How Different Are Shimano 105 & Dura-Ace?

Shimano brought out a new version of its 105 groupset in 2018, but how does it compare to the top of the range Dura-Ace? We’re going to show you, and even attempt a blind riding test! Can we feel the difference when we can’t see it?! Shimano R7000 vs Shimano R9100, let's see if we can tell...
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[@gcn]

Do you think you'd be able to tell the difference? Let us know if you're lucky enough to ride either of these!

[@vrushalideshpande3624]

No. I use ultegra rim brake di2.

[@gregboyd5815]

fwiw among the N+1 collection Dura Ace is just that little bit nicer not to mention the tiny weight saving going uphill :) also braking is noticeable better, just otherwise marginal gains, unless you have deeep pockets save your $$

[@weitu0]

I ride 105 R7000. It's absolutely a good choice of its price.

[@jimmythefish]

Rode 105 for years. Loved it. Don't think I could tell a difference. I understand some pro teams will ride Ultegra components because of the UCI weight issues. Clearly there's not much in it performance-wise.

[@jimbobthe2ndorthe3rd76]

I'd be able to tell as soon as I touched the cold metal 105 levers and the warmer DA composite levers!

[@UnseenSpirit]

Dura ace is better. I'm on 105 and my girlfriend dumped me for a guy who has dura ace

[@shinrips]

Lol I once heard that a girl dumped a guy because her boyfriend had a Chevy 350 small block. The new guy had a 351, I think it was Cleveland. True story.

[@solitaryrefinement6787]

Hey man, I know this is kind of awkward, but she asked me to ask you if she can get her Hootie & The Blowfish CD back? She said she knows you only kept it out of spite. No pressure dude, whenever you're ready. We still ridin' Tuesday? 😂

[@user-in8lv4nj2y]

优秀

[@SinnerSince1962]

She should have waited until you dropped him on the climb before she decided to do that....

[@baronvonhoughton]

Proper funny, good work.

[@howheels]

I'm an amateur racer with a Dura Ace 9100 groupset. I am consistently beaten by my teammates with 105. I can only conclude that I need an even higher level groupset. Shimano please

[@icemarkom]

It’s such a shame bad components make you suffer so. I hope they make them better. Disgraceful. ;-)

[@donmichigan8201]

It's all those slow gears

[@rafaelrodriguez2931]

You just need to train harder!

[@therealpinkyskull]

Nope you just need higher level legs

[@confuzionn4843]

mate you need more carbon that's all, replace your legs with carbon, and save some grams.

[@nikok.8811]

I drive Ultegra but dream of Dura Ace. My bank clerk told me drive Sora.

[@rovitesh510]

Hahaha

[@ronaldputra1177]

Yoo dudee 😩😁😂😂

[@zacharycat603]

Have used both and unless you are are very competitive in races there isn't enough difference to justify the extra cost IMHO. Or are friends with someone who can get it at dealer's cost.

[@nicolasribes8394]

I havé got thé same problème

[@greenkawasemi]

I bursted out laughing when I understood the meaning

[@palicar]

105 for the people.

[@Northwindbreeze]

Exactly, dura - ace for the real pros. Invest your money on wheels for example.

[@daicha0624]

NorthWind I think so too. 105 is good balance between price and ability. And 105user can invest wheels.

[@solitaryrefinement6787]

@@Northwindbreeze OR...get Dura Ace AND great wheels. 👍

[@Northwindbreeze]

@@solitaryrefinement6787 we gotta agree, if money allows, invest in something that gives you a especial feeling, but if money isn't available as much as many wish, calculate the pro and cons and get your prize. You, if you can.... Great for you man! Have a great buy!

[@solitaryrefinement6787]

@@Northwindbreeze Yep. I never saw purchasing decisions as an either/or mandate. You get what you can now, then get what you can later as funds allow. I never saw where in the "rule book" it says that you can only buy a flagship groupset or an upgrade wheelset. I don't know why if someone buys one, for the rest of their lives, they can't buy the other! LOL As if they are only going to get that little expenditure once in their lives! 😆

[@MatthewWalker_93_]

the best video yet! After 6 years of riding ultegra, i bought a pair of 105 sti's and zingo... they're great. zero difference. saved 200 bucks.

[@jirdesteva]

The price difference for the average daily rider is probably the most important thing, I believe the best performance gain would come from loosing some of my personal weight. One less pizza slice a week should do it.

[@sln9360]

This is my comment as well, even being in good shape, albeit not the pro-cycling body type, I weight in at 190 LBS, if I stopped working out I might be able to drop to 180, maybe. Is the 1 lbs (1/2 Kilo) really going to make a difference on a 190 lbs rider. I would say not in the slightest, even in hill climbs.

[@9034833838]

Haven't had a pizza since march. LEt's see how far this train rides

[@HeatherSpoonheim]

Thanks for this - you've convinced me that I made a shrewd choice in going for 105. I'm not interested in electronic shifting, not worried about a few hundred grams - I have kilos to shed from my own frame before worrying about my bike frame - so given the price point, 105 is exactly what I should be riding.

[@MRDTBOSS]

I feel the same!

[@oldmate86]

This is such a good point. How many riders out there go for the lightest/most expensive gear without first looking to their own physical weight

[@poeryudo]

Exactly

[@chrism5433]

Me too .cheers 🍺

[@jshepard5840]

This all goes back to the old saying "don't buy upgrades, ride up grades". For the difference in cost, you could literally buy another bike (gravel, cross, mountain) and have twice the fun.

[@livibam]

Why pick, do both

[@jeffk464]

much cheaper to take 400 grams off your gut.

[@bishplis7226]

take a piss before you ride, saves you a a whole wheelset in weight @@jeffk464

[@andrewnorris5415]

@@livibam Well, you could, but vast majority of people would be working all hours to get that and have no free time! That's why! It takes a lot more man hours to make a Dura-ace group set - and it also uses some rare materials that are harder to find. Some richer people (not saying you) - don't seem to appreciate money.

[@livibam]

@@andrewnorris5415 well I have dura ace on 2 bikes and sram force 1x on another. I work hard and I absaloutley appreciate where money comes from.

[@andyhaochizhang]

Alternative title: Man falls in love with his rear derailleur.

[@rollinrat4850]

As a mechanic, old school retro grouch, and avid rider of 45 years, 105 are the best bang for the buck and work just fine. The weight probably wont make a big difference to the average user. If anything, splurge on shifters, hubs and wheels. That being said, if you value quality, taking the best care of your kit and long lasting durability , the higher end components use better bearings, materials and are manufactured to closer more exacting tolerances. That means they last longer and are sometimes easier to maintain. Stay with steel cassettes. I have 25 year old Chris King hubs with the original bearings. I have 40 year old Campy Record hubs still ridden daily on my fixed gear commuter, still smooth as new. I still have a Dura Ace 7400 7 speed bike that works practically as well as it did in the 80s. its the fastest most solid shifting bike Ive owned, Due to the short cables and 6” of housing! I still regularly ride 1st and 2nd generation XTR and Saint that work great and has been used really hard on mtn and ‘cross bikes. XTR are the best cantis ever made! Shifters still working perfect! I see no reason to replace any of this stuff. It performs in a completely satisfactory manner. I get to test, wrench on and demo all the new drool worthy bikes and kit, lots of nice stuff but I see no practical advantages to replace any of my old stuff. I still ride hard at 57 and Im not too much slower!!

[@treygray2817]

I was told that 9 speed is better because the chain is thicker. Any truth to that?

[@rollinrat4850]

Seymour Gray Maybe the chain is a little stronger under heavy loads during gear shifts, but it wouldn't make a difference with a properly installed chain. Much less for someone who knows how to shift. Chains always break at their weakest point, which means either someone didn't connect it proplerly and or theyre forcing shifts. 7, 8, 9 speed are really easy to tune and they dont require ultra precision. I use Shimano XT or XTR 8, 9 or 10 speed drivetrains now. Even on my 'cross & touring bike's with friction shifters. Old XT was made in Japan. It was definitely better quality than the newer versions produced elsewhere. Sram makes the entry level 12 Speed SX Eagle drivetrain and its so Cheap and imprecise it hard to get it shift well across the entire cassette. Never buy Sram. Just isn't worth the money.

[@treygray2817]

@@rollinrat4850 I have 9-speed Ultegra 6500 on one bike... It shifts better than my 11-speed Campagnolo Potenza! I'm probably building my next bike with 9-speed Sora R3000. Never ridden it but heard it's great. 9-speed chains and cassettes are absurdly cheap and I can use my old wheelsets that aren't 11-speed compatible.

[@treygray2817]

@@rollinrat4850 Hahaha about SRAM... I knew an old guy who was phenomenally knowledgeable about cycling. He despised SRAM!

[@MrChippinator]

I just “settled” for a Tiagra cause I couldn’t get the 105 version (COVID problems), honestly that might be the new best value groupset. It’s phenomenal value for money.

[@fuzzymuppet1990]

That time that you get dropped by a guy riding a 35 lb single speed cruiser bike that's all rusted out with a baby seat in the back and 10 lbs of air pressure in his tires, while he's smoking a cigarette on a hill.. Puts things into perspective real quick lol

[@1Patient]

Quit smoking those Ciggs and Smoke what Real Single Speeders Smoke, Weed ;-)

[@deusexaethera]

What you described was entirely plausible...except for the rusty chain and flat tires. Those two simple maintenance oversights will waste _so much_ energy that even a biking noob on a well-maintained bike could outpace a pro on a rusty bike. ...on flat ground, anyway. Uphill, the pro on the rusty bike would win, but they would be hating life by the time they got to the top of the hill.

[@deusexaethera]

@@1Patient: Weed smoke is still smoke, brah. Cigarette smoke might be _extra_ bad for your lungs, but weed smoke is bad for your lungs too. There is no such thing as smoke that _isn't_ bad for your lungs.

[@ItsDaJax]

Nix the rust, baby seat, flat tires, and you have me; dropping people on my built Cranbrook.

[@bengrad5478]

I regularly smoke roadies - meanwhile I'm on a fully loaded touring bicycle using flat pedals and wearing sandals. In my experience roadies spend way too much time coasting.

[@Gallyga]

The weight saving I could make off my belly, in cycling manufacturing terms, would normally cost me about £6,000.

[@asisqueezylovediary6474]

Yes I think belly liposuction cost less lol

[@BrateTebra123]

It is not the same

[@simonrajh]

@@BrateTebra123 Its even better. If the rider gets rid of the fat then weight distribution is better and gravity center is lower

[@BrateTebra123]

@@simonrajh No, you become lighter and less stronger. Lighter rider could not press on the pedals as hard and also it is more beneficial to reduce bike weight by 1kg then lose 1kg of fat.

[@simonrajh]

@@BrateTebra123 If you burn 1kg of _fat_ (fat, not weight) then this shouldnt have effect on muscle weight/function (in ideal world).

[@TriRussell1]

I would like to see a comparison between 105 and Ultegra since I’m definitely not a pro so I will never be buying Dura-Ace.

[@404nobrakes]

5:20 The "Shadow plus" designation applies to derailleurs that have clutches (ie Ultegra RX and mountain groups). The road derailleurs are just "shadow".

[@Gryffes]

How about a generation comparison? 5800 vs 8000. 8000 vs 9000 , 9000 vs 9100 etc.

[@gcn]

That's a corking idea!

[@milanbabic92]

@@gcn Maybe but that's too much work for a minuscule differences.

[@francislai5270]

I think you mean 5800 vs 7000, 6800 vs 8000, 9000 vs 9100?

[@jonnelsonjdn]

I had 105 5700 and it shifted quite poorly. My oldest road bike with Sora 3300 from 2003 shifted more reliably. With their refinements in 5800 and 7000 I would find comparing those generations to 5700 very interesting. Like what mechanical improvements in just a few years have made it so much better that now performance really is on par with Dura-Ace?

[@francislai5270]

@@jonnelsonjdn I agree, riding 5700, 6700 and 7900 10 spds vs beyond generations had noticeable differences. I would even say the previous gen 5600s shifted even better than 5700 gen. I think mainly This was because the shifting before was external from the handlebar and housing were exposed in the front. Cleaner routes, simpler, better leverage, less friction. 5700 gen was the first gen that shoved cables inside handlebar tape and shifter grip area diameter was massive. It took more force to shift IMO, especially when the cables got dirty internally, my bike was literally almost stuck to shift. 5800 gen IMO was a massive improvement with the smooth shifting as smooth as 5600 gen, yet shoved in handlebar. To tackle front shift friction they came up with long arm leverage front derailleur and the lever size shrunk significantly. Over time smoothness didn't deteriorate as well. 11 SPD too. They did sorcery with the lever design in here. 7000 has all of the above but lever size shrunk even more. Crank stiffness per weight improved, rear derailleur comes stock with semi long cage to house up to 30t cassette. And front derailleur had complete redesign (although harder to route) had easy leverage and a integrated cable tension option on the mech. This was the gen that 105 has the least difference with DA. There is not a better time to get 105, it's pretty darn sweet.

[@richym2020]

There's GCN España, soon they'll be GCN Italia. I think there's clearly an opening for a spin off series, 50 shades of GCN.

[@williamkeys5701]

I have 105 and Ultegra and can honestly say that I feel no difference in the quality of shifting. This result was not a surprise to me. Good on Shimano for giving you carte blanche on this video.

[@michaeljbrennan3728]

William Keys I saw a interview with a Shimano exec in their R and D department. He said they want to maintain the same level of performance across their group set line. The only differences are the higher the group set the better the materials used in manufacturing, the lower the weight, which leads to higher cost. He said the average cyclist most likely could not tell the difference in performance between Dura Ace and the 105 group sets. The only difference I have found is the latest group sets have a shorter shifter throw. I have a Dura Ace set on my bike from 2004. And Ultegra on my gravel bike (2017 Cannondale Slate). The newer group set has a much shorter shifter throw.

[@trekimpossible2850]

I have 105(5800, including crankset) and Ultegra(6800, including crankset) too, and average 100 miles/week. In terms of performance, I don't feel the difference. In stead, I have more PRs with 105 on climbing(> 6%) because of its compact chain rings. Ultegra does feel better in shifting, but very marginal.

[@karl8805]

105 set up perfectly like mine Vs my ultegra set up perfectly like mine 105 is way off being as crisp Ultegra is just next level in comparison

[@edo153]

I agree and I have mechanical 105 and electric Di2 ultegra. The Ultegra shifts slightly smoother and slightly faster but I’m talking very thin margin. Not worth the price imo

[@simonknowles4267]

Nice job guys. ( hoping this makes the comments section of the next GCN show)

[@cup_and_cone]

You can't do this with SRAM Red and SRAM Rival... Thanks for making 'the working man's groupset' so awesome Shimano!

[@Phaidrus]

GCN's Dynamic Duo! Nice one, guys!

[@TheJackKWhitehouse]

Ollie always looks so happy. Brightens my day 😎

[@pibba]

Brilliant! Gotta say I'm still running 105 on my '80's Colnago and have never been disappointed. Thanks to Si for keeping it in his nickers!

[@blaireasdon]

Between Si's attraction to rear derailleurs and Ollie feeling the girth, this was something else!

[@jvmccracken]

5 years with Shimano 105 on my Trek Domane including cross USA: Perfect.

[@40datboysha]

I am a Dura Ace fan, but that 105 is pretty sweet looking.

[@EagleKeeper86]

Makes me feel better about my 105 group. I honestly couldn’t imagine shifting getting much better, and now I see that it really doesn’t.

[@antonXPS]

great duo work!

[@jamesporter5630]

Auto rolled into this episode. You made, what I thought might be, a dry subject entertaining. And I learned quite a bit. Damn. Have you ever considered an episode explaining...retirement investing? I’ve eff’d that up pretty good. Maybe an Ollie/Si tutorial on compound interest?

[@M47H383R7]

The secret, drop an Ultegra cassette, chain and cables on 105 everything else and enjoy.

[@beaterbikechannel2538]

That's exactly what I did, I saw how a 105 cassette will dig into an aluminium freehub. I Ultegra'd my Hope Mono RS hub straight away before I even built my bike up.

[@rami1985]

Thanks for the tip

[@HaldunSayi]

It is just a lovely episode 🤣🤣🤣 May the force be with you then 💪🏻

[@nikolajkotz5269]

Love these videos, thanks!

[@jacksquat2067]

0:28 Perfect placement and angle. Thought Si had Mickey Mouse ears on for a second. 🤣

[@sandgroper1970]

When I first got into road cycling as an adult, I tried several bikes with shimano 105, then I tried one with Ultegra ( all mechanical ), Ended up buying the bike with Ultegra ( felt the shifting was better) after some years I got a new bike and got mechanical Dura Ace ( I felt things were a step up again from ultegra - This was the year when Shimano first offered electronic Dura Ace). I now have a bike with Ultegra Di2 and the shifting is fantastic and the braking is great ( rim brakes only). If I was to get another bike with Shimano gears I would spec it with Ultegra Di2.

[@lexvandewal8856]

I had a bike with sora and that was really crap and with buying a new bike i had the luck that i could take a few for a ride and the ultegra is in my opion also better shifting than 105 and now i have a ultegra 105 mix drivetrain 105 rest ultregra amazing shifting and cheap to replace

[@tbear4291]

Great addition of Olli to GCN. JUST like 105 upgraded to Dura Ace!

[@TabletopUpgrades]

Got to say the editing is spot on. Just as I was thinking this vs weight thing is getting boring....you swapped to the immediate side by side style. Good skills team!

[@ClemensAlive]

Imagine all these guys spending thousands of Euros on "Extra light weight" components for an 1 or 2 kg advantage. but then just have 10kg too much resting on their hips... Dont get me wrong - I definetely understand the motivation behind it. We're all men... ^^ But until I'm not super lean and highly competetive - its way easier to just lose some weight.

[@HAFIZzainalHZ]

Or just have a massive dump in the morning before the ride. 😂

[@mikehaines1403]

@@HAFIZzainalHZ just cut the crap

[@HAFIZzainalHZ]

@@mikehaines1403 r u shittin me? 😂

[@christiandawson5031]

So true

[@metallusmelandril7380]

And cheaper and more healthy

[@fh5102]

0:09 "But, how does it compäääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääh"

[@petinka721]

Great show again GCN! I can not say if I would feel any difference between them since I only ridden with Sora and even hot had opportunity compere with Tiagra.

[@jayshockey5461]

Great stuff guys! 👊🏻👏🏻👏🏻💪🏻💪🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@narcolonarcolo]

If you're not too concerned with bling factor or you're not racing at a super high level 105 is all the group set you'll ever need. It can't be beat in terms of value. I'd say dura Ace is not better, it is nicer.

[@albr4]

the main reason is because it's lighter. I've built my own cheap and lightweight groupset with sram force 22 shifters, derailleurs, a sram red 22 crankset and casette. These parts weigh 1,215 grams. Just buy the cheaper groupset and look to see if there's a big gap in weight on a certain component (crankset) then just swap that part out. This way you get both value and performance.

[@CanIHasThisName]

@@albr4 The problem is that unless you're into stuff like TT, weight is so greatly overrated parameter. You're shaving off a fragment of a second every hour. And if you're not racing at all, it's negligible.

[@johnnyloco11]

Did you mention the RRP difference? That's kind of a key part in deciding on a groupset...

[@Bad_Science_Channel]

John Matthews the prices vary a lot, but dura ace is roughly 3x the price

[@rigger8722]

Just ordered a Triban RC520 Gravel. Glad it's got the 105 shifters and derailleurs. Looking forward to getting in the saddle again after too many years off it. Getting far too podgy in my middle age. Last proper bike was a Dyna-Tech 400, also with Shimano mid-range groupset.

[@86Hasse]

"109 - Messerschmitt", HAHAHA! I love the dry humour and self-irony in these clips!😂😂😂

[@richardhudson4649]

My road bike is 105. And I can't imagine ever needing more than 105. When I upgrade my road bike, it will be to a new 105 7000 groupset bike. My triathlon bike is 105, but I am planning to upgrade to a bike with Ultegra Di2 simply so I can have satellite shifters on the horns. I can't imagine ever needing Dura Ace. The easiest way for me to lose ~500g is to not go for nachos as often.

[@asdfasdf-hk2gi]

ultegra carbon STI grips are a super nice upgrade. They are a lot warmer when it is cold outside

[@gabkoost]

You can either spend 1000+ USD on a Dura-Ace groupset or save 20$ every week on one pizza and 2 beers less. Either way, you'll save those 400 grams and still end up dropped by that 70yo dude who rode his old bike his entire life to commute 20k back and forth. Let's be real. The real upgrade here are the looks and the good feeling accomplishment that only ostentation will give you. Get it if money isn't a issue for you or if you are really competitive and 1 minute gain on a 50k ride is that important.

[@briantruck2284]

Exactly

[@tsc4842]

not everybody is fat.

[@gabkoost]

@@tsc4842 If you are not a competitive rider you don't need Dura-Ace. In fact, you actually don't need anything over 105. For people with budgets it's much more important to invest on decent wheels and tires than on a groupset slightl lightery but that will give you literally 0 performance gains. Wheels and tires, on the other hand. will provide MASSIVE gains. Performance gains trump by far weight gains. Example: - My first decent road bike was a Decathlon Triban. As i have a budget to manage myself around, i could either upgrade the groupset or the wheels and tires. Had i spent money on the groupset i would have gained a few hundred grams that would have helped me in virtually nothing. Instead, i chose contract points and it took off MINUTES from my routes.

[@keomo]

Hahahahaha damn.... LOVE the Star Wars gags. Gotta appreciate the omnipresent humour in GCN vids. Thanks team.

[@bdelmotte]

Great review, so funny and professional 😀

[@S1zx6r]

I've got 105 5800 rim brake at the moment and although I've tried DI2, the performance isn't worth the extra outlay to me. New bike will have new 105 hydro, but I have specced the DA rotors because the black centre looks so much better!!

[@bishplis7226]

well duh, how COULD it be better?

[@solitaryrefinement6787]

If you stick with rim brakes, go with SRAM Force. They come with stock SwissStop pads and you're getting Ultegra-level braking performance for only $100 while knocking 100g off your bike. And they stop great. Nice positive feeling. The only reason is that I passed on disc brakes is because I don't ride in the rain really which is where discs really beat rim brakes.

[@peterhansen1106]

To quote Lance Armstrong: "It's Not About the Bike" ...it's about the drugs!

[@9034833838]

Gonna start injecting EPO for my daily commute from the next week on. Thanks

[@deusexaethera]

Yeah yeah, everyone else was doping too, Lance only got busted because he was _also_ the best racer, and thus he was subject to the most scrutiny. I mean, he was so good he actually got tired of winning and started trying to build a complete collection of medals.

[@archiezulueta]

No matter how drugged you are, if you don't have it, you're nothing. Everyone at that time is juiced. So playing field is level. They just zeroed in on Lance.

[@recyclespinning9839]

@@deusexaethera I think his body just reacted best to drugs. Not the best athlete or rider. Just the best after drugs , which seems to be the trend nowadays. Very sad..almost every sport is tainted. 😔🙄

[@deusexaethera]

@@recyclespinning9839: Drugs can't make you perform well if you don't also push yourself as hard as you can. People think drugs make difficult things easy, but drugs only increase the maximum difficulty your body can ensure.

[@MicroageHD]

When will Shimano SORA Super Sports release? I'd love to have a SORA-SS...

[@Outsideville]

The tricky part comes in that the groupset is often set with other options on a bike build. It's much more expensive to buy a frame and build up a bike, so you go with the overall objective. For instance, I wanted hydraulic discs, not cable, and that meant that I would get Ultegra rather than 105. I really have no need for Ultegra since I don't have Di2. I actually prefer SRAM double tap, but wasn't an option. I assume many folks in the mid-range market end up following a similar decision tree.

[@JBroms64]

I would honestly love to see GCN's perspective on the entry level groupsets. I put thousands of miles on my Claris bike before upgrading to the new 105, and I thought Claris held up surprisingly well compared to the 105.

[@bonzobanana1]

I think Claris is all most cyclists need or at least casual cyclists. Obviously if your a competitive cyclist then it may be worth going higher but the difference in speed is ridiculously small but the difference in cost is huge. Tourney is terrible but Claris is a huge jump up from that. The difference in weight is clearly unimportant if you are carrying extra weight yourself. Why worry about 500g on the bike if you weigh 15kg more than your ideal weight. I'd say Claris is the groupset for the people not 105.

[@ForTsz]

Claris can be the groupset for people if you live in a flat terrian. But once you live in a mountain terrian you will unterstand why more sp do effert your ride. 8sp and 11sp in 11-28 is really different when you can climb more effortlessly in right cadence with 11sp

[@CanIHasThisName]

@@ForTsz You do realise that Claris supports 11-34 cassettes, right?

[@J4J0]

11sp means having 11 rings in the back, not just having an 11 tooth ring.

[@CanIHasThisName]

@@J4J0 How stupid do you think I am? I'm talking about range.

[@nathanmarineau3993]

I've got 105 on my Canyon Endurace AL and I love it. I don't compete, I just love to ride hard. And, you know... budget. Great bike too, by the way.

[@tomahoks]

Nathan Marineau I just got me a 2019 Canyon Roadlite AL 7.0 Love it.

[@awesomexistence]

Could you follow up on this comparison with comparing the chainring-chain-cassette metal types/treatments concerning durability please.

[@tomast9034]

air resistance is our biggest enemy :D have the 105 set for 5? years now im happy with it...

[@SergioCristancho]

Nice Video, feel more tech than ad. I can see maybe there is a purpose in each group set... what about and endurance test how many km or miles can develop each before starting to develop 'failure,' or show us performance in different terrain... just saying maybe 105 can be smooth on some climbs and terrain and durace well has the flats... maybe, maybe it won't ?

[@arthurbown-mazzoni]

Can you do a Campag Super Record vs Campag Record next?

[@timpeterson3131]

The "Star Wars" reference was obvious, but Ollie as the Dread Pirate Roberts in a sly nod to "The Princess Bride" was brilliant!

[@markoneal9677]

My experience on several bikes has been that the 105 rear derailleur doesn't hold it's shifting performance over time nearly as well as Ultegra or DA. My recent experiment was on the 2018 gravel bike. Came with the 105 groupset. Shifted terrible. Replaced the rear derailleur with an Ultegra RX-800 and now it shifts perfect

[@QuickQuips]

Sora and up are quite solid for everyday use. Though iirc 105 and Ultrega are more durable than DA. I'm surprised Shimano didn't send identical components.

[@darinsteele7091]

I have the 2014 version of Sora and it seems pretty good.

[@glennoc8585]

Well the cassette might be too close un weight ifvthey sent two cassettes at 11-28

[@indorock]

Indeed DA sacrifices durability for performance and lightness. If you want durable and high performance, Ultegra is the best choice. Having said that, my daily commuter has Sora and it's still very very capable!

[@minuteman4199]

I have Sora on my cross bike and 105 on my road bike. I got a really good deal on the cross bike and figured I would upgrade to 105, but I have been perfectly happy with the performance.

[@lexvandewal8856]

Sora is trash if you ride longer distances short distance is kinda okay

[@syresynth5778]

Pls do a Deore XT vs XTR comparison in this channel or on GMBN pls!

[@nunocosta1060]

The two channels could join for that test. Mtb vs road indoors

[@moi7748]

I have Deore XT on my BMC hybrid and I honestly cannot fault it. I really don't think any upgrade would be worth it.

[@scottc9630]

Andrew James I love it when people say, xtr shifts smoother than XT. My thoughts are; you’re going up or down a bumpy ass trail and you are able to discern the smoothness between the two?

[@rubenstoll]

awesome video! keep it up gents!

[@miggyruru]

very funny beginning, guys!

[@richym2020]

What about non series 2300. Had this on an older bike. Still going strong.

[@cliffordromina3527]

Nice one calling non series. I just call them generics..

[@Travelakad]

I just started watching the video. Already clicked the like icon just for the Star Wars reference. Well done lads! Well done!

[@atsright4293]

This video is great. You guys are informative and entertaining. You’ve also made me feel better about being a lumpy rider forever stuck in the mid level reaches of cycling componentry. Putting Durace on my bike would be like putting a dress on a pig.

[@antonytolfts608]

Great comparison, was there no discernible difference in rotating resistance through the bb and hubs? Or is weight the only penalty?

[@andrewdoig4034]

A blind test of 105 vs ultegra vs dura ace would have been great but I appreciate complicated. From the previous generation I concluded ultegra was the best value for money groupset for a fit amateur cyclist. 105 components wore out too quick, dura ace is strong but expensive. I found ultegra components to cost little more than 105 and much less than dura ace. Suited me.

[@zacharycat]

My impression was that 105 = weekend rider, Ultegra = more serious everyday rider, Dura-ace = hard core racer or someone with deep pockets.

[@DSRT888]

I ride every day on Claris R2400 8 speed. Where muh dura ace.

[@fluffy13bondjames92]

DSR_T-888 just don’t be poor

[@richard7059]

Fantastic comparison

[@josephtan5037]

Thank you very much for this comparison

[@kochka22]

You didn't talk about durability, how many km you can do with each parts ?

[@antred11]

Agreed. To me that would matter FAR more than a few grams of weight difference.

[@Max__apex]

Lubricate it and they will last a lifetime

[@Digi20]

I would say get a tiagra or 105 instead of ultegra and buy yourself some nice wheels for the difference. or a whole other bike when considering the price difference to dura-ace.

[@krnone8057]

105, as it is 11 speed and compatible with higher groups. Tiagra is compatible only with itself.

[@Digi20]

@@krnone8057 depends if you plan to upgrade or not.

[@CanIHasThisName]

@@krnone8057 Actually, current Tiagra 4700 is compatible with 11 speed derailleurs (albeit only as a 10 speed system), so you can run Ultegra RX derailleur.

[@thelawnet]

Tiagra is old, don't buy it now. Maybe new Tiagra (next year) will be a good buy. Now not so much.

[@krnone8057]

@@Digi20 Sure, but it's always better to have options.

[@HeatherSpoonheim]

I plan on buying a Cannondale 105 Topstone this winter. The 105 gearing would have been well beyond my capabilities when I started this year but should provide a great workout for me next year with room to advance for several seasons. For the amount that I'll be paying, I sure hope I get several years out of that bike.

[@markstengel7680]

Hi Guys, Started looking for new road bike. You answered my question re: 105 vs Dura Ace systems. I remember 105s were tops. Bye Guys & Enjoyed Presentation 🚲👍

[@gehrBehr1]

Test them in one years time after a race season and you'll feel a bigger difference!

[@simonstucki]

you are really doing an awesome job considering the whole being sponsored by manufacturers situation, I'm sure that is not always easy. Of course I would prefer if you weren't sponsored at all but there's a lot of things I would prefer that are not going to happen either (like paying no rent, getting a new free bike every month and so on). everyone has got to eat...

[@Bad_Science_Channel]

simon stucki thanks mate! 👍🏼

[@CanIHasThisName]

This video being sponsored means that Shimano gave or lent them the groupsets. It's normal practise - a brand gives you a product and wants you to make a video about it. Of course, in that case you're legally obligated to admit it's sponsored content. If you watch some tech channels, you may notice that lots of these sponsored videos are entertaining and ton of fun, mainly because the brand typically just wants to have a video done about the product but doesn't care what you do with it. It's a win for everyone. The viewer gets to see something interesting, the creator gets free stuff and makes content about it that will earn him money, and the brand will get publicity among viewers who actually are interested in it. As for this video, I think that Shimano wants to support the sales of their mid-range and lower end components, especially since the upgrades they've done to the very lowest groupsets. They're basically reassuring people that by buying the cheaper things, they're not really getting a sub-par riding experience.

[@chrischupp9760]

Great comparison. The Dura Ace crank does look sooooo nice

[@jamestillotson8307]

Thank you so much have watch many GCN clip while deciding which new bike to get. Love these guys and thank you for saving me £700

[@ciaphascyne8866]

shimanos been runnin this same ad for 30 years. 105 is just as good as dura ace minus the weight. we know. yes, its pretty much true.

[@elvictorious381]

How did Shimano come up with the name "105" in their group set series?

[@okantichrist]

ryse victorio Mavic 501 backwards 👍

[@matthijsmaris8703]

it's apparently the rpm at wich the body cycles most efficient .

[@CanIHasThisName]

@@matthijsmaris8703 That is complete bollocks.

[@matthijsmaris8703]

@@CanIHasThisName mind you, 105 is a road groupset.

[@CanIHasThisName]

@@matthijsmaris8703 Well, Captain Obvious, did you also know that it is made by Shimano? Point remains; The groupset isn't called 105 because of some cadence meta and 105RPM most definitely isn't an efficient cadence.

[@user-on1cy5iz3u]

is there gonna be a new ultegra release in 2019？

[@ryantan9447]

Thk for the guide

[@HughDWallace]

Love my 10 speed Tiagra!

[@MrChippinator]

I just bought a Tiagra Trek Émonda ALR because 105 wasn’t available due to COVID supply issues. Honestly, it’s amazing! Trickle down tech has made spending more money nonsense. I took the 500-1000 I have saved and put it into new kit.

[@HughDWallace]

@@MrChippinator I was riding my 9 speed Sora today. Smooth as silk. Lovely group set.

[@MrChippinator]

@@HughDWallace A guy from my LBS told me that the Tiagra is basically the Ultegra from 10 years ago. Basically that other than weight there’s nothing between Tiagra and up.

[@HughDWallace]

@@MrChippinator I'd be interested in a 105 groupset or GRX but anything above that is just playing with numbers.

[@MrChippinator]

@@HughDWallace Yeah and the higher you go the more expensive the parts. Eventually the returns are diminishing.

[@lisapet160]

Is Ollie a Benny Hill's relative? The Tiagra/105 is my choice: I am riding for myself, not for mechanics, photo-finish and thiefs at coffee brake and mid-ride meal spots.

[@Aaron_Higgins]

Does dura ace shift more gears with one lever throw? I'm still using 7800 and it could shift more gears at a time than the lower tiers

[@IronAngel8775]

Great information. Can you guys make a video listening the difference type of road bike from the worst to the greatest and what's different about them also can you include the name of the bikes.? Also is bike set height important when you're riding?

[@9034833838]

*sees this* *Starts crying violently in Claris*

[@deusexaethera]

Then you missed their point. Claris is heavier, but that's the only real disadvantage.

[@not-a-raccoon]

Responds in Sora

[@davidpodger1388]

Borealis Axes all of which makes tiagra look like good buying. 1 extra gear aside, I find it hard to tell the difference in shifting behaviour, between contemporary tiagra and 105.

[@dujiesheng8099]

Tourney is the lowest tier

[@austinshoupe1506]

@@deusexaethera that's not completely accurate. Their point was that 105 and dura Ace are similar. Claris is a bit different. 3 gears less, cheaper materials, cheaper shifters, much further down the trickle down line. Claris is not even close to dura Ace.

[@SM_525]

In a practical sense, everyone who's really passionate about cycling, realizes 105 is all you'll ever need. However, what fun is that?

[@williamkeys5701]

Agreed

[@Swampster70]

Need... ... or want? I like the durability of Dura Ace and the nice little ball bearings where 105 has bushings... Does it make it faster or does it make it more serviceable or reliable? Maybe it's due to the fact that I'm like a magpie and like shiny things - once every decade I buy a new bike with Dura Ace and get the bling parts at a much discounted price due to the bike build - and then have parts that are easily serviced for the next decade: a strategy that's served well since 1987.

[@SM_525]

@@Swampster70 I've used Dura Ace, Record, or Red on all my "special" bikes for over 15 years. On my rain/winter bikes, Rival/105. There is a difference and I can tell very easily, but the differences are small. Still, I'd never ride less than say Ultegra on my nicer bikes.

[@AlexRochette]

Silly. Utterly silly. But I loved it! Thanks for the laughs!

[@RixterNow]

Are the 105 chain rings forged the same as the Dura Ace?

[@scottcockburn9112]

I would choose 105 due to the fact that the Dura ace group set cost more than my bike

[@cw824]

You guys are hilarious!!!

[@shinrips]

Which should I change, my cassette or my crank to make climbing easier on my 55 yo body. I built my Litespeed Ultimate with 52/36 up front and 11-25 cassette. I want to either change to compact 50/34 or 12-28 out back. I know changing cassette is cheaper but which change will give me the easier climb? Also, if I change my Ultegra drive train crank to compact can I move it up to DuraAce with the rest of my drive train staying Ultegra?

[@theylivewesee1674]

I wish you guys review sora r-3000 when it first came on the market, the groupset looks fantastic even better then current tiagra and it's perfect budget groupset for recreational riders

[@John-yg2rt]

I ride a peasant bike with an alloy frame, rim brakes, and 105 groupset.... works just fine

[@not-a-raccoon]

Alloy frame, rim brakes and Sora set here. Lol

[@gamma_dablam]

Carbon frame, rim brakes and 2013 Tiagra here.

[@lazyremnant380]

This is what I've been waiting for! (almost) exact same performance as their very highest top-end product, less than 500g of weight difference, but THREE TIMES cheaper? Should be a no-brainer if you're even a slightest bit conscious about budget! It's almost scary how incredibly good the price-to-performance ratio for 105 is, Shimano must be using some black magic in their factory, LOL

[@WorldofColnago]

Do you guy got vids of the older Campa groups, like the Chorus 8 speed and Record? Maybe a comparison between the Dura Ace 7800 and higher? What are their pros and cons...

[@SwiftTelly20]

Wish they would do an updated version of this. I didn't check the date before watching.