How do German schools teach World War II?

Today I sit with my German friend Anne to chat about what she learned in school in Berlin about World War II and the holocaust and such. Podcast style sit and chat! Well kinda. :) This is a lil different than my usual style, which usually means the algorithm will not love me, but I thought it'd be interesting so I'm making it anyway; welcome to my channel haha.
Anne: / anne.png
Vlog channel / evanedinger
Thank you so much for watching! Hope you enjoyed it!
If you're new to my channel and videos, hi! I'm Evan Edinger, and I make weekly "comedy" videos every Sunday evening. As an American living in London I love noticing the funny differences between the cultures and one of my most popular video series is my British VS American one. I'm also known for making terrible puns so sorry in advance. Hope to see you around, and I'll see you next Sunday! :)
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[@evan]

If you wanna chat about this vid or anything I'll be streaming on twitch right now while editing some Berlin photography I've taken :) twitch.tv/evanedinger

[@ChrisSmith105]

Please make a video of Anne going through the 52 states. :)

[@derwolf7810]

I just wanted to say that at least it's said that Germany invented the atom-bomb (though i never fact checked that, so i don't know whether that's true or a tale from phantasy land); however, in case i remember right (and i don't remember where i heard that rumor at all), the legend is (more or less) as follows: In specific Otto Hahn, Lise Meitner and Otto Frisch discovered nuclear fission, some told the Nazis about that (and the big amount of energy that it releases), but Hitler decided against trying to build such a bomb, because Lise Meitner and Otto Frisch were Jews and he suspected them of somehow wanting to saboptage the german war efforts by trying to waste money and materials. Otto Hahn (together with some other physicists) then was detained in Britain near Cambridge (for whatever reason - can't remember). After they heard from the atom bombs beeing dropped on 6. und 9. August 1945, it is said that Otto Hahn was devastated at first (he felt beeing morally responsible) and stayed in his room for days, but after he came and felt better, he noticed that the physicists discussed some technical detail of how to start the chain reaction and it (alegedly) took him only half a day to solve that problem, which made the other physicists believe, that he knew the answer from the start and just thought about whether or not he should tell anyone the solution.

[@wessexdruid7598]

Evan - re 25:30 - Heisenberg is always touted as the one running the Nazi effort to build an atom bomb, but failed. However, Heisenberg was running just one project, of at least a dozen managed by the SS, all working independently. There is physical evidence of this - and witness testimony of at least one tactical weapon test (the weapons they were trying to build were MUCH smaller than the Manhattan Project). While the Americans were still working on that, they took over the SS work in Europe (there was much competition to beat the Soviets) - remember, this was four months before the Manhattan Project came to fruition. The SS General in charge across all of this work (and of the Me262, V2 and other rockets), Hans Kammler, was believed for decades to have died at the end of the work - but, behind the scenes, it is now known that he was spirited to the US, with the help of Werner Von Braun. There is a channel, Lost Battlefields, run by Tino Struckmann, who has done a huge amount of historical research into this and the underground areas where the Nazis built their weapons - check out his work? He is not the only academic, by a long way, to believe the US stood on German shoulders to get their bomb. But is not in the USA's interest for this all to be known.

[@wessexdruid7598]

@@ChrisSmith105She's already in the 52nd.... ~whistles~

[@user-zu2dg1re3d]

@@ChrisSmith105I can understand her mistake, from the19th century on US is debating over Puerto rico and washington d.c. recently sinds 2020, it would be called "state of new columbia of washington, douglas commonwealth "

[@Bumi-90]

As a German, my art teacher actually had a little project, where we should think of little easy to draw pictures, that cover the lines of a swastika, so we had a litte portfolio of art to cover up swastikas if we find one. And it was even tollerated to do graffiti in my City, as long as it was to cover up something hateful with something else (whithin reason)

[@einat1622]

That's awesome.

[@valle1973]

I love that so much!!!

[@Bumi-90]

The easiest is btw. to transform it into a point-symmetrical flower

[@idjitslover6738]

@@koschmxif u used a different colour (like pink or another unusual colour) and didn’t carry black on u, so no confusion would occur if this situation did happen.

[@wolf310ii]

@@koschmx If you get cought, its still vandalism, two wrongs doesnt make a right. Its the owners responsiblity to remove illegal nazi symbols ftom its property, not strangers responsibility to paint it over.

[@GG-yb3gs]

In the UK I'm pretty sure my first introduction to the topic of world war 2 was in primary school and focused on the blitz and what the experience of everyday people was like, building Anderson shelters, carrying gas masks, blacking out the windows, using ration books and the evacuation of children to the countryside. These things all had a huge impact on Britain going forward, and as a child many of our grandparents had experienced these things first hand. Then in around year 8 or 9 I remember learning about the politics behind it, the ideology, the Holocaust and the battles, though I don't remember needing to know specific dates or names of battles. We touched on what happened at Bletchley Park as well.

[@felixhenson9926]

I mean we deffo did D-Day

[@Thurgosh_OG]

Agreed, that was close to my learning on this, In secondary school, we got more detailed history about the dictators in Europe, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin etc.

[@peterjeremymckenzie8444]

Oddly going to school late 60s and 70s we had no history taught regarding WWII, got it all from TV like "The World at War" or films or comics/magazines plus what relatives told you. But that all changed by the 90s when my kids went to school when it seemed to be continuous.

[@jerry2357]

⁠As a child and teenager in the 1970s, the ITV programme The World at War taught me a lot more than anything we did at school. And we also learned from older people who experienced the war, such as my parents, who were children at the time. The Bletchley Park stuff was new news in the 1970s, and the programme The Secret War was extremely important in disseminating knowledge about this.

[@HannahJ]

I don’t remember looking at WW2 until we got to Upper School (Year 9+) but I grew up with my Dad watching lots of war movies or visiting places on holiday that had relevance. On one trip to France we went to Arromanches which is part of the Dunkirk beach landings. My Dad also did training at Bletchley Park when it was part of GPO/BT (long after it had stopped doing the code breaking stuff). We went to the museum bit about 10 years ago (my foster son was covering a bit of WW2 in history) and then we went again last week in fact. (It’s so much better now than it was lol). Earlier this summer we visited Berlin and went to the the Jewish Museum and my 9yo learnt a whole bunch that he’d not even started learning about in school

[@Olivia_Of_Alderaan]

Hi 👋🏻 I'm a secondary school history teacher in the UK. Thank you so much for making this video. It's fascinating to hear how other countries teach history. I tend to teach ww2/nazis/Holocaust from the perspective of the people who went through it. We definitely teach that war is bad for everyone. I used to really hate studying it in school but now I'm teaching it I actually really enjoy teaching it because I recognise why it's so important that kids learn the lessons morally and socially.

[@klimtkahlo]

My father used to tell me the best history teacher he had was one that gave him an idea of what was happening in a variety of countries at the time, so that connected the world and gave you a better overview. My father always helped me study for my history tests. Basically I wouldn’t study, at dinner time, which for me was 8 PM I asked him to help me with questions, he would ask me, I would have no clue about anything and he would say, go study about what I just asked you because it will come on the test (and he wasn’t a teacher, didn’t even finish college), I would and always had really good grades, if not the best grade of the class because of my genius father who remembered still everything he studied.

[@MCrvngraddip2013]

I remember being shown the documentary the soviets made about discovering Aushwitz. Watched it in year 9. And we all cried.

[@IainMcGirr]

So when are you going to teach what you did in Ireland your first colony and India ... etc.. I hope you cover that ..in the UK my English cousins have NO CLUE .you dont get an Empire by being nice .. Im sure your a decent person etc. .but really come on...

[@NotSure7474]

@@IainMcGirrexactly, it’s all propaganda anyway. The one thing I find disturbing is the level of guilt tripping the Jews have instituted against the German people. I only wish they will one day soon break loose from the occupation.

[@Olivia_Of_Alderaan]

@@IainMcGirr I've worked at a number of schools and in all but one we taught both Ireland and India. And we also had a whole module about empire and why it was bad. Curriculums are different across schools due to a number of things. Both India and Ireland are on the national curriculum so most schools should teach them. This can vary for lots of reasons but any decent school in my opinion would teach both. I have taught both and emphasis how there is always good and bad on both sides of any conflict AND that it's important for us to understand the wrong doings England/Britain has done.

[@andywilliams7323]

America joining in the European theatre, wasn't because Germany and Japan were allies. It was because Germany officially declared war on the US on December 11th 1941, and then began attacking American ships, 4 days after Japan had attacked Pearl Harbour

[@johnsmith-mq4eq]

The USA was reporting Uboats to British Navy from early 1941 It was at war with Germany it was Germany that waited until Dec to reply by making it official on the USA

[@JP-ec9rl]

Actually they started attacking our merchant ships well before that but we were supplying Britain. You could argue that we sided with the allies from the beginning even though we weren't kinetically involved in the European theater.

[@andywilliams7323]

@@JP-ec9rl That's not true. Prior to January 1942, US Merchant Ships had absolutely no involvement in transporting supplies to Britain because the US was neutral. Supplies to Britain from the US were transported by British, Canadian and other allied nation merchant ships, such as Norway and the Netherlands, mostly from Canadian ports. Prior to December 11th 1941, just 21 US merchant ships were damaged or sunk in isolated accidental and deliberate German attacks. None of them were involved in supplying Britain or the war effort. They were all entirely neutral. In April 1941, despite its neutrality, the US extended the Pan-American Security Zone beyond US waters almost as far as Iceland. Such that some US Navy warships began escorting British and Canadian merchant ship convoys alongside the British Royal Navy and Canadian Royal Navy as far as Iceland. During this period between April and December 1941, the US Navy had 6 direct actions with German U-boats and surface ships between Canada and Iceland, from which 126 US Navy personnel were killed, 115 of them from the sinking of the USS Reuben James on October 31st 1941 by U-552. Following Germany's declaration of war on the US on December 11th 1941, only then did US merchant ships become involved in the European war, along with the entire Atlantic fleet of the US Navy, and only then were US ships unrestrictedly and zealously targeted by the German Navy and Air Force.

[@boredstudent9468]

​@@JP-ec9rl technically they weren't just attacking us Ships. As Germany was already at war with Britain there was a blockade set up. Which America didn't like and tried to breach, at the end of the day that's the same result though

[@JP-ec9rl]

@@boredstudent9468 yes well, in a perfect world nobody should be telling anyone who they should and should not ship goods to. An attack on a merchant vessel is a blatant act of war, no matter how we frame the narrative.

[@Frahamen]

The way Americans talk about a the world wars and think about it in terms of "wins" is extremely disturbing. It wasn't a game. It was the worst tragedy in history.

[@Believer3_]

they also wernt the strongest force in ww2 and entered the war very late,, and did not very much in comparison to other nations,, they claim it for their ego... thats all

[@vladutzuli]

Well, what you have to understand is that when you are so isolated and protected geographically from the rest of the world, nothing seems 'real' anymore. It's why they get so angry and somber about 9/11. Its the one bad thing that happened on their soil in centuries. To europeans the world wars are a lot more serious of a topic because it was here, it was our cities, our families etc.

[@thescrewfly]

@@vladutzuli They had their own traumas, they just don't learn enough about them. "The one bad thing" is a weird thing to say - never heard of slavery, the genocide of Native Americans or the American civil war? Quite a lot for a country less than 250 years old.

[@nicolehughes7863]

I agree with your general mesaage but it's simplifying to just say 'worst'. There are so many horrific events in history, that we actively participated in! The educational approach as A WHOLE needs improvement

[@littlefishy6316]

Yes, no winners in war

[@damagedheather]

Anne has such a lovely mix of a German/British accent. It sounds so nice!

[@Arltratlo]

maybe the reason is, we learn Oxford English.... not American English, but it helps if you know the words for the same thing but called different between UK and USA....i personal went to Scotland and NZ, too...!

[@ASOXO]

Anne sounds extremely well spoken. Good video.

[@user-pl7sf9qm9o]

She is also VERY attractive. Intelligence always is.

[@marygembczyk]

I was looking for a comment from polish person, but I guess it’s gotta be me. The WW2 is a big thing. I did advanced level history in high school, but trust me, that even the ones that didn’t DID LEARN EVERY SINGLE DETAIL. Both dates and ideology. History classes also goes hand in hand with polish subject in schools, as at the same time we read the books, the dairies, the poetry from that period of time (many of the authors either died in war or camps or survived and wrote about this) and you got to know the full background and sometimes watch movies about it. we learn about the occupation, the Polish Underground State, the ghettos, the concentration camps, the holocaust, the uprisings but the occupants as well. The occupation period is also how patriotism is being teached (not only that, the partitions of Poland and how we got wiped off the map for 123 years after WW1 and somehow managed to regain its independence) and that patriotism is deeply rotted in generational trauma, victim complex as well as pride because of how much we care about it. We focus on the cruelty so it’s still so unimaginable you can’t forget about it while many of our grandparents or grand-grandparents also lost their lives, so I guess it still hits home for many. also we pay a lot of respect to very few last survivors of concentration camps or members of Home Army. At the age of 16 many schools also provide a trip to Auschwitz-Birkenau. And yeah, we use German terms in this case on purpose but you probably heard about how big of a deal it is in Poland, mostly when someone calls it ‘polish concentration camps’. Crazy ones go over the top to call them german camps, normal ones call them nazi or nazi-German camps. Yeah, it is THAT much of a delicate subject. Always wondered how Germans approach that period of history in their schools. Great video, thank you both for making it!

[@InsoIence]

This comment describes it really well. We learn about the immense atrocities but also comradery it created. I sincerely believe generational trauma is an important part of our mentality, which can be both good and bad at times. It directly influenced how Polish citizens handled Ukrainian evacuation.

[@lankanka1452]

Victim complex with pride, that's such a good description, I feel like we have something similar instilled in Hungarian society

[@lollorosso4675]

As a German, I will say that one visit to Auschwitz taught me more about the holocaust than years of school. Mind you, we covered the subject extensively in school - but the horror of it never quite caught up to me before seeing mountains of hair, shoes, glasses and other belongings of the people murdered there by my grandparents’ generation of Germans - and yes, while I do not know the exact amount of personal guilt and complicity my grandparents accrued, I know they were followers of the Nazi ideology. Never again must we allow this to happen - not in Germany, not elsewhere.

[@chriskimber7179]

I can't think of any country that suffered more than Poland during either of the wars! Strength, courage and compassion to you in these trying times!

[@oiytd5wugho]

"the partitions of Poland and how *we* got wiped off the map for 123 years" Yeah, the patriotic propaganda is working

[@lauridsd]

Born and raised in Ohio, I don't remember getting much WWII history until high school, but we had a very interesting experience in my freshman English class. One day before our class started, another teacher, who was of German descent and spoke reasonably fluent German, loudly barked angry orders at us in German as we entered the classroom, separated the class into males and females, told us where to sit (opposed to our normal seats,) etc. After the class started, it was revealed revealed that her family were Holocaust survivors, and this experience was an allusion to what happened to Jews and other victims when they were rounded up by the Nazis. This began a discussion / module on WWII and the Holocaust, etc. (That might be when we read The Diary of Anne Frank.) In History class, I do remember learning about the socio-political and economic environment in Germany after WWI that opened the door for Hitler and the Nazis to ascend to power. I remember learning about America's initial isolationism and resistance to the war, the use of the Lend-Lease Act to help support England, and then our eventual joining the war as a result of Pearl Harbor. I am fortunate to have gone to Germany in 1989 (with a choir, not related to school,) and had home stays with German families, where this topic came up. It was very interesting to hear their perspective on how Germans associate with this dark history. On that trip we had actually started in Amsterdam and visited the Anne Frank house, and then later in the same trip we visited the memorial at the site of the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, where Anne died. Many years later I also visited the U.S. Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. Being your average white suburbanite man, I have an innate fascination with WWII, and the historical and hero stories pervasive in our pop culture: Band of Brothers, Schindler's List, etc. American's are definitely steeped in the tradition that we were on the correct side, and participated for moral reasons, etc.

[@lindastaines8288]

To be fair those morals only kicked in when USA became under attack, not for the years before when we were all being bombed and Europe was in turmoil

[@Flowerofearth]

Southern England - we were taught about the 'home front' so what ordinary people had to deal with during the years of the wars - bombing raids, rationing, propaganda, children being moved to the country side. We also learnt about the start of WW1, the inter-war years, and then the post WW2 years in Europe - along with the cold war.

[@alexferguson5346]

Pretty much the same for me in Scotland. We learnt a A LOT about the various tensions going on in europe before the start of WW1 and spent hardly any time on WW2 in comparison.

[@SimonWakefieldUK]

​@@alexferguson5346Really? You should have gone from the end of WW1 and into the punishments the newly formed League of Nations imposed on Germany including the impossibly high reparations and how these helped tank the German economy and helped create an environment of resentment that the Nazis were able to exploit. Certainly we were in Hampshire, we probably spent more time on that than we did WW2 itself which beyond the initial attempts of appeasement of Hitler and his invasions in the east and then his invasion west we didn't do much

[@charlotlottie]

South east England, mostly the same. Didn't do inter war years or post war (didn't choose history for GCSE though so not sure if they did). And through English (literature) also did some study of France and trench life - though 2 WW1 was far heavier than ww2 france

[@JimmyJr630]

Midlands - Unit on WW1 how it begun and events in the war as well as the aftermath. Unit on Great Depression and how Hitler came to power as well as communists in Germany and why Jews were targeted. Learn about events in the war, such as Pearl Harbour and D Day as well as atrocities against the Jews. Unit on America where a part focuses on how the WW2 fixed the great depression and brought progress for women. Unit on the cold war and Potsdam and Yalta and how the east and west divide was created. Also learn about the nuclear bombs and how it caused tension. The rest of the Cold War unit it just about how different events such as the berlin airlift, hungarian uprising, vietnam war, bay of pigs, cuban missike crisis, korean war etc all caused more tension as well as smaller events such as inventing new types of weapons. Yalta and Potsdam is about how east vs west could not agree what to do with Europe after WW2. Also most of this comes if you choose GCSE History.

[@jasonw95]

How she goes on I don’t think they really teach the death totals and all the war crimes which were committed

[@eloquentlyemma]

American funding the allies during the war is an interesting concept. It was the 90s when Britain was able to finally pay of its debt for American aid.

[@user-xi6nk4xs4s]

Apparently it's hard to distinguish between loans and funding for US Americans. Looking forward to the way it will be handled when the Ukraine war ends.

[@conormurphy4328]

So what I’m hearing is Americans don’t get credit for that, they just gave a loan.

[@user-xi6nk4xs4s]

@@conormurphy4328 How much credit do you give your bank? Off course the US of A did get credit for it at the time (and still does), but some factual knowledge by the current generations would be nice as well. Individual US Americans who slap themselves on the breast for this are just plain stupid.

[@autohmae]

This is what went from in Afghanistan in the 1970s/1980s I think, the world would probably be a better place if the US or other western countries invested in Afghanistan after the Russians were defeated by the Afghan people and the CIA working with Israel and Pakistan.

[@sacmaps]

31st December 2006 was when Britain finished paying off the war debt.

[@heatherbc7914]

I'm in the uk and the thing that sticks with me most was a trip that we went on to a local synagogue. It was a combined religious studies and history trip, and the first half was fairly light hearted and they showed us around and told us about their religion etc. Then we all sat down and a holocaust survivor came in and told us about her experience. The coach back to school was so quiet after that.

[@NotSure7474]

Guilt tripping kids is their specialty 😊

[@alz2470]

@NotSure7474 Guilt? This was in the UK, so no reason for that, especially with children. It's possible to acknowledge something horrible that happened and to listen to a survivor's story without that meaning that you personally have to feel guilty for it.

[@cesbi]

Great explanations, Anne! Well done. My personal experience in school was a bit different. We focused very much on how everybody was responsible and how a whole society can go from being normal citizens to turning completely evil. We read books like Die Welle to explore these social dynamics in a hypothetical modern setting and so on... Also, I heard that it is by design that we don't learn about battles. German curriculum very intentionally does not include warfare and focuses instead of the social implications.

[@its_just_seb]

I'm swiss, and I too don't remember being taught about a single battle in school. I think it's actually kind of weird to be taught single battles because what is there to learn from it? And on top of that I think it's all too easy to slip into a win-lose mentality and be proud if "your side" won the battle when really, everyone loses when lives are ended.

[@MaximumEfficiency]

did anyone in school how Germany has become occupied US&A puppet state with no constitution and immigrants. Also it's getting de-industrialized.

[@foxintrash9636]

I’m from Munich Germany and I think I’ve had a bit of a different experience in education. I would say I wasn’t taught shame but rather like a form of responsibility, not responsibility for what happened but responsibility for understanding it and preventing a repeat. But still that’s a heavy burden. I do think there’s some shame or lack of pride in German nationality more generally. I’m studying in Sweden and there are so many Germans here but we rarely speak German with each other because we’d rather not acknowledge that we’re both German. I agree that it is a really present topic. Like we have a family recipe and it’s from an uncle who was a nazi and most times we referenced it as the nazi uncles cake. Also, my grandparents have old pictures of their extended family where that uncle is just dressed up in his nazi uniform. So it’s just everywhere.

[@Mr-pn2eh]

I thought bevarians were only taught about pretzels, lederhosen, and BMW. 😂

[@foxintrash9636]

@@Mr-pn2eh Literally none of those are topics you can Actually learn much about so no… It’s actually a bit sad how little we are taught about Bavaria specifically, Bavarian is a really interesting dialect with some unique grammatical features but it’s spoken by very few people today since schools discouraged speaking it. I know this comment was meant to be funny but you get pretty tired of hearing the same three stereotypes repeated every time so it really isn’t all that funny to me. Maybe I’m just reinforcing the stereotype that Germans don’t have humour with this comment, how ironic.

[@stigolumpy]

@@Mr-pn2eh Loool you sarcy b*****d. In the UK, we just learn about bland food and the industrial revolution. Oh and colonising different countries. /s of course.

[@thescrewfly]

@@stigolumpy I think it might be more helpful to actually use the word 'sarcasm'. Not everyone is hip to the trip, daddio!

[@stigolumpy]

@@thescrewfly Alrighty then, you could be correct! "Sarcastic" instead of "sarcy" it is!

[@tuttasb]

I think most countries involved in the war teaches the history from their perspective. I'm norwegian and a large part of our curriculum was about the war in Norway but of course also about the ideology and how this could happen. We also learned a lot about how nazi's were punished after the war but also how bad we treated norwegian girls that got german boyfriends or ended up pregnant with a german (those innocent kids had a though time growing up). But we were never thought that the germans was bad, it was very clear that there was bad leader(s) and bad people but also nice germans that unfortunately had to do things agains their will. Even my grandparents told stories about nice german soldiers that despite the fear of being punished themselves, choose to help norwegians during the war. Anne Frank's Diary was on out curriculum, also watching Shindler's List at the cinema and I've visited Bergen Belsen with my school once. The americans being the heroes? They were part of the allies but I think norwegian give most of the credit to the british.

[@lucie4185]

In the UK we learn a lot about German life before and during the war in a "this is what the breeding ground for far right views looks like". British viewpoints are covered too though for both world wars.

[@KimberleyEdwardsfacecakes]

Where in uk are you from ingot taught Hitler bad which makes Germans bad, but we was soon strong etc. I am happy I have done my own learning from my grandparents who lived it and reading books

[@daftgowk1]

​@@KimberleyEdwardsfacecakeslol, i learned most ww2 history from Victor and Warlord comics, school was rubbish. My grandad who was torpedoed twice in the merchant navy, watched his friends head roll off his shoulders, then he joined the army so he could shoot back. This is all he spoke of the war. Legend

[@dugebuwembo]

The American involvement was crucial for the allies to succeed in the war! The American war effort was unprecedented & this is after decades of isolationism the Nazis didn't expect the American military complex to be so advanced or powerful, Hitler scoffed at America until he was faced with the reality of the war effort.

[@lucie4185]

@@KimberleyEdwardsfacecakes The national curriculum in england teaches Weimar Germany from the treaty of Versailles rise of Hitler, life in Nazi Germany as part of GCSE History. There's loads of other things about wartime life, battles technology the Holocaust etc as well.

[@ciara1045]

This is so interesting! I assumed my experience would be more similar to Evan's, growing up in England but the way we learned was actually much more similar to Anne (without the shame) - most of the emphasis was on the tragic loss of life in the UK and concentration camps specifically, and what life was like here during the war and the politics leading up to it in the UK and Germany. We did learn about the battles a bit but even that was mostly on a school trip to France where we visited some of the battlefields. Maybe because our grandparents all had lived experience more like Germany than the USA we still lean towards remembrance than pride

[@fibanocci314]

I'm American and learned WWII more similarly to you and Anne, than Evan.

[@latinmonsieur]

This is because in a way, the UK also "lost" the war. The British Empire was a world power comparable with the US before the war. After the war, the US took over leadership over the western world and made European powers get rid of their colonies. The UK suffered a lot during the war, the economy was devastated, many civilian lives were lost and cities destroyed. It was forced to rely on the US for reconstruction and the US helped them from a position of superiority, solidifying UK's descent from a position of a world power into a US dependent state. Meanwhile in the US, only some soldiers died overseas. Mainland US got much richer because of the war and especially in the aftermath profiting from the reconstruction of the world. The US also occupied many countries around the world and spread their economic and military influence in the globe after the war. So yeah, for the US, it was a clear victory with no caveats, for the brits, they were definitely better off if the conflict hadn't happened.

[@francescascanlan4549]

This is so weird but I knew Anne back in 2017 or so when she lived in London. Imagine my shock when I clicked on this video, as I do with all of Evan’s videos, and see her there! Hi Anne!

[@AnneLovesYou7]

Hi Fran!!!!

[@Slammigon]

Well interesting, I have a completle different experience with german history lessons. I come from Hesse, I am currently a teacher in Hesse, not in History, but I went through the History Lessons myself as a student and sometimes I am a substitute teacher in History. You will hear all topics twice, first time from 5th to 10th grade, second time from 11th to 13th grade but more intense. WWII is only topic for half a year in 9th grade and half a year in 12th grade. It did not dominate all the History lessons. And I didn't feel like it was presented with shame, in the sense that we should feel ashamed of it, but more like "remember and don't repeat" but that could differ from teacher to teacher. And I never heard of the argument, that Germany invented the A-Bomb except for some right-wing people who seek their pride in the achievements of other people who happened to have a german ancestry. And it definetly is not part of the school curriculum.

[@mogreen19]

As a German and history I can say that yes there is a very small amount of truth but the AfD Nazis tend to spread a lot of bullshit: The Wehrmacht was just a few years away from building an atom bomb but special forces operations from the US and allies did not just hamper the progress but pretty much killed the program. Sad thing is the nazis did have the theory about the bomb and were starting to make heavy water which you need for reactors, but thanks to fate and allied intervention it was years away from completion.

[@MichaelBurggraf-gm8vl]

I agree with your description. She's right about putting less focus on Adolf Hitler. But I can neither confirm the matter being taught while instilling shame. At least of what I can remember about it I'd rather say that our teachers avoided confusing the subject with emotional burdens. The idea - at that time, beginning 1980ies - was rather to present the facts as clearly and objectively as possible. And much of that was actually confirmed by my grandparents and parents as far as they could remember or know about of that period. Building a nuclear bomb was mainly out of question. There must have been vague ideas about that. But their early investigation went just far enough to show that it would require efforts that weren't affordable and would take too long to be relevant for the war. BTW, Einstein never had anything to do with German efforts of developing nuclear technology. After Hitler's rise to power Einstein decided to remain in the USA due to his previous experiences with antisemitism of the Nazis. Additionally Einstein didn't work intensively on nuclear physics which was predominantly an experimental matter at that time. Einstein was working mainly on relativistic and gravitational theories trying to find a reasonable general field theory. Being a Nobel laureate Einstein was asked to put his signature on the letter to President Roosevelt because L. Szillard and others were hoping that it would increase authority and urgency to the matter which it did. Einstein certainly understood the possible implications of nuclear chain reactions which have been discovered by Otto Hahn, Karl Strassmann and Lise Meitner around the turn of 1938/1939. Actually it was Lise Meitner who was drawing the correct conclusions from Otto Hahn's experimental results. Since she was living in exile in Sweden already she forwarded the findings immediately to N.Bohr who brought them quickly to England and the USA.

[@winterlinde5395]

That’s history class. But then I had my first nazirelated book in German class in grade five. Damals war es Friedrich. Later „Sansibar oder der letzte Grund“, „Nathan der Weise“ that’s what I remember from the top of my head from 30 years ago. And I know from my son‘s French class now, that they learn about the French perspective in French language class. Also: in Werte und Normen (kind of philosophy class if you don’t want to take religion.

[@leza4453]

​@@littlefishy6316okay you either a bot or fell for Russian propaganda. Nato is a defence alliance and was in really bad shape a few years ago. It was even called 'brain dead' by Macron. Ukraine was never allowed to join Nato. NOBODY was threathening Russia in the slightest. The only issue Putin had with Nato, is that it made his conquering plans more difficult. He alone made Nato great again. His gangster state tells his own people, that live is bad everywhere, so they should not look for better governance. But they see their neighbors turn to the European Union and prosper there in freedom and he sees that as a threat to his rule. The Russian state has an army of bots and trolls trying to undermine free societies from within and the far-right everywhere gobbels it up and redistributes it, but it is just lies by corrupt politicians, leeching of their people. Don't believe that crap.

[@hape3862]

@@littlefishy6316 It's rather you who is naïve if you believe the Russian propaganda that Russia felt threatened by NATO expansion - which was even furthered by the war with *Ukraine* (that's the country name you're looking for!) without Russia being bothered by it, strangely. And wasn't the aim to free Ukraine from the Nazis? Oh no, it was about liberating ethnic Russians in the Donbass. Oh, wait, it was about American bio labs in Ukraine breeding killer mosquitoes! Come on, don't be so gullible.

[@GettNumber]

American here. My schooling was definitely different to yours Evan. Sure, we talked about D-day and the blitzkrieg, or the pacific theatre, but it was always in reference to the tragedy of war. The Holocaust was of heavy focus in 5th grade, with the events leading to the subjugation of Jews and the experiences they had to go through in concentration camps. Little food, killing lines, forced labor, for children and adults, all because of a religion they followed. Later in school, we also talked about the experiments they would conduct and how it was not just Jews, but many different peoples who were subjugated, talking about the ideology of racial classification, eugenics, and the general disregard for humans of different walks of life. In the pacific theatre, we focused on the tragedy of Pearl Harbor as the death of many men from a senseless attack. Or the equally tragic dropping of the nukes, seeing photos of how shadows of civilians were burned into the walls of buildings, and the radiation sickness killing many more after the war ended. We mentioned Japanese colonialism and briefly skimmed over events like Nanking, but the focus was always more on the European side. War was never celebrated. It was always in context of lives being lost, of tragedy and destruction, for both sides involved. EDIT: Forgot to mention we also focused on America's version of concentration camps, as my state was the hub for it. We discussed how countless innocent Japanese-American civilians were subjugated into camps because of their heritage, even though many to almost all did not agree with the Japanese state. Even though the conditions were not as bad as Germany's, it was still incredibly unfair and traumatized many children. We read several accounts from first and second-generation Japanese-American children, about the forced relocation or the generally unhappy life they lived while in their formative years

[@Goofie_spielt]

Persecution of Jews was not a question of religion. Whether you were atheist or protestant did not matter when being sent to a concentration camp, only your jewish ancestry.

[@autohmae]

"all because of a religion they followed" That has also always been my 'confusion', as I understand it even among the Jewish people don't make a good distinction, you have '2 kinds of Jewish people', those with the religion and those who have are ancestor of the Jewish people who lived in those areas in the Middle East, near where we have Israel and Jerusalem now.

[@GettNumber]

ok my mistake. ethnoreligion was not specified and the nuance must have been forgotten because I was so young when I was taught this. Also, my area was quite mormon so it's possible that the plight of mormons was being mapped onto the jews in the holocaust

[@charleshayes2528]

@@GettNumber Hi, I believe the Nazis made use of the history of religious anti-Semitism to support their attacks on Jews, but the real reason - apart from race ideology - was to find a scapegoat to blame for Germany's ills after WWI - so: "Germany lost the war - we were betrayed by Jews". "The economy collapsed - international finance is controlled by Jews" and so on and so on. The Jews and esp. religious Jews were a minority in "christian" Germany. 97% were nominally "christian" and apparently there were more atheists and non-Christian religionists than Jews, with Jews being less than 1% of the total. Since Jews had been in Germany for many centuries, it is hardly likely that they suddenly represented a religious threat - they were a convenient target. When nations begin to struggle and esp when they lurch towards authoritarianism - they do it in the name of freedom and it is always freedom from "those people". We are seeing it in the UK, where asylum seekers are described in language that is reminiscent of 1930s Germany and which seeks to dehumanise them. This language isn't really about "them", but about the politicians trying to unite "us" together so we turn our attention outward and don't look at what they are doing to our economy or our society. I know a little about the Mormon migration to Utah, so am aware of a history of persecution, but I was not aware that it would influence the teaching of world history during your lifetime. Perhaps I am being naive about how long stories can last, however. I know that some Mennonites and other radical Reformation Peace Churches still recall the persecution they suffered during the Reformation and some Europeans still get worked up about what happened to them in 13-something or other. On the other hand, some have little problem with letting go. Turkey and Hungary have had friendly relations for a very long time, despite the Ottoman invasion and division of the country just under 500 years ago, for instance.

[@shinyshinythings]

@@GettNumberThat’s a really interesting point and I’d venture to guess you are correct about the “mapping”.

[@sianmorris5624]

That was really different from your usual setup, but still an extremely interesting and yet entertaining video; this felt like a very mature version of your “Brit vs US/International” series. Well done Evan!

[@codego]

Hi Evan. Been playing catch up on your vids after only stumbling across you a few weeks ago. Enjoying much from Halifax, west Yorkshire. This is one of my favourites. You and Anne were just great. 👍 I feel like this conversation/topic and the attitude towards can be applied to current affairs. Keep em coming pal. Cheers

[@nopenopenopenopenopers]

Anne, thank you for talking about this. As a jewish American whose great-grandma fled to NY because of Nazis and whose grandpa (her son) liberated jewish people from concentration camps while in the Army, I really appreciate how much Germans are taught about Nazi-ism, and how much responsibility you take for what Germany did, and how it's drummed into you how unacceptable it was. But please know I don't hold you responsible and don't need you to feel shame for what your great-uncle did. You had no control over him. Thank you.

[@MotherGoose264]

Indeed, personally i think we cant take credit for the positive achievements of our ancestors, nor do i feel guilty for any of their wrong doing. I am not them. BUT it is very important to keep teaching the brutal history without censorship so we never forget and dont repeat it. I compare it to slavery in the US,the current generations of white americans aren't to blame, BUT it is important to recognise the harm that was done and never repeat it. ✌️❤️

[@u105686]

While today white supremacy has taken hold and people here are actually glorifying Nazism. DISGUSTING.

[@Mike-rw2nh]

I really appreciate such a frank conversation. Especially at this time when populist politics is dominating the agenda in many countries. A sincere thanks for this upload. Greetings from North West England. ☮️

[@littlefishy6316]

Hate the term "populist", it's a slur from people who think they know better than others. I don't feel countries are being dominated by "populist" pressure given that governments are the pushing carbon zero agenda, suppression and cancelling of non mainsteam (dissenting) voices and forcing lockdowns and vax passports. Yes, a great discussion without falling out is very refreshing, so many with fixed dogma,

[@littlefishy6316]

Governments taking orders from WEF, military industrial complex and big pharma....... sadly, the political elite non longer fear the wrath of the electorate as it's just the omi party in most countries.

[@ericdpeerik3928]

Very frank.... Anne Frank

[@Siriusly_Sirius]

What a great conversation. Thank you, Anne for being open and honest.

[@hufflepuffwannabe]

This is super interesting! Thanks for making the video! And thank you to Anne for sharing!

[@KristopherBel]

Something that was missing from my US education was the Edelweiss society or sometimes called Edelweiss Pirates. They were a group of teenagers who were anti-nazi activists during the war, they worked to sabotage the nazi regime and save people. Its not a pretty hostory, but they are true heros.

[@berndhoffmann7703]

Weisse Rose?

[@hape3862]

I think you mean the "Weiße Rose" (white rose).

[@agnes1250]

No, the Edelweiß Pirates were a group rooted in the labourers movement. They were young socialists, often as young as 14 or 15 years. One of their main centers was cologne, where's a memorial for those of them who were hanged publically there.

[@jnyYT]

@@hape3862 They are different groups

[@hape3862]

@@agnes1250 Ah, ok. Thanks.

[@AdZS848]

This was so interesting! My kids are in local schools here in Germany and they learn about the war in the same way. An interesting thing to pick up on what the German girl sais about the national anthem, in a class of 25 kids in 10th grade, my kid is the only foreigner, and the only person who knew the whole German national anthem.

[@leza4453]

Germans only have the third verse as their anthem. The first two are not sung and taught for a reason.

[@AdZS848]

@@leza4453 my kid's classmates didn't know any of the verses completely

[@myeramimclerie7869]

I'm from Mecklenburg and went to public schools. Our education is really similar to Anne's experiences, but we did have to read Anne Frank's diary. We also didn't go to concentration camps because they were deemed too far away, but we did went to related museums when we had a week-long school trip to Berlin. We also watched a lot of WW2 related movies and documentarie and read other types of first hand sources, like short stories, letters and newspapers. Also, we learned a bit more about various battles, I remember the ones in Africa especially because the teaching was all about warfare and dates and it was boring as hell. We also did a deeper dive on pearl harbor and the atom bombs in Japan. But yes, the main focus is still the how and why and all about propaganda and ideology. And, coming from the east, our history classes were dived in three unequal parts: I felt like 19% was European history, like the French revolution, 30y war and so on, 1% was world history, mainly Americans killing natives and building railroads, 40% were the world wars with focus on the second one, and 40% was the aftermath of the war, the two Germanies, how all that happend, what led to the wall popping up and tumbling down and the good and bad of both East and West in past and present. Unfortunately we are yet to be properly unified, there are still so many misunderstandings and discriminations on both sides, and the East is still heavily disadvantaged when it comes to economy but that's a whole different topic.

[@daleykun]

When I was in Berlin, I felt like it was necessary for me to make a visit to a concentration camp to truly understand what it was like so went to Sachsenhausen. I knew that it would be distressing but nothing could prepare me for the horror and emotional anguish I felt going there and couldn't finish the tour without breaking down in tears. I think that it's something that everyone should experience though as it really does bring a whole new perspective to the magnitude of the terror of the holocaust and helped me understand how many small changes over time snowballed into 'the final solution' and how ordinary people wound up doing unspeakable acts. unfortunately I see a lot of parallels between the events leading up to 1933 onwards with the rise of so many nationalist governments and support for nationalist parties across the globe that it does make me feel very uneasy about our future.

[@dallassukerkin6878]

You are right to feel uneasy about the future, I concur. I am not so sure that the rise of Nationalism is a bad thing in and of itself, as it is a reaction to Globalism which, along with a burst of economic prosperity, has caused so many problems. Cultures are being smashed together too rapidly with the unhinged flows of migration from the Indian and African continental regions and it is that which is forcing wide the cultural cracks that a couple of decades of a poisonous aspect of 'Leftism' picked open. It's a cliche now but there is definitely a 'Last Days of the Roman Empire' tide that has been rising for a couple of decades and instability and war are coming in its wake.

[@InsoIence]

@@dallassukerkin6878 Seems like you missed the point.

[@dallassukerkin6878]

@@InsoIence I just took the subsidiary ending thought of the OP and elaborated on my own thoughts; we both see the same flows, we just have differing views on the dangers at hand. The main body of the post I had nothing to speak to as I utterly agreed.

[@kylecow1930]

from doing like, a gcse in history in the UK i feel like the english perspective for me was closer to this german one where the focus was on politics and ideology, in fact i dont even remember if our course even got to the war

[@Draiscor]

Agreed, I didn't do GSCE history, butI don't recall there being a particularly big focus on our "win" nor on the battles aside from a couple of key ones where a mistake was made, like the Somme. Most of what I remember is discussing the evacuation of children from the cities to the countryside, and life in wartime with rationing, air raid marshals, the shift to women working in the factories, and that sort of thing. There definitely was a fair amount of talking about the battle of Britain and our air superiority, though (that also had more focus and was pushed as a point of pride while I was an air cadet)

[@Draiscor]

Also, I don't think we really talked about the "Pacific theater," I didn't even really know anything about Pearl Harbour until I watched the film 😅

[@MsPeabody1231]

My GCSE history course covered WW1, Russian Revolution, then Germany from 1918 up to 1939. Then we did the fall of the British Empire after WWII. A big point made was about how people from aBritish colonies were involved in both wars. Actual WWII was left out because it was covered from about age 8 until 13 on and off.

[@Taylordwone]

It's always interesting to see how every person experiences life differently just because of geolocation. Great video idea as always Evan!

[@aarontt]

Super interesting video! I've always wondered how this topic was approached differently in Germany vs my education in the UK (weirdly enough I was actually thinking about it a few hours before this video was released 🤯) Really insightful, thanks for putting it together!

[@ryandixon8202]

Very interesting stuff, and you're both incredibly articulate. Thanks for the quality content :p

[@04williamsl]

I'm from England, I don't think we were taught about WW1/2 until year 9 (14ish); primary school were 'safe' stuff, like the Egyptians/Pharaohs etc. Years 7-8 were more "British History" (i.e Battle of Hastings). Then year 9 is when we were taught this stuff. We weren't necessarily taught "We won!" but more "this happened, this was absolutely shit, thousands died here", as well as Hitler's rise to power, his historic background and what led up to WW2 in relation and not related to Hitler... and then what treaties were made (Treaty of Versaille in WW1 for example). We also had a lot on life in Britain, too; the propaganda posters, the women doing mens jobs, rations etc. We knew we won, so it was more about the horrors and how peace came about as opposed to "we're great and beat Germany"

[@CEB525]

This almost matches my expirience but we had a term in primary school about the British expirience in the blitz. Because we did it not just in history but we covered war tone songs in music, made replica propaganda posters in art and focused on stories of children evacuated to the countryside

[@missprettyyandpinkk]

I remember being taught age 8/9 about the blitz, I think we even made gas masks, did a school production. Sang war songs, we even had an old air raid siren go off during the production!

[@04williamsl]

@@missprettyyandpinkk Part of me thinks we may have been taught about the blitz younger than year 9 now that I think back on it. We'd have been taught it was part of WW2, but would class it more as "British history" than "WW2 history", if that makes sense? Would have been taught about the Anderson shelters, gas masks etc, but not about the particulars of WW2. It's over 15 years ago now that for me though, so my memory isn't what it used to be!

[@missprettyyandpinkk]

@@04williamsl yeah for me it will be 20 years ago! I don’t know if the curriculum has changed since then.

[@Emmet_Moore]

I definitely remember learning about the Blitz, rationing and evacuees in primary school and reading/watching Goodnight Mister Tom and Carrie's War. So all home front stuff rather than Nazis and Holocaust, and then I don't think we studied the War properly again until GCSE, where I think one of the units was Germany 1918-45. Edit: I just remembered that lower sets read The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas in year 8 English, when I think we were reading Animal Farm or something.

[@Carhill]

This is a really fascinating discussion. Thanks for sharing Evan. Anne is a really eloquent guest! I'm Aussie, and whilst we did look at our role in WW2, it was largely overshadowed by the Pacific Theatre more broadly and the European Theatre. I read into history when I was much younger, but our first introduction at school was in Year 4 (2000/10yo) when an elderly WW2 vet came to class and spoke to us about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as well as his experience in Papua New Guinea. 16:55 - I know you're being flippant in context, but when the topic comes up, the sheer number of people who are surprised when I explain to them how extensive and horrifying the U.S. bombing campaign was on the Japanese mainland. Indiscriminate firebombings on civilian, military, and industrial targets in key strategic population centres... the death-toll of which, from any given raid, can easily eclipse that of the atomic bombings. It's truly horrifying stuff, yet most either never learn about it, or the atomic bombings overshadow the topic when learning about it. if anyone read this far, Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast covers this in the 'Logical Insanity' episodes. Well worth a listen. Edit: Also, the Germans were the ones who first demonstrated fission, and Werner Heisenberg led an almost successful project to develop a fission device, but was hampered throughout the entire war due to his contemporaries fleeing for fear of their lives and their families lives. This led to a huge brain drain of the who's-who of the physics community crossing the Atlantic. At the same time, the ideologically intoxicated German leadership looked down on quantum mechanics and atomic physics (among many topics) because they were considered "Judaic science", given the prevalence of prominent scientists in these fields coming from a Judaic background. Their ideology blinded them to the point that they subsequently de-prioritized these projects; cutting funding and resources progressively as the war went on. Heisenberg and his team ended up hitting a wall with deuterium, and despite having invaded Norway which had one of the largest reserves of heavy water at the time, he failed to solve the criticality problem to weaponise it. It's not known, but some believe Heisenberg and the team sabotaged their progress in development at every stage in protest for how their friends and colleagues were being treated by the government. Either way, despite having the resources and an insane head-start, I'm glad that nothing ever materialized from their efforts. Imagining a nuclear armed V2 in 1943 is a scary thought. James Mahaffeys 'Atomic Awakening' is a great read which, in part, touches on this. Take care ❤️

[@0utcastAussie]

Pretty sure I learned that German scientist DID create create the basic building blocks for the A bomb and even accidentally set in motion a "thermal runaway" kind of event that they all thought was going to create Armageddon - right in front of them ! (iirc they flooded the area with Sea Water in the vain hope it would stop the cataclysmic event unfolding. it obviously did). Their problem was finding a "Controller" for the fission process compounded by competing teams for funding. They tried Carbon and then Heavy Water from Norway iirc ? They didn't understand (or realise) that the Carbon wasn't pure enough to do the job. Heavy Water did the job but it also had other problems associated with it. (Namely getting it from Norway) The US/British teams concentrated on the Carbon route.

[@chriskimber7179]

Dan Carlin's 'Ghosts of the Oestfront' is fantastic too: really puts to rest the issue of who actually defeated the Nazis! In fact, you touch on another of Dan's great debates with your discussion of atomic 'brain drain'. In a shorter *ahem* discussion of "Which was better: WW1 or WW2 military" he figures the greatest weakness of the german military in WW2 were the Nazis. They would have been a greater threat if hadn't been for the stupidity of being such... ...Nazis.

[@doha4258]

this was a really great video! one of my favourites of yours

[@TarikDaniel]

Coming from Northern Germany, my experience are quite different than the ones from Anne. I believe she mixes a few things here. Historically, we have more pride in our local region because for the most part these were not only loose regions, but different states with own laws, borders and identity. Things have changed more over time, but still the local federal states have much power over education etc. And when Germans are abroad, they are mostly not ashamed of being German, they just don't like small talk and prefer to enjoy the holiday and experience something else than what you can get at home :P Never heard of someone being taught that "we" are responsible for what hapened in the past, but rather we learn why it's important to not let it happen again. But we also didn't cover the topic EVERY year in school. Maybe 2 or three times max (depending on your location and teacher). To put things into perspective, about 60 countries were involved in the war. It would be quite ambitious to learn about the war through the lens from each of them

[@connortopping6943]

UK is a very interesting mix of these 2. You learn about the politics and the warfare.

[@myrrhsense]

I'm from the Netherlands, and I remember once we were on an exchange in Germany, and we visited a history class. And the teacher started apologising for the war to us. It was a very strange situation. Also I feel like our history lessons on the topic is very centered around our county and what happened here. Also I feel like a lot of schools in the Netherlands do do visits to concentration camps.

[@Bumi-90]

My School in Germany didn't visit a Camp, but a hideout, used by a Group of jewish Familys in my City, it was a small Museum, with an recreation of the secret celler

[@Eric_Hunt194]

Harry Enfield had a comedy character who was a German living in London- every sketch would start with him apologising for the war... only for the bus to be 30 seconds late and the character would end up going on a rant about how "this would never happen under the Nazis!"

[@daanwilmer]

I have a similar experience. There are some important battles and dates, but mostly in the context of global politics.

[@Stroopwafe1]

I remember our school trip to Westerbork, which had a big impact on most of us I think. We also had a big focus around Anne Frank and visited the Anne Frank house as a school trip.

[@PerreErnst]

The best talk, english, about our history I've ever heard! Props to you two

[@jdglad1569]

this was a phenomena idea for a video. fascinating. well done. i absolutely love to hear about modern germans' perspective about this topic.

[@hsimpson6581]

Ann was awesome! I definitely learned more from her than I did in school. I love seeing another perspective on the whole World War II situation.❤😊

[@ProgressiveRoxx]

i am fascinated by the parallels in the US and Germany in learning about slavery and the Nazi's. i think that Germany have managed to actually learn from their dark past whereas the US (in terms of a general approach) still seem to be denying theirs and failing to learn from it.

[@elih9700]

And now the Germans are importing anti-semitism into their country, real lessons learned there.

[@jensgoerke3819]

The Republican MAGAs are still trying to recreate 1930s Germany. Their Führer Trump is America's explanation for "how could Germany rally behind such an evil person?"

[@christopherwebster5301]

What are you talking about? We don't deny anything. We know that the US has done wrong and terrible things in its past. We learned about them every year and do a damn good job of making sure they're never repeated. Just because you didn't pay attention in class and because we don't give reparations to people who never went through or experienced it doesn't mean we deny it, or downplay it. Our mistakes are beaten into our heads from the time we start school to ensure the tragedies of the past aren't repeated.

[@hypatian9093]

@@christopherwebster5301 Ah - so kids routinely visit plantations or places like Wounded Knee where native Americans and slaves were killed and harmed as part of their schooling?

[@woo9914]

@hypatian9093 Here's the thing. If you live close enough to a "plantation" to take a school trip to one you're likely surrounded by them. If you don't, there's no way a school can afford to send you to one(no one will drive busses full of kids 500km to see a plantation). These things also happened in very different times. The events you're talking about occurred way before radio, cars, and electricity were common in homes. The sense of preservation was minimal in those times. Which means most relevant things to see on a school trip didn't survive, they still were plantations after slavery was abolished, so when a building needed to be replaced, they were replaced. When equipment was replaced the old was thrown out. So the only option really would be to re-build these structures to show what it was like, which feels like a bad idea to me.

[@carolinetaylor5594]

Great video, Anne was lovely. I wish most of the world was taught similar to in Berlin, it might make us appreciate peace more than when you are taught that 'we won!'

[@idaearl927]

Danke This discussion was very informative.

[@israellai]

I find it interesting that you did so much learning through reading books, university style. We only had textbooks, like Anne, no matter the subject, so we could focus on the essentials. Having multiple books for an exam would make it impossible to learn by rote!

[@israellai]

But in terms of how we learnt about WWII...it's definitely more of a war against Japan than a world war to us. "We got occupied by Japan. oh and btw Nazis killed millions of Jews. What are Jews, you ask because you literally have no idea? doesn't matter, they're the guys that Nazis killed."

[@rosalindwilkes2740]

Great post! I studied both world wars for O level (in the ‘80’s) and the focus was on how the result of the first world war lead to the rise of nazism so mainly the ideology. I don’t remember too much focus on battles, other than D Day. I find the subject particularly interesting as my paternal Grandfather was German and a sanscrit professor. My Grandmother was English and left Germany with my 2 year old father just before the out break of war. She often talked about her experiences of living in Germany between 1934 and 1939.

[@magigale]

This was really interesting as growing up in UK whenever we meet a German we get “Don’t talk about the war”. Later as an adult I spent time in Berlin and loved it there. I would have never had a conversation like this. This was really interesting

[@jamietanguay4682]

Yoooo Evan the camera work on this is so great! It's like a proper documentary!!!

[@evan]

Thank you! I have very limited space in my living room for filming equipment but I managed to squeeze another camera angle in :)

[@user-xi6nk4xs4s]

I'm from the Netherlands and have had my education here as well, mostly in the 1980s as far as WWII is concerned. More like Anne's experience in Germany we learned more about what lead up to WWII and the NS gaining power in Germany and the broad aspects of the war. Individual battles or actions were never brought up besides D-Day and the bombing of the Japanese Cities. I remember there was a clear distinction being made between the German people and the ones in power and their instruments of war. In these times there was still a lasting resentment against Germany, but this mainly played out in football matches and fortunately has become less over the years. I've personally never felt that my generation and the younger generations of Germans had any responsibility for what happened in the war. The feeling of responsibility to never let it happen again in my opinion, isn't only a responsibility for the German people, but for all people. We also weren't taught that the Allies won the war specifically. The emphasis was more on the losses the entire world had suffered. A lot of time was spend on the actual liberation of the Netherlands and for a part the role the armies of specific countries played in them. Mostly the British & Canadian armies specifically. Not so much about the Polish soldiers as far as I can remember, despite the fact that they had a major role as well. I also wonder what will happen with the next generations in regards to this subject.

[@aaaa-px7ng]

Unfortunately, the second time happened quickly. The Dutch invaded Indonesia shortly after WW2.

[@samwebb585]

Guys, this was so insightful - thank you! In the UK I remember spending a lot of time learning about the impact on everyday life of the war, certainly as a Londoner we spent lots of time at the IWM and learning about the Blitz. Interestingly I remember the angle I got from it all was that Britain remembers it as a time where “we” were “at our best” - sticking up for the little guy, fighting the good fight, banding together to get it done and so on. I think that’s an angle that’s being played more and more in recent times too - the idea of British “glory resurrected” seems to have been a major factor in the Brexit vote. Of course, what’s not taught is the number of COs locked up for refusing to bear arms, or the cost of life on all sides from for example, the razing of Dresden. So that is similar I suppose to the US approach. But I guess the UK sees itself as perpetually having the moral high ground and the US is the saviour of us all - so the lean that you get from studying it just perpetuates the vision each country has of itself.

[@irismeeow]

hope you'll have anne back in the future, she's so lovely :)

[@evediby2183]

Wathcing this video made me realize just how much my history teacher in high school really taught us about WWII and hiw much I appreciate him doing that. He went beyond the data but had also focus the people, motives, and the war in general, far before the US even entered the war. We far beyond the textbook and looked at outside sources

[@Critizens]

Also from Berlin: I disagree o the A-Bomb part (I understand her point: Einstein was German so we're kind of responsible as well; like really distant responsibility). But in general: The focus in my history class was on how WW II could happen in the first place, the holocaust and the aftermath (Cold War, Berlin Wall, EEA, Reunification...). The actual war, like specific battles, wasn't a topic. Probably not to glorify the Wehrmacht. We also had a school trip to a former concentration camp.

[@Mr-pn2eh]

To add insult to injury. It's Austria's fault that nazi's were even a thing.

[@stigolumpy]

@@Mr-pn2eh Haha that is true..

[@mogreen19]

Ach watt: noch'n Berliner hier? Grüsse von nem Zehlendorfer in den Niederlanden 😀

[@stigolumpy]

@@mogreen19 Hello Berliner!

[@doyouwanttogivemelekiss3097]

1) Einstein immigrated to Switzerland for his undergrad studies - so whatever his reasons were, nazis had literally nothing to do with that. 2) Other than writing a letter to the US president, Einstein contributed 0 to the atomic bomb. 3) other than the people shown in the oppenheimer movie, who obviously moved to the US because of the nazis (Teller, Szilard, von neumann etc.), you could argue that in europe some people like Lise Meitner and Otto Hahn were doing some basic research that eventually made the bomb possible, and Heisenberg was supposed to lead the German equivalent to the Manhattan project. 4) I don't believe Heisenberg's post war explanation of "I tried to sabotage it from the inside" for one second. Large projects are hard. Even if you are a genius. Heisenberg failed, and Oppenheimer succeeded - it's as simple as that.

[@allenwilliams1306]

The USA did not decide it was “Nazi-kicking time” after Pearl Harbor. Conveniently for us Brits, Hitler declared war on the USA immediately after the Japanese attack, so the USA didn't have much choice. Roosevelt still had to be persuaded to concentrate on Germany first, rather than Japan, though.

[@keit99]

Exactly, Hitler hoped that by declaring war on the US he could influence Japan to declare war on the USSR (with which Japan had a non-attack agreement, but Japan didn't

[@BrowncoatNerd]

I kind of get the feeling he just didn’t pay attention in history class.

[@allenwilliams1306]

@@BrowncoatNerd That's unfair: he was probably taught exactly what he claimed. It was a US school, remember!

[@BrowncoatNerd]

@@allenwilliams1306 I went to a US school and learned all of this.

[@allenwilliams1306]

@@BrowncoatNerd Well done!

[@isabella-a-a-a]

I’m from the the US, Washington State. There was a very intense focus on Japanese internment camps as that was something that affected our local small community to a huge degree. We even met with some of the last internment survivors one-on-one and got to ask them questions about their experience in the camps. I am grateful for that. Our community is mostly white & we are taught about this event in a tone of shame & sorrow for what we put Japanese Americans through. We look at the “No J*ps” signs that were hung in shop windows, the houses & pets & farm land people were literally forced to abandon as they were taken away. The confusion and pain and anger they felt. We now have a whole Japanese Internment Museum here. I’ve always been curious about how much people outside of the west coast learn about it in schools.

[@isabella-a-a-a]

Side note: we learned about WWII first in middle school, and then again more thoroughly in 12th grade. In high school when we were taught about how the US took in nazi scientists after the war, the whole room was in shock. We were angry and asked lots of questions… I think it was a big moment of realization about our country for many of us. Our textbooks are so pro-America in every sense (except for slavery) that it was nice to get a reality check.

[@coburgcoburg0152]

Same

[@rae6082]

Australian here 🇦🇺 we were taught different pieces and perspectives across primary and high school. Primary school mostly focussed on the ANZACs (Australian and New Zealand Army Corps) and what they went through in WW1 fighting for the British and WW2. We were taught about key battles that affected the course of the war but more the overall narrative, politics and ideology. Part of this was exploring what it was like. As we are so far away a lot of Aussies and Kiwis make a point to visit key sites when travelling. Interestingly, northern Australia was attacked a few times by the Japanese but we didn’t learn much of this!

[@user-yp6ug9nj1b]

German person from south Germany here (no, not Bavaria though, sorry). I agree with Anne when she says it comes up many times in different years and the emphasis on the Germans and the ideology. Interesting point from you Evan, when you ask her about the "Nazis vs. Germans". I'd agree that it's often told that the Nazis did this and that, maybe to distinguish oneself from the people at the time. But then, as you said, probably the vast majority of our grandparents were in the Hitlerjugend (Hitler's youth, which is like a club for children at the time) and their parents were most likely followers of the Nazi regime. I remember that my history teacher emphasized that most Germans accepted what happened or at least didn't actively protest but that you must remember how dangerous it would have been for them to actually protest in any form. They would have probably lost their lives, like the students that formed the "white rose" in Munich, maybe you've heard of them. This does not excuse anything at all, it just puts it into perspective.

[@Eric_Hunt194]

The first I learned about the "White Rose" was when I was doing A-levels (age 16/17) and had a German exchange student stay with us. I'm from Yorkshire and the White Rose is our county symbol (see the "War of the Roses" for more), and there's a shopping mall near my home called The White Rose. My German exchange partner asked why it was called that, because to him "White Rose" instantly jumped out as an anti-Nazi thing.

[@charleshayes2528]

@user-yp6ug9nj1b While Naziism is indefensible, it is important to recall context. Germany had lost the First World War and already suffered massive inflation long before the 1929 Wall Street Crash - the same thing happened in other countries, such as Hungary. Communism was established in the USSR and various groups were fighting one another, both politically and on the streets. So people wanted stability. While German history is part of it, it isn't only Germans who look to a strong leader in times of social turmoil. There is also the "Frog in Hot Water" phenomenon. If you put a frog into very hot water it will jump out, but put it into cold water and turn the heat up very slowly and it will be cooked. If you had told the Germans in 1922 what Hitler would do, they would probably have been horrified - if they believed you. The problem was that those who saw something of the future were not believed and too many thought that Hitler could be reasoned with. At one point, we were taught that Hitler and his cohorts were monsters, but it isn't quite true. If the Nazi leadership were all monsters and if they and they alone acted, then it would be easy to wash our hands of it and say it couldn't happen again. But the vast majority of the carrying out of the actions was by ordinary men and women - doctors, nurses, judges, lawyers and civil servants as well as the military. Despite the history of the Nazis, some politicians are using the same rhetoric and divisive tactics in circumstances that are almost certainly less traumatic than post-WWI Europe, they rely on manipulating feelings and perceptions of threat and will manufacture threats in order to gain control.

[@tedioustotoro4885]

Yeah, the way we were taught about WW2 in GCSE is similar to how Anne was taught it (though we did cover the build up to the Nazis (starting in the late 1800s) too) while, in Primary school, we were taught more similar to Evan (though only the stuff with the UK). Interestingly, when we went to Berlin near the end of the unit, we didn’t actually visit any of the camps, though we did go to one of the stations that the trains to the camps left from, we also did things like the Jewish Museum though.

[@clerica5787]

I know I'm late, but I loved this! So interesting to see the differences.

[@kchara7078]

😊 I won't go into a rant about the content here, but...35+ years ago we had 2 German exchange students in high school. One was very direct and vocal and told the local rural WY population the same things Anna says here. I'm impressed with the quality and content of this interview. Danke😊

[@brynmarie9655]

As a Canadian we kind of land in the middle. Being neighbours with the US, we typically learn a lot about them, but during that time we were also still not fully independent from Britain so Canada was involved in the entirety of the war pretty much. We learned a lot about the American perspective, albeit far less focused on facts like battles and such, but the general takeaway was the devastation and not just that the Americans “won”. But that was also because it was learned in one history class in my province that covered the entire 1900’s, so we were focused on what events led to what, and after WW2 we immediately went into looking at the splitting of Germany. We did, however, learn a lot of Canadian-specific involvement in both wars and that was very much glorified. Honestly even the parts that we knew Hitler likely took inspiration from (he looked to certain Canadian battalions in WW1 and their brutality to inspire their war tactics). One interesting thing is that in my province (all provinces have different curricula), the history class in high school that covered the world wars actually was not mandatory to take…

[@keithlightminder3005]

For world war 1 we have the 20 dollar bill with the bony war memorial on one side and the family behind all that death represented on the other- a daughter of one of the three cousins. I suppose it’s a good way to both distract from leadership failures and also get the trade unionists into uniform and then coffins.

[@lucforand8527]

I don't agree that Canada lies in the middle; we also teach history from a Canadian point of view and Canada's involvement in events. We certainly do absorb a lot about the US involvement, but I don't think that is because of school but more about our exposure to American culture. I'm sure history curricula have changed since the 1970's; however, I remember taking three history courses at the time; ancient history: centred entirely on the development of european civilization to just before the renaissance; the renaissance (from about 1400 to 1800); and Canadian history (essentially 1500 to 2000). Today many school curriculum give only two courses: World History and Canadian History and in some schools they only have to take one of the two. Thus, in general much less history is taught in high school today than 40 or more years ago. The result is that most Canadians actually no very little about world or Canadian history and most of what they learn is outside the classroom.

[@klimtkahlo]

If the British king is still your king, are you really truly independent?

[@lucforand8527]

@@klimtkahlo He is the King of Canada. It just happens that he is also the King of the United Kingdom, the King of Australia, the King of New Zealand, etc. As for independence, just because he is the King of other countries, this doesn't mean that each of those countries aren't independent. Are we dependent on Australia, the UK, New Zealand for the operation of our Country. The answer is NO; just as it is NO with respect to Germany, China, USA, Chile, etc, etc.

[@denisegreene8441]

​@@klimtkahlol... what a stupid comments. Do a little research.

[@elliotstedman1591]

From my experience being taught in the UK (and within the last decade), we have a middle ground between the American and German ways of teaching it (that leans far more to the German way). We did learn about the key events (not so much the battles but the things leading up to and around them, the more socio-political aspects) and a look at the ideology and the roots of what led to the war in Germany. We definitely looked at it through a British lens and at the impacts in Britain, but also from more international perspectives and from a very analytical point of approach to the subject. And we definitely didn't have the American "we won" mentality; we treated it as a tragedy and didn't shy away from Britain's mistakes and some of the atrocities we were responsible for in the war too. But interesting, and I wonder if other British people had the same, we learnt far more about World War One than Two. This was in both History class and in English (where we looked at war poetry and pre- and post-war theatre and writing in relation to WW1). I felt there was a far greater focus on this, especially pre-GCSE. At my GCSEs we looked at International Relations post-WW2 and more of the ramifications and only went in-depth into WW2 in my A-levels. But this also depends on which exams boards people were on for content and which bits each school chose to study (as in the UK, you get about 10-15 topics across three different lists and your school picks one from each list and that's what you study for your exams)

[@libbyford6765]

I had the same experience with the approach to learning about ww2 as you in England but I would definitely say we learned very little about ww1 it was almost always about ww2 🤔

[@charleshayes2528]

@elliotstedman1591 I studied History at CSE/O Level (predecessor to GCSE) and we did the 19th century - which was actually 1815 to 1914. This went from the Battle of Waterloo to the death of Archduke Ferdinand at Sarajevo - the event which triggered WWI. The emphasis was on political change in the UK, so the Corn Laws, the Tolpuddle Martyrs and the eventual rise of unions and Britain's involvement in Empire and trade - so we touched on the Raj and the Indian attempts to overthrow the Raj - which was called "the Indian Mutiny". Much of this was quite superficial, so we learned about animal fat on rifle cartridges causing troops religious qualms, but we didn't really learn much about the underlying issues and because we stopped in 1914, we didn't learn to connect events to those in the 20th century, such as Indian independence. Looking back, I can see the curriculum was influenced by a light socialist ideology. We were not taught Marxism, but economic factors and the impact of events on ordinary people were clearly the underlying themes. This period was seen as both an economic golden age and an age of inequality and social oppression. 1914 was, implicitly, seen as the end of an era in a way that 1939 and WW2 was not. I had loved history all through primary and into secondary and unfortunately, these 2 years almost killed any enjoyment I might have had, primarily because there was so much emphasis on names and dates and on Acts of Parliament. I can now see that I did absorb a framework and can relate other events to that period, such as the abolition of slavery or the American Civil War, but it would have been so much better to have been shown how major events fed into later one and how that related to our own situation in the Cold War. I think another reason for the focus on the 19th century was a kind of semi-hidden pride - we had Peterloo, but we also abolished slavery; we had Tolpuddle Martyrs, but we developed unions and gave women the vote; we had child sweeps, but we established free schools, etc. Britain's economic and military power and cultural influence were at their height. Despite pleas to "Buy British", we just didn't have the same sense of ourselves circa 1968 and onwards. (I also think that the Holocaust and the Bomb were both too recent, too near and in the case of the latter, too looming, for people to think about. Even friends who did A level tended to deal with the Russian Revolution and only touched on WWI, let alone anything closer to our own time.)

[@DeWilsKanal]

As a German, I went to school in a smaller city. I didn't learn about WW2 until grade 9 (went to a Gymnasium from grade 5-13). But then we pretty much talked about it for all the remaining years, with a bit of post WW2 history in the final 2 years. I wouldn't want to change that time frame, because it's such a heavy topic that you shouldn't keep it too short, but they also waited until we were old enough to handle the mental challenges (mostly). That said, I also found that it strongly depends on what teacher you get, as with pretty much all classes in school. Most of my history teachers were awesome and if your history class leads to very deep discussions and empathic reflections, then that's all you could ask for.

[@themystic8634]

Loved this video, thank you Ann for sharing your perspective. This video led to two angles of reflection for me. World Wars, and Australian cultural shame World Wars: Most of my high school focus was on World War I (in only one year of my education), especially on the conditions and the events that enabled, and led to, the war, which I appreciate. My school's only World War II focus was on the Holocaust itself. [I don't know if my school just ran out of time one year, but a broader perspective is in the current curriculum about 15 years on]. Outside of specific history classes, a lot of the times it's mentioned (such as ANZAC day) focus on the people that went to join the wars, their motivations, and the effect of Australian participation on solidifying our place as a sovereign nation, just over a decade after Federation. One current of this that always stuck out to me is the fact that the call to patriotism led many to join, others the chance to see the world, and that these motivators drew many underage applicants, who lied on their application. Perhaps this is mostly because it was addressed to children, but the narrative is often about their bravery. In the last few years though, I've now been a teacher, and these same speeches at assembly leave me feeling sick and angry, no longer is it me in those stories, it is CHILDREN in my care being persuaded without being informed of the reality of that choice into a horrifying situation. Australian Cultural Shame: The story of cultural shame resonated with me, because I think we've told similar stories about the Stolen Generation. An attempted slow genocide against the First Nations people of Australia, that has destroyed languages, histories, cultures and families and left generational trauma in it's wake that exists in living memory for many of our people. If anything, I think we need to better communicate the horror of this.

[@chriskimber7179]

Canadian history is a mirror from across the Pacific. We have the same stories of shame, and were also brothers in arms. Cheers.

[@dmwalker24]

My Mother and Step-Father were both history teachers, so it is a little difficult for me to separate what I got in school, versus what I got supplementally from them. I am fairly certain that less came from the classroom. The real detailed, and in-depth information I know now is the result of finding it for myself after I was an adult. Though to be fair, quite a lot of that information really isn't appropriate for children (younger than 15 or 16 anyway).

[@goshdoggett]

American millenial here, grew up in Texas. My history classes were all very bad (as in, didnt learn much of anything). I learned most of history, specifically WWII, from English classes, from reading books like the two Evan mentioned.

[@alanblackford2962]

I enjoyed this vid very much as I wondered how ww2 history was taught in schools. I worked for a little while in Germany and I visited Cologne with a colleague, also the factory boss and an electronics engineer. We went into the Cathedral and climbed one of the towers. While looking out from the top of the tower, the engineer laughed and said that the allies flattened all the buildings around the Cathedral, but nearly always missed the Cathedral. I had to tell him that the Cathedral was a marker for the bombers to find before moving onto a target and we needed it to remain standing or they may get lost. The Germans were very close to developing the A bomb as they had successfully produced the heavy water required, luckily it was sabotaged. It's nice to notice that you have a good sense of humour as we chuckle about the Americans winning all of the battles that took place. In England they used to say "Overpaid, oversexed and over here !" about the Americans. Watch a couple of your others vids, very good content.

[@SlapAlice]

Fascinating stuff! Thanks guys :)

[@SlapAlice]

I'm from the UK and I believe the stance we were taught, about US involvement, was that they didn't bother to help out until the last minute. :D Interestingly, a lot of the high-up Nazis ended up at Nasa in the US.

[@coburgcoburg0152]

@@SlapAlicewell…. If it wasn’t for the Americans the Nazis would’ve killed everyone in Europe…

[@hananasrah]

As a brit and a Londoner we were taught extensively about the blitz and ww1 in primary school about mostly the Somme and Passchendaele (battles) and about how British society responded about how women were then given the vote not long after as a result. in secondary school we were taught about ww2 and Nazism extensively I even had a GCSE History exam on Weimar republic and Nazi Germany myself.

[@JereBowl]

Being from a poor area with a poor school and graduating during Bush Jr, we touched on the WWs, more so in middle school than HS, but never went as in depth as discussing dates, battles, or really the ideology. The teacher in HS didnt seem to care what the class did as long as we were quiet. Sadly that was most of my HS years in many different classes. I've learned more after school than we ever discussed in school. I've always felt like the education I received let me down in life, due to the area I grew up in. I found a love of technology though and decided to persue that as far as I could. I've learned more about the WWs from documentaries, books, etc. through the years than school itself.

[@leigh-annepadula719]

I'm glad I found this comment, I thought I was the only one haha

[@charleshayes2528]

@JeremyBowling-Jer I believe in local democracy and I recognise that the States are very different to the UK, but having been educated under the Welfare State and in schools in two very different areas (economically speaking) but both excellent, I find it hard to conceive of school being funded at such a local level that one school can be poorer in cash terms than another, esp in the same country (or state). I am so sorry it stifled your education. The vast majority of our teachers cared deeply for our learning (although we sometimes resented their attention to our failings and our homework.) Admittedly, we seem to be going in a negative direction in the UK, since schools are now virtually independent - with no real local education authority - and where parents are expected to fund many aspects of school life, so poorer area equals poorer school. When I was at senior school (11-18) we paid a notional sum to a class fund to help fund things like day trips and for dinners - unless the family qualified for free school dinners - but lessons and school equipment were centrally funded. Alongside the core of Maths, English, History, Geography and Science we had Music and Art, as well as Engineering, Woodwork, Needlework and Home Economics (primarily cooking) and a Drama Block. We also had dedicated gyms for both boys and girls and a swimming pool. As far as provision went we were not poorer than most other schools (I don't know much about fee paying schools at the time) even though a good number of parents were on medium/low incomes and very few owned their own homes.

[@gigteevee6118]

Really strong video with discussion and perspectives I’ve not thought about before, winning format! Glad to know Berliners are like Londoners, city first, country second!

[@Thurgosh_OG]

That's the sad thing about London, that the rest of us Brits are well aware of (and have been for a long time). It shows most strongly in politics.

[@phosoph]

We read number the stars in 4th grade at 9 years old and it was so impactful to us! I still remember it 15 yrs later

[@Drew-Dastardly]

I was taught about WW2 in UK primary school in the late 1970's. Not year 10 but maybe year 5 (9 or 10 years old). We got to visit the Imperial War Museum, which was excellent. We also got to learn about Anne Frank and it was kind of devastating but relatable humanising too. I actually think we are going to see negative effects of the coof lockdowns which to a child is no different to what happened to Anne. I never got taught about her diary entries of coming of age and pubescence, we were too young for that obviously, and in our day nobody would dare confuse young children with stuff like that for obvious reasons. Now they want to force absurd sexuality and relations on primary school kids. It is absolutely saddening to me that scumbags want to ban Anne Franks diary as "pornographic" to year 10 students (15 year old+?), clearly mature enough, in the USA Free Speech land of the free just because she records something every teenager goes through.

[@charleshayes2528]

@drewdastardly5438 In fact, Anne Frank's diary circulated for a long time without the bits about bodily functions. That is because her father felt embarrassed by them and cut them out of the early editions. To be fair, 1) he was from an older generation in the first place, 2) Anne probably didn't expect that her private thoughts would be published worldwide and 3) it is highly unlikely that the diary would have been published as it stood in the 1940s-1950s, esp. as the author was a schoolgirl. I believe it is only recently that the full, unexpurgated version, has become available. I don't believe in censorship, but children have been reading "abridged" versions of books for years - so I can't understand why the US authorities can't publish an abridged version suitable for 15 year olds and younger. I think I was around that age when I read Anne Frank's diary for the first time - and I am pretty sure it was an abriged version of the edition that was current then (1960s/70s). I fear that the "pornographic" content is just an excuse to exclude the book entirely - esp. as some in America want to avoid difficult topics like slavery or racism or the Holocaust.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

🤨

[@cleanthe3276]

@@charleshayes2528 I wish there was that kind of version of the book when I read it, it was in early 90 I was 13 y.o. maybe, in France. Sorry but those intimate moments from Anne were really awkward to read for me. I felt embarrassed knowing about the intimacy of this young girl, the wet dreams and touching herself ... arrghhh ! I was too young, it's not about being a prude or a conservative, or wanting censorship. It's about making young teenagers read something appropriate for their age. In high-school at 15 y.o. why not, but not before, I still think about this ! And those moments have nothing to do with WW2. Weirdly the rest of History about ww2 is ok to learn for young people, it can be very emotional, you can learn and feel a lot as a human being. But the intimacy of a young girl ? ..

[@Emmet_Moore]

​@@cleanthe3276 If it was relevant to Anne Frank at 13-14 surely it is relevant to 13-14 year olds now. That's precisely the age you should start to learn about that stuff, and surely that sort of introduction to sex education is exactly what we want. It's real, it's in context and it ISN'T pornographic. If they actually are too young, most of the stuff about menstruation, puberty and masturbation will go over their heads anyway, and otherwise good: none of those things are anything to be ashamed of.

[@cleanthe3276]

@@Emmet_Moore Well I TOTALLY disagree with you ! You make me think of those leftist who want to sexualize kids before it's normal to them. If some teenagers are more mature than others, do you want to force the other ones to be confronted to this intimate aspects of life ? Who are you to decide that it's good to them ?? It wasn't for me at all, I came to be aware of these things little by little by different ways, but certainly not because some adults decided for me . I have a word for this but I'm not going to write it here. End of discussion for me, I've read and heard too much already about it on the internet. It's just disgusting to me.

[@deedee-yy8vi]

Aussie here, I went to a private primary school and our history classes were much much more based in Australian specific history (first fleet, stolen generations, rabbit-proof fence) so I never actually got any insight into world history unless Australia was involved in some way. So all I remember them teaching us about WWII was our involvement in it and especially Japan's involvement on the Pacific islands. Granted I grew up on the internet and most of us already knew what WWII and the holocaust was on a basic level, so maybe they just expected us to know already? I also feel like being so far away from all the European conflict makes you feel some element of disconnect in a way, kinda like it's just an old tale and not a real world event. However there was one time (I think grade 5 or 6?) our teacher was reading us Once by Morris Gleitzman, I don't want to spoil it because I recommend reading it but it's a very childlike and person-focused telling of living in Poland in the war. I feel like it gave me a much more empathetic view of that time period and led me to do more research on the Holocaust and seek out more historical fiction.

[@Pelfri0]

I'm my hIgh school we learnt more about specifically the holocaust

[@tamikabrown6542]

I just made a comment but I thought I would reply to you as well! It’s so interesting as us being Australians how we’re all taught differently. My class watched Schindler’s list, boy in the striped pyjamas, we learnt about Nazi ideology, and the whole WW2 theatre aspect. For me personally I learnt about Australian history in year 5-6 I think first fleet was year 5 and then rabbit proof fence and the mistreatment of Indigenous Australians in year 6, as well as the goldrush and all the other standard Australian history.

[@kstricl]

Canadian who grew up pre-internet/no cable. The educational channel (one of the three stations we could get) ran the World at War series around the time I was in elementary school. Probably a good thing that most of the footage was B&W. I learned a lot about WWII that most of my classmates did not. I also knew a fellow that was a draftee in the 40's german army; he did not believe in what the german leadership was trying to sell. He related the story of the last time he saw his brother who was also drafted, just before the brother was sent to Russia. It was tough to hear how they both knew that was a death sentence. The fellow I knew was sent to the western front; I got the impression he surrendered as soon as he could.

[@cmwattam]

Really interesting to hear another perspective on WWII education. In Canada, education is provincial, so there's lots of variation on what we learn depending on where you live. Where I grew up, I had a really similar experience with feeling shame during history class because of how often we discussed residential schools and the abuse against First Nations peoples. Now, that I'm an adult, I definitely wouldn't have wanted to discuss it any less, but it was definitely similar to what Evan talks about around 7:50 here. Book lists obviously vary depending on province/area/school/year, but we definitely read The Diary of Anne Frank, and a lot of those "My History" books set in WWII - I think that started in grade 5 (age 11ish) and in highschool (ages 14/15ish to 18) we did Night, The Book Thief, and movies like Schindler's List and The Pianist. There were lots of others because we studied it almost every year, but those ones stick out for sure. I also remember learning a lot about how significant it was when Canada joined the war because we were so new to our independence from Britain then. Major focus on the "storm troopers" in Italy too because there is a ton of cultural pride around how well we did as an army.

[@chriskimber7179]

Provincial standards certainly varied! I lived in Quebec City until grade 5. I think I was the only one who knew there had been a war, mostly because my mother was a german refugee and family lore was all about escaping the soviets and the boat trip in '51. When we moved to Ottawa there was a great connection to the Netherlands from the second war.

[@ONLYJOKING101]

I'm from North Shropshire and yes I do like Greggs.

[@Shako_Lamb]

I'm an American and I feel like our flag code was written by somebody with a flagpole all the way up their ass A friend of mine who did Scouts told me a particularly awful flag mishandling and burning story, and my jaw must have been on the floor the entire time As for the Pledge of Allegiance and the Anthem at sports games etc., I've been one of the people playing the Anthem for 13 years now, as a member of marching bands and sports pep bands. And while on one hand I respect the tradition as someone who actively participates in it, there's always been that element of "why" to me. I think the reason we still do it is mostly because we're afraid of seeming unpatriotic and un-American if we stop, more than we actually derive any sense of patriotism from it. Nobody hears the Anthem at a football game and thinks "I am 15% more American now!!!" And the daily Pledge at school starts out as meaningless nonsense to us as kids, then ends up as a thoughtless recitation to us as teenagers (who is Richard Stands??) which completely and utterly destroys the meaningfulness of it.

[@Killswitch1411]

Why do you need to ask why we need patriotism? Its good in a sense of foundation of a collective role we all have being Americans, anyone who moves to USA becomes a citizen will be looked at as a American.. You cant say that about other countries.. You can never be a German you can never be Japanese if you are not either one of those. Patriotism can be used as a negative thing when the government uses it to fuel more war and hate towards another county. But for USA Patriotism is a foundation of why we are who we are and why most people are proud of being American, doesn't mean we support the Government with out lots of criticism, its not blind loyalty, we can question our government. But as kids we don't understand it, but as you get older you do start to understand it, and why its important we try to get everyone have the same values and respect for your fellow Americans and those that came before us and died for this country for the life we do live.

[@Shako_Lamb]

@@Killswitch1411 You're not entirely wrong about anything that you said, but you missed my point. I didn't "ask why we need patriotism." Of course we need patriotism, as you've said. I'm happy to be American, but saying the Pledge of Allegiance every day at school didn't make me patriotic. Hearing the National Anthem at every sports game didn't make me patriotic. And I don't believe those things have as much effect on people's feelings toward their country as people think they do, like you for example. The idea of stopping those traditions sounds horrible. If someone proposed throwing out the Pledge of Allegiance, it would be a national scandal. But if it ACTUALLY happened, if we somehow magically forgot the Pledge of Allegiance overnight and never said it again, I don't believe anyone would be less patriotic.

[@Killswitch1411]

@@Shako_Lamb Patriotism is at a low in many places around the USA.. More so in democrat run states where the school purposely try to replace Patriotism with individualism and other ideologies I'd soon not go into, not saying conservatives have all the answers because I don't think religion belongs in the public school, I see why they think it should because it gives in their minds a moral foundation, except every religion is a little different so you really cant have one unless you include them all. That's why Patriotism can be a good alternative as it is way more inclusive than Religion and various other ideologies or life style choices. But hearing those songs can instill a sense of pride, maybe not for everyone, but if it didn't we wouldn't do it as often as we do and the older we get the more proud we become because we have lived long enough to appreciate it but also know at the same time there is going to be some rough spots when it comes to pride in your country. Kids don't have any life experience so when we were young we have no idea why we did those things. So its possible they would have less of a connection if we didn't do those things. I don't wanna be one of those countries like Germany that are embarrassed to be who they're because people in our past did some awful things.. Germans should be proud of their country and should have a sense of they're in it together and have a sense of camaraderie. Kind of feel sorry for them having to be so down on themselves about their past.

[@Shako_Lamb]

@@Killswitch1411 Here's another way of expressing my point: Being patriotic is about being proud of the way your country has shaped you as a person and the opportunities that it gives you. You don't need a teacher to force you to say a pledge at school every morning in order to instill those values. Real patriotism is something you feel, not something you say. (and by extension of that, I simply don't believe that what you're saying about schools in Democrat-run states has any real basis beyond the machinations of conservative pundits.) And I know you're coming at this from a completely different perspective than someone from Germany, but I would like you to give a little more consideration to what the history of Germany means to the people of Germany today and the unique position it gives them in the world. Acknowledging that your country was responsible for one of the most horrific acts in the history of mankind is not sexy. But Germans believe that they have a responsibility to make sure nothing like the Holocaust ever happens again. Maybe that isn't patriotism, but I see that as just as honorable and admirable as patriotism. Or maybe it IS patriotism - in the sense that the people of Germany can be thankful for their country being able to instill them with such important life lessons. (and for what it's worth, Germany is still a highly successful country with, in some ways, a higher standard of living than America.)

[@Killswitch1411]

@@Shako_Lamb You really cant compare the countries when USA has over 300 million people in it compared to Germany 83 million.. Of course there will be some discrepancies in the standard of living and its more of a humongous country. The whole machinations of conservative pundits debate.. Its not really up to debate when its pretty clear the youth have way way less patriotic views. Hell sometimes people seeing the flag get them into problems, we had people stealing American flags because some hate USA in my town and they openly say it and act on it.. Social media had a effect on it as well.. TikTok dumbing down the youth and its become a much more narcissistic society. They have taken the whole guilt thing to another level.. I can respect how they do things in their country.. But id never wanna live in a place that makes laws that take freedoms away and having the freedom of speech and freedom of expression.. I may not agree with what some people do with their freedom of speech or expression.. As long its not being done in a harassing way or being acted on its better to just let these people fade away and naturally be shunned. jailing people because of a swastika is a bit ridiculous, I get its a sensitive thing, but it feels like they give it more power by trying to hide it. I'd soon know who these people are.

[@davidanderson1793]

i visited dachau as a 13 year old, 50 years ago. it profoundly changed my life. it taught me to be compassionate, giving and really the values i hold dear to this day.

[@imaginecomplexity7815]

His accents are all such a delightful amalgamation of his experiences.

[@ffotograffydd]

Germany was working on an atomic bomb, that was the reason the USA set up the Manhattan Project, or at least that’s what they told people like Einstein and Oppenheimer. That’s why many of the scientists were so appalled when the USA used it on Japan.

[@hillbillly6963]

Thank you for the video; in this comment, I'm only referring to the first five minutes. No, we are not taught to feel shame, nor is shame omnipresent in German society, nor is any shame "instilled in all of us" (as Anne put it). We are educated about the Nazi era, and we derive a strong sense of remembrance and responsibility from it. However, I'm a bit shocked by how casually Anne, who seems like a moderate person to me, comments on this in a way that extreme right-wingers in this country would applaud her for, as the phantasm of a supposed "Schuld-Kult" ("guilt cult") serves as one of their foundational premises for historical revisionism. We are taught to understand the past, to remember and to take responsibility. We are NOT taught to feel shame or guilt.

[@winterlinde5395]

I thought that, too. Maybe that’s her Christian (was it catholic?) schooling.

[@Ashorisk]

@@winterlinde5395 thats a really good argument. i would guess that the guilt/shame @hillbilly6963 talks about is a different shame/guilt she means, simply because this word is used differently with in christian a worldview than with a secular one.

[@michaelburggraf2822]

​@@winterlinde5395growing up in the mainly catholic area of Upper Swabia I can't remember being taught to feel ashamed. That would have been considered unhelpful about 40 years ago. The emphasis was on building a sense of awareness and responsibility for the future. Since there were a couple of institutions in this area which were participating quite early in the euthanasation program "Aktion T4" some catholics were actually proud about having organised one of the few really effective acts of resistance against the Nazi rule. As a consequence the Nazis were placing all extermination camps of the Holocaust east of Germany in order to avoid such unrest to happen a second time.

[@sallykins3800]

She was interesting to listen to Evan, enjoyed this thanks , get her on again

[@Zadster]

If you want to see the sort of thing 1980s British schoolkids learned about WWII every week at school we watched a series called How We Used To Live, some of which is on KZbin. It is based around the lives of normal families, and we absolutely loved it. It seemed far more real to us than learning from books.

[@theacecase7939]

I’m German, my parents were both born in Germany and I lived there for 9 years growing up. (I moved to Australia when I was 9, I’m 18 now) I was too young to really be taught about world war 2, in a school setting, while living in Germany, but I definitely still relate to the ‘shame’ aspect. One story that really highlights this is from when I was in year 6. (11/12 years old) Where a classmate, I believe when telling me to shut up, called me “Hitler girl”. At first I was shocked, then I started crying. I felt absolutely horrible in that moment, not just because that’s a horrible thing to say, but also because this was around the time where I first started to properly learn about ww2. I had just started to learn about the atrocities that happened, and then I was compared to Hitler: the face of most, if not all, of said atrocities. I’m trans (non-binary) and very openly queer, and I have been called many, *many* slurs relating to my gender and sexual identities. But even so, to this day, the worst thing that I have ever been called is “Hitler girl”. Edit: spelling error :/

[@Matty0311MMS]

In Germany, we wouldn't have the german flag on a milk carton, but we do have milk cartons with the flag of the federal states on it. It's not because of local patriotism, but because it signals, that the milk is sourced regionally, and therfore dodn't have to travel that far, so it's environmentally friendlier, than other milk. ( it could also be a bit more expensive.)

[@tzmtzt]

I grew up in a rural area close to the Nürburg Ring. The way we were taught about the time of world war 2 was not as in depth as Anne and Evan described theirs. We had 3 occasions where world war 2 came up once in 6th grade, once in 10th and of course in Abitur > 12th grade. Our history class was always more about (european focused) epochs (old egypt and the bronze age; greek expansion (alexander); the romans; the middle ages; ...). I find it fascinating that it differs so much from Annes recollection. Of course we kids always knew that it was a really bad time and our ancestors did indescribable things, but for me that was not because of school. Our parents were pretty openly discussing it with us. Our family got impacted a lot because of world war 2, my grandparents were refugees from Danzig, that had to relocate after the war. On a big school trip to Prague we visited the jewish quarter and KZ Theresienstadt and that was a very lasting and humbling experience

[@tomtorres212]

Great video and it´s so cute that Anne sounds like Lady Mary Crawley from Downton Abbey ;)

[@kaleeyed]

Really interesting conversation guys, thanks! I've recently been reading Why The Germans do it Better by John Kampfner, which touches on a lot of the topics you discussed and might be good for people who want more background to this. But I think maybe he paints Germany a bit too rosy. But then he is comparing it to the UK! Also just gotta say Evan, until the late 80s, the Union Jack was seen as very much a symbol of far right sympathies, and seeing someone wearing them gave off scary vibes for a lot of people in the same way you mention the St George's Cross now gives off. Still does for a lot of us, I mean so much bad shit has been perpetrated under that flag! But weirdly the Union Jack seemed to get a rehabilitation in the 90s under Tony Blair, with Cool Britannia, all those popstars started wearing them. Before the 90s, the only person you'd see who had a Union Jack was the odd crazy retired major or brigadier who would run one up a flagpole, but now suddenly they're everywhere, on tote bags, cushions, even on bloody Mini cars! Personally, I am not a fan and understand totally what Anne means when she says seeing flags gives her an uncomfortable feeling. Wrapping yourself in the flag is usually what happens when your shitty government has removed everything else about your country that you could possibly be proud of. This Tory government has been on a mad flag shagging patriotism trip for the last 10+ years, and we're all just along for the ride. But hopefully we can change that next year. Just this week I found out some UK police and border force have started wearing these strange black union jack patches which are apparently a pro-cop "Thin Blue Line" symbol, I've seen cops wearing them but assumed they were now part of the uniform! 😬

[@MsPeabody1231]

Those police badges are linked to the far right so police officers have been ordered not to wear them.

[@frankshailes3205]

Sod the algorithm, I really like this interview style. You do it well.

[@newfoundland3238]

Excellent lesson great perspective!

[@tcroft2165]

More Anne that was fun!

[@Meg-ts3kx]

Israeli here, we learn a combination of the 2 approaches- the chronology of warfare and dates as well as the ideology, the moral dilemmas etc. in 11th grade many students travel to Poland to see the death camps. we have a national memorial day. obviously we hear first hand testimony as many survivors live here, they are getting fewer obviously so also project to document their stories. teachers sometimes hold experiments in class to show you how easy it is to be dragged into doing things you didn't imagine supporting these were humans that supported this, that gradually found justification why it's ok. regarding the heroes of the war - it is focused on US, Russia and the UK, Churchill is a national hero here. interestingly enough we're barely taught of other fronts, besides Pearl harbor and the use of atomic bombs . I only learned there was a whole simultaneous war between China and Japan and of the African front as an adult. so interesting to hear how the same history is told based on who's telling it. also, we're the masters of holocaust jokes, and our dumb symbol to draw on slides is dicks, way funnier than swastikas c'mon guys.

[@desidesigning]

Oppenheimer turning in his grave at 256 R per second.

[@katrinpuscher120]

i am from southern germany and i can very much relate to the way anne was taught in school...but for our region it is required for every student to visit a concentration camp once...it was the single most horrifying school trip we ever had but i will always remember it and i think after that trip we all had deeply understood the horrors that happened also i remember vividly watching movie material of concentration camps...either propaganda or films made after the war had ended and seeing the people suffering in real life and giving them a face had a really big impact on how we spoke about the victims of the world war

[@pipwilson7435]

My school in the UK mostly taught us about life on the home front, the blitz, and the Holocaust. We spent some time learning about life as an evacuee, to make it relevant to us as children. We didn't learnt much about specific battles, which, interesting, is different to how we were taught about WW1 where we learned about battles as well as life in the trenches.

[@mytube001]

Growing up in Northern Europe, people in general "knew" that the US had 52 states. I think the confusion comes from two states (Alaska and Hawaii) having been added fairly recently, within the lifetime of most adults when I was a child, and then combined with the resulting number of 50 states. So they got added twice, sort of, in people's minds, and so people thought that there were 52 states. I can easily name all 50 states. But not all bundesländer in Germany - I could recall six out of sixteen when I checked now.

[@0x2A_]

The UK is split up into 92 counties across the 4 countries, I'm not going to pretend to even know a quarter of the 48 just in England 😂

[@littlefishy6316]

America now trying to create "America" all over world with disastrous consequences, the number of states is irrelevant given how much money America has and is spending overseas to buy governments and power

[@littlefishy6316]

@@0x2A_ had a (large) UK map on the wall where I used to work, very colourful, showed all the counties and major towns/cities. Missed that map when we moved out of that building.

[@lordluxembourg8777]

Kinda random but I knew a guy who was adamant that the US had 52 states as well.

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

I thought it was 54. Still too many.

[@THE_REAL_POLITIK]

As an American, I definitely had a similar experience to Evan though since I grew up on the West Coast my education heavily focused on the Pacific theatre. One question I would have for Anne is, how is Otto Von Bismarck and his wars of unification viewed in Germany today?

[@starryk79]

well this is a bit more ambivalent. Bismarck had a big part in the founding of the first German national state and while he fought the socialists and social democrats he also appeased the workers with the first universal health insurance, sick fund and retirement fund. In my history class we learned a lot about his ways to make alliances to isolate France and how the Kaiser Wilhelm II ousted him eventually and ruined this alliance system in a few years. So we see him as more of a good guy and Willhelm II as the bad one. But we also learn that he was no friend of the democratic system, but also that he kept Germany out of the race for colonies and that he wanted to keep the peace by isolating our then foe France as he called Germany 'saturated'. But is is also seen critical that he formed that first German nation state by a war against France.

[@AnneLovesYou7]

In my experience, we learned about that only very briefly. I feel like we spent 40% of our history lessons on the 20th century and another 40% on the Roman and Greek Empires (I had to take Latin and Ancient Greek throughout all of high school, too...). So the remaining 20% kind of had to cover the rest of history haha. I feel like we did the 19th century within a month in class :D We were taught all that without particularly strong emotions or judgement attached to it, it was presented as just "plain history", that is, the way it happened and a sort of string of causal events that led to one another.

[@ethelmini]

The carrot thing was more the other way round. It was to encourage kids to eat more for nutrition during rationing. We had airborne radar from essentially inventing the microwave oven (cavity magnetron). Another thing they tried was "carrot on a stick" as substitute lollipops 🍭