How a company turned used Nissan Leaf EV batteries into moneymakers

[@RaglansElectricBaboon]

Great to see this happening. We've been working on something similar in NZ for a couple of years and it's so true, there's loads of research money for the 'science projects' but nobody seems to see it as real and possible now. I'm slightly gutted we weren't first but I'm absolutely stoked to see it happening. Great job Lancaster and great reporting @Canary Media

[@FG-vf7pq]

Thank you telling us all - do you have a website or contact details? Are you in production?

[@briananthony4044]

Great to hear REB, as another Kiwi I am stoked your doing this.

[@podunkpennsylvania292]

Ignore the naysayers. They just want to be where you are at. Get r done

[@yukikobayashi886]

I live so damn close I'm gonna have to go check it out my self XD, land is dirt cheap out here too so it wouldn't be a bad investment

[@scorpion9500]

Good luck!

[@HyperMario64]

My man's really farming these batteries, that's real value created here. Hope it continue to grows like that, you love to see good money being made this way!

[@jbranche8024]

Yes, getting full use of batteries serving different services is beneficial. A couple of potential challenges I see for this business is the Automaker decides the battery is proprietary and leases them to customer were they are returned to dealer when replaced. It would be a profit play for an evil company. Next with little standardization the plugs or connectors may change causing the power storage company to replace cables, connectors and equipment to support the battery storage. Hope for a better world though.

[@ryuuguu01]

It is now 2023 June. Just checked their website and they are now up 25 MWh from 4MWh when the video was made.👍

[@Parlof96]

That is awesome. Did not realize this video was 2 years old when I clicked - thanks for the update.

[@quad-z-moto2338]

First there was a black market for catalytic converters... Now, I gotta lock my Leaf up at night. 😨 Actually, this is awesome.

[@seneca983]

I'd imagine the battery of an EV is much harder to remove surreptitiously than a catalytic converter.

[@marktunney5000]

Yeah. There's a whole new breed of car jacking coming.

[@beebob1279]

Funny comment but a good point all the same

[@matthewspry4217]

There are no high value materials contained within and they weigh 500kg I don't think you need to worry 👍

[@beebob1279]

@@matthewspry4217 That was information I wanted. I wanted to know their weight. Thanks. I wonder if these systems could be built for a home system instead of commercial

[@TheAmbientUniverse]

It's a relief that at least someone out there knows how to use Nissan to make money.

[@VLAPP0]

LMAO

[@RichsRandomRetroReviews]

Please don't embed closed captions on videos. Spend the time to put them on properly to allow the viewer to turn them on or off.

[@s0012823]

Great! Batteries don't have to be in 100% condition. 80% is fine for this kind of solutions, it could take years if you take good care of it. Now we need some companies that can recycle these thingsfor almost 100% with profit or with some financial support that they don't end up in the ocean.

[@ruud560]

They you throw 20 percentage away

[@TransRightsMatter]

The standard rule is 100%-80% original life. Second life capacity is normally 80%-1% with low self draining. Self draining (internal resistance) and energy capacity are not linear so there is no such thing as battery "condition" percentage. ruud560 is correct, in that, it may become non viable, at 20%, price per space.

[@odw32]

Li-Cycle is a company which does this. They have a special closed-loop grinder which completely crushes everything from power tool batteries to whole EV battery packs in a safe way, and through a series of filters it spits out sorted plastic, aluminum and lithium/cobalt/nickel which can be reprocessed into new cells.

[@AaronHuffmanPerson]

Reuse before Recycle, I love it!!

[@HygienistDentist]

He should make his company public. I would love to support and help grow this

[@getinthespace7715]

No. Keep it private and maintain complete control without all the added accounting and bureaucracy associated with taking a company public. IPO's are great if you want to cash out of a successful company and don't care about it anymore.

[@GarrickSturgill]

he should not go public he should stay private so big industry does not destroy it

[@Yakomoe]

Then Blackrock can buy it and put a rainbow paint job on it and use to power the tools to groom your kids.

[@raviatm]

@@Yakomoe seek help

[@whatta7793]

@@raviatm truth hurts?

[@michaelkelly7932]

Thanks for the information! This is a case where commercial market increased demand to the point that Off-grid solar users like myself can no longer get affordable Solar batteries. In December 2020 every supplier had used Nissan Leaf G1 batteries for around $2000 for a 24KW Battery Pack shipped tested and straight from Nissan, by February 2021 there was no supply to be found for under $6000 per pack. In around 5 more years this company will be reselling the ones they bought used for a greater price than they paid for them and at a lower energy capacity. It is good for them, but terrible for those of us who live off grid and depend on alternative energy solutions!

[@deepsleep7822]

Will there be batteries available from other vehicles?

[@jfbeam]

Depends on your definition of affordable. Better cells can be ordered directly from suppliers in China. (plenty of discussion on the various diy solar forums) If you have local junk yards, and live where there are plenty of EVs getting wrecked (i.e. CA), it's not too hard to find undamaged units.

[@jfbeam]

@@deepsleep7822 Yes. There are today, and have been for as long as there have been EVs. Leaf, Volt, Bolt, Tesla, BMW, Ford, VW, ... (stay away from the Prius and hybrids, those tend to be NiMH)

[@FJB2020]

You can buy brand new sever rack 48v lifepo4 batteries for around $300 kwh... even cheaper if you want to import them yourself.

[@michaelkelly7932]

@@FJB2020 Yeah, I really liked it better when I could get 90% cells for $70 per KW shipped. I've been off grid solar for 20+ years and started with 18650's about 10 years ago putting together 4kw packs and worked my way to Nissan G1's about 6 years ago. But, I have a limited budget so it just leaves me out when li-ions jump to 4x the price because they are being bought up by commercial interests.

[@yeahboyiiiii222]

TSLA just cuts the duff batteries out of the system. Each battery has a fuse wire and if the cell fails the fuse breaks the circuit. Sometimes they must cut cells manually. That’s how they “Repair / refurbish” TSLA battery packs. So this is a great way to store energy and use batteries long term.

[@noluck33]

Right simple logic, the battery may not be good in a vehicle but will still hold a great charge for this use. Thanks!

[@rlabatt]

Nearly two years later, is it possible for Canary or B2U to give an update. I'm curious about progress with this project

[@gregh7457]

B2U reaches 25 MWh storage capacity at California facility with 1,300 used Honda and Nissan EV batteries Published Feb. 7, 2023

[@davidbeattie4294]

Wonderful that this project is giving a second life to batteries that would otherwise be recycled. Its critical that we find ways like this to maximize the huge investment in energy, resources and pollution that went in to creating the batteries in the first place.

[@3weight]

I wonder if bad weather days make the charge fall short, and if so, do they buy low from the grid at peak hours for resale that night?

[@richardroberson9277]

175$/mwh moved and at a cost of 100$/kwh .175$/kwh moved 571 cycles to break even on these old air cooled leaf batteries ignoring any capex whatsoever. these have to run perfectly for some 2 years without diminishing "mining" difficulty as more batteries come online. prices cannot go lower than 0 and dual axis/east-west biased panels can start to push down on the price peak not that it matters much as you have all evening to discharge but the sharpest point can be blunted. with realistic capex etc, it does seem like youd have to have perfect operation for well over 3 years to even break even or nearly 1000 cycles which im not sure if these leaf batteries are up to in the hot desert either. the questionbecomes is this more worthwhile than recycling the batteries for metals to make new tech batteries vs their value to move power, oddly if the cycles can get higher id say yes as the cost to recycle them etc vs just use them as stationary storage should become more favorable if anything. model 3 batteries are good for thousands of cycles...however this means itll take a long time to have any supply. these all come from totaled cars im guessing

[@TheMrTape]

Math, logic, and capitalization, you ain't too good at it. Just gonna say that those $100 are for the building including first set of batteries, because this shit is too stupid to argue at length.

[@MiesvanderLippe]

Prices are negative regularly in the Netherlands. Using power actually gains you money under some circumstances. Leafs have been around for ages so some chassis are well worn out. Same for the Prius etc. You’re also misjudging the value of delivering rapid response capacity. Examples may be a cloud cover coming in. The grid needs a more rapid ramp up in power than many plants can supply. This is very expensive.

[@scp8412]

@@MiesvanderLippe both good points. They can store 4Mw and make 175$ per, seems like not much profit?

[@pierrex3226]

It should be an annuity business. Assuming no theft and what not, this thing should run itself for decades. When you install panels on your roof the break even point, with tax incentives, is usually between 5 and 10y, which is still great, because you have a robot on your roof meant to work for decades. Same here. Decades of cycling, even as batteries degrade. Sounds like free money to me.

[@ianmchale770]

I wish this company record profits and speedy expansion! Saving the world and making bank right here

[@timdevoe360]

Simply ingenious👍🏼

[@uncriticalthinkerNZ]

Apparently the charging networks here in NZ use them at their charger sites in a similar way. It’s not just for price, but to ensure all power used is generated from renewable sources, because at peak we still use a few dirty sources.

[@TheMrTape]

>because at peak we still use a few dirty sources Bro. Try to look up "US energy sources pie chart 2023".

[@uncriticalthinkerNZ]

@@TheMrTape why?

[@peterkrass5528]

​​@@uncriticalthinkerNZ because you are a fool

[@ThE4EvRPs3GaMeR]

This is one of the reason I love California. We will make a way to give a second hand use to something to cut down on waste build up.

[@BrigCommander]

california is the definition of waste build up

[@p0llenp0ny]

They're still going to the landfill eventually.

[@ThE4EvRPs3GaMeR]

@p0llenp0ny Yes but not as rapidly because your extending its life by who knows how many more years. It gives us more time to find a way to recycle these things more economically.

[@RichardHaleJr]

I wondered why I it was so hard to find a used battery for my Leaf. I also wondered why the prices were so high when I did find one. Now I know the answer.

[@aus-reviews8462]

great way to reduce recycling waste

[@stevo2574]

good quality except for the mic

[@blipco5]

What becomes of these batteries when they are no longer serviceable? And how long do these used batteries last in the storage plant?

[@antronx7]

They are crushed and recyclable materials like aluminum, copper and steel are harvested. Remaining mass containing plastic, graphite and lithium can be stored for future harvesting once it becomes cheaper than mining new lithium. These batteries will probably last 2 - 5 years in daily cycling, possibly 10 for some packs.

[@blipco5]

@@antronx7 Thanks. I follow closely the development of EV batteries but it seems every two weeks there’s a new latest and greatest technology. It’s hard to keep up.

[@rafafederer832]

Finally a use for a Nissan Leaf

[@brandonbe5351]

How do they protect against fire, fire spreading? What and how do they use to extinguish a pod on fire? This is so cool to see, I hope this gets deployed in areas it makes sense to have.

[@arcticredpanda4598]

If you watch the video, they are out in the desert with nothing around.

[@samueladams3746]

Well, with a metals fire you don’t. Segregating the battery racks in container with spacing is about all you can do.

[@HamiltonSRink]

So I'm thinking that when Nissan Leafs are wearing out before their batteries? Are crashed and totalled with still good batteries? Are suddenly considered too ugly to be seen in? I would have thought that Leafs would remain viable cars for a long time.

[@BORNGEARHEAD]

These battery packs are being replaced in less than 60k miles.

[@stevejohnstonbaugh9171]

Kudo's to you Freeman Hall. Such a simple concept but invisible to 99% of Americans because they are blissfully ignorant. From the charts provided, it appears you go to the Super Bowl everyday around 6 pm. A beautiful example of two concepts they used to teach in B school; Try it fix it. & The enemy of progress is perfection. In simplistic terms, you have taken someone else junk, found a way to unitize the worn out EV battery to store solar power you produce for those few minutes of high demand that cycles daily and sell your stored solar power into the grid (from a distributed generation platform) without incurring the time and cost of startup and shutdown incurred with a peaker plant. Good for you. I knew it could be done - the only question was WHO & WHERE. Now I know. Solar and WInd is not the enemy of the grid - it is the solution to the future of the grid. Now if the grid would technologically catch up...

[@murphygay6924]

Hello can we get a source for some of those financially related graphs?

[@3ggt3]

From the footage it seems the battery packs aren't thermally managed. Although Nissan Leaf batteries originally lacked a thermal management system, it is very crucial to have adequate cooling if these batteries are going to operate in the desert. Having driven through Lancaster, CA during the summer months I know these packs won't handle the triple digit heat well. Even though these packs have had substantial degredation during their first life as an EV battery, they will continue to degrade in capacity quickly if the bins don't have sufficient cooling during the summer where temperatures in the area can easily exceed 105 degrees F consecutively for many weeks.

[@matsv201]

That the leaf battery lack thermal management is a myth and is not, and have never been, true. The original batteries used power throttling combined with pack air cooling in stead of water cooling system. The degrading had nothing to do with thermal management, but rather with the low capacity combined with the chemistry used. The LCO 24kWh battery simply only had 28MWh of battery life, while the current NMC 40kWh battery have a 72MWh of life span. Quite considerably longer

[@invento123]

It seems on the side of each unit is a mini split which I imagine is simply circulating and cooling the air inside each housing thus intern cooling and or heating the battery packs.

[@lylestavast7652]

the containers they're racking them in are thermally controlled, per their site. You gotta trust that serious engineering people have taken care of all the concerns of that nature, or investor money wouldn't be in play.

[@michaelkelly7932]

I've been running G1's for a few years now in AZ and I'm in 120-125F temps about 100 days a year with no problems for Off grid Solar Batteries with no problems. Until I started using MPPTSolar (Taiwan) Hybrid Controllers I always had thermal Meltdowns with big name controllers, usually the glue they used wasn't high temp enough or the plastic inside wasn't high temp like a ABS Plastic is so the controllers would fail around 140F internal temps you need large heat sinks and high airflows. As for the G1's I configured mine inside of customized milk crates and in 125F heat they stay around 95-100F all summer (in the shade) the aluminum cell casings on the g1's work well (as is) as a heat sink

[@richardroberson9277]

@@matsv201 can still throttle your ability to charge the damn things during the cheapest part of the day

[@Foxfried]

So many problems I see with this: 1) containers do not have proper insulation so mini split working over time 2) Inconsistent supply, you will never know what you will get. 3) old packs will require routine manual balancing and batching. 4) old packs higher chance of thermal runway, if this happens whole container goes poof.

[@silvy7394]

The battery manages itself and would need to get extremely hot for it to explode. Those are non-issues

[@lylestavast7652]

any engineer can make your list 0-4 in reality.

[@kap4020]

I +1 ur comment, cuz you'd think they would be true, but: - these batteries normally run _covered_ inside a car. These get more airflow than they do installed in a car. Besides, it's easy to add a temperature sensor and start a fan. Flat batteries are especially easy to cool. Think blowing on a spoon ful of soup - inconsistent supply isnt an issue at this scale. The ISO pays u per mwh. Peaker plants are intermittent too, by that definition - the BMSs inside the packs balance the cells inside. You can also make ur own or buy one. Components and even computer code are freely available - thermal runaway only happens if the cells are punctured. they're safer sitting in the desert than in the moving car that they came from

[@eastmanresearch3143]

i really like this with the leaf batteries, if a module dies it can be taken out of service and a single battery pack cell can likely be used to fix the whole pack. You don't throw away the first battery that goes out of service, you set it aside and use good cells to fix other 40kw batteries that end up with problems. Substantially Less landfill. With a tesla battery you have the higher risk of fire- the leaf batteries are not lithium so it's safer to use in this application.

[@rainmanj9978]

Need help let me know

[@PerErikKarlsson]

Any reason why Leaf batteries specifically? Will they expand to more types later?

[@t.d.5804]

Main problem is that the car companies not not give away their software/protocolls. So no one can access the battery as is. Often you have to open the battery and install own hardware like a BMS. It would be really easy if you can software unlock the battery. Until then its complicated. I do have 3 Nissan Leaf batteries, but took them apart and rewired them with my own BMS and to 48V. Works great as a PV storage. They are now 8 years old and will last a long time. There are HV inverters, so ie 400V is no problem anymore, but the amount of work opening and rewiring makes it unusable in large scale.

[@eastmanresearch3143]

@@t.d.5804 There are people and projects who have rev engineered the canbus protocol- see Dala's ev repair here on YT.

[@larrymeyer2917]

Fabulous response to recycling used batteries and clean energy.

[@SY4Artz]

Here in Germany where i live, something like this wouldnt be possible. Unfortunately we pay big amount of taxes both for charging AND discharging the battery. Thats why energy storage systems arent as common here in the country. Our politics have to change that to make useful storing of renewable energy possible. I am admiring the shown project.

[@antronx7]

Vote for conservatives.

[@SY4Artz]

@@antronx7 never. It's they're fault.

[@antronx7]

@@SY4Artz Weird. Where I am from they vote for lower taxes.

[@thosethatcan]

hey now: The EASIEST way to connect used EV packs to grid! 🔋 Dala's EV Repair 149K views 3 weeks ago

[@barriewright2857]

Absolutely brilliant no land fill, and your getting a double usage 👍🏿.

[@p0llenp0ny]

They're still going there eventually.

[@barriewright2857]

@@p0llenp0ny but it will take longer, and some one will figure out how to retrieve the materials out of the batteries for reuse. Complete life recycling from birth too death.

[@p0llenp0ny]

@@barriewright2857 And use the degraded material for what exactly..

[@barriewright2857]

@@p0llenp0ny Remake new batteries 🤔.

[@p0llenp0ny]

@@barriewright2857 That's not how it works.

[@WillieStubbs]

The nice thing if a homeowner used this technique, he could do a do-it-yourself solar setup with used solar panels which aren't allowed to be grid tied to charge his battery banks and sell the power to the utility directly off his banks which should make his grid tie allowable since the energy is from batteries. So if you could sell 2MW hrs to the grid you could pocket over $100k/yr. ($70k in used panels + $416k in batteries) 4 years to break even then $127,750/yr profit. Of course the real money is in the batteries, so you could buy the power in the daytime to charge the batteries then sell it back at night at the higher rate and forget about having your own panels. Just start buying wrecked Leafs.

[@maxwellhill4754]

Where did you get those numbers? If you get 48kw for 3 hours (lowest price $0.25/kwh) then sell it back at the highest daily price $0.55, that's nearly $45 per day, 365 days per year that's $16,000. The grid will only provide you so much power to your house.

[@kap4020]

This is also DC to DC, nice bonus

[@leandersmith6184]

Lift those solar panels on poles using the condensation coming from the panels to feed crops (used on growing in shade) under it and make everyone happy.

[@Laughable799]

All the people complaining about power grid problems. It doesn't take a genius to see it come to life in this video. Clean energy is very useful to help build a better power grid.

[@lambsypte4482]

Watch the government change the rules that will take a good idea and stop them making money from this.

[@NoSuffix]

That's very smart & good for everyone.

[@captainobvious9188]

Second life leaf batteries were a great deal a few years ago. Now, they are way too expensive.

[@brokestudent8548]

Yup, but thats just because the demand is higher now

[@dan__________________]

It only works if the energy company that you are selling to pays enough during peak hours. Where I live there is no change in the buyback rates, its set at about 50%.

[@joelmartin2549]

I guess you would need to do your research before starting construction. You would need a contract with the power company and if they won’t give you a deal you don’t go through with it. I also suspect that in this case this man is receiving some public funding as this would be a pet PC project useful for propaganda of the California government.

[@Dr.Muddyboots]

How about using an EV battery (without the automobile) for homes for storage during power failures as well as the potential economic and social contributions of grid welfare.

[@uwucaffeineaddiction4023]

So a Nissan leaf battery but on your wall? You can already do that for a brand new like the tesla power wall‘s

[@seneca983]

@@uwucaffeineaddiction4023 "You can already do that for a brand new like the tesla power wall‘s" I think the point was that a used EV battery could be cheaper than a brand new battery.

[@uwucaffeineaddiction4023]

@@seneca983 I forgot to say that but yeah

[@westboundbadger]

Could not Electric cars have a solar panel on the roof to charge them when parked or being driven?

[@SurvivalSquirrel]

One panel would not be enough. They would need like 5-10 panels!

[@maudepotvin8660]

This is beautiful !!!

[@Pauuanthakali]

efficient way of storing 20 cars in a shipping container.. x 8 that's 160 cars neatly stacked.. pretty micro solar farm considering about an acre or so in area.. at 40KWh per pack x 160 = 6400KWh minimum power.. wonder how many homes that capacity is good for.. awesome all together.. thanks presenting project.. i'll look out for it crossing 14..

[@federicov362]

In USA, the average consumption is 30kW per day, so 6.4mW power storage like that should be enough for 200 houses for a day. Keep in mind this is based on your calculation, let's say they are using 50kWh battery pack, at a 80% SOC is 400kWh x 160=6.4mW storage capacity, it doesn't mean their solar system produce that amount per hour. Per some pictures, I can see they are 90 solar panels per line, and they are at least 30 rows in this small farm, so 2700 solar panels, which they are 370~400watts each, so at least 1mW Solar array system, which could be enough to charge a 6mW storage capacity, at least in California where their annual average of peak sun hours is 5+.

[@ericapelz260]

"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." Or in this case the ones saying it "needs more study."

[@JoeDisMe]

just stop

[@linmal2242]

Reuse is ALWAYS better than recycling!

[@imp3r1alx]

But wont they degrade over time ?? especially hardcore use like the grid..

[@trapsarentgay4195]

Battery degradation slows down extremely around 80% mark. You may not want to use them anymore to power a vehicle, but they’re perfect for energy storage still

[@maccjw]

The 55,000 seat Johan Cruyff Arena has been powered by Nissan Leaf batteries since 2018

[@aarongranger]

Electric grid arbitrage. Buy it when it's cheaper in the evenings and then sell it back at a higher rate during the middle of the day. If the delta will cover the infrastructure/storage cost...

[@deepsleep7822]

Towards the end of the vid, Freeman Hall was driving a BMW. Does anybody recognize the model and/or if it is electric?

[@barsei1511]

looks like an bmw 3 series. not an electric bmw, the steering wheel looks different.

[@goosegog]

That's really great to see. Do we really need distracting English language captions embedded into an English speaking video? KZbin has the option of turning captions on in most languages if needed so why clutter your nice presentation Canary Media?

[@deepsleep7822]

@Fegus: some of us who have hearing issues appreciate the CC.

[@goosegog]

@@deepsleep7822 I should have thought of that really. I'm deaf in my right ear, however, KZbin offers optional CC on most videos.

[@Eyes0penNoFear]

@@goosegog the optional CC that KZbin offers isn't always accurate, which makes it harder for Deaf/HH people to understand what's happening.

[@goosegog]

@@Eyes0penNoFear KZbin offers content creators the option to manually add their own accurate captions which can be toggled on and off by the viewer, and be added in multiple languages. There is no need to embed CC in the video image.

[@BLASTIC0]

ISO ?

[@gRuHa89]

@3:22 - plac na Rozdrożu! :O

[@silaslongshot941]

So, these batteries are considered 'junk' or too inefficient, etc, to work in the cars, but they 'work' for these solar power banks?

[@hano552]

Is there an off the shelf electric system which will manage / convert the complete un-dismanteded car battery into a residential power bank?

[@ben3989]

Unfortunately it’s not really available you need to take 400 something volt DC and convert to 120/240ac. There is no easy product to do that right now

[@hano552]

@@ben3989 thanks for the feedback

[@realsabab]

I stepped on a bug in my time machine. This is gordon freeman now.

[@frankjenkins6627]

Oh dear another poke in the eye for those who say car batteries are no good for the community once the cars life is over .

[@cmiller6352]

There’s no chance the naysayers would acquiesce.

[@julieheath6335]

Very clever idea. I'm heartened to see that the economics work! Wondering how many of the nay-sayers in the comments actually know anything about the true ROI forthis project? Most seem to just spit out opinions, without knowing how the business actually functions...

[@shaunbeattie6557]

HOW much storage ? can you run a city a town or a house ive seen vidioes and they are lucky to supply block of houses how about an idustrial estate 🤔

[@desertdog2282]

So if I am doing the math right your 4mgw hours of storage. Can make you $700 a day as long as the sun is shining. Thats about $21,000 a month, and the sun shines about as often as the wind blows in Lancaster. I can see why you are planning to expand.

[@Pete856]

He actually said there was 2.75 and a 4MWh of storage, so that's 6.75MWh. At $200 a kWh for the batteries, that's $1.35m, plus the panels and other equipment, I'd guess it's cost over $2m to setup and maybe $200k a year to run. At $175 a MWh, they make $1,181 if they use all the storage, probably $1,000 would be a good day, so that's maybe $365K a year income. After running costs, paying off the up front investment and replacing batteries as they degrade, I doubt there is all that much money in it.

[@lylestavast7652]

@@Pete856 Their site says the storage capacity as of December is 8mwh now, so apparently the expansion shown in this video is now online or soon to be. (I doubt your costing on the battery expense, it's way too high for 2nd life batteries). These guys aren't do this to break even, go look at their site and see the degrees of the principals...

[@FJB2020]

@@Pete856 they are looking to be bought out.. that is all these "green solar guys" actually care about..

[@gregh7457]

@@Pete856 They could also be selling excess solar electricity during the day to the grid and also there are times when prices spike such as when a plant on the grid goes offline

[@billbarr7591]

Really intersting topic but completely unwatchhable due to the amount of wind noise. Pity.

[@Kangenpower7]

It seems with normal overnight electric prices being lower than daytime prices, it would be better to use grid power to charge the battery overnight, say midnight to 6 or 7 am, then discharge the battery packs between 5 pm and 9 pm, when the capacity of the grid is less, and $ per KW is the highest. Then sell the solar power as it is made. Have you checked into that solution?

[@NaturalBornGriller]

i'm pretty sure he just said night time prices are higher because solar sources are gone so the requirement for traditionally generated electricity is at it's highest

[@joelmartin2549]

@@NaturalBornGriller I’m curious about this too, traditionally power is more expensive during the day as factories are pulling power, but it’s possible with the PC socialist agenda in California that this phenomenon has been artificially inverted.

[@NaturalBornGriller]

He makes money by generating and storing power on batteries from the sun cheaply and then selling it when the state isn't also benefitting from cheap solar power...at night When you invest in solar power it would make power cheap during the day and expense at night. It's not some political "agenda". It's called "supply and demand"

[@iXmerof]

One thing that bothers me here. They're storing an electric capacity on batteries that were replaced firstly because they lost most of its capacity. What I am overseeing here?

[@khanch.6807]

Batteries are needed to be replaced at 80% which is usually reached in 10 years of use. These batteries are designed to loose 2% capacity per year usually but when capacity is already at around 50% it doesn't reduce that much per year. So u essential get half a battery that runs for more than 10 years at recycling price.

[@codifrancisco4351]

well this works well for the first generation Nissan leaf a Power to the Home system was something Nissan offered

[@balazstivadar8631]

I am just wondering why these batteries are thrown out and not used in cars any longer since they are still good.

[@Timformers]

Cars have way higher demands on batterys. On accaleration, they have a high preak on energy usage. Batterys degreade over time, lowering the peaks it can handle and its maximum capacity. Thats why they can't be used on cars anymore. But for more lightweight tasks where their size doesn't realy matter, they are still very good to use

[@vladimirputin4822]

Cars crash sometimes, and can be economically unrepairable.

[@lylestavast7652]

the recycling loop really isn't firmly in place yet, but is coming. Redwood Materials is a company that's deep into doing this... someday your battery pack will have a scan code on it and when you scrap the vehicle/change it out - they'll scan that old one and someone will come by and take it to a recycling center...

[@dotlaj]

Now they just need to raise their solar panels so they can grow under them.

[@lylestavast7652]

cost of water is higher than what it's worth in that area of CA, or someone would already be farming that spot...

[@ericcindycrowder7482]

I’m so happy to see land in Lancaster being used for something good instead of cooking up crystal meth!

[@beebob1279]

crystal meth is all across the country

[@Dorenko]

Love!

[@meganwinters5163]

Soo this is where all the copart leafs are going... Could you let one slip through the cracks so I can actually get my car fixed and back on the road 🙏 🔋

[@monyta6834]

Ahh, those were on their way to recycling (hopefully), cause they can't be used in cars anymore, but such batteries still have some kicking in them left, so they're squeezing out everything they can. Tho good luck on finding that new battery for your car.

[@bruceburns1672]

When is a car battery considered worn out , and how many Kms or miles can still be extracted from the worn out batteries still .

[@timsyoutubechannel9798]

Its important to distinguish between battery packs and cells. For an EV a pack is generally considered 'worn out' at about 70% capacity. But this is still fine for renewable storage. If only some cells have expired they can be easily identified and replaced

[@donalain69]

wow.. didnt know in the US power prices are lower during the day then at night. where i live (in Thailand) it's the opposite. There is way more power consumed during the day because of the Industry and office buildings.

[@davidroosa4561]

in the evening here, everyone is home, cooking, washing and using lights at night

[@alcoyne3333333333333]

I always wondered why car companies don't put solar panels on the cars to help charging ??

[@JankyShack]

because the panels need to be pointed directly at the sun and in a place with no shadows. Plus the amount of panels you could put on a roof of a car even in ideal conditions charging the entire day would only get you about 1 mile of recharge.

[@JankyShack]

You would need a deploy-able solar array that you could setup outside the car once you were parked to get any kind of actual benefit

[@vladimirputin4822]

They do.

[@lylestavast7652]

Very little direct generation for the surface area available. You might get enough to run a small fan to cool the cabin or add a few miles of range per day. The cost outweighs the benefit. As the efficiency of cells increase, and production per square unit of area increases you'll probably see more of it. There are people who use golf carts as utility vehicles on farms who rig super cheap solar panels on top and use a relatively obscure charger to boost low gains into storable volumes... leave it outside all the time and use infrequently, it'll handle it for moderate use.

[@agustinguzman6375]

great idea.

[@Estoyaca]

Can you please ask the guy how many of those batteries I need to run my AC at home?

[@richardroberson9277]

if the solar is worthless then why the solar panels.....why solar and battery?

[@lylestavast7652]

Because there are so many people generating from solar during the daytime, it's hard for the grid to accept and pay well for it. But, after the sun goes down they pay more to generators for putting power on the grid. If you collect the power from the solar panels in a battery, you can release it and get paid much more at night when peak demand is there so it becomes more profitable than just using it as it's generated from the panel during the day.

[@richardroberson9277]

@@lylestavast7652 then why not just do more solar during the day or more batteries....whats the point of the mix

[@thebobloblawshow8832]

I have a question. These batteries are used, but they still work. So why aren’t they still being used in the electric car.

[@zackthompson2505]

The power required for normal operation of a electric vehicle is really demanding on the batteries. So at about 70% of the life of the batteries, the electric battery pack is considered expended for electric car use. At this point the power output is limited for safety, and the car loses it's ability to provide full power or range. Those same battery packs can be still useful in other situations though, such as this use case. Where the charging and discharging is constant, and less demanding than usage in a electric vehicle.

[@thebobloblawshow8832]

@@zackthompson2505 : hi Brandon, thank you so much for the information. This is a great way to reuse them.

[@bruceburns1672]

Would one of these batteries installed at a typical home do the job required of supplying enough power at night rather than buying an expensive new home battery , does anybody know ?????

[@timsyoutubechannel9798]

In theory Bruce. Nissan set up a division a few years ago to do just this. Ironically, battery packs are lasting much longer than anticipated and, as far as I know, they never got enough used packs to make the venture viable. As numbers increase I think this will become a thing though.

[@geoffsemon7411]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJ2mq2dml6iNkK8

[@timsyoutubechannel9798]

@@geoffsemon7411 Awesome channel

[@Timformers]

Usually yes. I don't know, what your electricity consumption is but ev batteries are kinda big, since transport is a very energy heavy task. EVs usually need about 13-20 kw/h per 100km (~62 miles). Most households should easily be able to get over multiple nights with those batteries

[@Eyes0penNoFear]

@@Timformers my buddy has a Tesla S and he told me it would power his house for almost a week.

[@fdk7014]

So he sells electricity for $100 a day. How much are the used EV batteries?

[@junkvista61]

I want to buy some of these batteries for my roof top solar so I would be off grid. The Tesla guy want my first born son for their "power wall"s Do you sell them or please let me know where to buy them? Anybody?

[@deltafire5058]

So rather than decommission old used batteries, reclaiming the materials, they use them to the point of failure, releasing deadly toxic gasses into the atmosphere?

[@UnipornFrumm]

pretty cool

[@borne777]

would be okay if they wont be charging and discharging everyday but that also defeats purpose of solar if your battery are fully charged

[@lylestavast7652]

they're pushing the stored power to the grid during night time and emergency demand periods etc (that's ancillary services)..

[@scottkempton6085]

Any reason why this concept of using solar energy to charge old EV batteries, then using that stored energy to power a home, couldn't be replicated on an individual, residential scale? A guy has an old Nissan Leaf, junks the car, but keeps the battery to power his home.

[@UhOhUmm]

Because lithium batteries die in a couple years if you cycle them every day. This whole concept is a bullshit eco flavoured money grab.

[@Jehty_]

@@UhOhUmm would be news to me that all EVs are dead after a few years. I think you mixed something up.

[@scottkempton6085]

@@UhOhUmm "This whole concept is a bullshit eco flavoured money grab". OR..........this is a technology that still has room to mature, which it has significantly since the original Toyota Prius, and will continue to do. People said pretty much the same thing about cars when they were replacing horses in the early 20th century, but I'll bet you don't consider your car a "bullshit money grab", do you? And if you think about it, ALL technology happens because people come up with an idea that they think can make them money; it's called capitalism.

[@UhOhUmm]

@@Jehty_ you don't cycle your ev battery every day, they usually have 10 years of life with 1000-1500 cycles

[@UhOhUmm]

@@scottkempton6085 original prius isn't using a lithium battery, it has nihm cells which are even worse and they do die all the time, it's just that prius works well enough even with an almost dead battery

[@The_Vaporizer]

They still break, they still end up in HUGE piles because as You said "they're too costly to recycle" Remember when you first saw a massive tire pile? Now imagine a massive Battery pile...oh, wait you don't have to 😂

[@pierrex3226]

Literally the biggest problem with renewables is the mismatch between production and usage, aka storage. This is storage. Used tyres just aren't a good comparison.

[@leegibson5469]

This is great idea but those batteries are not very efficient. Have to do the math on whether a new battery system will net more energy efficiency overall down the line. What I mean is, you might be better off buying a newer battery than an old, at the end of its life, one. You are just throwing good money after bad. Maybe they are thinking of starting off this way and upgrading down the line but who knows.

[@briananthony4044]

Only end of it's life as a car battery, because the standard low range has dropped 30%. Your 24kwh battery good for 100 miles is now only giving you 70 miles, but that 17kwh of battery life is still useful as a storage medium for many more years, while selling for maybe scrap value.

[@lylestavast7652]

the cheap but still viable for power storage in a grid linked application is specifically part of their financial calculus :) Not breaking them down to get all optimal, is a cost they're not incurring. They're not "bad", they're just partially degraded and when they drop below some point they've calculated, they'll swap for more viable...

[@EVLS10]

This really only works out because of a inefficient grid... Which renewables aren't actually helping right now. If most of our power was coming from nuclear then we wouldn't be seeing these massive swings in power production and price throughout the day and wouldn't need grid storage.

[@lanceboyle4255]

Nuclear supplies base load and can’t accommodate large demand swings. The grid needs dispatchable resources to manage system peaks. Batteries will be an increasing means to meet this requirement, especially with more intermittent supply being added in the future.

[@EVLS10]

@@lanceboyle4255 traditional designs do take hours to spin up or down to meet varying power demands but newer designs are much better at adapting to changing loads faster. Peaking plants by definition are wasteful. Storage is needed to a certain degree but doesn't have to be batteries. Other good technologies out there such as flywheel or gravitational. Land is only going to be more important going forward and renewables currently suck at that.

[@richardroberson9277]

nuclear cost more to setup....the waste is a nonstarter as we can throw it into the sun in 100 years ffs, but to build it new so many regulations costs more than solar +battery so why bother

[@richardroberson9277]

@@lanceboyle4255 not true, and even if it was you wouldnt need nearly as much as outright storage just enough to allow a ramp

[@EVLS10]

@@richardroberson9277 cost is high but you pay a premium for the best option... Waste is very easy to deal with... Basing our grid on something as fickle as direct sunlight is... Stupid. A single day without enough solar could collapse the grid. We need reliability. That word can't really be mentioned with renewables.

[@michaelamos75]

Can't they be used for fast chargers? Isn't that what makes fast chargers so fast is the fact that the power is stored in D/C form like a big battery to be able to send that power to the cars battery really fast?

[@cali-electro-dad]

There is a point at which car batteries loose their ability to fast charge effectively and thier capacity dips below what is useful for operating a vehicle, but they can still be used for home (or grid in this case) storage which doesn't demand as much as vehicle use. Hence the idea of a "second life".

[@fastdadgarage-northsouthch4418]

This is a good approach, unfortunately guys that want to do a conversion at home will need to find a new battery source.

[@johnhenderson9257]

Car crash,insurance right offs

[@miken7629]

Nice to see but the original capital investment must be factored in and those EV batteries won't last forever, leading to reoccurring capital investment plus disposal cost. I could see using this method in a home.

[@alexjohnward]

I guess the point is the batteries are purchased cheap, and can still be sold to recyclers when really kaput.

[@grahamhutton1633]

So what happens when they die in 10myears

[@michaeldecker2725]

Weird lighting almost makes the solar panels look fake.

[@nubie1100]

Have we still not got a better way than lithium batteries yet ?

[@DougGrinbergs]

Crummy interview audio (:-( #badAudioPandemic

[@jfbeam]

Ah yes, the insanity of CA power market day trading -- buy low, sell high! I love the graphs show how much people have embraced solar since 2015. (again, spurred by the insanity of the CA power market.)