How California's Environmental Mandates Led to Blackouts

[@deltasword1994]

Governor: everyone will have to drive electric cars. Also governor: we have no electricity.

[@Ezekio3160]

Hahaha 😂 great point

[@deltasword1994]

@D Smith sounds like making everyone walk everywhere but with extra steps.

[@peregrination3643]

Imagine being an environmentalist struggling in California financially and now you have to buy an expensive electric car, pay more for parts, pay more and have limitation in picking a mechanic (or do they have a measure to train all mechanics and get new equipment for electric cars?), generate a boom in giant batteries that no one knows how to get rid of safely, and have rolling blackouts for home and car.

[@marksuave25]

Lmao!!!!

[@Mythhammer]

What we need is more Unicorn fart power! ^^

[@ТомасАндерсон-в1е]

The saddest thing is that absolutely everyone here loses, except for the politicians. The politicians never lose, they never see actual negative consequences of their policies, if they get voted out they go on fat government pensions that are never cut.

[@nf4866]

Exactly! I almost can't blame them anymore. If they did try to change I'd imagine the others would try some kind of retribution, and if they don't change the continue to benefit. It reminds me of an interview I was watching with Micheal malice about kim jong un. Even if he suddenly grew a conscience, he'd be killed if he tried to change things. So, in a way, he's being held hostage as much as the north korean people, even if he doesn't know it. Except we don't even get to pretend newsom can time travel and never shits. He does have a bad haircut... So there's that.

[@SymmetricalDocking]

@Benaiah Ahmadinejad Please take your medication. You're hallucinating and spamming random comments.

[@MAC-vi7fy]

@Benaiah Ahmadinejad As a POC i can say, it ended a long time ago

[@michaellowe3665]

@Benaiah Ahmadinejad he is just a kleptocrat with no real agenda other than staying in power and stroking his own ego. That is the most appealing thing about him. He doesn't want to fundamentally change the country or take away rights from citizens as the major party candidates usually do. He just wants to play golf all the time and for people to say nice things about him. The people who insist that the greatest and most successful country in the world is deeply flawed and it must be changed scare me. It can always be improved, but these people just want to see it burn because they are too lazy to go after the things they want fairly and legally.

[@pasoundman]

@Benaiah Ahmadinejad Trump is purely a self-obsessed idiot on the make, get over it.

[@kennethfharkin]

This is a joke. Almost 20 years ago I was working the booth at a precision manufacturing trade show in the San Jose region of CA. Part way into the show the hall shut down 50% of the lights in the facility because of rolling brownouts. Apparently CA did not have enough electrical power supply to meet the demand and at the time there were complaints about the lack of new plants being built to meet demands. Apparently the nation, and CA in particular, had made it very difficult to actually build new power plants... go figure. Now, 20 years later, they have the same problem. What a surprise.

[@Scientist_Salarian]

Exactly. The energy problem 20 years ago was exactly why Gray Davis was recalled. California politicians have learned that voters have extremely short memories.

[@peterisawesomeplease]

This was very different from 20 years ago. On the hottest day in recorder California history a small percent of people lost power for a few hours. California has less rolling blackouts than most states just because we don't have as many storms knocking over power lines. Needing to shutdown power lines to prevent wild fires actually was a bigger contributer to people losing power than a lack of electric generation.

[@bsmithhammer]

Yup - this vid is full of fallacies. Not to mention it doesn't even accomplish what the title states - it doesn't actually explain "How California's Environmental Mandates Led to Blackouts," it just presents a few competing opinions/theories.

[@KevinSmith-qi5yn]

@@peterisawesomeplease This issue with that statement is that when recorded history starts keeps changing in order to make that statement. It was not the hottest day in California History, they just changed when recording history started to a cold period.

[@peterisawesomeplease]

@@KevinSmith-qi5yn We could argue about temperature records forever. But you are missing my point. Even if it was the 5th hottest or whatever. The outages so rare and so short that they just aren't worth the fuss. Especially given the benefits.

[@user-gj8wo8lq9s]

California is such a weird country.

[@traillesstravelled7901]

Yeah, I've heard that in other places, your rights are protected, pedophile don't make laws, housing is affordable, government is only half corrupt, you only have to work one job to survive, your not imprisoned in your own home, while convicted criminals are let out of jail,.......... idk sounds way to good to be true🤷

[@EdTowel-ww7yh]

@@traillesstravelled7901 but you're not describing California. LOL

[@Mythhammer]

We'd be better off if it was...:)

[@therambler3713]

Its like a giant experiment to see how liberals can ruin a country

[@tech-hilfeportal6611]

@@EdTowel-ww7yh r/woosh

[@SommersetStriker]

Nuclear power is the answer, and only ignorance and superstition holds it back.

[@supercunthunt7756]

"but.. But.. But.. Tschernobyl and Fukushima" Yeah both were great engineering fails and no wonder that accidents happen. Nuclear power with modern reactors would solve the energy crisis

[@waterzap99]

You won't drive around and put your kids in a Russian car from the 1950s. Just like modern cars, modern Nuclear plants are much safer. Technology has moved on.

[@JLE8811]

Top comment

[@jeremygrant1325]

Yuuup

[@pavelow235]

Tend to agree.

[@ryangrange938]

Nuclear really is the way forward at very least in the short term

[@GamerFrom1982]

even for cars. look into the nuclear powered satellite & it's miniature reactor

[@D3fcon141]

Nuclear is the future

[@Thecesarguy]

@@GamerFrom1982 maybe, hold off on the car for now. I d rather my car is not a nuclear bomb on wheels. I've played enough fallout to know it ain't a smart idea lol. Imagine a dirty bomb going off every time there's a car crash.

[@GamerFrom1982]

Senile Boomer kzbin.info/www/bejne/inuxe4yFYrSSqMk

[@Thecesarguy]

@@GamerFrom1982 I've looked at the video but there's a couple of problems why it may not be feasible. First the SNAP 10A reactor can only generate 500 W, while, say a tesla motor outputs 615 KW or a good ol fashion IC engine outputs 130 KW. I'm not saying the technology can't be improved, but it certainly isn't immediately implementable. At minimum a car would need at least 15KW to be driving at 60mph. But improving the reactor would mean bigger mass, and more nuclear material and a coolant system which produces nuclear waste. And radiation shielding like lead, which is really damn heavy. Now if your car needs to be fixed, it can't go to a normal mechanic, but probably a specialized facility that can dispose of the waste and can fix a nuclear reactor, meaning your mechanics need PhDs. And what health affects would sitting next to a gamma Ray machine for hours at a time lead to? Second, there's a huge problem with private individuals access to nuclear power, and government regulations. As it is, it's already hard enough for you to collect shiny rocks that make your Geiger go click without the fbi, nsa, epa and every other alphabet government organization, come looking to arrest you. But now, every citizen is allowed to own a nuclear reactor? Even if they were, would citizens even be legally allowed to modify their vehicle, since any modification could potentially lead to a meltdown? And there's the issue of crashes and potential "explosive" radioactive effects to put it mildly.

[@Scientist_Salarian]

“Renewables have not caused this issue. This is a resource issue, not a renewables issue.” That’s like saying, “My terrible job performance has not caused me to be broke. What’s caused me to be broke that I don’t have enough money.”

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

@SysPowerTools You didn't actually pay for your solar stuff.

[@danydady6851]

@SysPowerTools wait, did you just say that a good alternative to renewable energy is renewable energy?

[@matthewgibbs6886]

@SysPowerTools solar toxic waste batteries toxic waste generate 1 ton toxic waste to feel good about ones self

[@PeterDivine]

@@matthewgibbs6886 Not to mention that the conversion of power to stored energy is abhorrent. You've got an amazing battery right now if it stores even half the charge put into it.

[@jakadirnbek7141]

@@PeterDivine battery efficiencies are about 90%. There are also some loses when converting AC/DC.

[@conureron3792]

Good for other Americans can see the California “experiment”. Then make better, informed decisions.

[@nancydiehl296]

@Ronald Rollins The problem is that it’s ALL political. We are not making better informed decisions-ie defund the police, look at the rise in crime that’s already happened, yet the rest of the country has followed suite. Do you think Newson has been w/o electricity while people have literally been w/o nearly 2wls in Cali d/t blackouts-mainstream media doesn’t cover that. They can’t even store food in their fridges or cook. If it weren’t for food donations they would starve.

[@ericbess5917]

@@nancydiehl296 If you listen to the media, it sure seems like the rest of the country has followed suite. But the truth is that all of the cities defunding the police are run by liberals. As stupid as this is, the larger concern is always the push for crap like this at the federal level.

[@miguelle4756]

-Wants to create green sustainable energy -Destroy land to mine for rare earth metals -Build expensive renewable energy devices that only work with certain settings -Blackouts and expensive utility bills -Demand more Renewable Energy ... Me: **confuse screeching**

[@watchdealer11]

California is a prime example of why federalism is so important.

[@gbalfour9618]

Agree and not just from this but also the idea that farms in the northern part of the state can’t access water on their own land bc the state said that water has to go to the big cities.

[@Rugg-qk4pl]

Huh? Isn't federalism the idea that the states can do whatever they want, as long as the federal government doesn't say anything?

[@iironhide6209]

Rugg0064 Well kinda not really. The state and fed share policy areas like education. However, some things are for the state to decide while other things are for the fed. The federal govt is superior to the states when they conflict though.

[@iironhide6209]

Rugg0064 so if the fed wants to, it can stop California’s lawmakers

[@jimlovesgina]

The problem with federalism is that there is nowhere to go when they get it catastrophically wrong. At least when the states get it wrong, you can move to another state. Nothing says failure more than when your entire tax-base moves the fuck out.

[@psychoh13]

The grid is going to become more reliable by adding more unreliable sources of energy! That's genius!

[@KennethFKlein]

No kidding. Welcome to Comifornia

[@damondziewiontkowski5623]

California: A masterclass in how NOT to do things. Period.

[@robertmontgomery7158]

Solar suffers from heat. Ask anyone who is knowledgeable and they will tell you solar panel performance drops off the higher the temperature

[@Jimraynor45]

I also notice that many solar panels on top of homes are covered with a lot of dust and I've heard it can reduce the efficiency of the panels by 40% or more. I mean, how often are people going on their roof to clean their panels?

[@docdaven]

@SysPowerTools - Technically speaking, that was the only thing he said that was correct (storage density of batteries is 100X less than that of most fossil fuels - one of the best FFs is gasoline at 150X more energy dense than the best Li battery made today).

[@peterisawesomeplease]

Not at grid scale. Yes heat reduces panel efficiency but in California(unlike say the tropics) heat nearly always means clear skies. This more than makes up for the drop in panel efficiency.

[@johnames6430]

it drops off a small amount

[@lightcaesar]

Typical Californian: "The sun sets? That's just a right wing conspiracy theory!"

[@patrickbateman783]

😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😅

[@pasoundman]

The simple truth is that all renewable requires backup that traditional generation including nuclear doesn't. The cost of the backup that 'renewable' needs to function reliably isn't factored in to the economics. So, renewables are actually subsidised by baseload generation. This is a ridiculous subsidy. All renewable should pay for its own backup, not expect the grid to do it for them. The amount of batteries required to do this is insane !

[@jaydog9508]

I always love how they show the cooling towers like they are a source of pollution, that is water vapor, not any type of dirty pollution!

[@jcampbell2481]

Yeah, the media loves to fool the people. However if people were not so stupid, but their's no cure for stupid.

[@mrpumperknuckles1631]

It’s that way with coal power plants as well thanks to the advance technology that filters out the pollution 99% the United States actually known for some of the most advance power plants in the world… it’s just our own government refuse to give any credit to us… my friend showed me when I used to work with him at a coal power plant…

[@daviddo658]

Germany could've warned California about this.

[@fortusvictus8297]

Who says they didn't? GER now imports huge amounts of hydrocarbons from Russia...Cali loves Russia so they are probably already working something out.

[@dmhendricks]

I think pretty much any non-liberal - scientist, engineer or otherwise - saw this coming. It is never about what is best for constituents - it is always about politics and virtue signaling. It's much easier to fool someone than to convince them that they are being fooled.

[@nanochase]

The DOE's refusal to even allow the testing of new nuclear plant designs is irresponsible and has held back decades of advances. Where's McConnell on actually meaningful deregulation?

[@myates4652]

Not true. The NRC just cleared the NuScale SMR reactor last month and the DOE supports this advancement. SMR's will be manufactured and bring down the cost of nuclear significantly. A real game changer, too bad so few know about it.

[@s0nnyburnett]

McConnel is the biggest RINO around.

[@gomertube]

@@myates4652 Trump admin is keeping it quiet because they don't need the headache right now of trying to re-explain nukes to the country. But if he wins then at some point he'll roll it out. I hope the tech is for real; I can't bear the thought of living in the "shadow" of more windmills and solar panels.

[@myates4652]

@@gomertube Agreed, but their are many that will hinder the deployment, fossil fuel and renewable lobbyists and their advocates for starters. I am not convinced that they will be able to stop it, though. I hope they will not.

[@mattlane2282]

The only one willing to ensure a nuclear plant is the government if you want government out of things you don't get nuclear plants

[@mix3k818]

If we're going to phase out fossil fuels, then we'd have to start thinking about nuclear energy a bit more first. There's no way we can make renewables powerful enough to sustain all energy without making ordinary citizens themselves use less of it.

[@dmhendricks]

That's a lot of upvotes for absolutely predicting the future. I'm afraid to ride on and airplane that is fission powered, even with a lead apron and nut cup. Still, in the medium term, I agree that fission is the best choice to replace fossil power plants (as well as aging nuclear plants, which aren't nearly as safe as current generations). In the long term, hopefully fusion (or maybe we'll come up with something even better).

[@ceomyr]

Phadke seems incredibly manipulative and intellectually dishonest here. If green energy was so great it would have been able to supply the needed backup power and it would have no inconsistency. The fact that green energy does require back up power or storage is a negative, a weakness to green energy production. Politics that disincentivizes other sources of power has caused these blackouts because green energy has flaws. Green energy cannot be the solution by itself UNTIL it has more storage (and land) and that storage (and land) is highly costly. I wish Reason was a lot more willing to grill Phadke over these points. I'm not yet convinced by the argument that bad electrical grids are to blame for California's fires. That hasn't been established or proven here in the video, so it seems like an allegation out of left field. The design of the electrical grid also seems irrelevant to the source of power. The electrical grid would be going through many of the same areas to reach places that need electricity regardless of whether the power source was wind, solar, nuclear, oil, natural gas, or coal.

[@suleskos.2743]

The fires are not only a direct result of arsonists, they are a result of decades of dead stop forestry management by environmentalists in bed with unscrupulous politicians who have allowed the tinderbox to increase exponentially so that when arsonists and lightning did strike, (and dont be fooled, it was both, never let a good crisis go to waste), there was no way they could be put out with any amount of normalcy. The environmentalists embedded in our government would fight the major power company from clearing trees and brush and the like, at every turn so when wires did start whipping around there was a lot more tinder to easily light. The aging infrastructure was as such not only due to top level officials neglect but also due to the fact that California forced them to invest millions of dollars in green energy. That money had to be diverted from somewhere, so maintenance was it. It was all a recipe for planned disaster.

[@TheHolySC]

Now with more electric cars, imagine the even increased demand on the power grid.

[@mattlane2282]

Well I'm not for any of this if the cars were only allowed to charge at night assuming they didn't remove all their fossil fuel power generation then as long as you're not putting more demand on at peak you'd actually make it more efficient grid because you could allow power plants base load power plants to continue to run at night when electricity demand drops off a cliff

[@redtsun67]

California politicians really be like "some of you may suffer, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make"

[@dwayne7356]

And now they want to mandate electric cars. How do you think that will work out ?

[@zolikoff]

When nothing except electric cars are legal to be sold, the new car market will basically vanish. No cars = no carbon footprint from cars. It will "help the environment". It just won't help civilization.

[@deth3021]

Solar energy doesn t have trouble providing in the heat? Since when, the efficeny of the solar goes down with heat, or has that changed?

[@docdaven]

That is true. The hybrid solar (where heat is ferried away via piping to drive steam turbines) configuration is better than just PV alone. That guy is clearly a buffoon - he not only has zero clue about PV solar, he has no clue that taxing FF plants is a burden on the consumer (another tax on the consumer) - companies simply pass the tax along via rate hikes.

[@supercunthunt7756]

@@docdaven lol yeah this guy oa an absolute douchebag. Ita like the statemament "ah everything is okay, we just need more battery capacity" Absolutely no plan about anything but talks like he is an engineer in this field

[@Dleefrlula]

@@docdaven I don’t know a ton about it but I thought Solar panels Peter out after about 30 years and are a huge biohazard at that point(or before if they are cracked)....? I also read that a wind turbine could not generate enough power in its entire life to offset the amount of power it took to build it.

[@zachlarsen8996]

We have nuclear power plants older than 40 years running in the state of CA. How long do you think these batteries will last, 10 15 years? What a waste of money and resources.

[@gorilanator]

Simple Logic? in California? That's asking too much.

[@Mythhammer]

They are using their ideology, rather than engineering and reality to determine their policy. Reality doesn't care about your feelings or intentions.

[@robertmontgomery7158]

Don’t forget that there is no recycling of lithium. And as mentioned, lithium batteries destroys the environment and the poor people who live in these areas.

[@Xenthoid]

and the toxic elements in the solar panels themselves. Those panels have to be replaced and too my knowledge there isn't a great way to recycle them in an evo-friendly way.

[@Rugg-qk4pl]

We're boned!

[@mikej3952]

That’s what I was going to add. People like Phadke just think more batteries is more better. No thought to what happens and what we do with those batteries as they and when they degrade.

[@docdaven]

@@Brent-ln9bc - Only about 5% are recycled.

[@peterisawesomeplease]

@@docdaven Which will increase if it every becomes a meaningful part of the expense of producing batteries.

[@cobalt-bishop]

Not a single Californian I talk to approves of Newsom. I'm proud to see his recall effort flourish.

[@abrahamghannam2137]

Such a beautiful sight of all those windmills and solar panels it just brings out California look at all the beauty

[@robauernie5442]

Lmfao, California, Venezuela, cuba all have the same problem.

[@samuelpeters8523]

Don’t forget about North Korea :)

[@JoHn-gi1lb]

and that problem is called socialism lul

[@mrpumperknuckles1631]

Biggest problem is that batteries always break down and become useless within less than 15 years…

[@reidsmith9011]

As someone in working in the renewable energy industry, this has been a difficult but necessary realization to come to; green energy can't exactly solve all our problems or meet our energy load demands at the moment. While transitioning to renewables is very important, it has become clear that advancement and further investment into nuclear is needed to at least provide a consistent base load at all times for the grid. I think the ideal combo is using nuclear energy for centralized, utility scale applications and to have solar/wind for more distributed applications like community, commercial and residential scale energy production

[@johnbehneman1546]

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

[@christianitis]

Pajeet knows nothing, as usual

[@robertmontgomery7158]

He is a mouthpiece

[@christianitis]

@@pedropradacarciofi2517 carbono

[@roys8870]

He was fascinated by his own voice. He thinks he sounds very smart.

[@davidsimpson7373]

The cause was the renewables. Coal, gas, hydro, nuclear do not need backup because they are reliable. Solar and wind are weather dependent and therefore require 100% redundant backup if you want to avoid blackouts. Without 100% redundancy as in California, renewables lead to blackouts. Pretty simple.

[@douggeary2709]

Nuclear power technology is amazing now. People just hear nuclear and think of the scene from Terminator when she is looking through the fence.

[@wli2718]

most of us dont even know what ia blackout is. California is special, they are in a class of their own.

[@michaeld954]

Yet it's illegal to be 100% off grid in California

[@bogeybichon7000]

Really? Why? What is the justification?

[@devinmanderson]

Justification is major Public Untility companies circle jerking the politicians.

[@bogeybichon7000]

@SysPowerTools Good, but I am still struggling to understand how any government can mandate that its residents to be part of the power grid. There are lots of remote locations were being on the grid is not even an option.

[@docdaven]

@@bogeybichon7000 - Power & Corruption is why.

[@docdaven]

@@bogeybichon7000 - Only by blatant violation of the Constitution can they do such a mandate. Like I said before: Corruption.

[@schertz8]

Thank you for being balanced. You show both fairly. The sad part is the left seems oblivious to logic.

[@Random-rt5ec]

The California experts didn't know solar panels are useless when the skies are full of smoke from poorly managed forestry burning.

[@andreungerer3531]

"Tax the polluters"? Seriously. So taxing the poor countries that have to mine the minerals used in the renewables used by rich countries. You see, there lies the problem.

[@JJSmalls]

I'm over here living in a fly over state and I was able to run my AC all summer. Thanks for the sacrifice California!

[@gregoryeverson741]

Newsom said to turn the AC unit to 78F, lol, what is the point of running it then?

[@psychoh13]

Basically the pro-renewable guy is saying "We closed down coal, oil, and gas fire plants and replaced them with solar and wind power, but it's not because of the failure of those solar and wind plants. They worked as expected and when they didn't deliver power because they don't deliver power with the wrong weather conditions, it's the reduced park of non-renewable plants that failed to deliver enough power." Yeah no it's still a failure of renewables because you reduced the backup power capacity that uses non-renewables.

[@C_R_O_M________]

Aside from production environmental impact, wait till the moment that all these monstrosities, the wind turbines, the panels, the batteries, reach their time for being recycled! We’ll see how “environmental” right there.

[@gregoryeverson741]

you cant recycle this crap

[@michaellowe3665]

I drove through palm springs several years ago. Of the thousands of windmills they had cluttering their landscape, one was running that day. It was spinning fast because there was plenty of wind. They just had the rest of them shut down because they couldn't use the power at the time. They are a huge waste of resources.

[@peterisawesomeplease]

Why is that a waste? Wind is now cheaper than basically any other power source depending on location.

[@michaellowe3665]

@@peterisawesomeplease its a huge waste. They didn't need to be built or installed if they aren't going to use them. The factories that made them dont run on unicorn farts. They run on electricity that mainly comes from coal. I have been to one in Chicago that just makes the stamped sheet metal cores for the windings. They were 18 feet in diameter. They could make a couple of car bodies with the metal just in those cores. Thats only a small part of the complete assembly. They also have to be maintained and eventually replaced. A lot of money is wasting away for no power being generated. The worst part is that they look like shit. The whole town was covered in these things and has to live in the flickering light of their shadows.

[@MollyOKami]

*How an Environmental-Fascist Solves a Problem:* "I want you to create a technology that is not possible with our current understanding of physics, to a degree that is completely unheard of, in a time frame that is impossible without Divine Intervention…at no cost to me."

[@larrybud]

My old boss (CIO) goes in for an interview. They kept asking him if he could get this particular IT project of their ontime and underbudget. He said "That depends - how shitty do you want it?"

[@Swordofswordom]

Fast + Good Quality = Expensive Fast + Cheap = Poor Quality Cheap + Good Quality = Slow Fast + Cheap + Good Quality = Get stuffed 🤣

[@RalphEllis]

He does not mention that adding energy storage is incredibly expensive. And Greeneys are saying renewables are cheap - while forgetting the cost of those (non-existent) storage facilities. The UK needs 5,000 gwh of storage, to be renewable. The UK actually has 10 gwh. That is the problem. R

[@gbalfour9618]

Let’s see, nuclear power is clean, cheap, reliable. CA: but I like this instead... wind/solar. Poisonous, expensive, unreliable.

[@gbalfour9618]

How is it wrong?? To date there were 2 nuclear incidents (Chernobyl, Fukushima) And since Chernobyl no one has died from nuclear... solar is poisonous in the form of carcinogens like: crystalline silicon, amorphous silicon, cadmium telluride, copper indium selenide, gallium arsenide. Just to name a few. If any of those gets into the drinking water then it worse then a house made out of asbestos sitting in a sea of mercury. Wind has killed more birds then any coal plant has. Then we have the issue addressed in the video no battery to store the power from the wind and sun and the issue that the wind and sun don’t don’t shine or blow all the time or when it is needed the most. Where as 4th gen power plants are far more efficient, clean, and safe. I’d like to reach stage 1 civilization before I kick off and going with solar and wind is depressing not progressing. So do please tell me again how I’m wrong?

[@mattlane2282]

@@gbalfour9618 why don't you go look up the cancer rates of Indian point in New York pre-nuclear and post nuclear I know you won't believe me so I'll just tell you pre nuclear below national average post nuclear well above national average yeah nuclear is totally safe

[@gbalfour9618]

@Matt Lane It isn’t my place to do your work for you. You need to look up your own argument to counter mine and present it to me not me looking up your argument, means you have no argument. Also cancer rates and more nuclear power usage are not causal; this is the prime example of correlation vs causation. Looking at data one could also argue that the more nuclear power we use the longer we live bc since the 50s life expectancy has gotten longer and we use more nuclear power then we used before then.

[@gbalfour9618]

@Ironmxiden I am the first to want to get away from coal. It’s dirty and dangerous but to say you’d rather kill birds then use nuclear power is a fails dichotomy bc power plants don’t kill birds and many times they provide habitats for migrating birds as many power plants have flood areas for their water. As for expense if you look just at kilowatt hours power plants and solar come in at about the same but if you take in the full life cycle of both solar is far more expensive and panels have a far shorter life span. The glass used in solar panels isn’t the same kind of glass that we use in windows; window glass is silicon dioxide, where glass for solar panels is the compounds I listed earlier. This is also that shifting again; so it’s ok to have 3rd world countries make our solar panels poison their own people just so others can have clean energy? This is also why solar panels can compete with nuclear they are being made in China for pennies and the workers are being poisoned, but I guess that’s ok bc we don’t have to know or see or look at them.

[@mattlane2282]

@@gbalfour9618 I made my point, I know my stats you can go verify them if you like... I said cancer rates AROUND THE AREA THE PLANT WAS BUILD... not the national average... it was COMPARED to national average... Cause was the plant... IIRC it was upticks in thyroid cancer and the like... ones attributed to certain radioactive isotopes from... nuclear power. by all means go live near a nuclear reactor...

[@WalterHildahl]

Renewables are the problem, blackout weren't a problem before renewables

[@timtrainage]

100% correct

[@boulderbash19700209]

Anything out of UC Berkeley today is worth less than horse crap.

[@gregoryeverson741]

horse crap sells at 50$ a ton

[@sn99cobra]

What does the market say about what customers are willing to pay vs the cost of creating consistent power via "eco power"?

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Almost nobody actually gives a shit about anything but the bill.

[@Mythhammer]

Who cares about the market? This is a government protected monopoly.

[@peterisawesomeplease]

California voters have consistently supported increasing the share of renewable power on the grid. The news makes the black outs sound scary but they cause fewers hours of lost power than snow storms and the like in other states. Most years we have no rolling blackouts and when they do happen its for a couple of hours over the entire year. This year most of the blackouts where not caused by a lack of electricity production but because of shutting off the grip to prevent sparks starting wildfires.

[@Mythhammer]

@@peterisawesomeplease And the grid wouldn't produce nearly as many sparks, if it had been updated and properly maintained. But the money for that was diverted to wind and solar. Just to appease certain factions...

[@peterisawesomeplease]

@@Mythhammer Oh definitly more should have been spent on transmission. But actually California ended up saving money due to our renewable mandates. That probably will not hold true as we get closer to 100% renewable we should have just invested the savings in the grid.

[@ohdude6643]

People! Learn the different between a Mathematician/Scientist and an Engineer. For the Mathematician/Scientist, the phrase "in the long run if" or "given enough time" or "for a sufficient amount of" are code phrases that can be thrown away in the argument without much concern. But the Engineer will want to make that phrase more concrete. So concrete that "in long run if we add more batteries" is converted in "how many batteries to we really need for that", "given enough time" is transformed in "how many hours, days or years are necessary for that" etc. And we do that we start to see the details. And with details the possible problems. And with the problems we find the initial faulty arguments.

[@chasingsunsets87]

Also they need to learn about fake degrees from countries like india and those places obsession with Californians.

[@tinytoyboxfilms5710]

“Tax the polluters...” No, that cost is simply passed on to the consumer from the energy producer.

[@willhooke]

But that would be extremely undermining to the Green ideal It's sad such intelligent people are so deceived by this renewable nonsense

[@andreungerer3531]

Come to South Africa and see what is blackouts.

[@psyxypher3881]

There's two solutions here: encourage creation of better batteries or just use Nuclear Energy. But the left thinks that they can make do with what they have.

[@zachlarsen8996]

Why do we need back up power in the first place? Could it be because we stopped building reliable sources like Nuclear energy and opted for wind farms? Greenies will do anything to avoid thinking about the limitations of their preferred energy sources.

[@anastasiab9506]

Solar panels are good for personal family homes and office buildings, but not for the powergrid.

[@larrybud]

They aren't even very good for that. Takes years to recoup initial costs. Otherwise everybody would have them.

[@mattlane2282]

It's not the initial cost that has to be recouped they're not good for the grid either because you are again producing electricity when no one needs it and lacking electricity when you're using it all you did was take a large-scale problem and dot it all over the place

[@larrybud]

@@mattlane2282 Who says the initial cost doesn't have to be recouped? That's the main selling point of anything energy related.

[@mattlane2282]

@@larrybud Eh, misread things XD

[@davidhilderman]

Best quote "the constant babbling about batteries is an embarrassing failure to understand arithmetic"

[@WPSent]

Molten salt thorium reactors are the best shot at solving the current energy crisis. None of the issues with "normal" nuclear power. Safer, cheaper fuel. They should be the backbone of our energy grid with renewables bouncing around the edges. Or hell, the small form factor "normal" nuclear reactors. Just for the love of all things don't expect solar and wind to provide the bulk of our power.

[@docdaven]

NRC is in the way of thorium reactors, sadly. They love to lie about how these reactors cannot be built , yet one was built in 1960 in ... California (back when the average IQ was >60).

[@spacefacts1681]

I support this wholeheartedly but honestly even current Gen III+ designs are fine; the problem is they keep building one at a time, completely bespoke, and relying on private financing which blows out the cost significantly just because of the expected interest payments. If you had governments commissioning a slew of the same type of power plant using public financing % rates then it becomes plenty competitive with the rest of the generation options and gets built relatively quickly too. This is roughly what happened in France with their nuclear maximalist Messmer Plan that took them from 20 to 80% nuclear power.

[@samuils]

I like how you say "government incentivized old plants to close through burdensome regulations," that is not an incentive, that is force.

[@stefnirk]

"Those fossil fuel technologies have trouble performing in the heat" what the hell is he talking about. How can he call himself an energy analyst with such a low knowledge of fossil fuel energy generation? They have no problem performing in hot conditions they just loose effectiveness, this is one one the first things you learn in thermodynamics.

[@peterfmodel]

The same thing occurred in South Australia. Germany has avoided blackouts by not closing any of their coal fired power in the last 10 years, which is why reason that Germany has not reduced its CO2 emissions. You can make winds or solar work, but it requires the ability to store power. The only way of currently doing this for base load is water based, pump water uphill and let it down when its needed. This is expensive and requires a lot more wind and solar, but while this is being prepared closing down coal, gas and nuclear will result in blackouts. I am surprised at the denial of reality occurs concerning this topic.

[@kimmer6]

The Helms Pumped Storage facility works great. But enviro bureaucrats deny permits for new reservoirs.

[@FifthConcerto]

I need to read "Apocalypse Never" again. I've been promoting the heck out of it. It's a great read, and highly informative.

[@phoenix5054]

FifthConcerto It’s about what?

[@MLA..]

Ban air-conditioning.

[@BrianLottermann]

Everybody needs to see this. There seems to be this widely held belief that there are no downsides to solar/wind energy, and if you're not 100% aboard the "green" energy train, you're an ignoramus.

[@Pieh0]

"This is a resource issue, not a renewables issue" No one is saying renewables CAUSED it, they're saying that solely relying on it CAUSED the RESOURCE ISSUE you just brought up. Political spin at its most obvious. "Critics like Shellenberger are distorting the facts in service of their preconceived biases" Said the person who was distorting the facts in service of their preconceived biases...

[@kaui4896]

Everyone needs to do as thier told!! Except for governor Gavin, he can drives a gas powered f150 and run his electric through the roof, while Everyone in California is to do what they are told!!! 🤣 lmao shity deals for California 👎🏽👎🏽👎🏽

[@RespawnRestricted]

Nuclear deaths per 10twh .2-1.2 Hydroelectric deaths per 10twh 1.0-1.6 That's for the people who say nuclear is more dangerous then hydro

[@dougontheotherchannel3078]

Mr. Derka Derka can take his "tax the polluters" attitude right back to the quick-e-mart he came from

[@peregrination3643]

I had a college textbook that fully described the lifespan costs of fossil fuels and then said nothing about the lifespan costs of renewables. I had no idea we didn't have to build, maintain, or dispose of any physical materials when we used solar and wind. Probably too inconvenient to consider how unsustainable the physical development of renewable energy. Kind of like the optics of being green in a country like the US while ignoring how we displace environmental costs to other parts of the world. I can it sweeping the dirt under the third-world rug. I used to say, "Table solar and wind and boost R&D to find better materials and get more effective use" but the more I learn the more I think it's a battle with physics that has little room to grow.

[@dagobertkrikelin1587]

The efficiency of today's photovoltaic solar panels is so low that during their lifetime they will not produce as much energy as it took to make them. It makes more climate sense to just burn the oil for power instead.

[@spacefacts1681]

Nah photovoltaic panels do have an EROEI of well over 1, but it's not that much higher (5 to 7?) and when you add in batteries/backup peakers the total system EROEI drops further so it's a very dangerous proposition to assume that's all you need for high technology civilization

[@Mr539forgotten]

"Preconceived notions" Yes, the preconceived notion that we shouldn't have daily blackouts.

[@TheTektronik]

Identity politics at play here.

[@dugundug1336]

Q. How many liberals does it take to change a lightbulb? A. none. they sit around in pitch dark convincing themselves its bright as day.

[@noblephoenix6151]

Jorgensen 2020!

[@motor2of7]

Then let’s agree to never let Gavin Nauseum become president.

[@coolstuffunboxings1127]

They need solar energy in individual households instead of government run Powerplants.

[@brewmaster95060]

NO it does not pay for itself. government force to make one buy "right" healthcarethe "right" energy the "right" car is fascism the correct product is discovered by markets NOT legislation or executive orders.

[@moepow8160]

A CA grid operator said, paraphrased, "It's not a renewable energy issue its a back up issues" If you are a Believer in renewable energy then you must also belive that a backup system in a renewable system must be an important part of that system. What is a pro- renewable believers idea of a back up system, and where does it come from? Is it a group of stand-by wind turbines, a huge bank of extra solar panels, extra hydro- generators, etc...So far all renewable are at various degrees of reliability. The only somewhat reliable back up for renewable energy is batteries, I say somewhat because the technology does not exist for reliable batter storage. Batteries can only store so much and don't last long before needing to be recharged. How is not having a back up system in a renewable electricital grid not a renewable problem? Of course it is. I am all for renewable energy, but suddenly replacing all our electrical needs with renewables is a reckless idea. The two system of power producing should be over lapped so there is no interruption in the power we need.

[@christianitis]

Bruh moment

[@bombero3368]

The irony is that by going green could produce more carbon emissions...where do the materials come from when making electric cars?

[@strategicgamingwithaacorns2874]

"Renewables are inherently unreliable." Geothermal & Hydroelectic: "Are we a joke to you?"

[@nicholashaines4136]

May i see the affordable scale able non impacting versions of these please, oh wait, they don't exist, sure they can be good, if in the right spots, which are limited, and have a whole list of other side effects (can't navigate a dam, needs upkeep) or you know, build like 3 mega nuclear plants and keep the landscape largely untouched

[@thepowerofozone]

"you have to pay your fair share of whatever damage you do" - Wha if the damage doesn't really exist? And who gets to decide what is someone else's "fair share"?

[@Arms1234]

When the state government have to hire an Indian to defend their point you know that they have no argument.

[@mattlane2282]

Professional scammer

[@quiltqueen4318]

Does anyone else see the irony in an Indonesian man attempting to fix AMERICA'S pollution and energy issues vs. his country of origin? Just curious, did his ideas work when he tried them in India?....that's what I thought! If these are the things California is doing and that state looks like a total crap hole; no thank you on trying it out on the rest of the country. HARD PASS!

[@MrLionpaws]

PG&E spent decades wasting already allocated funds for general high voltage rural wireline maintenance on stock buybacks and executive bonuses. THOSE EXECUTIVES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR FIRES WHICH KILLED PEOPLE as well as the rolling blackouts. The ought to be prosecuted and jailed.

[@owouwu9032]

Do what Britain did to store energy. Use 2 lakes at differing elevation and a hydro plant between them during less use and more surplus pump water up into the high lake and in peak usage let it back through the plan into the second lake to generate energy to meet peak usage.

[@ForestGigaChad34]

So the goal is to use less resources to reduce carbon footprint. But build more wind and solar which reduces carrying capacity of the land, and build more batteries which requires more mining in countries that have horrible human rights conditions and bad environmental records. So glad central planning our energy is working so well

[@malcolmsmith6683]

In my area of northern california, PG&E intentionally turned off the power to prevent fires

[@malcolmsmith6683]

Yeah, we were warned ahead of time. It was whenever it got windy

[@SuperTuffgirl]

Malls were closed, bars were closed, theatre’s were closed, schools were closed, some restaurants were closed permanently, churches were closed, some retail stores were closed permanently such as Pier One, so it makes no sense there was more electricity being used.

[@resistencialiberal9555]

This people are insane, you will have to expand on over 50%, the capacity to have enough energy to store at night, and the storage of energy is insanely expensive. That project would bankrupt the state.

[@peterisawesomeplease]

California is crazy rich. It also understands that hard projects tend to generate more wealth over the long run than they cost. Ambition takes a little bit of insanity but its powerful.

[@Nuvendil]

This is the issue with renewables no one likes to point out in typical discussions: the need for large ammount of overbuilding. The more of your grid renewables make up, the more you need to overbuild them to compensate for inefficiencies. Which only exacerbates the biggest issue: land use. And anyone who needs an illustration of that, look at a satelite view of the Solar Star farm with a max capacity of a little over 700 megawatts. Then look at the McGuire Nuclear Plant in NC with a capacity of over 2,000 megawatts. Or for an apples to apples comparison, the Bhadla Solar Park vs McGuire. Both produce roughly the same but one occupies 20 sq mi, the other occupies 1.2 sq mi.

[@EC-rd9ys]

I've looked into being truly off the grid with solar and the cost of a battery that would make that feasible is astronomical even for one house, even with them being 90% cheaper than before.

[@erikkovacs3097]

It's so disingenuous to say "oh battery cost came down so many percent in 10 years" implying in 10 more years it will come down just as much. You start to run into physical, chemical and economical limits and I'm not sure people forced to buy electric cars are going to appreciate also being charge 10X more on their electrical bills.

[@peterisawesomeplease]

The cost of powering an electric vehicle is much less than the cost of gas. The problem is the expense of the cars. Electricity(even from renewable sources) is dirt cheap compared to gasoline.

[@SteveB-nx2uo]

the real answer is thorium, nuclear, hydrogen, cold fusion. renewable sound nice, and recycle poorly, require mining, battery networks, and are unreliable.

[@luism5514]

Batteries increase the cost of power, in addition to the cost of solar. They always leave out the battery costs. Just build nuclear and natural gas until we get fusion.

[@orionstark]

This is why you need nuclear power and green hydrogen production integrated into the power grid. Renewables need to be a supplement to our atomic backbone.

[@geowa3724]

Amol Phadke claiming solar generation has no issues with heat is wrong. Efficiency decreases with heat and increases in the cold.

[@souchoysaeteurn5211]

I honestly don't understand the science behind nuclear vs clean energy. All I know is california is the only state that is suffering from a crap ton of blackouts. So the problem always comes from the top