How Cthulhu Transcended its Creator, H.P. Lovecraft | Monstrum

[@anthonywheeler2082]

Horror has always helped us see our place in the world more clearly. Cosmic horror doubles down on that idea, and expands it out into bizarre, terrifying dimensions.

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

100%

[@Shug-Goff]

Very well said. Something I have felt strongly about since I was 16 years old ( now 47) it has only gotten stronger since then. At least I know I'm still human in the way it counts the most. It humbles you strangely too, it helps you see how the mind of a zealot works and all it takes one seed and fertile imagination.

[@Acefreezies]

Normal horror puts your physical and sometimes spiritual self into perspective, while cosmic horror puts the concept of everything you are into perspective. Love it when a story asks me if my consciousness even matters

[@duelcarrom7455]

@Acceleration Quanta its real ive captured a footage of Cthulhu in my channel in the ocean staring at godzilla

[@DOMINATION456STUDIOS]

Because there really ARE

[@stefanlaskowski6660]

I was a huge Cthulhu Mythos geek in high school, and read every Lovecraft, Derleth, or Robert E. Howard story that I could find. I still have the collected works on Kindle, but I haven't read any in decades. It was fun seeing this review of the phenomenon.

[@TomVCunningham]

You should get back into it. There's a lot of weird fiction being published these days and a lot of it is really good.

[@andrewgagne5063]

I am a big Cthulhu Mythos fan too, but my interested started during my first years in college.

[@jonathonfrazier6622]

Did you get to Clark Ashton Smith?

[@mheermance]

Try reading "A Colder War" which was written around 2000. It is a Cthulhu and cold war crossover.

[@barrncat]

@@jonathonfrazier6622 C.A. Smith was great friends with both R. Howard and H.P. Lovecraft, they never met in person but wrote to each frequently. I have always admired his work when I first came upon it in the late 1960s along with Howard and Lovecraft. I do not believe any of his stories have been made into movies which is a shame. Of the three authors he is the least known and deserves more recognition.

[@richardwilliams5387]

It "transcended" Lovecraft mainly because he (Lovecraft) during his lifetime freely encouraged his letter writing circle of "weird tales" contemporaries to use his mythology in their own works. Also, sidenote: characters DID SEE Cthulu in "person" in Call of Cthulu. Namely, Norwegian sailor Gustaf Johansen and his crewmates...

[@BainesMkII]

It's been a while since I've read the story, but beyond simply seeing Cthulhu, didn't Gustaf escape by smashing his boat *through* Cthulhu's head? (Bursting Cthulhu's head in the process, only to see it reform afterwards.)

[@richardwilliams5387]

@@BainesMkII Indeed he did. And it apparently stunk like a "cloven sunfish". Lol.

[@AnkhAnanku]

Most of his contemporaries were also superior writers. Lovecraft’s inspirations generally outstrip the original source

[@AnkhAnanku]

@@DabroodThompson this is true “works of media inspired by Lovecraft” or maybe “media claiming inspiration from Lovcraft’s mythos” would be more accurate?

[@Vox-Multis]

I think one of the most interesting things about Lovecraft is the fact that were it not for his xenophobia, his stories probably wouldn't have had nearly the same impact, if indeed he'd have written them at all. His mythos is essentially based on the fear of something alien and "other", and it's almost certain that, consciously or otherwise, he channeled his anxieties about real-world racial and cultural divides into his fictional writing. To my mind, that makes it a little harder to separate the artist from the art in this instance, as some might be inclined to suggest. Certainly it can be done, but I wonder if something is lost in doing so. I think it's important to remember that the Cthulhu mythos was written from a very dark place by a man who certainly had his own inner demons - ones we may find unsettling look at dead on (much like his cosmic horrors), but whose existence and influence shouldn't be forgotten entirely.

[@Monkismo]

He was uncomfortable about the Irish! LOL. He was a neurotic with a great imagination.

[@daltonfreeman6551]

Yeah it speaks volumes that one of the biggest plot twists in all of his writing is "the main character isn't as white as he thinks he is"

[@moralityisnotsubjective5]

@Voice of Adam I refuse to separate art from artist. Ever. A person's beliefs and mindset are a large part of the things they create for better or worse. I also enjoy and suggest Overly Sarcastic Production's take on Lovecraft and his stories. @@daltonfreeman6551 Which was based on the reality of him finding out that he was not as pure English as he thought, but was in fact (gasp!) Welsh. I guess to him that is the equivalent of finding out you are a hybrid fish man, which given his loathing of the sea and all sea life is interesting to say the least.

[@10hawell]

Lovecraft was absolutely right about everything. Btw Snake headed midgets with little drills digging themselves into my bones, they represent aborigines who are NOT human. My cat says "yo fam gib watermelon, big ass gorilla negrita yam"

[@wombathijs4560]

Disagree. Of course those things he believed were absolutely horrible. I his stories affected me before I knew about his beliefs. The fear he wrote about runs through everyone

[@AnnoyingNewslettersPage6]

I'm surprised it's taken this long to cover this topic. Dr Emily Zarka certainly sounds like a name out of a lovecraftian story 💙

[@kelvinize]

Lol definitely

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

That's no good considering the survivability rate of Lovecraft's protagonists! Eek!

[@atheistsgod]

I hear she got her doctorate at Miskatonic University so....

[@SagaDraws]

I mean it does sound quite akin to Erich Zann so🤷‍♀️

[@Svartalf14]

@@atheistsgod Don't diss the best teratology department in the whole world.

[@dasamont8274]

I'm pretty sure Lovecraft was considered quite xenophobic even for his own times, but there are letters or memoirs from the last years of his life where he shows regret for his anti-Semitism and xenophobia. He was very much a scarred and damaged man with a great fear of many things. Also, don't google the name of his cat.

[@dlxmarks]

Also every time his xenophobia and racism is discussed, no one mentions that the one group Lovecraft really had it in for was rural New England white people. Anyone who has read most of his works knows that he described them in especially demeaning and vicious terms.

[@cthulhuwu_]

@David Marks Plenty of people talk about that, wdym? One of the most known things about him was that he was even racist to “other” white people.

[@dlxmarks]

@@cthulhuwu_ Maybe his anti-rural white prejudice has been mentioned on discussion boards but I haven't seen any articles or videos that mention it; I'd like to review any that you know of. I've seen critics that only point out his racism against non-whites which is true but not the whole story. My point though is not that Lovecraft was "even racist" to certain white people. It's that he was especially derogatory towards them. In stories like _The Dunwich Horror_ or _Beyond the Wall of Sleep_ or _The Lurking Fear_ he describes rural whites in strongly offensive terms, going into detail about their physical and moral degeneration at lot more than he did against immigrants and non-whites.

[@Uulfinn]

This never gets talked about and it's frustrating. People gloss over the terrible conditions he had while living with his aunts. He was xenophobic but he was horribly mentally disturbed and scarred. He gets way more hate than he really deserves.

[@Mr.Ambrose_Dyer_Armitage_Esq.]

Why does Lovecraft's antisemitism, xenophobia, and racism have to be a problem? If anything, they touch upon a deeply prejudicial instinct in all people: the fear of the outside and outsiders seeping in and, inadvertently or otherwise, negatively affecting a theretofore homogenous and stable culture. Without that fear of the outside seeping in, without the "otherness", Cosmic Horror doesn't work as well. People say that Lovecraftian Horror can "transcend" Lovecraft and his prejudice but, it can't, and there's NOTHING wrong with that.

[@Uulfinn]

Even though he divorced his wife, the two kept in contact with each other through mail and stayed relatively close. The reason for the divorce was that Lovecraft found living in New York unbearable while she wanted to remain there. She was also very important for introducing him to other writers who were interested in his monsters and worlds.

[@KronnangDunn]

Indeed. The vídeo makes it seem that Lovecraft left her because she was Jewish

[@mymyhi9921]

@@KronnangDunn probably did he was extremely racist

[@ronofthesea5953]

@@KronnangDunn Yeah I haven't even reached that point yet and this narrative is already rubbing me the wrong way. Thanks for the warning.

[@MaryamMaqdisi]

@@KronnangDunn The video to me it sounded like his bigotry may have been influenced by a failed marriage instead, not to defend or criticize anything, just sharing my interpretation as I have no horse in this race

[@HBHaga]

@@MaryamMaqdisi Lovecraft had issues long before he got married. If anything, his time with Sonya started to soften him by exposing him to more of the world beyond Providence.

[@kennyhagan5781]

Long haired freaky person from Texas here, I discovered Mr Lovecraft at the age of twelve. I had just finished The Lord of the Rings, and was visiting my grandfather in East Texas. My uncle heard that I'd read the Tolkien so he turned me on to two old paperbacks of Lovecraft short stories. Been hooked ever since. Lovecraft was almost as wordy as Poe, but he also had a way of getting things going rather swiftly in his stories. I personally have a hard time believing that he is still underrated as an author, and I attribute that to people still not respecting the authors who made their names in pulp fiction magazines like FANTASTIC STORIES or TRUE DETECTIVE. Remember, Edgar Rice Burroughs, the guy that wrote TARZAN, kept a roof over his head and food in his belly by writing a lot of detective stories before his fantastic stuff became popular. This was before Mr Lovecraft even started writing... Slenderman and Sirenhead owe their existence to Mr Lovecraft and the way that his crazy stories have been able to become more "mainstream " in the decades since they were published. Cthulhu is the poster-boy for "alternative "culture....Metallica even did a song (instrumental) called THE CALL OF CTHULHU,of course. I believe that Mr Lovecraft would be very pleased to know that people are more interested in his work than ever. Too bad he couldn't have enjoyed some of the revenue that his creations are generating nearly a century after they were put to paper.

[@GrayNeko]

Lovecraft, for me, is to modern horror what Black Sabbath is to heavy metal. He got there first, and he did it so well that everyone after him followed in his footsteps.

[@jona826]

Excellent comment.

[@GrayNeko]

Thank you, sir! ^_^ @@jona826

[@CrazyStu33]

Love Monstrum and Dr. Z, but not using the portmanteau "cutethulu" was a sorely missed opportunity :D

[@Beedo_Sookcool]

They need to do a collab with Thew Adams. 😉

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

truth-ulu

[@johndemeritt3460]

@@Beedo_Sookcool, in case you're interested, Dr. Justin Sledge covered Lovecraft and the Occult on his Esoterica channel (kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4LXZneHhcSIp7M) four days ago. This is nothing to denigrate Dr. Z's presentation, but Dr. Sledge's goes into much greater depth at nearly 30 minutes, compared to Dr. Z's 12 minutes. I think the two takes are wonderfully complimentary, though I recommend watching the Monstrum presentation first. I think a discussion between the two would be absolutely fascinating and almost ecstatically entertaining!

[@jjstarrprod]

Cuthulu

[@abstract5249]

You beat me to it🤣

[@Pleasestoptalkingthanks]

HPL was a good writer and had some awesome concepts, though his longer works tend to be super dry and repetitive when being read on a first read through. And now that technology and society has progressed so much since his time, it opens up the avenue for even greater Cosmic horror.

[@ShirleyTimple]

It's technically science fiction, but the most incredible and terrifying cosmic horror I've read lately is Cixin Liu's 3 Body trilogy. Replace the old ones with other, different advanced alien beings lol. Just with incredible theoretical technology.

[@michaeld387]

HPL also took some…shortcuts I’ll call it with creating horror creatures. A lot of the monsters are described, at least when seen by the characters, as something along the lines of “so horrible and crazy it defies description! The non-Euclidean geometric monster was too much for my mind to handle!” Which is really putting all the work of what the creature is on the reader (and not in a clever or subtle way). I can probably chalk some of that up to when he was writing but for me, his stories really don’t hold up.

[@RainPhoenixTilla]

Too bad he was a racist bigot

[@bluemooninthedaylight8073]

@@michaeld387 It depends. The Colour Out of Space is such a nasty piece of early body horror. The way a rabbit hops at night in a way that isn't normal is the stuff of nightmares.

[@Martial-Mat]

@@michaeld387 Absolutely. I HATE that aspect of his writing, along with his overuse of words like "eldritch" "stygian" and other hyperbolic, yet intentionally vague exppressions.

[@danilooliveira6580]

I think one aspect that can't be ignored about cosmic horror, at least Lovecrafting cosmic horror, is that its not simply that we are insignificant for the superior beings, but also that their influence can't be denied. their dream can change or reality, seeing them can make us insane, or simply existing under their shadow can turn an entire city into deformed monsters. its like you burning an entire ant colony because you accidentally dropped a drop of your hot sauce on it without even realizing they were there, except here humans are the ants. the idea is probably best illustrated by Strugatsky's Roadside Picnic, since that is the central theme of the book.

[@CerealExperimentsMizuki]

Most of the beings in Lovecraft's Literature doesn't even know of or care about Humans.

[@CerealExperimentsMizuki]

@Caitlyn Carvalho that would be very odd and peculiar, quite possibly the Human would either die, gain powers or just be grossed out at how bad the food is. Or all 3 at once. Or it might even taste good like prawns or something.

[@ajchapeliere]

​@@CerealExperimentsMizuki/laughs in Attack on Titan/

[@CerealExperimentsMizuki]

@@ajchapeliere what about it??

[@MemphiStig]

If you like Lovecraft's style, you should check out Clark Ashton Smith, particularly The Averoigne Chronicles, set in a fantastically imagined area of France. His stories are much more earthly than cosmic, but they are equally dark and horrifying, and play upon Lovecraft's mythos. And HP himself was a big fan, dubbing him Klarkash-Ton, even writing a poem in tribute. Also, Metallica were Lovecraft fans, with at least two songs inspired by him, the instrumental "Call of Ktulu" and "The Thing That Should Not Be."

[@Fran_Fuentes]

Thank you for the recommendation!

[@thoughtfuldevil6069]

Yes! I have a collection of CAS anthologies I got at a yard sale when I was 16, he was such a genius with poetry and beautiful prose. There's also more of a female presence in his stories, which is probably due to his having had a far more active love life than Lovecraft did.

[@kornelsaja9633]

metallica also have "dream no more" fron hardwired which is about cthulu :D

[@dustind4694]

I maintain that Metallica played Werewolf the Apocalypse, or knew someone who did, on that note. Wolf And Man is just... It's on the nose. But yeah it's amazing how nerdy some rock and metal is.

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

Love Clark Ashton Smith's work!

[@orendungan3455]

One big redemption arc for the creation, if not necessarily for the man himself, is the enormous list of Lovecraftian short story collections. The diversity of authors and the characters they weave into the newer generations of the mythos is astounding. Most of these anthologies are definitely worth a read, particularly those edited by Paula Guran or Ross Lockhart, and most especially anything with a story by Caitlin R. Kiernan. 'Andromeda Among the Stones' is one of the very, very best. It haunted me for days.

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

Cthulhu fhtagn!

[@Giles29]

"We live on a placid island of ignorance in the mists of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far." - HPL

[@careyatchison1348]

Also the short stories of Laird Barron, before he became a detective novel writer.

[@mymyhi9921]

@Acceleration Quanta love how everyone defends his racism

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

3:47 I have...also read things from Lovecraft about how much he hated...things...other things...

[@benmason8990]

He did have letters he wrote toward the end of his life regretting his xenophobia. It's often not mentioned because the regret came late in his life.

[@mymyhi9921]

I'm going need proof

[@benmason8990]

@@mymyhi9921 just look up his correspondence from late in his life, several biographies on him and even the documentary; fear of the unknown.

[@mymyhi9921]

@@benmason8990 I have and he was racist as hell

[@benmason8990]

@@mymyhi9921 then you know his writing to Barrows about a year before he died say "I regret such views as I held in my youth..." or the fact he was married to a Jewish women? Let's be honest you probably did not read any correspondence by Lovecraft either those of his deplorable racist views in his youth or his later ones where he starts to travel and grow his narrow world view and start to lament his views.

[@williamerickson520]

It would've been interesting to see how his views continued to change had he lived to old age. I'd wager he would have completely reversed his thinking.

[@rebasack21]

I used to read a TON of horror books in middle and high school. For some reason this genre specifically really helped me escape my depression more than others. I wonder now how i never found or had any of this recommended to me.

[@brohamerer1604]

To me, HP Lovecraft is the most tragic writer to me. Because he was so close to greatness, and yet his own interpretations of life and people destroyed him

[@ValerioRhys]

HP's fear of the unknown, the fear of those who are different from us, fear of outsiders and the fear of the strange beings we cannot understand is also apparent in his politics and worldview.

[@Martial-Mat]

Absolutely. The contempt with which he describe the Mulatos (?) in Call of Cthulu screams his bigotry, and superiority complex loud and clear.

[@cavalierliberty6838]

Fear is what controls everyone's politics. Why do you think appealing to to fears is common in political campaigns?

[@ValerioRhys]

@@cavalierliberty6838 Politics used to be about maintaining civilization, why it shifted to scaring people to obey like religion instead of promising them improvement like politics is a mystery.

[@imveryangryitsnotbutter]

@@ValerioRhys Religions, governments, and corporations are all just institutions designed to help people at the top acquire resources.

[@samhaines8228]

Well spotted. The man had *issues*, but managed to convey his in an enduring mythology that manages to strike a chord with so many others (each with our own issues ).

[@cosmobane6995]

We might forget that Lovecraft never truly pass the fame of an amateur fanfic writer in his time.

[@matthewdrexler188]

Cthulhu is right there next to typhon, the leviathan, and the kraken. Its part of human mythology because it perfectly describes an aspect of the universe like all the other classical myths do. If we wern't told an author came up with it a little more than a century ago everyone would assume it was an ancient story from some long dead culture. He did a good job :)

[@geraldmartin7703]

Never understood how Cthulu elbowed its way to the front of the monster line. Maybe it's the easiest to spell.

[@DOMINATION456STUDIOS]

IVE SEEN IT So this CANT be something that people claim “oh it’s just a theory” *And I’m really going mad……*

[@matthewdrexler188]

@@DOMINATION456STUDIOS something probobly inspired Lovecraft every myth monster is there to explain something someone once experienced. Just dont do acid any time soon and look in a mirror xD

[@EayuProuxm]

The Color out of Space remains one of my favorite short stories.

[@michaelhegwood9977]

To Lovecrafts credit, the man did end up regretting his bigoted and outdated views as he meet more well traveled writers like Robert E Howard. I get the easy joke made in circles of the internet, but to an extent people are people and are more complicated than what a Twitter post may imply.

[@spidertopus]

twitter and lovecraft... yeahhh, not a very good mix especially.

[@incubustimelord5947]

Social media was a big mistake. It gave too loud of a voice to the lunatic fringe and soon, we are going to pay dearly for it.

[@spaceranger7683]

Agreed. Too many people get too hung up on HPL's views of race, gender, blah, blah, blah - which, frankly, were garden-variety viewpoints for his time. Was glad to see that this show, which seldom misses a chance to throw in some woke talking point or another, kept that done-to-death aspect of his writing to a minimum.

[@Peecamarke]

The way y’all make light of a person’s racist views like it’s a fashion choice or food preference smh

[@incubustimelord5947]

@@Peecamarke I'm a Puerto Rican-American citizen from New York City, New York. I know that here in the U.S.A. life isn't easy, but I got way too much of a tough thick skin growing up in Spanish Harlem, Manhattan Island, worrying about actual important and dangerous stuff like drug dealers, gang members, crazy homeless people, crackheads, psycho prostitutes and crooked cops to be crying over a guy who died in the 1930s. Racism is never going to end so you might as well stop with the belly aching. Harden the hell up. Life is bad enough as is. You get too sensitive over the little things, and life is going to be a lot tougher than you want it to be. So stop with the victim mentality. I don't subscribe to that reality.

[@ryanocarroll6426]

6:59 I concur and I notice something similar in Guillermo del Toro films, where he create monsters where the observer’s mind is between “this is no animal” and “not immediate scream alien, either”, at least not initially.

[@i3osco717]

Thank you for making these, i dive into each one with enthusiasm. Like many times before i ask that you do one about the skandinavian "Myling" a particular piece of folklore that was kept alive in Sweden partially with the help of author Astrid Lindgren (Pippi Longstockings) who mentions it in one of her books. It gives an insight into the harsh realities for women "back-in-the-day" before birth control and anything that can be called "sexual freedom" as well as being a terrifying creature well fitted for horror stories.

[@TheFlamimgFox]

1:42 correct me if I got this wrong but in the Mythos people have looks at Cthulhu and didn't go mad, you just need strong mental fortitude.

[@Jay-ql4gp]

I believe Lovecraft also created the 'inherited a house from a distant relative trope.' Or at least help popularize it. Every time I'm watching or reading something with that trope, my immediate thought is, "Uh-oh, this is going to get very bad." And the role playing game is truly excellent. Their Cthulhu by Gaslight, taking place in 1890's England, is absolutely wonderful.

[@shredenvain7]

The fact the Lovecraft's work is in the public domain has played a giant role in the spreading and popularity of his mythos.

[@GenerationX1984]

Cthulu simply became real after LoveCraft imagined him into existence. Now there's a creepy thought.

[@thedamnedatheist]

That is Heinleins idea in The Number of The Beast.

[@cityonfoot6023]

Before I skip the ads.. FINALLY!! I've been waiting to see the Storied take on Cthulu. Thank you!

[@nathankc4179]

It is interesting to see how cthulu is a bit of strange tales and other spooky stories kind of mascot that pops up so often. The opening to rick and morty has a cthulu like creature, as well as the simpsons doing a whole opening to their trademark halloween specials that shows how much of an icon the monster is.

[@GLSnifit]

One of my favorite games to play is 'What Reference is Dr. Z Wearing?' I think the jellyfish like dangling earrings fit with Cthulhu quite well.

[@pbsstoried]

Nailed it!-*Dr.Z*

[@marisoldavis3357]

@@pbsstoried Please make a video of giant, dwarf, elf, and Mokele-mbembe.

[@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980]

I wasn't aware that there were cute Cthulu plushies available. Suddenly I have the urge to get one. 🥰🐙

[@julietfischer5056]

Chibi Cthulhu T-shirts and toys. _The Call of Cthulhu_ done in Dr. Suess style artwork. Amazon (of course) has a lot of such merchandise. Cthulhu/Nyarlathotep, 2024!

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

They're all over the place now. lol

[@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980]

@@ChurchofCthulhu I live in Australia. We're kinda the last to know about this kind of stuff.

[@geraldmartin7703]

I still have an empty box of Cthulu breakfast cereal-- and the tiny Cthulu figurine packed inside. The cereal was terrible and I had to throw it out. (Lesson: Don't buy cereal from a bookstore).

[@johndemeritt3460]

About a year ago, I was living in Huntsville, Alabama and went to the Publix grocery store one afternoon. As I came out of the store, a bumper sticker on the back of a SUV that made me stop and almost drop my groceries laughing. It read, "Cthulhu 2024: Why Vote for the LESSER of Two Evils?" Why, indeed?

[@lizardmilk]

I feel like you could do individual episodes on each Lovecraft monsters. Old ones, deep ones, yog sothoth, cthulu, Dagon. I want more!

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

They would be really short episodes, Lovecraft only gave brief descriptions of his horrors and left the rest to imagination.

[@lizardmilk]

@@ChurchofCthulhu sure, but like all myths, it’s taken on a life if it’s own.

[@matthewstone5310]

Lovecraft's works, especially Cthulhu, have also heavily influenced the heavy metal musical genre as well. Most famously, through Metallica. Like their instrumental "The Call of Ktulu," from their 1984 album, "Ride the Lightning," as well as "The Thing That Should Not Be" from 1986's "Master of Puppets."

[@Armphid]

You have to take his issues into account and keep them in mind when reading his works, but I enjoy reading and listening to readings of his works a great deal. There's incredibly atmospheric and create such a mystical but real world though very anchored in their time. And while Cthulhu has become the rock star, the influence of Lovecraft's work on other horror writers (King, Koontz, and so many more) has made him a seminal American writer, even if many critics still poo-poo his works. Horror writing and film would not be what it is without his writing.

[@Fedorevsky]

No you really don't. In fact I don't see any reason why you should.

[@ajchapeliere]

​@@Fedorevskyquestion: is there anything about Lovecraft, or authors in general, that you think readers should keep in mind or take into account when reading a story? What about the author, if anything, do you perceive as worthy of consideration?

[@Fedorevsky]

Their writing. @@ajchapeliere

[@julietfischer5056]

Had Lovecraft created a tight, organized, Mythos-universe, he might not be so well-known today, and a number of writers either would not be known at all, or their work would have taken a different direction. There might not have been a novel titled _Psycho,_ or Marvel Comics adaptations of Robert E. Howard's works, the _Dark Tower_ series by Stephen King, or the television series _Babylon 5._ Lord Dunsany and Robert Chambers would appear in Amazon omnibuses along with other relative unknowns. By encouraging and participating in the borrowing and inventing and sharing of ideas and concepts, he gave us cosmic horror and permission to go big in horror fiction.

[@drewolds721]

I think it is interesting how much Lovecraft did fill out his mythology as well. At the Mountains of Madness he gives us a fairly clear mythological rimeline that fits much together. I think it is this combination of fitting things together and keeping the mythos super open to new additions that made the Mythos what they are today.

[@theodorepaik9126]

Thank you for the depth into the meaning/history of eldritch! It addresses something that's confused me before; I've heard myths about Odin and specifically how he lost his eye. I've heard it said that he traded his eye for "eldritch" knowledge. Is this label appropriate for what Odin got in this trade?

[@johndemeritt3460]

No, it just means he can turn a blind eye to humanity's foibles . . . .

[@CommentGirl12]

He got knowledge of various magic things, which was largely the specialty of the dead. Checks out to me. 👍

[@88smileandnod]

@@CommentGirl12 in most European traditions the dead and the fey sort of blend together, right? Like Irish ghosts and fairies, or Nordic elves/dwarves/spirits.

[@CommentGirl12]

@@88smileandnod Kind of. I can't speak for the Irish side of things, but in Nordic mythology elves and dwarves are different from each other and (human dead) spirits are a separate thing.

[@88smileandnod]

@@CommentGirl12 sounds like I need to some more reading then. Thanks!

[@sedrykleftwich2185]

Not cuthulu chilling like a little kid holding his knees waiting at the bottom of the ocean 😂😂

[@renecorrea892]

I would like all these chapters to be in the future season of Monstrum. *Sea Serpents *Leviathan *The Rake *Sleepy Hollow *Phantom Vehicles *Boogeyman *Ghosts *Possessed Dolls *Shadow People *Undead *Goblins *Bigfoot *Man-Eating Plants *Killer Clowns *Evil Robots *Swamp Monsters *The Mummy *Scarecrows *The Invisible Man *Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde *Merfolk *Demons *Skeletons *Stingy Jack (Jack-O'-Lantern) *Gnomes *Sea Monsters that attacked Submarines *Ogres *Ghouls *Lich *Cyborgs *Witches *Kaiju

[@alexischavez3238]

Those are great monsters! Would love to see it too

[@Demolitiondude]

Don't man. She'll politicize 9/10ths of that list. I regret my fan request. Werewolves being a pregnancy scare my ass.

[@Googledeservestodie]

That is certainly a lot. A lot of them look like literary monsters (Mr. Hype, Invisible Man) that should probably be left to a literature show. I know they did movie monsters in the past but that's because they're a genre, not a specific book.

[@renecorrea892]

@@Demolitiondude The Werewolves is your request?

[@Demolitiondude]

@@renecorrea892 requested them around episode 2 or 3. Before zarka became Jim bakker.

[@metalxhead]

Excellent episode!!! Possibly what I love most about Monstrum is how it discusses all media, not just "literature." So glad that you treat video games and comics like the valid, influential forms of media that they are!!! Bonus points would have been awarded for mentioning Metallica's Call of Ktulu, but given that it's an instrumental, it's forgivable. ;) Also appreciate that we can discuss Lovecraft's xenophobia AND the greatness of his stories, acknowledging that tension and how to deal with it instead of merely cancelling him for it. It feels like too many difficult conversations are simply completely avoided due to cancel culture, and we lack nuanced or informed opinions because we don't address the issues, only ignore them.

[@Toldoris]

Lovecrafts Eldritch beings are definitely not all just indifferent! While Cthulhu and many others may see humanity the same way we see ants there are entities like Nyarlathotep who not only actively mingle in human affairs but also willingly and purposefully create suffering and destruction for their own amusement. Cthulhu may be compared to a human who runs over an anthill with his car because he doesn't care. Nyarlathotep takes out his magnifying glass and burns the ants slowly one by one for fun!

[@pdzombie1906]

Great as usual, Dr. Z!! I once bought a copy of the Necronoma... Necronoma... the book of the dead!!!

[@cindys9491]

Did you say the magic words! ;)

[@royalripper7453]

Small mistake in the video 5:15 Lovecraft's racist and xenophobic views were there since he was young , likely both because of how society was and his very sheltered (even abusive) upbringing after his grandfather passed away and his mother had to take care of him. Overtime he actually toned down his behavior and thinking by a lot His marriage failed because of financial reasons and from all i could find , they still had a good relationship . And a little bit of info almost everyone seems to overlook: to the end of his life , he actually begun to regret his previous views and realized how wrong he was (thanking his friends from around the world , for helping him realize this)

[@royalripper7453]

Ah also ! Lovecraft apparently loved when others took inspiration from his works , so i could see him finding cute Cthulhu quite funny

[@autumnphillips151]

Correction: There is no “Scottish” language. There’s Scottish Gaelic (a Goidelic, Celtic language spoken by only 1% of Scots) in the Highlands and Hebrides and then there’s Scots (an Anglic, Germanic language spoken by 30% of Scots) in the Lowlands and Northern Isles. And there are different theories as to the origins of the word “eldritch”. Here are some of them: “From the earlier form elritch, of uncertain origin. The second element, -ritch, is generally taken to be Old English rīċe (“realm, kingdom”) (see riche). Some think that the first element, el-, derives from an Old English root meaning "foreign, strange, other" (related to Old English ellende and modern English else); others think that it derives from elf.” “The word dates back to the 16th century and may have its origin in the Middle English word elfriche, meaning “fairyland.” (The two components of elfriche-“elf” and “riche”-come from the Old English words ælf, “elf,” and rīce, “kingdom.”)” “early 16th century (originally Scots): perhaps related to elf.”

[@tomkerruish2982]

Prior to the rpg Call of Cthulhu, the mythos was included in D&D in the AD&D book Deities and Demigods, at least in early editions.

[@TB-1927]

10:46 I know right? Even his pet cat is named weird

[@mindykanitz6255]

You're not even gonna mention how Cthulhu also made appearances in some TV shows such as The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy and South Park?

[@cindys9491]

BP oil spill accidentally unleashed him lol

[@Bysthedragon]

I find the idea that in the grand scheme of the cosmos humans have no purpose not a horrifying idea but a hopeful one. We don't need the universe to acknowledge us in order to matter, we all have the power to determine our own purpose, and we gotta take care of one another because as far as we know we are all we got.

[@TheHornedKing]

That's how I see it too.

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

Cthulhu fhtagn!

[@brianstewart23]

And yet, if the universe were fractionally larger or smaller, we couldn't exist.

[@DominantBtch]

Interesting I think the opposite

[@TheVoidSinger]

Thanks for being one of the few that doesn't shy away from the full picture, but rather places it in the context of the time. It's a welcome improvement on the too frequent sugar coated hero worship.

[@Peecamarke]

Amen to that 👏

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

slime coated

[@spidertopus]

Vast majority people do acknowledge his ignorance, just that, that's not what people admire or recognize him for. Since well, no one really cares about the racism part, as it's not the main attraction. It's 2022 after all, gotta get with the times somehow.

[@cchoge]

Oh please, she barely touched on it, and smiled as she talked about his “anti semitism and xenophobia” when it was really unapologetic white supremacy. People need to let Lovecraft go and get on with creating something new. You’re all being apologists for an absolutely terrible human.

[@CryptidMech]

@@cchoge Cope harder

[@stefanjakubowski8222]

My favorite "mythos" book is Colin Wilson's the Philosopher Stone Where humans begin to discover and hone their own abilities to stand up to or with the beings when they rise...

[@nwahally]

I am not a great friend of commercialization normally. But I think that in the case of Lovecraft's Cthulu it has a rather interesting political implication. Because it radically undermines Lovecraft's deep nihilism and anti-humanism and that is something I think is valuable. Cosmic Horror is a good thing to explore some parts of human existence, a certain mood one might be drawn to now and then. But this can be turned in a therapeutic way, to ultimately deny the notion of humanity's irrelevance and turn it from its head on its feet. And to realize that it is the other way around. Humanity is not meaningless. Humanity is the very thing that creates meaning. This world is ours, unreserved. There is power and dignity in that. It can also be a terrifying burden, because this world then becomes our responsibility and whatever it may become - humanity is responsible for that. Paradise or hell on earth - humanity made that reality.

[@zionleach3001]

Really? I've never read Lovecraft but I do know most of his genre boils down to "in the grand scheme of things humanity is no more significant than bacteria.

[@nwahally]

@@zionleach3001 Oh, you're not wrong by any means. That is the core of Lovecraft and of Cosmic Horror. My point is that this genre can be a great vehicle to explore feelings of redundancy and meaninglessness which are undoubtedly a part of human existence - the feelings, not meaninglessness itself. Both the author's writing and the reader's interpretation can go beyond the textual meaning. You can write a story of Cosmic Horror without the intent of making it an explanation of the world and you can read such a story and realise that the premises of the story have no root in reality and that the very acts of writing and such a story for enjoyment - and finding pleasure and meaning in it - is ultimately defying of the nihilism. In a similar way dystopias and satires paint grim pictures of the world - but are actually more of a "how-not-to" guild, a dar mirror of a sensible understanding of the world.

[@zionleach3001]

@@nwahally yeah Hellboy and Larry Correia's Monster Hunter series have something similar. They show that even Cosmic horrors have weaknesses. Liz could destroy a Ogdru-Hem. In Monster Hunter Vendetta nukes could harm them. While a ward-stone could destroy them. I think there's a trope called "Did you punch Cthulhu in the face?"

[@nwahally]

@@zionleach3001 Hellboy is actually a great example of this that I never even considered. Oo

[@jasonsantos3037]

Finally we see the great old one himself may get in your channel

[@merlapittman5034]

Talk about a great coincidence! I've just been going through the Lovecraft and Cthulu mythos stories again by listening to them on Horrorbabble. I've been a fan of these since I was a teen. I've really been enjoying Monstrum - great videos and very interesting! Thanks for this one and all the others!

[@jeffbtvs]

The Shadow out of Time is one of my favorite stories to date. Listened or read most of what Lovecraft had to offer, but that story always gets me.

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

Cthulhu fhtagn!

[@rafaelalodio5116]

I think Lovecraft is my favorite author, even though he wrote certain things that are very reprehensible nowadays if you separate the work from the author his creation and worldbuild is brilliant.

[@Kestas_X]

The illustration of Cthulhu in Here is awesomely grotesque beyond the depictions I know

[@arnabbhattacharjee3618]

Was wondering when Dr.Z would cover cosmic monsters. Finally!!

[@Marie-i5y]

My favorite part of the series is watching the end, just to see the Doctor mess up. It's cute. Good work!

[@shoesncheese]

Thank you for pronouncing "R'lyeh" closer to how it should be pronounced. So many people say "Re-lay" which just irks my octopus. I'm a big fan of the Mythos, both what Lovecraft created and what his contemporaries and all those who came later created. The fact that none of it is precise is what makes it seem so real. Everybody has a slightly different take and they are all correct because they are trying to describe things that are beyond our ability to fully comprehend. I like to think about Cosmic Horror with a simple parable: we are no more than motes of dust and, when we call out to these things, when we court their attention... well, what do we do when dust gets in our eyes? I also don't think enough attention is given to his Dream Cycle which is kind of tangential to the Mythos as a whole. He has a really vivid idea of what the Dreamlands are. I think the Dream Cycle has impacted me even more so than the Mythos.

[@_Mozarrk]

You can't, in the same breath, say it irks you when people pronounce the name wrong, but also say it's all unknowable. Like Lovecraft even said we can't pronounce the names correctly. So, who cares?

[@solalabell9674]

Really I often hear ‘earl-yay’ more often

[@Chestbridge]

I hope we can at least agree that Arthur Machen should not be pronounced "match-en"! :D

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

Oh really, eh? 🤣

[@shoesncheese]

@@_Mozarrk I assume it's written phonetically to give us an approximation of how to pronounce it. "re-lay" is further away than "r'lyeh" from how it was supposed to sound. I've even seem "urilla" like in the Simon Necronomicon and that's closer to how Lovecraft spelled it. If a letter were not necessary, it would not be present. For Cthulhu, you cannot ignore the "h". It's not kutulu, it's k'thool-hoo or k't'hool-hoo. But, then again, they are made up names so it could be something entirely different. I just wish people would put more thought into how and why the specific letters were chosen in the way these names were originally written.

[@ehaaven]

Thank you, this was very educational.

[@johnsteiner3417]

I'm reminded of Mass Effect, which is a sci-fi game that draws heavily on Lovecraftian themes. The main antagonists, the Reapers are described by one characters, "The Geth [AI civilization] think Sovereign is god. A pinnacle of their own evolution. But the reaction of their deity is most telling. It is insulted. Sovereign doesn't desire the devotions that the Geth hurl at it. They are merely tools."

[@l.kingdon4531]

this channel is awesome. Great work to everyone on this team!

[@haeuptlingaberja4927]

The phenomenon of Lovecraft's Cthulhu is unique among the many dark godlings of literary horror. It really has far outgrown the boundaries of books and films, to an extent that would probably shock old HP, especially in its intersection with conspiracy theory and popular culture. Sort of a dark analog to the spirit of the age thing that happened with music and psychedelia in the late 60s. My favorite treatment of this "meta" phenomenon is in the works of authors like Neal Stephenson and, especially, Robert Anton Wilson who basically thought the whole thing was silly. Stephenson's Cryptonomicon both dipped into Lovecraft's world and made fun of it at the same time. It's actually quite an entertaining book, even for those who don't care for his other books or Lovecraft. But it's in Wilson's epic cult classic trilogy Illuminatus! that the most fun is to be found. Co-written with Robert Shea, whom Wilson met when they were both writing weird, sarcastic essays for Playboy magazine in the early 70s, Illuminatus! is an hilarious, rip roaring adventure that shredded the conspiracy theory industry when it was still in its infancy. It reads like an extended Firesign Theatre album in book form, if you're familiar with those geniuses. In fact, you can get a fair, if highly farcical facsimile of the Illuminatus experience here on KZbin by checking out the Firesign Theatre's magnificent "Everything You Know Is Wrong" album and film. Life will never be the same after you've heard and/or seen that madness. What all of these things have in common, however, is that they drift quite far from Lovecraft's creepy universe.

[@cameron260]

Definitely a good overview with some great shout outs for modern cosmic horror that directly addresses some of the problems that the man himself inserted into his work. Overly Sarcastic Productions also did a really great halloween special talking more specifically about a select few of his works (iirc, Call of Cthulu, Cold Air, A Shadow over Innsmouth, and maybe one or two others that are escaping me) that I also highly reccomend if you liked this video!

[@JoseMorales-lw5nt]

For those curious about a great tribute to Lovecraft's Cthulhu, check out THE COLLECT CALL OF CTHULHU, a great episode of THE REAL GHOSTBUSTERS that brings the 4 paranormal investigators face to face with the Cosmic horror itself!

[@vxicepickxv]

I remember watching it on KZbin.

[@brianbuck70]

That's a great episode. Not only is it a wonderful tribute to Lovecraft and the mythos, it's also played straight (for a kids show). The episode doesn't play down or sugarcoat anything for the kiddies. Cthulhu has a different design from the way Lovecraft described him but he's depicted as an apocalyptic threat.

[@JojobaNutOil]

I'd like to see monstrum cover a few popular beings from the lovecraftian universe! Like shub niggurath , azathoth, dunwich horror(one of my fav) etc

[@AngryKittens]

You should do an episode of famous fictional books that were never really written. The _Necronomicon_ is the most famous one. Another is Dean Koontz's _The Book of Counted Sorrows_ (I genuinely tried to research its existence as a kid, pre-internet). EDIT: Researching it now, he actually DID publish a book because of people like me harassing librarians for the book. 😂

[@juno3281]

i remember being very disappointed when i found out the necronomicon didn’t actually exist-

[@blakethompson-dodd9874]

Or the king in yellow.

[@RemainIndoorsPainting]

The King In Yellow is particularly hard to research, everyone who finds a real copy goes insane reading it.

[@Sara3346]

Another very notable one was the Treatise of the Three Impostors.

[@FantasticExplorers]

Heck yeah!

[@moedab138]

Can you do a video about the different alien beings in Cosmic Eldritch Horror

[@andrewspecht6360]

The sailors at the end of The Call of Cthulhu sure as heck experienced him first hand! Please do your research!

[@jasoncummings4756]

I live for the bloopers at the end

[@RSEFX]

Well done. I was first exposed to Lovecraft in the very early 60's, somehow thinking he was quite well-known. Ha. I actually only really like a handful of his stories (having read all of them...except the ghostings), but the ones I like I strongly like, THE CALL OF CTHULHU among them. Tried to launch a film based on the HPL "realm" in the early-mid-70's, but it was not to be. However, POLTERGEIST seems to have gotten some inspiration from a script I co-developed, which, I've heard, had been in the hands of the producers. But...extremely hard to prove any kind of direct "rip-off".

[@ZeMaffin]

Y'all should look up a game called Smite. They have a playable Cthulhu with cosmetic skins and their newest skin for him is called Cthuwu

[@wimvanderstraeten6521]

Recommended for Lovecraft fans: - The anthology movie Necronomicon (1993). Jeffrey Combs (Herbert West in Re-Animator) plays H.P. Lovecraft. - The Call of Cthulhu (2005), a very faithful black-and-white and silent movie version of the Lovecraft story - Dagon (2001) - The Haunted Palace (1963) with Vincent Price, an adaptation of The Case of Charles Dexter Ward. I've read some of Lovecraft's stories like The Call of Cthulhu, Herbert West: Re-Animator, The Shadow over Innsmouth (my personal favorite), From Beyond, Dagon and The Hound (the first story in which the Necronomicon is mentioned). Lovecraft also corresponded with Robert E. Howard, the creator of Conan the Barbarian, who also wrote some horror stories in the vein of Lovecraft's work himself.

[@Beedo_Sookcool]

I think there's also an episode of a recent "Scooby Doo" series where Jeffrey Combs plays a cosmic-horror author named H.P. Hatecraft . . . .

[@johndemeritt3460]

Don't forget "The Night Gallery" short "Professor Peabody's Last Lecture" (Season 2, Episode 8) in which Professor Peabody invokes one of the beings from Lovecraftian lore . . . .

[@jeffdemas9521]

Don't forget about the movie, The Unammable (1988)

[@GravesRWFiA]

I found Lovecraft in college in the 80's In western New England. living across the street from a cemetery with a room mate that would go home for the weekend leaving me alone with my books

[@Brownyman]

For those who don't know, and not many do, "Babadook" is based on a true story - H.P. Lovecraft's childhood. The basement represents the insane asylum where his father died of syphilis which remember destroys your brain. His mother many years later was committed to the very same institution - the basement. Sara was her name, and after her husbands death she cut her and her son off from society seldom leaving the house. Lovecraft rarely attended school, had no childhood friends, and was consider abnormal by the other children and their parents. Sarah and Howard, they quickly went mutually insane together. Though despite this the Lovecraft home was full of books with Sara reading to H.P. often to help him sleep. At the age of 6 Howard began having night terrors of shadowed faceless men that were so acute he would be left trembling for days. His mother took to calling him grotesque and that he was never to leave her side. The abuse escalated rapidly. In the end though, fortunately, he was able to show his Babadook who was boss and he got out into the wider world. Thanks to that we know his story and all the ones he created. Sadly though what he called "grippe" did get in. It was cancer, and he died at only 46.

[@incubustimelord5947]

Cool story. It doesn't change the fact that the Babadook was still a shitty movie regardless. Maybe if they had made it a lot more accurate to the book then the film wouldn't have been so stupid.

[@LuisSierra42]

@@incubustimelord5947 on the other hand, The Babadook is one of my favorite movies ever. I literally give it a 10/10

[@incubustimelord5947]

@@LuisSierra42 Eh, to each their own. One person's priceless is another person's worthless, and vice versa. 🤷‍♂️

[@Marcos750418]

@@incubustimelord5947 It doesn't change that fact because It isn't one. That's called an "opinion", friend. Anyway, I didn't knew that about the Babadook, really interesting stuff.

[@julietfischer5056]

The movie is about grief and loss, not Lovecraft's childhood.

[@pagano60]

Maybe Dr. Z could do a video about "The King in Yellow," both the book and the works it has influenced.

[@Domdrok]

When I first came across Lovecraft, I couldn't believe I hadn't heard of it before. It's pretty much the horror I seek out.

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

The stars are right! 🐙🌠

[@Infernallycharged]

Being a story writer looking for inspiration. I find the fact that you posted this less than 24 hours ago as a sign that I’m on the right track

[@Nyartatouille]

I found the most terrifying things in the call of cthulu are both cthulu's body being gigantic, at least several kilometres tall, but mostly the fact cthulu is a more-than-three-dimensional being, whose mind is incomparably larger than humans, which means his plots are probably extremely more complex than "when the stars align, We'll come back and liberate humanity from moral shackles."

[@Flesh_Wizard]

Big Mandelbrot Squidward

[@CGV_CTown23]

Thank you! Fantastic work. Subscribed.

[@shawnperry5991]

My favorite Cthulhu Mythos influence is Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated. The Harry Dresden series has an ever-expanding existential horror element, and I look forward to seeing how far it will go. Harry's mother had a plan to take on the Outsiders, and we're slowly learning more!

[@AnnoyingNewslettersPage6]

Call of Cthulhu: you don't win, you just do a little better each time

[@supersonico9364]

I’ve always been attracted to cosmic horror but it was not until later in life that I learned what this particular genre was called and who invented it, I suffer from Asperger’s and life has been strange and chaotic that feeling of helplessness, isolation and confusion it’s always present just like in cosmic horror… it is what it is 🐙

[@KosMik_Skul]

i think Cthulhu is such a terrifying concept that society had to try to tame it n comedify it. like society does with everything, especially things that are a threat to it, or at least antithesis to it, like some kind of alien virus that assimilates everything into it. we turned the eldritch and cosmic into cute bs. we're the monster. as usual. (not that it actually changes anything, but it makes us feel better)

[@LimSiege]

I wonder if Dr. Z will ever do a video about SCP. Its basically communal mythmaking.

[@Pantheragem]

"Underwater" was an unexpected surprise for Cthulhu fans.

[@LastNameTom]

All these HP videos talk a out his racism, but they for some reason, always leave out how he regretted having those views later in his life. It's like, they want people to think he was a raciat his whole life.

[@DanielTaylor42]

is the cursed book in Evil Dead a reference to Lovecraft's Necronomicon? curious if you'd consider a video on cursed books

[@aaronlutes2126]

Ballad of Black Tom was such a good read!

[@whilykitt]

This is delightful!

[@NewMessage]

Looks like I picked the wrong day to cook calamari.

[@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980]

🤣 ROTFLMAO! Well Played My Friend, Well Played Indeed! 👏🙌👍

[@kelvinkirkland6068]

Thank you for this video awesome job

[@Lowlandlord]

Where is My Shoggoth is one of my favourite children's books. It's also worth noting that he did apparently recant some of his earlier xenophobia (although I am uncertain of the specifics and degree) in the '30s under Roosevelt. Doesn't excuse it all, but is worth noting that even he didn't back all the bullshit by the end.

[@fu3zy]

baby cthulhuis adorable. and my friend used to have a cthulu Christmas tree topper

[@choedzin]

On his Esoterica channel, Justin Sledge recently posted an excellent video about Lovecraft, concentrating on the occult texts mentioned in L.'s works. Well worth viewing.

[@freedomandrantforall]

Very enjoyable. Keep up the good work.

[@1Kapuchu100]

As someone who is currently listening to Call of Cthulu, this was a nice timing!

[@ishtarian]

The idea that Lovecraft was "largely ignored" by critics and the public for that 20 year period, while not without some truth to it, is far from accurate. Even before his death, he had begun to acquire a certain amount of recognition from some minor critics here and there; and by the mid-1940s, such figures as Poe scholar T. O. Mabbott had not only written several rather glowing reviews of Lovecraft's work, but also acknowledged him as being himself a Poe scholar of some note, crediting him with solving at least two long-standing problems in the field; he also wrote a brief but quite effusive essay for the posthumous volume, "Marginalia", published by Arkham House in 1944 ("H. P. Lovecraft: An Appreciation"). It was, in fact, this essay to which Edmund Wilson referred in his own dismissal of Lovecraft's work, "Tales of the Marvellous and Ridiculous", when he expressed dismay that someone of Mabbott's stature would say such things as he did in that little essay. It was largely due to Wilson's ex-cathedra pronouncements as the then "Dean of Critics", that cast Lovecraft into the shadows. Yet Mabbott was far from alone. William Rose Benet wrote that his brother Stephen Vincent Benet had been an admirer of Lovecraft's writing; his work was included in the books for the armed services series of popular editions, selling a quite respectable number of copies; such writers as Fritz Leiber, Robert Bloch, who were already making something of a reputation for themselves well outside the Lovecraftian penumbra; and he remained an iconic, if controversial, figure throughout those years in the science fiction/fantasy realm. By the late 1940s and early 1950s, he was already acquiring a reputation placing him almost on the level of Poe in the eyes of various critics, artists, and writers in Europe (particularly France, Italy, Spain, and Germany), and even such a figure as Jorge Luis Borges, while obviously having a rather ambivalent view of him at times, also wrote some statements which well incidated he took him quite seriously, even to the point of including a brief hommage in fictional form in his collection, "The Book of Sand". And, as far as being ignored by editors... stories by Lovecraft were included in books edited by Dashiell Hammett as early as the 1930s; as well as two of the outstanding collections of "weird", terror, and supernatural tales: "Great Tales of Terror and the Supernatural" (Modern Library, 1944; ed. by Herbert A. Wise and Phyllis Fraser), and "... And the Darkness Falls" (World Publishing Co., 1946; ed. by Boris Karloff). (For those who think of Karloff in connection with -- to use his preferred term -- "tales of terror" only as an actor, he was actually quite a well-read man, who had given considerable thought to what comprises the essence of such tales; see, e.g., his very astute introduction to his earlier "Tales of Terror", World Publishing Co., , 1943, a rather impressive selection in itself.) And academic papers were already being submitted as early as 1950 in the U.S. (James Warren Thomas' "H. P. Lovecraft: A Self-Portrait", Brown, 1950 -- admittedly, a hostile view, albeit an important indication that he was at least taken seriously); though it was only in the 1960s that more thoughtful examinations of his work began to be seen here, with Arthur S. Koki's "H. P. Lovecraft: An Introduction to His Life and Writings" and Barton L. St. Armand's "H. P. Lovecraft: The Outsider in Legend and Myth" (1965); while such things as Maurice Levy's "L'univers fantastique de H. P. Lovecraft" (University of Paris at the Sorbonne, 1969; later revised as "Lovecraft ou du fantastique" in 1972; trans. by S. T. Joshi as "Lovecraft: A Study in the Fantastic", Wayne State University Press, 1988) were making major strides in the field. In other words... while by no means a household name, Lovecraft was not quite as neglected or forgotten as is still commonly believed; even in this "fallow" period, there were not lacking critics, academics, and artists and writers who championed his work and saw him as an important writer not only of weird fiction, but in the larger context of American and even world literature of the 20th century.