Holy Trinity Alternatives

[@lichang1755]

Another great video sir! Years ago my father acquired a yellow gold chopard LUC with a solid case back. It is until now that I start to appreciate that watch: The automatic micro-rotor movement is beautifully finished and stamped with Qualite Fleurier hallmark. Truly underrated classic piece. Keep up the nice works and stay safe! Li

[@watchartsci]

Wow LiChang! A Chopard LUC with a QF seal. That sounds like a spectacular watch. Yes, very underrated! 🎅Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@AbdulRWatches]

Great alternatives Bill, I really think there should a new holy trinity for the independent watchmakers. I think the independent trio should be FP Journe, Voutilainen, and Greubel Forsey. I think Grönefeld and Hajime Asaoka, and Louis Moinet could be a second-tier trio as well.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Abdul! I have exactly that in the works, and Marco Lang needs to be part of that group ... you'll see what I mean tomorrow (Dec 22)! There are just too many AHCI and independents to limit it to a 'Trinity' ... Lang, Wiederrecht, and Roth ... plus all those you mentioned and more. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@AbdulRWatches]

@@watchartsci Totally agree Bill three is not enough. Maybe we can have a football ⚽️ team of Watchmakers, each best in their own position. so we would have 11 watchmakers instead of 3. Cant wait to see the video. Cheers Bill

[@fullymechanical9055]

So many great alternatives and choices these days to encompass all tastes and budgets. Bill, you are the artist of the deal. In smaller markets, sometimes you have to pounce, whilst not being entirely happy with the price. Cheers.

[@watchartsci]

FM, the real art in a deal is "patience." Some brands, like Habring2, have very reasonable prices and the deal is simply being smart enough to order one and wait for it to arrive; other times, it's finding a seller who wants to unload everything but his stock in Rolex, Patek Philippe and a couple of other brands that are popular. I'm more of a patient vulture than a wheeler dealer.😉 Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@firefighterps2]

I agree with Denis M. Although all these watches are fine timepieces, if what I really wanted was a 2010 porsche GT3 (in white with dark gray wheels) a Nissan 370 Z would not scratch my itch.

[@watchartsci]

Denis has a point, Phil. I want a Rolls-Royce Wraith, but have have a Yugo budget ... what to do? Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@firefighterps2]

@@watchartsci As a former Brit, I approve of your taste in cars (and watches)

[@edwardb7811]

I learn so much for these videos!

[@watchartsci]

Thanks Edward, that's great to hear! Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@ihabkahnung]

After some consideration i bought the Octo Finissimo Ultranero Black and Red new in Amsterdam at a Jeweller that i already had business with. I am very glad, at least something nice for christmas after rather shitty year. Nice work, as always. Happy Christmas Bill and to your community too.

[@watchartsci]

Love those Octos, NoIdea! Santa 🎅 was good to you early! Rated 2020 1star * .... and am looking forward to next summer when we all should have our vaccines! (Hope). Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@jeffreyblue627]

Thanks for another interesting video Bill. I own the Breguet Classique 5277 you highlighted and can confirm that it is a hand wound watch. I was also able to buy mine brand new from a Hong Kong AD at a 30% discount. It’s a beautifully elegant watch, and great value at that discounted price.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Jeffery! The Classique is well-names; it's a classic. Relatively simple, plain and beautiful all at once yet sending a clear message ... this is a class act! Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@carlus.s.dingfelder]

I bought a Tonda PF Micro Rotor to be my everyday watch. Not as an alternative to one of the Holy Trinity sports watches, but rather as the best designed and most aesthetically pleasing option in the market for me. After trying each of the three at different times, and then trying on a PF Tonda for the first time, it was love at first wear. The PF bracelets are so comfortable and elegant. Sometimes there are watches that are created only to mimic another design. Then there are others that appear similar to another design, but they reached those similarities through a different path. Sort of like the biological process of Convergent Evolution.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Carlus! I'm with you on the PF bracelet ... great quality and even with my big PF Kalpa Grande, I hardly know I'm wearing with the bracelet. Take care, Bill

[@carlus.s.dingfelder]

@@watchartsci I've always wanted to try a Kalpa on, but have yet to see one in the wild. Considering how much you seem to enjoy yours, I hope I can find a possible one to add to my collection.

[@stephenc1337]

Happy holidays, Bill! You still get the wrong Breguet watches in your comparisons. The one you should have picked is the 5157. Quite a few of the other picks are questionable, to be honest; for example, the issue with the 40mm GO Senator when compared with the 37mm Calatrava is not only the larger diameter but also the thickness and the cylindrical shape of the case. I would have never imagined suggesting the Senator as an alternative to Calatrava.

[@watchartsci]

Good grief, Stephen! Easier said than done. All of the picks were in the form of ideas for consideration and for different brands. When I used to program, no two programmers could ever agree, and the phrase, "That's not the way I would have done it..." permeates the profession. It's true in watch collection too, I see.😉 Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@lombardoperez3493]

The holly trinity is a Swiss marketing trick!

[@watchartsci]

You are exactly right Lombardo...but it's a trick that may have saved some of the Swiss watch companies. Take care, Bill

[@Domenico_Do]

Hi Bill, great video, and my compliments for yours watches. Also I like ultrathin watch but a very very little price, I was looking for Audemars Piguet and Vacheron Constantine with old caliber 1003 of Jager LeCoultre, I find them for about 3000 euro but I can't afford to buy them in this moment, I hope to buy in the next Christmas 2021. Royal Oak and Nautilus are very very beautiful but ...they are too much expensive. I think Michel Parmigiani is a great watchmaker like F.P. Journe, like Giulio Papi, like Gege' LeCoultre. I like your video. Ciao ciao da Roma, Bill, stay safe, I wish you and your family Merry Christmas and Healthy 👍✋☺

[@watchartsci]

I think one of the best deals around are the older Parmigiani watches are great buys. Here's one that's brand new, and at a great price, but it's 33mm... which may be a bit small: www.ebay.com/itm/Parmigiani-Tonda-Metropolitaine-Automatic-33mm-Ladies-Blue-Dial-Watch-PFC273/164577168521?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225074%26meid%3D8964e413301b4d04ab4aedb2ebef150f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D392797106132%26itm%3D164577168521%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithDarwoV3BBEV2b%26brand%3DParmigiani+Fleurier&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851 Merry Christmas 🎅 and Happy New Year Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@Domenico_Do]

@@watchartsci thank you Bill. It's perfect for my daughter, but I am in Italy, may I must pay duty, now I contact the seller and ask about the Shipping and duty taxes for Italy. Thank you very much Bill. ✋👍

[@Domenico_Do]

@@watchartsci the Watch Is very very beautiful, I like very much and the price Is very good, but ...how much I Will pay for import in Italy ? 😖😔 I have asked to the seller, I am waiting the answer. Thank you Bill ✋👍

[@breaktime3269]

Hi Bill, a very interesting review, and very informative. Thank you very much for sharing your experience and Stay Safe!

[@watchartsci]

Hey Break time! Thanks man. Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@wingkintang7257]

Recently ordered the streamliner from an AD, Last month the waiting time was 4 months, this month the waiting time is 6 months, with the waiting list in Overseas being longer, AP Royal Oak indefinite, and the PP Nautilus and Lange Odyseus simply non-existent, I guess that it was a good alternative and many people are starting to turn to H. Moser.

[@watchartsci]

Wing did you get the Center Seconds or the Chronograph Streamliner? I love the green dial on the CS Streamliner. I have 2 H. Moser et Cie, and they are among my favorites! Well worth the wait! Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@wingkintang7257]

@@watchartsci Centre Seconds , just bought a Lange 1815 Chrono, can't afford another chronograph.

[@jameshoward9700]

Some great alternatives. For me, Breguet (Classique or Traditional) and JLC (Master or Duometre) resonate more anyway. Some VCs appeal, but PP and AP simply do not. As a relative newbie to watches, the relentless 'uber luxury' marketing of PP and AP are a turn off. Parmigiani also appeals as does Lange, but they're no value prop!

[@watchartsci]

Hi James, not so sure Parmigiani is not a value prop ... especially for collectors. Many of their excellent watches have not held their values, and as a result, many new Parmigiani watches are available in the secondary market for great prices. Likewise, their pre-owned prices are great as well. I have two of them ... one purchased new and one pre-owned. They've proven to be outstanding values for me as a collector ... not a flipper, though. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@styx4947]

G.P. is a great example of my last comment, they make great watches, great movements, but you never hear the, "cool kids" talking about them. Ergo, they are perceived as less popular, and one can find real "value for money" in great craftsmanship and/or horological significance.

[@watchartsci]

Yes, Timothy. Often the "cool kids" are also the "clueless kids" and Girard-Perregaux is a brand with a full history that most miss. Great brand for getting started in HH. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@enginu.3996]

Thanks, do you think Piaget - Altiplano ( extra-flat cal. 9P2) is high horology? Is it just the standard horology suit watch?

[@watchartsci]

Erwin, I don't know of the Piaget Altiplano is HH‚ but it's an excellent watch. Take care, Bill

[@blueshirtbuddah1665]

Great video and excellent choices as always Bill. The GP Loreato is my favorite. Be well and stay safe Bill.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Bruce, thanks man! I never thought of the Loreato as a "sports watch" until I took a closer look, and it certainly is! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@styx4947]

Your absolutely right about the alternatives that, "lose their resale value". Try to buy a Rolex Daytona, you might be looking real close to 6 figures. But dig around a little bit in 'less popular' Brands and you can find watches that are not olny less expensive than a Rolex, but a lot of times better made

[@watchartsci]

Indeed, you are right Timothy. For example, I got a Daniel Roth Chronograph with an El Primero chrono (once used by Daytona) for a great price and when it comes to top watchmakers ever, Roth is right up there with the best. Who knows the watchmaker who make the movement for the Daytona? Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@mohamedalketbi2326]

I would go with Quai de ille ref.86050, this specific model is open movement with sapphire dial. But not the one you show.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Mohamed, that's a model I was unfamiliar with. I like the simple white dial one. I checked out the 86050 ... very cool watch. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@mohamedalketbi2326]

@@watchartsci that model launched in 2008 when they first introduced Quai de ille it has a retail price of 29 k US dollars and used VC 2460 movement.

[@TimG--]

Holy Trinity of bust! Nice video mate !

[@watchartsci]

Next time I might have an "Or Bust" video...😉 Thanks man! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@oldenglish91]

That 5196R drops like a stone. Picked up a used one two years ago for $11,700 and sold it for $12,700 to dealer 6 months ago who then listed it for $14k. Most dress pateks are good 2nd hand buys (especially annual calendars and calatravas). Dont believe the chrono24 prices listed.

[@watchartsci]

Great info. OldE! There's a VC triple calendar that I like and the Quai de L'lle that I like and you can get for a good price with good timing. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@philippm2750]

I would also add the Chopard Alpine Eagle as a good alternative to the Royal Oak.

[@watchartsci]

Thanks Philipp! I should have included the Eagle. It has the calibre Chopard 01.01-C movement too; so even though it's not a L.U.C., it's got a COSC movement. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@philippm2750]

@@watchartsci thank you Bill, you too!

[@cedshred1676]

Every choice is beautiful. Since I like more sporty watches generally, the Bulgari and GP stand out.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Ced, thanks man! The idea is to open the door to many different options...😉especially to some more affordable choices. Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@satoshinakamoto7914]

If your looking for an great alternative to the holy 3 watches brands try Giraud Perregaux,Breguet, Eberhard & CO

[@watchartsci]

Satoshi, check this out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nKjCiqZpiM5_htU Breguet has started putting silicon hairsprings in their watches... not what I got into watch collection for. Take care, Bill

[@satoshinakamoto7914]

The name is nakamoto, Satoshi nakamoto.

[@watchartsci]

@@satoshinakamoto7914 Ok Naka!😇

[@lisablackwell7658]

Great video.

[@watchartsci]

Thank you Lisa! Very kind of you to say when I neglected to have even a single ladies watch as an alternative. Here's an HT you'd look good wearing ( www.vacheron-constantin.com/en2/watches/historiques/historiques-american-1921-1100s-000r-b430.html ) and here's an alternative that I really like! (www.bovet.com/timepiece/fleurier-miss-audrey/) Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@glenh4971]

Beautiful watches Bill. Thanx.

[@watchartsci]

Glad you like them Glen! Happy New Year! 🥳 Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@glenh4971]

@@watchartsci Bill, this is a very interesting video of an Indian watchmaker taking apart an old Swiss automatic watch and reassembling it. He dances to his own music here but he knows what he is doing. kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3TXfISqq6poj7c

[@collectible_watches]

The Bvlgari Octo Roma is not a nice one ... something is wrong about it. Now .... if you had picked the Octo Finissimo .... That is a serious watch ! The ultra thin movement is gorgeous and the watch has a great presence on the wrist. Finishing is fantastic and its more comfortable then the Patek 5711

[@watchartsci]

Bruno, the Octo Roma is an excellent watch. The Bulgari-manufactured BVL-191 movement is 4Hz (like the Patek 5711... and most other Patek's), the case is well-designed with the obvious influence of Gerald Genta (he worked for Bvlgari for a time), and best of all, the price is affordable for most collectors. It is not the award-winning Octo Finissimo, but you can find unworn/new ones for far less than the MSRP. I bought one, and it's proven to be a classic for everyday business use and can easily pass as a dress watch. Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@kesselbrenner]

Bovet 19thirty or Breguet classique?

[@watchartsci]

The Bovet 19Thirty Fleurier (not the Dimier model) would be my choice ... and certainly has been. However, I do love the Classique! Gidi, I have been no help! Sorry man! Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@kesselbrenner]

@@watchartsci Thanks Bill for your time. I have another question, in the future I’m planning on buying an A Lange and a Vacheron as well. The patrimony manual wind and the tradionnelle manual wind both have the 4400 caliber, the first is 42mm and the later 38mm. Except case size how they differ one from the other? They are both dress watch, what I’m missing?

[@watchartsci]

@@kesselbrenner Since the 4400 is pushing the same hand set (hour, minute and small seconds at 6 o'clock), I don't think there's a difference. Sometimes, the same movement will be given an extra job ... like pushing a moon phase ... and in that case there might be a difference in performance.

[@satoshinakamoto7914]

The GP Laureto looks smooth and has a cheaper price tag the the Vacheron

[@watchartsci]

Good, then you can get one and be happy. Take care, Bill

[@satoshinakamoto7914]

I don't need a Vacheron Constantin or a Giraud Perregaux, I have an FP Journe ASTRONOMIC SOUVERAINE Calibre 1619 and an A. Lange & Zeitwerk 1 and the Time zone 1.

[@satoshinakamoto7914]

I have the best timepieces money can buy.

[@satoshinakamoto7914]

Ohhhh your name is Bill. I knew that jk

[@watchartsci]

@@satoshinakamoto7914 Sounds like you're all set then. Take care, Bill

[@altonriggs2352]

I wonder how many people on a Rolex list, give up buy an alternative, never to return to the luxury watch market again.

[@watchartsci]

Rolex and luxury market are not synonymous, Alton. If you mean why they get upset with Rolex and give up on luxury watches altogether, I have no idea. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@satoshinakamoto7914]

Dude why you pick that cheesy brand parmigiana? I would have picked a Grand Seiko Presage.

[@watchartsci]

Satoshi, I see you're a beginner. You have much to learn about horology and even more about good manners. Behave yourself, or I'm telling your mother. Take care, Bill

[@wristfulthinking]

Epic video, best watch channel on the youtube!!1!

[@watchartsci]

Hey Saul! Thanks man! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@krumovevgeni]

VC 8k Gold is not possible, surely the 1955 is 18 k gold ;) great video though

[@watchartsci]

D'oh! Did I put 8k when I meant 18k?! Sorry man...Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@Nefville]

I would just be happy with a Simplicity. I'm a simple man ;)

[@watchartsci]

I couldn't agree more, Nefarion. I'm not greedy and would want a Duality ... I'd be happy with a Simplicity ... may we both get one! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@Javi_C]

:)

[@watchartsci]

What is Haaaaa Veeeee up to? 🤔 Take care and be safe, Bill😷