How “A WELL TRAINED WIFE” Narrowly Escaped Extreme Christian Patriarchy with 4 Kids

[@Nemo-mu5vh]

This is my life experience and I am ex Muslim. I was confused, sad, controlled and gaslighted to talk about why I feel like loving God will put me through this. I am in therapy, healing, and left that horror to protect my kids. Wishing healing for everyone🙏🏽

[@olilumgbalu5653]

Hi, sorry for what you went through and I hope you have healed. I think people forget that Patriarchy is worldwide and in many (every?) religions not just Christianity.

[@kittyperry]

ex-Muslim too - and I had a friend when I was doing my PhD at university tell me that if I was in a different country that he would have the right to kill me for not believing - so I hear you. So much love from someone who has been there and experienced something so similar.

[@Nemo-mu5vh]

@@olilumgbalu5653 thank you so much. You can fully heal from experience like that but I am grateful that my kids are not experiencing that. It’s a worldwide problem. Too many boys with man body acting like adults. They can’t handle the truth so they go full rage and control. Let’s teach our boys and girls early how to be responsible loving human beings.🙏🏽

[@Nemo-mu5vh]

@@kittyperry many blessings 🙏🏽 to you. I am glad you are not in that spiritual corrupt state anymore. We don’t need a book to tell us how to be good human beings. I heard the “if you were in Islamic country I would have killed you” from my family every time let alone strangers. Hope everything is great with you now🙏🏽

[@sciencewins8798]

It really is the same in every religion when it comes to an extreme form. Christianity, Islam, Ultraorthodox Judaism… no difference… and the woman is always the victim..

[@carolgonzales4262]

50 yrs with a narc...treated like a blow up doll, no affection nothing but it's all about him. Never a thank you...never a compliment. I'm ashamed I put up with it. 6 yrs free. Loving my home now.

[@juliee593]

Proud of you!

[@carolgonzales4262]

@@juliee593 Thank you, you're very kind.

[@NoOne-hg1qc]

fuck yeah, enjoy your new life .. I'm sorry you went through that though

[@apriladams6098]

Free at last🎉❤

[@Nemo-mu5vh]

@@carolgonzales4262 you did great leaving. Wishing you all the best and enjoy every minute of your life.

[@elizabethwittig3930]

Leaving is the most dangerous time for women in abusive circumstances.

[@christinesotelo7655]

I found the danger actually exhilarating as well. Here’s why: I felt I had literally split in two, I guess you’d call it disassociate? There was the vengeful, secretive, planning part of me who organized and perfected. Then there was the part of me who stayed and made life calm as possible until all the timing was right. It was like having one foot on each crevice of a split mountain. Danger followed and I broke once it was done, then got up and started again, then broke...it wasn’t like a heroine movie with a woman’s muddy head emerging from murky water, all determined and ready. It was fast and then slow, emotional then numb. Integrating and getting things right took lots of help and counsel because children were involved. And having to review and resort and refile a mess of life history til it all made sense took years. But one thing I know and I think I always knew from earliest childhood: the punishments dished onto young girls presumably by God, told by men about eternal hellfire and destructions and then living through the parents alcoholism and dysfunctional life because mom was stuck in the subservient powerless role-that made me stay way too long in submissive roles. I’ve escaped much but plunged back into the wrong things too so had to do a Finale Exit and learn NOT to keep repeating patterns. So now I’m working on saying, “No. thank you but no.” And people don’t like that! They see me as kind and “an easy target”, a “soft touch”, and then suddenly: “Leave!” or “No!” and wow, they get angry.

[@lynnes5561]

I quietly ran away with my 2 dogs 1000 miles away, leaving a note to say I've left for overseas to put him off looking for me, but I was divorced already.

[@G14-Classified]

My mother was a victim of marital rape until I busted down the bedroom door and physically pulled her out of the situation.

[@rebeccamouse9294]

Wow. So sorry you had to do that. And I think you are amazing.

[@G14-Classified]

@@rebeccamouse9294 thank you my mom didn’t think she was worth someone better and I got tired of the men she chose and that man hit my last nerve that night and I fought back. He was a coward, he was all big and bad till you stood up to him then he showed what a coward he was abusing women, and my daddy didn’t raise me to be a submissive female.

[@whitneysawyer483]

I'm glad you intervened! That's horrible.

[@rebeccamouse9294]

@@G14-Classified you are amazing. I hope you are ok. That’s a lot.

[@G14-Classified]

@@rebeccamouse9294 thank you yes it was a lot but I’d do it all over again and yes I’m doing good 😊

[@franciebelcher4594]

Tia's very spot on assessment of mental illness and personality disorder running rife in the Patriarchy is something I WISH more people recognized. Absolute power corrupts. History knows this, and yet......

[@becpennington7470]

NPD/ASPD/BPD run rampant in fundie groups because they are attracted to the perfect clusters of groomed victims. Most of these groups were organized and created by narcissists and grifters such as the Gothards. They write theology and doctrine which serves their purposes of control, giving them a never-ending stream of vulnerable bodies to exploit. When one abuser falls from the top, another rises, and within the ranks many find refuge to indulge their worst fantasies. The whole idea is rotten from root to tip; that was its whole purpose.

[@hannahlang4703]

Well who else would fall for such a faulty belief system, except for people who are already mentally ill?

[@judymartuscello114]

This is NOT what true Christianity/marriage should look like!!!

[@franciebelcher4594]

@@judymartuscello114 if u say so. I've yet to meet any "religious" person that I'd even trust to water my plants. ✌

[@vidyasreeram2587]

​@@judymartuscello114 do you believe in patriarchy or equality in marriage?

[@thewrongshoes]

Can we talk about how no matter what the sexual issue in a marriage it's the woman's fault. If he lacks interest, it's the woman's fault - she must be letting herself go or isn't inviting or something. If she lacks interest, it's her being a prude or simply her being disobedient. No matter what it is, it's the woman's fault

[@SuB-gy4rb]

It’s something they think is a way of control over them. I was accused of with holding and control over them and what ‘they’ want - not that they were never affectionate or kind. I was cook, housekeeper, farm laborer who was also expected to sleep with them on demand. My situation wasn’t even based on any religious stuff, he was just a man (and 18 years older than me) I escaped

[@booksquid856]

😢 yah, and women are still just trying to catch up on understanding our sexual desires, which the larger world didn't think existed for so long.

[@PraiseTheFSMonster]

​@@booksquid856 And a lot of us have had those desires extinguished because of the fear and trauma we've endured

[@DimaRakesah]

It's like this with everything in these cults. The men are in charge and have all the say in everything, but have no accountability for their part in how things turn out. Everything is blamed on women/girls, children, or the secular world. The men are not true leaders, because true leaders take responsibility and accountability. These men are leaches. They extract all the labor, all the money, all the respect, everything from the people below them solely for their own benefit and at the expense of everyone else.

[@rebekkagasmi9451]

That's exactly why patriarchy has invented marriage...

[@tennillepatterson5500]

9 total pregnancies, 5 live births, 4 servivng children. That hits hard.

[@desa415]

I wonder how many of those pregnancies were lost due to her husband's abuse.

[@WendyRange]

30:17 "Most patriarchs aren't mentally stable" What a true and powerful statement!

[@delphoeneevenhuis5199]

I hate having to breathe the same air as people who think this kind of thing is ok, in ANY religious or other context!

[@Daughter_of_the_MostHigh]

Christianity is not to blame, she made a bad choice in who she married, she should have left. She is blaming her poor decision making on religion and thats not ok either

[@BridgetWalker-xu8sw]

​@@Daughter_of_the_MostHighReligion encourages this kind of behavior. Christianity can and will be blamed. Do you have any idea how many christian marriages are arranged for young girls? Christianity is the reason child marriage is legal in the US.

[@dorothysmith3850]

@@Daughter_of_the_MostHighYou are profoundly ignorant.

[@nealiecruz2532]

@@Daughter_of_the_MostHigh Maybe abusers should be made to leave And Punished and thrown in jail

[@Teajay21]

​@Daughter_of_the_MostHigh I'm sorry WTF? Did you listen to anything? She was groomed by her religion to not even believe that marital rape was a thing, she was never given the tools to understand and leave an abusive situation. Its also INCREDIBLY dangerous to leave, its the most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive marriage.

[@werethewilsons]

My girl Shalise helping expose the underbelly of these cults once again. This woman, Tia, is so brave and I can't wait for the book! 👏📚❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

😁🙏

[@goatmealcookies7421]

Innocence does allow one to be victimized. We have to talk about those things that are "taboo" in order to put a stop to the abuse.

[@Marieruth333]

Je ne crois pas que ce soit l'innocence qui permet d'être victime,c'est plutôt l'ignorance,mais lesutilisent le besoin naturel de l'être humain de se connecter avec Dieu pour choisir délibérément l'enseignement qui leurs permettra plus tard de dominer les autres.

[@lisaharmon8401]

*ignorance

[@geobus3307]

This is why religious leadership does not allow basic sex education. Control and dominion...It is all male ego, the exact opposite of what the major religions claim to represent.

[@aleddon1]

My now ex husband SA me in 2008. I called the police and was told you can't SA your wife. I got pregnant and he now has primary custody of our son because if I couldn't afford an attorney, I couldn't afford my son. All men involved, BTW. My ex husband threatened my now 10 year old son and there is a 10 year protection order against him on my son. But he's fit to have custody of our 15 year old because I didn't have $5k for an attorney. Make it make sense.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

How awful!! I’m so sorry!

[@jenniferj5324]

Where do you live? That officer needs to be reported.

[@Egg_Apron]

Tia Levings has been speaking out for a long time. She is inspirational to me and to so many women exiting Evangelical and/or fundamentalist Christianity. Her story about how she was sucked into an abusive marriage due to compliance with "God's will" was very similar to mine. We both attended a megachurch and given constant reinforcement by our parents and church about pleasing an unpleasable punishing god under threat of hell fire, from toddler age. I heard her speak ancient , suppressed Feminine wisdom: "We create our own hell and heaven here."

[@andreahidalgolujan7029]

I love her "save yourself" message. It is very empowering and a voice in our heads most of us need

[@stacey5440]

Policing my own thoughts still gives me hives 40 years later. Thankful for therapy.

[@AmyC28713]

Carl Jung's Shadow Work (valid legitimate therapy we use in Recovery) will help so very much with that. Owning imperfection takes the pressure off. Life isn't about perfection, it's about progress ❤‍🩹

[@teamcougars]

Before I had a massive ischemic stroke 9 years ago I was a traditional wife and mom but that was my choice I had always wanted to be home raising our children, I did the raising of our children, did the cooking and cleaning and my husband took care of the yard we had that arrangement for 25 years until the stroke and I was left with a paralyzed left hand and arm and I was no longer able to do the cooking and cleaning anymore plus the state suspended my drivers license so I could no longer take my kids to their sporting events games and practices my husband had a very rude, quick lesson in everything I had done for 20 plus years that he had no true idea🤷🏼‍♀️

[@katwitanruna]

Break the silence. Break the cycle.

[@ivanasimic2072]

YES!! SILENCE IS VIOLANCE

[@danielnemesio3388]

I remember when I explained to my grandma what the concept of marital rape means, and her expression when she realised that's what happened to her wasn't how is supposed to be. She gave a look like she was trying to remember all the times it happened to her

[@ReggaeKM]

Just imagine how many of our grandmothers experienced this…just a heartbreaking thought.

[@kindGSL]

I had a similar, but not the same, reaction when I realized my hubby's paternal grandmother had been subjected to the same sort of sexual abuse I was experiencing; she "couldn't walk down the stairs." Yeah, I know what that feels like. What made me really, really angry was when the doctors at Kaiser P totally gaslighted me all about it. They were VERY busy defending my sexual abuser. I sure would like to sue them for damages.

[@ivanasimic2072]

They dined it, like my mom

[@sharonmedeiros9819]

Oh my God...that's horrible.

[@kimstout6419]

It was only last year that marital rape became illegal in the state where I reside.

[@shyannemarie1494]

Wtfff where’s that at? I can’t imagine 😮

[@jennifercornman1291]

When I was 3 I remember my scum dad beat and raped my mom. When I got older she told me the police told her you can’t rape your wife. I was shocked.

[@cowgirl9014]

Marital rape was just abolished a couple months ago in my state. There are politicians here that ardently support marital rape

[@nancyf1342]

So sad :(

[@jennifercornman1291]

@@cowgirl9014 wow unbelievable

[@starlingswallow]

I am bawling. Tia's story is almost _exactly_ what I went through in my first marriage 😢💔 Tia, you are my HERO!!!! You, too, Shelise!!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

❤️❤️❤️ sending love!

[@DianaEriksen]

@starlingswallow I don't think those not in fundamental Christianity can relate to what you are taught as a young woman! It is abusive!

[@sherrijohnson7452]

Your interviewing style is so full of grace and compassion ❤️ Your tone of voice is soothing - helping your guests share intimate moments and difficult situations with us. I am so glad I found your channel. My childhood trauma isn't the same as yours, but trauma is trauma - we need to know we aren't alone ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you, Sherri ❤️ that means a lot.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

You’re definitely not alone

[@Schmowd3r]

Bro sometimes you hear someone speak and you just KNOW they’re a phenomenal writer. I can’t wait to read this book!!

[@annakern7307]

I'm a Christian by choice and wanted to mention how I love to listen to all the survivors stories also in order to stay aware for red flags for myself and others. Thank you so much for the podcast and all your hard work!

[@annadrift4]

"Survivors have to be willing to tell what happened even if it's embarrassing." Such a powerful statement. We can do better than our parents did with the hope our children can do better than us. This story is so important because I lived this for 10 years and needed to hear it. I know it will reach people of every faith or nonfaith that needs to hear it too.

[@annadrift4]

I didn't even grow up in a cult but the cult of patriarchy that dehumanizes women is pervasive. Incredibly sad how so many people experience this around the world! Motherhood so many times give us the will to fight against what hurts us and our kids! Literally crying because this story is so close to my own.

[@nickywal]

"you're only as weak as your secrets" that shame exists to keep people trapped in these groups and it's just sad

[@booksquid856]

It's hard because you do things you regret and can feel like you have no right to judge.

[@sethkofi7859]

You captured and expressed it so clearly...... thank you. Is it possible to get your posts?

[@julieproctor6039]

The nineteen kids same "J" names. They don't matter😮😢 thanks for the frank explanation via fundamentalist patriarchy.

[@donielle2868]

Just reaching out as a mom who lost a child to a heart defect (HLHS) in 2008 (he was 5 months old all spent in the ICU) to send love and comfort! Time is irrelevant to grief and I hear and see you! ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

❤️❤️❤️

[@mailill]

Great interview! My heart sank to my feet when I heard that these groups teach even to neglect and traumatize little babies by hyperscheduling newborns Non responsive sleep training is so cruel and so harmful! - and for what?! To be s**ually available for the patriarch of the family! And not taking children to see doctors and dentists when they need it! These pastors who teach families to neglect and abuse should go to jail!

[@hannahlang4703]

Newborn care specialist here. Schedules after the first weeks is actually amazing for newborns. They don’t have to reach the point of hunger and feel and communicate the distress of hunger. Scheduling is preventative and it’s why babies on schedules, fed with bottles, not breastfed on demand smile earlier and more often and have happier more satisfied temperaments. Look it up! It’s well documented. But the first few weeks, just feed them. Simple.

[@mailill]

​@@hannahlang4703 "Specialists" and their fabricated theories (changing all the time) ... When I was born, the "specialists" were sure that premature babies like me couldn't really feel pain or be traumatized by pain. Sorry, but I am not buying your advice.

[@livingjustright90]

I'd never heard of sleep scheduling until today. Im now a 60 year old Grandmother. Back in the day my babies were breast fed until they were full, cuddled when they needed it and apart from teething I never had any problems with sleep issues. Even as new Borns if they had full tummies they slept well and were content. My babies slept in the same bedroom as us with their cribs and then cots until they were ready to have their own room which we gradually did over time. I just thought of it as instinctive mothering. No drama and No Trauma. xx

[@mailill]

@@livingjustright90 That sounds great! ❤

[@nealiecruz2532]

@@hannahlang4703 This poor woman was afraid of violence against her if their baby cried in the middle of the night. Good grief, THATS NOT NORMAL and shouldn’t be justified with Polly Anna stupid statements like, “ Newborn scheduling works. Just look it up.” I’m happy for you that u never had to live thru or try and escape a domestic abuse and violence situation

[@melissasokol3127]

This explains patriarchy so well. It is alive and well in America.

[@Shelb13v]

Dude patriarchy literally just means Father rule. Every single family unit has patriarchy, but many men neglect or abuse their authority. Biblical patriarchy teaches that a man loves and cherishes his wife as his own flesh and lives with her in a gentle or understanding way. It also teaches that men should get the death penalty for adultery and can't neglect provisions for his wife and children and widowed Granny and can only divorce his wife if she committed adultery against him.

[@jenniferj5324]

Oh, stop it, please ... sure, there are patriarchal groups, but our society as a whole is pretty egalitarian. I would almost say it's moved towards being matriarchal. We need to be neither, and strive for egalitarian.

[@MegaGraceiscool]

Patriarchy is not inherently wrong, but many men are terrible patriarchs. Because of that, it's better to have egalitarian societies where men and women freely choose to have male-led relationships IF the woman actually wants to be with him and IF the man is genuinely a good partner.

[@philima]

That the social worker told Tia to run is such a special thing. It's terrible that she had to, but at the same time, social services can make it much worse by forcing you to interact with the abvser, even giving them your kids... So that was really a blessing to have such an individual instead of enablers

[@krismann7405]

I was told to run as well!!!! (Surprisingly by two ex pastors who had quit their churches and gotten an education/ became therapists etc…) it was a relief to know I “had permission” to leave! So thankful every day to be free from all of that. Thankful to be in a healthy marriage and with a man that truly cares for my heart.

[@RijackiTorment]

I grew up in the 70s with my teens in the early 80s. My parents were Christian fundamentalist so I had all of this force fed to me grouping up. I married in mid-80s before marital rape was illegal. I was raped by my ex-husband. I left when I could, when I was emotionally able to do so. Every time I hear about the continuation of that BS, I vacillate between sadness and anger. I'm 58 now and have been 'away' from most of that since the mid-90s and I still find myself falling into some of the self-deprecating patterns. It's pure evil.

[@kayemallory117]

Kate, your parents scared me. I was especially nervous around your father. He gave off a "danger!" vibe to me. I'm glad you are with a nice guy now - and Scout, too! -Kaye

[@megb9700]

I grew up in SBC in the same time period. I’m so sorry that happened and you were able to get out. I was forced out and shunned for becoming an adult and asking why we don’t put the Bible itself into into context of the times it was written. I still miss my old friends and the closeness of the community. I feel like we are the lucky ones, therapy helps.

[@manarcabrera2528]

Ms. Tia, never stop telling your story. It helps others who have experience this type of abuse. Stay safe and stay strong.

[@heythere4732]

I'm glad she acknowledged that 1/2 of the government is trying to do this exact thing. It seems like most people aren't understanding that.

[@mrsvm6221]

I’ve been listening to her other interviews and she made a very valid point. Out governmental leaders want to use our Constitutional freedoms for their own gain, only then to take them away from us once they have that power. Just like Trump. He wants us to vote him into office and once in, become Dictator on day one.

[@Frideswide1]

That is a sweeping generalization and hence, not true for all…please be careful with your assumptions. Many are egalitarian and do not subscribe to these tenets.

[@desa415]

I don't think it's as much as 1/2. Do you mean the Republicans. You will find plenty of people who are Democrats and other political parties acting this way.

[@Teajay21]

​@@desa415 They may be abusive but they typically are not fueled & supported by their religious beliefs that tells them women are submissive vessels for them. Its people like the Heritage Foundation and others that are trying to make this nation wide.

[@Teajay21]

​@@Frideswide1 Maybe not half but a large #, they are supporting government officials and bills that want to force the nation to adhere to their twisted religious beliefs about women, LGBTQ+ people, poverty, race, etc. Its why they are putting Christian commandments in public schools.

[@justpeachy4393]

Pretty fed up with violence against women... Like can this stuff stop??? Women are amazing... This lady is courageous and an absolute superhero for getting out and speaking out 🦸‍♀️.

[@BG-ig6fd]

Me too. So tired of it worldwide.

[@Mahomesfan615]

I have a very similar story to hers. Watched her videos before and it really helped me see through the lies and murkiness of my marriage. I am so glad we are still here finally DIVORCED and thriving with our children!

[@marials9245]

I’m a psychologist and i work with IFS therapy a lot as I have witnessed so many times how powerful of a tool it is, and how much healing it provides when we approach our self and our parts with compassion and curiosity. I’m really glad that you found your way and you healed from all the trauma you had to go through, you are a warrior!

[@vaunniethayer1484]

I often wonder if many women living in very patriarchal and religious societies outside the USA are secretly accessing this information. I hope so, hearing about women getting arrested on the streets for not wearing a certain item of clothing is terrifying.

[@maalfons]

We have enough worrying in the very patriarchal and religious societies into USA

[@BridgetWalker-xu8sw]

The danger is people encouraging that behavior if they move here.

[@TunziSNORT]

​@@BridgetWalker-xu8sw I We must vote for Harris/Walz in 2024. It is clear MAGA is a cult who will destroy women. In America we SUPPORT and Trust their decisions. People move to the US need to remember that woman are equal and respected.

[@pluscarnalivero]

@@BridgetWalker-xu8sw That's not the danger, the danger is how many of our leaders and people involved in Project 2025 want to recreate the same hyper control of women here.

[@rebeccamouse9294]

So beautiful to hear her say, “I have the moxie.” So empowering and hope giving to hear this.

[@theartfuldodger5326]

This was so amazing. Hearing her declare how imperative it is to keep the humanity in education with studying the humanities, this is what is lacking in education when everyone keeps pushing for STEM only subjects & yet keeps trying to ban studying history, culture & languages. THANK YOU!❤

[@ColorsFlight]

I just put my daughter in public school for the first time in February she is in 8th grade going into 9th and they don't even have history in 9th grade. I am like WTF why is there no history class.

[@theartfuldodger5326]

@colorsflight6432 seriously? Where are you where they don't have a history class for freshmen? 😬 I teach HS, & I've never seen it not required...at least for 9th grade for sure. Our state does world history in 9th, I believe.

[@GingerRyska]

I left a very familiar circumstance 27 years ago after 21 years of marital hell. Oh dear this brings to mind so many uncomfortable memories. I was so filled with fear by my husband and those in the "church" that I just began planning my escape years before I left. I was never good enough in every aspect. I even at one point planned my suicide because I truly believed that the world around me should not be subjected to me because I was so imperfect. I now read G-d's word in a whole new light and now know true peace and joy.❤

[@not_you_i_dont_even_know_you]

21:47 at a christian high school that was fairly "normal" my friend was stalked by a kid in our class who kept saying god wanted then to be together. None of the teachers or her father would help end it. People told her to indulge him and go to prom with him instead of teaching him boundaries. I feel bad for both of them, as he was tols this was the process. But it was a nightmare for her and i was horrified.

[@brittlebricks10]

That's disgusting. Also from a theological point of view, how utterly puerile. The adults should have stepped in.

[@embr4065]

How did it end?

[@ainemeagher4830]

Thank you for speaking up. I left a DV situation and I’ve often said since a DV relationship/family life is EXACTLY like a cult on a smaller scale.

[@debbyfazfphotography]

WOW! Shelise, you're right! I knew patriarcal cults were horrible and WRONG, but this takes it to a whole new level! I'm a Christian; however, this is NOT how I believe. In fact, the church where I am a member teaches women are 100% equal to men. We are respected and given the same opportunities as the men in the congregation. Our leadership would not in any way support these abuses. Good for you, Tia! You made the right move! ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I’m so happy to hear that those churches exist!

[@1ccTooTall]

Same. And we have Presbyterian in our name.😛

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

So, here I am again as a 71 year old woman who escaped at 18 from the systems of these religious ideologies Calvanist , Gothard, etc. Your book is on my list. I hope that it is available as an Audible selection.

[@ivanasimic2072]

Teach us please, young women MUST to know!!

[@Jadey7799]

She is so articulate. Expressing so many things, one after another in the last 30 minutes especially, that I know to be true from experience, but never had the words. I’m so happy for her.

[@amysho2192]

The reason why they want you ti have a lot of kids, but don't prioritize health or education is because they teach the only thing that's important is the afterlife. So all that's important is living this "godly" life where the male is king and gets all the importance. It's genious actually. That's why it works. It works for them, but not for the women and children.

[@kirstensims138]

I’ve just come across Tia’s story and holy moly, it’s gripping. I watched as my husband of almost 12 years got pulled closer and closer towards this type of fundamentalist belief structure and it was like watching a slow motion train wreck (our lives) as he barreled towards this cliff. I too had a baby born with congenital heart defects and it was a harrowing, transformative journey that also helped me reset my bearings. I also consider that a pivot point towards needing to get out. I’m so sorry to hear of the loss of her baby girl. While my story isn’t completely over, my husband was just sentenced to prison for 5 years-to-life for rape. Getting out was hell, and it landed me in an exam room undergoing a rape kit. I’m so inspired by Tia’s journey, and so terrified that I’m hearing some of the darkest pieces of my husband’s theology starting to make its way into mainstream politics. We have to fight. Hard.

[@DianaEriksen]

@kirstensims138 Peace & love to you!

[@jennajeffries6872]

I had a very similar experience. I only stayed 8 months but I had been exposed to IBLP at a young age and my father is a pastor in a southern baptist church so those ideals were instilled in me at a young age. I have recently left the church and I am getting married soon to the kindest man I have ever met. Yet he is an atheist. I finally found the freedom I seemed outside of the church

[@chelseal654]

We are HERE for Tia Levings ❤

[@acelynnbrock2121]

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I was raised in the IFB and it's similar as far as indoctrination. I appreciate you reminding me of the movie "thief in the night". I am currently in therapy and working through a program that is helping me be present in my body and not disassociate. I will be watching that movie as an adult to help myself work through those uncomfortable feelings I had as a child. I was around 7-8 when I was made to watch that movie at church. It's important for my healing journey to listen to others that have gone through the same or similar things that I did. As an adult, with small children, I was given "to train up a child" to read ans implement, because my sensory/autistic toddler was considered out of control and I was not raising him right. Your story has helped me be a stronger and more brave version of myself. Thank you for that.

[@andreeapstl]

These interviews are so healing. I don't come from a religious background, but from generational narcisistic abuse. My expirience is so close from these ones that I feel close to the healing journey of your guests. Thank you! ❤

[@jcc6789]

I've followed Tia and hear her 100%. I was in the same church in FL as her when my daughter was a middle and high schooler - and at home, I was in a covert abusive marriage and indescribable abuse still from my family of origin - but the good Christian wife stays.... and i did, in the marriage almost 30 years and didn't escape the other family situation until my 50's. All in the name of IFB, Southern Baptist and being bred from a tiny child by a mentally ill mother who got ahold of a KJV Bible. I am free of it all now, all the abuse. No, i don't believe in hell after this life anymore, I lived a literal hell here on earth for five decades. I finally was truly reborn-when i escaped the sickness of all this hidden abuse at the hands of those i was entrusted to as a child and as a wife. There's so many suffering and trapped just as i was and as Tia was. Thankfully we got out.

[@carabeingblue4016]

We are most definitely our own saviors. As the popular audio goes, “No one is coming.” After all those years of surviving life, it is worth the seemingly added effort of breaking free to live deliberately. I loved this level of intellectual stimulation. Great guest. Thanks Shelise!

[@jennahart84]

Tia is an absolute queen. Someone posted on FSU that this interview went up, the way I RAN over here!! Absolutely cannot wait to read her book! You both are heroes, so glad you've escaped and you are helping others to do the same.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you for your support!

[@SamD.6445]

It's really important to hear the very clear statements that this has a political arm with political aims to enforce these values for all women. It's not said enough.

[@julieproctor6039]

The Seven Mountains Mandate

[@jayroger7612]

Fantastic interview Shelise! Many of your guests have written memoirs... may I suggest something? It would be great if there were a reading list on your channel! In the about page or shop maybe? 😊❤

[@user-hr1ql2fu3f]

This is a fantastic idea! I would love that as well.

[@CheyenneTerry970]

The SBC is really, really awful. I had a terrible experience that involved SA, that I’ve kept a secret for over 20 years. I know former ministers who are on the SBC known pedophiles list that was published a couple of years ago. Looking back, being involved in the SBC really did a number on me up until I decided to just walk away from it for good in my 30’s.

[@Himmiefan]

OMG, the spiritual abuse blogs have a lot to say about the SBC.

[@Dragonflyathena]

I’m glad you walked away and are still here. ❤ You’re strong and inspiring- I hope you continue to heal and thrive. ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you for sharing❤️ it’s so gross how they turn a blind eye to predators and put children at risk. You deserved better

[@ashlieleavelle]

My Husband is a SBC pastor. We are trying, with many others, to stop abuse. Stop the secrets and coverups. So many in clergy were wrong every time they counseled an abused woman to stay with her husband. That is so wrong. Or a sa victim. If we know or even suspect abuse, we call the police. My Husband would never counsel a woman in danger to stay with her husband. It is horrible that those behind a pulpit would hide abuse. Terrible. Just know many of us are trying to change this! ❤

[@stacey5440]

I'm so sorry you went through this horror. This is a terrible shame on the SBC. Your own story and the pervasive, known SA perpetrators in their ranks. I know there are spaces where churches are healthy -- and I'm glad for that -- but I'm not sure how the whole organization didn't fall apart under the weight of this incredible sin (word chosen quite intentionally). Thank you for sharing your story. I hope you continue to find peace.

[@ceb591]

I think it is clever to name this Train Up a Wife - the extreme man will think this a good book for their wife. Bazinga patriarchy!

[@nadine8742]

She is such a smart, educated, brave woman. Wow. Inspirational❤

[@SarahBent]

I love to hear Tia's perspective because she lived it as a grown adult and mother. Many of the survivors were children and their perspective is important. Tia is one of few who was an adult.

[@eevans02]

I am barely 10 minutes in and I feel like you are describing how I grew up and what the expectations were for me as the eldest daughter. Going to take my time with this episode! Its going to be eye opening for sure! Snuggle blanket and mug of tea for comfort.

[@MissMac.33]

Tia’s evolution is one of the most amazing transformative changes I’ve seen. She seems so happy and by the end of the interview, I felt so incredibly happy for her. She has an amazing way of bringing you into her story, completely invested in her well being and happiness. Great interview.

[@aprilwashington3150]

All I keep hearing is real life episodes of The Handsmaid's Tale on Hulu 😢

[@SonyaBalloonMamaOliver]

This is why organized religion scares me!! Thank you for sharing your story.

[@evangelesong6319]

Organised religion is scary because it's man made. Following Christ isn't about following man such as the pope. It's about a direct relationship with Jesus and reading the bible for ourselves. Knowing the bible so that no-one can decieve us. The abuse this lady suffered is not in the bible at all.

[@onti__veros]

So glad to see Tia Levings here! I follow her on Instagram and really appreciate her insights ❤

[@themuffins4]

I found Tia on tik tok and I appreciate her so so much. This is the world I left after 3 ridiculous years inside of the IFB and IBLP culture. She had helped me process so much of it and I'm very grateful to you Tia. You are vocal, and powerful, and thank you for sharing your story.

[@NJ-Cathie]

I am so glad you interviewed Tia. Her story is an amazing journey of recovery.

[@irisalexander9148]

This bears absolutely no relationship to the Presbyterianism I was brought up in. It amazes me how it has become so corrupted by men, for the sole benefit of men.

[@cde3788]

I just read a history of Scotland and the early Presbyterians were mad when Mary Queen of Scots wanted tolerance for Catholics, Protestants and Episcopalians. Also no witch burning. They were so mad about banning witch burning. So the Presbyterians have a fundamentalist history even if specific American congregations are liberal.

[@Himmiefan]

There are many flavors Presbyterianism. PCUSA is normal. PCA and OPC are very conservative, and there are others that are even more. EPC is a mixture of normal congregations and very conservative ones.

[@cristinamz2137]

​​​@@cde3788 I would like to read that book, or article, or website... can you please provide the title? 🙏 please and thank you.

[@cde3788]

@@cristinamz2137 - I listed to this audiobook. While it is Called a Short History of Scotland, it is an 8 hour listen. kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5zcmaWwbpmCq5Y - I acknowledge that how the Presbyterians were in the time of Mary Queen of Scots vs now is very different.

[@cristinamz2137]

@@cde3788 Thank you, it's very much appreciated.

[@Marcela-tx7gh]

I'm very thankful that Tia doesn't just talk about her experiences, she contextualizes it within the whole of the abusive systems she was in and dissects elements of it (how the fear of eternal punishment keeps people in line, how there's the strategy of people self punishing, why people join these groups, etc.). If her book is written in a similar style, I've no doubt it will help people escape similar situations. I remember watching SHP and how Tia's story in particular struck me. I'm not a mother, I don't plan on becoming a mother, but even imagining a situation where a hypothetical child of mine was threatened is crushing. She was and is so strong for helping herself, her kids, and others. Thank you both Shalise and Tia for this video!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I agree!

[@vf1923]

It's so wonderful she speaks about the humanities as powerful. Yes! Education is not only about how to earn money but also to learn and understand about the world--that is power. It's not a coincidence that such things--literature, history--are heavily controlled by religious groups.

[@atelier27]

The whole “Trad wife” thing right now feels like this.

[@geobus3307]

I am amazed that this woman essentially learned on her own, the language to express what happened to her. The growth she has achieved with that knowledge is truly remarkable! I hope other women who need to hear this will find their own path out!

[@Neku628]

Does anyone else feel or grew up in an environment where you or mom were constantly being shamed to be a tradwife? Moms feeling like they failed their roles because they have to work and support their kids in addition to their husbands?

[@alejajm1666]

My mom was one of the shaming moms... I grew up lower middle class in Mexico, in the early 00's. Big city, too. Her mom did odd jobs to make ends meet and two of her sisters were working moms. She shamed them so much for needing help with childcare, used to say about other women that they shouldn't have kids if they're not going to take care of them, and warned me that she would never watch my kids should I need it. She was a stay at home mom till I was 18, and had a hell of a time finding work since she has no formal experience or education beyond middle school. She still shamed working moms after becoming one herself.

[@Neku628]

@alejajm1666 I really wish women and girls got seen more as just housewives. I grew up also lower class in Virginia. My mom was also distant from her sisters and didn't decide to move west until she got a job opportunity. My sister and I were so happy when she finally divorced her racist, redneck husband

[@rroadmap]

​@@alejajm1666 Wow! Women can be so cruel to each other. They should be supportive of other women.

[@booksquid856]

That is sad. The shade is cast in both directions on this issue. Women are hard on each other.

[@jenniferj5324]

Nope.

[@kimberlyaz5280]

She was married to a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Preyed upon literally. Marriage is a beautiful representation of Christ relationship with his church . Tia’s experience was not a marriage in this sense. I’m devastated for her.

[@susannehuber3996]

All churches hate women and are only there to give men a cover up to mistreat us.

[@micaelahill8905]

It can be. Don't diminish the experiences of untold numbers of women in similar situations because too many religions teach and promote deliberate control and diminishment of women

[@danilaroche1156]

​ She's not diminishing any woman's experience.

[@AlisonKenzoland]

So great to see Tia on Cults to Consciousness! Welcome and thanks! Thanks Shelise & Jonathan

[@deeeeeess]

Holy moly! Shalise! Coming back from maternity leave with a *BANG*! These two most recent guests and interviews are setting a pretty high bar!

[@barbarabentley5345]

As Tia shared she brings back moments in my own journey, giving myself permission to get out of marriage to borderline husband- yeah for the friend who provided a book, including how to get out. Also my brave eldest who got out, spoke truth and opened my eyes to the damage I allowed. I am still walking in my faith and have a wonderful Christian community, the leaders of the church agreed for me to meet with them when the divorce was fresh. My message to them was to ask a woman if she was safe- My husband was a difficult, argumentative male and I was isolated by him- Now I am free, but it took 30 years of marriage before I could see things were not going to get better and were rapidly getting worse. My children have told me they would not come home ever if he was still with me- now we all have no contact with my ex. Safe and growing and happy -

[@rs33823]

That's great!

[@peacenyk]

Wow! What a powerful interview. I am so thankful for this woman's voice. I was always against the patriarchy and religious right in politics, I understood the danger but she helped me to realize how pervasive it is. We need every voice to be out. Thank you so much for your work. It is so important

[@Egg_Apron]

Heirarchies are interlocking and even strengthen by interlocking with each other. Each interlocking heirarchy subtracts more agency and power from the person under domination. Also, each heirarchy serves to bolster and normalize the other heirarchies. It is like living in a big city surrounded by high rise buildings. A person raised in that environment can't visualize living in a wide open space.

[@heidi190]

another profound conversation, graciously thankful that you share your story here, there's a big audience that should know it

[@CarolynandherClothes]

Your channel is giving me so much to read, I cannot keep up!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Same! 😂

[@jennyeknox8037]

Thank you so much for sharing your story. It's so important that we as a society fully understand exactly what is happening to these women & girls & boys. I'm so thankful for your healing. Spending you both lots of love.

[@marysuze]

Mothering and especially having babies that were somewhat atypical and “needy” saved me from going too far into IBLP, evangelicism, and patriarchy. But because of having been exposed to all of that, I developed radar that kept me from getting sucked in. I avoided churches, women, homeschooling groups that were promoting this. I knew the lingo. I am so grateful to my children.

[@Beauty_For_Ashes.]

Tia, you are a beautiful human being. I am so appreciative of your bravery. Thank you so much for being here to speak for so many people who are afraid and are still on their way to healing. Also, thank you to the creators of this channel.

[@williampopper59]

Thanks for another very inspiring interview. Love Tia's passion for lifelong learning, curiosity and growth!

[@jahbern]

I listened to the audiobook all in one day and I was SOBBING for you, driving around town. People must have thought I was a mad woman. But your story was so touching and powerful that it was worth it. I’m SO proud and happy for you. ❤

[@lt-ug2pz]

The care and keeping of a writer should be a book all its own

[@MargLarson]

Your story was my life as well. I’m now free from that world. Thank you for sharing your story.

[@shannonobrien2572]

I’m so sorry you went through so much. I was married to an abusive fundamentalist man 1982-83. As horrible and traumatic as it was, it was nothing compared to what you and other women have gone through/ going through in the hyper conservative crap that “modern” fundamentalist churches teach “these days”. 😢

[@boby7249]

So wonderful to see you and hear your journey and how you survived .What a wonderful powerful women you have become. My hats off to you, all the very best for the future for yourself and children. May God be with you

[@paulascott5974]

She was excellent- one of the best I've ever heard. Thank you for bringing us all of these stories. So many thoughts I have, so much to unpack. But for now, I just need to say thank you. ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

❤️

[@MahsaBakhtiariM]

Such a brilliant and fascinating person Tia is. I was amazed and delighted by her wisdom❤

[@legallyoverton]

What a hero! I got chills especially when she talks about her healing journey.

[@joannahspurr9601]

Thank you so much for speaking up. I have been unpacking my own trauma in religion that did have some affiliations of IBLP. It's been emotional, and I am still learning more, but this has helped me know that some of the things I have experienced, I am not alone. Thank you, Shalesse, for giving us a voice.❤

[@BanglesAU]

I cannot imagine a church with 10k people in it, that is staggering! I was raised SDA and although we were much more moderate I have am still affected by that upbringing. I was so used to being told who I needed to be, how I had to act, that I feel like that at age 44 I do not know who I am, or what I want. My husband and I are doing our best to break the bad habits we were taught and raise our kids in a safe, caring family where they can be whoever they really are. I think we are going OK, my girls are 11 and talk to me and their dad about things we would never with our parents, especially around sex and sexuality, its so strange because it still makes me uncomfortable, but I do my best to be open with them.

[@l-kin3480]

I'm an SDA and it's very different for me. I've never been freer. There isn't any topic that is off limits in the churches I've attended. I've met individuals that are on the extremes of conservatism and liberalism but the movement as a whole has been nothing but a lifted experience.

[@audreywheeler9520]

I just pre-ordered your book. I relate to your story so so much. I can’t wait to read your book about healing. Somatic experiencing, polyvagal theory, and IFS was the missing piece I needed for MY healing, as well. ❤️

[@maryannehenderson6023]

This is an exceptional episode!!! Another view into ' domestic abuse '. It's terrifying and hopeful to see/ realize how widespread religions/ cults are being examined and called out. For me the alpha & omega is Human Freedom was always your birthright!

[@agraplava1678]

I could listen to this over and over. It is putting words to things I never could! Thank you so much

[@booksquid856]

Wow! That's such a good point!!! Even if you see healthy examples around you, not having the verbage to express those similar needs and boundaries for yourself really places you at risk!

[@Call-me-Emilio]

Just bought your book on Amazon. On the same subject but also tangentially, it amazes me when people try to rewrite history to make American slavery sound "not so bad". If this type of patriarchal abuse is happening in "Christian" homes right now, how on earth can people put forth that LEGALLY (at that time) enslaved people were not faring even worse?! This type of behavior is historical and ongoing and will only be stopped legally when the general population will stop wearing blinders to this behavior.

[@bethelmagic1]

Excellent chat! How very brave and inspiring you are, Tia. And, as always, Shelise, you are a brilliant interviewer! (And congrats on the new babba... 💟 from South Africa.)

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you! ❤️❤️❤️

[@staceyflaster7777]

Tia- you are so clear and intelligent. I am so happy you broke free of the cult and listened to your intuition. You were meant to study and learn and grow. That was a great interview. I can’t wait to read your book.