How can I test myself in ear training? Am I ready to move on? - Improvise for Real

[@ImproviseForReal]

Thanks for watching my video! In IFR we tend to minimize the focus on testing because we think it's so much more important to just create a robust, joyful and beautiful music practice in your life. But sometimes it really can be hard to tell whether you've truly mastered a given set of sounds or not, so I hope this video helps you do that. Please let me know if you have any questions about it, or if you need help applying these concepts to whatever you're working on currently. Thanks and please remember to subscribe!

[@saptwarshisaha8894]

Thanks David! That was really helpful. I try to first remember the sound of the first 4 notes and then progressively add one note at a time and I find that doing it this way, it's not that hard to memorize the sound of the outside notes. But I was only doing step 1 of the three you mentioned. And now that I've heard it, it seems only right that I should take the method to it's conclusion and practice the other 2 steps as well. Thanks for such an insightful video :)

[@ImproviseForReal]

@@saptwarshisaha8894 Excellent Saptwarshi! You're going about it exactly the right way. I can't wait to hear what you find when you add these other layers as well. Enjoy each moment! - David

[@jms1016.0]

In my experience, there definitely is a difference, like mentioned in the sing the numbers course itself, between slow meditative listening and melodic, rhythmic listening. And although I can feel the general differences between 1-4 pretty easily, if played slow, I have a harder time paying attention to these feelings as they move quickly, and that's why I've been staying on module 1 for now. To get a better sense of melody.

[@jean-marcsabourin2477]

Since I have begun this type of work (sing the numbers) my way of thinking music has changed and I feel more creative. Thanks David, Great video !

[@ImproviseForReal]

That's wonderful Jean-Marc! And you're such a beautiful player. The world is a better place when you're making music!

[@jean-marcsabourin2477]

@@ImproviseForReal Thank you David !

[@vinnyoorsprong62]

m 2 ;-)

[@mikeleffler6051]

Thanks for putting this out David! Very helpful for me.

[@ImproviseForReal]

Thank you Mike! Your chord melody practice is also a fantastic complement to your ear training practice. I hope it's going well. If I can help in any way, don't hesitate to ask.

[@themathguy]

Hi! I'm someone who took a few months of piano way back in high school (now decades ago), and has recently gotten a renewed interest in learning to play something (I saw a KZbin video from a guy in Australia who built an instrument out of PVC pipes and I liked how it sounded so much I just _had_ to build one -- but now I've got to figure out how to play what I've built!). The thing I noticed about the piano training I took was that it taught you how to read notes on a piece of sheet music and play those same keys on the piano (rote memorization), but seemed to do nothing for my ability to imagine a tune in my head (either a popular song I got stuck in my head or just an idea for a melody) and just know what notes I should play. I always had to resort to the "hunt and peck" method which was slow and error-prone. I feel like ear-training is what I would need in order to develop that ability. My PVC pipes are in E flat major, so I've been trying to transpose whatever I want to be able to play so it's all in that same key. Thank you for making this series! I've been looking at different ear training materials I might buy, and IFR seems like a good fit for what I'm trying to do.

[@ImproviseForReal]

This is great timing because we're starting a new group of students in our ear training workshop tomorrow! Here's a link to all of the information if you would like to join us: improviseforreal.com/products/ear-training-for-musical-creativity-workshop

[@themathguy]

I've decided to go ahead and buy "sing the numbers 1". Who knew 3-1 was the "doorbell" sound? 😂 I immediately recognized it and had to google it to see if I was right. We hear these sounds all around us, but never think about it.

[@calcal5135]

Hi David I really like IFR approach which, at its core, is about the supremacy of the ear in music. The one objection that I have - and it is substantial - is to the emphasis on learning to associate pitches with numbers in the harmonic environment. I play my second instrument totally by ear. When learning to play this instrument I intentionally refused to learn where a single note, whether named by letter or by number relative to the key, was on the instrument. All I want to know is where the pitches are (not the notes, which are names for the pitches) and what sounds are available. In doing this I bypass the mental clutter of “thinking” about notes and instead focus directly on “feeling” the pitches available. This approach is about developing an immediate sense of the entire chromatic palette of pitches and choosing in real time which I want to hear. I know this is the goal of IFR as well but I think that the focus on notes (in this case, numbered pitches) is a distraction that can produce mental clutter that could later be difficult to eliminate once learned. I have found that unlearning is much more difficult than learning. It is the primary reason why I can play my second instrument by ear (which I have only been playing for 6 years) but can not yet play my first instrument by ear (which I have played for 40 years). All that said, I love what you and the IFR team are doing.

[@ImproviseForReal]

Wow, what an interesting path to choose! I love the idea of learning an instrument entirely by ear, and purposely choosing not to think about anything other than the sound of each note and your memory of where to find it. The reason why we take the extra step in IFR of noticing how each note relates to the overall key of the music is because IFR isn't just a creative activity to promote free expression. It is certainly that, but it's also a way of studying music and discovering the rich and beautiful sounds of western harmony. To explore those sounds in any kind of an organized way, we need some way to visualize these sounds and talk about them. But you're right that in the moment of improvising, the ideal experience is to simply close your eyes, listen to your own imagination and play what you hear. If you're able to do that to your own satisfaction using your current approach, then I think you've already found your treasure. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your unique approach! - David

[@calcal5135]

Improvise For Real. Thanks for the response, David. I find it interesting that you mentioned visualization. That is something I did with my first instrument. With my second instrument I decided to avoid visualizing anything related to music and was determined to auralize only. It’s music after all. I feel like I am preaching now so I will stop. Please know that my comments are written in the spirit of sharing what is possible so that others may venture further than I into musical awareness. Thanks for your wonderful videos.

[@coreygraham860]

Interesting. Was there any structure at all to your practice when learning the second instrument by ear or were you doing it entirely by whim and feel? I would like to learn an instrument just be winging it, but like a lot of people, I worry I'd be wasting time -- or worse, developing bad habits. That's what intrigues me about IFR. It proposes to give you just enough structure to know if you're on the right track, but not too much theory to bog you down and hamper your creative freedom. If your approach manages to do it with even less structure or no structure at all, I'd love to hear more about it.

[@cyomara89]

This's fascinating- we're on (slightly) similar tracks- i've recently taken up violin, because i realized i initially learned piano the wrong way (not by instinctual ear. or "uncluttered", as you phrased it). I could tell there's SUCH a benefit in learning this way- if you're willing to put up with the initial frustration, it pays off later. But I just wanted to ask you if you've come across any practices, methods on your own, that have really helped that I might incorporate?? There's honestly no detail too small that you could tell me! All the best to you, Jeff

[@calcal5135]

@@cyomara89 From my perspective there are two components to truly playing by ear: 1. Automatically playing what is the mind’s ear. 2. Getting good stuff in the minds ear. You can and should develop both. That is you don’t have to develop 1 before 2 or vice versus. What are you presently working on to develop either?

[@KevinStock12]

Thanks for this David! I've been doing the sing the numbers (all modules) but am getting a bit stuck in "translation." If I'm grounded in a key and someone plays a note, I can tell them if it's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7 with about 95% accuracy But when a melody is played (multiple notes) I immediately seem to get lost. For example, I created my own "sing the numbers advanced" track where instead of the track singing the numbers and me repeating, in the 1st bar I just hear the piano tones, then a blank bar follows so I have a chance to sing what I think those tones are, before the "answers" are revealed in the next bar of music. With multiple tones I have a very hard time (and same goes if I'm trying to determine the melodies in songs on the radio). Any advise on how I can progress here?

[@KevinStock12]

P.S. If IFR came out with a Sing the Numbers 3 Advanced track like this, I'd be all over it!! :)

[@ImproviseForReal]

@@KevinStock12 Hi Kevin, very shortly we will be publishing Sing the Numbers 3 but the next level doesn't involve the kind of testing that you've invented (which is awesome, by the way!). Sing the Numbers 3 teaches the Pure Harmony melody paths, meaning the melodies that connect the chord notes in the seven chords of the major scale. I think you'll love it! I'll respond to your other point in your original comment. Thanks! - David

[@ImproviseForReal]

Hi Kevin, thanks for your comment and for going the extra mile to create your own ear training exercises. That's so right. That's EXACTLY what every musician should be doing constantly. If you can just keep that fire burning, and keep nurturing your own passion for learning, then you'll always be able to invent the exercises and activities that will lead you to exactly where you want to go. Your initiative with Sing the Numbers is a perfect example of what I was talking about in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3jaZ2yYfbx7icU As for your difficulty recognizing notes when they're coming at you in fast combinations, this is perfectly normal. No matter how much you develop your ear, we could always invent some computer program that spits the notes out faster than you can possibly process them. So I think the first thing to understand about this process is that it's an organic, human process of perception, and we shouldn't lose sight of that. The goal is not to turn you into some kind of machine that can recognize and transcribe everything instantly. We just want to continue to grow in our appreciation of music, and a natural part of that appreciation is to discover beautiful sounds which then become familiar to us. Right now I think there are two things that can help you learn to recognize multiple notes at once. The first is to simply keep doing what you're doing. With all of the IFR materials, you're on a greatly accelerated track in your music studies. The simplicity of the IFR harmony model makes many things possible all at once. But don't forget that your mind also needs time and repetition to assimilate all of these sounds. The fact that you can understand something theoretically on the first day doesn't mean that you truly KNOW it in your body. So literally, even if you did absolutely nothing more than what you're already doing with Sing the Numbers, you would notice that over time those fast melodies with multiple notes are starting to come into focus. To put it simply, time is on your side. So try to meditate on the idea that every single day your awareness of all these sounds is getting sharper. Let that give you comfort when you're feeling impatient. But the other factor really is something that you can accelerate, and this is to IMPROVISE. Especially if you improvise over the IFR Jam Tracks series using the harmonic material that is laid out for you in that course, this is precisely where you can gain experience hearing multiple notes together in every conceivable combination. This practice together with your Sing the Numbers practice will be incredible for you! Improvisation is the best ear training in the world because you're exploring the sounds in whatever order you like, and you get to hear them over and over again. This lets you develop the same familiarity with entire phrases that you're currently developing with individual notes. But this only works if you're improvising consciously, meaning that you have to be aware of two things at all times: (1) the sound of the note you're playing, and (2) its tonal number. This means listening deeply to each note you play, maybe even singing these notes out loud as you play them, and always knowing exactly where you are on your tonal map. If you're aware of these two things as you're improvising, then literally every note you play is a free ear training class. So in a nutshell, my advice would be (1) you're doing great, so just be patient, and (2) if you want to accelerate your ability to recognize entire melodic phrases then your improvisation practice will be incredibly helpful for that. Thanks for the great question and for sharing your innovation with your "Sing the Numbers Advanced" course!

[@KevinStock12]

@@ImproviseForReal Perfect, thanks so much David! And this is exactly what I'm doing - improvising over harmony jam tracks in the morning with a strong focus on the tonal map (as well as chord vs non chord note sounds) and doing sing the numbers in my commutes. Appreciate the response and encouragement!! I'll keep at it :)

[@ImproviseForReal]

Wow, awesome Kevin! It's exciting to see how motivated you are. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts and experiences as you progress!

[@maestro2033]

I just found you today 5/9/2022. Such a fresh outlook on ear training

[@dillonjames7764]

Do you see a benefit to using "tonal numbers" as opposed to solfege? One definite benefit of solfege is having a SINGLE syllable for each of the 12 notes. Its much quicker and easier to say "te" than it is to say "flat seven" when singing a melody. However, if I can be convinced that the tonal number system is superior, I'll adopt it. Just on the fence for the moment. Also, does the book Improvise For Real outline everything in this course you're describing? or is what you're describing an online subscription sort of thing.

[@ImproviseForReal]

Hi Dillon, we use numbers because it's by far the easiest system for visualizing complex relationships between the notes. For example, most musicians will have to stop and think for a moment to visualize the number of scale degrees between Fa and Ti. But any child can instantly picture the distance from 4 to 7. And this advantage gets multiplied when you start working with chords and entire chord progressions, especially if those progressions involve chords from other keys. Solfege is a great start because the most important thing is just developing your awareness of the sounds and learning to think relative to the key of the music. But once you've got that foundation, if you can switch to using tonal numbers to represent these scale degrees then you can enjoy a much simpler and more empowering visual model. The reason why we don't care about having single syllable names is because these tonal numbers are not a language for vocal improvisation. They are just our visual map of the octave. But if you want to practice the singing exercises with single syllable labels, you could either use solfege or invent a hybrid system where you shorten the names of the tonal numbers to some abbreviation with just one syllable. All of that is up to you. The most important thing is just to have a set of names that allow you to talk about the sounds relative to the key of the music, because this is how our ear naturally hears and appreciates melodies and chords. Thanks for the great question! - David

[@mattmarkus4868]

Do you have an ear-training course now? Or is this just for the normal IFR track.

[@ImproviseForReal]

Hi Matt, we have created a complete audio course to teach you to recognize the notes of the major scale by ear in the music all around you. The course is called 'Sing the Numbers' and to date we have published two levels of this course. The first level focuses exclusively on the first harmonic environment, since this is where the most important connections need to be made. Then the second level expands this to all seven harmonic environments of the major scale. Here are links to these courses: improviseforreal.com/products/sing-numbers-1-ifr-tonal-map improviseforreal.com/products/sing-numbers-2-seven-worlds We think that this course is the best ear training program that exists for creative improvisers. I hope you'll check it out! - David

[@vinnyoorsprong62]

David , be clear please. in another video you start to reconise notes 6,7,1,2and 3. To start with note 6, which still gives room to think in both high and down tones. or does most music start with tone 1? as I notice it is often with tone 5 or 6 .... David, how do you see that? tanks for your advice ;-)

[@ImproviseForReal]

Hi Vinny, songs can start on any note. So we can't use the first note of the song as a reference for note 1. What we need to do is get to know the sound of each note of the scale so that we can recognize them in music the same way we recognize the colors in a painting. In Improvise for Real, the best resources for developing this ability are the IFR Jam Tracks series and our Sing the Numbers audio course. - David

[@bobdeluxeandtheideals1356]

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