How accurate is a Civil War Smoothbore Musket at 100 yards?

According to preeminent KZbin comment scholars, the smoothbore musket is utterly useless beyond the range of 75 yards, “a total crap shoot,” as they say in technical language. And people who disagree with this deep historic wisdom are truly pseudo experts, misleading the community with BS that they yank out of their butts.
But… is it possible that this conventional knowledge may be wrong? Could somebody be wrong on the internet? Could a KZbin comment actually be proven to be incorrect through experimental archaeology?

[@hickok45]

I love my Harper's Ferry 1842. One of my very favorite firearms; however, I struggle a little at longer ranges. I attribute most missing to ME, though, and not to the smooth bore. One of these days I'll drill some holes into this antique and install a Leopold scope! :-) And if I do, I hope someone will have me arrested immediately!

[@papercartridges6705]

I think the 1842 is the very best of all the smoothbore muskets, in terms of balance and accuracy, quality, the lock, etc. And be careful, just threatening to drill an original gun for a scope is illegal in Pennsylvania.

[@davisrs1]

I installed a peep sight like my great grandfather's on my Flintlock and the groups improved dramatically. Scopes are not allowed in PA for hunting!

[@danielbenavides8287]

ITS HICKOK45!!!!!

[@knarftrakiul3881]

Also make sure to put anti can't bubble on that thing lol

[@gardnert1]

Just duct tape it on and you'll be fine! ;-)

[@fakjbf3129]

I remember a reddit thread where I pointed out that muskets were reasonably effective out to 100 yards and got a ton of downvotes with everyone and their mother calling me an idiot. Even when I cited period documentation about infantry training requirements and various military treatises written about the effective range of muskets, nothing would convince people that muskets were useful at such ranges. I even had some people claim that muskets couldn’t even reach 100 yards, just absolute lunacy shielded in conviction. Yeah if you go by modern accuracy standards it’s pretty bad, but in linear warfare being able to reliably hit a person sized target is all the accuracy you need and for that it’s perfectly capable.

[@papercartridges6705]

The smoothbore inaccuracy myth seems to have achieved a kind of religious frenzy, and if you question it, you are a heretic who must be purged. I don’t think in battle (especially ACW battle) soldiers did much aiming anyways, but to claim that the smoothbore musket simply cannot hit at 100 yards due to inherent limitations in the weapon system itself, is ridiculous. I don’t know where this myth came from.

[@Zaku186]

smooth brain smoothbore haters.

[@wittsullivan8130]

For some reason, people believe that only the "newest" technology is the "best" way to do things, which is ironic, since they're talking about blackpowder rifles versus smoothbore. When people could only afford smoothbore guns and their survival was based on their skill to hunt for food or fend off predators, they tended to be more serious and skilled with the tools they brung, not rely on technology to bring home the bacon or save their skins. And they weren't drilled for hour after hour, day after day like professional soldiers. I think some people need to use some moistened corncobs instead of Charmin to see a whole new perspective on life instead of being a hemorrhoid online. :)

[@Picolinni]

@@wittsullivan8130 I always love reminding those kinds of dead end tech that is now cutting edge due to changes in not just the technology itself, but also changes in ideals and sensibilities. Old isn't always bad. But there is this thing in the shooting community where they think they are special forces. It is one thing to learn how to shoot well, but it is something completely different to degenerate someone because they like something different or don't want to chase trends, which is what this sort love doing. Why would you stick a magazine in the side? Why would you go with a smooth bore. Why would you want a light, fast bullet. On and on and on.

[@sheepsfoot2]

Here's something i found to ponder about > " Southern arsenals had approximately 175,000 modern shoulder arms on hand at the beginning of the war. Of these, about 140,000 were smooth-bored, not including arms provided from private citizens. " Well those first battles of the civil war the confederates were kicking arse and also didn't Stonewall Jackson say the buck and ball was devastating against massed troops !

[@AllTheGoodNamesGoneReally]

In my gun club here in Austria, we have some musket enthusiasts firing old 1809 muskets from the Napoleonic era (the Tyrolean uprising against Napoleon and his Bavarian allies), and they perform quite well up to 100m, scoring consistently in a headsized circle. Definitley nothing to underestimate.

[@guntertorfs6486]

100m=about 109 yards.

[@alexbowman7582]

The ammunition weight and powder weight used in 1809 would have varied enough to affect the accuracy.

[@AllTheGoodNamesGoneReally]

@@alexbowman7582 They shoot from benches, with modern black powder, they cast the bullets themselves. Still, pretty impressive

[@alexbowman7582]

@@AllTheGoodNamesGoneReally WW2 snipers would have a preferred bullet, sometimes even subsonic, same weight same powder preferably. Modern bullets are close to 100% similar to each other, back in old times and if your making the bullets and powder the accuracy would be different for different bullets.

[@niclbicl]

also from austria in which gun club are you because my people use M1798 Austrian smoothbore muskets and old tyrolean scheibenbüchsen and im in tyrol

[@jimdavis2385]

First, as everyone on KZbin knows, lead at that distance may penetrate a paper target, but it won't pierce the thick Civil War uniforms. In fact, more people died from heat rash than bullets during the War between the States. Lastly, the deadliest battle happened at Stone Mountain, Georgia because they have lots of stones there and people stopped using smooth-bore muskets and used slingshots like David did with Goliath. (Good video!)

[@papercartridges6705]

Finally, someone who knows real history! My next video is testing the accuracy of a Stone Mountain slingshot.

[@TheJimyyy]

Modern bullet are still made of lead and at 100 yard it gonna penetrate even if is a musket ball it still have enough power to kill a man at that range

[@trevorjameson3213]

@@papercartridges6705 If you're talking about a shephard's sling, those things are extremely deadly in the hands of a skilled person, and quite accurate even at a decent distance. I saw one being shot at about 30 yards or so, and the results were devastating and destructive on the target. He used a fist-sized round stone, and radar showed it to be moving at around 200mph. So it would be really interesting to see you test one out! Loved this video of the smoothbore musket, that was educational and fun!

[@barryallenporter8127]

I love the twist on the Korean War myth that Chinese soldiers had “bulletproof” coats that .30 carbine couldn’t pierce. Or that .30 carbine is somehow anemic.

[@cloroxbleach6868]

Im hoping you are joking bc no battles took place at stone mountain 😂

[@GS-xt8fu]

My grandfather dispelled this at a gun range her in Ohio several years ago. He has passed on since that time. He shot ten rounds and used a rest. He hit a five foot target that was 30 inches wide, nine times. They were spread 3ft and a few inches more, top to bottom. We were not sure about the missing one. We believed it hit wide right. He said what you did, it’s not perfect but I sure as hell would not want to be on the other end.

[@jaybabcock4557]

At 10 yards. LMAO

[@hardcase-69]

Unfortunately troops back in the day didn't have the pleasure of using a rest. They were on a battlefield getting shot at

[@usnchief1339]

@@hardcase-69 What does a rest have to do with getting shot at? The rest keeps things consistent for testing purposes. A rifle or smooth bore without a rest in the hands of someone being shot at would both suffer in accuracy.

[@hardcase-69]

@usnchief1339 yes, exactly. If it's a lot easier to miss with a rifle then it's waaayyyyy easier to miss with a smoothbore

[@stinkbug4321]

People lying and Berring false facts in the comments section of KZbin, never heard tell of it.

[@kugs91]

I'm not an expert in this topic, but my gut tells me in the high stress situation of combat, mechanical accuracy was likely not always the limiting factor in the effectiveness of small arms fire.

[@jason200912]

Wasn't the high stress exactly.. these are conscripts drafted against their will who have fired with a 2 week training before they marched out. More emphasis was put on reloading and viewing instead of how to Line up the sights. Fear does mess it up quite a bit. But a toddler that's scared and a toddler that isn't scared both aren't going to be very proficient with how to aim

[@ElZilchoYo]

The lesser accuracy of the smoothbore is going to be exaggerated by the soldier in line combat. That's why the French didn't bother adopting rifles in the Napoleonic wars some other armies, their light skirmishers used smoothbores and were still effective because they were properly aiming before shooting. Line infantry didn't aim so much as just level their muskets and fire. If i remember right one thing constantly reinforced was to get the men to stop pointing their muskets at a high angle which they would instinctively do for some reason during volleys but to keep them flat and level.

[@pmccoy8924]

@@jason200912 Buddy seemed choked about not being an expert. Odd. He didn't prove much here besides he shot a model 1842 a few times.

[@WhichDoctor1]

@@ElZilchoYo right up until after WW2 all armies really struggled to get soldiers to actually want to hit the enemy. So how accurate the guns were was frequently irrelivent. I would imagine the persistence of line infantry in this period aiming too high was simply because most of them were normal decent people and didn't want to kill anyone. Its only with modern psychologically guided training methods and professional volenteer armies post WW2 that soldiers can be relied upon to aim at their opponents in combat

[@damoclessword4629]

On my last trip to Gettysburg some 20 years ago, I recall the rangers telling us there was one rifle found with 27 unfired loads in its barrel! Someone got a little excited during the battle.@@presidenteden6498

[@davidmurray5399]

I have a .577 Enfield which is reasonably accurate in my range experience, I've never fired it in a combat situation, which is an entirely different reality. During the Civil War, the quality of the ammunition and caps, weather conditions, enemy fire and the training and experience of the soldier were determining factors in how effective a weapon could be.

[@olivialambert4124]

As someone who hasn't properly looked into it and always just believed the general "wisdom", this was fascinating. I found the evidence pretty undeniable here. So I'm sure some hardened opinions will be looking to argue why the results are invalid, but you've at least changed my mind. It definitely wasn't a waste of time to run this test, I'm sure there's a lot more like myself who now have a more reasonable opinion of the smoothbore musket.

[@rogersmith8339]

The MLAGB in the UK used to have a competition where you had 5 minutes to shoot as many shots as you could at a man sized target at 100 yds. The Brown Bess always performed pretty well.

[@sandman9924]

Which was a Revolutionary War era musket, if memory serves.

[@rogersmith8339]

@@sandman9924 Spot on, but the only real difference was that it was flint lock.

[@fearlessfosdick160]

@@sandman9924 Right, which means that there is a slight delay between squeezing the trigger and the ignition of the charge. There is also a rather disconcerting flash that occurs when the powder in the pan ignites, but just before the weapon fires. One has to be used to that slight delay and the flash when firing the weapon.

[@alexbowman7582]

@@fearlessfosdick160the phrases “don’t go off half cocked” and “flask in the pan” originate from these guns.

[@fearlessfosdick160]

@@alexbowman7582 Flash in the pan. It is a phrase used to denote the circumstance in which the charge in the pan goes off but does not ignite the main charge.

[@joshbagley1959]

As a long-time F&I and Rev War reenactor shooting 1st and 2nd Model Brown Bess muskets - and a 22 year Army Veteran and Army officer - I concur with your points. I haven't done a lot of target shooting with my Brown Bess muskets but two things come into play - learning how to fire your particular weapon and how round the ball is and how tight it fits in the barrel. I know many reenacts who hunt with their Brown Bess muskets and regularly take deer at 75-100+ yards. I know people who regularly target shoot with their muskets and they're fairly good, regularly putting rounds on target. The crap shoot comes into how good the shooter is, the quality of the powder (and hang-time), and how round the ball is. Even in 18th and early 19th c. naval battles gun captains would look for the most perfectly round canon ball for their first broadside. The canon balls would often be chipped and checked as part of routine maintenance to ensure they were smooth and round. The same is true of round lead balls. Taking the sprues and other odd lead bits off the musket ball to get it as round as possible makes a major difference in how it travels down and exits the barrel, impacting its overall flight path. So tell those jackasses to get a real job and do real research before they spout their stupidity and prove how wrong they are! 🙂

[@cognomenunknown2144]

Man, from a relic hunter and enthusiast here in Sharpsburg Maryland, I can tell you with certainty this is the most entertaining thing I’ve seen on KZbin in weeks. I’ve found dropped round balls and minie balls. Seems to me they’d be ready for re-use. Is that the case? Could you imagine firing 160plus year old bullets from the Maryland campaign?!?!? Subscribed. Excellent content.

[@patrickancona1193]

If it’s in good shape & you have the proper rifle, HEAVE TO GOOD MAN!!!

[@vielumiereg9794]

I grew up in Kennesaw GA, and have found numerous minie balls as well. Honestly, I've cleaned a few of them up because I've had so many of the damn things laying around lol. They look genuinely in good enough shape to be fired to be honest with you.

[@cognomenunknown2144]

@@vielumiereg9794 Yeah man I’ve forgotten one or two of them were left in my pocket when they were thrown in the washer/dryer. They come out shiny almost like new.

[@davisrs1]

My experience! It wasn't the bore, but switching from round ball to Minié ball that made a striking difference, bringing groups to 3 inches with a flintlock!

[@renedupont6116]

Completely agree. A spin does nothing to a spherical ball. Spin is only useful to keep orientation, but a sphere has no orientation.

[@kissmy_butt1302]

Thanks. I was trying to figure out what ammo they were using. A round ball is going to lose accuracy over distance. The Minie ball was a major upgrade and pretty much made line tactics obsolete.

[@redtra236]

@@kissmy_butt1302 The main thing is the minie ball expands when fired to grab the rifling so the rifle doesn't quickly become super hard to load from the fouling, this is why rifles were rarely used in combat prior to it existing. I'd imagine they are more accurate though

[@digitalnomad9985]

@@renedupont6116 "A spin does nothing to a spherical ball." Then explain to me a curve ball. Spin with a random orientation to the direction of travel causes random and continuous curving of the sphere's path. Rifles existed in the Revolutionary War era WITH SPHERICAL AMMO. They existed FOR A REASON. They had greater accuracy and range FOR A REASON, because the uniform spin imposed around the axis of pointing prevents it from spinning any other way. Prior to the invention of the conical "minie ball" projectile, you had to ram the ball through the rifling to muzzle load a rifle. This made the rate of fire slow and arduous. If there were not a compensating performance advantage, rifles would not have existed, even for hunting.

[@renedupont6116]

@@digitalnomad9985 Curve balls are a matter of friction or of the degree of non-sphericity. As for the Rev. Era Rifles: if you have one with its ammo, try it out. Maybe you're rght, mabe not.

[@stuarthamilton5112]

Allow me to compliment the outstanding form of your musketry, sir. The way you handle that rod is supreme, as is your aim. Well done! And that smirk and smile. A man who knows he knows what he's doing. Good to see it!

[@Sgtklark]

I love this demonstration. I always suspected that smooth bores were more accurate than most authors admit.

[@captainnyet9855]

Smoothbore muskets are such a massively uderrated weapon that you'll constantly see people on the internet comparing the weapon unfavorably to bow & arrow; it's a bit ridiculous. I think videogme mentality plays a large role here; people hear "a rifle is ten times more accurate than a smoothbore" and assume that means muskets will lose to rifles every time when really, the shooter is going to be by far the more deciding factor. (case in point, most people are not good enough shots for the rifling to actually make a significant difference; and only with extensive training in long range shooting can the rifle's accuracy be put to use)

[@McLarenMercedes]

@@captainnyet9855 "Videogame mentality". A.k.a. parroting whatever other parrots repeat endlessly. Simple, fast answers must be true... Memes are a universal truth... I've heard many thousands claim this therefore it must be a fact.

[@ifbfmto9338]

@@captainnyet9855At 100 yards or maybe even 200 yards, training/rate of fire will matter the most, absolutely But at increasing distances the smoothbore muskets will start to become ineffective a lot faster than the rifles So it really depends on the conditions/circumstances of the fight If you’re talking about 400-500 yards, some of the rifles could still be effective at such a range, and none of the smoothbores would be terribly effective, so at that point I’d rather have (decently) trained soldiers with rifles, over highly trained/skilled soldiers with smoothbores But for shorter ranges you’ll pretty much always pick the better trained/skilled soldiers That’s my take, at least The rifles gave you the ability to be effective at a longer range, but that only actually mattered some of the time

[@dolsopolar]

@@captainnyet9855many people still believe bow and arrows are superior than muskets and that they only get replaced because bows are harder to train (ignoring every other parts of the world with long archery traditions that quickly dropped their bows once they got a hand on firearms)

[@shellnexus1]

As someone who can’t own guns in his country and is fascinated with the Civil War, I am so glad to have come across your channel. Thank you and please keep up the amazing content ❤

[@davefellhoelter1343]

Hmmmm? Cub Med, nice place to never visit. FYI Black Powder arms are Knott "guns?" in This Country! and can be Shipped to your door like a Toaster! God Bless! I Pray you found your Way.

[@sheepsfoot2]

What kind of country do you live in ? and what kind of Government don't trust its own citizens to own guns ? ..if i was you i would move mate !

[@shovelhead2155]

​@@sheepsfoot2Remember there are more politicians in the USA fighting against gun rights than for. We might end up in the same boat if we dont watch whats happening and speaking on it, and voting accordingly.

[@davefellhoelter1343]

YOU ARE NOT! ME "Mate!" YOU GAVE UP YOUR "ARMS!" MATE! WILLINGLY! out of Our Cold DEAD Fingers!@@sheepsfoot2

[@sergeantbigmac]

@@sheepsfoot2 I say this as a fellow American; There are 190+ countries on this planet and majority of those restrict guns in some or all capacity. We are one of the few with right to gun ownership enumerated in our laws. We really need to stop acting like we are the center of the universe and everyone elses way of life bends to ours because it really makes Americans look bad, besides when you think about it we are quite privileged to be born here and experience these types of guns laws since the vast majority of the people in this world cant or wont.

[@blaphtome9382]

This must have been supremely satisfying. I regularly watch YT experts make assertions about my profession that are completely absurd and it drives me nuts. Well done.

[@kingalf4828]

KZbin is full of "experts" who havnt even touched these weapons let alone fired 1 - well done containing yr patience..

[@jayejaycurry5485]

Thanks for the video. Not long ago, I heard that an old marksmanship manual was found in British archives. Reportedly it stated that a British soldier was expected to hit a man-sized target at 150 yards at least 50% of the time, and the same target at 100 yards at least 75% of the time. I've been considering buying a 1st model "Long Land" Brown Bess Musket in which to use both ball and shot (not at the same time). Now, I'm closer to doing that.

[@mcampbe41]

If you are planning to buy a reproduction musket do not buy one made in India. While they are commonly used by reenactors the brown bess made by Petersoli is much better. The one from India are fundamentally wall hangers that can be converted while the Petersoli is designed to be fired.

[@EggPottsKnock]

@@mcampbe41Your correct about the early Indian reproduction’s but the latest ones are very good and half the price of the Italian repro’s.

[@GermanHockey]

Great video debunking the theory that the smoothbore is somehow “terrible” by mid-19th century standards. Remember everyone: rifles may have been more or prevalent, but in the American Civil War when you’re fighting with regiments that have hardly any concept of ballistics or marksmanship instruction (at least early in the war) it doesn’t exactly matter on if you have a rifled musket, or a smoothbore. Most soldiers contrary to popular belief did not actually have good musket training until their first engagements. Great video though, glad the smoothbores are getting some love on the channel.

[@goldenhide]

Definitely Brett's thesis on why these rifled-muskets were so woefully and terribly employed. And Rob over at BML can attest as much as Brett to the importance of the School of Musketry at Hythe. Which the US nor CS Armies had time or the ability to create and "train the trainers" to return to their regiments and teach all these time consuming lessons to.

[@jeffreyrobinson3555]

I would point out that the battle of Gettysburg, when most troops north and south had rifles, and the battle of Waterloo when most troops had muskets had similar numbers of troops, and the fighting took place at similar ranges, and the casualties were about the same percentage , the two battles having about the same number of men involved

[@rogersmith8339]

One technique that improves smoothbore accuracy no end is a thick felt shotgun type wad both sides of a fairly loose fitting ball rammed down hard on top of a fairly heavy charge. Recoil is pretty heavy but accuracy is surprising.

[@stevekaczynski3793]

By the US Civil War, smoothbores were definitely on the way out, and even muzzle-loading rifles were obsolescent - the future belonged to the breechloader.

[@rogersmith8339]

@@stevekaczynski3793 The better muzzle loaders were more accurate than the best cartridge rifles for quite some time.

[@FUNshoot]

This is a perfectly reasonable response against someone armed with lutefisk.

[@Jermanaut]

Shooting at 100yrds offhand and hitting consistently tells me all I need to know. I bought into the short range myth myself because it's what you hear. But hearing a thing compared to seeing and experiencing it, are 2 completely different things. You clearly showed that yes indeed, 100yrd shots are not that difficult and fairly quickly achieved with a smoothbore.

[@TheLoveFindersBand]

You are correct from my experience of Brown Besses and the like. About a 6" group at 50m isn't unusual and about 18" at 100m. And with the bullet drift is just as likely to head towards the point of aim as away from it. I have a smoothbore matchlock that easily shoots 3" groups at 50m with a big charge.

[@garyfeist9254]

After watching Turn: Washington’s Spies, I’m just happy to watch more musket accuracy and practical application videos on KZbin. Thanks a lot for the experience!

[@jalse616]

Love the intro. Very MacKenzie like from British muzzleloader.

[@kamikazemelon787]

Wow, you are incredibly fast with the reload on that musket. Never seen your channel before but I'll be subscribing! Great work

[@markbajek2541]

even faster at 2X speed !

[@fluffymainecoon1953]

Gettysburg has about the same numbers engaged and casualties as Waterloo (about 50k dead and wounded). However, Gettysburg took place over 3 days, while Waterloo was a single day. One would expect, if the rifle musket was employed appropriately, that the casualties would be significantly greater than a largely smoothbore battle occurring c. 50 years before.

[@daveyjoweaver6282]

Well I’ll tell you Brett, I have an 1829 Army issue, N. Starr 69cal. That I restored and shoot. It had been a flintlock converted to cap lock in the 1840s and at a hundred yards I certainly wouldn’t want to be the target. Back last September my daughter visited from Portland Oregon and because we both love history, we’ve often visited Gettysburg over the years, I live in Lancaster Co. so before we visited Gettysburg, I took her to the range and we shot the old 1829 so she could get an idea of the power experienced by all those soldiers in the Civil War. My results with 80 grains of powder are much like yours. Of course learning your musket is also a factor. I shot mine quite a few times and the more I did the better I became. Oh yes Sir, that old 1829 will do just fine at a hundred yards! I’ve seen many of your Fine Videos I might add, and you’ve proven more than once that a smooth bore ain’t nothin to laugh at. Then you imagine a long line of men firing smooth bores and Holy Moly, a wall of lead. It gives me a huge Appreciation for those soldiers and a much better understanding of what they went through. So Kind Thanks Brett and Many Blessings and for all your research! It is super interesting and greatly Appreciated! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania

[@dragonhealer7588]

Very nice. As General Layette commented, " no soldier was hit at 200 metres by a musket that WAS AIMED AT HIM" Meaning at 200 meters you likely hit the soldier next to your aim. The whole point of the smooth bore musket was the high rate of fire, so devastating in volley fire. Rifles were a precision weapon which took time to load.

[@andrewhirsch6472]

Yes! That was the trade-off in the muzzle-loading era; rate of fire versus accuracy. This is why Gen. George Washington preferred the vast majority of his troops to have smoothbores, so they could sling more lead the enemy's way over the course of a battle. He also allowed for a few designated riflemen to "seek targets of opportunity," usually officers.

[@redtra236]

The minie rifle got around the loading issue to get the best of both though

[@RADIOACTIVEMASCULINITY]

You must be a pretty decent shot 💪 I was a LE range instructor for many years and I’ve had people who couldn’t hit a man size target for 7 out of 8 from bench rest with an iron sight AR lol Seriously though this was neat to see because I’ve always heard that smooth bore myth and didn’t know the truth either way. I would be interested to see this repeated from bench rest to see even more what the musket is capable of under ideal conditions

[@artemusp.folgelmeyer4821]

EXACTLY. Take the human/operator error out of the equation as much as possible.

[@DA-br9xd]

Absolutely love it! 👏 I have never seen this channel before, but loved this video. It's obvious there is one person that has closely studied this subject and one who sounds like they may have breezed over an article about the Crimean War once 😂

[@roberttaylor5995]

BRILLIANT video! I used to shoot a .45" cal tightly patched Hornaday lead ball through a Kentucky / Pennsylvania style smooth bore musket at 65 yards and get approx a 9 inch group accuracy at the distance without trying too hard. Do not underestimate the accuracy of a smooth bore, if you are using the correct load of powder and a tight fitting patched lead ball in the bore. Rob, UK.

[@JimmySailor]

What about the infamous “Buck and Ball” load? It would be interesting to see the effect at 100 yards. There must be a crossover point where BNB becomes less effective due to lower mass of the projectiles. Common sense would say that would be around 100 yards. Not to mention the spread would be enormous. Then again the advantage of hitting the guy your shooting at for sure has a nice ring to it, and I would think it would be hard to not put a hole in a man sized target from 100 yards with BNB.

[@papercartridges6705]

I've found it to be pretty disappointing at 100 yards. After I shot these 8 rounds my friend Nick (who owns the musket) shot at it some more with buck and ball, and only a couple buckshot hit. It seems to fall really fast, at 100 yards you need to aim about a foot above a soldier's head to get the buckshot out there. But at 50 yards it's wicked.

[@davefellhoelter1343]

Basically it's a 200 plus grn ball depending on shooter and weapon, or what was avalible with THREE .38 cal balls, or a truck followed with angree bees! hitting a target. So a 45 acp and 3x9 mills down range at once!

[@jharchery4117]

I think your southern accent was very convincing. Now, a Baltimore accent, that's a tough one...

[@lawrencecarlstrom3465]

Excellent video. I always took for granted people knew what they were talking about with the smoothbore musket. Of course I never had a chance to check it out. I didn't have a dog in the fight, but congratulations. I'm always glad to learn something real.

[@baliusd]

Great video, I have always thought the smoothbore was never given its due. "The true dispenser of wisdom is KZbin commenters" cracked me up. You will never be short of armchair experts on KZbin.

[@jollyjakelovell4787]

Darn I though there would be cans of lutefisk blasted.

[@papercartridges6705]

Best to keep it sealed up in its containment vessel. Otherwise I have to call hazmat to clean up.

[@moojuice369]

@@papercartridges6705hazmat won’t touch it cuz it’s that bad, best to nuke from orbit…..to be sure.😳😳🙂🙂😌😌

[@riflemusket]

@@moojuice369they can BILL me. 😂😂😂

[@Rikalonius]

As someone else said, the tactics were more similar to archery in the ancient world. It was about sending a wall of lead into a grouping of soldiers, not necessarily a one-to-one engagement. Once the enemies got close enough, they closed for melee. I haven't read your book, but I've talked extensively about the failure of command to adjust tactics based on how effective the rifled musket was and how the Napoleonic tactics of past wars meant that many, many more men died in the meat grinders of Civil War battlefields.

[@voskresene]

Cool video. I'd never actually seen a guy load and fire a Civil War error weapon from start to finish before watching this video. It would have been rough to reload one of those in the heat of battle, but the guy in this video made it look easy.

[@lnichols1111]

I am wondering if there were problems with the quality of the powder provided by the federal government at that time which may have limited the range of both the smooth bore and the rifled musket.

[@papercartridges6705]

Interestingly enough the US Army purchased all its powder from private manufacturers during the Civil War. Mostly Hazard and Du Pont. For the most part it was pretty good powder, much better than the Reb stuff. The Confederates had no major powder mills in the south at the time of secession so they had to build government powder mills.

[@theeddorian]

The typical limits on range and accuracy with a smooth bore are, just as with with a rifleman, the shooter. Any muzzle loader can have problems in consistency because of things like the accuracy of powder measured between shots. Another problem can be consistent ramming. If the ball is not compressing the powder load equally at each shot the muzzle velocity can vary some due to inconsistent powder ignition rates. That is true even using a muzzle loading rifle, where windage can be considerably easier to control than elevation. Military riflemen and hunters were trained or learned to be very consistent in loading the rifle (or musket) for consistent results.

[@lnichols1111]

Thank you.@@papercartridges6705

[@ReaperStarcraft]

Thanks for the video demonstration. On the topic of hitting standing man-sized targets at 100 yards, something I'd be interested to learn more about is soldiers lying down while fighting. It seems that many civil war accounts are full of this behavior while other blackpowder warfare is not? Does the rifle musket have anything to do with it, is it just a uniquely American approach, or have I been misled about the frequency of troops seeking cover in earlier wars?

[@ThubanDraconis]

A lot of it has to do with reloading, I am sure. Pouring powder down the muzzle doesn't work so well when you are prone. And then, prior to the US Civil War it was expected that you might have to close in and fight with bayonetts, or that the enemy would close with you. And if you are flat on your belly when the enemy charges things probably won't go so well for you. But, by the time of the US Civil War you had better quality black powder. You had many breechloading and cartridge firearms starting to show up. And you had the Minie Ball. This is a bullet with a hollow base that can be dropped down the bore of a rifle fairly easily. Then when the powder is ignited the pressure expands the bullet out so it grips the groves of the rifle. (I think there was a built in plug that actually expanded the bullet in most cases, the effect is the same.) You saw how easy it was to get the ball down the muzzle of this musket in the video? That's because the ball is a tiny bit undersized. But had that been a rifle instead of a musket he would have had to have hammered the bullet down as the bullet has to bite into the rifling when loaded. That meant muzzle loading rifles were significantly slower to load than a musket, thus most militaries relied mostly on muskets often with some rifles around for the sharpshooters. And that's what the Minie Ball changed, loads as fast as a musket and as accurate as a rifle... since the projectile is a bit more aerodynamic than a round ball, even more accurate. Also, the percussion cap replaced the flintlock ignition system. That gave you a shorter lock time, the time between pulling the trigger and the gun going bang, which increased accuracy a bit too. So, pretty early on in the Civil War it became obvious that you really should seek some cover whenever possible, hide behind a wall dig a trench, something. And, by WW1 with smokeless powder bolt action rifles firing streamlined jacketed bullets... You were asking for it if any part of you could be seen by the enemy.

[@areyouavinalaff]

that intro was awesome, I caught myself being immersed in the story, then I was no longer immersed in the story, but then I realised it was awesome.

[@robertmosher7418]

The issue is that people think of black powder flint locks when they hear smooth bore musket. This was before the Minia bullet or round which, as you know, where created to more easily slide down the barrel and when the gas from the burning powder builds and begins to expand, the rear of the bullet, which is slightly hollowed out, will expand and will force the edges to the complete inside circumference of the bore so that the musket is more efficient. Very little of the powder burn is wasted and instead is consumed pushing the bullet out of the muzzle. This increased the speed of the round. The bullet was also no longer a circular, round and sphere shaped bullet. It was now shaped like a modern bullet, giving it a much higher ballistic coefficient. This also made them more accurate. But not as accurate as a rifled barrel. The rifling causes the projectiles to spin, which stabilizes it, and it produces a faster round that flies straighter as it overcomes the resistance of the air it is flying through. In fact Minia (I am a horrible speller, that's not how you spell it) is credited with the horrific wounds and higher numbers of casualties because the bullets were much improved over the sphere shaped rounds.

[@schmiddy8433]

Hope you also have some insight on revolvers and other BP pistols. I myself use to think that smoothbore flintlock pistols were virtually useless but as of recently i'm not so sure.

[@davefellhoelter1343]

USELESS? Stonners are Sawed OFF SHOT GUNS! called Pistols! the skill is the reliability of ignition, not the smooth of a bore. But I too would Love him to cover period pistols!

[@toothclaw6985]

It’s honestly amazing how the Civil War saw the use of everything from and including smoothbore muskets to Gatling guns, and all of them had at least some viable use.

[@dustinhamlin3925]

I have limited experience with black powder and muzzle loaders, but I've shot plenty of slugs out of smooth bore shotguns at 100 yards. I was able to hit a 6 inch bull consistently. I was shooting from a bench. I think you clearly demonstrated the accuracy of a smooth bore.

[@pilgrimm23]

Your Johnny Reb and Billy Yank skit was a hoot and your MiniSO-Tah accent was great! I liked your skit as much as the ones Duke Frazier did a while back. I have a old Brown Bess with which I have miraculously hit a 100 yard target once... only once. Also a few rifled weapons; 1858 Enfield, 1860 Springfield... and with these I am sort of Meh but then I am not a great shooter. Love collecting though. Keep up the great work

[@enjarichards8100]

I'm sure Todd would counter by quoting Homer Simpson: "Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true."

[@ohger1]

I've never fired a smooth-bore, but I've always been told that firing a musket ball was like throwing a paper airplane at a target.. Love when someone actually does a real world test.

[@BobDiaz123]

Wow, I'm impressed, I would have never guessed you'd have that kind of accuracy with a smooth bore. Then again, I've never shot a smooth bore gun. They had good accuracy for the technology of the day. It would be interesting to see a side by side comparison of the two types of guns at 100 yards.

[@harrymills2770]

As one commenter noted, the cost of a rifle was higher, and so a lot of common folk couldn't afford them. Once a rifle was in the family it was passed down over the generations. Probably pretty hard to come by for a very long time.

[@daniho6223]

as an expert on youtube experts, my expertise is that the self-proclaimed expert who made this video is indeed an expert with an expertise as an expert.

[@papercartridges6705]

As a self proclaimed KZbin expert, I can verify from my experience, that you are indeed an expert on KZbin experts with great expertise.

[@richardrichards5982]

This is really good battlefield historical archaeology. My interest in smoothbores muskets is confined to the Napoleonic battles in Europe, where most firefights were around 75 to 150 metres. The accuracy of the Brown Bess and the French equivalent were good enough that there were few hand to hand melees in the Napoleonic wars. Outside of this, studies on the accuracy of historical weapons in battle conditions should also consider the human, environmental and logistical factors influencing the accuracy of weapons. The environmental factors include smoke, fog of war, sometimes rain and vegetation cover. The logistical factors include variations in the quality of weapons, powder and ball, and the lack of ammunition in some cases, lack of food and water for soldiers. The human factors include fatigue, the lack of training in some cases, and the lack of intent to kill in some situations. There is some historical studies that note not every soldier on the battlefield is ready to shoot accurately at an enemy for many reasons.

[@Strasburg57812]

My Friend you’re doing such great work!!! I can’t wait to buy your book!!

[@matteoorlandi856]

i had no problem gitting a gong at 50 meters the first (and only) time i shot a model 1842 replica from chiappa. since i'm a terrible shot, i don't see how a good shooter can miss with this thing. people seems to forget that the major cause of inaccuracy of muskets is the flintlock wich is not an easy thing to use. but the 1842 uses a percussion cap, basically it's a shotgun, and i know people that can shot round balls with 12 gauges with deadly accuracy at 100 meters...

[@kevinrussell1144]

I like this. You appear to be putting the paper in behind the shot and powder, ramming the charge, and using a percussion cap. Nice shooting. Always wanted to see our version of the Brown Bess test fired. AND I was not aware that many southerners carried muskets in the Civil War; I assumed virtually everyone carried a rifle. Thanks. Your smoothbore was more accurate than I would have guessed from my past reading. Don't assume you KNOW the facts when you don't. Check.

[@ryanrobertson8951]

Took me a minute to realize someone else was shooting at that other target. I thought that was one slow bullet.

[@josephvarno5623]

I dunno. A half inch hole sprouting in the body of your opponent makes his day substantially worse. As for the cesspit that is the comments section of any KZbinr that deigns to offer an opinion on a subject (Heck, Brandon F continues to get pushback on stating the fact that slavery is bad.), everyone is an expert(tm) and youze guys don't know what you are talking about. (end sarcasm) Thanks for the object lesson in the accuracy of that particular boomstick.

[@Gepedrglass]

Love the video. I feel like people tend to miss the forest for the trees on topics like this to prove themselves "correct" rather than contribute anything to the conversation.

[@MrBPC76]

The other thing to think about was that the strategy of the day was a whole line of these muskets shooting at another line of soldiers, so most of them were probably not aiming at an individual target but somewhere in the line. It goes back to the archers of medieval warfare where they weren't particularly aiming at individual knights and footmen, but instead trying to put the entire volley into the lines. Accuracy doesn't really need to be that much of a factor when there are 100+ rounds going in the same direction at the same time.

[@samcolt1079]

THEY WERE RIFLES NOT MUSKETS

[@redtra236]

I think that musket was loaded more aggressively in response to a youtube comment than it was in response to Abraham Lincoln lol

[@Chompchompyerded]

It's kinda funny how he shoots, there's a pause, then you hear the ball hit home. It sort of gives a little credence to Sitting Bull calling the .50 cals of the buffalo hunters "shoot today, kill tomorrow."

[@Dannysoutherner]

Something to consider if I may - if you have a large group of shooters elbow to elbow shooting at a similar sized group of enemies, as was often done in 1800s battles, the odds of getting a hit on someone are pretty good even if you aim between the two enemies. This is pretty much a large shotgun with all the pros and cons that go with one. My first gun at 6 or 7 was a smoothbore bb gun. I decimated the bird population in my town. I did just fine with a smoothbore. Todays Abrams tank is a smoothbore and it does fine.

[@veritasvincit2745]

I live in Lichfield, Staffordshire and during the English Civil War in the 1640s Royalist men held the cathedral. The Parliamentarians were gathered in Dam Street getting organised. A man called Brooke was giving the assembled men a pep talk. A musketeer in the central spire of the cathedral took a shot at Brooke, the parliamentarian man in charge there and hit him in the head killing him. Must've been a bit of a demoralising sight to his audience. This is a distance of what has to be 400-500 yards. Obviously not typical and the cathedral is much higher than Dam Street but shows what can be done I guess because I think it's fair to say that the shooter was aiming at him.

[@kennethswain6313]

That was very clever. I loved the can of lutifisk and wasn’t that a can of Prince Albert on the mantle I’m now a subscriber

[@Redbaron_sites]

You are using guano powder ,right ? No pyro Dex? If black powder you well proved the point ❤! Being from Tennessee and Mississippi, I am an odd man out , a Union Supporter. My two favorite Generals are George Thomas and Gen. Grant himself. Also consider Lincoln the best president in history. That being said , if you can spare the time to respond I would love to know the division or regiment your beautiful blue kepi represents. Is it an actual Pennsylvania? If you can't respond I understand, all have time limitations but I would love to find a copy of that hat and wear it Proudly to my next family reunion in Mississippi, the insignia is so fascinating! Loved the video ❤, love Penn Valley , have some very great friends in Pittsburgh too.

[@teutonalex]

The real game changer was loading speed. The Prussian needle gun firing infantry decimated the Austrian Jägers who where armed with muzzle loaders. This happened in 1866.

[@napke8571]

Excellent demonstration! This is what I like, real tests with real weapons, so the smoothbore was indeed far more accurate than a lot of people think. This was a test with only one person, imagine the real Civil War battles with complete battalions/regiments facing each other.....pure horror when salvo's where fired. Most American deaths ( Union + CSA + Civilians ) than all other USA wars combined so far. So yes, that d*mn smoothbore was deadly! I myself am from the Netherlands and do have great interest in this period of American history, my knowledge is more with the uniforms, ranks, insignia etc. Greetings from a crazy Dutchman :)

[@winstonwashington5454]

Great lesson and education. A lot we can learn from the past in breaking down incorrect notions of older technology. Another interesting video idea I'd like to see is using a ballistic dummy and the effects of a Minie ball on it.

[@kyled3660]

Well done Suh! Ah do say well done! Oh for Pete’s sake that was very well done don’tchaknow. I thoroughly enjoyed your intro and I thought you did a great job. Content was goodly too.

[@papercartridges6705]

Glad you enjoyed it. I’m still waiting for them to tell me when to go pick up my Oscar…

[@Lukiel666]

Nice video. I used to shoot black powder. Let me tell you it was a real crap shoot... trying to hit the 1000 yard gong on the side of the mountain. But we had 50 Yd targets for pistol and both 100 and 150 yard targets for rifle. One interesting thing I found was that black powder burns slower and you can tell the difference. it's more of a push than a sharp instant crack recoil.

[@redtra236]

Black powder has a very fast burn rate

[@Rex_Smashington]

My man shooting this long ass rifle standing unsupported at 100 yards. That alone is impressive.

[@caseykaelin9430]

Nothing like a demonstration to dispell any misconceptions.

[@jackaubrey8614]

Really interesting bit of experimental history there - well done and good shooting:)

[@uncletiggermclaren7592]

"Scarlet O'Hara here" *Pats anachronistically named musket*

[@reamrkj1125]

You know I'm really glad you are not salty about this at all.

[@mike03a3]

In all the comments there are frequent errors in terminology with regards to smooth vs rifled weapons. At the time of the Civil war there were four official designations for the long guns that came into use in the mid 1850s: 1: Musket - A long barreled, large caliber firearm with a smooth barrel. e.g. the .69 caliber M1842, with 41" barrel which lacked a rear sight. 2: Rifled Musket - A Musket that was later altered by rifling the barrel and adding a rear sight. Many M1842 were so modified. 3: Rifle-Musket - A long barreled firearm manufactured with a rifled barrel. Generally of a smaller caliber whose conical bullet had roughly the same mass as the larger musket balls. In the Civil War the most common US made one was the M1861 with a 40" .58 caliber barrel, a version of the original M1855 design with the Maynard primer system omitted. The most common imported one was the Pattern 1853 Enfield with a 39" .577 caliber barrel. 4: Rifle - Shorter barrel and generally smaller caliber. The third most common Civil War long gun was the Austrian Lorenz. A .54 caliber rifle with a 37.5" barrel. Two versions were imported, mostly the original 1854 version and some of the improved 1862 version. The US had the M1841 "Mississippi" rifle with a .54 caliber and 33" barrel. Originally intended for round ball, some of the Lorenz and M1841 both were rebored and rifled to use the .58 caliber ammunition. There were a number of other rifles, but most were phased out by the Union by the middle of the was as Springfield and 20 contractors were producing over a million Rifle-Muskets.

[@dhooter]

It's ALWAYS a cool breath of air to come across a KZbin video that isn't about AR's,AK's and 50 cals. Myself I prefer old guns. Being in my 40's I get my chops busted all the time about my "Fud Guns". Lol

[@robbrike4619]

This is a very well made video. I presume though that the musket rifles used during the Napoleonic era were less effective than the musket of 1842 for instance? I have read that in 1815 a musket was more or less on target at a distance of 80 yards maximum.

[@kensmith8152]

To quote Tuco: if you’re going to shoot, shoot, don’t talk!

[@rodrigoroaduterte9415]

Every time someone tells you that smooth bore were inaccurate say this: “Oh, what a coincidence! I have a smooth bore right now and a shooting range nearby. Will you come and represent a target for me to prove your words?”

[@Thewildterritories]

I only ever came across this accent while rooming with Uppers while going to college in northern Wisconsin. I grew up in Minnesota and have lived in Illinois for over 20 years now.

[@hakanaxlund4316]

Great video. Love the reference to “lutefisk”. I’m swedish and it’s right about time for lutfisk in Sweden (traditional food coarse on Christmas eve). Thank you. 😅

[@Victoria-gc6jq]

Todd been really quiet since this dropped

[@rickybobbyinc293]

I had no idea THIS is what I was about to see. But I like it!

[@fhbaynes]

Todd is an excellent example of a KZbin troll who doesn’t have the intellect or decency to express himself diplomatically.

[@papercartridges6705]

We love Todd because his comment let me make my most-viewed video. Todd is the best!

[@mattdarcy6975]

Plenty of them on utube

[@daletrecartin1563]

They may be unknowingly confusing Napoleonic volley fire where there was little to no effort to aim, one merely levelled one's piece and fired on command and that was often into a smokescreen, with deliberate aimed fire.

[@Uhlan_]

Doing living history for 40ish years, I've often had to deal with some Hitler-Channel historian in the crowd going on about rifles, smoothbores, Napoleonic tactics, and other myths. I think these folks think of the Brown Bess when they think of smoothbores, and assume all of them were a .69 ball in a .75 barrel, bouncing it's way to who knows where. American muskets, derived from the French Charleville, had far less windage (space between the ball and the barrel) than the Bess. The shortcomings of the muskets of the Civil War lay more in the lack of training of the man firing the weapon than the weapon itself, including the average Confederate.

[@thefreese1]

I watched the guy with a .50 flintlock win 3 events at the rendezvous. At the 25-yard Target with a half-inch bullseye he put that bullet right in the center of that bullseye which was also a half-inch so it look like somebody took a paper punch to it. Then, he won the event with the string where you had to cut the string with a bullet. And turned around and got a win where you split the bullet on an axe head and break both of the clay pigeons on each side. He did not win the 200 yard gong event . But you made it through the first and second round. And all the time he was shooting against rifled barrel long guns. That 25-yard Target what was the most impressive thing I've ever seen. I don't know what gun it was but it look like a brown Bess it just had a smaller bore

[@drsch]

Great video, but I'm curious why the Confederates were fighting an Irish guy from Calgary eating lutefisk?

[@JamesJohnson-vy6ji]

Our shooting club can clear the targets at 100 meters in a very short time wit smooth bore muskets, and if you add rifling the range would be twice the distance black powder works quite nicely

[@laketaylora]

Many years ago I remember reading an article about the Mexican-American war that included a written quote from a then Lieutenant U.S. Grant about the accuracy of smoothbore muskets. He was unimpressed. I don't remember his exact words, but it was to the effect of, "A man can shoot at you all day long from a distance of 100 yards without you being aware of it." I've searched online for that quote but can't find it. Nor do I recall if he was talking about a particular kind of musket being used in the 1840s that was worse than the ones used in the Civil War. I suspect he was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but there it is. There's no doubt that a smoothbore could hit a man at 100 yards. The question is whether the man you hit would be the one you were aiming at, if you were aiming at anyone in particular instead of just pointing the muzzle at the mass of the enemy, which is what I suspect most soldiers would do in the heat of battle.

[@chrishoff402]

What were those famous last words of that civil war general to a private soldier taking cover. Something about "they can't hit anything from he..."

[@doctheperfectfaceforradio6022]

I enjoyed your video and I am very envious that you got to shoot an 1842 Smoothbore Musket. If I had been able to fire that weapon, I would have been out there all day. You wouldn't have got me off the range easily.

[@MrCTozer]

Great video - what a shame that some person decided to use foul language and generally act unpleasantly to prompt the making of this video though. Wouldn’t it be nice if people could actually disagree with someone on the internet without bad behaviour (sigh). Anyway, we got a great video out of it as a result. Thanks for making it.

[@cjinasia9266]

Considering the military tactics of the time, you are shooting at a target 5' high x 50' wide. It is not about hitting a particular opponent it is about hitting any of them. For sniper work a rifle has a clear advantage but not for massed troops.

[@Sketch_Sesh]

I like how you called out those comments 😂and put it to the test

[@dylanbraamse8365]

paper cartridges can you turn a musket into a combination of a double barrel side by side one and a muzzle of a single barrel blunderbuss like in the movie free birds and also can you turn a two eyed person into a one-eyed person too?

[@huckleberry_spice1653]

Todd’s been real quiet since this dropped

[@Scootertin]

Tom’s real quiet ever since this video came out

[@Shinbusan]

awesome test! Although as in modern guns, in stress, under fire, it is much less effective. But still, someone dedicated and calm...

[@brunswicklord6365]

I am an enthusiast of the horse and musket period, in particular the post napoleonic wars in Europe and the ACW. I saw Red Badge of Courage as a boy and the civil war as been such a joy to study and wargame over the years. I am British and have never held a rifle or smooth bore let alone fire one. I am allowed to look at them behind a glass case ! With a lot of trouble and hoops to jump through I think it could be possible. Cherish your right to have a hands on experience in studying these fascinating historical artifacts.

[@papercartridges6705]

I have many friends in the UK who shoot black powder muskets and rifles. Your first step is to find a shooting range club. They can help you with the paperwork and the process.

[@redtra236]

You can definitely get a license to own a smoothbore musket or rifle-musket in the UK unless you have disqualifying crimes on your record