Horween Dublin vs. Chromexcel (Veg Tan vs. Chrome/Combo Tan)

Horween Dublin is veg tanned cowhide with a wax finish. Horween Chromexcel is combo tanned cowhide. Here's my hobbyist perspectives on these two leathers, how they wear, care, and age - everything I like and don't like about them in one video.
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[@Bootlosophy]

David, I keep coming back to this video every couple of months to remind myself of how great CXL and Dublin should look! I miss your videos mate, and you really need to do an update of these three pairs.

[@todtalk3912]

For not being a pro, I learned a lot from this video right here. Good job man. Excellent job really. Honestly, your way of explaining everything may not be how someone who works at a leather manufacturer would, but it was easy to follow and very informative. Thanks for info.

[@AshlandLeather]

Another great vid. Appreciate the shout out -- happy to answer any CXL or leather questions people might have

[@georgecarlin2879]

Can U add your thoughts on the properties of CXL vs Veg tanned vs horsebutt? Horsebutt is not Shell Cordovan, correct?

[@AshlandLeather]

@@georgecarlin2879 In a boot context: I find the CXL to be more comfortable as it conforms nicely around my foot. The CXL tends to have a tighter break (where the toe flexes) especially when compared to veg. Having said that, there are "loose" sections of the hides of CXL that a shoemaker should avoid -- you can see piping and a loose break on CXL if the person cutting the pattern doesn't check for loose grain. I like veg -- it is more rugged. Tends to have a more coarse break. Looks a bit more rugged and I think it ages and accumulates patina more dramatically. As for horsebutt -- you need to be a little more specific here but I think you may be referencing horsebutt CXL. This is Chromexcel tanned from the hindquarters of a horse. The shell is in the hindquarters of a horse and every equine animal (zebra, donkey, mule, etc). For horsebutt CXL the shell membrane is not exposed so you don't get the smooth, glassy look of shell but you do get a more dense and rigid (perhaps tougher, more durable) piece of leather. I find it to be a little too firm and tough to break in. The horsebutt CXL also tends to be a bit more grainy and has more pronounced hair holes (grain). To answer your question: Horsebutt does not always mean shell cordovan. However, all shell cordovan is horsebutt. Bottom line: just go with what you think looks cool. A reputable tannery will make a durable leather. It is more about looks, comfort, and feel.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Glad you enjoyed it, Phil! And absolutely- always excited to point people your way. I’ve learned so much from you and hope others do too. Thanks for checking in to answer people’s questions too👊🏽👍🏽

[@TehDFC]

@@thevintagefuture6567 It's both fun and informative watching Phil play with leather he he he.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

The DFC 🤣 I know, right?!

[@linentweed3994]

Really appreciate the well-articulated comparison. No need to choose one when I can enjoy the beauty of them all.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Linen & Tweed I’m so glad this added something to your perspective! Thank you for taking the time to watch👍🏽 Blessings to you👊🏽

[@InGrindWeCrust2010]

This was super helpful. And I love that you take care of your boots without over-conditioning them.

[@DalesLeatherworks]

man you're so right about those color 8 chromexcel vibergs, they are so damn pretty. yours in particular look SO good!! you won the CXL lottery with those. mine actually have a ton of loose grain that has revealed itself over time

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Haha thanks! Yeah, Viberg has gotten better at clicking as far as I see

[@Kingfisher1215]

I have two pairs of boots from Dublin leather. One is a wolverine 1000 mile special edition called the Kraus boot. It was made by Allen Edmonds for Wolverine I believe. The other pair is Sauk Drive by Allen Edmonds. The Krause boots are amazing in that all you do is brush them and they shine. The Sauk drive have perforations which doesn't polish quite as shiny.

[@alienwrkshopprz]

I love how the brown one looks. Theyve got a lot character. I recently got a pair of john lofgren moc toes and they look like they will age like your burgundy pair. Their my first pair of chromexcel boots and after i touched them i felt like my hands were super greasy. 😂

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Jan Patrona oh awesome! Moc toes are super comfy, yet rugged👍🏽 Congrats on those. And glad you like my brown pair! They’re definitely special, the ones that feel most like home. I too am adoring how they’ve worn in. Thanks!

[@georgecarlin2879]

Thanks everyone for your comments and sharing your thoughts and knowledge, it was a pleasure reading all of it!!

[@thevintagefuture6567]

George Carlin2 of course! And thank YOU for contributing to the discussion as well. It’s a community of people, not just things 👊🏽

[@todtalk3912]

You should contact the top 3 leather manufacturers, get the some sq ft of each kinds of boot leathers they sell to manufacturers and then go over them all in a video. That would be pretty cool to see. Then you can bend them in a clamp for x amount of time and see which you can get back. You can scratch them and see which come back easily. You can also show the rough out colors and advantages of each. There is tons of content to make on this topic. Although alot exists, its still nice to get a diff opinion.

[@pixxburgh420]

Okay..dude. I'm so confused.. well, actually let me put it like this, for anyone who isn't in to boots like we are, but saw these videos anyway. This guy's channel and his content, is the equivalent of a brand new youtuber just starting out, who lets say is into guitars. And the first 5 videos he puts out on his channel, are interviews with Eric Clapton, Eddie van Halen, jimi hendrix, jimmy page, and stevie ray vaughn. This is incredible stuff. Anyways, thank you so much for all this info. Its nice to know that someone else can also nerd out over the wrinkles on their boots! Hahahha

[@thevintagefuture6567]

pixxburgh 420 🤣🤣🤣I love the way you put that. And as a musician and total rocker, lemme say I’m totally honored and encouraged by that comparison! Thanks so much for stopping in, and I’m glad you’re finding the content worthwhile👍🏽 Peace n blessings👊🏽

[@georgecarlin2879]

@@thevintagefuture6567 U're a musician too!? What do U play? Guitar or?

[@thevintagefuture6567]

George Carlin2 in order of proficiency: vocals, drums, rhythm guitar, piano. I take it you play an axe? 😆

[@gress12000]

I love the beat up boot the most.

[@DalesLeatherworks]

back revisiting this one, such a great video dude!!!!!!! love the demonstration of the scratching and the pullup on chromexcel!!! excellent point about the CXL retaining its oils and fat content for many years. they seriously don't need to be conditioned for a long, long time. thanks dave for an excellent video and for keeping interest in this hobby thriving!!!!!!!

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Thanks man, haha! Yeah, your conditioning advice changed my life big time!! And then talking to Phil gave me more confidence that CXL doesn’t need much help

[@DalesLeatherworks]

@@thevintagefuture6567 absolutely! i think it's a good thing to remind people that CXL won't suddenly disintegrate on you :-D

[@thevintagefuture6567]

@@DalesLeatherworks 😂Amen

[@waxedearth5425]

Awesome video and perspective 👍🏻

[@CheatcodeGlitch]

I’m pretty new to boots and absolutely love your channel. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with is!

[@trekdnb]

Picked up the Viberg brown CXL service boot a few weeks ago. Nice boots.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

trekdnb nice! Enjoy them! I hope they do you well👍🏽

[@stokermat112]

Nice!

[@irabucc469]

Beautiful boots. Dude, what brand and model are those boots? I love that they are cap toe but the toes are so not round almost like plain toe. If you have mentioned in the video then I apologize, I admit that I didn't 100% focus the whole video.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

They’re Viberg 👍🏽

[@va7oloko]

Great video. Torn between ordering a pair of engineer boots in brown CXL or W&C natural double stuffed. Kinda scared of the break in on the double stuffed. Is the RW oiled tanned the same or similar to veg tan? Ty

[@thevintagefuture6567]

If they fit right, the break in is nothing to fear, unless you get the full on logger work boots….RW oil tanned is kind of it’s own thing. As it sounds, it is indeed kinda oily and tough as nails. Veg is also tough, but not quite as resilient as chrome tanned and oiled tanned in some scenarios. For most people, it literally doesn’t matter at all; just buy what you like the look and feel of.

[@bravobear1844]

Wow that Brown CXL looks awesome.. not the creasing for me tho 😅 I didn’t wanna risk looking down and see “bad” creasing at the vamp on my bounty hunters, so I chose olive waxed flesh for the lower and brown CXL for the shaft. PS I chose a medallion cap toe in the same waxed flesh😅 It’s hard not to mention all aspects of some boots, especially one as customizable as whites/Bakers boots

[@thevintagefuture6567]

BravoBear thanks! And, I like your thinking👊🏽 Waxed flesh (especially in olive) is such an attractive leather, and being a roughout does not crease like the smooth-out CXL. I’d love to see a picture of your Bounty Hunters. Did you go through Bakers?

[@bravobear1844]

@@thevintagefuture6567 Bakers indeed! Such a straight forward process, and in 8 weeks I’ll send you the photos as I’ve only recently placed the order.. 😂 and your video about olive waxed flesh Vibergs was what sold me, so thanks 👍

[@thevintagefuture6567]

BravoBear nice! Cheers to Bakers 🍺🥳 Can’t wait, for your sake! I’m waiting for some Nicks....I have been sized through Bakers fit some Whites but haven’t pulled the trigger yet cuz I’m not sure exactly what I want🤣Yours really do seem amazing, and I’m glad the video helped. Here’s another makeup in that OWF that I’m particularly fond of: instagram.com/p/CE4ZQPnJoyZ/?igshid=1bwsgzkl8sop3

[@bravobear1844]

@@thevintagefuture6567, thx! And yes that make up does look great, I’m sure I’ve seen it before also (research purposes)😂 but knowing myself I would get bored with the all waxed flesh sooner or later, it does add some patina points (wax fading) but that won’t last. I wouldn’t mind a boot in all waxed flesh if it was 6” tall, but I wanted a 10” tall boot 😅 a lot of CXL!

[@darktimbercustomknives6248]

This might sound like a dumb question, but where does Whites double shot fall into these groups if you’re not sure, no problem just kind of curious

[@thevintagefuture6567]

I haven't tried double shot unfortunately. I've been told it's like CXL but with more of a matte appearance, but probably best to ask someone who has used it.

[@bonecollector1968]

Great comparison video..well done

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Thanks!

[@terriwinn9651]

what are the brand of boots you are showing ?

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Viberg

[@krystjanchanerley9288]

How durable is veg tan leather for wet weather?

[@thevintagefuture6567]

It’s ok, not the greatest, if you’re gonna use it a TON in bad weather. But if you’re only gonna soak it every so often, it really doesn’t matter what kind of leather it is, as long as it’s quality. No quality leather is gonna be delicate and easy to ruin. And then if the weather is super bad (snow and salt), you probably shouldn’t be using leather, or at least covering your leather with a sealant... Chrome or combo or oil tan is best for harsh weather if you’re gonna go in the rain a lot etc. All that said, Dublin is one of the most resilient veg leathers cuz they hot bake wax into the leather. Also, strong veg leathers (like harness leather for horse saddles etc) is super strong and impervious to weather, so you can’t generalize. Oak tanned leather is another category of real strong leather; often mid-soles etc are made of oak tan leather.

[@TehDFC]

Thanks for the vid.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

The DFC absolutely! Thanks for stopping in and watching.

[@vhockada]

New to boots but with as nice and beautiful the Thursday boots are, I find it hard to understand why one would spend $1,000 on those Vibergs over a $200 pair of Thursdays that have the exact same silhouette. If any of you say they’re longer lasting, I’d say I have $800 left over to fix that. Or just buy 4 more thursdays.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so if you love Thursdays, no need for anything else. That said, many people would much prefer Viberg if they experienced Viberg boots, and some of those people would see it as worth it. Some don’t mind spending big bucks if they want something bad enough.

[@mrandmrscorona8658]

Amazing close ups at 5:10

[@jj4483love]

I just think CXL is a masterpiece of leather tanning that has stood the test of time. This new experimental cordovan veg tanned dublin just has extremely poor grain break and low flexibility, and it's not a natural earth tone color. New isn't always better, I think CXL is the objectively superior leather for boots without a doubt, and I believe Phil from Ashland leather would agree. I would go for British Tan CXL or an nice tan calfskin or tan pebble grain over any dublin. Dublin wallets and belts are really nice though.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

You bring up a really good point! Very well said. When something is tried and true, its brilliance usually contains more than meets the eye….What’s interesting is, my appreciation for CXL has actually grown immensely since I made this video. Time for an update video….And yes, Phil would totally agree!….The one thing that I still find annoying is that some companies use CXL too often, where some variety would be nice. But as you said, it’s a great leather, so I see why they use it. It’s become a staple of my collection, in brown and black and C8. Wouldn’t wanna live without it.

[@jj4483love]

That being said, I might end up eating my words and getting some dublin boots, they just look so cool

[@thevintagefuture6567]

@@jj4483love oh yeah, Dublin is great! Structured like veg but soft almost like some chrome tanned leathers. I like its waxed surface much better than its sibling tannage Essex.

[@Ov3r0bs3ss1on]

Hi David! Upon revisiting this video a couple years later, I'm left wondering if you still reach for the Dublin boots the most out of your collection? Also, do you happen to have a favorite leather nowadays? Thanks, and take care!

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Hey! Thanks for checking in again! Yes, I still love Dublin; it is still one of my most favorite leathers. I don't have any Dublin in my rotation currently, but I will at some point in the future. Just waiting for the right makeup. I really love how Dublin ages and I love how it's softer than most other veg tans but has more character than chrome and combo tanned leathers. Definitely one of my top 3 leathers still.

[@UTubeandChill]

You see that grain break between those two pairs of CXL boots? Try getting those vastly different grain breaks on The Same pair of boots. That's what I lucked out with. They were a pair of brown CXL chukkas and one boot in the pair was perfect while the other was garbage. One boot developed perfect grain break with an ideal deep luster shine that CXL can develop, like David's color 8 CXL, and the other book developed awful creases that marred most of the vamp, like David's brown CXL except worse. Ironically I still managed to develop the deep luster shine on the garbage boot. it was like shining up shit. I eventually got so disgusted with them that I donated them. They were still in perfect functional shape with years of sole left, so whoever picks them up will get a pair of boots that will last a while and I doubt they'll be bothered by the crazy creasing. Nice video, David. I like those Dublins. P.S. Why are you thinking about a movie like 50 Shades while doing a leather video? (busted!...😁)

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Whoa, that’s a super crappy situation you found yourself in with those chukkas! 😂 Bummer! That brings the CXL lottery to a whole new level! Haha....and so funny, I completely forgot I had even said that 50 shades comment 😆

[@georgecarlin2879]

I find brushing, conditioning and polishing boots rather meditative and zen like relaxing, so I guess I'm a CXL type guy..haha! Having said that, of the non shiny leathers- Rambler, Commander, Mohawk, Waxed flesh, etc, which type do U like best?

[@thevintagefuture6567]

George Carlin2 haha! I love that you love caring for your boots! My brother is like that. I don’t hate it, but I don’t love it. I do like the brushing part a lot.....As for the waxy leathers: waxed flesh and commander get boring too fast- they are basically roughout leather, which is cool but not unique. Mohawk and Rambler are really cool. I have never experienced Mohawk in real life and have only briefly owned one Rambler boot, but after obsessively watching all the Rambler and Mohawk videos by my friend Dale (@aerosurferlv - check out his channel), I think Rambler takes first place. Especially stone rambler. Looks like real rocks🤣 Which do you like?

[@georgecarlin2879]

@@thevintagefuture6567 Oh, I've binge watched Dale's videos alot, some repeatedly! LMAO!! Well, I like the Squirrel, which i ordered, along with Cognac Bison Upland and Snuff Veldt Kudu Upland. So 3 pairs from Truman. I like Smoke Rambler but I think I need to hold off for awhile. I also have Thursday's made in USA Logger in Waxed Cacao (Java basically) arriving hopefully tomorrow and 2 pairs from Beckett- Nolan brogues in Bordeax and Gallgher boots in Tan. So , that's 6 pairs ordered in the last 5 wks. Plus Danner hikers that arrived about 2 wks ago, I'm done for the year! SMH!

[@thevintagefuture6567]

George Carlin2 WOW! Those boots are all AWESOME makeups! Enjoy those, my friend. I’d be especially interested to know how you like the Thursday loggers, simply because I haven’t heard much about them.

[@georgecarlin2879]

@@thevintagefuture6567 i shall do so if I ever get them or another pair shipped, UPS is doing an investigation- apparently lost in transit (tis the season for boot thieves I guess), the Thursday Loggers are part of their Made in USA lineup.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

George Carlin2 omg...I hope they find them!

[@frankrizzo7185]

I would like to see if grant stone has a blutcher shoe version with dublin and leather soles. J crew alden have a nice model that I like, I have a suede pair that fit me really well and are super-comfortable. On a recent trip to Disneyworld, 99% of people worr sneakers but I wore my j crew alden suedes. Are there any shoes similar to that last with Dublin leather? You sold me on Dublin. I already have cxl with my allen edmonds higgins mill boots with dainites which are fantastic. Great channel btw! Honest and thorough.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

PN Captainpn so glad you enjoy the videos! And I love the story about your Aldens! Grant Stone has something like what you want in Badalassi leather, which is a very nice veg tan leather from Italy, roughly similar to Dublin. The blucher is not on leather sole, but they have a boot version that is on a leather sole. Link: instagram.com/p/BsZM9QlhFim/?igshid=13gak6gn2dqqo

[@BlackForestAnbu]

how do you maintain that cxl? how often should i condition and brush my cxl?

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Pain depends how you use it. Wearing it strictly indoors for just fashion? Just brush every few days and condition once a year lightly, maybe every 6 months if you like. Or under the same conditions, if you want a more rugged look, you can condition once every two years, sometimes even three (CXL is VERY VERY hydrated - does not need much conditioning). If the boots get dirty a lot, condition every 4 to 6 months lightly and brush every few days. None of this is a fine science, nor does it need to be because CXL is so hydrated from the tannery. And any ole conditioner will do; don’t let people make you overthink it. VSC, Bick 4, Smith’s, Armstrong’s, Saphir Renovator- they all work. If you want no shine- Bick 4. If you want minimal shine, VSC is just fine. If you want extra waterproofing, something super waxy like Armstrong’s. But as far as the actual conditioning part? They all will do just fine in the long run.

[@BlackForestAnbu]

@@thevintagefuture6567 thank you for the answer sir. now i can rest with the research how to take care of my boot. ill subscribe.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Pain 🙏🏽

[@1k1ngst0n]

do you recommend shoe trees?

[@thevintagefuture6567]

I only recommend wood shoe trees when 1. You want to keep the vamp from collapsing or creasing and 2. When you need the wood tree to absorb moisture from inside the boot. Other than that, I don’t use trees. I only use them with certain pairs, the ones I wanna keep nice.

[@Eugenetra7]

I would definitely go for vag tan, I like that pair most of all) Although that burgundy one also looks very nice.

[@mattno8074]

How do you avoid getting those gnarly wrinkles/creasing on your beat up brown boots? I have some redback boots where the "grain break" I think you called it, on my left boot is fine and subtle and not as noticeable, but on my right it's the big ugly wrinkles.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Matt No nothing you can do. It’s a characteristic of that part of the animal’s hide that was cut. “Better” brands are pickier about which parts of the hide they cut, but even then sometimes a loose spot gets through. Does that make sense? It’s like: your belly skin and armpit skin will be stretchier than the skin in the upper middle part of your back. Same with cows. That part was already more prone to stretching and wrinkling when it was still on the cow’s body. Now it’s on your right boot.

[@mattno8074]

@@thevintagefuture6567 Oh Ok that makes sense. That's a bummer. I appreciate the response!

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Matt No yeah! One thing you can do is buy leathers that are known for very little creasing (or embrace the creasing- I actually enjoy some creasing). Calf or shell and some other leathers are known for little to no creasing. Or buy from a company like Grant Stone known for meticulous clicking (leather cutting and selection). Cheers!

[@frankrizzo7185]

@@thevintagefuture6567 another suggestion is if possible buy the actual boots in-person as I did with my Allen Edmonds Higgins Mills (CXL).

[@thevintagefuture6567]

@@frankrizzo7185 this is an insightful perspective to add; thank you! Yes, I so easily forget that. In-person purchasing, when possible, removes a myriad of obstacles. I only recently experienced this with my first trip to a local Alden store. Thanks again👍🏽

[@joaopinto2464]

Hey great video. And great taste in footwear! I kind identify myself in your experience with this vibergs ! I have the exact same colour 8 vibergs and mine look also very good , i guess I won the lottery. I also have a pair in natural chromexcel and they don’t look so perfect but they re also kind for beet up and the colour 8 are the dressier boots . I have a question, what do you use to treat your Dublin leather . I just bought a pair of Parkhurst in natural Dublin, they re my first veg tan boots and I can’t find anything about conditioning or care for Dublin leather ! You could make a video about it I think will be very popular, there’s a lack of content about this subject on line and you seem to have experience and knowledge about footwear . Keep the nice work , very cool content !

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Wow! So so glad you love the video! I just really wanna share the passion and help people as I was helped early on….I use Bick 4 on Dublin because Dublin has a waxed surface, so I don’t wanna unnecessarily add to the wax with waxy conditioners like Venetian Shoe Cream or Shapiro Renovatour. Those waxy ones won’t hurt it, but the Dublin has no need for the wax, and adding wax detracts from the patina I feel because it fills in surface characteristics I’d rather leave intact. Bick 4 does the trick!

[@joaopinto2464]

@@thevintagefuture6567 yeah very cool videos , I think I’ve saw almost all of your content . I can tell you’re content is very characteristic from you, it has personality and I think your KZbin channel will grow a lot in the future ;) thanks for the answer and help , I reached out horween and they’re answer was and I quote : “ Dublin is a waxed version of Essex. You can use small quantities of neutral waxes or creams. We would suggest cleaning the surface first with a slightly damp cloth, allow it to dry, and then put your wax or polish on in small quantities. We always recommend applying to a small area first to see that the results are satisfactory. Some customers like to do their own antiquing. If this is the desired result they should apply paste polishes (like some black on a natural color). Again, in small quantities, until the desired result is achieved. All the best, Natalie Horween “ But for me was the same , I still didn’t knew what to use . Thanks for the help and keep the good work ;) il be watching

[@thevintagefuture6567]

@@joaopinto2464 thanks for that wonderful affirmation! And cool that Horween answered you. Yeah, I would just use Bick 4 👍🏽

[@joaopinto2464]

@@thevintagefuture6567 yeah il try Bick4 , it definitely won’t harm or change the tone of the leather. Thanks for the help ! Greetings

[@dontorres2055]

You mentioned clicking, what is clicking.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

Sorry I didn’t define that. Clicking is the leather selection process, when they cut portions of the hide to use in a boot or wallet or belt. So, good clicking means they clicked or selected quality portions of the hide, whereas poor clicking yields ugly portions or compromised portions of the hide. It’s called clicking because of the clock sound the leather knives used to make when they cut leather by hand in the older days.

[@dontorres2055]

@The Vintage Future thanks still trying to learn as much as I can. New to boots in the last year,I'm 9 pairs in this year. Wife said no more.

[@thevintagefuture6567]

@@dontorres2055 sounds fun! And yeah, always best to listen to the wife 😂 My wife has asked to halt my collection a couple times, and it’s been healthy for us.

[@victorpelayo8014]

What brand and style are these boots?

[@thevintagefuture6567]

All of them are: Viberg 2030 Service Boot