How cable and vertical lift hills work on rides

It’s simple right, what goes up must come down.
This is the fundamental principle on how most rollercoasters work.
But how do we get the train up there.
Today let’s talk about how vertical lift hills and cable lift hills work.

[@mmocken]

suggestion, maybe discuss new lift cable at Dollywood and your thoughts on the launch issues

[@markvolpe2305]

Are you talking about Lightning Rod? If so, that's a high speed chain lift, not a cable lift.

[@Spike-sk7ql]

And he already did a video on Lightning Rod when they announced the change.

[@TripleTSingt]

this gonna be good, Gerstlauer Vertical Lifts are so whacky from an engineering standpoint

[@CheesecakeMilitia]

Would love to see a deeper analysis of different vertical lift anti rollback mechanisms and how evacs are performed. Specifically the differences between Intamin's vertical lifts, S&S's vertical lifts, Zeirer's vertical lift (Impulse), and all the "wait how are these actually distinct from one another" Gerstlaurer's from early EuroFighters like Untamed, the more recent lap bar Eurofighters like Iron Shark, to the Infinity coasters like Monster.

[@kazio6303]

Maurer also makes vertical lift hills on their skyloop model. These are interesting because of the fact this is also the final brakrun of the ride. Typhoon at Bobbejaanland has the second vertical lifthill gerstlauer has ever built. Has a system without catchcars, i remember once seeing a video were there were 2 cars on the lift hill at the same time Karnan at Hansa Park also has a vertical chainlift, hover due to some special effect on the lift hill (within the tower) it is only able to have 1 catchcar

[@schagerbaantje]

Typhoon in Bobbejaanland definitely does feature a Catchcar like described. Look at pov and you will see the chain moving without the train moving.

[@kazio6303]

​@@schagerbaantje I looked into it, it indeed has the catcher, but then it must have 4 so 2 trains can be on the lift at the same time, but for that the lift will have to slow down if the first car is about halfway to engage the second one

[@bocahdongo7769]

Thank you so much for covering this tho. I really wondering this from long ago Really appreciated

[@Deebofreebo]

Very cool channel, thanks for sharing!

[@ryantheridemechanic]

Thank you very much!

[@matb9027]

Not a fan of vertical lift hills but they save space so can see why parks have them. Smiler at Alton Towers yeesh 😬

[@BlueZirnitra]

They do the job in an interesting enough way. A good coaster starts after the lift hill anyway. The real problem is that they are generally associated with Gerstlauer. A divisive and uneven manufacturer.

[@crooked-halo]

I was hoping to see a mention & some analysis of the cable lifts used by the several scenic railway coasters operating overseas. Ever since riding a bunch of them in the mid 80s I've wondered how the train grabs the cable and holds on, and what method is used for anti rollback. Every single one I rode (about 5 or 6) is so smooth and effortless there's no feeling, sound or indication that the train has engaged the cable. Totally fascinating and wonderful video once again.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

Probably cam grips in next weeks video.

[@matb9027]

I think smiler at Alton towers uses magnetic brakes on actuators for the anti roll back. Fins drop as the train ascends then raise again as it passes. Not sure if this is the sole anti roll back or not

[@ryantheridemechanic]

Most of those rides just have the fin on a lever arm no actuator. As the train passes the Eddie force causes the fin to raise up and in. Then as soon as the shoe passes it just falls down and out.

[@wickedsickfunkyfreshroller2037]

I've seen this on impulse at Knoebels. Seems wildly inefficient to put a neumatic system on the entire lift like that but I guess it's better to not get stranded on a vertical lift.

[@spinba11]

The advantage of the smiler’s setup is the train can actually roll back down if the lift motor is reversed, happened to me on my first go on it

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@spinba11 evac off the Eddie brake lifts way easier than the ones with the hard ARB rail

[@SnowghostFilms]

Bit of an idea I have for a variation on a cable lift hill: The idea is to have two catch cars in two seperate troughs, so that one ascends while the other descends. Theoretically, this would halve the catch dog wear, allowing for higher capacity as you wouldn’t have to wait for the catch car to come back down, and be slightly easier on the motor as it effectively doesn’t have to lift the catch car and cable and only has to be on when it’s lifting a train. Idea came from a funicular railway, which uses a similar idea.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

Oh ok, so you could uses it on a high demand ride like a mad mouse. I guess it would depend on how tight you can get the two troughs next to each other. Most coasters only have about 8in of width to play with for these assembly’s. But that’s dictated by brake design. Intamin hyper have almost 2 feet to play with sense their brake fins are on the outside of the train.

[@MythicHellebore]

Good video! Sadly couldn't get any Millie (Millennium Force) video. It's OK she hauls ass up her hill too, even on that backup motor, lol. I'm looking forward to riding Skyrush this summer for the first time. I love how quick it hauls up that short hill. I may not be happy being slow lifted up Orian, though. Keep these cool videos coming, Ryan!

[@ryantheridemechanic]

Thank you!

[@Spike-sk7ql]

Millies lift used to be so much better when it had 2 speeds. 😢

[@MythicHellebore]

@@Spike-sk7ql the sad thing is Cedar Point didn't care to get the better motor back. I didn't get to ride it on the original one.

[@Spike-sk7ql]

@@MythicHellebore honestly, and sadly, there really isn't a reason to have the 2 speed lift anymore. It's been a while, but I do believe it was that way for the same reason the Beast at KI crawls up the first lift until the train ahead cleats the 2nd lift, then speeds up. Sadly, Millies dispatch time has taken a HUGE hit from what it used to be. Probably because cedar fair brought in that third party "safety man" company, and they can't do things the way they used to. El Toro Ryan has a great video explaining this a whole lot better than I am.😅 It could also be that the crews just aren't as good as they used to be. I remember how fast they were in the early 00s. That used to always be the best ride crew at the park. Now, they are regularly sending trains at around 2-3 minutes. Used to be about 45-50 seconds, and you would be on the lift hill while the train ahead was still on course. That's why I think Millie had the 2 speed lift.

[@MythicHellebore]

@ryantheridemechanic It will be more fun this year for my geeky self as I always ride in the front row. Now, with an understanding of what I am looking at waiting for the catch car to return. Thanks Ryan, I have learned a lot over this past year! Making my trip back this year even more fun. I will let you know about what I think of TT2, 😅😂

[@CalebKam]

3:52 I have always wondered why Gerstlauer lift takes forever to engage!

[@ryantheridemechanic]

When the lifting dog comes up the thought is “just kiss the train” don’t “slam” into the back of it. Unless you just like replacing everything.

[@schagerbaantje]

Fun fact, old Schwarzkopf Looping star coasters also used the hook like Catchcar like Gerstlauer uses. I remember when Slagharen in the Netherlands still had their's, when you where standing in front of the airgates you could see the hook popping up at the end of the station.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

I think those were true chains? Like a chain you would find at the hardware store with the lifting attachments on them.

[@schagerbaantje]

@@ryantheridemechanic you are correct! They also had a lot of sliding links every 1,5/2 meters which would guide the chains safely up and down the lift. Sliding on the metal of the track with allot of grease. The Catchcar was actually just one of those sliding links with the hook on it. Probably to keep it easier with transporting.

[@schagerbaantje]

In addition to myself, in this (sad) video (it was the announcement of the closure of looping star in Slagharen) at 1:17 you can see the sliding links on the chainlift that I was referring to: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGO2nKKDq9utZtUsi=UW6cWwfGsBr9sxER

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@schagerbaantje definitely a lot of grease!!

[@kendonagan5535]

You released this video on the day i was traveling down to Jersey and Hershey. It's a shame because i would have loved to have the knowledge when riding El Toro, Fahrenheit, and Skyrush. But I'll forgive you this time!

[@ryantheridemechanic]

Your fault for no invite!!! :( 🤣 😂😂😂🤣 how was Sky rush with the new restraints?

[@kendonagan5535]

@@ryantheridemechanic Going to a park with you would be awesome! Or super annoying maybe. lol. The new restraints on Skyrush are excellent. No pain at all. It's nice to see a park that obviously cares. They had a perfectly serviceable ride that got a lot of complaints. They heard those complaints and decided to spend the capital to fix it. Like putting new trains on Comet as well. Now they need to replace the wild mouse with a wild moose from RMC.

[@Scjheinen]

Fear of heigts on top of lift hill caught me haha, it's al fine and dandy until you have to step of the stairs and into the structure. I'm not afraid anymore but the first few times I definitly had that oh s* moment. I've always admired the Intamin cable lift system for it's fast and smooth lift experience. I wonder why their newer models like Konda (Walibi Belgium) use chainlifts again.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

Who knows. Could be as simple as the park said they don’t like cables, so they requested a standard chain lift. Most manufacturers will accommodate almost any special requests. And chain is a backwards step but everyone knows how to maintain a chain lift.

[@Scjheinen]

That might be true, still wierd to see.

[@Spike-sk7ql]

Intamins cable lifts are so cool. I-305 is so fast to the top. Millenium Force, however, USED TO BE fast, well... it used to have 2 speeds. Would start out slow, and then about halfway up would kick in to speed 2. I miss that. And Skyrush youre at the top before you even know it.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

I could see millennium force being the earlier model. I bet they wanted to take the train up slow onto the lift until they were sure everything was OK. Just a bit outside of the station and then move it to the fast speed. Sky was crazy fast! couldn’t believe it when I road it.

[@Spike-sk7ql]

@@ryantheridemechanic it would speed up about 1/3 to 1/2 way up the lift. I'm pretty sure it's mostly because they used to be real fast on dispatches there, and you were leaving the station before the main block was clear. Kind of like how the Beast crawls up the first lift hill, until the other train clears the 2nd lift hill, then it speeds up. Either way, the good, 2 speed or fast motor is gone, and the one they have now is nowhere near how fast it used to be.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@Spike-sk7ql ah that makes sense. On our RMC, I made the train slow at mid lift if the block ahead was occupied. Trying to buy some time to prevent the lift from shutting down at lift park.

[@ballbag]

Watch some clips of "Sik" at Flamingo Land's opening day. The system to lift the ARB dog wasn't working and so it was making horrible noises

[@ryantheridemechanic]

You can tell they were having some trouble keeping the drag wheel rolling wheel to the rail for a bit.

[@DJWezzyK]

I think Sunkid-Heege made more cable lifts on their butterfly coasters then Intamin😅

[@andrewkutchins7719]

I was hoping you'd touch on farenheit at Hershey. It seems like it doesn't have traditional anti-rollbacks but it does have 2 chains that work together. Is it safe to say there are sprags on both drive motors to stop rollbacks? Having a second chain is needed to create redundancy if one breaks since the chain is the actual anti-rollback system?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

Yes that is safe to say. Two independent systems working together. If one fails the other stands.

[@PaulN504]

Fahrenheit is the one I was thinking of as well since it's an unusual setup. I found an old forum post where someone got to talk with a Hersheypark maintenance manager and explained that there is a built in holding brake on each motor but the hydraulic motors and chains are capable of running in reverse (they have to be since if a lift evacuation is needed for some reason they would instead run it in reverse and bring it to the holding area before the lift). There's also a backup power supply to allow them to run it in reverse in case of a power failure.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@PaulN504 generally you would just open the brake and choke the hydraulic supply to slowly lower the train back down. But maybe Intamin actually can run them in reverse. Seems like a lot of trouble. Thanks for the good info!

[@AG7-MTM]

Why didn't you discuss Gerstlauer's infinty anti-rollback magnets that allow for trains to be lowered down the lift for evac or a purposeful "rollback drop" on Schwur des Karnan?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

Might be in next weeks video

[@wickedsickfunkyfreshroller2037]

Does the catch car on El Toro only attach to one point on the train? I always thought cable lift hills had a catch point on every car but the way you describe El Toro, it sounds like it just hooks on to the front car and starts going.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

It’s about mid train but yes just one point.

[@kendonagan5535]

I got to ride Toro this weekend. That thing is a BEAST!

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@kendonagan5535 I just want to ride it so I can say I went on a prefab woodie.

[@kendonagan5535]

@ryantheridemechanic they put a lot of work into it since the pothole a couple years ago. It's got to be the smoothest woodie I've been on.

[@collinparsons3363]

It's under car 3. You can hear a loud pop when it engages. It startles many first time riders.

[@bpark10001]

The disadvantage of weight tensioners is their poor performance when subject to dynamic loads. The inertia of the weight is their worst enemy. An interesting solution is to have a weight, & a spring, (with a damper across the spring) mechanically in series. This is like the opposite of car suspension (where you want to maintain constant position despite varying road) versus tensioner (where you want constant force regardless of position & d Position / d T.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

That’s interesting. Is that setup in use somewhere?

[@bpark10001]

@@ryantheridemechanic Only in machinery that I know of. It would be wise to check the tensioning mechanism of King Da Ka, which is I assume under much dynamic tension change.

[@davidhardman3353]

Hay Ryan, have just heard Steel Curtain is down for the whole season. Theres rumours its down to the structural integrity of the ride. How would they go about fixing this and who would be liable for it? Also what would the consequences be if they just continued to run the ride?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

Yikes. No clue where to start there. Need more info to even think about what’s next.

[@bfrancioso]

So, on Millennium Force, the lift has been slower since 2018 when they had to replace the original motor with the slower backup motor. Do you think they are still using the backup motor, or was it replaced, and they just didn't speed it back up to the original speed to save on wear and tear? I personally think it was replaced, but it wasn't sped back up to save on wear and tear

[@collinparsons3363]

The original lift speed was 6 m/s, and now it's 4.5 m/s. It would make no difference if the lift were sped up because the crew can't even hit the slower minimum interval. With the slower lift, it's 30 trains per hour, or 120 seconds. With the faster lift, it was 36 trains per hour or 100 seconds. They're only getting about 25 trains per hour now.

[@buzzpile]

How do they make the cable continues?

[@ThatRollerCoasterNerd]

I have a question why do some rides have a shake to them (not talking about profiling) but like Vekoma hang and bangs where it looks like the track is going to be butter smooth but then shake so violently, is there a way to fix them is it something with tolerances? What if they just decrease the tolerance Also, when wooden coaster manufacturers come in and do a retrack on something that isn't theirs, do they now become their ride legally?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

So most of vekomas shake is sure to wheel carrier design and track construction tolerance. It’s difficult to pinpoint though I know engineers that tried. For woodies the manufacturer is rarely called in to help retrace. Most of the time is a subcontractor recommended by the manufacturer. But regardless, most the time the manufacturer or the subcontractor only takes liability for the section that they completed, even then the liability. Is very short short as woody are constantly in need of repair and maintenance. Short warranty are called “tail warranty” as long as you can see the tail lights of the contractor is under warranty. More of a joke though.

[@ThatRollerCoasterNerd]

@@ryantheridemechanic I had to reread that to get the joke. It did get a good chuckle out of me

[@NewEnglandModz]

3:24 What's the point of the arm that rides on top of the chain. The part that lets the pushing dog through. Is that a sensor to tell the ride where the push dog is? If it is, why did they opt for that over a proximity sensor?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

The arm is to lift the dog under the train. It’s for times when the pusher has come up. And the train is not there yet. So the dogs don’t impact steel to steel. It’s an old idea most newer ones don’t have that part. Like a revision 0 idea.

[@Jillousa]

Do chains ever come off of a roller coaster like to come off a bicycle?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

If you’re talking about being refurbished, they are unbolted and removed annually. If you talking about a failure and it breaking off. I’ve never heard of one. The seat mounting is one of the strongest things on the entire ride.

[@TripleTSingt]

but how does the backwards free-fall on the vertical lift on Schwur des Kärnan work?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

I tried watching that for a while. It’s a simple release dog I’m guessing on that. But I can’t find a video with enough quality to see the fine track components to decipher how it actually works.

[@TripleTSingt]

@@ryantheridemechanic its also in a fucking tower, so it's kinda hard to see

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@TripleTSingt yea light on is harder than just recording it. I’d love to see it in person. I’m thinking reverse B&M drop dog for dive machines.

[@Scjheinen]

@@ryantheridemechanic I've riddin it a couple of times trying to figure it out. When the drop sequence starts the chain starts moving backwards really fast, some pneumatics are released under the train and the freefall is controlled by magnetic brakes. So my guess is that the chain running backwards releases the dog and something will keep it from engaging, then the brakes are released and the train drops into the magnetic brakes. Then the bar lowers into the lift again engaging the chaindog again and it will lift the train over the top.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@Scjheinen whatever it is, it’s critical that the coach can’t bite until motion has stopped. Otherwise you might break the chain dog.

[@adamtravan3946]

Vertical lift hills give me the giggles. 🤷‍♂️

[@charlie-rae4436]

Hey Ryan, I just went on Rita and they said they can't run a train with only 1 person if they're on the front row. Any chance you know why this is?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

Don’t know. Just a guess. Trains too light and will cause an over speed and shut the ride down. Maybe need an 4-8 person minimum. Best guess.

[@charlie-rae4436]

@@ryantheridemechanic I might have worded it badly, they can run with one person , they just said they can't be in the front row from what I understood thank you for the response. I might send you an email,I saw nemesis today with some bolts missing from the bottom of the loop,my friend looked back and they weren't there on opening day of it

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@charlie-rae4436 can’t sit in the front row but they can run 1 person. That’s so odd? I have no clue why that would be.

[@buzzpile]

I like the click click click

[@dindog22]

both rides seem to have pretty fast lifts. I think Skyrush won because I305 has an extra hundred feet of lift hill

[@ryantheridemechanic]

You know that’s a good point. I didn’t compare apples to apples on that. But sky rush seems faster. I’d have to break it down to a foot per second to compare.

[@TanookiOshawott64]

So I guess Invertigo has cable lifts

[@ryantheridemechanic]

I think all of the invertigo models by Vekoma have chain lifts. They just have a special catcher as the lifting attachment both invertigo and the bigger giant inverted boomerang will get a video as well these are quite special creatures.

[@schagerbaantje]

@@ryantheridemechanic if you want some specific shots of a GIB let me know, I'm going to be in Parque Warner Next month where they have a GIB in operation with the old style trains

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@schagerbaantje thanks I really appreciate the thought! The hardest pictures to come by from those rides are of the catch car because you pretty much have to be standing behind the ride zoomed in on it and it’s one of the things throughout most peoples videos and shots. people don’t really focus on it all because no one honestly cares except for people on this channel haha!! it’s a very interesting component. It has its own road up stop and guide wheels. It runs along a power bus and uses a hydraulic “v” to grab the train. If you could just take a couple zoomed in pictures, I would appreciate that !