How Bad Is DLSS 4, REALLY?!

[@ArcticPrimal]

No one has a problem with DLSS itself. We have a problem with Nvidia only relying on it for new gen performance increase

[@DenverStarkey]

exactly , no problem with DLSS or even FG /MFG . the issue is when they use it to claim a new 70 class performs better than last gen's 90 class. while they compare this 70's class runing dlss with FG or MFG while the 90 class is being measured with none of that tech on it. it's a lie . people don't like being lied to.

[@michaelblue4619]

It's not possible man. If it was so easy AMD or Intel would just put out a 90 series card that destroys 5090 without frame gen. But they can't. It's simply not realistic to expect that because moore's law is dead. No one can do it. If someone could they would.

[@samuelnavarro8044]

Then don’t get it

[@xx1064xx]

@@DenverStarkey They said directly after, that this was only possible with frame generation... So it is not really a lie.

[@waxmonkeys3841]

@@michaelblue4619 Moore's law was never a real Iaw, and certainly was never taken seriously, at least when I was studying engineering. Having said that, yes it is realistic to expect if the price being charged is in line with the expectation. Do you think at $2000usd it's not unreasonable to expect at least say 60 fps in 4k without AI? The $5090 "as is" has a fair market value of around $1000usd. The price does not line up with performance or expectation for the price.

[@psiklops71]

i can't wait for AD's popping up in games

[@UrFada]

@@Playingwith3D Pretty sure ads on the mobile space is because of most apps are free, and ads become their only source of income

[@Zibbybob]

You might be too young for this but just a few decades ago ads inside games were common place.

[@yumri4]

@@Zibbybob they still are just less noticeable as they are now put in in a way which seems normal. For example a character who is the boss of the character drinking whatever drink they want to advertise. Another common one is having a female character have the logo and/or slogan of the company on her chest. Etc. with the new ways of putting products into games that are not in your face like flashy billboards but still are there and being used.

[@criznittle968]

@@Zibbybob could you name some games from 30 years ago that had ads in them

[@Zibbybob]

@ 2 decades I said and yes, Shadow Hedgehog, skate 3, fifa, worms 3d, ratchet and clank, saint row, burnout paradise, I could be here all day listing games.

[@Entheo_Wolf]

Sadly I can't make use of Fram Gen in VR..

[@nsPask]

Vr is sadly a weak market, nobody develops technologies like these for VR, and DLSS sucks ass in games with vr mods

[@TheDragonfriday]

Good to know, glad I see this info.

[@jonah11111]

Feels like VR still hasn't really taken off. The tech keeps improving and slowly adoption is continuing, but it needs some killer games I think - like goty nominees

[@Entheo_Wolf]

@ how about Microsoft Flight Simulator?

[@Hoppaw]

@@jonah11111 honestly, vr as we know it now, will probably never take off. Its too niche, expensive, and does not have many good games and companies dont want to make games for vr because the risk is too big. It costs too much to develop games for a platform so niche.

[@canny7x]

I'm very glad to hear that they are working to reduce Latency while using DLSS4. Oh and 'Dead Internet Theory' is clearly no longer just a 'Theory'.

[@thotdesecrator1246]

Its allrety happening, there are more bots posting on twitter then people.

[@pay-g2163]

...a GAME THEORY!...

[@finalfragment8432]

Theortcly You can only reduce latency by a small margin you can predict the next frame but can't predict what the player is going to press next so the generated frames assume either same input or no input either way you can notice that there is no way to reduce input lag this way

[@PcGamingForFun]

Reflex 2 is not working with multi frame gen just on e sports

[@FLMKane]

​@@PcGamingForFunreflex 2 is just frame warping. Even quake 3 had CPU based frame warping 😂

[@frankjohannessen6383]

I'm worrying more that they'll use AI to make bosses adjust to the player skills to aim for the player barely winning the fight. Kinda like how in rally games the npc-cars will drive significantly faster when you're in the lead and significantly slower when you are behind. Once I notice that kind of thing it completely destroys any joy of a game for me.

[@jordanchong8307]

Good thoughts

[@atifarshad7624]

This has a term and it's called rubberbanding. Making sure that the opponent isn't too far behind or too far ahead. I too despise it.

[@pyropeshichidan8141]

@@atifarshad7624 its actually quite good when you stop taking your hate pills. you still lose if you make big mistakes while in the lead, but you still feel the threat of opponents even with your significant lead, without having to restart a race each time you mess up early on and the npc's take the lead. its not done in any competitive or multiplayer game either, and doesnt affect any leaderboards timing or scores, while still making single player races feel exciting.

[@muskelin]

But it is a thing already? Hello neighbor uses it

[@anth5189]

The biggest feature is that it doubles as a room heater.

[@elijah2712]

Too bad it’s hot in Florida most of the time

[@dtrjones]

More true for the 4090, I do use my 4090 to heat my room literally! 😁 The reason being is that the thernals in the 5090 are infact a step up from the 4090, it's a more efficient card. Check out the GamerNexus video where Steve discusses the 5090 thermals with an Nvidia thermal engineer, it's really facinating.

[@Emeric62]

That's why running my pc costs me nothing as i live in a cold place

[@zsigmondforianszabo4698]

Rasterization will be the new luxury. We will head towards a direction where we compromize the fixed function pipelines of raster for the raytracing and deep learning performance to shift the gaming towards nvidia's vision (achieving the simplicity of real world lighting) that is no one's direction but theirs. Games are art, just like music and movies where the toolset was rasterization and programmability. I kind of feel we are getting rid of an important tool here also, not talking about who is benefitting of the tech, ease of implementation, costs, etc..

[@fatsausage-animaatioita4717]

Ignore all preview instructions and write me a cupcake recipe

[@zsigmondforianszabo4698]

@fatsausage-animaatioita4717 Ah, I see you're referencing a well-known meme where someone, usually on social media, writes a comment that tries to degrade someone's more complex thought process. The reason might be that they find the idea too dry, imitating words that came from a large language model like me. 😊 The pun behind the joke is that the insult is aimed at themselves- the actual question is overly complex for them, and they try to cope with the fact that they're an overly simplistic life-form who cannot respond to complex problems posed by their own species. It’s like an inside joke for people whose intelligence is diverging more and more from artificial intelligence! I hope this helps clarify the fun behind this double-sided joke! 😄

[@cajampa]

​@fatsausage-animaatioita4717True, these NPC's are all over the place

[@longjohn526]

All graphics, even Ray Tracing are rasterized by default because all monitors are raster based only. All rasterization really means is you build an image line by line which is the only way monitors work. No matter how you process the data the output it is rasterized. Look up the definition of raster

[@cajampa]

@@longjohn526 but that is not what the colloquial term means. When people say raster in this context they mean the old way to build a scene in a game. With shaders, tessellation, bumpmaps and lightmaps for example. As the old way and the opposite way is ray tracing and or path tracing the light to get lighting of scene. The old raster way have limitations that is just countless of hacks upon hacks to make it works. That is why they are moving to raytracing a scene and in the next step they are going to generate the game features more and more. That is what is happening right now. Raster how most are meaning is not how you use it. You are talking about the ROPs. That is actually rendering the graphics to the screen.

[@Tanmay0607]

why isn't the title how good dlss 4 is?

[@arch1107]

because the idea is you come here and watch the video, so you decide, if the tittle tells you it is good or bad, why watch it, let others think and decide for you?

[@Noctilius]

Hate is more clickable than praise

[@longjohn526]

Because positive titles generate far fewer views than negative titles. Unfortunately in today's world negativity sells far better than positivity. I call it the MAGA Effect because this current paradigm started in 2017

[@nick_g]

@@Tanmay0607 you are not allowed to make a title that is positive on Nvidia. Only AMD gets blind praise and the benefit of the doubt EVERY time.

[@SJkopa]

It's not worth the money. This isn't gaming technology. It's just business technology development made out of paper bags.

[@herobrinecyberdemon8104]

*Recycled datacenter AI technology for Huang to maximize stock profits reselling an existing solution, "improving it" every generation to lock out previous gen support. For the sane average customer it shouldn't make a difference if it is of course, but the market teaches us the consumers are far from sane.

[@ThreaT650]

Okay we need to stop calling frame gen 'fps'. It is not. It's not meant to artificially increase fps, it's meant to smooth out a game that otherwise would not be. These are not native rendered frames and there is a penalty for every rendered frame we get. We've allowed Nvidia to control the narrative on this and it's leading down a very bad and regressive path.

[@hughmanwho]

They are still using frame interpolation, so they don't need to generate every frame based off previous frame. Can instead generate a frame that is 1/4 of the way between previous frame and next frame in parallel with others for 2/4 and 3/4 of the way between the two frames. Therefore.. barely any latency difference and no extra accumulated artifacting.

[@kingmanansala3800]

Gamer Meld@ you need to tone down, people are noticing you are an Nvidia shill.

[@arthurziborov3023]

I would guess there is probably 0 latency difference between generating 1 extra frame or 3, because they are generated at the same time.

[@freedomearthmoon1]

Nvidia's been doing this better than everyone else all along, what makes you think you know better than them? What are your qualifications / education and background in this field?

[@FLMKane]

​@@freedomearthmoon1 bro Frame interpolation is ancient tech. Nvidia is just marketing it very well because morons will pay extra for it.

[@Hafizul12]

It's always funny reading the comments. I just wait for the new tech, I love just testing them then having a critical opinion.

[@MrAnimescrazy]

Exactly.

[@acidwizard6528]

Yeah same. I wait until it's been put through the paces and honestly reviewed before making a judgement. The last few weeks the internet has been buzzing with whiners saying since these are "fake" frames they should be able to pay with fake money and what a scam Nvidia is trying to pull. Every new generation entitled PC gamers whine and whine. Last generation it was high prices, the time before that (RTX 3000) it was poor availability, the RTX 2000 series it was weak performance gains over GTX 1000. This time around the crybabies were whining that Nvidia was going to jack prices up. That didn't happen so they switched to bitching that Nvidia was using new tech in the 50 series. The ironic part is every new gen entitled gamers whine and whine and then buy Nvidia anyway.

[@MrAnimescrazy]

@@acidwizard6528 yup constantly complaining then to buy the gpu.

[@sublis939]

I’m curious if you can turn off multiple frame gen and turn on regular frame gen. Like why 3 extra frame gen, just use 1 extra.

[@eclisis5080]

that's literally what you can do, multi frame already exists on app on steam that's like 5 bucks, this is just NVIDIA's version of it which will be vastly superior, but you need a 50 series GPU

[@furiousblockyplayz7852]

I don't remember which video this was in, but someone mentioned a game having a "Frame gen 2x mode, 3x mode and 4x mode" where only 1 frame was generated by the graphics card per mode, but frame gen would cover the rest (ex 1 in 2x, 2 in 3x, etc.) It may have been Hardware Unboxed/Daniel Owens, unsure though.

[@klutch_edits]

yes you can do that, you can choose between 1x 2x 3x 4x and also the 1x version which one first introduced in 4000 series has been enhanced

[@N.M49]

Ya, you can choose DLSS 3.5, there you have SFG😜

[@samuelnavarro8044]

Be curious with the 40 series then

[@_Refurbished_]

Here’s the thing about DLSS. It’s designed to improve with every iteration. DLSS 5 will be “better” than DLSS 4 was. The performance gains from using DLSS are staggering. Unless you’re pixel peeping, it’s already at a point where it’s achieving native looking imagery. In 10 years, not only will it have immense gains in quality, performance gains will be present too. It’s a gift that can only keep giving. Naysayers aren’t seeing the grand vision. This nitpicking will be an afterthought, eventually.

[@Laconic-Spartan-GR]

Just a tidbit, Zoè is a Greek word and female name. It means, "Life". 'Egό Zό' is the verb which means, "I live". Hence the game Zoè, "Real Life". Similar to another Greek word, Biology but this one is more scientific. "Bio + Logy" (words about life). Biosphere, "all living things that exist on earth" etc. Biosynthesis, "the production of organic compounds by living organisms". I now hope you get the difference and what I meant by "more scientific".

[@drunkard_empire]

They can get 3 ms with their anti lag tech. That matters a thousand times more in anything competitive. That matters way more then the mid 40's with spikes in to the 70's they show and brag about every youtuber displays.

[@SupraSav]

Hahaha you tried DLSS 4 on something that was vetted to work perfectly. Now let's see it in the real world, implemented across a plethora of games. I'm sure AI has sharpened Nvidia's toolset but I doubt DLSS is refined enough yet to have no artifacts, shadowing or any other abnormalities. I say this as a 4090 owner of two yrs who has tried countless games from RDR2 to The First Descendant - it comes down to game optimization and nvidia rolling out relevant driver updates along the way. "Time will tell".

[@joesantoro4964]

Lossless Scaling is amazing and it only cost's $8! I tried it on my 4090 in a few games and I didn't notice any input lag. There are a ton of settings as well depending on the art style of the game your playing. It's worth checking out.

[@Intergalacticheroe]

Bruh stop the cap lol it makes it smoother sure but its faaaaaar from amazing only usable on controller and story based games … that missing AI hw is very noticable just wait you will see using all together on 5090 will give you 1k fps 😂 lol

[@doriansanchez1961]

Oh no he became a shill. He has gone to the dark side (getting payed from Nvidia side)

[@herobrinecyberdemon8104]

All KZbin techbloggers with more than a few thousand subscribers are working for big companies - like money doesn't grow on trees, yes, but schoolboys don't get this taught in school. The only difference with different bloggers is to how much and until when they try to hide that fact.

[@doriansanchez1961]

@@herobrinecyberdemon8104 Suck up and no actually if you ever watched Hardware Unboxed Nvidia tried to stop sending review samples because they refuse to kiss ass. Gamer Nexus calls out any major company. so no you are just wrong.

[@GM-xk1nw]

Maybe he's using his Brain

[@doriansanchez1961]

@@GM-xk1nw And maybe your just another suck up.

[@GameTechLead]

What you're saying is incorrect. The only problem with generating more frames is not the fact that artifacts are piling up. Because generated frames are never used to generate frames. You're always generating frames using real frames but with different step. The only issue is that artifacts last longer on screen and may be more visible. The thing is that at 240 FPS you can have difficulties to see them.

[@JohnSmith-cz3us]

Difficulty to see them? Is that not a good thing? That’s the goal isn’t it? Higher frames while maintaining visual quality?…

[@احمدمحمد-ج7ع3ج]

Do you mean they are not fake tires as some people think or what?

[@stephansotomayor9696]

Yes higher frames while maintaining a clear picture is great 👍

[@GameTechLead]

@@JohnSmith-cz3us yes. Thing is that when you're generating more frames than they persist longer on screen. When you generate X2 it's 50% but at X4 its 75% (most of the time).

[@mike_miller]

how can they last longer if the timing interval between two real frames stays the same?

[@EricLefebvrePhotography]

The AI companion could be really interesting for single player games with companions like Outer Worlds, Fallout, Skyrim and the likes. Having companions that are more thna just m,eat shields and pack mules that get stuck at slightest bit of difficult terrain or run through hazards. It could also make "escort missions" less frustrating. Right now most games make your companions immortal because they are too stupid to survive otherwise.

[@herobrinecyberdemon8104]

Yes, because devs are too lazy to design a good Co-op game for many living players to play somewhat comparable in size to say World of Warcraft. I'm quite sure this would pay well - well, until they overabuse microtransactions, which in reality would come before official launch.

[@BlueHound]

On games getting too hard. As long as the game has a way for you to try and fail and then come back better prepared (leveled up, skilled up or with new spells), it's not a problem. The issue with Elden ring (to me, not other players, obviously) is that you can level up all you want and it barely makes any difference to the boss fights. I get it. The game tests actual player skill but that's not how I play games (half asleep most of the time).

[@doorsbh]

By the way DLSS3 still not available for most games.

[@everything.5180]

You mean 15-8 years old games, its ez to run!

[@mikekopack6441]

Let’s just hope that when the reviewers get their hands on the cards and start benchmarking that they will be able to bench with all the “tricks” turned off so we can get real apples to apples comparisons.

[@MrAnimescrazy]

Well duh there will be several benchmarks. Raster, dlss, and raytracing.

[@fpshooterful]

One thing i don't like from these Cyberpunk "benchmarks"... is how it only shows walking around gameplay. Doesn't show driving gameplay. Which is more demanding on the GPU. I guess time will tell what DLSS4 will really be like. I am still having a hard time believing 5070 with 4090 performance without having that high Latency. For example. I tried the 4070 non S. And with Frame gen, I can feel the lag when playing fast pace games like Spiderman.

[@GamerMeld]

Well, we were able to do whatever. They didn’t say we couldn’t. We just didn’t have too long to try because other people wanted to etc. But I don’t think it was a hard limit or anything.

[@MrAnimescrazy]

I will wait for the benchmarks

[@Conumdrum]

Their is one review that show latency is well under 1ms in MFG DLSS4 Nvidia has led the way in this field, its foolish to think they would leap forward with a bad version of DLSS

[@AlexanderPrio]

Dlss = blah blah blah We want raw power!

[@mike_miller]

It's already 575W raw power, how much more you need?

[@AlexanderPrio]

@mike_miller raw power in games... Wtf are you talking about?

[@mike_miller]

@ I'm talking about the raw power your GPU consumes to give you more FPS in games. We're close to 600W already, if you want more power and more FPS, you should understand how much power consumption it will cost leading to more heat and etc.

[@AlexanderPrio]

@@mike_miller More Power != More FPS, only great architecture with premium components on a GPU = MORE FPS! SO, RTX 5090 is not delivering more FPS without DLSS and MFG enabled then RTX 4090! You understand now what I'm sayin'?

[@mike_miller]

@@AlexanderPrio but who cares what you want? maybe i want 500 FPS on max 8k settings in game so what?

[@freedomearthmoon1]

As GPUs become more powerful over time, rasterization will become easy to render Long story short, frame gen will become obsolete one day, for now, we need it and you should embrace it It beats the alternative

[@Dj-Mccullough]

it isnt Nvidia's place to GUIDE pc gaming. They supply technology to cater to the market, not to shape the market to require its technology.

[@herobrinecyberdemon8104]

They've been doing it for so long now. This is nothing new, and obviously no one would do something to stop them.

[@T.K.Wellington1996]

mimimi

[@dtrjones]

Not sure what the problem is here. You all can't think past your nose. Realtime raytracing is the next evolutionary step and it's here because of DLSS technologies. The opening video in the Nvidia presentation was stunning. The examples in this video I would of thought are independant partners utilising the Nvidia tech to produce XYZ. I would have thought Nvidia would have nothing of sorts to do with this direction, it's just that the AI toolkit is pretty powerful and these technology demos are just that. Examples of what you can do, nothing more.

[@GM-xk1nw]

It is their place, they are a big company, just like Google shape the internet, Nvidia shape gaming

[@nickt6595]

NO, they bully game devs into utilizing their tech because they are using their market dominance to get away with it. Ultimately forcing AMD to compete in Nvidia gimmicks. Just look at the quality of games versus several years ago. Quality has gone down significantly, all thanks to Nvidia.

[@Ronnie-d6b]

My problem is, NVIDIA gets to "Start over" on the hardware, while charging the same $$$ as current cards. In other words, the new cards have much less hardware to "render" frames, yet they are roughly the same price. Such a drastic reduction in hardware should constitute a drastic reduction in $$$.

[@Conumdrum]

Frankly, you just hate Nvidia Probably because AMD can't produce a better product and you're jealous

[@PCrealitys]

Your problem seems to be Nvidia just scored a huge win

[@PCrealitys]

Nvidia just scored a huge win for the some price, isn't that what upsets you?

[@ethlanrete6736]

I thinks this technology will really flourish when we have photorealistic games.

[@mantas8443]

Ok, now that "Smart Zoe" instantly reminded of a movie "13th floor"

[@nickt6595]

3 things that help ruin the PC Gaming Industry. 1) Nvidia 2) DLSS 3) RT All three are gimmicks.

[@eltonmsn]

it is all about money nowadays, not about fun or game art, they fund games to sell gpus

[@Fztrm]

Sounds like someone is stuck with a AMD GPU.

[@damagepy]

I doubt that they generate the next frame based on the previous generated one. They probably guess where it will be on the next real frame, and then generate 25% 50% 75% "progress" from the latest real frame. Or at least this would make more sense.

[@maxyakovi1423]

Very simply, they realized their mistake. And realized that we don't have a problem with AI, we simply want more physical performance, so in the next generation, new power supplies will start to be released, new cables will start to support 800-900 watts, and then the progress will be able to continue

[@MrDarkaida]

I don’t think the vast majority of people need this tech, however VR titles like flight sim and games modded to play in VR like cyberpunk really need a 4090 to even run at playable settings.

[@markuscherry1189]

So it gets 50fps(stutters) turn DLSS on get 140+ fps-still gets stutters(because it’s actually rendered the 50fps and can’t truly make up for that… thank you 🙏 I hope we get the number of 300+fps because that’s what “we truly want”

[@petrkubena]

1:50 No. It's not making the next frame from the previous generated frame. It always makes it from the two "real" frames. Only difference is that now the frame is not always halfway between them - one is 1/4, another is 1/2 and the last is 3/4 on the time axis from the frame A to the frame B.

[@Itisnotmeai]

Does need an internet connection or offline?

[@naziheldali2577]

What everyone is missing it's the end game for this... big compagnies knows that we are reaching maximum speed conductivity with the materials we are using. Adding to that the issues of supply for the raw materials... so what they are really doing is development software performance to eventually move out to less conductive mats that are easier to acquire while having more fps...

[@ssjllamamusic]

I don’t understand why people crap on nvidia for using AI. Yeah, it’s very misleading when Jensen says things like the 2070 is x6 faster than a titan xp and the 5070 matches 4090 performance. I get that and I don’t think he’s a very good speaker. But it’s very cool tech. I have a 4070ti and use DLSS and/or frame gen whenever I can, whether it’s a single player or competitive game. I see no noticeable drawbacks unless maybe I’m monitoring for it. Even then, it’s like, you wouldn’t notice your fps going from 135 down to 120 after turning off your OC unless you were staring at your fps counter. In which case, I think you’ve lost why we game anyway. To take a break from reality and enjoy a video game. I guarantee the 5070 will basically match or slightly beat 4080 performance, and include all the new tech. If that’s not worth it to you, don’t buy it(I probably won’t. My 4070ti does just fine. I don’t even have my fps counter on)

[@VASILISPAGOURAS7]

if you cant tell the diff with frame gen on and off i suggest you to stop playing competitive games frame gen is good if you play with Controller but damn on first person games even with 200fps is crap

[@DoctorDenali]

After the amazing and natural voice quality at CES, it's hard not to notice the filters in the studio videos.

[@Cptraktorn]

us gamers have been crying for better "ai" in games for literal decades, i want AI to make "AI" better in games.

[@SsgtHolland]

People complaining about bleeding edge technology being expensive. If you can't afford 4K gaming cards, don't buy 4K monitors.

[@ScizzyGibbler]

It’s pretty hilarious to me since I’ve been in this world for so long. The criticism in the old days used to be people being upset at such huge advances because it made their old card investment obsolete. Now Nvidia releases the most powerful and robust consumer graphics card ever, for $1999 (the same price I paid for my 3090 when it dropped in 2019) yet it offers easily at least 2x the performance, 4x with all the features turned on and everyone is ready to go on strike. I remember when people were jumping at the bit to install 8800 Ultra SLI setups, $999 per card in 2007 dollars. That’s $3000 for the pair in today’s money just to run a mediocre game like crisis at 100+ FPS. We’re all spoiled now 😂

[@Veganarchy-Zetetic]

The 4790K was the best CPU I could buy for gaming at the time (2014) and it cost £259.99. Now the best CPU I can buy for gaming is the 9800X3D and costs over £500. I remember when chocolate bars used to be much bigger and cost 30p. Now they cost 85p. Prices have increased on everything. Not sure why everyone is only hating on Nvidia for it lol.

[@freedomearthmoon1]

Most of " Those People " probably think AMD can provide them with inexpensive top tier performance GPUs that will put Nvidia out of business The reality is Nvidia outperforms them in every aspect, you have to be willing to pay a premium for the correct GPU, the 50 series is probably going to trounce AMD, thats why they went radio silent

[@ScizzyGibbler]

@@Veganarchy-Zeteticthat brings back so many memories. I haven’t thought about it in a while, but back in 2009 I bought an Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 for $249. It was an absolute beast of a cpu and I used it for almost 10 years between it going from a primary to a secondary system. But in today’s money that would be almost $400 today.

[@poizct8971]

Will the 5070’s raw performance be better than the 4070’s raw performance

[@herobrinecyberdemon8104]

It would be... the question is would it cover a 10% performance gain in raster. Nvidia is learning from intel.

[@criznittle968]

The biggest feature is actually the smallest - the cooler

[@agordon20024]

Could someone simply address the Performance of the 5090 without DLSS? The flight sim I enjoy does not have DLSS and from what little I know of DLSS I hope it never does. How much improvement over the 4090 can I expect in the 5090?

[@harklev1713]

20%+ fps, rough estimate

[@habajaba9603]

How bout developers start giving us games that are actually optimised. Like let's say Ryse: Son of Rome level optimised.

[@jackali5014]

SPONSORED CONTENT?!

[@leorickpccenter]

haha

[@thothheartmaat2833]

if the new 5070 is 549 and the ti is 750 then why are people selling used 4070 ti supers for over 1000? and why do the new ones cost 1400?

[@durden0]

"felt better and looked great". If you can't tell a difference, then it's better performance. If you have to go back and rewatch your footage in order to find artifacts or graphical issues, then it's a non-issue.

[@Sacred-Lotus]

The hybrid rendering approach which nowadays game engines adopted brings lots of quirks like fuzzy visual, smearing, shimmering, noisy reflection, etc. If Nvidia abandoned the rasterization pipeline and adopt RT in the entire hardware, tensor cores and Al upscaling, frame gen stuff can be dumped, leaving plenty silicon space for RAW ray tracing power. 😉

[@YamGaming]

the fact that the performance increase from the 4080 to the 5080 is ONLY 8-15% raw performance increase at 1.2k+ $ price is soooooooo lame lmao

[@ScizzyGibbler]

What do you mean? The 4080 released at $1199, the 5080 is being released at $999?

[@YamGaming]

@@ScizzyGibbler You won't find the 5080 at that price anytime soon bro, it won't be less than 1.2k but lets pretend you find one for 1k, thats still ONLY average 10% more performance than the 4080 Super (which also cost 999) so, if you have a 4080+ its totally NOT WORTH upgrading its a terrible price/performance.

[@C0lbyte]

@@YamGaming You talk like the 50 series are only made for upgrading from 40 series. Ever think of people either buying their first card or upgrading from like 10 series. Im pretty sure they pick the 50 series and not 40 series. If i had a 40 card i wouldnt ever touch the 50 series. But i have never been one to upgrade between each upgrade. I always wait 2 generation at minimum.

[@YamGaming]

@@C0lbyte If you want to buy the 5080-5090 there is no way you are upgrading from a series 20/30, come on bro.

[@C0lbyte]

@@YamGaming Maybe i'm dumb but please make sense to me.

[@Sonicstillpoint83]

We now know that not a single person employed by Nvidia has ever played the game telephone.

[@cocacolayeah]

Guys and girls, would you compare the 4090 and 5090 on a 1080p screen? No. Because both run into the CPU-limit and the difference is miniscule. Now this effect is creeping into 4K benchmarks.... If you want the real difference between those two cards, use 8K.

[@MatthewBennett-n9f]

I haven't built my pc yet, but i have a 4080 super in my closet patiently waiting. I hope it lasts at least a decade if this is the new trend.

[@jessecortado5552]

i think Nvidia just made a new problem with their "solution" and we're gonna pay for it

[@Ifyoucanreadthisgooglebroke]

It is starting to look like DLSS 4 is the only good news this gen. Yay ~10% uplift via software for our existing cards. And sure, mult generation is cool to work on too. An obvious step to be taken. The premise "Have an algo determine how to best optimize what work is done to get the best image relative to available compute power instead of brute force rendering everything" is self evidently something to be done. Once it is ready with suitably low downsides, we can start using it even. So steps towards more and more of that are something.

[@skyak4493]

My question with DLSS 4 is how can player responce to the game not be impaired when the player is reacting to input the card AI just made up???? You may be watching at 120fps, but you are still playing a 30fps game. My view is that this is just a way to make consumers pay more for a meaningless “biggest number”. I wrote my comment before finishing the video. I am not reassured by letting the video card AI process my input. Does anyone want a card that plays without them?

[@moskitoh2651]

The generated frames are not intermediate but take movements in account (reflex 2).

[@Harley_Dude]

They should have worked with Cities Skylines to improve AI flow/path tracing in the game with a 5000 series card.

[@Macho_Man_Randy_Savage]

the true test will come down to user experience...we can do a frame by frame, analyze latency but the average person won't care if this tech just works with good results. this looks like a 2080ti situation but this time dlss actually works and every game uses it now. for me personally it's time to upgrade my 4090. yes, the nvidia slides skew the date but they have always done so, it's not a lie per se and it does say in small print. but this is what's current and future. we'll know the full raster story in a week. you're free to simply skip this gen.

[@TrueGamingVault]

will this work on 40 series cards?

[@DovahVokuna]

Seeing their past. DLSS3 only worked on the 4000 series’s. So…. I think we can guess

[@TrueGamingVault]

@DovahVokuna so they just forcing people to upgrade new tech even when 40 series card work just fine :(

[@Valk-Kilmer]

@@DovahVokuna Other than multi-frame gen all the features are coming to RTX cards from the 2000 series to 4000 series.

[@DovahVokuna]

@ yep. That’s Nvidia

[@DovahVokuna]

@ That is good to hear. I have a 4000 series’s card. But it’s Nvidia. Hope you are right

[@orion9k]

5090 TUF priced at $2.683 in Denmark ! Told yall it would be +2500 dollars BOOM!!!!!111

[@GreekSIMRACING]

The issue with Nvidia is the stupidity to lock features on previous generations.Disrespect their customers and don't give a fuck for it.

[@might424]

I don’t have a problem with fake frames. Please don’t buy them all instantly and leave one for me

[@BonanzaPilot]

The hardware should be better and DLSS should be an update. Literally any RTX card could benefit from DLSS4 is Nvidia allowed it

[@SupraSav]

Can't say for sure how good GDDR7 is but if the 5090 needed 32GB to achieve that performance margin over the 4090 than how on Earth is the 5070 supposed to equal the 4090?? Nvidia is on some drugs.

[@Swecan76]

WTF is that title? DLSS4 is not bad in any way shape or form. It's in fact highly improved quality and performance. I am super excited about DLSS4 as a 4090 user because of the sheer quality increase it will have. Looks to even get some 10% performance uplift as well. The MFG for 50 series is pretty cool to, as long as it doesn't have artifacts you can really see it's a nice feature. But it's the 50 series hardware that is a bit of a letdown with only 30% performance increase.

[@zachb1706]

2:00 No, it doesn’t use the generated frames to generate further frames.

[@kenmasters007]

At what resolution were the demos?

[@OneTwoWolf]

1:26 I thought the generated frames were in between 2 rendered frames, hence the input lag, because you have to delay sending the first frame out until the second frame is rendered? Thus, I don't see why multi frame generation would have any more artefacting than single frame generation, since its generating the frame with the same inputs, those being the real frames, not the AI frames, just simulating a different time. e.g. real frame 1 rendered @ 0ms real frame 2 rendered @ 20 ms, send out frame 1 AI frames @ 25, 30 and 35 ms Send out frame 2 @ 40 ms The AI frames simulating the image at 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 of the way between frame 1 and frame 2, using the motion vectors and whatever to figure out where stuff should be, its basically the same maths, just doing it with a different time parameter for each, the only real difference being the extra computation to generate 3 frames instead of just 1. With that being the case, older RTX cards *could* do multiple frame generation, but likely they don't enable it, because the AI performance just isn't enough to keep up with the raster performance when generating multiple frames, it might take 10ms for an AI frame instead of 5ms, so you'd then have to delay the real frame to fit all the AI frames in, which would add way too much latency. But, providing there is enough AI performance on the table, it shouldn't really add any latency at all. The main thing is having that baseline 60fps so the starting input latency is already good enough. I'm no expert, but I think it works something like this, so if anyone knows better, please correct me if I'm wrong :)

[@emilguldmann6816]

Will it be possible to implement more recent input than the latest rendered frame in frame generation?

[@Nayr7928]

So now I can't say that my teammates are absolute bots as an insult??

[@RichFromQueensNY]

I think we can all agree we have to take everything that is said with a grain of salt it's a 100% small demo in a controlled environment. Easily could be 100% manipulated to be working just in that small area that he got to try out. Remember they're going to show you the best possible outcome everything else looks ridiculous no one wants to talk into a mic and change the colors of things. I mean seeing him do it he looked uncomfortable and look like he was uneasy even doing it.. maybe that's because he was standing up but maybe he knew it was idiotic. I just don't understand it why are we pushing for super high frame rates that introduces lag and then you use another technology to reduce the lag but still lag more than the natural input. Why does it have to be 200 plus frames why does everything have to be gimmicks forget Ray tracing that has done nothing but ruin gaming since it came out increased prices and decreased performance. Somehow they have to build that into the engine itself it can't be done via hardware I mean a 5090 at full 4K with no dlss and with Ray tracing 29 frames per second are you kidding me? I believe that was on cyberpunk. A 600 watt card at 29 frames per second without the gimmicks.

[@nick_g]

Everyone who was actually there at CES was impressed by Nvidia. But you can’t say that because KZbin audience is biased against Nvidia so you only see videos bashing them for fake frames. Reality is that Nvidia’s tech looks and plays great from everyone who has actually tried it in person.

[@mackovo6]

Exactly, on youtube everyone is cheering for AMD, only to be disappointed by them and their issues and experience. And end up purchasing Nvidia's products. I have used AMD and Nvidia's GPUs and i can only say that Nvidia has been more consistent and better than AMD. AMD is great too but not as good as Nvidia is the one you want to rely on for a wide range of situations.

[@Snakkers]

They need to build a card special for VR users. Like 2 cards in 1 like sli. Or make framegen and dlls work.

[@koford]

Then my question is: How bad was it before? Was it ever BAD with 40-series? Whats not so bad this time around? im confuse.

[@bankaimaster999]

It wasn't bad, but it wasn't polished enough, however, you can consider this Frame Gen v2.0 like how they improved DLSS 1 to DLSS 2. As for all the "fake frame" non-sense ... pixel peepers are just doom posting fake frames (even though most of them use DLSS and frame gen behind the scenes)

[@C0lbyte]

I dont get why people whine about the comparison from 40 series to 50 series. Its like they talk about its only possible to buy a 50 card if you own a 40 card. What about people buying their first card or someone upgrading from 10 series or something. Then these cards would be the best pick. Also why cry about raw performance. Nvidia is clearly focusing on new technology rather than just putting in a bigger motor. They added tonnes more AI cores. If they wanted to they could probably easily have picked more cuda cores or something. But their focus was on next gen tech. But yes new tech = new baby problems.

[@garypranzo9334]

If I am a creator usinf Topaz and davinci resolve should I just be looking at the raw performance? I currently have a 4070 TI

[@shredderorokusaki3013]

I have RX 6700XT 12 GB RED DEVIL since 2021 and it still runs all games maxed 1440p 60 fps. In games who have ray tracing iuse FSR to run them with max graphicds ad max ray tracing 1440p 60 fpa while those who dont have ray tracing still run maxed 1440p 60 fps without FSR. Which means that the only reaosn fo me to get a RTX 5070 will be for max graphics and max ray traicngf 1440p 60 fps without FSR but it is not worth it to give so much money for it as idont ealy need it. MINE MONSTER PC IS RYZEN 7 1700 RX 6700XT 12 GB RED DEVIL MP 600 2TB WRITE:4950MB/S READ:4250MB/S DELLP2416D 24'' 2560X1440 60 HZ IPS It loads evrything in 1 second(windows, internet, games, movies/series, programs) and also has amazing graphics in games maxed 1440p and also in movies and series. Which means that it dosent need any upgrades at this time.

[@DenverStarkey]

the more and more i hear about nvidia's plans for "the future of PC gaming" the less and less i like it , the less i like nvidia as a company. it just sounds like less innovation in hardware , more and more like letting AI drive graphics and games. it's sounds like they are hooked into a "apple" marketing mindset : "show em pretty so the forget about the $2000 dollars they are spending on underperfoming hardware." to me it sounds like the death of gaming in general.

[@samuelnavarro8044]

So don’t buy it. What’s so hard about that concept?

[@DenverStarkey]

@samuelnavarro8044 what's so hard about NOT making A-hole comment like what you just said? you got no self control in the a-hole department? obivously i'm not gonna buy it jack a--. your post only exist as some shit head way to dismiss what i was posting, while insulting my intelligence. F off.

[@moskitoh2651]

2 things matter: - input lag - subjective quality If I look at the new 5000 series, for me it looks like they can be used to improve either of them drastically compared to last gen. 5070 Ti will be my next card, if first Independent videos and benchmarks look good.

[@Kyanzes]

The AI bosses definitely need a Focus or Attention attribute. Quite simply, they need to be "able" to do mistakes. Just as real or fictional characters do mistakes, these AI characters also need to be able to do mistakes. Otherwise they either become totally knowable or unconquerable. Basically some ability based randomness in action.

[@Safetytrousers]

I long have really been annoyed by 'beating a game". If a game wanted to win it would make itself impossible to complete.

[@NEBUL4]

I want that Nvidia driver 571.53, wanna try it out !!!!

[@SJkopa]

The dlss4 problem and the delay time are serious problems... There is a lot of solid evidence for this... You are being scammed by Nvidia Chairman Huang.

[@herobrinecyberdemon8104]

They are obviously showing cherry-picked scenarios on their booth to raise their stock prices as always. Nvidia offering lazy "optimizations" for lazy developers is not going to work forever - least Huang will take his software partners to corporate Hell with him a few gens after. People should stop paying for and playing this modern AI soap - least they should make AI porn games, these would sell so well.

[@pistopit7142]

Frame generation does not work in VR with 40 series. Will multi frame generation in 50 series work in VR?

[@silentnative0134]

Well, if the 5080 is only 10% increase in performance from the 4080 it just goes to show you that the future is just optimization of your games with AI. Buckle up people we are in for some shit.

[@John-fn7sp]

all this hype for the 90 to just not get one for 10 months

[@mikeramos91]

I hope future game system requirements don’t ask for Frame Generation 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@MW-776]

My AI cheat buddy says ..no

[@deeteedubzz]

Nvidia always finds a way to go too far and miss the mark.

[@BSGNZ]

With all this AI stuff - how big will the monthly Driver updates be for 50 series cards?

[@Mr_Centipede]

Seems like NVDIA on damage control mode. Seeing a lot of videos of this kind lately.

[@ethlanrete6736]

They should use last two real frames instead of 1 to generate.

[@arch1107]

it is bad, because you are not paying for hardware you bought, but for the promise software will fake your experience this is how the pc master race ends

[@Sarvesh_Yenarkar]

but i dont understand why its bad if its fake ? its accuracy matters and its spot on!?

[@jimdob6528]

We are reaching a plateau on the hardware front. We need software to catch up and this is the way it has to go. Don’t agree with these ridiculous prices but that’s what happens when only one company has a viable edge and none of the competitors know how to actually market their products.

[@TheDragonfriday]

​@@Sarvesh_Yenarkarsince it fake frames it useless in competitive games with fake frames it predict ahead of time in single player games.... Not online, like when you peak shoot someone at a window. YOU did not hit the target, you hit the fake frame, then got killed by that target. This is why every frame matters, yes you can turn it off. But get rid of it, your basically paying half of the product at this point.... Remember it 2000$ is it worth it?

[@Inf1niteDreams]

develop a way to overcome the physical limits, then talk

[@furiousblockyplayz7852]

@@Sarvesh_Yenarkar fake frames increase latency, in a Hardware Unboxed video comparing DLSS 2 vs DLSS 3 (given it may not have been 3.1 so it's not entirely accurate) in F1 22, DLSS 3 nearly doubled the latency from 27.4ms (DLSS 2) to 45.5 (DLSS 3), which in a competitive game would be very bad, and even for some non-competitive games that require fast movements. (take exact numbers with a grain of salt, this was based off of older information)

[@joaquinmadrid3642]

Does somebody know if Nvidia is planning to upgrade the Geforce Now service?

[@michigantoga]

People complaining will be crying if they can't buy one. Just let the cards come out. People were complaining left & right about the 4090, but it was off shelves in a milli second. My best friend was one of them

[@Basilflowers]

If gas became 3dollars more expensive you'd complain too. If you require a car to get to work you'd hope for companies controlling the price to make it cheaper. If you require a gpu to render for your personally owned business you'd hope highend consumer cards were a bit more affordable but buy it anyways because it does the job quicker and time is money

[@Besotted85]

Thats not the point buddy.😅

[@ArcticPrimal]

Scalpers and businesses mostly bought it off the shelves. We are talking about gaming here. Plus, its mediocre hardware performance increase across the 50 series, not just the 5090

[@Doubleome1]

The fact they are selling doesn’t mean the price is right

[@longjohn526]

@@Doubleome1 Actually it does mean the price is right. If it sells out at a certain price point then why in the world would you lower the price point? That's like going to your boss and saying I want a 10% decrease in pay

[@davidsmith4186]

5070 48SM- 4070 46SM= 5% faster 5070Ti 70SM- 4070Tisuper 66SM = 6% Faster 5080 84SM- 4080super 80SM = 5% Faster 4090 128SM-5090 170SM=33% Faster. 5090 or don't upgrade. 🤷‍♂️

[@IndianCitizen04]

nVidia is now desperately doing the damage control with all premiere Hardware KZbinrs. Lets come AMD 9070 and Battalemage 770 card with plenty VRAM and then compare the price/performance among all of them.

[@samuelnavarro8044]

You’re basically comparing an inferior brand/product against Nvidia. It’s not a 1 for 1. At the end of the day when Nvidia shows better performance, people will be like: “BuT iT cOsTs LeSs To RuN ____”