Honda Element Part 3 You can't fix them all

[@johnaclark1]

One thing I have learned about Honda and their use of wideband sensors...they use the downstream O2 narrow band sensor for fuel control. We often ignore the downstream sensor as just used to monitor the cat but on Hondas it is also used to supplement fuel control. I ran into an issue on an 08 Odyssey that was running lean. I changed both upstream wideband O2's which didn't help. I then changed both downstream O2's and the fuel trims came back to normal. So, the downstream sensor is definitely used for fuel control on Hondas.

[@autodiagyt]

I know Nissan does this maybe if this car comes back we will try some testing with that.

[@deeznutz3494]

I’m pretty sure all manufacturers do this by now, but an instructor once told us Chrysler was the first to do this back in 96. When working on a Chrysler, you may have seen a pid when scrolling through data called “O2 goal voltage”. I might not be 100% on the theory, but this is what I remember: When the cat is new, it works it’s best at stoich. But as the cat ages, it gradually requires a different air/fuel ratio to operate at it’s best. As the computer learns that the converter is operating less efficiently over time, it changes the goal voltage, meaning it bases fuel strategy not at 14.7:1, but as required in order for the cat to work most efficiently. So of course, if you have a biased rich or lean rear O2 sensor, you can end up with the same issues as a bad front sensor.

[@kayjay4060]

@@autodiagyt Down stream should hover between .6 volts. Watching the O2 through all 3 episodes. I can see it was not behaving correctly. Probably had oil on it?

[@averyalexander2303]

Awesome video series! I agree that incorrect injectors are a real possibility. These ~160HP Accord/Element/CRV K24's came from the factory with 270CC injectors while the ~200HP TSX K24 and the ~200HP K20's in the RSX-S and 8th gen Civic Si came with 310CC injectors. The 270CC and 310CC injectors are physically interchangeable and the ~15% difference in flow rate is darn close to the fuel trims you were seeing. Also, as tight as those exhaust valves were, a compression and leak down test would IMO be worth doing to ensure that the valves and seats weren't damaged from the insufficient clearance, which is always a possibility when the valve lash is that tight.

[@fredautos]

Great suggestion

[@petasmith6956]

I worked on vehicles most of my life diagnosing is critical had a vehicle that would miss/jerk at 35 mph checked everything out it was a brand new vehicle with 1000 miles on the clock checked timing mixtures had a word with the top engineer explained to him what was happening he said did you check the valve clearances I said three times he asked what I set them to 8 thou inlet 12 thou exhaust he told me to reset them to 9 inlet and 13 exhaust road tested the vehicle all fixed I did not realise how critical an extra one thou would be keep up the good work peta

[@blueskiesmobileauto4253]

I’d give it an oil change and an Italian tune up. Very cool informative series. Love learning from you and the YT teachers!

[@frugalprepper]

It uses the MAP sensor and the TPS to determine how much fuel to put in. The computer trims is based on how the exhaust looks. I would check to see if the throttle body needs cleaned, clean it do a PCM reset and relearn the idles. If the throttle body it holding open a little because it it dirty it is holding open the TPS sensor more.

[@autodiagyt]

I had cleaned the tb months ago it trying to fix the stalling issue.

[@autoacoustics4938]

Ivan@PHD had a video recently about throttle reset and idle relearn. @@autodiagyt

[@gerrymoeller]

I agree the trims are still too high. Your total trim of 20% will eventually turn on the check engine light. Injectors definitely could be excessively fuelling, a resistance check might show something. Higher fuel pressure could cause this, a bad regulator or restricted fuel return line, bad fuel could even skew the trims. I believe even a slightly restricted exhaust could cause it also .. between watching Ivan,Eric O.,Paul Danner, Diagnose Dan and Bernie Thompson on ATS, I've learned a lot and learn more and more every day... These guys are awesome... I'm sure one of them has a video out that would explain things better..

[@renewedautodiagnosticsllc1789]

I had a Chevy with -20% fuel trim. Turns out they had premium fuel in there and it was working just fine. I also found out they have a PID for fuel volatility which read high volatility.

[@fomocore]

You're one of the few technicians that I watch. Your a Master Tech keep up the good work

[@ricebike]

Nice how you interact with your audience and confirm/rule out their dartboard guesses on what the cause is for the customer complaint. I'm just a DIYer and this is out of my league, but learning why some shops have to charge a minimum of an hour diagnosis time That's kinda why some newer techs also have to be comprehensive with all these computer controlled modules sensors and outputs Hopefully, the customer will provide an update down the road.

[@scrappy7571]

There is a little wiggle in the vacuum gauge, so a cyl is not contributing the same as the others. With the exh valves being tight, they probably have some damage & less than perfect sealing. Plus 200K miles, does not help. I would ship it, and see what happens.

[@MAGA_EXTREM1ST]

Cant ship a car thata not fixed. And 14 long term isnt fixed. It really shouldnt exceed 5%. And if the short term isnt changing then an injector is dumping unmetered fuel will explain why its worse when cold

[@BarryLadenburg]

Watched the Honda Element videos. The comments on the Map Sensor value is interesting. I know map values can affect fuel control. Not being sure if the sensor was accurate, I would have used a hand held vacuum pump to change the value a bit and see how the LTFT reacted. Just a thought .I don't really work on Honda much either, just from domestic experience. I like your approach to diagnostics and your videos.

[@andrewwarren6979]

MAP confounded me for months on my personal car. It was reporting false info. Took a chance and replaced it and it was the FIX !

[@kellyh66]

That vaccume gauge connected to valve cover was flickering back and forth is telling you your valves are not sealing. With the fuel trims i would say intake valve is leaking and sucking raw gas back in intake being ingested by cylinders that are sealing

[@pvera2u]

My Honda was running rich without codes. I cleaned the throttle body and map sensor and it fixed it.

[@JoelAutomotiveInaction]

Thanks for sharing. At 4:59, you have int and exh wave forms . the best way to verify for proper valve over lap or valve adjustment is engine cranking only cold and warm they looks different. I have even gotten data the has point me to carbon deposits on intake on GDI engines, engine running is not the best scenario since the engine espeed increases, idle control valve , engine load or rpm changes . Great diag there is always a vehicle is going to kick our but no matter what

[@roddietoney1963]

I would run a scope down each cyl first thing in the morning. If you see fuel, it's an injector. If you see oil then stem seals. You can also look at valves for carbon. I personally think you will find a bad valve seat from tight valves.

[@colintrenker8772]

Hello. I had a Honda just like this with moderate (-) fuel trims and after checking the fuel pressure it was too high. turns out someone messed up doing the fuel pump and had the return line pinched.

[@milesmahan]

You rock! .....oil change will make a difference, valves should be a tic loose..not ticking but a 'tic' on loose side of spec

[@cullenmiller8170]

Great series and thanks for taking the time for sharing. At this point I believe there are multiple factors causing the issue. The car has 200,000 miles and nothing is perfect and the combination of all the little things are contributing. New injectors might help, but the engine still has 200,000 miles on it.

[@raulpereyra2817]

THANK YOU FOR the step by step diagnostic. As I can use this kind of information for Guidance and instructions on what to and NOT to do. Sorry you couldn't bill for all your time.

[@c-moneycantrell]

If there’s no misfire or stall you’ve done your job . If you would’ve done the valves right out the gate you probably wouldn’t even know about the imperfections. Your extensive diagnostics led you to something that wasn’t the customer complaint. They just want to be able to sell it. Now they can so good job👏 Wish I had half your understanding and capabilities in the diagnostics and tool department.

[@johneddys2351]

Could a valve seat(s) or valve(s) be damaged from from running tight for too long?

[@avitiello100]

Just a thought, if the exhaust valve gap was too small, there is a strong possibility that the valve is burnt. It got burnt because it's dwell time against the valve seat (exhaust valve heatsinking) is too short.

[@avitiello100]

Absolutely great videos. I am always looking forward to you posting new ones. Thank you

[@johneddys2351]

My thought too.

[@ikocheratcr]

Thanks for sharing this case. In my opinion this type of cases are the most valuable, there is so much to learn and "enjoy", on one had that not all is 'roses all the time', and also the responses from the community to come up with possible things to look for.

[@cannbudo]

Kinda bummed the customer bailed on this one. Typical used car dealer behavior. I agree with some others. Change the oil. Check for over fueling pressure regulator. Thanks for the videos. Much to learn on this channel.

[@JohnDoesGarage]

I'd try cleaning everything that can be cleaned. MAF, IAC, throttle body, change air filter. With that many miles, a good cleaning of all the sensors that can be cleaned wouldn't hurt a thing. Maybe if everything is dirty, they are each contributing to the problem but not to the degree that you can detect by testing. A can of cleaner is cheaper than injectors and may fix the issue. I like to rule out stuff like that before I go spending money. Great case study. Thank you for all your hard work making these videos.

[@PaulCTownsend]

We see at 3400 ft the value you see on the scan tool on the map. And that value is normal for us at 3,400 ft.. But I've never seen it that low with 21 inches of vacuum. I do feel your pain it's a tough deal.

[@bluejayoutpost9170]

Pat on the back my friend... i am for you just like all who post those great comments~Keep up the awsume work and tedious filming and the great patience you have 😎👍

[@alexandrumardare828]

Did you take a look at the IAT? If air density is misscalculated it might think that the engine is getting more air. Also unplugging o2 sensors and reading it with a standalone one line tuners use could help

[@Eddiemac8343]

Speed density highly relys on map at that low value i noticed the calculated load pid was 28 at ldle ,thats a little high for idle and could cause extra enrichment 🤷‍♂️

[@MrAnthonyfym]

I wonder if the vtec valve is not shutting and running on the larger cam profile

[@autodiagyt]

Vtech is working correctly

[@MsFireboy2]

You might be on to something there on the injectors? Sounds like the owner is good with it. Thanks for posting.

[@abimariavargas7086]

With Pcv and evap disconnected short trim was normal at idle but whent negative -10 when u rev ..maybe has something to do oxygen sensors

[@paulspeller968]

well at least it seems like the cold start is a fix nice . don’t you have a local place that will test those injectors , over here it’s not big bucks to have a set tested . but i guess the dealer don’t won’t to spend big money on a repair. eat into any profit one the car . have to say your a great inspiration my friend i have had nothing but can faults this week lucky i have been going through your videos over the last month so have been remembering things i had forgotten about can network and how to test ( getting old 🤣🤣🤣)

[@autodiagyt]

It’s more work to take them out and test them then it is to just replace them lol

[@paulspeller968]

@@autodiagyt slightly more expensive and if it’s a fail you gotta eat it 🤪🤪🤪 but i hear what your saying labour wise 👍

[@johnmitchell8925]

My 2011 honda pilot has 178k miles on it.fuel trims still perfect

[@mikechiodetti4482]

What was the rear 02 sensor showing? Some vehicles will help the PCM for decision of fuel injector on time. Anyway, I like your decision about injectors later on.

[@autodiagyt]

To me the O2s are agreeing. Downstream seems to act and read how I'd expect.

[@brianritchie75]

Sean Tipping sent me. You have great editing skills, great video series!

[@autodiagyt]

Awesome thanks did you listen to the podcast?

[@brianritchie75]

@@autodiagyt yes sir I did.

[@cyberslacker5150]

You could have the fuel pressure too. One time someone put a Chinese Ebay fuel pump and the fuel pressure was much higher than normal, causing the injectors to spray more fuel than a base amount. That caused the PCM to trim down the fuel .I would also check the fuel pump pressure. And if someone put non-OEM injectors in. It could be a combination of the two. Remember, you only need one bad injector to ruin the whole bank trim.

[@artursmihelsons415]

Great video series and true conclusion! Yeah, not everything is fixable.. About fuel trim - maybe it's fuel rated issue and is ok with that type of fuel and can be solved by fueling in different station or with other octane fuel.. 😉 In my car, ECU by manual, can accept any type of gasoline and is self adjusting, but I never put in it nothing less than 95 and never looked at long term, short term live stream for my car..

[@PaulCTownsend]

On that Honda key on engine off in OBD2 what's the barometric pressure 26 28? corrected for your elevation. Our barometric pressure reads 26 at 3400 ft. Old school vacuum gauge do the math on it and see if it's in sync. 21 in of vacuum You must live on the beach. In the scheme of things I think I'd try an OEM map sensor first and if it don't fix it so what.

[@autodiagyt]

I’m at 1,000ft and it reads in psi and it’s pretty close to what my phone app shows. This was covered in the first video.

[@suryaprihadi2258]

Jake, my engine m276.820 on W212 E400, from MB is on purpose set at "slightly rich" as per its med177 ecm variant coding. LTFT commonly at -8 to -10%. While STFT depends on how agressive i drive, as WOT will give open loop lambda control., can be zero % at grandma style driving to -5% if lead footed. Is there similiar honda propeitary data like i mentioned, if one can get honda oe scan tool .?

[@edwinlomonacofoolsend]

I've got a Ram right now that is a similar problem. Tota ft's -50%. All sensors reading correctly. Most importantly the MAP and O2's since it's speed density. Misfires on 1 and 4. Customer installed their own plugs. They were knock offs. We put new ones in it. No change. RC test showed cylinder 1,5 and 7 are lower. But not extraordinarily so. All injectors ohm tested equal. Between 12 and 14 ohms. Within spec. So I'm currently trying to think outside the box. Cuz it's got me a bit stumped.

[@brycelund4112]

Sounds like the customer installed some knockoff injectors as well.

[@edwinlomonacofoolsend]

@brycelund4112 We installed new injectors on cylinders 1 and 4 that are the ones counting up on the misfire monitors. No difference. And resisted tests shows all injectors are equal. Obviously that doesn't mean they're flowing the same. But that's where I'm headed next. Going to unplug just injector 1 and then 4 to see if my ft's clear up. If so those injectors are skewing the ft's for that whole bank. And would also mean the newly installed injectors are also shit. We'll see.

[@portlander7280]

I know you said all sensors reading right but if your misfires and rich condition is on one bank, I would recheck the o2 sensor readings. Had a 12 ram that shop gave up on it doing pretty much everything they could to fix a rich & misfire codes. What I saw on o2 voltage made me do some tests and I discovered someone has connected the front o2 to the rear o2 plug and vice Versa. Connectors are the same and they were just hanging and not secured. After swapping the plugs and restarting the engine, It took a good 10 minutes for the engine to work right again. Still had some -14 trimming but the oil change fixed it. Good luck

[@jtjones4727]

Is that particular Honda have California emissions, or is it ULEV or SULEV? Being a density-charge type map system, the downstream O2's tend to affect drivability more than most other vehicles. But I think given the mileage on that one, you may have done all you can do, without pulse testing all the injectors and using a 5 gas analyzer.

[@oldsilkhat7893]

I'm still going with #3 injector. The ecu is getting delayed information from the O2 so it throws a #4 misfire. The fuel trim isn't bad enough to be multiple injectors in my opinion.

[@autodiagyt]

The misfires have completely went away

[@Friend_of_the_One-Eyed_Ladies]

There are shops that can flow-test injectors. Obviously the injectors are all functioning, but might be partly fouled (dripping, not spraying).

[@marcokahny709]

Jake I seen Eric O solve a fuel trim problem because the vehicle ecm was stuck in E-85 mode the computer was adding more fuel thinking it was alcohol but the O2 sensors were seeing gas he did a reset in ecm somehow 🤔

[@autodiagyt]

I’ve reset the ecm several times.

[@marcokahny709]

@@autodiagyt Be interesting to see if you run it on E-85 would the fuel trims be right 🤔

[@autodiagyt]

@@marcokahny709 if there was a e85 station close I might would try it lol. Closest one is 45 minute drive away.

[@marcokahny709]

@@autodiagyt I know you're dying to know what would happen

[@abimariavargas7086]

If it was wrong injectors prob would be setting a rich code . in my experience.. I had 240cc injectors instead of 190cc in an older civic ...

[@bartscave]

Your intake pulse sensor trace at the 5 minute mark shows that you adjusted the valves correctly. The “M” at the top of the red trace is what I’m talking about. Particularly on #4 intake pulse.

[@mikemurphy7519]

Check for exhaust leaks, especially near the o2 sensor

[@greggc8088]

Were the valves tight as usual on Honda's?

[@Mario-zb1yc]

Whats about Injektion time . O2 Sensor Right Data ?

[@tonyfremont]

The highest vacuum level i saw in the video is 6.75, and that dripped to just over 4psi when you turned the AC off. 6.75 isnt terrible, but its only about 13.5" of vacuum. 8" though, at idle, seems horribly low. On stuff that I've worked on, 13" at idle was usually indicative of a big cam and not enough timing advance, or a vacuum leak if it was a stock engine. Most of my experience is with older, carbureted engines, though I have some fuel injection experience (TPI).

[@davidturner4639]

I'm still leaning towards too much EGR flow. The oxygen depleted exhaust gas is is mimicking a rich condition. O2 sensor is sensing less oxygen in the exhaust. The engine is then corrected to run lean but the EGR is masking the pre-ignition.

[@autodiagyt]

No egr on this engine. Egr is accomplished with vvt.

[@walterkopf5590]

I have a couple questions. does it get worse with time like the cat is not flowing enough causing fuel trim issue. also does it have an egr that could be sticking causing a rich condition and what is the routing of egr for previous work. for example I had a guy do his own headgasket but put the egr mount gasket on backwards so it was constantly sucking exhaust even with egr blocked off.

[@autodiagyt]

No egr on this one. Incylinder doesn't show a back pressure issue either.

[@amjadmadanat101]

MAP sensor is indirectly used to control Injectors instead of MAS , and i noticed the vacuum gauge is higher than normal engine ! means a restricted intake ! i might be wrong though.

[@Ahmed.Diesel]

I'm facied these issue before Due to engine seized there is mixture going inside engine case after that going to intake manifold through PCV valve Just remove the pipe between pcv valve and intake manifold after actuator and use a plug or anything else to block the suck fresh air from the pipe and check short fuel trim

[@BesprovolkiSvias]

Air filter clogged? Some rag is stuck in the air intake pathways? Feels like not enough air, and computer removes "extra" fuel.

[@robertfoilesjr1337]

Awesome MAP check teaching!

[@davewallace9048]

I would do an oil change, throttlebody service, and Italian tuneup.. allow the valve to rotate making it seal correctly!

[@wagoosh78]

I was thinking high fuel pressure causing it but when u went to cruise speed the trims went more negative and car had power so exhaust wasnt the promblem and egr leaking maybe stretched timming chain ?

[@autodiagyt]

No egr on this engine and the timing I spot on with a known good waveform I found.

[@bradfaught1695]

Hopefully this video series does real good for the channel, cos i got a feeling your not billing for all the time you have into this honda.

[@autodiagyt]

No definitely not sadly.

[@alexandrumardare828]

Have you ever thought of looking at the calculated MAF in the ecm and measuring it with a diy maf sensor with arduino?

[@autodiagyt]

No I have not. Seems like alot of work to make it and implement it on different vehicles. I'm really not tech savvy at all and wouldn't even know where to start with an Arduino

[@alexandrumardare828]

When times get better for me, i am going to buy a bosch one and convert the Voltage to mass flow and display it on a small screen. Then just adapt it to the cars intake before the air filter. Of course this will tell you only that it is flowing more/less air. This could be a bad MAF, MAP, IAT, Leakage, or a bad calculation since the engines VE (Volumetric Efficiency) changed from stock because of a damage like Valves, Timing …

[@hikerJohn]

What is the history of this car (it does not say in the description). When did it start doing this?

[@autodiagyt]

Auction car no known history

[@Bizija123]

This kind of reminds me of my own Audi A5 2.0T 2015, but reversed. It's been running lean with LTFTs of +10-12 percent and it's been driving me mad, don't know what it is. Smoke test in air intake did not reveal air leak. No codes at all.

[@bettylane1984]

Ok...would be a good Bernie Thompson case study! Get in touch. LOL

[@jamesrossmotors]

The engine is not actually running rich. From your last video it was running at Lamda 1. Long term is a memory trim and can take time to re learn unless you do a fuel trim reset and start from there. I think your over thinking it.

[@8power0]

MAYBE IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO ADD AN AUTOMOTIVE 5 GAS ANALYZER TO YOUR TEST EQUIPMENT LIST . JUST ONE QUESTION WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING HIGHER FUEL TRIMS WOULD THAT NOT SHORTEN THE LIFE OF THE CATALYTIC CONVERTER. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND LOOKING FORWARD TO THE NEXT DIAGNOSTIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@woodys74nova]

intake leak un-metered air?or the map is screwed.

[@bigpapabrettr1240]

Seen used engine with all the wrong injectors cause trim issues .check the part numbers on them

[@arthurfricchione8119]

Jake good morning. Have you tried an injector leak down test and compare the results of each injector? Maybe you have or I missed it but maybe comparing each inject would be helpful. Whatever it is seem to be affecting both the short term and the long term. Maybe they will say change them or it will live for another day. 👍

[@autodiagyt]

Yes they have been checked

[@arthurfricchione8119]

@@autodiagyt thanks Jake 👍

[@alfredosoto-8931]

Exhaust back pressure test

[@WorkWithCesar]

I know this is late but how would you go about testing the injectors? I ran into a ford 2.3 1990s that ran rich but I checked everything and found nothing, then I realized they had put eBay injectors in it. I think injectors are the issue of it running rich but how would we going about testing (without physically pulling them and flow testing on a bench )

[@autodiagyt]

You would need to know the flow rate of the correct injectors and the flow test your injectors. Bernie Thompson has a great video on it b

[@IntradeMotors]

What I once had seen fail was the variable valve adjustment aisin on a Renault mechanically first was wrong timing then fail after as Renault have no fix timing marks

[@autodiagyt]

Timing has been verified while running

[@mandytuning]

Your vacuum gauges is reading way higher than the map sensor. There is your problem.sometimes they get obstructed or the diaphragm leaking. Remove it and use a hand vacuum pump, pump at 20 and see if it matches the scan tool, also see if it holds the suction.

[@autodiagyt]

The mechanical gauge and map sensor do read the same. I'm pretty sure I explained it in the video that the map sensor is reading in absolute pressure and the mechanical gauge is reading gauge pressure.

[@mandytuning]

@@autodiagyt your right, i checked my tsx and the higher the vacuum the lower the psi.mine also is around 4.9 at idle .

[@calholli]

I think the fuel trims won't even set a code until they get to 20% (I'm not certain on that). I have seen several videos on aftermarket injectors being over sized and spraying too much fuel. I wish we had a known good injector balance test on this engine, to compare with your test; but I couldn't find one.. I think you're probably right: someone likely put in aftermarket injectors to get "more power baby" -- without a tune... and now it's just flooding everything. :) .. If it never gets any worse than - 10%, then it's fine, and shouldn't throw a code. But the problem is-- when you revved it and showed -10% short term on top of -10% long term.. That long term will eventually relearn and adjust to a -20% trim. But maybe it will never be driven long enough in that higher RPM for it to ever make that adjustment. Ship it

[@overload3996]

He would need a volume gauge ,or he could bypass to measure cup in a 15 second time to measure volume then multiple it to the min,or hr.

[@edwinlomonacofoolsend]

Oh and engine vacuum is 18 inches of mercury. So it's healthy. And it agrees with scandata. Next is disconnect injectors 1 and 4 and see if ft's clear up. May have faulty cylinders and or injector flow is somehow incorrect. Either way at this point there are no obvious reasons for the rich condition.

[@randy1ization]

maybe a bad seal at the spark plug to block, this would let extra air come into the engine and make the computer think it was lean on that cylinder, then pull fuel away?

[@cliffperry8470]

Hi there , I’ve watched parts of ur videos because being busy my end I normally watch them all the way through, so I’m going to say something that you may have done so bare with me on this . On alldata it does say to do a throttle body relearn because the ecu is staying where it is regarding the rich condition. Apparently it takes some time to complete. Be great if you could comment back please .

[@autodiagyt]

Yes I’ve done the relearn several times. I just cleared codes and reset everything again today so that it’s ready for the customer to pick up and after the idle relearned it’s still back to -16% LT trim.

[@arthuraucar3696]

Calculated load looks a little high. I would remove map, and make sure passage is not caboned up. I would disconnect evap purge line and pcv, and look at trims again. Blessings!!

[@arthuraucar3696]

I would not do injectors. I would also check exhaust backpressure.

[@autodiagyt]

All of that is covered in this video

[@jtsautomotiveandeverything480]

What about carbon build up on valve

[@autodiagyt]

Bore scope showed they was actually pretty clean. I didn’t record any of that footage

[@jmaxim80]

the only thing left is the injectors and I've seen enough videos where it's usually 1 maybe 2 bad injectors that are adding a considerable amount of extra fuel causing the fuel trims to be out of wack.

[@jorgemat8080]

Aftermarket injectors?

[@gaad7938]

It's good 202k on it. All 4 injectors overfueling?

[@rmeyers2021]

Does that car have a vacuum line connected to the fuel pressure regulator? If so it could be the regulator diaphragm is leaking and allowing fuel into the vacuum hose. I had that issue with a 99 Silverado.

[@autodiagyt]

This one looks to be a returnless system where the pressure is regulated in the pump or possibly fuel filter. I’m not really sure where on the vehicle but there is only 1 fuel line at the engine.

[@figol6272]

missreading an o2 or wideband sensor from a blockage on the sensor tip maybe ?

[@autodiagyt]

It’s a new upstream.

[@figol6272]

new dont always mean good @@autodiagyt

[@figol6272]

and i have saw with the jap stuf the downstream can make the upstream go funkie

[@autodiagyt]

@@figol6272 you are correct but the odds of 2 behaving the same is very slim

[@figol6272]

i would agree with u on that just something dont make sence with the ST LT fuel trims i just cant put my figure on what the flow test of the injectors would show 1 bleading its weird and they are not @@autodiagyt

[@tonyfremont]

After sering the vacuum gage you hooked up, the MAP sensor readings seem low. The purge pirt pulled over 20" vacuum, just idling, and that sounds reasonable. Shouldn't the map sensor readings match what your vacuum gage shows, or is the vacuum boosted somehow during purge? Is 25% calculated engine load, at idle, correct/reasonable? Edit: i think i had the wrong formula to covert psi to inHg, nevermind what i said. Your old school vacuum gage looks fine. This a weird problem, maybe the person talking about the factory using larger injectors is on to something. It definitely seems like the ECM is overestimating the injector pulse width, the relying on the o2 feedback to fix things. Maybe fuel pressure is too high, or the injectors are too big.

[@roberthemmerly500]

Did you check the alcohol content.. I have seen people put e 85 in

[@autodiagyt]

E85 in a non e85 car will actually cause a lean condition, it will be adding fuel to compensate. It takes more e85 to accomplish what regular gasoline does. I’ve ran into that a few times.

[@quidelicia1]

A suggestion: It could be a crack at exhaust pipe before sensor. This should explain the rich thing... so the sensor measure oxygen and, like this, you'll have fake rich mixture with a fake air entrance. engine looks like pretty nice for it's mileage. For testing this suggestion, with engine not hot, to reduce risk of flame, you could use a wd40 or a brake cleaner spray to analyse if the oxygen sensor will have some perturbation. test: spray it over the exhaust side, trying not leave admission get it, and take a look if the oxygen sensor have fluctuations at the measured values. the spray should indicate a very rich value for some moments, if there is a crack. It's like testing admission for fake air entry. Success always!!! Note: The admission red waves are not exactly the same, one cylinder, before valve clearance correction, had a round shape at it's upper part. By fake air entry, I mean air leak... 😅

[@richardgreene7198]

blueskiesmobile4253 is right about an oil change . Could be some fuel in it that the ecm is seeing via the pcv .

[@autodiagyt]

I removed the pcv from the equation in the video and show it still had a negative trim.

[@Bikerman42]

I would agree with some of the people on here with the down stream 02 sensor. You can try and short the signal wire of the 02 sensor and see if the fuel trims change. You should be able to drive lean and rich my using positive and negative terminals. Juat use your body as reaistance so you dont short anything out. If you wet the tip of your finger it will pass current better. Ita a great cheap way to test 02 sensors.

[@christiancorrea8820]

Nice video Jake. My question is a little off topic. On an 07 crv ex does the knock sensor circuit have a bias voltage?

[@autodiagyt]

I honestly don’t know.

[@christiancorrea8820]

@@autodiagyt Thank You for responding.

[@sergei41]

Amazing and maticulate diagnosis👍What about EGR valve leaking and diluting mixture? Just a thought man.

[@autodiagyt]

No egr on this engine

[@sergei41]

cool

[@tobiasbullert9539]

Just a thought, could be fuel pressure to high causing more fuel to enter combustion? Not to familiar with honda either.

[@autodiagyt]

I finally found the spec is 48-55 psi. This car is 52 engine running.

[@joeandgod1]

Could it be the pcm needing reprogramming or replacing?

[@autodiagyt]

Not updates available for it. I don’t think a pcm is the issue honestly.

[@autodiagyt]

Not updates available for it. I don’t think a pcm is the issue honestly.

[@G-George33]

Have u done the injector cleaning? Or do u think that doesn’t work?

[@autodiagyt]

They seem to flow the same. If anything they flow to much.

[@overload3996]

psi * 2.02 =inHg for map, 17-22 inHg should be at idle. seems low. That would scew the fuel strategy.

[@autodiagyt]

So you think there is to much vacuum?

[@tharakanewan3544]

Small correction here 1 psi = 2 inHg , so that should be psi / 2 = inHg.

[@seftonplayer32]

I also thought vacuum was too high. Is there timing adjustment on that model or is it computer controlled? My uncle once told me 18-20 inHg at idle.

[@ahmedalnadif3013]

You miss to upgrade pcm software that Number 1 For Number 2 speed density system when it have small plug exhaust it run ritch

[@CajunShrek]

Cats got hurt? Reflash ECM?

[@autodiagyt]

There is no updates for it. I’ve looked lol

[@JACKATTACKED]

Brake servo, Injector?.....11.6psi before starting and drops to 3.6psi after it's warmed up and running. The map sensor readings are in the normal ranges and if it was out it would set code for it....net post.

[@Mustangg16]

You mentioned Ivan? Where is he???

[@autodiagyt]

Pine hollow auto diagnostics

[@jvseevalenz8324]

change oil and clean throttle