Holocaust History Under Siege in Poland

[@jamesburden6807]

Great talk and I agree with most of it. However his seeming astonishment that the polish government should honour those resistance fighters who fled with the Germans is astonishing in itself. As we know the non communist résistance was murdered by the Soviet army. Non communist independence fighters often fled with the Germans. For instance the Baltic waffen SS units - who were later employed by the allies. These weren't Nazis but anti soviets. They had everything to fear from the Soviet advance and stood am greater chance of survival in the west. However I must make clear i am as aghast as the speaker at current polish policy.

[@jim-es8qk]

France played its part too, people never bring that up!!

[@pertelote4526]

They do, they do.

[@damian4926]

One of the worst lectures on Holocaust I've encountered so far. The "professor" gave off an impression of a political commentator rather than a scholar. If you let your biased opinions into your lectures, you are not a scholar.

[@yaelbarzilai]

That is a political lecture given by Historian, using facts, reaction to politician involvement in History research with non-facts. Makes sense.

[@jackreacher5667]

No surprises here, The Jews in Poland,Ukraine and Russia were disliked intensely by the native slavic peoples and by a small to medium percentage of other European nations, many of the Death camps were in Poland and manned by locals and Slavic SS units, the German commandants in certain cases prefered these people in there ranks as they found them to be more inclined to punish/Keep order then other Peoples. There seems to be a misconception that all these camps were just manned by Germans and not other nationalities. A often overlooked fact is that internal discipline of the inmates was overseen by KAPO's who were themselves Jewish. The Poles suffered just as many casualties in the war as the Jews and often feel that this is forgotten. The Other Elephant in the room is the greed of descendants of the victims of the camps now asking for reparations from the Polish Government.

[@felicityc]

Keep in mind that... they were under the nazis, and not working for the nazis meant you were dead through survivorship bias you see people willing to do bad things do bad things; e.g., those who necessarily protested were not at post the next week. At best, transferred. At worst, now in the camp >The Other Elephant in the room is the greed of descendants of the victims of the camps now asking for reparations from the Polish Government. ? Very obvious fashy sentiment. Nice attempt at gaslighting though. Ignore these people.

[@santacruzfruitgrowers7053]

Learn history and stop spewing hate and lies.

[@derpicknicker6356]

Slavic SS ???? Source please

[@fresatx]

Why would ANYONE dislike a non-indigenous group placed into an indigenous culture? A culture that as a whole never asked for their company... I simply do not understand the hatred in this world. Shocking.

[@jackreacher5667]

What I have said is not hate or lies but the truth , if you don't believe me then do the research.@@santacruzfruitgrowers7053

[@hamsterforever7670]

Shockingly political and subjective lecture. Shouldn't historians look just at facts? All facts from every angle? Fighting for objectivity? He's clearly taking sides.

[@johnthomas1689]

Since you think he's left something out, please tell us what might balance the narrative? One thing that occurred to me is that the idea of Jews being a race rather than a political class or a religion get's muddled. No matter their religion, Jews were citizens of Poland and so Poles were involved in killing other Poles....who happened to be Jewish, or gypsies or some other undesirables. Just because this lecture wasn't a debate....it's not inaccurate.

[@maciejbrodecki9667]

@@johnthomas1689 It is inaccurate because from his perspective it sounds like Poland was taking part in the Holocaust instead of saying that Poles were also victims of the death camps. Overall stance of Polish government was not colaborating with nazis. These who did were considered traitors and were also assassinated by AK (Polish resistance). Women who were dating nazis got their head shaved bold. Also the fact he says that death camps were only built for Jews is a lie and the clearest symptom of bias. Why? Because if you know what "Mein Kampf" says is "living space for Aryans" to the East from Germany. Yes it's Poland. Also in the first year of Auschwitz activity more Poles were killed there than Jews so that's the first symptom of bias. Overall Poland in opposite to France or Belgium didn't have any volunteers to join nazis. Poles didn't guard death camps. Overall Poles have the biggest no. of "Righteous among nations" considering fact that it was the only nation where nazis killed whole families for feeding, aiding and hiding Jews. So the thing is that there is huge issue with the perspective. Poles don't deny traitors and pogroms. They don't deny the fact Jews were killed by some Poles what Poland denies is that Poles were allies of nazis and took part in organized Holocaust. What Israel sees is denial of any pogroms and deaths of Jews in Poland. At the same time Poland takes these actions because of agressive and anti-polonistic stances towards Poland. We see Isreali stance as blaming Poland for the Holocaust equally to Germans - which isn't truth. As always the truth lies in the middle. The problem is that Israel is very agressive and demanding. Saying about Polish obligations etc. without being open for discussion. I'm pretty sure there is a common ground where both countries can find the same ground but if Isreal will keep such agressive rethoric then Poland will treat it like attack and faslification of the history. Polish government takes actions because it feels attacked. It's simple action cause reaction. If Jewish rethoric wouldn't be as agressive as it is now the whole thing would be solved and we would have shared events connected to these artrocities having guests from Isreal and great relations but unfortunately Jewish people will keep the rethoric and then play the anti-semitic card because if you start defending yourself you are getting an anti-semitic label instantly.

[@Ah4b]

Shocking. What became of the nation of the most (in absolute number) righteous among the nations? Protecting the Jews ought to be the center of pride and remembrance today, rather than to adopt the mindset of the fascists who looted and murdered in Poland 80 years ago.

[@alexnorth3393]

@@SENSEOFLIBERTY You are a liar. Disgusting.

[@05KAR]

Nation... you really don't see anything disturbing about judging the whole nation as "fascists"? And based on what? A lecture of clearly biased guy mostly about his own, petty and personal issues with the critics and politicians? He's not even pretending to be imparital or serious. This is also why he is criticized. He also twisted on purpose the number of Jews killed by the Poles by taking the number of Jews which survived or escaped ghettos estimated by Szymon Datner. Other time I've seen his article in Spanish daily "La Vanguardia" in which he accused the Polish government on exile of ignoring the Polish Jews, which is too easy to disprove but I guess not for the Spanish audience.

[@05KAR]

@Alex W What the... ? Polish SS servicemen? You have zero idea about Poland or its history. Dmowski wrote a one or two bad anti semitic comments, that's all... and what ever did Piłsudski done against the Jews? Just give a one example or stop lying. The "tradition" of anti semitism in Poland comes from 19c Muscovite occupation,. Before that Jews were expelled from each and every country in Europe and fled to Poland exactly because it was never anti semitic. Get back to books, start learning and stop talking BS.

[@alastairchestnutt6416]

Thank you for an informative and disturbing lecture. The comments are also disturbing.

[@jasonkirk7802]

Some of the comments below are horrifying. History is about facts not what you would like them to be.

[@felicityc]

Who decides they are facts? That's the problem with history. It is not some clear discrete set of values that are indisputable. That is why there must be an open forum and the ability to share ideas. Reeling from any idea of adjustments or changes is even worse. And I haven't gone through the video yet. That is why history can change in clarification over time. It's normal. History is essentially subjective to a degree; to say it is based on facts and to not consider things whatsoever is a nice dog whistle though. I'm pretty sure I agree with you though I just can't tell whether I am on the most apt side yet so either one of these 'sides' of the comments could be horribly wrong

[@AnEnemy100]

Disturbing.

[@piotrbartnicki6590]

Lying

[@santacruzfruitgrowers7053]

I bet he is on Russian payroll.

[@Laurencemardon]

Learn history and stop spewing hate and lies.

[@santacruzfruitgrowers7053]

@@Laurencemardon how much did you sell your soul to the Evil for (if you have one)? 🤔

[@maciejbrodecki9667]

I can say exactly the same about you

[@rosiehawtrey]

Ah, the irony.

[@tavuzzipust7887]

Gresham lectures have become worse and worse of late.

[@mikenolhan3465]

This is political slander for hire. It's shockinj that this university allows political slander disguised as "lectures".

[@alexnorth3393]

@@mikenolhan3465 Rubbish, you are a liar.

[@bazsnell3178]

This is politics at its lowest ebb. Please Gresham, don't sink to these depths.

[@sorrelpoulton9533]

The fact that you think this is in any way political means that you are part of the problem. We need to look at history. We need to look at ALL of history, including the bits we don't like, otherwise it's not history.

[@TheBasicTruth]

Baz Snell, why are you so moved to tell us of your affliction? I would have thought that someone whose mind is in such turmoil in learning the truth would desperately want to keep quiet about it and seek medical help.

[@slawomirr12]

@@sorrelpoulton9533 it's so convenient to look at others history we don't like, not at our own, isn't it?

[@alexnorth3393]

Oh please, you are likely a defender of the awful Polish right-wing.

[@Lydiard91]

+Baz Snell Sadly it's too late now

[@samacw]

Sad to see this. I like Gresham for informative lectures, not modern political attacks.

[@alexnorth3393]

Cry more.

[@soarel325]

Did you listen to the lecture? It is a polemic but the issue is one of historical revisionism and denial

[@pectenmaximus231]

Yeah, defend Holocaust Denial some more. Really classy.

[@Lydiard91]

+samacw I agree

[@Lydiard91]

@@alexnorth3393 I can tell you cry tears of soy

[@mishmichaeli3418]

So Poland sealed its fate, or maybe there's still hope for them?

[@maciejbrodecki9667]

What does it mean "sealed it's fate". The fact that it's defending from the biased rethoric like the one we hear by this "professor"? I'll be honest some of the Jews are really weird the expect that they will "spit in someone's face" and that person then will appologize. Poland is open for dialog and finding the common ground but it means some compromise. We won't consent into presenting us as opressor equal to nazis because that's simply not the truth. That's pretty much it. Action cause reaction - if Israeli representatives would come open for dialog whole thing would be solved decades ago but if you offend someone and you are agressive like this "professor" then you cannot expect any successes. It's just against the diplomacy. Look at USA and Japan they are the best example of how open dialog can help dealing with the artrocities.

[@dexterdextrow7248]

He seemed pretty biased himself, also he actually won the court case so... Guess the bad radicals don't have that much power after all?

[@piotrbartnicki6590]

After all, Grabowski lost a court case brought against him by the family of the village headman he slandered, who saved Jews, and was presented by Grabowski and Engelking as a helper of the Germans in catching Jews. The fact that Grabowski lied about this matter was also confirmed by a Jewish woman described in this book in the context of the slandered headman described.

[@wolvolad25]

In this day and age !!! Its almost embarrassing

[@GreatPolishWingedHussars]

These lies that are spread about Poland are above all embarrassing!

[@GreatPolishWingedHussars]

@Alex W Yes, there are such honors for these criminals. The absurd thing is that the Ukrainians miss the point that the victory of these murderous gangs would meant the extermination of the Slavic Ukrainians. By the way, the EU is also silent about the officially approved marches.

[@Baibakov88]

Factual information: *exists* PiS voters: THIS IS A CRIME AGAINST THE POLISH NATION!!!111ELEVEN