How Buffalo Trace Is Combating Counterfeit Whiskey!

[@shawnschaffer5320]

I have to tell you, as someone who watches all of your livestreams the next day (can't make the lives typically) my favorite part of every one of them is after the games, etc. when you two have real conversations. I think chat definitely gets in the way, but I understand why it needs to, the lives are meant for community interaction. I really think a series like this, a podcast, or even reformatting the lives to have some area for this would be a great move and a really strong way to differentiate the channel from others (most streams get in the same rhythm, and it's not a knock on you guys at all). Would love to see more thoughtful discussion because honestly outside of all of the fuckery I think it's a strong quality this channel possesses. For example, the Secondary/Justin's House of Bourbon was a great discussion on Tuesday. I also think finding a way to have your community engage with counterpoints to your thoughts would be great, just to expand the conversation even further (maybe a poll on Patreon or a post where you list a topic and people comment, you answer/respond to the most upvoted responses?) That is all, sorry for the novel. Haha.

[@wyattalexander4041]

Clipping the live streams would be awesome to… I work so much I wish I could catch more streams those discussions clipped and edited onto KZbin would probably do great as well great comment and suggestion for the community 100% agree !

[@big_goat]

Im glad you guys are having this talk, anything that interferes with resellers is a step in the right direction.

[@jaymze44]

Not really with interfering with reselling, just faking. Great idea regardless.

[@big_goat]

@@jaymze44 i dont think you fully get whats coming. RFID & NFC chips are the future. Eventually every product thats real will have this and be able to be tracked from start to finish. Also your comment is suggesting that resellers & counterfeiters are mutually exclusive. Counterfeiters got their start from reselling. So anything that disrupts resellers hence is a good thing.

[@craiggeauxtreaux5862]

Re selling is the ONLY way a shit ton of bourbon drinkers get the stuff you pretentious "In the circle" guys get. I've been trying 2 years to get in the graces of local liquor stores in hopes I can be offered the ability to purchase even 1 or 2 allocated per year. I'm not even talking about BTAC. Just normal stuff. Secondary is how we get our bourbon because liquor stores are straight up bitches. We want to taste that shit too man......Now as far as faking goes. That's sucks ass

[@craiggeauxtreaux5862]

Where I live. Absolutely nothing of remote popularity even thinks about being put on the shelf. You can literally go in and ask "what yall got" and they'll say "man times are tough". Or some bs like that. Then if you stay in there long enough you can literally witness them pull something from behind the counter and sell it to someone. Happened a few weeks ago to me with a weller full proof. I spend money in these stores too. Not just bourbon. My wife's wine, our beer, mixers, glassware. Attend all the tastings and tip very well. They just don't give a fuck. They a select group of people that get the bourbons and that's it. Fuck everyone else

[@BourbonJunkies]

Sounds like a shitty store situation to me. May be a hike but I'd find a different place to soend my money.

[@JJ-nh8lv]

Buffalo Trace/Sazerac should put a cap on the secondary market. The 2ndary needs to mark up the bottles to make a profit, but some of these prices out there are unreasonable and criminal. I can find Stagg for $50 - 250 in my area. It's good, but I wouldn't pay more than $80 for a bottle. It's nuts.

[@fox189]

Great topic! That's why I have always told myself I would not pay more than MSRP for any bottle. Yes it makes the HUNT that much harder, but also that much more fun. I have scored Blanton's, EH, Eagle Rare and Remus Repeal etc. just to name a few this way. I'm not going to lie I also live less than a half hour to the next state so that helps as well., but I figure if I can only find it on secondary to buy then it is not worth my money when I can find Old Forester, 1792, and Elijah Craig products in my store all day long and are just happy with those! Keep up the good vids. Hello from Washington State.

[@brandon_sprague]

I think its smart by Buffalo Trace 100%. Alot of people say dont buy secondary and you dont have to worry. But they are ignoring the fact that fake bottles have been found in brick and mortar retail stores with the 4 Grain. If this becomes the widely used standard you'll be able to confirm that any bottle on the shelf hasnt been swapped before it got to the store in the distribution process. Doesnt have to ONLY mean anything to secondary

[@EscobarStyle]

This is why I can care LESS for Pappy and most of these “high end” B. Trace bottles. Secondary is ridiculous!! Just sad that most of us can’t afford and taste some of these juices. Thanks for making this video guys. Great to hear 💪🏼

[@TheSuburban15]

I find Benchmark. . . sometimes.

[@effwardangerston8034]

LOVED THIS!! We need MORE talk like this please!?!! Enjoy industry talk, upcoming releases, etc... It's difficult to sometimes sit through 3 hours of listening to you guys just read comments of Super Chats.. sorry.

[@hyseptu1733]

Yeah this was a great conversation!!! Loved it!!!

[@BourbonJunkies]

I mean not every stream is all super chats, we talk to people that don't super chat quite a bit. Also, I get it can be a lot some nights. Glad you liked the content though

[@joeyyoshizumi]

I really like this series!!! I’m just really glad that that I was paying attention because I though you had said they were putting NFTS on the bottles and I got really excited for a second….. then I calmed down and listened, I mean it makes sense!

[@toddjones9715]

Great conversation guys!!! Hats off to Buffalo Trace to trying something to combat the scammers.

[@adamcrews4398]

I think that, this type of content is desperately needed. I don’t have time to scour the internet for the latest in bourbon/whiskey news. I pick up a magazine from time to time, but how old is that news by the time I read it. I think it would be great if you did more on the state of bourbon. P.S. I would be more likely to buy something with an aftermarket price, if their was protection against counterfeiting

[@JimbOh64]

This is super interesting and really liked this video. In my opinion, it's 100% about protecting their brands. Buffalo Trace's value, popularity and demand may be as high as it as ever been. As a company, having your consumers pay premium prices and receiving counterfeit product only devalues your brand, the consumer experience, confidence in your product and potentially change the perception of your brand. I work for a large sporting goods company and we have a team devoted to stopping counterfeit product and it's amazing how crazy the counterfeit world is. Does it benefit us as consumers? Yes. Ultimately, Buffalo Trace feels that this will benefit them and ultimately protect/enhance their bottom line.

[@BigJilm84]

I love this kind of content. I usually watch the live streams the next morning and I understand it but sometimes get annoyed when you get into something and have to read chat. Keep em comin.

[@JayPatel-xl7rg]

You guys doing sober conversation without the superchat distraction? And actual information? yeah, I like this kind of content.

[@ravensoath]

Thanks for the great live the other night guys! Whiskey tribe, Jeremy seirs and you guys are doing the Lord’s work!

[@timp1215]

I have a '21 bottle of THHS and the NFC chip is present without an App, just need the NFC setting turned on, on your phone. The technology can be a LOT more expensive than just the tags. The tags in bulk can drive down the price sure (like 10 cents USD), but we're talking about a potentially proprietary tag specifically made to fit and function under the foil as a tamper detection device, not your run of the mill cheap store tags. Lets get away from the tags for a bit; those tags are registered somewhere, some tech company somewhere (probably third party) is registering each tag and validating it before it leaves the warehouse (quality control). Depending on the company, that really drives the pricing. The tags can be extremely delicate esp. in transit, so if Sazarac Co. is going to implement this across their entire lineup, foil will have to become the new standard. There are ways to get it under plastic and I am sure there is a solution to say, hide it behind the bond seal. The key factor is, making the tags in such a way that it will be destroyed any time someone attempts to bypass it. I really like the tech, i think it's needed because if a NYC store is counterfeiting, not just secondary, the brand loses its value because all costumers want that warm and fuzzy that if we spend even 100$, we're getting what we paid for and this is an excellent way to get it.

[@harrypecker]

Great info please give more information on NFC’s and what it can do to reduce fraudulent bottles

[@danielmiddendorf150]

Videos of what is current in the bourbon world is cool and a nice change of pace. More please!

[@dmillitello73]

It makes sense for them to take steps to protect their brand. The real question is how long will it take the crooks to adapt.

[@BourbonJunkies]

100%, it's a road block. People find their way around them. At least they're trying to do something to help consumers

[@gtankg8561]

This opens the idea of some really interesting transparency also if Implemented broadly! Imagine scanning a bottle of a single barrel and the app popping up with a barreling date or a cool video of the spirit being barred or warehouse location stuff. I know this feature isn’t necessarily practical for the distillery but whisky nerds would LOVE the experience.

[@gtankg8561]

I’m kinda talking about combining augmented reality with whisky

[@mattredfield8647]

They do it for pretty inexpensive wine allready. And i agree it would be awesome to see in the whisky world as well

[@chrissprague5412]

Love the set down and discuss podcast style format of the video. Nice job guys.

[@01sallee]

Love this! Keep doing convos like this that aren't 40 hours long lol. Also what happened to you guys ranking every bottle from different distilleries? Need that Makers Mark and Heaven Hill in my life lol

[@NorthWestBourbon]

That's great, a big thing is what you mentioned - it doesn't make them money, it protects the consumers and their name. Cheers to them, good job.

[@j.d.7574]

Interesting change-up, I enjoyed listening and learning.

[@ElectroWolf22]

Definitely a big fan of these kind of talks, more breakdowns of whiskey news and whatnot from you guys would be greatly appreciated!

[@rrkaminski9]

I like these convos. You guys are my go-to to keep up with new whiskeys so if I can get som industry news and changes, that’s great!

[@ryandees6044]

The reviews are my favorite, but I really enjoyed this one fellas

[@chrisbrown7216]

If Buffalo Trace/Sazerac is going to do this and one of the pre-requisites is having a foil top, I would imaging more of their lines will come with foil tops.

[@charleswicks-stephens1753]

My eagle rare 17 2021 has an nft on the foil also. Was a little surprised at first to see it.

[@MD_1985]

Great segment! Enjoy this type of content

[@brendankloos4316]

I have 2 handy and the app hit on them immediately. Very cool I tried my pappys and nothing. Buffalo trace definitely taking steps forward and I hope others fallow. Great video you guys are the best. Thanks so much for all the knowledge

[@BourbonJunkies]

Yea we've only heard of them on BTAC not Pappy's so far

[@BourbonJunkies]

Yea we've only heard of them on BTAC not Pappy's so far

[@nicmac3347]

Definitely sounds like a conversation that need to be had, great topic. 🍻

[@matthorn3302]

I liked this style of video a lot. I look forward to more videos on different topics. As far as the nfc thing, I think it's a good idea. It won't stop the secondary market though. But it will help put a hurt on the counterfeit market for sure.

[@EricWindham]

Could push secondary prices higher. Less available bottles(of course, the extra were counterfeit) and now there can be a guarantee that it's authentic.

[@ThriftyWhiskey]

It does help them maintain their brand. If people are putting fakes out there, they don't want that tarnishing their brand, so this help ensure that counterfeits are marked, and helps protect us the consumer.

[@naspyro1511]

The bottle of THH I got this year has it on it and it scanned on the NFC tools app I have.

[@jackward5204]

Dan dissing Sean for being distracted by the chat while he can't finish the Old Forester blind in under an hour cause of the chat is absolutely hilarious. (all jokes love everything y'all do).

[@nealculler7797]

Thanks fellas! Really appreciate this type of content. Almost like a short podcast format! Keep them coming

[@jackstrawwichita8073]

Hi guys - Really like this kind of content. Hits all the buttons of communications: Timely, relevant and fact -based. Keep up the good work!!

[@sportsjoe13]

I fully support anything that helps anyone buying a bottle know that they are actually getting what they’re paying for. I’ve never had pappy, so if I bought a bottle and it was actually full of Weller I wouldn’t have anything to compare it to. Hopefully this becomes industry wide and they figure out a way to stop flippers from just jacking up prices.

[@brienburke4382]

Great Subject. Keep it coming!

[@normlang1994]

It behooves any/all brands to take steps to curb/eliminate counterfeits. You see it in Tech (e.g. CPUs & GPUs), Sports (e.g. Golf Drivers, etc), Fashion (e.g. Gucci, etc.)...so why not whiskey? I've been expecting BT to start gradually raising prices across their entire line, for the past 10 years. Just basic supply and demand. If MSRP went up by 50%, would it cut into the secondary market...one would think. But I'm also sure there'd still be guys able to flip the allocated stuff at higher prices. If Saz/BT is ever able to ramp production to meet demand, THAT would kill secondary.

[@rmalc11]

Really interesting information. I'm all for this type of video as a little change in direction every so often.

[@igogun]

Love this! We all love bourbon/whiskey so who doesn't want more info on the industry and what affects the prices? I've been wondering about the drama at Buffalo Trace thanks for the explanation.

[@MassEveNova]

I believe the whisky tubers like yourselves have instigated this move by BT. I base a ton of my decisions, regarding which whisky is worth throwing money at, on blind tastings and recommendations of YTers. It would only take a few fakes being tasted and rejected on video to put off many potential buyers.

[@steveszymanski2962]

Sean nailed it - protects their name - plus, would BT then have additional data? not smart enough to know what they would do with the data, but if they got additional data, data is king

[@brianmccarthy5419]

I like it. I'm the bourbon nerd in my group of bourbon drinking friends. Stuff like this helps me nerd out even more. 🤓

[@jthomas0298]

Just scanned my WLW that I purchased from AL’s ABC and a picked up a code. Not much detail. I’ll try a different app

[@ExcenDammit]

This is good stuff. A marked contrast to Dan's usual Tim Taylor-esque grunting in lieu of tasting notes.

[@Dmurphy527]

I am a big fan of the idea. I liken to the Bottle-in-Bond Act of 1897. They are doing everything they can to bring authenticity, honesty and integrity to the industry

[@wyattalexander4041]

So glad this got brought up I recently had a bottle of Sam Huston 15 or Calumet surprisingly and this had an NFC on it… I had never seen it before and learned all about it this past Christmas. I agree it’s selfless on BT and should be known more great video and conversation I’m all for this technology and improving it ! Was surprised to see this on a non-BT product as well so clearly other whiskey producers are wanting to use it too!

[@Madwyer]

Great way to protect the consumer and their line.

[@Davidw117]

Good and helpful video, Dan & Sean. Keep these up!

[@mikem4432]

they can add a hologram sticker on the cork that must be broken to open the bottle.. visually makes it easy to spot a previously opened bottle.

[@ir8jorge99]

I f@$king love this video! Really expands the Bourbon Junkies brand. It’s the right length! Awesome content. Keep it way up!

[@Jared40]

Keep up the good content glad you guys did a video bout this subject 👍🏻🥃cheers to a great 2022

[@nguye578]

FWIW a lot of scotch whiskeys have been putting either hologram seals or tracking codes on bottle so that you know if it's either been tampered with/faked or you can look up the tracking code and see where the bottle was shipped to and when it was bottled (which isn't perfect, but if a code if registered to the EU in 2018 and you are in Seattle 2022 and the person you bought it from says they got it at a liquor store here... raises some flags)

[@Jrnyxm3]

Great content here. It worked on my 21 THH and had a link that said it was unopened. I think that BT bottles are the most counterfeited though, so it makes sense why they were the first to do it. I hope all distillers with special releases follow suit.

[@christianvenzais6709]

Awesome stuff guys really look forward to more of these kind of vids in 2022.

[@richmcelmeel5430]

For someone that has a brutal time finding these high end bottles...I'm for it....as for content, if it makes me a better consumer, then the content is spot on for my needs

[@WombatAnnihilator]

Fascinating. I always wondered about the legitimacy of secondary, but aside from tossing a label on something, didn’t know how far counterfeiters will actually go. The nfc chip seems like a rad idea though.

[@Farmhand22]

Absolutely love this style of video, definitely wana see more!

[@BourbonJunkies]

thank you!

[@adirtysock9720]

Really interesting video and I appreciate spreading this info. I look forward to the BJ picks having this tech added.

[@boosted3s]

Vechain has been doing this with wine for a while now.

[@mitchelllaliberte7447]

The secondary market is bad enough price wise. I can't imagine paying higher cost just to get a fake bottle. Buffalo Trace needs to combat this issue for their own sake, and good for them for taking the costs on themselves. Them making strides like this will only make people love and appreciate their brand more. Great video guys, I hope this is true and will kill a bad part of this amazing hobby!

[@sitori663]

Because of the secondary market & insane prices, many employees in charge of liquor at big retail stores that sell at retail are nabbing the allocated bourbon for themselves to drink or resell, or have family & friends buy it. Employees tell me how they wait by the loading docks to get the bottles before customers! Those bottles no longer make it to shelves anymore. An employee at the biggest alcohol retailer gave him a bottle of Weller Special Reserve for Xmas. So he must be hooking that customer up. I wasn't giving him $100+ gifts so this was the first year I scored no special bottles at that store. Sketchy stuff going on. I'm not chasing allocated bottles anymore. If I find one - great. I'm very happy with ECBP - which sits on shelves while lesser allocated bottles are chased. Rare Breed. Knob Creek. Maker's Mark 46 / Cask Strength / etc. etc.

[@BourbonJunkies]

I'm sure there are for sure stories of that happening, but it's not every store that's doing it

[@takashiemota9784]

Amazing topic! Since Dan wasn't around for the second time, Sean just carried the whole video on his own!

[@rockinpranch8173]

Really like the content. I think it would be an interesting discussion/debate to talk about raising msrp. In my mind, that’s really the only way to cut down on fakes and people buying solely to flip. Raise prices close to what secondary is bringing, since that’s actually what demand is, and you’ll allow the supply to catch back up.

[@enricojaun2880]

I would like to see BT sell all their stuff to charity Organizations for whatever price they want, charities could then raffle them off as a benefit. Frankly im disgusted with the state of bourbon. Im pretty much only buying scotch anymore.

[@miked8236]

Great content, great video. I don’t know how well they could track it, but this could be very very useful for shipments leaving the United States. Mexico, the Caribbean, Latin America are rife with counterfeit bottles of liquor.

[@oboecoe]

I feel like this is the modern day version of the Bottled in Bond Act that was headed up by EH Taylor. While yes, that act/law had a direct benefit to distilleries it also was a way to protect consumers from purchasing rip-offs with dangerous components in it. I'm not saying counterfeiters now will put anything dangerous in their products like back then, but it's still a general stamp of approval that I can see being copied by other distilleries that have rare/allocated bottles to protect their name in the market.

[@matthewjoyce1059]

Great move by BT. Love the effort. Might reduce counterfeits, but some operations will get their hands on new NFC tags and just replace them with the foil unfortunately.

[@MichaelJ-fn5pl]

Definitely like this content more please Cheers!

[@tinytinytimyall]

Can confirm, pulled a chip off my saz 18 this year

[@beginningbourbon7385]

Love this format! Buffalo trace seems legit. They definitely come off as customer focused. I know when I went on a Bourbon Trail it was the only place that didn’t charge for a tasting. And they said the reason is, we consider you family and we would charge Family for a tasting.

[@irishted13]

Great video! I like the discussion aspect…maybe do this once a quarter…

[@toshibake]

Agree it's a great addition. The 2021 THH I have has it under the foil. I scanned it just now since I've been drinking the bottle and it shows it's opened, pretty damn cool! Good episode guys.

[@tada6631]

I saw an article about the new BT anti counterfeiting tech back in Oct 2021. I think it is a good thing. Doing this is a huge benefit to BT because it protects their reputation and the reputation of the quality of their products. It would not be good if people were buying counterfiet BTAC for huge amounts of money but when they taste it, it is cheap tasting and doesnt measure up to the price the victim paid for it. Tje fallout from this could really kill BT's bottom line.

[@nunyabidness454]

supply is the only thing that will fix the secondary market. i enjoyed the video....cheers.

[@akdmkjeanius662]

Love this kind of content, keep it coming BJ’s!

[@prccap]

One of the ways the wine world is doing this is with Geo trackers on each bottle. On Opus One you can IR scan the bottle and it will tell you were that bottle is located, so if it doesn’t came back as the bottle in your hands then it is fake. They also put color sensitive labels on the bottle that you need a filter to read it

[@johnrobert4877]

Yes love this topic. Thank you so much for bringing this up it is a much needed Topic to discuss. Keep up the great work

[@bcoleman1307]

I was lucky to be able to pick up a ‘21 BTAC Handy and it had the NFC under the foil cap…I did notice it, but didn’t realize that this what was going on…very cool to know

[@jaxblaster84]

7-8 years from now secondary will take a huge hit once the ramp up from BT starts producing and there’s more on the shelf’s.

[@mikefranklin3874]

I like the new video. Good PR move for BT.

[@jasonharris3090]

Like this stuff, enjoy learning more about the industry!

[@fearsfiltered]

I love this kind of video. I honestly don't drink much (Bourbon or anything really.) But it's interesting to learn more about it. And honestly more videos from you guys is always a good thing.

[@johnhastings1874]

I've been saying for years that BT should raise their prices!

[@phatzwave4424]

At one time they were raising quickly. I got '07 BTAC's for $65 and by 2010 I was paying $85. Pre-hype was wonderful!

[@StonedSpagooter]

Its actually really smart to get on top of it before half the people who want it go away because its not worth the hunt just to get something that has a good chance of being fake

[@tonsofbees537]

Like the video. I can read the article…… but rather hear it from your sweet voices…. And get your opinions.

[@thomasaccuntius9946]

I like that idea. I cant help thinking of the constantly long lines at Buffalo Trace of people waiting to buy whatever bottle of bourbon thay have for sale that day. You know a lot of them are buying for the secondary market. So here is my idea, when someone buys a bottle at BT , whatever the brand, they break the seal. If its for personal consumption, then its no big deal. If its a gift, then the recipient will need to trust you. But if its for the secondary market ,too bad.

[@bradballard3408]

Super cool, very interesting. Keep ‘em coming!

[@justinhillhouse8906]

May have been answered, but couldn't anti-counterfeit technology also drive up prices on secondary? counterfeits go away -> supply decreases -> demand increases -> price increases.

[@BourbonJunkies]

Yeah I'd argue that trust and reliability increases as well so people feel safe buying on secondary. Definitely possible.

[@gingergeezer3685]

This is good content,, guys. I love learning things like this. Thanks!

[@BourbonJunkies]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Pikapp43]

Off topic but can you guys get your hands on Mike Rowe’s Knobel whiskey and taste it and maybe figure out where it’s sourced? Someone said it’s Dickel?

[@teofilstevenson]

There also needed to be a certified on-line liquor sales site process. I don't know what that looks like but I bought an allocated bottle at 2ndary price, I have not opened it yet but I have used and trust this site/store. Otherwise if I wait a year (special occasion) to open this then it becomes even more difficult to take appropriate action against the fraud. Well how long I wait is really irrelevant, we want to stop this activity from the start.

[@philipsheridan2952]

BTW I love this type of episode in between all your other ones and I do really hope the industry joins in on this idea

[@DJ-tn9zk]

Curious idea... how many barrels or inside stuff actually sitting at heaven hill? 30 yr old barrels, 50 maybe even 100?? I know if I was a master distiller I'd have a private stash... cant imagine being able to sample a barrel 1 of the past distillers actually barreled

[@joshuasullivan7003]

I like the video concept. Dont think you need to make it a weekly video but something to maybe change up your filming schedule. I am sure filming similar content has to get slightly old at times.

[@donnytaylor1896]

You talked about the fact BT hasn’t raised prices in some time and this measure benefits the consumer primarily. I agree with Sean that it will actually bolster the secondary prices, which are already out of control. So if BT wanted to sell more, prohibit counterfeiting while lowering secondary prices, they should flood the market for a short period with all of their whiskeys. Enough to bring down or eliminate secondary prices, which in turn corrects counterfeiting and they make money by selling more.

[@BourbonJunkies]

It's possible if they flood the market they ruin their stocks for the next set of years and make the problem worse.

[@donnytaylor1896]

@@BourbonJunkies That is a possibility, but I think these distilleries are playing ball with the distributors and store owners. For example in Michigan in 2019 when a distributor was caught hoarding BT products and the State sued them to release the inventory to stores. Sazerac penalized the State/distributor by limiting their top tier allocations. Or stores that have to buy store picks of a lower tier product en mass just to get three ETLs at the end of the year. Or when you visit Old Forester and they wheel out 2018 Birthday Bourbon on carts twice a day to visitors to buy. I see your point, but also think they have capability to do more

[@jasony103]

Love the discussion talk!!

[@pjuice03]

What's the song at the end during the names being shown? Great cut and can't find on Shazam! Awesome content too! Cheers

[@BourbonJunkies]

Early by DJ Quads