How Competitive is TOO Competitive? (Podcast)

[@SassyCassie89]

Withholding rules, rolling dice into models to displace them, slow play, cocked dice every dice, "mistaking" stats, shifting break limit, never ending M/W/F......I've seen a lot, some people get reeeaaaal sweaty playing this game.

[@Edcounsellor]

Hey there everyone, Justin Bertrand from The OSBGL here. I just wanted to drop a message to thank you for the great content and to submit a list review. So, when I am not bringing my “Fluffy” Rangers of the North to events like Ardacon...😉 I enjoy all Cav armies the best. Thus, the following is a 800 point Riders of Eomer list. Please note I have been playing this list and have done real well with it (in the two tournaments I have taken it too, I placed third in one and 6th at the second after loosing last round on top table). I still want to see what you think as I know this LL is not common lol. Leader warband Eomer with horse, shield, and throwing Spear (TS) 1 rider of Rohan with banner 2 warband Gandalf the white on shadowfax 2 riders of Rohan 3 warband Erkenbrand on Horse 2 westfold red shields with TS 4 westfold red shields 4 warband Captain of Rohan with Horse, heavy armour, shield and TS 2 riders of Rohan 21 models, 800 points on the dot, 11 might, 17 bows, 10 Ts. I look forward to hearing your thoughts, but IMO I love playing this list and it will definitely be one of my bread and butter options moving forward.

[@ciaosonoAlbertoG]

A list for list review: ++ Strategy Battle Game (Lothlórien) [37 Warriors, 750 Points, 13 Bow] ++ + Hero of Legend + Galadriel [18 Warriors, 344 Points] . Galadriel: Leader (Legend), Nenya, Unarmed . Warband . . Wood Elf Warrior: Elven Cloak, Elven-made Hand-and-a-Half Sword, Throwing Daggers, 8x Warrior, Wood Elf Spear . . Wood Elf Warrior: Elven Cloak, Elven-made Hand-and-a-Half Sword, Throwing Daggers, 9x Warrior . . Wood Elf Warrior: Banner, Elven Cloak, Elven-made Hand-and-a-Half Sword, Throwing Daggers, Warrior, Wood Elf Spear + Hero of Valour + Haldir [15 Warriors, 257 Points, 11 Bow] . Haldir: Elf Bow, Elven-made Hand-and-a-Half Sword, Heavy Armour . Warband . . Wood Elf Sentinel: Elf Bow, Elven Cloak, Elven-made Sword, Sentinel . . Wood Elf Warrior: Elf Bow, Elven Cloak, Elven-made Hand-and-a-Half Sword, 7x Warrior . . Wood Elf Warrior: Elf Bow, Elven Cloak, Elven-made Hand-and-a-Half Sword, 3x Warrior, Wood Elf Spear . . Wood Elf Warrior: Elven Cloak, Elven-made Hand-and-a-Half Sword, Throwing Daggers, 4x Warrior, Wood Elf Spear + Hero of Fortitude + Galadhrim Captain [4 Warriors, 149 Points, 2 Bow] . Galadhrim Captain: Armoured Horse, Elven-made Hand-and-a-Half Sword, Heavy Armour, Shield . Warband . . Galadhrim Knight: Elf Bow, Elven-made Sword, Heavy Armour, Horse, 2x Knight, Shield . . Wood Elf Warrior: Elven Cloak, Elven-made Hand-and-a-Half Sword, Warrior . . Wood Elf Warrior: Elven Cloak, Elven-made Hand-and-a-Half Sword, Warrior, Wood Elf Spear + Misc + Determine Alliance Level: Historical Allies Determine Breakpoint & 25% They say a great Sorceress lives in these woods... Wound Chart ++ Total: [13 Bow, 750 Points, 37 Warriors] ++ Created with BattleScribe (battlescribe.net) I've already played with it and won against Khazad Dum on Fog of War. Defense 3 is very, very frail in combat but basically everything is impossible to shoot if you play correctly, you have so much shooting through bows and S3, 3+ throwing weapons and Galadriel is pretty darn great. I enjoyed kiting some dwarves with it 🤣

[@philipolhager]

Thanks for looking at my list! I thought Rainier would get a kick out of it, glad I wasn't wrong :) I definitely agree with 500p not being a good points value for a list like this. Any way you try to do it you end up with some pretty glaring vulnerabilities. I posted it here because I didn't really love any of the ideas I had. I will say I had not considered swapping the Captain for a second Chariot Chieftain, and that is probably the way I would go here. I have decided to just run the Legion with Brorgir; it's a good vs evil tournament, and half out of necessity and half for fun my good list is Breaking of the Fellowship. So while I don't really care about winning, I would still like to give my evil army its biggest chance to do well hehe. That being said, there's a 700p tournament coming up not long after so maybe then... :) As for competetiveness I'm pretty much entirely in agreement with you guys. The game should be played as if both players have perfect knowledge of the board and the rules, so if I think my opponent is forgetting or misintepreting something I will always point it out. My local group is also generally good at this, pointing out when the opponent forgets a banner etc. Regarding the Tremor FAQ: I think the way you guys ended up interpreting it is unfortunately (or fortunately for me hehe) correct. The problematic wording is "either or" which does imply that these are the only options, as well as the question asking "exactly which models may resist. I also agree that it changes what's written in the rules manual, since there it seems clear to me that a model hit by being in combat can resist.

[@AustinBecht]

So jumping off of the discussion about the opponent forgetting to call Strike... If I have my F7 hero in combat directly with their F5 hero with Strike, and they forget to call it, that'd be a point I'd probably call out and say "Are you sure?" But let's take a different scenario into account, wherein my F7 hero can and does call a Heroic Combat and can get into their F5 hero, and they just don't see that... is that a tactical error, or is that them forgetting rules? That's where things get tricky, and it becomes harder to tell if you should call it out or not. But otherwise, I generally just try to do stuff like Rainier said. I will constantly say "Is that it?" or "Are you done?" or "Do you have anything else?" And on the topic of Heroics, I generally try to start a turn by asking my opponent if they have any heroics to call, or something to the effect. Like, "Well I won priority, would you like to call any heroic moves?" or "I'm calling X/I'm not calling anything, do you have any heroics to call?" or such. Or with banners, I like to just ask if a fight is in banner range (if the banner is close enough for that to maybe be the case). Little passive things like that are honestly very great.

[@joeltimonen8268]

1:21:12 I'm totally with Matt on that banner-effect FAQ: it's unnecessary complexity for complexity's sake. Also, mûmak's give a duel reroll to friendly Haradrim and Mahûd models that stacks with a banner reroll.

[@Jbrown98]

Just to add a subjective piece in here, I do think there is also a point even in highly competitive games where you can tell the game is going one way. There is a medium to high percentage of scenarios that are simply won by getting one kill with your leader, holding an artifact or claiming objectives. Ive played a couple people on my skill level who were clearly winning games , there wasn't a way on earth I was gonna pull out a win, and they refused to pull their punches, (which to be fair I get wanting to get max VP's on top table, but I also don't play that way out of trying my hardest to honor my opponent) Maybe that falls under not being a jerk but I've run into it a fair bit personally, but I've also seen people take advantage of newer players as well. A buddy of mine and I will usually agree beforehand how we wanna play, for example, at a tournament my best friend kicked my butt.... I looked him in the eye and said next pick up game we play im sending you to the shadow realm.... we then went SUPER competitive and I won 12-0 on a pick up game, but it was agreed as friends that we would go all out, there is a place for going all out too but I do think it has to be mutually understood. Im all for giving it your all but I think game awareness is crucial, being able to see the person at the other end of the table and honor them with how you play is really how the game is meant to be played... all in all, if you are running away with the game, pull your punches and slow play it so your opponent has a chance to play the game. does this make sense?

[@SonsOfGondor1]

FYI, Matt was right - Elrond had an FAQ about the Gift of Foresight before (I think it's in both of the Armies of the . . . books). The changes I wish were in this FAQ were some cost rebalancing (1pt throwing daggers for Wood Elf Warriors, drop the price of Blackshields by 1pt, etc.). Also, F6 Eomer (at least in his Legion).

[@YUP3RS]

LIST REVIEW: I want to try running Grimbeorn and the Beornings in a list that isn't just the Beorning LL (I understand the Beorning LL is strong as I consider myself as a medium skill player and I've only lost 2 and 1 tie in 12 games played with them at 650pts or less games). Originally I was thinking a Shire alliance but I don't own a Shire army and don't really want to spend an arm and leg on purchasing a ton of Hobbits so this is what I came up with. Gondor + Beornings (31 Models, 10 Might, 0 Bows, 5 Fast Models) Denethor [Leader] (14/15) 9 Warrior of MT with Spear/Shield 1 Warrior of MT with Shield/Spear/Banner 1 Warrior of MT with Shield 3 Knight of MT with Shield Avenger Bolt Thrower with Swift Reload (2/6) Boromir of Gondor W Shield/Horse Grimbeorn (11/15) 11 Beornings Boromir of Gondor provides the March and general utility and the Bolt Thrower can pressure shooting lists. The general idea being you put the Minas Tirith Warriors in front of the Beornings as you potentially March up to the opponent's army, then when you are about to smash lines you put the Beornings on the front line being Spear supported by the Minas Tirith Warriors with Spears. You can also split up Grimbeorn + a contingent of Beornings and Warriors of Minas Tirith from the Banner if you need since the Beornings count Grimbeorn as a Banner when he is a Bear. Curious to hear your thoughts on whether this list seems like it could be competitive or I should just stick to the Beornings LL or a pure/green alliance Minas Tirith list with Big Boromir or Elessar at 800 points.

[@mateuszkania6585]

Love to hear the review

[@Matt-ln7lb]

On the banner thing: It's only ever relevant if the model re-rolling the die might be a hero, because you will never use the re-roll if you need it to win the fight, so which die you re-roll with it is completely irrelevant unless the model has might or fight value is even and the fight is currently a draw. If a model has might, then you'd already be differentiating their dice, so it's irrelevant. If the fight would be a draw, it can matter, but it's usually a non-issue.

[@MBSoundDesign]

Considering that fights (especially 2v2s with banner re-rolls) are regularly tied and Fight value is regularly even on both sides (F4 is common everywhere and F5 on your elf is tied with a lot of heroes and in every Elf-matchup), it's actually relevant a lot of the time.

[@marktynan6045]

My list was at the bottom of the screen 😢