How capitalism enslaved us all | Grace Blakeley interview

Grace Blakeley is a writer, commentator and economist whose new book Vulture Capitalism: Corporate Crimes, Backdoor Bailouts and the Death of Freedom is out on the 14th March.
She came by JOE Towers to chat to us about neoliberal capitalism, the destruction of working-class power and how our brains have been rewired to accept mediocrity.
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[@johnnyjet3.1412]

“When the rich steal from the poor it’s called business, when the poor resist it’s called violence”. Mark Twain

[@anonanon6369]

Mark Twain wrote and propagated calumny on Palestine on his "travels" there. a racist and an orientalist.

[@coopsnz1]

the governmet steal from tax payers

[@Stone2home]

You rock!

[@luminousfractal420]

When you believe that's the way it should be it's called eugenics.

[@dreikycaprice]

I love the sentiment, but Twain never said this.

[@pottero6]

The pervading and rampant culture of individualism. Absolutely nailed it. The cause of so much despair, division, hopelessness and suffering in western societies.

[@SlickSimulacrum]

GenZ is in crisis because this individualism has poisoned society so much that they cannot even bear to look upon one another without the pain of endless competitive nihilism.

[@pooheadlou]

The ultimate divide and conquer!

[@LENRXL]

@pottero6 & @pooheadlou. Thanks for the valuable input! Y'll be quoted on the above lines! Cheers

[@bereal6590]

It started with thatcher and Reagan and imo it has ruined society and our culture. People qho bought into it have a tendency to selfishness and also they gained from it despite the losses to others. Argue a case and they'll call you a communist! 😧

[@luminousfractal420]

I'm not sure you did the 90's, individualism was huge, as was community. You've got the wrong target. What's happened has happened since then. Mainly 30years of putin thinking he ruled the internet and brainwashing the youth with his troll teams. And he used eugenicists in the uk and USA to enable it. Tories worked in tandem with the Republicans and putin to create his invading nazis. He really wanted to be invaded. It was his excuse. He got denied. Trump got denied, we still have to clean up our mess. Streets of London are paved in rubles.

[@rexmundi2012]

My God, I was talking about the insidious transition from the language of "citizen" to the language of "consumer" 30 years ago. It was truly heartening to hear her explicitly make this important (yet seemingly minor) point. Thanks for this.

[@thenewvoice8]

me too brother

[@moretimeneeded56]

About the same time we became a human resource

[@JohnnyMotel99]

I'm looking forward when we transition just 'human being', no other label is really necessary.

[@ShakirahIbaad]

@@JohnnyMotel99me too 😞

[@christinequinn5355]

​@@JohnnyMotel99 Well said. But, in response to the original poster, I would like to comment. I am architect/urban designer originally from Ireland, who has been living in the United States for many years. It has been alarming to me to see the RAPID increase over the last 25 years or so, of the United Kingdom wittingly or unwittingly, blindly picking up certain terms from the United States' "Corporatization Dictionary" When I lived in Ireland, up until 1980, I NEVER heard anybody in Britain or Ireland referred to as simply "A CONSUMER". It is an insidious, reductionist term, which most definitely originated here in the United States as a CATCHALL phrase to include everybody. Grace CANNOT be expected to know all the answers. But, she is one of a GROWING number of people trying to articulate, for OUR benefit, the many ways in which, to quote Noam Chomsky, "we have been turned into WAGE SLAVES", and some suggestions of how we combat this soul crushing state of affairs. And as for online criticisms of her comments: If "the left" keeps forever shooting itself in the foot looking for UTOPIA, there will NEVER be social justice in the world, just endless, circular, bitter complaining. This, of course, is EXACTLY what global Oligarchs, Corporations, Banks and corrupt, sold out Governments LOVE to see.

[@tullinadaly]

The guy who ran the Lucas Plan and went to work for the GLC was Prof Michael Cooley. A truly remarkable man and an original thinker. Born in Ireland in 1935, he passed away in 2020. President Michael D Higgins termed him a delinquent genius. He was the founding editor of AI & Society and is regarded as one of the fathers of CAD. He was nominated for a Nobel Prize and received the 'alternative' Nobel prize in the early 1980s. A school friend of famed Irish Playwright Tom Murphy, he started his career as a trainee machine master in Tuam Sugar Factory.

[@michaelporter6341]

We need many more like him, there is so much to do to repair the destruction of industry brought about by financialization and neo-liberalism

[@Smittumi]

Thanks for the info.

[@BhearNow]

And another, thank you. I will educate myself about this man.

[@harrygilonis555]

I was on the periphery of support for the Lucas Aerospace Plan when I was a student in Birmingham, 50 years ago. I have banged on about its importance for, ooh, fifty years. What a delight to discover that it hadn’t just vanished from scrutiny… Sadly - and it is a point Grace Blakeley didn’t make in the podcast - much of the traditional left did not support the Lucas Plan at the time; it challenged their ossified structures just as much as did those of the capitalist state.

[@deusex3124]

This was extraordinarily good. The way this flowed was really impressive. Talking for nearly an hour, barely pausing and with no repetition and being completely engaging throughout too.

[@peterbelanger4094]

lol,

[@peterbelanger4094]

another

[@peterbelanger4094]

clue

[@peterbelanger4094]

less

[@peterbelanger4094]

Mar

[@gavincutler8889]

I was 19 when Thatcher came to power and I can confirm everything stated here. It was all a calculated con. The problem was, organised Labour had made itself an easy target for divide-and-conquer politics. Unions appeared to be driven by selfish acquisition for their membership and the aggrandisement of their leaders. The general public did not take much persuading with a few cheap bribes like utility privatisations and social housing sell-offs. What we have come to now is an obscene caricature of a political “system”, dominated by lies, corruption and greed. First, we need to cut out the diseased tissue at the next election and then get to work improving what is remaining. There is hope, but it will be a very long haul.

[@albertbrammer9263]

Partially correct. But a number of Unions were taking the piss. They actually found a "sleeping room" in British Leyland. A number of Unions refused to any changes. You may have forgotten, but in the 1970s we had blackouts due to strikes.

[@gavincutler8889]

@@albertbrammer9263 agreed, the thrill of homework by candlelight soon wore off

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

I tiurned 18 in 1979 and was just and just too young to vote against her. Everything since has been the protection and consolidation of the wicked system she (re)introduced.

[@pooheadlou]

Unions have been captured, like every institution as been. This is the problem we are facing.

[@luminousfractal420]

​@@gavincutler8889 and now it's all privatized we can't afford the electricity when it's there 😂 candles are still the option for many. (I have been there, they were cheaper to run than an incandescent), by now it has to be vastly cheaper. But regardless it's all because the Tories ran off with the money. Again and again, and again. We can afford a healthy normal life quite easily, with all the perks. We just can't afford to sustain the rich who don't give back. The personal profiteers. Leeches, we're covered in em.

[@Mackerdaymia]

I feel I've been banging this drum for 20 years. Blakeley puts it all so succinctly - really important to do the history lesson first as well, as so many think what we have now is just the "default setting". Just pre-ordered the book. If it's anywhere near as good as the interview, it'll be 15 quid well spent.

[@emperorstevee]

Why are you buying private property? I thought capitalism was slavery.

[@Poetic_Justice1962]

I ordered it as well.

[@Mackerdaymia]

@@emperorstevee I bet you were so proud of this post and how clever you think you're being

[@emperorstevee]

Not really, it's just a KZbin comment section.@@Mackerdaymia

[@James_36]

so selling communism eh? how socialist of her ffs you people are beyond gullible. Todays modern socialist is literally SELLING the idea onto the gullible, they are about as revolutionary as garden gnome

[@RandallSlick]

Grace articulated here what so many of us understand but can't necessarily express, better than almost every other current commentator. Thanks to both. A double-act with Nick Abbot is urgently needed.

[@nmk5003]

I have to be honest, I really didn't find many of her arguments all that compelling, and I say this as a leftist.

[@nonfictionone]

@@nmk5003 there wasn't a lot of argument to be fair, just lots of facts.

[@nmk5003]

@nonfictionone I have no criticism of her factual points, but she offers multiple analyses of the facts throughout the discussion, which I disagree with. Of course, she is a smart lady and a compelling speaker, so that goes a long way for me .

[@upendasana7857]

@@nmk5003 If only you could actually come up with a concrete point to show how her "arguments" were lacking for you...that would actually give your critique some validity

[@ChannelMath]

@@upendasana7857 to be fair (and honest, and balanced), nmk didnt say she had a reason why, she just stated a fact about her own mind. But yeah, it would be great to have some actual critique

[@quepena4879]

I just have to say, Politics Joe is such a WONDERFUL interviewer. Listens well, allows her to speak, engaging responses, knowledgeable, he did his homework and this is a wonderful conversation

[@TheLegenDacster]

Utterly brilliant, accurate, incisive and reaffirming truth, thanks a million Grace and Oli.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

why dont grace and oli live under socialism? because it doesnt work.

[@Ryan-Fkrepublicnz]

We need to stop dancing around the fact that capitalism is economic authoritarianism

[@keithcommins]

Whats your alternative comrade, communism?

[@stevenjroquemore5662]

I think Rush Limbaugh said, "I have the most difficult time defending Capitalism when all I can point at is "Crony-Capitalism". The problem is not the system, it's the individual character problem, right ?

[@michaelregis1015]

​@@keithcommins workplace direct democracy (and direct democracy at the political level).

[@keithcommins]

@@michaelregis1015 what does that mean in reality? Who owns the means of production?

[@michaelregis1015]

@@keithcommins it would mean that all workers within an establishment own the means of production and that the workers themselves get to dictate how the business is operated through a referendum within the workplace. You can even have something like a worker council for different sects of positions within the workplace who would be the delegates who represent the workers of said positions; who come together to make decision at the behest of said workers. So, the delegates are elected and their positions can be revoked at anytime if the workers so please. This system would be such that the workers have a lot more say in the business that they contribute their labour towards.

[@Mattheo76]

She is well spoken and highly intelligent. An absolute treasure to listen to. Thank you for sharing this.

[@James_36]

she is dumb, her solution is socialism/communism, an idea so wrong on so many level even "communists" do not adhere to the core principle. Even the CCP embraced markets ffs. She has not ONE original concept, she is an idiot

[@peterbelanger4094]

lol, she is a simpleton who does not know how the world works.

[@peterbelanger4094]

she

[@peterbelanger4094]

is a

[@peterbelanger4094]

simpl

[@verityviolet]

techno feudalism is the era we are in

[@V555Vendetta]

That’s just the end state of capitalism

[@odinallfarther6038]

Tech is the means it actually corporate feudalism .

[@sterlingarcher5698]

Corprocratic Feudalism?

[@odinallfarther6038]

exactly its the corporations that own the tech same as it always was @@sterlingarcher5698

[@deborahcurtis1385]

Yes that's the understanding that Yanis Varoufakis has. Having had an inside seat as Finance Minister in the Greek government at the time of their most severe crisis, he is remarkably realistic too.

[@tigerag29607]

It blows my mind people can't understand the collusion that goes on between big buisness and government.. And that you can't pull down one without pulling down the other.. Keep handing out the message! Appreciate it guys!

[@robertlawson8572]

"It blows my mind people can't understand the collusion that goes on between big business and government." Then read "War is a Racket" (1935) by Maj Gen Smedley D Butler USMC, ret'd. It's not a long read, is available as a free PDF download, and precedes Michael Moore's similar observations by many decades... A quote from him- “I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914... There's a lot more...

[@ChannelMath]

right, each party only blames only one, so that the uniparty as a whole can keep colluding!

[@peterg7257]

same.... people are by and large -desparate -poorly schooled on such topics -too busy to look into it Then you have other forces against developing an understanding with terms like 'conspiracy theorist' which exist to add to the pile of de-incentivising factors leaning against self education on and speaking openly about such things as you risk becoming a best unpopular at worst laughed at and insulted. there's a hell of a mess to clear up.

[@nicoleandalfonso6355]

Seems like world is dominated by “big”… big government, big business, big unions. The problem instead any one of these things it is that they are “big” Anything “Big” seeks to acquire and consolidate power. The left right dichotomy and the establishment vs non-establishment are framing the discussion to avoid dealing with “big”

[@steeleheroesmedia4699]

Funny how those who advocate for complete state control are saying that there is a critical set of problems with capitalism BECAUSE of COMPLETE state control.

[@DecMurphy]

These are the kinds of conversations we need to be having, very important and very insightful.

[@coolioso808]

Yes, not just these conversations more, but also conversations that lead to community action in solidarity with a system change movement to move beyond capitalism. Sources suggested: Zeitgeist films with Peter Joseph (new one called "Requiem" is out soon, trailer online to see!), Moneyless Society, World Beyond Capitalism, Second Thought, Our Changing Climate, Michael Tellinger with One Small Town Contributionism.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

where in the world is socialism successful? why doesn't Grace live in a socialist country? because she's a coward.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

insightful? a socialist woman that surrounds her life with capitalism? LOL. what hypocrisy.

[@tommynocash2419]

This woman is sound as fuck, more interviews like this

[@user-hu1yi8ox9z]

Many people would like to, 100%, true

[@knossos574]

I only wish these people could give Lenin the credit he deserves, he wrote the book on imperialism: the highest stage of capitalism. Sadly, v1nd1ct1ve l1berals censor communists and completely slander Lenin because he beat them

[@knossos574]

I only wish people like this would give Lenin the credit he deserves. He wrote the book on imperialism: the highest stage of capitalism. But vindictive liberals censor Communists and slander and throw all kinds of dirt on Lenin since it was Marxist ideas that won the hearts and minds of the masses

[@starc.]

"how tools enslaved us all" isnt a sound headliner

[@chillitotes]

Excellent comment - love it 😀

[@basherbasia4451]

Wow....what a smart woman....great to listen to....thanks a lot for this informative interview

[@DarrylBrowne]

The fundamental problem is that everybody works within a business to produce a surplus. A small group of people within that entity then decide what to do with that surplus. It's really no surprise that they choose to use that surplus to enrich themselves by voting for larger shareholder dividends and increased pay for board members while hundreds or thousands of other members of the organisation get almost nothing or literally nothing despite being the largest group that contributed to the surplus that was created. The solution here is to democratise the workplace. Trading shares should be made illegal. When a person joins a company they get a single share which grants them a single vote in all company affairs. When you leave you surrender that share. Then Monday to Thursday everyone works like normal. Friday is voting day where everybody votes on all company decisions. Who to hire, where to move production to, how much to produce, who you want to lead your department, how much to sell things for, who to sell it to and what do the with the surplus. Under this model, how many companies would vote to outsource work to the other side of the world? How many would vote to dump toxic waste into local rivers where the employees live? During a cost of living crisis shouldn't the workers be able to vote to use the surplus to ease their suffering?

[@cfalvl2380]

You are describing what is called 'stakeholder' corporate governance. The UK uses 'shareholder' corporate governance. Germany uses stakeholder corporate governance rather well.

[@danrayson]

That's Stakeholder capitalism. It's what the WEF are advocating for. Suffice to say I'm hard against it.

[@iss5021]

​@@cfalvl2380 it's not describing stakeholder governance, it's describing socialism. stakeholder governance is still capitalism because anyone can own shares in the company if they buy them on the capital markets. the stakeholder model is superior to the shareholder model regarding worker rights, but you're missing the point. who owns the means of production is key

[@bramvanduijn8086]

I would say that it is not the workers of the factory that decide whether to dump the toxic waste in the river but the people who live downstream of that factory. If the employees live there then that's the same of course, but if the employees live upstream of the factory then it's not fair to those downstream of the factory.

[@billyb7852]

Would this not also be cooperative businesses?

[@PhilipChandler]

"Toxic individualism". Right.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

yes. what a ridiculous statement.

[@michaellamont2605]

Masculinity is now toxic. Hope she doesn't need a Fire "person" to save her. Maybe she can wait for a female plumber 😂

[@seanandersonbey3768]

To be fair, this was a stellar interview. All areas on topics covered and found the commentary very coherent and on point. Great 👍

[@johnbehan1526]

What is so refreshing about this channel (I'm not always on board with the opinions of the hosts, so this is definitely not just being a fanboy) and the likes of Novara (again, I'm indifferent to most of the presenters) is that they just have a good faith conversation on the terms of the interviewee and generally just give them space to talk. They will challenge something they don't agree with, but it's seldom hostile, never anti intellectual or disingenuous, and they will talk to anyone from across the political spectrum who comes in good faith with a reasonable argument. Compare this to the hostility of the BBC or the lumpen rhetoric of Sky News. Or worse: KZbin keeps pushing Telegraph nonsense on me and it's staggering: their version of the "intellectual" conversation interview seems so dull, incurious and superficial. Who could stand it?

[@seanandersonbey3768]

@johnbehan1526 Well, certainly agreed on that!.. the likes of the BBC including the legions of dishonrable others is totally unbearable at times..this was very refreshing although like yourself I'm not a politics Joe groupee but I'd say more from where this intervuew came from all day.. thanks

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

name one country in the entire world where her ideas make people free or rich? why doesn't she live under socialism? because she's a coward.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

@@johnbehan1526 Sky news runs circles around the BBC in terms of truth dude. nice try. and Grace> that coward is a socialist that chooses to live under capitalism.

[@ubiktd4064]

The culture war isn't Left vs Right it's Top vs Bottom.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

But the Left have embraced hypa Liberalism and the open borders Globalisation project. They didn't need to

[@Jonnyicey]

Yeah and these people in this video are the top 🤣

[@Sam-dc8du]

Yea mate, they’re clearly billionaires

[@Jonnyicey]

​@@Sam-dc8du no but they are part of the wealthy, private educated ruling class

[@terryparenteau1200]

EXACTLY

[@ianharding3044]

Great interview. Grace Berkeley is spot on.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

why doesnt she live in a socialist country? LOL

[@counterflow5719]

Am I the only one that had to change the playback speed to .75 in order to follow and understand. It was well worth the listen.

[@patcampton7163]

I remember laughing out loud in a HMRC meeting in the 80s being told taxpayers are now customers. Ludicrous then and now and I have always known thisxwas when it started to change under Thatcher and Reagan. Both dead but still causing misery from the grave. This young woman is great . I shall read her book. Thanks for another great interview, Joe.

[@michaellamont2605]

Taxation is theft

[@ovilord]

Phenomenal. Ordered the book, can't wait to read. It's refreshing to hear someone talking as Grace does about not just what is wrong with the current system, but crucially what we could do to make better systems and live better lives. That messaging is the only thing that will get people to take notice.

[@James_36]

LOL - "hey guys it is these total greedy businesses that are to blame, here BUY my book so I can PROFIT off you poor people who moan about the system I have the answers trust me, it is TOTALLY not some dead idiot who hates the world with failed theories TRUST me guys"

[@ovilord]

@@James_36 "You dislike capitalism and yet you take part in it. You are a hypocrite. I am so smart" that's your argument here basically and it's thick as mince. Also... I'm not poor, you don't have to be poor to believe the system is unfair or not working well, or indeed to care if the system is not working for the poorest. Cope harder mate, I'm sure you sticking up for corruption in business and government will convince them to be nicer to you.

[@James_36]

@@ovilord so other businesses cannot make a profit and keep their money but Grace can? she is selling her book for profit? so she is okay to play the game at the same time as moaning about the game she is getting richer from? demanding other business cannot do but she can play it also? LOL how lost you are

[@ovilord]

@@James_36 who said businesses cannot profit? She certainly didn't and neither did I. The issue is a corruption of the market and of public life such that some people and companies get preferential treatment and can take the system for a ride whilst others have to play by the rules, that's wrong. You need to learn some reading and listening comprehension.

[@James_36]

@@ovilord first off, she claims to be a socialist.. socialists are anti- private business hello?? like i said, you are totally fckin lost. what legitimate business is not playing by the rules? they are all playing by the rules.

[@markrichter2053]

This is the best and most encouraging thing I’ve heard all year. Maybe longer than that. Thank you so much. ❤️💪

[@user-ov4bx4of9v]

❤Thank you

[@Syphil23]

‘Stolen’ the first book really hit home with me how the Thatcher years I lived through were the formative years of changing society forever. Living through it. You could feel something really wrong was happening. So looking fwd to getting my hands on Vulture Capitalism ❤✊

[@evolassunglasses4673]

The 70s paved the way for her. We need to understand that

[@stormchaser419]

Thatcher and Reagan. Two peas in a pod.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

name one country in the entire world where her ideas make people free or rich? why doesn't she live under socialism? because she's a coward.

[@andrewkerswell8657]

Great Vid Joe, really interesting look at what an alternative future could look like. Grace explains her ideas in such a clear and understandable way. This sort of stuff should be on the BBC.👍

[@charliebrandt2263]

They would NEVER allow it. BBC is totally captured, just a mouthpiece for the status quo.

[@michaelfourie345]

To Grace Blakeley: I got 35 second into this interview and clicked off and reserved a copy of your book "Vulture Capitalism". It was two points that did it for me, firstly your description of the population as "consumers" and secondly, your usage of the term "toxic individualism". The book is reserved for me at Blackwells Book Store. ( I will watch the interview after I have read the book).

[@slowloris]

Blakeley is amazing! She is so interesting and explains some hard to grasp concepts in a way that is easy to understand. Looking forward to reading her book.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

why does grace not have the courage to live in a socialist country then? what a coward

[@RoofLight00]

We need less Sunak’s and Gove’s in government and more like Grace.

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

Jeremy Corbyn tried, but the British public were too busy being in love with Boris Johnson 🙄

[@andrewharris3900]

@@oldishandwoke-ish1181no one likes socialism, we’ve seen it fail time and time again. No one liked Jeremy, he’s an anti-Western, Britain hating socialist.

[@lambd01d]

Another great interview with Grace. What she was saying about how'oh, that's not real capitalism/socialism' is that people confuse the ideology which is a utopian model of how things should be that usually ignores crucial aspects of how things actually are, so the implementation of those ideas never resembles the ideology because it's just a set of ideas that most people don't even agree with or accept grudgingly due to their lowly position in the power structure. Additionally, they often create perverse incentives eg I remember an Adam Curtis documentary where Russian taxi drivers would drive around pointlessly just to fulfil their fuel quotas.

[@steeleheroesmedia4699]

Funny how those who advocate for complete state control are saying that there is a critical set of problems with capitalism BECAUSE of COMPLETE state control.

[@bereal6590]

Grace is so lovely, intelligent and empathetic. Just wow. I saw and felt that cultural shift within the 60/70's to the beginnings of this mess that had taken full hold by the 80's. If I'd had a daughter I'd have been proud as hell for her to be like grace👏👏👏

[@DrSomhairle]

Sounds like she should get together with Gary Stevenson, and organise a movement to tackle the wealth gap.

[@BenOwen-gf9bn]

I don't see that guy being a communist.

[@DrSomhairle]

@@BenOwen-gf9bn and what has that got to do with anything

[@BenOwen-gf9bn]

@@DrSomhairle because both are going to have a radically different solutions to the problem.

[@mattwilmshurst8456]

Fucking top idea.

[@James_36]

yes 2 grifters working together to extract money from their "poor" audience peddling books for PROFIT 🤣🤣🤣 - I mean how socialistic of them to do so.

[@bellakrinkle9381]

OMG 😲 Someone who can give us a sense of reality. She is so correct in her evaluation and perception of the obstacles that we allow to overwhelm us. How did she get here, with her ability to see clearly 😳 ❤

[@Jay...777]

People have lost belief in organising. But the elite are always organising. Always at it, devising strategies, tactics, the ways & means to control people. Greed, the driving force.

[@lkyuvsad]

John Kay’s “Obliquity” talks a fair bit about the problems with our current flavour of capitalism.

[@pooheadlou]

There are flavours? LOL!

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

its interesting how the poorest countries immigrants dont want to go to socialist countries do they? hmmmm

[@neilpartridge4720]

That is the finest dissertation of political and economic circumstances I have ever heard. Cogent and intelligent. This girl should be in parliament - if it wasn’t so corrupting. Thank you for that précis of the situation everyone faces. This was a joy to listen to.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

name one country in the entire world where her ideas make people free or rich? why doesn't she live under socialism? because she's a coward.

[@phax71]

Love Grace, she’s bloody excellent. Would be good to see her on Mainstream channels again too as it’s been a while and she’s long overdue. ✊✊✊✊🙏

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

why doesn't grace live under socialism then -- you know -- if its so fair and perfect? because she's a coward.

[@bham0308]

We need this woman or others of her beliefs to get the political power to change things. I am 68 and can remember a fairer society. She is spot on about Thatcherism. Alas, Joe was also spot on when he said the current system has as one of its main weapons, the power and ability to minimalise and discredit all other alternatives.

[@richardbuckharris189]

"'Rugged individualism' has meant all the 'individualism' for the masters, while the people are regimented into a slave caste to serve a handful of self-seeking 'supermen.' America is perhaps the best representative of this kind of individualism, in whose name political tyranny and social oppression are defended and held up as virtues; while every aspiration and attempt of man to gain freedom and social opportunity to live is denounced as 'un-American' and evil in the name of that same individuality." ~ Emma Goldman

[@Syphil23]

I’m confused and dismayed at Grace’s repeated use of the term Anarchy. I realise there is a historical precedent for referí g to some economic systems as Anarchy. But imho it muddies the water between what the political ideology of Anarchism has achieved over hundreds of years. ( ie: bottom up structures - a dissolution of hierarchy ) and it continues the trope in people’s minds that Anarchy is Chaos. It’s really unfortunate but using the term chaotic or something would be much more helpful.

[@scooble]

Obviously, she knows what it means, you know what it means and I know what it means. A descriptive definition would be useful for those scared of the word, but I doubt that they'd be the kind of person who watches this anyway

[@keycuz]

You could say that about most political terms. Every word is basically dog whistle, inuendo, obscuring bullshit. It's hard to talk to someone using a different set of definitions for the same words.

[@thereformist8718]

Anarchism has achieved nothing in the past few centuries

[@nigelleppitt773]

Or re invent the word anarchy, which at is spirit is the true spirit of democracy, giving back to people the ability for self government …demos cratos

[@stfnba]

Yes, I agree with you. I have read her 'corona crash' and it seems to me that she comes from a party-political view of society and the 'economy', at the expenses for the potentials for antagonism and revolt from below.

[@jason.r9273]

It's not capitalism. If it was another system, they would set it up the same way. When you print the money, you shape everything top down. We have a central bank problem, not a system(capitalism) of finance problem.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

exactly

[@davidsparger3038]

It is a capitalism issue. Central banking is symptom of capitalism. We need state banking rather than centralized

[@jason.r9273]

@@davidsparger3038 State is controlled by federal. We need decentralization at the individual level or representation that can not be compromised. Elites know all this. That is why they will never allow it.

[@thetasworld]

In my view the effort to turn every person in an entrepreneur, every home in a business is far more sinister than just destroying the social structure, since under this system, 99% of wealth sooner or later will be owned by the 1%. We are all working non-stop to make them richer.

[@robertmontgomery6256]

I was pleasantly shocked to hear her recapitulate Marx so clearly. We Marxists don’t do it half so well. How does she know all this stuff? Well it shows how old I am, I guess. Grace is over 30 years old.

[@theworldaccordingto4555]

Everyone should read: 'The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists' by Robert Noonan (pen name Robert Tressell) and 'The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism' by Naomi Klein and watch the documentary films, 'Sicko' and 'Capitalism: A Love Story', both made by Michael Moore (film maker) Those are a good place to start when looking into the mess we are in atm.

[@mattwilmshurst8456]

Fucking smart conversation that highlights precisely the issues and problems that face any modern democracy.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

why doesn't grace live under socialism then -- you know -- if its so fair and perfect? because she's a coward.

[@Purzius]

Excellent, very engaging interview, loved listening throughout! "There is no such thing as a society, only individuals competing against each other"... Quite sad

[@jonathanash4280]

Grace Blakeley is able to describe the sort of future may of us are hoping for but aren't able to describe, how wonderful it is to hear her speak, but Wow - I wish she would talk slower!

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

why doesn't grace live under socialism then -- you know -- if its so fair and perfect? because she's a coward.

[@fringefringe7282]

Very intelligent woman.

[@pandemoniumgaming6344]

Great interview and glad to know Grace now I'll certainly check out her book and she speaks the truth on many things especially in what we need to do to get out of this mess

[@grace.blakeley]

Legend!

[@pandemoniumgaming6344]

Yes you are@@grace.blakeley Listening to people like you gives me small hope maybe we can change things for the better.

[@James_36]

so she is allowed to play the capitalist game is she but others are not? LOL this is absolutely beyond funny. I thought people were poor and cannot afford stuff anymore according to her? so why is she peddling a useless book that will provide ZERO economic benefit to the people who read it? LOL wow go get some thinking skills

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

anyone that supports socialism, is not speaking the truth. LOL

[@rafikazi7577]

My uni is hosting her to talk about her book I’m gassed 😂

[@benph1214]

Not to under play what she’s saying. But that sock shoe combination. Hit the OCD Mark. The banner on the sock perfectly matches the elastic on the shoe. Damn that’s appealing

[@johnjones6601]

Everything she describes is not Capitalism, it's Corporate cronyism and Gov't clientelism. In a proper Capitalist economy, there wouldn't be any Federal Reserve, fiat money, bailouts, nationalisation, Gov'ts acting as quasi corporations, pork barrelling, welfare state, NHS, etc. That's not to say Capitalism is a perfect system: it isn't, but put the blame where it belongs.

[@alexbalayants8490]

There are quite a few in-depth arguments that say capitalism cannot exist or properly function without major state intervention to uphold its hegemony, bail it out when bad decisions are inevitably made, and allow it to achieve its final goal: monopoly. The idea of free markets cannot be achieved. Because the whole idea of capitalism is to gain as much market share, and therefore maximize profit getting closer to major market control. This will obviously create major barriers to entry to any real competition, and will eventually create a dystopian monopoly where these corporate entities will control the market. The capitalism you’re discussing is impossible, it will - by design - always devolve into corporate cronyism.

[@michaellamont2605]

Capitalism - the voluntary exchange of goods and services Any relationship that isn't voluntary, usually very good

[@kerryfry1857]

I believe we need democracy at work. However the game of monopoly has been played, before you were born. The owner class killed, stole, bribed and cheated, your ancestors. How do we redress the balance? Who do you put in charge to task that redress? Could that person, once in power just become a dictator? Many more issues I'm sure I'm not smart enough to think of.

[@relight6931]

You know this, but I guess you need remembering, coming to some international corporation will never end in your workplace becoming more democratic. I work for current employer for the last 9 years, 4 years from home. Low stress, one shift, nice boss and colleagues.. It is sweet. If you want it be democratic, why not try starting your own business, which if you find a great grope of people, it is profitable and think they might be right for it, you can later turn into commune, where you would all participate, decide what to do with surplus, etc.. That is the only way it is happening.

[@robertlawson8572]

"The owner class killed, stole, bribed and cheated, your ancestors." It may even be that many of us "working classes" were complicit in killing, cheating, and stealing from, others, in far flung lands ( take southern Africa for instance) in order that the "owner class" could enrich themselves, safely... Those diamonds, that gold, won't steal themselves, you know...

[@bramvanduijn8086]

@@relight6931 "coming to some international corporation will never end in your workplace becoming more democratic." can you expand on that?

[@relight6931]

@@bramvanduijn8086 well it is not a democracy, and you have no way of changing it. Actually I am wrong. If you had money to buy it outright, then you could change it. No more shareholders deciding. In start you are autocrat. But then you can change it into what ever you want..

[@evolassunglasses4673]

Liberal Democracy is just rule by international finance and the Merchant class

[@CafeLu]

This was not only informative but surprisingly uplifting! I may have to listen again.

[@mycatisromeo]

Reading through comments on videos like this makes me hopefull that there are intelligent people and who are aware of what is going on below the surface.

[@brunom3478]

You Brits do have some great independent left wing media platforms

[@djjlc]

She not left 😂 she’s just a normal human being and a political sheep 🐑

[@alistairrobinson3865]

If I only we didn’t have all the headbangers also!! 😂

[@HonestSonics]

These one to one interviews feel like old school PBS

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

under socialism, this platform would be banned. LOL

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

why doesn't grace live under socialism then -- you know -- if its so fair and perfect? because she's a coward.

[@triggerking135]

She's future PM material.

[@georgebath8209]

No chance. She has a brain.

[@ChannelMath]

in a post-revolution world, maybe

[@triggerking135]

@@georgebath8209 good point!

[@benhinchliffe7696]

People like this never get anywhere near power, because they know how it works, so are too much of a threat to the current system.

[@colincampbell4261]

You can't speak freely when you have the responsibilities a PM has..

[@alexandraalexandra8814]

Fantastic interview, happy to see young intelligent people not buying into the oligarchy we live under today.

[@jamescolpas]

Thank you so much for this. Brilliant and oh so true❤

[@ThePdeHav]

I’m right wing so how come I agree with Grace on most points she raises in this interview? Hang on, agreeing with serious people on the left seems to happening a fair bit recently. Could it be that serious people no matter their politics have more in common because the divide promulgated in the media is false?

[@nauxsi]

left or right...a toothache is a toothache.

[@clemdarkstar]

Bought the book, loving it. Great show

[@kalasue7]

I was born in early 90s. I have a hard time thinking economists thought they had solved the boom bust cycles before the 2008 financial crisis.

[@cheri238]

It's great to hear that Grace Blakely has a new book coming out. Thank you!! She makes some great arguments. Give her a chance. Why are women always picked on?

[@fitwithartin]

Invite Yaron Brook if you really want to talk about capitalism.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

exactly. i would love to see yaron and Grace. Grace would probably decline. LOL

[@user-wq9lb6vp2h]

The complexity of the many crises that beset us so often leads to a sense of being overwhelmed and confused about how to diagnose the problems and where to start with solutions. Grace cuts through all this with a clarity that is so refreshing and - for me, at least - feels like she is describing a fundamental truth. I have a sense that the acceptance of democratisation starts with a sense of personal agency - not an expression of individualism but a sense that you give yourself permission to challenge the orthodoxy of our system and seek the support of others who have similarly freed themselves from the old straitjacket. Ironically, individualism may actually stifle personal agency for those who do not have the means or experience (or even the desire) to play the system. I suspect many have been sucked into Thatcher's so-called democratisation of capital ownership and felt the fear of the responsibility not to lose it all as they try to navigate an alien financial world whose rules are opaque and whose unpredictability is alarming. We just should not be handing the management of essential services to a casino-style market where the odds are rigged in favour of the house (for 'house' read corporations) and nor should such a fundamental safeguard as a roof over our heads be put at risk, whether it is owned or rented, through the fluctuation of property prices and the B of E's anti-social efforts to protect the financiers.

[@Ryan-Fkrepublicnz]

Dominance based hierarchy VS consensual cooperation

[@kp6215]

Remember the FEAR the overseerers told the people of 2000 ? I do and said depending on the programmers that I said women programmers would have written into programs as we were trained Grace Hopper.

[@user-js4sb4qq2h]

Thank you for this essential video oh my goodness!!!!!!

[@josephineh6154]

Love Grace! We need more ideas like hers in the mainstream to show everybody there are peaceful alternatives to our current failing system!

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

why doesn't grace live under socialism then -- you know -- if its so fair and perfect? because she's a coward.

[@ivanchernenko9879]

As a free market, Capitalist leaning person Grace has made some compelling arguments. So now, tell us which Socialist country, existing today is anywhere close to the ideal to which a Socialist aspires to? Not a single country in history has made Socialism really work. ALL Socialist countries either have collapsed or had to go back to Capitalist policies because unfortunately history is littered with brutal, impoverishing Socialist countries. Anyone??

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

Exactly. also -- notice grace Blakeley does not choose to live in a socialist nation either. LOL

[@tirusew]

What is the innovation in this conversation? If you need to control the work place, who started it all? The idea? The capital to sprout it and the system to grow it? Not touched is the question of someone had to start innovating.

[@karlwheatley1244]

People naturally learn and innovate, we don't need capitalism for that (and it warps the process). Most profound innovations come from scientists who don't care that much about giant salaries or awards--they just love the pursuit of knowledge.

[@musicmikemn]

As system design was mentioned, Deming has a great quote of "a bad system beats a good person, everytime." The "toxic individualism" mentioned is effectively blaming the good person for not being able to rise above a badly designed system.

[@bereal6590]

I've seen this dynamic many times in the workplace. What happens is akin to the famous prison experiment, the good get beaten down or they leave and the 'jailers' rise to the top

[@chazdomingo475]

Toxic individualism is believing you can exist in society without cooperating. It's basically a case for psychopathy. These are not good people.

[@nicoleandalfonso6355]

If a “bad system beats a good person, every time, then maybe we should replace the system with a good person… sounds like an authoritarian

[@charliebrandt2263]

Well put...

[@cleonawallace376]

Brilliant interview and explanation of so many of the problems that we face. Thanks

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

why doesn't grace live under socialism then -- you know -- if its so fair and perfect? because she's a coward.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

its interesting how the poorest countries immigrants dont want to go to socialist countries do they? hmmmm

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

i guess you couldnt handle me calling out the truth huh?

[@chillitotes]

But what about capital to start these worker/community organisations?

[@brianprice5152]

What a great economist along Gary Stevens, Steve keene and jim rickards

[@SirWhig-esq.]

Smoke and mirrors is all the Tories do/have/leave in their wake

[@danrayson]

Labour will do the same. Remember WMDs?

[@verityviolet]

Labour is almost no different.

[@AllodialTitle]

Dr David Kelly! How is Labour different?

[@django3422]

When did OP mention Labour? You guys rather give the game away when you immediately leap up to say "but Labour!"

[@emperorstevee]

Yeah it's not you having made poor financial decisions, it's the tories. Someone else's fault.

[@psikeyhackr6914]

A Swedish man (I think) claimed that he was a high school teacher and a socialist. He told me that he objected to mandatory accounting in schools on the grounds that "the math would make capitalism seem logical to the students." A Libertarian (male I presume) said that he objected on the grounds that "nothing should be mandatory." I have been suggesting this for some time and fail to comprehend any serious objections. In fact another Internet Entity who claimed to be an accountant said he did not mind so long as it was not done until after he retired in 6 years.(I'm not sure how long ago this was. More than 3 years) If you search Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations, which is free on the Internet, for "read, write" you will find every instance is followed by "and account". Smith used the word 'education' Eighty Times but consumers did not buy air conditioners and microwave ovens before 1790. Those things wear out and Smith did not say much about depreciation. Karl Marx used the word 'depreciation' 35 times in the first two volumes of his major work. Marx knew about railroads while Smith did not, but there were still no microwave ovens. The concept of GNP/GDP was developed in the late 1930s. For some reason Marx did not get the memo. A derived concept which gets little mention is NNP/NDP where Net replaces Gross. Just subtract Depreciation from Gross. Of course there is a hitch. That Depreciation only applies to Capital Goods, like industrial robots and 18-wheel trucks. The air conditioners and microwave ovens purchased by consumers have their depreciation ignored. The economists do not point out these details. How do you suppose planned obsolescence factors into that? When television began its wonderful job of brainwashing Baby Boomers there were only 2.5 billion people on the planet. The spaceship is more crowded now. Do you suppose mandatory accounting/finance might be a good idea? All over the world?

[@psikeyhackr6914]

What do Socialists say about Planned Obsolescence? How many people understand what a Bathtub Curve is? Can't manufacturers measure and specify the reliability and durability of products. How are consumers supposed to decide what to spend money on?

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

why doesn't grace live under socialism then -- you know -- if its so fair and perfect? because she's a coward.

[@dlm972]

When will we stop this madness? It's fine and dandy to talk about it but we need action

[@stephenmills7061]

Our whole economic system is based on two illusions..Disunity and Insufficiency. We believe we are seperate from each other and that there is not enough to go around. A New Guiding principle must be put in place to guide our evolutionary process. Evolved beings understand that all things are One so this would guide the process.

[@Gph0367]

Thank you for exposing the truth Grace. Great interview Oli

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

truth? from grace the socialist? grace the socialist that uses capitalism -- not socialism to sell her books? how are you seriously this dumb?

[@user-qy2fl8og6x]

I was joking when i would tell people ,the new middle class is living in a van down by the river .Not a joke anymore .The middle are the ones that help the poor .So what happens to the poor ? Thats a scary thought .❤

[@TJ-Judge]

Consumers are the new peasant class

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

consumers are voluntary under capitalism.

[@davidkavanagh189]

Fascinating. She makes some very eye-opening points.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

name one country in the entire world where her ideas make people free or rich? why doesn't she live under socialism? because she's a coward.

[@11nephilim]

Big fan of Grace! Looking forward to reading her book once I've finished The Trading Game.

[@James_36]

so you are a big fan of free enterprise then? not socialism? I mean she really is some genuine socialist isnt she with her OWN business SELLING her OWN book for PROFIT? hmm sounds more capitalistic than most to me

[@11nephilim]

@@James_36 not really, no? In most concepts of socialism money still exists and people get paid for their work, there just isn't a bloated owner class skimming most of the value of that work from the people they exploit. Hope this helps 👍

[@James_36]

@@11nephilim no that is not socialism, not even close

[@11nephilim]

@@James_36 ok bud thanks for the laugh anyway

[@James_36]

@@11nephilim she is an anti-capitalist.. and yet she is here peddling for capital.. when you wake up let me know

[@musicbro8225]

This is becoming the stage of 'Conquer'... We have been divided. Case in point: Trolls. Once we would jokingly say 'don't feed the trolls'. Today they are more numerous than actual voices, they are as toxic, illogical and ruthless as they can possibly be. YT ramps up it's sterilizing of any meaningful discussion. Basically driving over people with a metaphorical bulldozer.

[@margotwojtowicz9378]

It is good to see that some people realise all this, hopefully it will push the younger generation to seek a real change which will make the uk a better place to live for my teenage kids. I agree with everything that this lady has said except organising with migrants, mass migration from outside Europe is a huge danger to native European culture and cohesion in society.

[@DrDanWeaver]

Inspiring and brilliant. Tracking the book down. Amazing words, Grace. Well done, Joe. 💌

[@Mossywoodland]

This is real, practical hope. The revolution may be quieter than imagined..

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

why doesn't grace live under socialism then -- you know -- if its so fair and perfect? because she's a coward.

[@FoxSt3v3]

great conversation thanks Grace

[@shaunoliver1703]

Hmm - There is a lot to unpick from this. I don't agree with her on many points but equally the system is broken. What I find frustrating is social capitalism is never brought into the equation. When you leave a system to run to its end game - of course, it will end up in its most extreme form both on the left and right. Don't know the solution but I don't think it is what Grace is suggesting.

[@alistairsavoury1074]

So refreshing to hear people like Grace, expand, develop and encourage more and more of us to wake up and smell the coffee. Fabulous interview, and ordering the book. Next?

[@billyb7852]

I think collectivism still exists in society, but only at the lower rungs. I have run and used food banks at different points of my life. There was a lot of mutual aid in the pandemic, there are extensive networks of support up and down the country among the low paid. People who live in their communities are so exhausted and burnt out that it is threatening the fabric of society. Libraries are run by volunteers. Churches provide homeless shelters in wintertime. We often talk about creating communities that can survive successive governments with different agendas. Charity is not sustainable in poor communities. Too much money is needed, I do think CICs and Social Enterprises have to be the solution. Self-funding community-run organisations. It is great to know there is hope, but the work is exhausting.

[@nauxsi]

That's what debt does. Interest compounds until such a point that it is a black hole that sucks all of our effort.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

the fabric of society has eroded because of too many social entitlements that have jacked up inflation, and made people dependent on the government. Socialism always destroys societies. Capitalism is what builds societies.

[@Ozzybob-ts7yj]

What we have now is corporate socialism. More socialism is not the answer. More individual rights is the answer. Less taxation. Less regulation. The only regulation I'd like to see more of is competition regulation. Max market share and streamlining for small business when involved in government contracts. These large corps push govt for more regulation, which keeps out the small players.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

thats why i vote conservatives not liberals in the USA

[@David-wm8jp]

We haven't had capitalism for about half a century.

[@harrygilonis555]

Of course. I blinked and missed the takeover by giant shapeshifting lizards. Doh!

[@sobyeski]

Politics Joe, just on fire atm with some great guests

[@James_36]

so politics Joe can run a business but others cant? sorry abit confused here, they are soo socialist, who is paying them? why can they make a profit and avoid tax via a business?

[@fitwithartin]

What is toxic about freedom or individualism? Leave ppl alone to make their future and chase their dreams. If they offer more value to the economy and others, they will succeed. Capitalism is the only morally consistent and truly ethical economic system that does not coerce ppl to do anything or pay for anything they think they don't need to.

[@user-py7xe5bb1f]

The problem is that the current capitalist system has manipulated people to believe that what currently exists is freedom. I think a lot of people struggle with the concept of freedom and don't embrace the more important forebearer, liberty. Can you really have freedom without liberty? Do you currently believe you have liberty? As to the moral conception of Capitalism, there is no such thing. The very idea of profit is the antithesis of morality. This is why capitalism fought so hard against the moral division of the state during the 18th century.

[@StephanDallaPria]

​@@user-py7xe5bb1fAnd you'll have freedom in a command economy where the state dictates what you will consume and produce at any given time? Because the state is incapable of corruption? Big LOL.