How Distrust Killed 109 People | Air Canada Flight 621

Footage Credits: @eye trapper
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This is the story of air canada flight 621, On the 5th of july 1970 an air canada DC 8, was on the ground at montreal and it was bound for los angeles with a stop over in toronto. The plane took off from Montreal at about 7:12 am EDT bound for Toronto, the flight was all but normal. Soon they were getting close to toronto and the pilots started working on the in range checklist, Which was followed by the before landing checklist. The before landing checklist walked the pilots through setting the plane up for a smooth transition to the approach phase, They completed the checklist and the plane turned to line up with runway 32 at toronto international airport.
The plane flew into the airport, it slowly lost altitude as the huge DC8 descended from the sky onto the runway. When the plane was about 60 feet from the runway the captain said okay to the first officer and the plane suddenly started to drop. The captain exclaimed as the plane dropped and the captain increased power to stop the sinking plane, the captain pulled back on the stick hard as he could, the safety of the plane depended on it. The first officer was profusely apologizing to the captain, he kept on saying “sorry pete”. His apologies were in vain. the captain couldnt stop the plane, the plane kept sinking and it hit the runway very hard. The plane wasnt on the ground very long, half a second maybe and then the plane was in the air again. The controller chimed in with “Air Canada 621. Check you on the overshoot and you can contact departure on 199 or do you wish to come in for a mile on 5 right” the captain said that they were going around, and that they were alright, but they weren't, the rightmost engine struck the runway and it was ripped from the wing. When the engine was torn away it damaged the wing of the plane. Fuel leaked through this hole and soon the wing was on fire.
But the crew thought that the plane was in better shape, they decided to circle the airport and to come in for another approach onto runway 32, the plane climbed to 3000 feet for attempt number 2. As the plane flew smoke trailed it and 2 and a half minutes after the touchdown an explosion rocked the plane. Parts of the right hand wind rained down on the ground below. Another explosion ripped off engine number three. things were bad. A fourth explosion sent more chunks of the wing raining down. The plane then entered a right bank and the right hand wing started to disintegrate, Flight 621 was no longer controllable. The plane hit the ground at 220 knots and none of the 109 people onboard survived.
The runway was littered with debris and finding out what happened started there, the plane touched down so hard that it literally ripped engine number 4 off of its mounts. Airplane landings are usually very smooth. You'd think that tons of metal touching back down at tremendous speeds would be a violent affair but more often than not it's controlled and benign. This is because of what's known as a flare. A flare occurs right before touching down, the pilot pulls the nose up and reduces the rate of descent so that the plane touches down smoothly. That didnt happen here.
Listening to the CVR or the cockpit voice recorder would tell them why. Listening to the pilots it seemed like any other flight, the pilots were talking about the approach, completing checklists etc. But when they got to the before landing checklist the investigators noticed something strange, the pilots skipped the spoiler part of the checklist. So whats a spoiler and what does it do. If you've ever sat in the seat overlooking the wing on any modern airliner youve probably

[@reedman0780]

Damn, Imagine having your last thought of just, guilt and regret, and just profusely apologizing because you know you're also partly in fault.

[@harrietharlow9929]

That is indeed awful.

[@joestevenson5568]

Partly? Try solely. Human factors aside, this accident was caused by only one definite error, and it was the First Officer's.

[@matthewjenkins1161]

@@joestevenson5568 And the Captain, as neither was a follower of correct procedure.

[@elliottellis6849]

you prolly dont care at all but does someone know a trick to get back into an instagram account..? I was dumb lost my password. I love any help you can offer me.

[@reedman0780]

@@elliottellis6849 get a pilot's license then climb into 20000 feet and turn the wrong knob

[@danuttall]

I live in Brampton, Ontario not far from where that plane went down. At the time, it was a farm field. Now, it is a residential area. The city set up a park at the crash site with a memorial to those who died, passengers and crew.

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Is it still there?

[@mitch_the_-itch]

I'm thinking having the Pilots in a memorial with the passengers is kinda sick in this case. The Pilots killed the passengers because of "feels." Would we bury Jeff Dahmer whit his victims?

[@stephendawson6627]

@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation The memorial is still there. I live about 20 mins away. They were still finding debris and, disturbingly, bone fragments in the area for decades after the crash.

[@Milesco]

@@mitch_the_-itch : Nonsense. This was a tragic accident, and the pilots lost their lives along with the passengers. Comparing the pilots to Jeffrey Dahmer is ridiculous.

[@mitch_the_-itch]

@@Milesco The pilots rewrote the user guide in flight on there own volition. They killed those people. That the Pilots didn't feast on them doesn't change the fact that they were all killed. The eating part matters not to the dead people.

[@ianfergusonian]

My high school French teacher Mr. LeClair from Montreal was on this plane with his wife - sad day for many who loved him.

[@albertverkuyl8276]

My uncle was on the ground crew that was going to receive this flight and they watch the entire incident happen.

[@unhooked25]

Ian Ferguson: You have my sympathy

[@mikediamond353]

That is sad, especially in high school. Here the students are just starting out in life, first girlfriend, first job, excited about the future, and then Wham! Death sneaks up and proves that life itself is tenuous.

[@pianomanhere]

The good die young, but unfortunately, pricks seem to live forever. So sorry, man.. that must have been awful.

[@FlywithMagnar]

In 1987, a DC-9 crew forgot to arm the spoilers while on approach to Trondheim Airport in Norway. Furthermore, the captain was distracted while performing the before landing checklist, and the line with the spoilers was omitted. Just before touchdown, the first officer, who was pilot flying, discovered that the spoilers were not armed and said "Spoilers". Instinctively, the captain pulled the spoiler lever, and the aircraft landed hard and bounced back into the air. A missed approach was executed, and the aircraft landed safely. After the landing, it was discovered that the engine mounts were bent 15 and 30 degrees respectively and that the APU was displaced. The aircraft was written off. Thankfully, only one person was injured.

[@robertgift]

Thank you. What was the distraction?

[@doncoelho8734]

So....no one In the tower noticed that when the aircraft did a go around.....they did not notice it was burning and smoking from a hard landing with in view of the tower ATC?

[@5roundsrapid263]

That plane probably survived because of the modifications done after this crash.

[@cchris874]

I'm surprised and frustrated by this DC-9 incident. If the DC-8 was modified to prevent spoiler deployment in flight, how was the DC-9 allowed to keep flying with this hazard so many years later? it makes no sense, but I looked up the event, and it did indeed happen. Shaking head.

[@tomsdottir]

I am so grateful that in my job I don't have the capacity to make mistakes which will kill people or cost millions of dollars.

[@bobgillis1137]

One of the pilots lived on my street in Hudson, Quebec and his kid was in my school. We were advised by our teachers not to bother him. Condolences to all affected.

[@bobgillis1137]

@Carson Lowe Thanks, Carson. What did I assess ?

[@judethaddeus9856]

Someone needed to tell you all not to bother his son??

[@ryanmedic789]

@@judethaddeus9856 I don't know the age of the person told to not bother the kid, but a child of kindergarten age might need to be told. I just found out a couple years ago that a guy I knew in grade schools dad died in the crash of his fighter jet. I'm glad I didn't ask him where his dad was at the Father and Son hockey game.

[@ariannasv22]

That's so damn sad :(

[@XRP747E]

Bob, are you related to Gus, one of Air Canada's finest gentlemen and a great pilot?

[@billythekid3234]

I listened to the CVR tape and when the FO said sorry Pete it was heart breaking and then he said it again. You could hear it in his voice how bad he felt. The captain said it's ok it's ok! In a very calming voice knowing the plane was doomed!, It's like he wanted to make sure he knew it was not his fault.. I hope you all will listen to the CVR. It was heart breaking,

[@victor8794]

where did you listen to it?

[@Renard380]

As heartbreaking as it may be, those are still the words of someone who refused to follow the procedure and got many people killed.

[@57Jimmy]

@@Renard380 this was back when most airline pilots were ex air-force pilots. Companies were keen to hire such pilots. After all...they survived the war!! There were known problems with the auto system and, ex fighter pilots still being fighter pilots, did tend to buck the system. CRM was pretty much non existent compared to todays pilots. My parents on their 25th anniversary way back in early 1970 flew to Hawaii from Vancouver. The ticket agent asked my dad where he would like to be seated...”Behind the tail”....which drew a puzzled look so my dad said, “That’s right! Behind the tail! There’s no damn way I want to be on that thing when it leaves the ground!” As it was, one engine failed part way there and a second started to act up on approach! No wonder he passed away early in life! (51)😔

[@5roundsrapid263]

@@57Jimmy The captain was a veteran of the RCAF. He survived WWII to later die in this crash. Incredibly sad.

[@57Jimmy]

@@5roundsrapid263 i totally agree😒

[@johnlovelace2568]

What I recall about this accident was that the controller was asked “ so why didn’t you tell the captain how much damage he had suffered in the landing” He replied that “ I thought it was obvious so saying hey AirCanada you left an engine on the runway would have been glib”

[@stephenconnell]

he should not have presumed anything of the sort he should have called him and told even to get a we know back.

[@xonx209]

Wouldn't it be too late anyway since the plane already took off to attempt a go around? What would be helpful is if there is an CCTV in the cockpit to show the pilots what the engines are doing.

[@Relkond]

@@xonx209 I expect we’ll see pilot available camera views in the next generation of aircraft or so. Nothing simplifies engine fire procedures like determining the engine is no longer attached. I’m wondering if they’ll get other improvements at the same time... night vision or other gadgets to help them spot things like mountains in the dark or occupied runways.

[@robertstamers5099]

It wouldn’t have mattered. It was noted in the investigation that the decision to go around was not wrong, but once they had, the outcome was cast in stone.

[@andybrown6981]

it wouldn't have done any good or changed the outcome - same if they didn't do a go-around - maybe just a few miraculous lives saved on the ground ... because that arcing from the wires would have blown the aircraft up while it was slowing down

[@user-de2zo1bw4d]

The FO made a genuine mistake from muscle memory... so sad that the consequences were so big

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Honestly true

[@stephendawson6627]

@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation Huge design flaw, allowing spoilers to be deployed mid-flight. Might as well have a "Crash Me" button. The initial fix was almost hilarious. They put a plaque saying "Do not activate spoilers in flight" under the lever. As if pilots did not know this...

[@markmonse5285]

@@stephendawson6627 About as effective as a placard stating "Crashing this aircraft inflight prohibited"

[@chriskarjala4338]

If deviation from a sop is agreed apon, then use point and shoot. Point at the spoiler arm switch and say 'arm spoilers'. Not just 'ok'

[@cchris874]

@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation Just curious your impressions of the final report which places significant emphasis on the flawed design of the spoilers system, and the defective pilot training. The training was highly relevant because the DC-8 crews were told in no uncertain terms that it was physically impossible to deploy the spoilers in the air. Had the crews been given the correct specs of the system, the crew of 621 would have immediately realized the danger of arming at 60 feet. My own verdict is you have to see all these three main elements as interrelated to really appreciate the nuances of this crash. When I put myself into the shoes of each party - Air Canada training, MD, Captain Hamilton, each not aware of the other's vantage point - it becomes much more understandable as a lack of communications crash. Each party oblivious to the others' knowledge.

[@wst8340]

My Aunt was a Stewardess for Air Canada based out of Montreal..My Mom (her sister) was pretty upset until she found out my aunt was not on the plane..Long time ago.

[@5roundsrapid263]

This crash is sadly fairly unknown outside of Canada. The land was sold for a development, but thankfully, public outcry made the developer put a memorial at the actual site.

[@cbcluckyii4042]

I wasn't aware of it myself and I was born and raised here.

[@zochbuppet448]

This accident is totally unknown in the Toronto area or Canada...by design and for a reason. you have to protect the industry as a hole and the company's reputation also the maker of the airplane.

[@uncaringbear]

Thank you for documenting this incident. It occurred in my home town and it's been on my mind for many years. Before the crash site was redeveloped, you could still find debris from the doomed plane decades after the crash. It was a terrible day for Canadian aviation.

[@meridolevski-lewis2925]

My late Father-in-Law, an AC employee, was detailed to pick through the death field, looking for bits of the poor old Douglas. That was his job, appropriate for a chief mechanic. Or was it? Problem was, there was other matter mixed in with the metal and plastic of the plane. They made him do this for ten days or so, and it shook him; so badly that he never got over it. My husband's Dad gave him an overhead seat marker plaque which had been all cleaned up. Glad I avoided that type of trauma. So far. Regarding the crash scene, I could tell you things I was told that are scientifically fascinating and also horrific beyond dreaming.

[@cate284]

My father was an Air Canada first officer in July 1970. His DC-9 was on the Toronto runway that day waiting for this plane to land before they could take off. He witnessed the entire situation and the crash. His Captain made the decision to go ahead with the flight but he was very badly shaken by what happened.

[@kristita_888]

Wow, this is one of the rare major crashes I had never heard of. What a sad incidence!

[@brianmcdonald6519]

I live in Toronto, and remember it very vividly.

[@kommandantgalileo]

the co-pilot saying sorry is the most Canadian thing ever

[@markmaki4460]

Kinda depending on what variety of Canadian, right on.

[@ED-es2qv]

I’ve known two Canadians and they will apologize for gravity if you drop something in front of them. Not that they won’t screw you over or scream at you for nothing, but they apologize like a habit.

[@ondrejsedlak4935]

I work with a Czech-Canadian. He doesn’t say sorry, unless it’s followed by a naughty word beginning with F You.

[@ziggyzap1]

@@ondrejsedlak4935 I'm a Czech-American and I apologize like I am Canadian lol

[@dianapriester9032]

I am a Canadian, actually retired from Air Canada. Yes, we apologize for everything, especially for things out of our control. Yes, it seems to be habit. Sorry to say, all your comments are correct.

[@planenboom]

I was just about to ask you to make this!

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

im psychic haha

[@Vacaneu]

YES THE TWO GREATS IN 1 COMMENT SECTION

[@Eric_Hutton.1980]

@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation If I didn't already request this one, then I was about to. Fascinating air accident.

[@johnsymonstcu]

Thanks for another informative and well made program. R.I.P. to all of the passengers and crew aboard.

[@Ananth8193]

Actually you are providing with such details that we could not find any error. Sorry i was just joking you are exceptional...Awesome video

[@henke37]

Try looking at the subtitles, they are subpar.

[@Missconduct044]

@@henke37 The subtitles are automatically created by a YT algorithm and NOT the content creator. So yeah, the videos are excellent!

[@md11x6]

@@henke37 What subtitles?

[@impulsiveDecider]

@@rb8165 There is only one reason to dislike the video. And that would be to get the 69th or 420th one

[@oscarcom4539]

Exceptional?....not at all.

[@cadaverdog1424]

I think your videos are the best of all the many various ones on KZbin. Excellent job!! The narration is outstanding:clear, succinct, informative, well-paced. Looking forward to many more examples of your superior videos!!

[@coca-colayes1958]

That was awesome , the way you explained this accident just gets better and better , great work mate

[@tomriedinger6675]

Very well done as always! Really informative in the explanations without getting too technical. Great video!

[@PittsSZ]

My family flew from Calgary to Toronto a few days after this accident, and my older brother has told me that my parents were a bit nervous about the trip because of it. I was four years old and only remember what a great adventure it was.

[@22vx]

Excellent as usual 👍 thank you for continuing to share!

[@moriver3857]

I worked on DC8s for more than 10 years, 6 of those as a flight control and engine rigger, from cable fabrication, to installation and rigging (the DC8 had anywhere from 100, to over 130 cable runs depending on model and series) and it's virtually impossible to deploy the spoilers (arm, yes) while airborne. That's why it had in flight thrust reverses, which are always available but not to be used below 190 kts.. And if the spoilers deployed on touchdown, they would be dumped on going around with the throttles physically moving the spoiler lever forward. There's no computer, it's all mechanical, just antiskid servos and transducer that drove the motor. Any failure on the mechanical system, and the lever would lock forward. Even the aileron/flight spoilers were mecanically commanded, and hydraulically operated. The Canadian DC8s differed from the US models on the in-flight thrust reversal system, and some CA models, the FO operated both his station and the FE's as the FO seat ran on long and offset seattracks to slide back to the FE station. Sorry but something more happened here. RIP

[@cchris874]

I don't follow this. If it were virtually impossible to deploy the spoilers in flight, how come the 1st officer managed to deploy them on this flight with apparently little extra effort?

[@efoneofour]

@@cchris874 The spoiler mechanism was modified after the crash of Flight 621 to prevent inflight deployment; until then it was possible to deploy them in flight.

[@cchris874]

@@efoneofour Yes, I'm aware. That's why I was trying to figure out how an experienced DC-8 technician would say it was impossible. I guess he means in the post-spoilers' crash tense only. MD never admitted fault with it's spoilers, and if not mistaken, they changed the design not by legal mandate but by pressure from airlines, who saw first hand the serious implication on safety. In short, by the back door route, they admitted their design was flawed. I personally would be more inclined to say the primary cause of 621 was this design. All the other major factors were in a sense offshoots of this root weakness.

[@klrmoto]

Mo, What do you mean by "in flight thrust reversers?"

[@moriver3857]

@@klrmoto Exactly what I mean. The DC8 never had speedbrakes, only flight and gtound spoilers. So thrust reversed was used instead, by design. Depending on configuration, all four reverses could be used, #2 and #3 were always available for full reverse, and if the langing gear was down, all four could go in full reverse. But, you had to be above 190 kts to use all four. Pretty serious sink rate, I recall. Trivia: NASA modified a Gulfstream 3 or 4 with in-flight thrust reverses for Space. shuttle landing training. To my knowledge they operate the only DC8 in the US, probably a 70 series. Not sure. Also, some Canadian DC8 versions had full reverse regardless of gear position. A very interesting design of a bygone era.

[@johnoxenreider9094]

I really enjoy your videos. You explain everything in a clear and concise way.

[@Milesco]

I agree. Well done!

[@christopping5876]

Excellent commentary as to what was happening. Never boring or drawn out like other channels. Thank you.

[@davef.2811]

This was likely one of those DC-8-61s that Air Can. had modified to eliminate the Flight Engineer. With the exception of the cash register, the fuel, and electrical systems, the FDR, and some other secondary items, most of the controls and indicators from the F/E's station were moved to the overhead and fwd. panels and the F/O's seat tracks were extended back to allow him/her to slide all the way aft and access/operate the remaining F/E panel items. I suspect this accident may have contributed to Air Can. parking these planes, as their pilot group refused to fly them after a period of time. Some of these planes were eventually purchased by US operators, but they were required to have the F/E's position restored and special training be given related to the bastardized panel layouts and procedures. Our FAA was very wary about these ships being placed on US air carrier certificates. I encountered and operated one of these (N161DB) for about 3-1/2 yrs. A good, sharp, F/E could have been a Godsend in a scenario like this. As a personal observation, I can't imagine anyone operating a 10 Tank DC-8 with no F/E.

[@commerce-usa]

Thank you for the additional insights.

[@jtveg]

Thanks for sharing. 😉👌🏼

[@Chipicui]

Great information! thanks!

[@12345fowler]

That would have been criminal to eliminate the F/E position in these kind of airliners from first gen.

[@davef.2811]

@@12345fowler My thoughts, as well.

[@bootsarmstrong8421]

Appreciate you explaining why things happened the way they did instead of leaving a big mystery.

[@las10plagas]

damn, when I look for another video by you that I could watch, I have a hard time finding one that I haven't watched already at least once :-D new videos are always appreciated =P and thank's for making my evening not boring!!

[@jamesw5126]

Well done! I always wondered why Mayday never did an episode on this crash.

[@eyetrapper]

Great work bud. Thoroughly enjoyed

[@toffanful]

On a car trip returning to Toronto from Collingwood, Ontario, we witnessed the immediate aftermath of the crash, seeing it bank high before plunging out of sight of the car window. Many cars pulled over causing a large traffic jam, knowing the plane was in trouble. Within minutes, the 401 highway was blocked off and it took us 6 hours to travel 10 -15 miles. A sad day for all those people. Glad this crash is finally getting some coverage.

[@psw4763]

Always love your videos. It seems a bit of confusion on this flight. Very tragic outcome.

[@jtveg]

There are plenty of channels that use flight simulators to describe air accidents but I like yours the best because of your narration. Reading text on the screen is less effective, distractive to the graphics and can't convey as much detailed information. I also find myself having to pause or rewind to reread parts. I believe nowadays ground spoilers are triggered by the compression of the landing gear upon touchdown and provide the necessary downforce for the tyres to grip effectively. This was a real interesting accident I had never heard of before. Thanks so much for sharing. 😎👌🏼

[@Missconduct044]

Hey thanks for the narrations!! I appreciate your efforts into the videos in all, but I’m usually busy and doing something and don’t really watch a lot of them. But the narrations?? Excellent!!

[@Syclone0044]

This channel never disappoints! Glad to see you’re nearing 70,000 subscribers now.

[@storminnormin4651]

Nice post. In depth and informative.

[@ryanmedic789]

I remember the news report of this crash, a guy was golfing and saw the crash. I never knew of the cause until seeing this video

[@robertblache-fraser5479]

What is amazing is that with all the bells and whistles, the pilots did not know that an engine had separated. That probably would have influenced his decision to go around.

[@davidhammond8239]

rate of fuel flow was consistant and that probably overroad loss of rpm indicator. physical loss of strut and engine counterbalanced loss of power.

[@RatPfink66]

apparently it separated in such a way that no cockpit indication was possible. no details are given here, at any rate.

[@Milesco]

Fascinating story. Tragic, but interesting. Thanks for posting!

[@Oldladysgin]

After these incidents and the crash DC8s had a large placard across the instrument panel, reading 'Do not use spoiler in flight'. Much as some early T tailed jet aircraft had another warning 'Do not stall this aircraft'.

[@fabianzimmermann5495]

When Pakistan International Airlines Flight 8303 crashed and the details were coming out, this was the first crash, that came to my mind, because both accidents sounded so similar. Failed landing with a go around and followed by engine failure. As we know now, the crash cause wasn‘t the same, but I‘m still fascinated by the parallels these two accidents have.

[@Yankee7000]

Please elaborate....

[@fabianzimmermann5495]

@@Yankee7000 PIA 8303 was an Airbus a320, that crashed last year. It was going for a landing, but then aborted it and did a go around. They lost both engines and crashed shortly after, I think only two people survived. As it turned out, they had forgotten the landing gear, so the plane basically landed on its engines, which of course damaged them and when they did the go around, the engines stopped working, before they could try to land again. Before we knew about the landing gear not being deployed, I was speculating, if it might have been something similar to this crash.

[@NiHaoMike64]

@@fabianzimmermann5495 I remember reading that the GPWS "whitelists" valid runways in order to not trigger during landing. Perhaps it should have been designed to not whitelist with the gear up so that the pilots would get a terrain warning letting them know something's not right?

[@fabianzimmermann5495]

@@NiHaoMike64 I'm not exactly sure, but the pilots on that flight had to make a very steep approach, since they had started descending late and were in a hurry, because of that. There was a terrain warning, but the pilots were so focused on landing on the runway, that they either didn't hear it or they ignored it, because they thought, they had deployed the landing gear, which was not the case.

[@richardshiggins704]

With PIA I think it was a case of total professional incompetence on the part of the Captain . With AC in this case there was a misunderstanding in communication .

[@sparkyobrian6417]

I think it should be noted, or a distinction made in the difference between flight and ground spoilers and their operation, The DC-8 has five on each wing, a total of six flight spoilers and four ground spoilers. The flight spoilers are located outboard of the ground spoilers, All ten spoilers can be armed before landing and will deploy upon main gear wheel spin-up at touchdown.

[@leegalen8383]

Thank you for the detailed explanations. This is excellent.

[@alwayscrabby7871]

Another great video. Thanks.

[@DarkFruitsAnimation]

I love how it pops into my feed and was made "16 minutes ago", last time I was this early I actually had my life organised Also love the flight simulator footage.

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

thanks for the support!

[@britz3864]

Was there when it flew over our house. A terrible, terribly sad day.

[@dannyjackson5883]

Great video bro.

[@jamesm.831]

Thanks for doing this video excellently done! I live where this plane went down and they just finished a memorial where the crash happened. One of my neighbours had just become a funeral director at the time, and was there doing body retrieval, you could tell it's just one of those things you never forget. When the accident happened it was all farmland and rumor has it it was never developed because every time they kept finding debris and noone wanted to dig in the area.

[@ALuimes]

The area is developed actually

[@simadologist]

Hi...thanks for your work. I have been watching your videos and they are really very enlightening. I am particularly interested in this specific incident and wondered if you could provide some references which I can look at. I am particularly interested in the way engineers revised the engineering of the engine to account for fall-away scenarios (sparking wires etc). Thanks.

[@ellisandrews440]

Thanks for doing this tragic ACI

[@jamespenny9482]

Excellent, excellent description of the what happened, the best of all the videos and stories I've seen about this crash. This was such a tragedy, there were so many things that went wrong that day.

[@cchris874]

It may be the best because there have been no very good ones. The video fails to mention the defective pilot training and the design deficiencies. The pilots were specifically taught that it was impossible to manually deploy the ground spoilers in flight. The official report is far more detailed. It shows the numerous deficiencies that seem to have been summarily ignored in the retelling for decades since.

[@CristiNeagu]

0:30 Common misconception: Checklists don't walk anyone through anything. You're thinking of flows. Checklists are a list pilots use to check that the aircraft is configured properly. They do not use it to guide their preparation, they use it to check that they did the preparation correctly.

[@Crashed131963]

They fly all the time , it does not come natural?

[@CristiNeagu]

@@Crashed131963 The flows are supposed to come naturally, yes. And in case of emergency there are things called "memory items" which a pilot must perform from memory in case of an emergency. But the purpose of checklists is to be used as a definitive list of checks (hence the name). If a pilot forgets to do something, it stands to reason that he could forget an item from the checklist too. That's why they must read the checklist, rather than simply recite it from memory. Some checklists have only one or two items on them, so you can imagine they are easy to remember. Still, the pilot monitoring (as in, the one not flying the plane) will have to pull out the relevant checklist for the current flight stage and read items off of it, and the pilot flying has to confirm if they are set.

[@Crashed131963]

@@CristiNeagu OK got it.

[@BillyAlabama]

Another wonderful re-creation for us. A sad story very well told.

[@brianmcdonald6519]

I remember this quite well, as I live in Toronto. Not sure if I ever heard the actual cause. If I did, I had forgotten. Thanks for doing this video. It really explained every thing in detail.

[@cchris874]

The causes were a bit more complex than shown here. There were numerous deficiencies in safety oversight and Air Canada's pilot training. It could also well be argued that design was the root cause. There was no purpose in deploying the spoilers inflight, so why even make it possible? In the older -8s the pressure required to deploy was much greater which also acted a safety check in case of a mistake. Due to numerous incidents at others airlines, Douglas made significant changes to the system, of course never admitting to any responsibility.

[@James_Knott]

I remember that crash. I was in high school at the time (in Oakville, Ont.) and it filled the news.

[@maxenceleboeuf]

My grandmother's cousin was on that flight... RIP to all the victims and my condolences to their families.

[@josephconnor2310]

I'm very sorry

[@robm3074]

The aircraft involved was a DC 8-63. That is the long range version of the stretch DC8. Great video...you did a great job.

[@robertstamers5099]

Interesting that up to about two hours before departure, a DC-8-61 was scheduled. The two were switched and the DC-8-61 flew AC805, YUL-YYZ-YEG instead. Had the equipment substitution not occurred, the accident would not have happened.

[@amir.hazwan]

Amazing animation! You can even see cars moving at 4:58. Impeccable details!

[@vincentgoudreault9662]

Sorry, not so great. The landscape outside of the airport and of the major roads is complete fantasy. And that highway junction visible at 4:58 was not built until 1975, 5 years later.

[@dudleyrathborne9849]

I was young at the time and living near Pearson when this happened , and my heart sunk . I was the son of an Air Canada executive and the shock and grief in the home was palpable . The following days were a very bad time .The burden of what had happened weighed heavy on my dad and wife and siblings . We were after all an airline family . And the thought of the terror the passengers suffered to the end , just made one feel so sad . I'll never forget those days . Thank you . DGR

[@ronniewall1481]

CONGRATS YOUR CHANNEL IS GROWING FAST. GOOD SHOW. THIS IS A SITUATION I THINK AN OUT SIDE PERSON MONITORING FLIGHT COULD HELP. THINGS LIKE CHECK LIST SEEM TO BE BEHIND A LOT OF ISSUES SOMEONE ON THE GROUND LINKED TO CABIN SHOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE HELP IN A LOT OF CASES.

[@yggdrasil9039]

I recall flying into London UK on a Virgin flight in an A380 and the landing was so smooth it was actually not possible to tell when we'd touched down.

[@DrPowerElectronics]

I have said to pilots ‘was that your landing?’ They don’t answer! I think they practice manual landings. The ones with bumps I think are Automatic Landing System. For a computer controlled landing you want it down and staying down so a bump is good!

[@johannesbols57]

It wasn't Virgin because Virgin doesn't fly the A380.

[@yggdrasil9039]

@@johannesbols57 Thanks it could have been Emirates Dubai-London leg, it's been a while ago now since I flew that route!

[@KingMoronProductions]

"The flight was all but normal" means the flight was very abnormal, just FYI. Love your content! :-D

[@pgbrown12084]

The phrase "all but" can go either way. It can mean very nearly or all except. It was used correctly in this context. And I absolutely love this channel too! I binge the watchlist all the time.

[@eikopoppy29]

Agree, "all but normal" means very close to normal but not quite. "Anything but normal" would mean extremely abnormal.

[@macandrewes]

AHHHHH! You did AC 621! Fantastic. This happened in my hometown and I have always been fascinated by this accident. The site was cleaned up about 10 years ago after it was reported you could go out there and not only find little airplane bits (can still find those), but also fragments of human bone. There is a memorial there now. (Btw you say "Toronto" like a native!)

[@karenj4854]

Dang

[@hagbard72]

Had a cousin who worked for AC go out and take pictures for the airline. It seriously messed with his head after that.

[@unhooked25]

I just can not imagine how terrifying it must be for the passengers of such a tragic incident just before their deaths. May they all rest in peace and be truly happy.

[@ogedeh]

I like this channel. I watch it a lot after I make it safely back on the ground and don't have to fly again for a while

[@shannoncarlson6960]

Good job on the video

[@davidtucker3729]

It all comes down to muscle memory and brain patterns. When racing you are moving much faster than conscious thought allows so you trust your experience to safely navigate a littered race course at speed as you don't have time to think but must react instantly at speed. Pilots in a takeoff or especially a landing must trust their experience and brain patterns to do what comes naturally, the same every time and with the same expected variables thrown in. When something is totally unexpected your instinct, muscle memory and practised training will either save or kill you and in a Pilot's case, maybe everyone on board. Training and practise makes for safe operation of vessels at speed. Great explanation of what happened. Thanks Mini.

[@cmans79tr7]

Wow! I had always wondered about those slats that pop up as soon as the plane was rolling upon landing. I knew they must have been "air brakes" but thought they were kind of small to have much effect. Your explanation that they disrupted the airflow enlightened me, and knowing the airflow and lift is disrupted, I now will be less fearful that a gust of wind might make the plane airborne again while landing. I also believe that high in the air, these are also partially deployed to purposely lose altitude and speed in preparation for descent for landing. Your explanation about their automatic deployment upon landing also makes me less fearful that a very busy pilot would forget, or deploy them too late after landing, as I knew these slats were important. And as you might read from my post, I might have trust issues similar to these pilots, but as another commented here "Don't fly the airplane if you don't trust it".... very wise words.

[@benjaminsagan5861]

An omitted detail: spoilers also help make brakes effective, since the lift disruption transfers the load onto the gears. This is why, in incidents where spoiler control is lost, planes need significantly more runway to come to a complete stop.

[@cmans79tr7]

@@benjaminsagan5861 - Yes, understood. Like F1 racecar spoilers for braking and steering traction. My comment was already so long, that I ran out of steam spewing out what I had just learned, so I didn't make the comment longer with that detail, ha ha.

[@richardshiggins704]

Sorry Pete and St Peter for the cockup ! Excellent and very comprehensive and yet understandable to the layman .

[@GaiusCaesarAugustusGermanicus.]

I'm curious to know why ATC hadn't warned of the pilots of the damage... The controller had eyes on the airplane as it was taking off from the first attempted landing

[@davidhammond8239]

an attempt was made. response..going around

[@GaiusCaesarAugustusGermanicus.]

The pilots initiated a go around and never communicated their intentions with ATC.

[@kevinstewart449]

I remember this one. I felt sick reading the details in the newspaper articles, and it's always stuck with me.

[@rilmar2137]

Could the have survived if they had continued the landing?

[@MiniAirCrashInvestigation]

Probably

[@robertstamers5099]

It was noted in the accident report that had the spoilers been deployed half a second either way, the outcome would have been better. Half a second earlier and the go around thrust would have softened the landing, half a second later and the aircraft would have crashed on the runway, likely with survivors.

[@steveperreira5850]

It could have been survived if the pilots had any vision whatsoever onto what is going on with the wings of their aircraft. Common sense demand video cameras that can see both wings front and back, those cameras aimed through pinholes in the fuselage and transmitting video signals to CRT monitors in the cockpits. All of this technology was available decades before this airplane was designed. The airline industry must hire the dumbest engineers in the entire universe. That they don’t do this is shameful. Just imagine driving your own car and you cannot see out the sides nor out the back, you can’t see anything at all unless you leave the drivers seat, go out a door into the passenger compartment, and you are no longer flying the airplane, but then you can see the wings. The pilots are bad enough and they will never improve much. The ultimate solution is artificial intelligence flying these airplanes. In the meantime the lame brain pilot at least need to be able to see what is going on on the wings of their airplane where the engines are. Can watch one air disaster after another where the engine falls off of an airplane or the engine nearly flies apart, and the pilots don’t have any idea what happened because they can’t see what is going on on the wings, and when that disaster happens all kinds of crazy warning horns go off and the instruments go wacko, and they cannot figure out what happened. Sometimes they save the plane, but often they do not because they don’t have situational awareness. I despise this industry. The pilots are pompous and incompetent. And worse yet, the engineers are derelict, completely devoid of common sense and imagination. Shame on all of them. Like I said elsewhere, if I am a pilot flying around 100 souls or more, and I have a crew of 10 people, every goddamn one of them is going to be my copilot, so if something goes wrong or somethings sounds like it is going wrong, all eyes and ears are open and they are to report to me via intercom or whatever, what they see. The pilots had known they had broken off an engine on the hard touchdown, and that fuel was leaking and had lit on fire, there is no way they would have climbed to 3000 feet and lollygag around for a second approach, they would have landed out in a field somewhere right after the failed touchdown and saved at least some or most of the souls on board. Most Humans are incredibly stupid, and it is too bad that the stupid are allowed to make life and death decisions on hundreds of innocent souls at a time. And industry supposedly comprised of intelligent engineers should only be led by the most competent amongst them, and the mediocre ones should be very limited in their ability to defectively Design an aircraft. As for the pilot, they will soon enough to be completely replaced by artificial intelligence, as they should have been long ago

[@intercommerce]

I wondered the same thing, If only they realized the damage they could have kept it on the ground, deployed the emergency slides and save the passengers from the fire. But they didn't know. Wouldn't external cameras pointing at less- visible areas of the plane's exterior be a good idea? The last crash video I watched, the plane lost an engine from a bird strike, and the pilot didn't even realize the entire engine was ripped right off the wing....

[@smwca123]

A problem then would have been asymmetrical reverse thrust that would have made it harder to keep the plane in a straight line on the runway.

[@jamesstuart3346]

I must be getting old...I remember reading the account of this in the Toronto Star

[@terrydanks]

Mmmm . . . (Post edited to comply with factual info kindly provided in the replies.) I stand ready to be corrected, but . . . . I was not aware that the DC-8-63 EVER had computers capable of deploying spoilers automatically. (It did, as described in the3 video.) My understanding of this tragedy . . . The DC-8-63 spoiler lever had a knob atop it. "Arming" the spoilers was accomplished by rotating this knob. (No! Correct info is in the link provided in the reply.) With the spoilers so armed, deploying them was accomplished by pulling the lever. In this case, at 60 feet, when the captain gave the OK to arm the spoilers, the 1st officer deployed, rather than armed the spoilers . . . all 10 of them O(5 per wing). Am I wrong to believe this all these years? (Yes, I did either recall the details incorrectly, or perhaps never really knew what I THOUGHT I knew. While I was thousands of miles away at the time, I remember this accident all too well. Captain's name was Peter Hamilton. (Had that wrong too.) Loved the stretch DC-8. A gorgeous plane. Flew on them a couple of times.

[@jtveg]

The purpose of the [Armed] position is so that the spoilers can be automatically deployed once triggered by the landing gear when they touch down. The lever doesn't need to be [Armed] in order for spoilers to be manually deployed. All that needs to be done is the lever to be pulled aft. The accident and the operation of the lever is explained in this .pdf and the relevant part is on page number 62. of the document which is page 67. of the file. www.baaa-acro.com/sites/default/files/2018-07/CF-TIW.pdf Here is another discussion group talking about the spoilers on the DC8 and this crash. groups.google.com/g/sci.aeronautics.airliners/c/NYEzNgs48UM/m/A5ru9EzrXpYJ

[@terrydanks]

@@jtveg John: Many thanks for the link to, and page reference in, the Board of Inquiry. Much appreciated.

[@AshishKumar-fn9en]

Keep it up ☺️

[@trickzohd]

could you do the pilot that died in the cockpit G-BCYR? i have also subscribed

[@antoniokastrocarlisledemel6617]

Crazy shit Im an aviation fanatic and I've never heard of this accident...thanx for the video and the knowledge bruh u got my like and sub no doubt

[@flyingtigerline]

Best presentation of this event I've ever seen.

[@fuzzingaround]

wasn't that accident happened in Montreal? Ok I just checked there where an other accident in 1963 with an DC-8 from air canada as well

[@erikliljenwall8185]

It’s amazing how quickly everything can go wrong

[@sludge4125]

Especially when you decide to do things your way, instead of the proper way.

[@JonLasaga]

I think he was right for not trusting the plane. One thing to keep in mind is that as you deploy the landing gear the wind speed can spin the wheels causing it to set off the spoilers. For someone who likes to have gear down a little early this could cause the same problem that caused the crash here. I think it was just a really unfortunate chain of events that caused this as a hard landing would have been fine assuming they were even when they came down. They just happened to clip the wing on the asphault.

[@chuckarock2001]

Thanks. Regards from Australia 🤓🇦🇺

[@andrewthompsonuk1]

I've been in 737s that have deployed the spoilers to get back to the glideslope during severe weather-- it drops quiclky.

[@Tadesan]

A heartbreaking story. Hugs

[@Thelivewire64]

Procedures are in place for a reason! Post piston era, aircraft were so much more complex. No more seat of the pants!

[@felterhills7973]

I'm just curious, since the plane touched down already (though very hard one), why would the captain initiated a retrying (go-around) instead of continue with the landing ?

[@intercommerce]

The video explains that when it touched down, the plane was already committed to a climbing attitude, with nose up and engines roaring. So the captain decided to keep climbing, unaware of the damage already incurred.

[@dunbar9finger]

Engines take quite a few seconds to transition from full thrust to idle thrust. Once the plane was already at full thrust and already had begun accelerating to climbing speed again it would have consumed quite a bit of runway distance to change plans and make it start decelerating again. They probably thought if they tried they'd run out of runway before coming to a stop. Besides that if they didn't know the plane was badly damaged it would be industry standard to go around because that's normally the rule - if you don't know for sure you have everything how you want it it's better to do the whole landing over again than to keep trying to salvage the screwy landing you're in the middle of. If you have a plane that's still able to fly that's the safer option. They didn't realize their airplane wasn't in a flyable state.

[@janicenicholls5924]

I remember this so well.

[@porterijsseldijk3953]

I literally searched up Passenger plane crashes in Toronto, I'd didn't expect to see there was actually a catastrophic one. I have seriously never heard of this.

[@funnibaldman]

As a Canadian, I can confirm that this is Air Canada’s deadliest aviation accident probably

[@cchris874]

It's the most high profile Air Canada crash, but on reflection the AC (Trans-Canada) DC-8 Montreal crash killed more. And Swissair 111 and also Arrow Air DC-8 at Gander each had over twice the fatalities. I think Arrow was the highest toll. A lot of DC-8s!

[@funnibaldman]

@@cchris874 Thanks for the correct info! Sometimes I’m forgetting things…

[@kpn574]

On the other hand, had seen another video on pilots trusting their plane too much. Well, prepare for the worst and do your best should be the motto.

[@Lisa-fq7ks]

Subscribed!

[@Dutchy-1168]

I remember that Sunday ....very sad ‼️🇨🇦

[@Sashazur]

Another great video! At 8:07 the captions say the opposite from the voiceover re. spoilers deploying, please fix.

[@hectormonclova7563]

So sad! Lack of communication (FO should have informed when he armed the spoilers), not enough training on an upgraded technology, muscle memory on what needed an action with full awareness. But that is why those kind of things are done in a checklist, for them to run fluidly and flawlessly when executing the landing. I respect so much the pilot profession, where tiny VERY HUMAN mistakes elsewhere laughable, can turn deadly. It must have been so horrible to spends your last moments on Earth with the realization that your death, and the one of everyone surrounding you, is imminent, and it’s do to your fault, a tiny error commited in a split second. Thank you for all that information, and valuable lesson on something that in its principle transcends the field of aviation.

[@liamneeson303]

Its very sad but a go around after such hard landing not knowing if theres damage makes no sense. Bad pilots period.

[@jonathandpg6115]

@@liamneeson303 Well the investigation concluded the go around was an acceptable solution given what the pilots knew/didn’t know. It’s always easier to judge after. That being said I agree with OP, they should have communicated a lot better, this is why you do annoying repetitions….ok is vague…arm the spoilers is not….This would have maybe helped the FO realize when he would say “spoilers deployed” that there was something wrong. It’s also important to double check what you are doing.

[@liamneeson303]

@@jonathandpg6115 if we keep making excuses instead of upgrading procedures tragedies will keep happening

[@liamneeson303]

@@jonathandpg6115 im sure relatives of people who died onboard wont find consolation in words like " very human mistake " or " elsewhere laughable "...we re not anywhere else we re on an aircraft and this things wouldnt happen with proper training and policies.

[@georgeconway4360]

Not much muscle memory for arming the spoilers, just lift the handle up to the stop and let it go.

[@jonathandevries2828]

Anyone know how to remove youtubes weird scroll bar? i like the one with the triangles at the top and bottom...

[@KCFlyer2]

This accident was referenced in the book Destination Disaster. The "fix" for this was to install a placard that said "do not deploy in flight." The author said that it might as well have said "Do not crash this plane".

[@cchris874]

That was a great book, maybe the best of its kind.

[@user-tq1tf6hh9w]

Excellent video. Noticed the plane T&G on runway 33L in the video. In reality, Runway 32, as it was identified in 1970, is today's Runway 33R at Pearson.

[@mikehenderson631]

Can you please do the one I don't know the parameters of it or when it happened there was one plane that landed on a levee in Louisiana

[@dwlopez57]

There is a you tube video or 2 at least. It was 1988 and it was an airline from El Salvador. There was an ice storm the engines ingested ice particles as I recall and shut down. Hope you can find the videos I dont know the links

[@kcindc5539]

TACA 110. It’s an utterly amazing story. The stunningly talented 29 year-old one-eyed captain (yes, you read that correctly) of TACA 110 not only landed his unpowered 737 onto the grassy middle of a levee in the middle of a fierce thunderstorm , he performed an unheard-of-for-a-commercial-airliner side slip maneuver (something normally performed in gliders or a single engine cessna) to avoid overshooting the levee, he brought it down completely unscathed - no passengers were injured and no damage to the aircraft. After mechanics swapped in two new engines they towed the plane off the grass levee and onto a nearby service road located at the adjacent military facility. As it turns out, that particular road was at one time an active runway for the facility. So they brought in two Boeing test pilots who then flew the empty plane right from the service road and over to MSY airport to get it ready to return to service. That bird was later sold to Southwest who operated until it was retired in December 2016, 28 years after it famously landed on that levee.

[@dwlopez57]

@@kcindc5539 yes it seems miraculous. However I take issue with your des ription of it as "unheard of". Remember this was after the Gimli Glider incident in Canada in which the pilot used his glider piloting skills to safely dead stick land a 767 in Canada. Not taking anything away from the TACA pilot