Three Things I Didn't Learn at Thunder Ranch

In today's video: an entitled ADHD zoomer attends Thunder Ranch and disagrees with professional instructor.
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[@Hoplopfheil]

In case it's not clear from the video, Thunder Ranch DOES want you to use the safety! If you show up to a class and give them the "this is my safety sir" line you might be asked (politely but firmly) to leave. The difference between what I'm used to and what TR teaches mostly boils down to the safety being disengaged one "step" sooner, and re-engaged one "step" later than I'm used to. I had a hard time fighting muscle memory to do it the TR way, which is why I wanted to talk about it in this video.

[@williamflowers9435]

I can see Clint asking to see that finger and politely snapping it for you

[@RunningWithSauce]

I wouldn’t be able to do it their way either and I suspect any well trained military veteran or someone trained in military marksmanship standards would be frustrated with them and they should adapt knowing it’s not wrong. ( both are acceptable )

[@Jesusiskingamen7]

You’ve never been in a gunfight that why your worried about the safety. In a gunfight you ain’t worried about that safety

[@tfwwhennofitlitgf3300]

@@Jesusiskingamen7 has pat mac been in any gunfights?

[@affy3298]

@@Jesusiskingamen7 On one hand, I think this is a cop out argument. In a gunfight you ain't worried about a lot of things I imagine but that doesn't mean training to do X isn't beneficial or better practice. On the other hand, yeah. This seems very close to if not in Extremely Marginal Gains territory.

[@slickwillie5681]

I imagine James flying into PDX, renting a convertible mini cooper and pulling up outside of Hops house unannounced blasting Mumford & Sons and yelling something like " get in queer, were going to Ram Ranch"

[@Finman78]

He definitely gives off 80’s gay coke dealer vibes. A cool gay coke dealer though.

[@Isometrix116]

​@@Finman78Is there such a thing as a not cool 80's gay coke dealer?!

[@hateferlife]

@@Isometrix116 If you're starting a poll, put me down for: mostly likely not.

[@frankholub4673]

You say it like this isn't exactly what happened.

[@loganwykstra7922]

All of them with the Jean short shorts

[@VictoryOrValhalla14]

I can confirm Thunder Ranch is fantastic, enjoyed every second of being there. Clint and Heidi are superb hosts and instructors.

[@matt291]

They make you feel like family when you're there.

[@AndyCigars]

Insert Napoleon Dynamite *lucky* gif here.

[@bigpicklerick]

The safety thing is a doctrine thing, clint is a marine from the Vietnam era in his own words " I think more people died because of that safety more than anything" his reference is conscripted drafties who had a little to almost no time to learn. Pat is a delta guy who was the pioneer in delta training and modernization in som aspects the level in military career and time in combat and knowledge of the body and brain l. Thats the main difference in thier doctrines also clint teaches from the civilian minded angle where pat bridges the civilian and military mindset for effectiveness in the fight. Geest video

[@DeskPop]

Today I learned that Hop and I agree on more things than I thought.

[@CrashRacknShoot]

Congrats?

[@EuropaChronicles]

Same. Lol

[@Maine307]

yup , his 3 points were ingrainded in me for 20 yrs.. Hop does a good job when he needs to explain with respect, a proper alternate way. he does good.

[@UnknownUser-fe5zu]

“Aim point T2 and a big beefy mount” is what my wife used to say when I took my pants off.

[@mtnbound2764]

im not sure if thats good or bad, but at least you were getting to the pants off point, alot of ppl in here dont get that far!

[@thefrogking481]

Only when you wore the strap on she bought you.

[@Pinkskull69420]

Tfw micro dot

[@investigativeoutcomes9343]

you mean he bought her @@thefrogking481 . lol

[@mtnbound2764]

@@Pinkskull69420 lol TFW comp m4

[@darthhodges]

I didn't think I needed backup iron sights until an unusual range day. It was a particularly hot and humid day (even for Missouri) but my rifle spent the drive inside my air conditioned car. When I first pulled it out at the range it immediately became covered in condensation. I couldn't see through my red dot at all. I could wipe it off but it would become occluded again almost instantly. It took more than 10 minutes for the optic to warm up enough to stop doing that. It occurred to me afterward that an optic that has been outside on a cold day that is then brought into a warm building could have the same problem, just ask anyone who wears glasses. Also, bringing my rifle out of my air conditioned home on a similarly hot and humid day could also be just as useless. So now I have OFFSET irons just in case I encounter a similar situation.

[@orpheusepiphanes2797]

I hate offsets but what you just said is a great reason for having QDs

[@lililililililili8667]

GET THIS CAT OUT OF MY WORKSPACE I'M TRYING TO DO SAFETY MANIPULATIONS OVER HERE

[@pranavkamath4329]

Safety stays on by default and the finger stays out of the trigger guard. Finger goes onto the trigger and thumb snaps down the safety at the same time. Finger comes off the trigger and you can put the safety back on as you remove the finger from the trigger guard or lower the rifle.

[@1337Tactikal]

Black cats are my favorite, always so affectionate, vocal, and just over all sweet.

[@jrstoelting]

I love black cats. Best cat we had as a kid was a black cat.

[@samadams9557]

Hop, I couldn’t agree more on the safety. I trained with a particular group of guys for about 2.5 years before we had to move. We trained weekly and became very proficient up to live fire shoot house drills in gas masks or night vision. Given that with most modern firearms you can either pull the safety and then the trigger, or the trigger and then the safety, you can engage both at the same time and not worry about the thousandths of a second on which actually came first. There’s no reason other than complacency in my book to ever not engage the safety on/off only when you’re actively shooting. Once you’re used to it and it’s muscle memory, there’s zero issue. And for anyone reading this, if you disagree, ask yourself which group you’d be happier with your daughters or sons go train with in a live fire drill. Then once you realize your argument is weak, go work that safety in some simple up/down drills.

[@tech6263]

900.00 to be told your rifle is wrong. I applaud you for holding onto your own views and applying lessons where they had benefit however, I come here to listen to you ramble like a crazy person is the highlight of the show.

[@isaiahmiller9142]

$1280 for a defensive handgun course. I get there's a lot provided, but it still seems crazy to me.

[@almostontimehero5415]

You also have to pay for 3,000 rounds of ammo, your own food and hotel. $900+$1,400+$120 = $2,420 to shoot at Thunder Ranch for a weekend. Plane ticket not included. Ooof

[@hawk9mm]

@@almostontimehero5415 oh and take some time off of work probably and use vacation time too so no income during that period of overpaying for 1 or 2 days of being told you're wrong.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

​@@isaiahmiller9142for that price the ammo and burgers should be provided. I can understand an expensive rifle course because of targets and land and whatever but a handgun course doesnt take up much room unless its a 500 meter stocked artillery Luger handgun course.

[@revolutionanarchy713]

out of the 4 who commented, who has been there?

[@alexisdetocqueville9964]

I put off putting BUI on my main rifle for a long time because I had very little real estate with the switches and light and LAM. Eventually ended up tweaking things around and got a folding back sight and fixed front squeezed in there. Many rifles, particularly ones set up for night fighting don't have the space for the classic set of folding BUI, but there's some workarounds like the Leaf sights for DBAL, etc. Never had an issue with needing it before, but good to have the option of course.

[@Apocolovids]

I like the GG&G light mount. Just about the best way to run a light on a rifle with an A2 front post.

[@jacobhaynieful]

I like em but I'm a slut for the mossie midnight

[@spartan0771]

Says a lot about you that you're willing to come out and publicly, but kindly, disagree with people who have much more experience (and probably clout) than you do because you believe in your own opinions and experience. So many men aren't stubborn enough. You're a class act and my favorite firearms content creator Hop.

[@Schrodingers_kid]

People should remember that disagreeing can be a debate, not an argument It's okay and, in my opinion, necessary to question things that are related to your safety

[@carbharharbcar5867]

idk i think hop has a fair bit of clout. he's certainly not as big as people like garand thumb but 1. that's not who he's opposing 2. his fans (me) are more dedicated than most social media personalities fans. that being said, your thesis is agreeable, this autistic focus on MY SAFETY DOCTRINE IS 100% CORRECT IF YOU DEVIATE YOU ARE A DANGER / YOUR HYPER DURABLE HOLOGRAPHIC OPTIC IS BAD BECAUSE WHAT IF IT RUNS OUT OF THE SAME BATTERY YOUR LIGHT AND NODS USE AND YOU HAVE 4 OF ON YOUR KIT is gay.

[@BlackDoomsOpinion]

​@user-ej4eq5im4r Debating is making arguments. It's a part of the process of debating.

[@Schrodingers_kid]

@@BlackDoomsOpinion debating and arguing are different things is my point

[@BlackDoomsOpinion]

@@Schrodingers_kid ar·gu·ment noun plural noun: arguments 1. an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one. "I've had an argument with my father" 2. a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong. "there is a strong argument for submitting a formal appeal"

[@TheLoneRanger745]

I agree with Hop , saftey ON at all times until your on target ! and I do like the 45° thumb On at all times, Not braking grip . I'd probably get a minis for mag catch extension , it's so much easier for my finger to find , it's exactly where I need it to be, I don't have to stretch and hunt for it. No bad lever .

[@loarmistead]

BAD levers for left-handed shooters are a cheap and relatively low profile way to get right-side bolt release functionality. After the right hand inserts the mag, the right thumb presses the tip of the BAD lever protruding through the trigger guard and drops the bolt. Maybe it wasn't designed with this in mind but I've used it like that in some high pressure/timed drills and it works great. Also lower profile than a right-side bolt release so it's much less likely to drop the bolt as it rubs against the shooter's gear. BAD Lever + Troy ambi mag release is the ultimate lefty combo.

[@Andrew-jm4tp]

Bro, you won the TFB rifle contest. James is a slimey lawyer.

[@Hoplopfheil]

Why did you say "lawyer" twice?

[@beebssqueebs3843]

When I saw him say your rifle should have backup iron sights, I was just like WHERE?

[@brittainwoolley6848]

Agreed that eotech needs to come into the 21st century by adding the "shake awake" feature to their optics.

[@KR4Qep]

i agree. my safety stays on until i'm on target and gets immediately flipped back to safe just after the last round gets sent. i think it's important to do extra when it comes to safety just so you have more safety engrained. it's better to have.. extra safety steps you can cut down on if that makes sense. the range is where i drill in these practices. so if anything ever does happen, it's already instilled in me to be as safe as possible if you're all loosey with safety, and shit hits the fan, you're much more likely to hit a friendly when adrenaline is pumping

[@GenericBrandDan]

As a GWOT era know it all, I can definitively say that you are right about the safety. Not every scenario is a felony stop or a 1970s stand off with Hawaiian 5.0, the GWOT taught us that your weapon is on safe until you are ready to fire and back on safe if you are not firing, and that's how you need to live your life....

[@Ihasanart]

Always love a sunstroke induced rambling rant vid from Hop, more please.

[@HondaWagovan]

You get a favorite because I like your stuff, and your void, such a chatty void. Makes me miss mine even more then I already do.

[@windsnowandstatic9075]

1: I’m with you on the safety usage. Taught that way in the in the mil (within this decade even). With enough reps it becomes so much second nature that if I’m not on target and shooting it’s on safe so I can quickly go to doing stuff with my hands or running, jumping, and climbing trees. Exactly as we did deployed and in a tussle or two. How pistols were handled with that was if still threats the pistol was under control in the hand. Lacking a sling option and all. Once the threats were not threats anymore or the use of hands became required the pistol went to holster. Where the trigger was now protected. Having spent some time training with LE guys they seem to mostly teach the same as you go by as well. 2: BUIS. That’s a fun one. Most of my rifles don’t have them. But I will not do a dot only pistol. For the home rifle it’s checked often for optic battery and if a rifle is going out to play (mostly courses and matches these days) swap some fresh batteries in and toss a couple spares in the storage spots. Granted I don’t expect my acog to go down without also likely having the rifle go down as well IME. But I wouldn’t also scoff at a department policy for BUIS to be required on a duty rifle. An optic going down at a match sucks, an optic going down in a fight and without something to go to on the spot is a sucking chest wound. 3: ambi safety for me is just too darn handy and easy. Ever since my deployment rifle got the okay to run one it’s just so simple to sweep safety off with thumb, sweep safety on with trigger finger especially with the 45°. If I’m running a 90° I prefer the non ambi GI style though. All in all with courses there’s always something new or different that can be learned if one is receptive to learning. But that doesn’t mean new and different is always better. And a good instructor has the be a perpetual student. Evolution is a needed part of someone honing a skill.

[@toysoldier6093]

Are range cats a thing at Thunder Ranch? If so, getting my wife to come with me to a course will be a much easier sell.

[@Hoplopfheil]

They have tons of excellent kitties on the ranch.

[@toysoldier6093]

@@Hoplopfheil hell yeah

[@41st_GRINCH]

Ambi selectors are also now standard issued on the M4A1, so people can't argue it's not true milspec these days.

[@ThePoorBoy]

Safeties exist for your safety and the safety of those around you. Stay safe.

[@408lurks]

Completely agree with safety manipulation. Ive had superiors a/d in a stack, in a low ready adjacent circumstance.

[@Trav_Can]

17:02 It's funny. Black cats seem to be the friendliest and most personable. And talkers. I'm not a big cat guy, but black cats are usually cool.

[@GunFunZS]

My wifes sure is. Also he kinda needs rough housing like a dog to be happy.

[@archipelago93]

I’m right handed, and ever since getting my first ambi-safety, I started using putting the right/trigger finger-side lever up and forward (as opposed to having it mirror the down/back of the safety on my thumb side). To me this is way more ergonomic, including: - Easier to flip on by pressing forward with my right index finger than up with my left thumb - Safer; eg if I’m actuating the safety on with my trigger finger, then by definition it’s also not on the trigger finger Literally the only excuse I’ve heard “recommended against that” is people saying “because [fill in the blank name] said so once.” Umm… ok. Once you have a legitimate reason based in logic and facts, then maybe I’ll listen. Otherwise try to think for yourself.

[@Caligari87]

I'm going to push back on this because the exact opposite actually happened to me. I'm left-handed, and I kept all my rifles right-handed because "there's no left-handed guns in the jungle." I trained thousands of dry and live reps using the trigger finger sweep you mentioned. I thought it was fine. Until I was in a match, shooting from an awkward position, moved a little too fast, and tried to sweep backwards to put the rifle on safe. My trigger finger curled in and pulled the trigger before the safety came on. I got hit with a match DQ, my first in four years of shooting matches. Immediately when I got home, I swapped for a left-handed safety. There's no reason I should be pulling my trigger finger backwards to put the gun on safe when I also pull my trigger finger backwards to fire the gun. Things might be different for you. Just saying 😊

[@BillyBobBoBilly]

@@Caligari87 When is a left-handed safety on a right-handed rifle loot message going to be added to UaS?

[@k-tz5jg]

Even the manufacture will tell you ambi safety is stew pud.

[@brandonschwertley2723]

was once part of the great field exercises of my mom's basement during 2020. Months of staying in the field without a shower, only MRE's and my rifle to keep me company. My Amazon red dot that had thousands of 5 star reviews died in the first week of the exercises. Good thing I had my Magpul plastic backup sight on there right out of the box. Didn't even need to zero it since it was on there from the manufacturer! If this is you, please go check your iron sights

[@CutlassOutdoors]

Hop may be an expert in the field of building a fighting carbine, but James is an expert in the field of persuading judges, proving once again that it doesn’t matter how right you are - what matters is how good your lawyer is. That said, I like iron sights being available. But everyone knows that Hop had the best gun. And I’ll submit that a laser IS a backup sight, even if it isn’t ideal.

[@SkinnyP3]

Hop made this because his rifle lost in the "whose best" at Thunder Ranch lmfao Still love this, you, and your content, Hop. You're the KING!

[@MysticMungusSlungus]

I can take or leave the bolt hold open on the right side of the rifle. The safety, however, is a necessary item. If you're trying to shoot your rifle in a precision manner, having that safety on the right side allows for easy manipulation with the way you're going to grip the rifle in the first place (thumb on the right side of the rifle). [note: right handed shooter]

[@captaindookey]

That safety on until on target is something my brother just does in one motion.

[@johndecker9983]

I had the most civil encounter with PAGUNGUY on this subject. I've always trained myself and others that on target, safety off, on the trigger, off the trigger, safety on, off the target. It's really quite simple. Great video as always 👍

[@dandexinventor]

I've seen (in person and at close range) two accidental discharges from shooters in progress of handling AR's so I agree, safety on until on intended target. Noone was hurt, but it's a major wake-up call to hear a round go off when none were supposed to! Anyone who is around shooting training enough does see even seasoned shooters flag others across the knees/feet. I'm sure I would learn a lot if I could attend TR training, but I'm going to have to rely on my thousands of hours training and experience starting in the Marines in 1981. I say that not to toute my own experience, but to say in spite of it, I have caught myself getting distracted when it mattered and muscle-memory, when I could not remember doing it, saved me from a possible major mastake. Because of my training, I keep in mind that all humans are going to make a mistake sooner, or later...I would rather it be mine having left the safety in the ON position to stop the other mistake of an accidental discharge from occuring. Training must occur when it sucks to be out in crappy conditions/awake when exhausted and is in my book, more important because that is when training pays-off. In my own opinion, I don't get enough of that kind of trainng after doing it a lot. Just a few hours ago, I was out in 108F heat dealing with it, dust, and a bad lot of ammo (good quality mfr too! Didn't see that one coming...) which caused short-stroking and forced me to troubleshoot on the fly. My thinking of why I train with firearms is about the next generations having at least as much opportunity to learn and live as I did so far. I see a quickly narrowing of our freedoms which my grandpa warned me about him noticing in the '70's. He fought in WWI and was in his 80's when he taught me not to take things for granted. Experience overides opionions and creates enough humility to learn that noone knows everything...stay teacheable and stay alive is what I have learned from my own, and other's mistakes. Don't close off options just to be the one that "was right", be the one thanking God for the wisdom to still be alive and well enough to protect those you love enough.

[@ryanvargas4889]

Thank you for the knowledge transfer. Lots of bio mechanics, fulcrums and synergy.

[@scottlewis2372]

Good watch. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@plaiddad276]

I totally agree with you about the safety and I've always done it your way even as an Army infantryman. I was never an "operator" so maybe then I could have been talked into changing. As a civilian patriot and part-time firearms instructor, I've never changed from my Army days. I also agree that a rifleman's manual of arms with the safety lever can legitimately be role-based.

[@TheeYellowDart]

As a lefty AR user I actually find the Magpul BAD lever really handy. I press with my thumb like a righty would use the bolt release for emergency reloads. Also, locking the bolt to the rear is very easy with the long bar; I can also do it without letting go of fire control with my left hand. Just my thoughts. Another great vid 😊

[@MrGhjkl63]

I agree on everything yiu said Hop. Safety is on and finger is off the trigger unless I'm shooting, backup irons are a must if you dont have an optic with an eons long battery life made of Vibranium and while I have a full ambi safety with a truncated offset lever on the right side of the lower it sits where my hand isnt going to move it unintentionally and Id love a bolt catch with a PDQ style lever on the right side to manipulate with my trigger finger for administrative stuff.

[@Chuck1284-]

I completely agree with the overwrought control levers/goodies and whatnot on rifles. But I'm a lefty and have put an ambi safety on both of my lowers because without one taking off the safety off breaks my shooting grip by having to maneuver my thumb around to the left side of the receiver. It saves also me time since I work the safety a LOT and put the safety on whenever I come off the target.

[@brittainwoolley6848]

I know I've made a bunch of comments, but overall this is a solid video and perspective. No matter the teacher or situation: it is the mark of an intelligent man to entertain an idea without accepting it as truth. In other words, you can understand and even appreciate why someone may do something or think a certain way without adopting the method or idea as your own.

[@ryanthorne5432]

The “On Target, On Trigger - Off Target, Off Trigger” practice works with any firearm, and it’s not a bad idea to develop that muscle memory if one regularly uses a wide variety of firearms. It can, and should, be done in conjunction with any manual safety, if the given firearm has one.

[@markbroad119]

I feel the safety on off things is like do you carry with one in the chamber. Keep one in the chamber because you may not have time to rack a round in. Safety off with finger off the trigger is enough for in case you need to pop off a shot.

[@TerminalM193]

I've actually taken both a carbine course & pistol course with ol' Pat Mac. I was stubborn in a few ways myself and with taking multiple classes over the years Pat was the first instructor to not only make me break a few habits but make it make complete sense. Everything the man teaches is practically gospel to me now.

[@CobraDBlade]

Left handed shooter here, the B.A.D. lever and similar bolt releases can be used by a southpaw. To drop the bolt after a reload you just tap it with the thumb on your right hand after inserting the mag. I found that I prefer to use an extended bolt release from Geissele and just actuate it with my left index finger however. Combined with an ambi mag release it allows me to do damn near everything with my trigger hand, though if I'm doing a reload where I retain the mag I once again just hit the normal mag release with my right thumb after gripping the mag.

[@praga2734]

i agree with keeping the safety on. another point about it is that keeping the safety off until ready to fire trains you for an unexpected situation where you need to immediately engage as soon as your rifle comes up. If you train as if your safety is already off then in a very high stress situation you may miss taking the safety off in your process

[@justanothergunnerd8128]

I agree with the Thunder Ranch instructors on the first two principles for a myriad of reasons - Mr. Hop is just wrong on those. If you've ever been in an L.E. or military situation where seconds, or less count - they count exponentially - your life literally depends on the next small action or reaction to a possible unforeseen threat or a known threat. I sort of agree on the last argument but not 100%. You can tell Mr. Hop has never served in L.E., military or corrections - or even armed security.

[@paulman1970]

I had to distinguish in my mind between Thunder Valley casino in northern California, and Demolition Ranch, when I saw Thunder Ranch. I'll sit down now.

[@alexanderm8880]

I like the ambi safeties that just have a shorter arm on the right side for sweeping with the index finger to reengage the safety.

[@davispinner6642]

I do safety off while raising to target in one fluid motion. I try not to break it down into steps but if I practiced enough it would become muscle memory for me.

[@andrewpinheiro7202]

You’ve been around this for long enough to know what works for you and what you’re comfortable with . change what you are comfortable changing if you believe it’s worth changing. Putting your safety on during a mag change is probably something you should consider changing oh yeah and the back up iron sight thing come on man it’s not like they’re heavy and batteries aren’t the only thing that can kill your optic. lol

[@traviscoombes3578]

I have an EOtech and magnifier on Unity mounts and there's no room for a rear sight. I got spare batteries in my stock.

[@Hoplopfheil]

Same reason I left them off of that NV gun. I would have to push the magnifier too far forward to accommodate a rear sight, and options for front sights with PEQs are not great.

[@kamikazekunze]

It’s gospel per Blackhawk Down. This is my safety. Index finger. 😂😂😂

[@patrickwright3485]

Thanks for the video. I like that you learned a lot but know that you still have to do what works for you

[@nateyerruedinger-quispe2362]

I think the Thunder Ranch doctrine of safety use makes more sense on rifles that do not use an AR-type safety selector. With an AK, for example, it really doesn't make sense to be constantly manipulating the safety; but with an AR, it is so easy to do that it very quickly becomes second nature and I doubt there is a meaningful difference in the speed at which you are able to get a shot off versus keeping the weapon on fire the entire time it is in a ready position. I tried training myself to use the safety on my M17 pistol the same way I use an AR safety, but found it much less intuitive. In particular, engaging the safety during reloads is awkward because the safety is already somewhat in the way of the slide stop, and with it engaged I find it impossible to hit the slide stop with my dominant hand thumb. I find it much more intuitive to disengage the safety the moment I draw and present the pistol, amd to engage it again right before returning it to the holster.

[@patricklee5576]

So appreciate all the vids and info!

[@taylorpestana1809]

I much prefer your method with the saftey especially from a training standpoint. I have been able to move to saftey off low ready (simply put) when “needed” in my experience, even though all my training is saftey on saftey on saftey on

[@Esch_atton]

You're telling me there was a cat there? Automatic 10/10

[@BravoJulietAlpha]

One emp and we are all using iron sights. I know certain optics are supposed to be shielded but nobody here has actually been in a situation to test that. Something to think about.

[@rhubarbpie2027]

I appreciate you ending more than one of your videos at 17:38 🤣🤣🤣

[@muskett4108]

I just miss the safety found on a SLR FN FAL.

[@jonvoightscar14]

Damn Hop, this was a great video!

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

On a personal note, since i have a modern AR and a retro AR, a 90° GI safety with an A1 grip and a Magpul 60° safety with a BCM grip puts my thumb at roughly the same position. The 60° is a shorter throw but the modern grip puts the shooters hand further rearward. I struggle to reach a 90° with a BCM grip but i can reach it perfect with an A1 grip. The guys at TR can have their opinions, but _YOU_ have to know what works for _YOU_ since its your gun.

[@556bc]

Wow, ThunderRanch's safety thing is wildly wrong. Use the safety. Always.

[@thefrogking481]

You learned that during your time in an active war zone? Your index finger is your safety when engaging combatants.

[@LeftThumbBreak]

On the ambi thing, the main deal for me is if you’re working on a skill or just on your rifle. I don’t see any big advantages, and I’d rather have a transferrable skills. For sure the BAD lever, is no go for me. It was always going off at the wrong time for me in rough handling.

[@distilledfreedom1840]

I look forward to your review of that gun. Carry handles always seemed reasonable to me. And yeah, the whole ambidextrous fad is just that.

[@Hoplopfheil]

Vid is already up on TFBTV

[@mediaistheenemy]

The safety "issue" is a flat range issue.

[@P226nut]

Never thought I’d disagree with pat mac, but here we are. Thunder ranch does safeties correctly imo

[@mattcomchoc2957]

Re: the safety thing. I've had a hard time deciding between the Hop and the TR way. I think the Hop way is the best for AR's, no doubt. My concern is that for every other weapon out there where the safety selector isn't in an optimized spot, it becomes NOT the best way, and I'm reluctant to create deep and unchangeable habits just because the AR happens to have an easy to use safety. Plus, there's a bit of a neuromuscular thing I've noticed where flicking the safety off tends to make that index finger curl in a bit, and this seems like it could maybe lead to an ND the way that they figured out that under stress cops who were clicking the MIC button on their radios while having a finger on the trigger with their weapon hands would have NDs because under stress that which you do with one hand will make the other hand do it a little bit as well.

[@APDECHO2]

No reputable LE agency should be teaching on target on trigger for an AR. Regardless of the status of the safety the trigger finger should remain outside the trigger guard until the conscious decision to shoot is made. The safety should always be manipulated with the mounting of the rifle. Mount the rifle safety off, break mount safety on. SWAT units that are teaching pre-selecting are stuck in the MP5 days and need to get with the times.

[@GodKronos1337]

Hop: what Acog is that? TA47?

[@Exmachinagamma]

Good vid. I'd get roasted because my rifle is an ambi-ready rifle, though I'm more right-handed. Having mbuis isn't a problem. I shoot out to 600m, I'm not trying to do anything to shoot out to longer distances with my fighting rifle.

[@adamcondon5120]

My Knights Armament AR is fully ambi, built into it

[@Samos900]

I wish MY mom was as cool as Hop..

[@chillumvillain6801]

As a person who doesn’t shoot at all (currently), due to legal reasons, I’m 100% about the teachings of Thunder Ranch. Life isn’t perfect, and they seem to train as such. EDIT: Except point 3.

[@lakemanson8051]

my favorite part of this video was the cat i think we need to hear more of their opinion on these topics

[@bpnelson7]

I think the idea of their safety concept is it is applicable to all platforms. Whereas your safety concept is almost exclusively applicable to AR platform.

[@FLCLnaota]

I just came here for the cat! Ok, well I see your points. I agree with the ambi stuff for some situations. And agree 100% with your take on saftey engagement. Just go to dry practice and burn the movements into your brain. One day I wish I could take a class like TR. One day, one day.

[@EmpTy-kf2rq]

I was also taught to do the same 3 items you mentioned and made it a habit.

[@stickpanda2011]

As a lefty I decided to go with an ambi lower because no matter how much you train it still isn’t as quick as someone who is right handed. Now saying that I also I have setup so all rifles have the exact same controls. I don’t have two or three different ambi lowers just one style. Everything is identical.

[@DirtyBirdDiesel]

Incorrect ambi safety is a must thumb down under up. Thumb to fire index to safety.

[@Chevydude1982]

i do the same thing, safety on till im ready to shoot. its safer and i can have the safety off and the trigger prepped and ready for my target. thats y i prefer a 2 stage trigger cause it just gives me a little more room for error. i dont like ambi controls either but i do like the bad lever for faster malfunction clearing. thats all i use it for,if my triggers dead i hit the bad lever and clear the malfunction but remember it doesnt matter what anyone likes or dis likes. set ur gun up for you and use whatever u want that allows u to run that gun to ur full potential but u should be a master of the basics first before u start adding a bunch of crap to ur gun.

[@groberts1980]

If I don't have backup iron sights I do keep backup batteries stored on the gun. Backup sights are a good idea but I don't consider them critical.

[@Andiskywalker8]

Huh, I realize I am very much into the TR way of manipulating the trigger and it is also the way I teach it. Never had a safety issue. Always felt a little uncomfortable teaching it, though, because everybody else seemd to obsess about reenganging the trigger all the time. Now I feel somewhat vindicated. Thanks for the info.

[@Drmcclung]

I can understand why they teach it the way they do, considering the amount of urban rifle cosplayers who cause accidents both on and off the range.

[@tsufordman]

BAD lever is just that. Seen more DQs at matches from BAD related NDs than anything.

[@dylanbond1627]

It's just an anecdote but my buddy's EOTech drifted on a pretty rugged run n gun course, while my Leupold mk6 didn't have a problem. EOTech confirmed the failure and sent him a new one but he runs a Razor 1-6 now. I wouldn't say that LPVOs are objectively less durable than EOTechs.

[@thelearnedgoat]

You wouldn’t engage the safety on your pistol (if equipped), during a shoot out, so why do it with your rifle? I was taught that you only engage your rifle safety when the threat(s) is no longer present or you need to move.

[@brittainwoolley6848]

"OK, fine! Jesus Christ!" - 🤣

[@brittainwoolley6848]

I've been completely hands free with my plate carrier and an Ambi 45° safety + mag release (irrelevant here) and have not yet once had an issue with the safety engaging by rubbing against my "kit." Not saying it couldn't occur, but that has been my experience.

[@raifsevrence]

TBH, all your videos are good, but this one was great.

[@billparks7368]

Great range rant!!! 😂 It is what it is. 🤷👍

[@RocksNRuts4]

do u have safeties on your edc pistols? and can u and JR use your peep holes or youre using the post thru the optic? as bkup

[@Spore1018]

Funny thing with ambi controls. the newer M4s I can get my hands on come with ambi selectors from FN.

[@newdefsys]

The thing I learned about Thunder Ranch is that you can go from 3rd place to 1st place, for 50 bucks.

[@pjshooter6]

Thunder ranch is teaching how we trained in the 90s . We actually did many courses at thunder ranch. Military cqb training