Hobie vs Old Town Fishing Kayaks: Time To Bring Hobie Back Into My Fleet?

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There is little doubt that both Hobie and Old Town have become two of the most dominant brands in the kayak fishing industry. I've spent more than 5 years fishing out of each brand and thought I would take the opportunity to discuss these two brands and what I love and dislike about both of them.
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[@ryanlillypad]

Ryan here from Old Town - Fair analysis. Bottom line, for anyone considering brand A vs. B, I encourage folks to consider their primary application and where they plan to fish. And visit a retailer demo event to try a few out. Most kayak manufacturers are producing nice, well-equipped kayaks these days. At the end of the day, a lot of this comes down to preference and application. We obviously love it when people choose Old Town, but there are many great options out there today. We do take customer feedback seriously and use it to inform our innovation. We'll continue to evolve and produce high-quality USA-built watercraft.

[@panchopachangas4450]

I think my only issues with my Topwater 120PDL is the mesh seat being a bit uncomfortable, needs more gear track and the gear tracks being to forward for taller people(issues I can live with though).Still love my Topwater no matter what. I have never fished so many days in my life before my Old Town. I’m so happy with it that I bought my daughter the Sportsman 120PDL. She can barely reach the pedals but she’s happy with it. Then I found a used one for my brother as well for a deal I couldn’t pass up. Also Ryan you are the best in customer support. 👍

[@mengkhang1037]

Ryan is absolutely right about application. I have both a sportsman and a pro angler and both do the job as intended. Both I car top so I don't have to work with a trailer. But anyone looking to get on the water it all comes to what a person can afford. I like my old town and enjoy it more on the water than the hobie. I'm a heavy guy and both are very stable. The video does explain true problems that I've seen with owning any fishing kayaks. Key thing is do what makes sense to you.

[@thebeardedpaddler]

Well put Ryan.

[@AntLs87]

Ryan where can i demo old town kayaks live in Yonkers area 10701. Thanks in advance

[@jimmyinthaphanh2993]

I’ve owned 5 Hobies. Their quality keeps going down but prices keeps going up. A brand new PA14 360 now costs over $6k OTD

[@glpf5]

I fished from a Hobie Compass for several years with zero issues (all trolling, 4-5 days per week, 4-6 hrs per day non stop) and then passed that on to my wife and moved to a PA12 3 years ago, similar usage thus far and, luckily, no issues yet. I transport my kayak in the bed of a truck and have all my stuff lashed down (rods in tubes, tackle and cooler lashed down) and when I get back in I just roll the entire thing onto it's side, put the cart under it, roll to the truck, put the stern on the bed extender and lift the bow up and slid it in. This system works great for me as I never have to take anything off of my kayak through out the season, not even my rods that sit in the 4 rod tubes. It's not light lol (likely 140# or so with all my crap on it) but the system works for me. At home I built a rack on HD casters with locks and the kayak slides right off the truck onto the rack and then vice versa when I load up. In the winter I take everything off both yaks, put them in covers on the rack, cover the rack with a tarp and roll the entire thing outside under a tree for the winter. I love my PA because it's really made to fish, the drive, the hatches with tackle storage the Guardian Shield for the ducer...everything. I always remove my drive as I'm coming to shore to beach just to be safe. When I slide it out of my truck is displaces more water that the Tirpitz and it doesn't turn super fast, particularly in the wind but I can stand on it and fly fish when I want to as well. I wouldn't want to surf launch it though lol. Thanks Tyler.

[@kayakangler7683]

I have a Hobie PA14 and two OldTown PDL120s. The Hobie seat is much more comfortable and I sit higher and with better posture. For me, this causes me to feel less fatigued at the end of the day and has the added bonus of storage space under the seat for a tackle box. My knees and joints prefer the Hobie drive, but my wife feels better using the PDL. I really wish the cockpit of the PDL had a better design for accessories. Hobie definitely shines in that regard, plus the storage areas are superior in the Hobie. I use the Hobie more when I have someone else to help load and unload it, as it's not easy to do alone since it weighs 140 lbs. The PDL is comparatively easy to launch solo. The PDL drive is definitely more robust but much harder to transport, especially on camping trips with a packed truck. Also, the PDL is more maneuverable and faster. Alas, both kayaks are great fun and well-built. If I could only pick one, it would be a 50/50 toss.

[@benruthlessburger8905]

Hobie hull is more efficient and glides on the water better

[@mrb401]

Do it! Keep 1 Salty and get an R13. Lol Had a feeling you missed the Revo from your is bass fishing ruining the industry upload. Anyway, It’s the best hull Hobie makes for inshore/offshore saltwater conditions, hands down. I too have been in many yaks since 2010. Trident 13 & 11, older Outback, Revo 11, 13, Salty, BW132 & a handful of siks. For the fishing I do in New England, The Revo is my favorite of them all, followed by the Salty. The Salty is the only other pedal kayak I’ve used after the Revo where I was like, ok I could actually get used to this hull. While I think the BW & Outback are comfortable, capable fishing vessels, theyre heavier & wider, in turn just dont have the agility and liveliness, which turns out to be important to me. Being on a fun hull adds to the fishing/kayaking experience. While I do enjoy the other options, the Revo just checks all the boxes. It bothers me that it doesn’t come equipped with gear tracks or sailing rudder, Turbo fins as well. I dont want the hull changed, just give us more bang for our buck Hobie! But even with those shortcomings, that hull is just special. Sleek, fast, agile and lightweight. Essentially 0 hull slap, unlike the salty. 70lbs for a 13.5’ quality pedal yak with plenty of storage to boot. Ive gone ahead and added the deep bucket in the center hatch and the front hatch liner. More than enough now. 13+ yrs in the game, I won’t be without this yak for as long as I do it. It’s stood the test of time. Long live the Revo.

[@503rpf]

Just as I was thinking about buying a kayak. Perfect timing🎣👍🏻🎣

[@danm1319]

I have the house outback and I love it , but I have a knee injury and the old town with the autopilot looks pretty awesome some days! It's nice to have a cheap light one you can throw on top of the rig real quick and go.

[@sergioclemente]

Pretty much agree with everything you said + 3 things: 1) Speed on old town is significant higher than hobie. I can cruise at 4.5mph on the old town and on the hobie would be like 3.5mph. 2) Ergonomics on the knee is a lot more favorable especially for long days on the water. For some reason the circle movement of the old town puts less of a strain on my knee vs hobie (At high speeds aka 2.5mph to 3.5mph). 3) The center of gravity of the hobie is lower and I found it a bit more stable than the old town.

[@spiltmilt]

1 and 2 will depend on the model. The Salty 120 PDL is one of the fastest pedal driven kayaks on the market but the Revo 13 isn't far behind. The Sportsmans PDL 120 pushes a lot of water and 4.5 mph is tough hold. The only model that Old Town produces that I would consider unstable in the Bigwater/Predator which has a very high center of gravity. During veteran kayak fishing events the Predator always put someone in the drink. As for ergonomics it will depend on the individual. I feel no difference in the knees between the brands but my feet are haggard after a day in the Hobie. Appreciate your input

[@davidwilliams3643]

@@spiltmilt I've heard from several people that there's something about the Hobie drive motion that has caused knee, hip , or back issues... not sure why...?

[@nintendude1988]

@@davidwilliams3643 That's funny I've never seen this opinion out there. Most people I've talked to (myself included) think Hobie is much easier on the knees, hips and back. It's a lot smaller movement for propulsion and in my experiences, a much smoother movement.

[@pj3039]

​ going to agree with @nintendude1988 the pushing motion of the mirage drive is much better on my knees and hips than the circular pushing and pulling motion of the pdl.

[@brotherbax4083]

My first, current, and only kayak is the Hobie PA 12 with 180 drive. Had been considering Old Town also, but my local dealer ran an end of season special (to get rid of inventory) and I got a screaming deal on it. No regrets. I’ve been crabbing on coastal bays and fishing in lakes with it with no problems. It is a heavy beast, so it rides on a trailer. You’re right about the ads ons. Their H rail components are not cheap and you need several to be geared right. Thanks for the insights between these two top brands!

[@NorthwestOpenSeason]

Buying a kayak was super stressful because none of them are cheap and you don’t want to have buyer remorse, however I think once you buy any of them and get on the water you’ll be happy. I chose the Hobie PA 12 because I’m well over 200lbs and wanted stability. I didn’t feel that on the Revo or Outback. I wish I would have tried an Old Town also though.

[@MrJry2598]

You hit it spot on with the both Brand. I started with Native Propel and settle on Hobie's due to never liking the bicycle style drive. My buddies love their Old Town and they are fast. Due to my love of the ocean, I well always stick to Hobie's.

[@Shinnen09]

Hobie does a lot of things right but I think what you got upon on the cons a lot with them is spot on. I would just call them finicky and slightly fragile. All the little things like shifter cables, idler pulleys, and don’t get me started on the rudder system on my tandem island (bungees getting tangled in rudder lines, really terrible way to get the two rudder handles aligned). Warranty with hobie seems to really depend on the dealer. I had really good support from west coast sailing in PDX but since you have to go through the dealer it’s really dependent on how good they are. One thing I appreciate with them (at least on the island series) is they did small parts upgrades and send them out for free. Hobie does need to get the vertical rod holders in the tank well right though! The molded in ones are less than ideal.

[@spiltmilt]

Too funny West Coast Sailing PDX are the one's who saved my ass. I won't mention the name of the dealer that basically blew me off.

[@adamsnyder9347]

Great advice from one of the most credible sources out there! I’ve had my eye on the used market as well, and after getting a great deal on the OT Predator I’ve used for a year, I’m drooling over something like a Salty (which I’ve seen one used for sale in a year) Hobie Revo (which I’ve found used quite commonly) or Hobie compass (also see them in great condition used) as my personal kayak. I’m also most certainly going to invest in a Hobie Oasis so I can keep fishing with my son who’s outgrowing the “back seat” of my OT Predator.

[@cithamao7181]

I think for what you do it would make sense to upgrade your fleet. Especially all the fisheries you fish. Looking forward to see what you decide!

[@g-wolfoutdoors8150]

Great comparison! I picked up a Hobie PA14 360 last spring but also kept my Old Town Predator PDL. Both drives have their pros and cons for sure. The PDL is great for hands free reverse. The mirage drive is great for fishing tall grass. I still haven't been in the Salt with either. 2023 is the year to pop that cherry.

[@thomaselow]

I give thumbs up to Old Town for stability while fishing standing up, esp in lakes, estuaries and deltas. Thanks for the comparison review. 😃

[@timmoore9736]

You have pretty well nailed every pro and con of both kayaks. I have had a Pro 14 for enough years to know I have zero need for a 360 drive, and it seems unnecessarily complicated - meaning more likely to fail than the old standard. At 77, if I was going to do it over again, I would go with the Old Town with spotlock, in spite of your critique of the negatives, but that is not going to happen except in dreams. . Tight lines!

[@spinfish-4355]

A meet up in LaJolla for Split Milt followers would be fantastic!

[@claudiaweber7011]

LOVE my Old Town 106MK! Durable, incredibly designed. It’s like they took everything I needed, and made this kayak. 👍😎❤️

[@thehonfleur]

I think Hobby was one of the first great pedal brand kayaks to the market, so they have a loyal following which is how they're able to get away with such a high mark up compared to the old town price.

[@Rando-h9d]

For me the Salty works great in the Lakes and Reservoirs of western Montana for trolling and jigging . I agree the Hobie wins in shallow and weedy water. I’ve never done surf launches,but if I were going to l would use my paddle coming and going since that’s the how kayakers have been doing it since the beginning. Great Vid

[@adamsnyder9347]

After buying a secondhand Oasis recently and putting a few trips in, I’ll say that Hobie is more like a luxury or a sports kayak, kind of like a Buick, or a Porsche, where the Old Town is kind of the Jeep, or F150 in comparison. That’s an over simplified explanation, but I think it fits based on my real life experiences, like driving a funeral coach at one job, or running a tractor at another one at different points in my life. Try it out before you buy it if you can.

[@boattothebelly]

I had a Hobie Oasis tandem and really liked it. Only problem is it really was only useable if I had another person. When by myself it wasn’t an easy experience. It was doable but I’m getting older so it became too much. If I get another it will be a solo design and lighter for the lakes. Great insight and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@2021boomer]

I have owned two Hobies. The tandem Island. sailed it often and also fished off if it. Great boat. No reverse for fishing and that was a bummer. Now have the Pro Angler 14 360 drive. It is a aircraft carrier for sure, but the 360 drive is amazing. No issues using it so far. Its is the newer version with the changes in the drive system. Fishing with the 360 drive negates the frustration of the wind, or current. It was a game changer for me in my enjoyment of fishing. Nothing worse that spending time with a paddle in your hand fighting the wind. Much easier and more controlled than the 180 drive. The controls to change direction are just right there easy reach and fast. If you want to try it out I am in Yakima. The PA is heavy. That is the only negative for me, but working on ways to load it without killing my back. The outback looks very good as well, lighter and still stable. Good luck on your decision and look forward to your videos.

[@spiltmilt]

I tried the 360 mirage drive at ICAST. Its neat but the fact that its available only in the ProAngler immediately eliminates my interest in it as well cost. Plus I still feel like its a bit of a distraction using my hands to turn the drive and the rudder. I really like the instant hands free reverse of the PDL drive. I can be fighting a fish with a net in my hand and still change direction. A Hobie simply can do that. The Outback is a great all purpose boat. I had one when I was on the Hobie fishing team but found I preferred the speed and agility of the Revo over the Outback.

[@2021boomer]

@@spiltmilt How do you compare the leg motion on the PDL vs Hobie drives. Round and round vs back and forth. If I caught more fish, the hands free PDL drive might mean more to me, LOL. Hopefully using your videos I will....

[@spiltmilt]

My legs don't feel very different between either model. I did get more foot fatigue in the Hobie but I find preferences vary widely between individuals.

[@jonlobello7151]

You've answered some questions for me here. But, now I am in Bellingham and boatless. My14 foot Mirrocraft is back in the U.P. in storage. I just got a job with DWF working on Mannser Creek in April and on Baker Lake in May (tagging and marking coho smolts). I've never caught a sockeye. Baker Lake should have an opener in July. Lake Samish has lots of Kokanees. I think I've watched enough of your videos to figure things out for myself on catching both species (I know they're the same species).

[@roypeterson8537]

You make some excellent points. I have owned the Old Town Topwater 106 PDL and last year purchased a Hobie Outback. I live in Eastern Washington and primarily fish the Columbia River area in the Tri-Cities. The Old Town was a great kayak. My main complaints were the front and rear handles. The front handle location made it difficult to pull up the boat ramp. I had installed the Boonedox landing gear which actually worked great. My solution was to fabricate a handle for both the front and rear of the kayak. Old Town subsequently changed the rear handle design on the Sportsman series. Hobie discontinued the business arrangement with my local dealer so I picked up the 2021 Outback at a nice discount. I decided to try the Outback since it was a lighter kayak. After delivery of the kayak, it was very difficult to install the Mirage drive. It had to be slammed into the fittings to get them to engage. The problem was during manufacture, Hobie did not fully trim off the mold flash in the hull cutout which I did with a Dremel tool. The biggest problem was with the rudder system. You could not move the rudder with either handle. Hobie did help me with understanding where the issue was but I had to fix it myself since no local dealer now. In addition, since I have an engineering background and shop capabilities, I had to fabricate a custom shim on the top end of the rudder post. Where was their QC ? This should have been caught during manufacture. Blame it on Covid ??? The front handle on the Outback is a joke. Its basically a Walmart kayak handle on a $3500 kayak. I fabricated a front handle to replace the OEM version. IMHO, the rudder system is potentially dangerous. I adjust the cables in my 65F shop. After a few minutes in 40F river water, the kayak shrinks in length and the cables are now slack. You have to keep a hand on the rudder control to keep the rudder from swinging uncommanded. On multiple occasions, I have had to beach the kayak and adjust tension on the cables. My final solution was to install a tensioning device on the left rudder cable system. This kayak is almost 13 ft long. Hobie should have installed a tensioning device as they have done on some of their kayaks. Not an issue on the Old Town. Then there is the issue of loading the kayak into the bed of my truck without damaging the rudder. Have to use the loader block. Never had that worry with the Old Town. I found the seat in the Old Town after upgrading to the Predator version seat more comfortable than the Outback seat. And Hobie accessory prices are simply ridiculous in my opinion. This past summer, the left Mirage drive pedal started to squeak. The pedal is not removable as the shaft is riveted to the leg arm. You have to purchase the leg assembly where on the Old Town the pedals are replaceable. I'm not a fan of the scupper carts even with the supposed scupper hole reinforcements. The Old Town with the Boonedox made loading and launching quite easy. I didn't feel the Hobie hull was a good fit for the Boonedox gear. I sold the Old Town as I needed space in my shop plus I had so much money in the Hobie and felt I had to keep it. In summary, the Outback performs well and is more tolerant of weeds, etc in the rivver. However, I installed the Grass Blaster on the PDL drive and it worked quite well. Would I purchase a Hobie again ? Probably not.

[@spiltmilt]

That sounds like a nightmare experience with that Outback

[@johnwhite779]

Have been using a PA14 since 2016. Yes its heavy and wasn't cheap but it works well for my needs (trolling for kok's). Ultimately pick a kayak that works for you and get out on the water.

[@whatthefish-dw]

Agreed with the benefits of mirage drive for surf launching and landing. Really the one thing I wish my 120 PDL could handle better.

[@fishroper]

Even though I just got my Salty end of last year, I am already thinking it will become my son's kayak. Very much thinking about the PA14 for my next boat.

[@pmm422]

I've looked really hard at Hobie because of the features on the fin style drive, but the price and proprietary gear track really turned me off. Although innovative and feature rich their drives definitely do not adhere to the K.I.S.S model. They seem to have a great deal of tiny little parts all bordering on the minimal size and strength required to get the job done. With those drives I can see my self having to take it into the shop for even simple maintenance and repairs. So the initial high price, looks like it would balloon through the duration of ownership. The whole H-Rail system totally turns me off it eliminates three quarters of the available products on the market and shoe horns you into only the products made specifically for hobbies. I think you can mount equipment a lot more effectively to a t-trac style mounting system. It's also really easy to make your own accessories for a t-track it basically needs a flat spot with a hole in it for a t-bolt. H-rail is very difficult to manufacture something yourself that can effectively clamp to it. So ultimately you pay what to me seems like a real premium price for the privileged to spend more for a limited selection of accessories and repairs while being limited on making your own usable mountable gear. As their patents expire Hobie is going to have to find a way to be more competitive in their pricing and design practices.

[@lauriewulf9568]

I’ve been fishing out of a Hobie Compass and I love the hull design for stability, especially around large boat wakes in the Columbia and Willamette. That being said, I wish I would have tried a Old Town for the pedaling, as I bike a lot and that seems a more natural motion to me. Maybe my knees would be happier. Weight was a concern, so I wanted a lighter stable boat.

[@waynecollins7929]

The hobie lynx is interesting to me, currently have a predator pdl with just under a thousand hours on it , I use it mainly for trolling , so the pedal drives reliability is fantastic, Thanks for another great video

[@spiltmilt]

The Lynx intrigues me too. The price tag does not 😂

[@pain_weaver]

It's an overpriced pelican. (Shoddy hull construction/thin hull.) There are lots of problems with them. You can't treat it like a normal kayak you gotta baby it. Easy to puncture the hull.

[@ericr1382]

great points you have. appreciate the run down. i have a PA14, love the kayak. Hobie drives are now 180 kick up with turbo fins. Honestly the instant reverse is nice but I can be fighting a fish reach down and in a second put my drive into reverse. Everyone who talks about this makes it seem like it takes forever, it doesn't. I fish 99% San Diego Bay, with over 2 yrs in my PA I've had no issues at all with the drive or anything boats related. I rinse the drive off every trip, no sing of squeaking, wear, or rust anywhere. fishing in kelp and sea grass, never had to pull to clear weeds love that. Turning is alittle slow but never needed to swing on a dime. For me when i was looking was 1 comfort, and 2 rig ability. Hobie hit both on the head, but yes you pay for it. If you are serious about your equipment you pay for it. I like the pay once cry once philosophy.

[@spiltmilt]

Yeah I had a Revolution with 180 drive, no kickup fins at the time. Hobie only users will always say that it isn't a big deal to pull a lever but I can tell you its a pain in the ass compared to not using your hands. 😂 In our PNW fisheries we have a lot of barbless and combat fisheries and being able to instantly go in reverse or forward without using my hands has saved me a lot of fish and a lot of headache. It also allows for more precise maneuvering over structure and razor sharp trolling speed control.

[@thehonfleur]

Great vid. Not enough side by side comparisons between the two imo

[@kyleoden3015]

I like the mirage drive because of ability to run shallow and through weeds no problem but my new prop drive is faster, quieter and reverses instantly so It's way better suited to my needs.

[@davidr8829]

Great vid. Only thing I was curious about is surf launching. Just use the paddle to paddle out through the surf instead of trying to use the pdl drive. With the paddle you get both steering and propulsion. Drop the pdl drive once you are through the breakers

[@spiltmilt]

Have you ever surf launched with the PDL up in the stowed position? The water rushes up into the cockpit and generates considerable resistance. It's many times more efficient to pedal through the surface. It's not as easy as you make it seem.

[@davidr8829]

@@spiltmilt just twice, didn't seem difficult at all. Never occured to me to even try it any other way as I'm very comfortable with a paddle from my touring and whitewater paddling

[@spiltmilt]

I am very confident paddler and the kayak cockpit fills with water due to the size of the PDL drive. When you have 50+ lbs of water sloshing and surging up into your kayak cockpit your propulsion is going to be compromised. Probably not an issue in protected launches or in places with little to no surf but that's the not conditions I often deal with.

[@outdoorsrj]

Looking healthy! Congratulations on your fitness journey!

[@spiltmilt]

Thank you 👍

[@e303gt]

I've seen too many hobie Kayaks break for me to ever buy 1. I've come real close to buying a pa12 with a 360 drive but considering I can get oldtown autopilot for the same price it's hard to justify. Now that I have a kayak trailer weight isn't an issue.

[@georgefitzhugh6455]

Thanks for sharing

[@Anarchykayakfishing.]

I agree for the most part on most things except the part about the old town cockpit if you actual look into how they designed it there is grooves specifically cut into the top of it to hold a catch board in place while measuring fish and all the other cut outs hold all my pliers and bait scissors lip grips and smaller tackle plaino boxes that I store my hooks and sinkers swivels in perfectly as well as my vhf radio. They are all low lipped pockets so they don’t retain a ton of water if you take a wave or rain. The only huge down fall I have with my ap136 are the garbage plugs they use which salt water destroys in absolute no time but I fixed that issue by upgrading the plugs to the minn kota mkr26 plugs. Everything else I would agree with you for the most part. I almost went with the pa14 360 till I seen the ap136 and instantly changed by mind

[@spiltmilt]

Yeah but Hobie's pockets retain zero water they drain out just like their cup holders. I keep all my tackle and trays in a water tight tackle box behind the seat. Not all of us are tournament anglers so a catch board groove isn't really a huge selling point outside of the kayak bass fishing market, which is quite small in the Western US. My Salty 120 PDL has zero built in storage so I had to add it all myself.

[@Anarchykayakfishing.]

@@spiltmilt I’m in the east coastal fishing playing field now I lost interest in bass fishing so I have to have a catch board for all fishery regulations in order to keep any fish I catch to avoid hefty fines and tickets so in that respect that’s it’s a big deal for me in the ways I fish marine police, game wardens, and coast guard don’t play any games around here lol

[@richpleiss1864]

Bought a 12'Hoodoo pedal drive kayak over a year ago. I wasn't sure I'd like to kayak fish , found I really liked it a lot. So, I looked to upgrade and considered an Old Town, but as you stated that drive is a bulky unit to transport and the boats are a bit heavy. I wanted compactness of the drive and lightweight kayak. I'm 69 and already have a small travel trailer I bring, so i need to be able to cartop. Seriously leaned toward a Hobie Compass, but after comparing the layouts and the Outback already comes with the turbo fins standard, I went for the Outback. I've had it out on the Sound several times and feel very comfortable. The lack of insant reverse is about the only negative. What do you think of the Jackson belt drive setup that kicks up into a notch in the hull? That could surf launch and prop clean without removing the drive? They are pretty expensive, though.

[@spiltmilt]

I would consider the Jackson drive as unreliable plus their kayaks are so heavy I have very little interest in them. They came out with the Knarr marketing it as a surf launching kayak but its a friggin battleship. I know two people who bought them and returned them due to so many mechanical issues.

[@Trout_N_Kayaks]

I'm kind of in the same situation, I'm torn between going back to hobie or staying with my old town bigwater. I've been finding myself trolling weed lines more for trout and less in open water, so I've been needing to clean my prop off much more lately. The transportation aspect of hobie seems much better too, especially looking at an outback and the mirage drive is so easy to tuck away in a car. My draw back about looking at a hobie outback specifically, I've been hearing about quality issues, I can't use a spotlock as easy because the bow isnt as buoyant and I actually like having that motor handy, and outbacks seem to be more expensive than bigwaters but I almost feel like I'm stepping down by selling my bigwater for an outback. If you removed the brand names of both kayaks, removed the drive, looked at them side by side, looked at the features each offer and capabilities, i feel the bigwater is in a higher class of kayak and it's itemized value is better, but the outback is just higher in value because the hobie name. If the old town bigwater was easier to load up on my roof, I wouldn't be here questioning my future with it but it's so heavy and unbalanced when you're lifting it. It needs the outback loading plate😂 the mirage drive is just icing on the top with how compact it is, losing spotlock is my biggest issues.

[@spiltmilt]

The Bigwater is my least favorite kayak in the Old Town lineup. Unnecessarily heavy, high center of gravity, low initial stability, a bitch to load and cart, and stupid absence of gear track. I owned an Outback for about 5 months and dumped it. Its a jack of all trades. Its decent at a lot of different types of water but not great at anything in particular.

[@Trout_N_Kayaks]

@spiltmilt there's some updating that kayak needs to have for sure🤣 I've enjoyed it the last 4 years, but it would benefit from being able to lower the seat to get that lower center of gravity, removing the plates and just adding long tracks up and down the hull, and making a loading plate because my god that thing sucks at being loaded up🤣 even bed loading it, it's a pain in the butt. Someone said a while back that the bigwater should keep the bow design but change to the autopilot tank well and stern design, and after 4 years of being in that thing, I agree with that statement now 🤣

[@ryanjones2067]

I have been running my NuCanoe F10 with an xi3. Use it in the salt and on lakes. Outstanding build easy to load. Very stable. Any experience / thoughts on Nucanoe Tyler?

[@spiltmilt]

I sold NuCanoes for a while at North 40. They were a hard sell IMO. For one they didn't come standard with chairs which I thought was bit silly for the price and while a great choice for folks looking for that open cockpit design or room to customize they don't have a lot of features that make them grab and go ready. For someone looking to run a bow mount and have lots of space they make sense given their generous weight capacity.

[@chrispower3368]

I'm in the same boat. I have a old town autopilot pilot now. Wanting to go to peddle drive (then add a bow mount motor) to have more options. The AP I'd an absolute tank to paddle if anything fails. You heard of bonafide kayaks? I was going to get their p127 before I got old town. But guy ended up selling before I got it. So went with old town.

[@spiltmilt]

Yup Bonafides are great kayaks check out this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZ-QZ2CfZdGKh7M

[@chrispower3368]

@Spilt Milt Productions hahaha I watched that one. Idk why I asked you about bonafide then, but have forgot.

[@bajacuffs]

Hobie reliable dounds like an issue for such an expensive setup. I remember well in your videos you loving the ease of the pdl forward/reverse. What I need is for you to get sponsored by Native and be able to offer a big discount code to your members lol.

[@LovingIdaho]

I had a hobie about 8 years ago and hated it . The modt uncomfortable seat . I have seen the newer seats and looked the have improved the seat . I have been happy in my lure 11.5 for 7 years and loving it , especially the seat . I do not use pedal kayaks. I paddle or use motor.

[@waltblanding810]

Tyler, you did not mention the Jackson kayaks, I have been looking at them because the lower drive unit will fold up inside the hull if you hit something or beach it. The upper drive unit has been redesigned and looks quite good and it will come off so the storage inside your vehicle would be minimal. I am looking at the new Coosa which looks to match up to the Outback and PDL120. Although the price is a bit more than the Outback and I have no idea why that is. Any thoughts on this product you could give. I have a PDL120 and Outback and thinking about selling both for this or at least one of them. Thanks and great info.

[@spiltmilt]

I didn't mention Jackson because they are not a kayak I recommend. I am not a fan of their hull designs. They are plagued with mechanical issues and not just the flex drive. Here is an older video talking about Jackson's and drive reliability as well as steering. kzbin.info/www/bejne/roTRd4ObaNKLnM0 Add on top of that they are over-priced. They recently came out with a new drive and kayak the Knarr. I know two followers who bought and ultimately returned their Knarr after multiple mechanical failures in the drive and steering systems. For now I only recommend three pedal drive brands: Hobie, Old Town, and Native.

[@pnwsportsman4036]

Sold my 106mk a couple years back- I have fam in Carlton and am looking for a 120 Salty if you are selling 🤘

[@bobcall2429]

I was looking at a old town salty pdl kayak and saw that it was recommended for medium sized guys, I am 6' 230 is there something else you might recommend for inland lakes were I fish most often

[@spiltmilt]

Old Town Sportsman's PDL 120 would be a great choice for a bigger angler on inland waters

[@andybales7318]

Old Town is the leader in durability in the kayak industry...No one compares to hull durability

[@doctt6639]

Most serious ocean guys seem to be in Revos or Outbacks……….when in Rome I guess. I agree for inland I love my Sportsman 120 pdl, although I’m secretly jealous of the guys in the PAs LOL.

[@spiltmilt]

I like the Revo. I had an Outback for 6 months. Good all purpose kayak but I didn’t like it. Too heavy and slow for me

[@ThatGuy-qg4ww]

Old town is a manufacturer who knows their stuff is tried and true and will sell. So they don't need to innovate and still raise prices

[@caleb4015]

But they do raise prices though. The MK 106 a 2 years ago was 2,999 now it's 3399 without any feature changes. They've raised their prices across the board just like every other kayak manufacturer.

[@jerrycochrun4444]

I’m thinking about a paddle fishing kayak, I will be a first time buyer. I’m 65, not super strong for lifting. I would use in lakes and sound, (live on Camano Island) and have a short bed truck. The Old Town selector suggests the Sportsman pdl 106, Topwater 106, and the Salty pdl 120. What is your suggestion for a casual fishing old guy, and first time kayak owner? I fished out of a paddle kayak at Lake Chelan last year and it was a blast, caught a limit in it!

[@spiltmilt]

Just a couple quick questions: 1.) Are you looking for a paddle or pedal model? 2.) How important is stability to you? Do you want stand in your kayak? 3.) Are you taller than 6', what weight capacity do you need?

[@jerrycochrun4444]

@@spiltmilt no standing as I have poor balance. Pedal model 5’-10”, and weigh 180.

[@jerrycochrun4444]

Looks like the only options for purchase is Dick’s or Cabelas , I wonder who would be the best?

[@spiltmilt]

If you are looking for something with a little more stability, space, and comfort than the Sportsman PDL 120 is a great choice. The Salty will be faster and easier to pedal but will have less space. Olympic Outdoor Center have both in stock right now.

[@jerrycochrun4444]

@@spiltmilt Olympic looks to be 2 hours from here! 😂😂😂 Cabela’s in Marysville?

[@TGLRD]

Hi Tyler. You’re always fishing Kokanee off kayaks… do you ever fish Kokanee on a full size boat? Which do you prefer?

[@spiltmilt]

I prefer the kayak. I don’t even own a powerboat

[@harryjayne5306]

I fish for Kokanee both ways. The strike, fight and netting is much more exciting while I am in my Hobie Outback. I use my boat to get closer to the fishing location, beach it, unload our kayaks and start finishing. Then if fishing is slow my wife can site see the shore line in her kayak while I fish instead of being stuck in the boat most of the day.

[@richcamozzi7630]

hi kokanee fishing in green or muddy water what is good to use dodgers color and lures thanks

[@spiltmilt]

It would depend on depth.

[@richcamozzi7630]

water is 39 degrees0 to 40 foot or the lake is 100 feet now

[@spiltmilt]

Are the Kokanee surface feeding or deep?

[@richcamozzi7630]

I some at 40 - 50 feet. and they didn't bite.. I used dark colors, I wonder if a Big dodger or Ford fender would be better? Thank you in advance for your reply. You have been a big help with other things too. Thank you.

[@randallpinkfloyd7225]

I've been looking at fishing kayaks for a long time. I always leamed towards a Hobie or a Native Watercraft Titan. I now suffer from back issues and nerve impingement so I'm trying to rethink if a fishing kayak is viable. (I always fished small waters in float tubes and inflatable pontoon boats previously). Due to my back, I'm not cartopping a heavy fishing kayak. I've thought about the Malone Kayak Trailers. And maybe the Old Town Auto Pilot 120 is now the way to go with a trailer? Or with my new disability am I kidding myself about a fishing kayak? BTW I'm 6' tall and weigh 200 lbs. I would primarily be using the kayak in the Eastern Columbia River Gorge so ability in moderate winds might be important.

[@spiltmilt]

First off I am really sorry to hear about your back troubles. Its really difficult to predict how people's backs will respond to different kayaks. I personally found the Hobie chairs to more comfortable the Old Town chairs but my wife hated the Hobie chairs with a fiery passion whereas the Old Town seats give her no issues with her back. I highly recommend spending some time demoing any kayak before you buy. A trailer would certainly help to reduce any heavy lifting with the AP120 but be aware you will still be lifting the motor and battery as well before and after transport.

[@randallpinkfloyd7225]

@@spiltmilt thanks for your response. I'll need to go to one of the demo days.

[@cjsoutdoors4412]

A small Malone trailer would be perfect for you..I just bought one (different brand) for my Old Town A/P 120. A lot of these Fishing kayaks are heavy, and a trailer adds overall cost, but it also adds overall ease of use (launching and landing) and transporting. Car topping is a hassle and inconvenient in my opinion.

[@wojomojo]

Did you move? Thought you fish mostly inland lakes like Roosevelt.

[@spiltmilt]

No haven't moved but have been and will be traveling a bit more.

[@markskibo5159]

All the used ones I come across are way overpriced, Couple hundred bucks less than bran new !! Want to get a pair for me and my daughter, thinking one120 auto and one PDL. I'm 6'4" 275# what you think? we are just north of San Diego, mostly lakes though Thanks for your channel an knowledge !!!

[@Jnf458]

This dude looks like he knows how to catch big fish

[@simedogz]

Which drive felt more efficient?

[@spiltmilt]

At higher speeds the PDL. I don't really notice any major difference at the lower speeds but to be fair kayak design plays a pretty big role.

[@davidwilliams3643]

You didn't really address speed, hull design (cutting through water), and stability (hull design) as much. Also, when you are talking about a Hobie are you talking about the Revo, Outback, or PA? Overall, I do think that the Old Towns are much better value, but that said... I think Hobie is superior on overall design/capabilities.

[@spiltmilt]

It would be very time consuming to compare every model. I tried to touch on broader comparisons between the brands. I agree that Hobie's hull designs and layouts are better overall aside from maybe the Salty which is a really fast boat, faster than a Revo but has a lot of hull slap.

[@nashguy2814]

Brand names are way over priced where I am. Looking into some kayaks over seas , LFS brand , there made from the same plastic , in particular I want HDPE.

[@spiltmilt]

There are a ton of Chinese knockoffs. Would love to hear how that works out for you.

[@nashguy2814]

@@spiltmilt Yeah no doubt , just a matter of finding the quality one's which I think may start with the LSF brand , for myself I am going with HDPE over the LLDPE as I mostly do rocky rivers ect. I do have a brand name pedal kayak that I bought 5yrs ago but I am down sizing again , looking for the smallest pedal kayak I can get away with , just to many factors , getting older / loading/unloading/APT living ect...lol Probably be about a year researching...lol

[@stevehogan8829]

I have a Hobie Lunx, I have an Old 120 Auto, I dont know why you would consider a Hobie. Everyone I know including you have had failing hulls and drives. You seem to be wanting someone to make a Well Made Hobie, but it wont ever happen and certainly hasn't happened yet,

[@spiltmilt]

Yeah precisely why I am hesitant to make the transition

[@AzRgr]

Hobie scupper carts an advantage? Nooo! You already mentioned how Hobie's are lighter because they use less plastic in their construction. I've seen too many videos of scupper cracks in Hobies due to their owners using scupper carts. That's a very difficult if not impossible place to make a hull repair. I would never use a scupper cart.

[@spiltmilt]

Hobie reinforces their scuppers to use with scupper carts. I’ve never seen a Hobie crack on the reinforced scuppers

[@AzRgr]

@@spiltmilt kzbin.info/www/bejne/al7QoJJjrd-cgqssi=4S5eZBejtq4j5m5n

[@AzRgr]

My mistake. That wasn't a Hobie.

[@TridentDriver]

Hobies are Purdy boy kayaks.

[@MrJump12k]

People buy Hobie because it's a Hobie..Like people buy Mercedes and not a BMW. Mercedes are in the shop 90% more than BMW.... Jus' sayin'

[@pinoykayaker]

Get a hobie, prices are down right now.