Hobbywing Castle 5th Scale Motor Teardown

[@emryscass7327]

Just wanted to say thank you from those of us that are new to the hobby and looking to learn more about motors in general.

[@RCPhysics]

Interesting video! However, I have a couple of points for you. 1. Larger bearings do not necessarily mean better bearings. There are several grades of bearings (Google "ABEC ratings"). A smaller bearing with higher ABEC rating could have lower mechanical losses than a larger bearing with a lower rating. This is usually a cost trade. Both probably have similar rolling resistance numbers which would imply that the castle bearing may actually be a higher-end / more expensive unit. Hobbywing probably went with a larger over-sized unit to get similar performance at a lower price point. 2. Rubber seals tend to have more mechanical losses than metal seals. They do provide a better debris barrier, but that comes at a cost to overall efficiency. Side note: Most bearings (regardless of seal materials) are packed with grease that repels water, so any water that makes its way past the debris shield will probably just be thrown out of the bearing race. This means that the water (and debris) that does make itself into the core of an operating motor will probably settle into other places and begin to collect near the moving parts. So, you should probably still tear down and clean either motor periodically if you run in wet/muddy conditions a lot. 3. The difference in rotor length is important, but the overall strength of the magnets is the key factor. It looked like you had to fight harder with the Castle magnet, so is it safe to guess it was the strongest? A stronger magnet generally means a more efficient motor which will put more real-world power to the ground. Also, since you had the motors apart anyway, it would have been interesting to measure rotor weight. For example. if the Castle rotor weighed about the same as the Hobbywing, but had a much stronger magnet, that would show that Castle used a higher grade magnet material which would imply a more efficient/powerful motor. 4. Wire diameter doesn't mean much without knowing the grade of copper used and the overall winding strategy. Generally thicker wire has less resistance per length, but a thin wire made of better grade copper may have lower resistance than a thicker, low-grade wire. Also some motor makers use several strands in parallel to get the same result as a thicker strand. It would have been interesting to see you measure the resistance of the motor coils, but this usually requires a special meter since their resistances are usually really, really low. Lower resistance coils would produce less waste heat and allow the motor to pull more current (which usually means more torque and better overall efficiency). Keep up the great content!

[@ExocagedRC]

Wow lots of tech in that, I know have a whole bunch of new stuff to learn, thank you!! I do know the rubber seals add resistance but I can't see them affecting these motors and I'm assuming they are just larger all around. Whats interesting and I didn't mention it was I had an older 800kv Castle and it has the big bearings like the Hobbywing motors do. They downsized them as they were the same size as skateboard bearings. I've read about the windings a few times and have asked a few people but without specifics on the actual motor I can't really say much about them other than the obvious. I appreciate you watching and hope to hear more from you. I have a small FB group if you want to join that, I'd love to read some more tech knowledge you have. facebook.com/groups/exocagedrc/?ref=bookmarks

[@Psychopai195]

Wuoawhhhh....that's absolutely tremendous, very very many thanks for your superb tech knowledge,which one you share with us,Sir. I'm impressed 🧐....love to reed and learn more about all things i'm intersted in... and you bring one in front while doing so 👍👍👍

[@juanmarichal263]

Excellent explain, thanks.

[@MrLilredmachine]

One note on bearings that I didn't see you mention, is that considering the application that these motors are seemingly used in these days, the larger bearing is definitely advantageous as larger bearings generally deal with side loading far more appropriately. IE on a speed run car the Castle motor's smaller, metal shielded bearing (assuming it is a good grade) would be advantageous due to an (probably minute admittedly) efficiency increase. However, Landing an X-maxx upside down from 30ft and having that big old motor flex the mount and shove the pinion into the spur hard is something you want those big old bearings to deal with. Based on this tear down, a large scale basher would be hobbywing motored every time, it's going to outlast the Castle in Bashing everytime with them.

[@Psychopai195]

Very interesting Vid Mr. Exocaged, i'm excited and thank you for the look in this big engines. By the way...great Job man,very good that there are people like you! Keep on rock'n' and stay smooth'n'cool 🤘😎🤘

[@victorpadua5124]

Thanks for the technical breakdown. If I could only watch one channel, it would be Exocaged RC.

[@ExocagedRC]

I’m glad to have you bud. Whenever I put up a good video feel free to share them around.

[@Jeff-hz7xb]

After the burial intro sold me right away.

[@ExocagedRC]

Thanks. This is an old one

[@timt8029]

Hey I just calipered a hobbystar rotor and it was a whopping 27.9mm diameter. I could physically see it was larger than the castle I have.

[@justincase948]

Dam Man U always have great vids and awesome info thanks for sharing this knowledge 👍👍👊🏻👊🏻 5:53

[@ExocagedRC]

Thanks 👍

[@justincase948]

@@ExocagedRC I gotta ask … when u built up ur Xmaxx with all the vitavon . How much did that cost ??

[@rcbustanut2057]

Great vid, thanks for taking the time to make this video. I just picked up an ezrun 8 2200KV combo today. As for the wire winding, the thinner & more wound wire, the more torque and less top end speed, the thicker the wires & less wound wires, the less torque & higher end speed. So looks like the castle will have a bit more 'oomph' at take off, but sacrifice a bit of top end speed. I would love to see a comparison of the 2200kv motors of each, the 1515 castle & the 4274 hobbywing. Thanks again for the info, I will definitely send a shout out to your channel when I do the unboxing video of my ezrun 8 combo. 👍👍

[@ExocagedRC]

Awesome, thank you

[@rcbustanut2057]

@@ExocagedRCNo worries Bro, I believe in sharing knowledge and giving credit where it's due. Here's the link to my Ezrun Max8 w/4274 2200kv motor combo unboxing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqCnZ32EbLxoi5I Gave a shout out to you & your video & left a link to your video on the description below. Thanks again for taking the time to make this video, it was extremely helpful 👍👍

[@cadenkorzan]

i know that the less it is wounded means more rpm and less torque but wouldn't thinner be less resistance or would it be more? all i know is the one with less resistance has more rpm, more resistance more torque

[@rcbustanut2057]

@@cadenkorzan The resistance of a wire decreases with increasing thickness & vice versa. So thicker wire=less resistance =higher efficiency=higher RPM. The resistance of a thin wire is greater than the resistance of a thick wire because a thin wire has fewer electrons to carry the current.

[@cadenkorzan]

@@rcbustanut2057 i was thinking that, i bet you are right, i was debating from a bigger wire has more space aka more to travel through which would be more resistance, but more electrons going through would equal less resistance well ish...

[@popwall4297]

The bigger bearing doesn't necessarily make them better it's the quality of the bearing itself that means is going to last or not last

[@ArticSun]

And plastic can dry rot.

[@rey3468]

@@ArticSun also metal shielded bearings are smoother than rubber sealed.

[@ArticSun]

@@rey3468 good to know

[@gonzodetroitify]

Hey Joe @3:44 do we know or could you help me with the specs of that shim/bushing I ran 8s on 1650kv version and that part now has dimples and when placed back within the motor it now sounds like I have rice paper at certain rpm’s on bench test wouldn’t put to ground at that instance 😬I’ve looked 🥸and can not find the spec n that so I’m hoping that those cans maybe that could also be not good but maybe you know Thank you Joe 🥇

[@TheEgb18c]

The thinner the copper wire the more resistance maybe ? , So the thicker hobby wing windings may flow electricity better ?

[@ExocagedRC]

Maybe?

[@nasalsweets9110]

great video, however the best way to identify motors are by their physical size (diameter & height, example Hobbywing 56113, ...800kV motor) the kv can be the same across the board for tiny drone motors to large motors powering tesla vehicles so it confused us in the beginning. Keep up the great work man!

[@0Gonzo0ify]

I ran the hobbywing on 12s and it's a monster

[@Bawla187]

As usual great video 👍🏾🙏🏾

[@whitsrcleftovers2707]

Another nice video. Very informative. Idea, maybe kind of trace the magnet on a piece of paper and measure the lines.

[@ExocagedRC]

lol yeah something for sure, them magnets were strong!!!

[@GreatLakesRC]

Very cool video 😀 I think the 1100kv would be a good choice for the Losi Super Baja Rey 👍

[@ExocagedRC]

Oh yeah if I still had an SBR I'd have it in there for sure

[@Tugalife83]

great video bud. keep the good job.

[@bramskahoon4072]

Looks good for an e-scooter setup

[@Todd_G_FPV]

I've seen people use the 6s motors for their ride on toys before

[@badlilstang]

That hobbywing just looks higher quality overall.. I think Castle made changes on the newer 800KV didn't it?

[@Greywolf74]

Rubber shielded bearings may be a little better at keeping dirt out but metal shielded have less resistance so in terms of who win in the bearing department, Id have to say Castle does. At high RPM youre going to want less resistance.

[@lifeisgood7377]

Thanks for the great info. I purchased a max6 esc and a Hobbywing 1100kv motor for my Redcat Rampage XBE 1/5. What pinion and spur gear should I use?

[@jameshankssr466]

Was never a castle fan but i do own a bunch of hobbywing stuff! For the money i would go with the hobbywing hands down

[@andyjones357]

I got stock brushless in my slash platinum vxl system I’m just a back yard badger 2s lips my big issue is my yard has thick grass so what do I need to do to get cooler longer runs out of my slash 4x4 plat

[@ExocagedRC]

Grass is a killer for most all RC trucks, its a constant resistance. About the only way I can think of to get it to run cooler would be fans and a smaller pinion, the smaller pinion will let the motor turn easier but you will lose speed

[@krashkingrc9715]

Awesome video wow some suprises there

[@gonzodetroitify]

Joe How do you open the max6 motors please I can not remove the end bells to get at the bearings

[@ExocagedRC]

Bolts out and usually I tap on the motor shaft. That usually get the back off.

[@gonzodetroitify]

@@ExocagedRC literally just used tissue to cover the bearing race and an 8mm hex to knock it out 🎯💯🎯 thank you sooo much Joe for your help and reply 🎯🎯

[@gonzodetroitify]

It was THIS show that helped me muster up the let’s get this job done Joe awesome 🥇😎

[@2ndGenDesigns]

I would like to see you compare the hobby star motor to these hobbywing.

[@ExocagedRC]

I’ll see if I can borrow one from someone.

[@jameshankssr466]

Actually hobbystar is a rebranded hobbywing!

[@timt8029]

@@jameshankssr466 wow. I have the hobbystar 56112 and I just calipers the rotor and it was 27.9mm!!huge surprise to me. I could visually tell it was larger than my 2028. But then again, if you really look close the 2028 is smaller on the outside. I measure 53.5mm not the fine of course.

[@jameshankssr466]

Tim T yeah i’m not sure about any size Differences but i know hobbywing makes motors and esc’s for hobbyking and a lot of the rtr brushless setups are made by hobbywing but dont have their name on them

[@timt8029]

I'm not sure if it makes much practical difference but there was a noticable size difference.

[@RedRoxRc]

Good video!

[@KC_2112]

To be honest I’ve completely gone away from castle I think their stuff has gone down hill the last couple of years. I’ve had 2 esc’s go out on me with very little use and stress and the motors are decent but it just seems their quality control isn’t what it was several years ago. I switched all my big bashers over to hobbywings and have been very happy with them so far.

[@ExocagedRC]

I like the Max6 and Max5 esc's, they are really awesome basher esc's for sure, but the new castle are sensored so a bit smoother.

[@georgeschidiac9125]

What do you recommend for a monster xmaxx with trencher, i need it fast with torque? max5 with 800 kv ?

[@wolfguard1180]

I'm was looking at hobbywing for the Udr I'm building, I'll be mainly running 4s and 6s once in a blue moon. Which one should I choose?

[@xXB.FunkXx]

I have Hobbywing and Castle on multiple rc cars I have and have come to the conclusion that castle esc's are a gamble might get a good one might get a paperweight. On the other hand Hobbywing esc's are solid, can be abused and still show up for the race. Both companies have solid motors but I think Castle is a little better in the power department on motors so I started running Hobbywing esc and Castle motors. Getting to this conclusion cost me about $1000 in Castle esc's which left me with a bad taste in my mouth for that company.

[@jon98tj]

Sorry if this a dumb question. Why do these big motors have such low KV? I would have thought they would be around 4,000. Thanks

[@ExocagedRC]

That’s actually a great question. I think it has to do with overall size and rotating mass. The same wind on a 540 motor can be 2000kv but on a 550 can it may be 1200kv due to size and mass. I’m not a motor expert at all so I could be totally off base here but it kinda makes sense to me.

[@dis3nchant3d42]

Typically a larger motor is run at a higher voltage, so as an example a 4000kv motor at 12.6v would have a theoretical max rpm of 50,400rpm. A 2000kv motor at 25.2v would have a max rpm of 50,400rpm. A larger motor has more torque and increased heat dissipation so is needed for a heavier application. Because of this the larger motor can typically run higher gearing to achieve the vehicles high speed without heat issues whereas a smaller vehicle with a smaller motor with higher kv typically has to gear down due to heat and takes advantage of the higher kv to reach it's maximum speed.

[@dis3nchant3d42]

@@Shadows-RC well,, kind of like that in terms of torque, but in electric motors the rpms achieved is a function of how many rotations the motor wants to do per volt applied - so like in my example above the actual rpms achieved would be the same, but with different power curves and characteristics

[@ParRagon-]

Imagine the big magnets and the coils running on 4000rpm^^ they would blow out entire universes xD as mentioned before bigger motors bigger mass and bigger Torque and more Watts. The 1100kv has about 100watt less than the 800kv but still the 800 has more torque it could deliver at same voltage. Just a shortcut nothing in depth explained here

[@Mike62501]

You need plastic calipers from Harbor-freight

[@ChuckTownRC51]

Those are serial numbers and they're different on every individual motor.

[@lorriecarrel9962]

How is the hobbywing rotor Kevlar wrapped and castle is not...should be the other way around

[@ExocagedRC]

both are kevlar from what I know but one could be thicker or a more solid color than the other.

[@Niobium23]

Hobbywing is higher quality, great info, great vid, just made my choice easier. 👍🏼

[@trevorthomas6043]

One of the reasons castle may use a standard bearings,is that rubber bearings cause more resistance.MoreResistance more heat

[@jaysonsangcom2000]

Nice how much

[@ExocagedRC]

For what? The motors?

[@Artificial_Dopamine]

I'll take hobby wing all day, as far as magnet size don't mean much, it's the quality of the magnet. Also I've been told the castle are better for top end and hobby wing for torque, just a general assessment. I also think it was quite obvious the hobby wing was just straight built better.

[@timt8029]

Whenever I do that it sure makes me wish I had a non magnetic caliper. Some stainless is not magnetic.

[@ross.newman2716]

Thanks for the info Bro...I sub your page...

[@ExocagedRC]

Thank you

[@geejayrc9401]

If you wanna go above 8S then get the Leopard 58113 700kv imo

[@jc51373]

HW customer service is absolutely abhorent...I don't care what the quality difference wouldn't matter because they're an awful company to deal with. Castle is fantastic in that regard and their motors are excellent.

[@jaguar2164]

Less is more? Why 800vk is bigger?.

[@ExocagedRC]

For this yeah way bigger. To make them perform you need 8s and a big pinion

[@mackattack8627]

Same factory makes all them motors they make hacker as well

[@ExocagedRC]

Optimus Prime I’ve heard this same thing before. Same with lipo batteries as well

[@gangstafish25]

You are supposed to zero out after every measurement.

[@ExocagedRC]

Thats a good set of calipers and in between shots I closed it and it went back to 0 each time.

[@cadenkorzan]

thinner coils i would guess would have less resistance which equals more rpm and less torque, so i guess if both are running on 8s the hobbywing would have maybe a tab more, but then again the rotor is a tab long on castle, and the esc could have a factor to, if both motors are on the same esc and same cells i would say they are pretty equal, but the castle may have a tab more rpm due to thinner wire. one last thing is that the castle is rated for 12 cells so it will have more rpm and torque compared to the max 8 on the hobbywing. either way, both are monster motors, i know castle is about 10 hp and i bet hobbywing is close behind because of the max 8 cell. another thing to think about the castle mamba xlx is rated for 8 cells. long story short go with which brand you are more biased to i guess, or go with price

[@pabbzz9968]

Thic whires are better. Power Goes through it easyer (lower resistance)

[@RICHIE_RICH89]

Hobby wings better thicker wires better better magnet and rotors

[@TheSphongleface]

"I am not a motor expert" Case closed.

[@ExocagedRC]

Case has been reopened recently.

[@reddeerrebelrc6674]

So you cane to no conclusion

[@eugenescoj]

too often you said i don't know... about features that should be explained in a comparison video.

[@RunGMCSyclone]

eugenesco jackson if he doesn’t know he doesn’t know. Thankfully he doesn’t assume.

[@dankennedy9520]

If you dont know..then why make a video?? Total waste of time

[@ExocagedRC]

because I want to find out and learn

[@GruvenHaus]

Really? Plastic calipers are cheap. You're welcome.

[@ExocagedRC]

lol they have some metal in there too