestly, i'd rather you discuss the contents of my videos and not turn it into a pronunciation guide. I do better than most on here when it comes to names and places to be honest. As for "smay-ah-gol" . Those might be the rules but even Tolkien himself didn't pronounce it that way and I don't think you'd be correcting him if he was still around would you? :P He pronounced it as "Smee-guhl" as his recordings demonstrate...if it's good enough for J.R.R. Tolkien then it's good enough for me.

[@hilarywhite2953]

@@TheRedBook I know I know. It's just been irritating me since I saw the movies. Now of course everyone does it because Peter Jackson didn't do his homework.

[@hilarywhite2953]

@@TheRedBook That being said, you are my new favourite Tolkien channel.

[@ellanenish5999]

Right, the Hobbit Day, it is today

[@Nicumlas]

My birthday is in 22nd september:p

[@kekero540]

Sméagol bore the ring alone Frodo and Bilbo had the entire shire in support of him.

[@kraziejedi1111]

It's also my birthday!

[@TheRedBook]

Happy belated birthday

[@kraziejedi1111]

@@TheRedBook first time I read Fellowship and saw Sept 22, I knew this was going to be a story for me.... And I was right 25 years later, there is a map of middle earth seen on my wall while in work meetings

[@jman518192]

What humility to …arrogance? Ignorance? Wow. WOW, 😂 thank God it was to Ol’J and not me. You criticize, insult, and then ask for help from the creator? Of a thing I’m not delusional. In fact I think his response a focus on clarity like this video instead of a good verbal beating in the name of “true discipline in respect” is best. There now there’s a betterr rhyme considering the time.