"How Do I Deal With a Girlfriend With a Promiscuous Past" ?

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[@narcismebelgie]

First of all, before people point their finger to the other person, they should analyze themselves. This person doesn’t know what real love is. When you engage after 1 week and then cuts off the relationship, he should start working on himself first before getting into a LTR.

[@1Maddd2mackxxx]

One thing I can tell what not to do DON'T GET IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH HER Because it's like when you're not with her & having a female dog and letting it out at night SHE'LL F*** EVERYTHING IN SIGHT LMMMMAOFF 😜😂😂😜😆

[@michaelwhitman1247]

Would love to connect for a phone call

[@Johnboy6346]

A woman with a promiscuous past will bring nothing but drama and misery to your life... You will never be able to trust her.

[@maijensen3317]

Yes and it is the same thing with promiscuous men. He can't expect to get with a virgin when he's a train wrag himself.

[@mrs.camillewarrenempress3115]

As a woman just like an ex friend I known

[@jdek88]

You don’t. Leave her

[@reaper6764]

Simple and effective

[@thebrocodermusic]

100%

[@DJ_Mooseknucks]

Don't ever commit seriously to her and always wear a rubber

[@bobbulgi880]

A new doll has a zero notch count

[@brainiac.computer]

Exactly

[@1Grandhustler]

"She wants Spider-Man, but she walks past Peter Parker every day." ~ Ethan

[@FEB-mz6zr]

Damn that's a great analogy.

[@bendakstarkiller1270]

I salute you sir. Fantastic allegory!

[@useruser_notinuse]

Do you mean she ignores Peter Parker?

[@brandonjackson3641]

@@useruser_notinuse same thing

[@mig7290]

And she fantasises about the green goblin when she's in bed with Spiderman.

[@Finnerski]

He's like a tatted out chick, lots of trauma and drama on his side. Crazy attracts crazy.

[@michaelwhitman1247]

She didn't get raped, she had a train ran on her

[@malone4735]

Men are Success Objects And Women Are Beauty Objects. Men want a Woman Without A promiscuous Past While Women Want a Man With A Financial Future

[@pete531]

pure fax

[@erikbartlett2147]

But, he already knew she was promiscuous when he started dating her. He just likes slutty f*male's as long as they're attractive.

[@cruiser6260]

Feather in your cap for digesting that, but this guy was happy with her past, and she wanted a more men when she had the guy with the finances.

[@Chris-0113]

Trick question- you don't deal with it. You leave.

[@someoneelse9059]

250 comments and yours is the only sane one.

[@Chris-0113]

@someone else lol I mean, is there really anything else to do? Not from our perspectives. 👍

[@shaneashby5890]

This guy is the epitome of “Complicate your life, and then justify why!”. The women aren’t the problem, he is the problem. This guy is one of those guys that can’t be helped.

[@oldschooldude7729]

@@shaneashby5890 Yep. Fuck these guys. Simps ruin their own lives.

[@AfriqueNY]

My mom told me as a young man " women will run game on you and you won't even see it".

[@tweakypoppy]

When we don't know what to look for, we don't see it.

[@dantedee4682]

Run game very fast and smooth 😂

[@1Grandhustler]

“She’s not yours, it’s just your turn”

[@truthteller3024]

I bet she's been under other guys during his turn too

[@blacklyfe6881]

Bullshit! And outdated

[@hanooi7450]

Street guy with a street girl. What's the problem? That's all this guy can get.

[@Heritagepostfarms]

Mentally healthy women dont sleep around. Leave her.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

He's not mentally healthy either

[@susanhaines7358]

Thank you.

[@truthteller3024]

And mentally healthy men don't date promiscuous women

[@100mphFastball]

A promiscuous woman is like a double black diamond run at a ski resort: you should already know what you’re doing before you get on it.

[@Benucci_music]

Double black says it all

[@professormoriarty6875]

Dude, she's using you. She sees you as the beta provider. Dump her.

[@jolteon43]

It's crazy to me how some of the callers are intelligent enough to start their own companies but then lack the proper knowledge to handle such simple situations. The problem is not that the girl is/was promiscuous. The problem is that YOU brought a promiscuous girl into your life or that you didn't vet her properly at least. If the guy had done some of those mistakes (cohabitation) on some other countries, you could be viewed as a couple and lose half of your stuff for nothing. You can't save her. Matter of fact, she doesn't want to be saved. Final answer: You don't handle her, just like you don't put toothpaste back in the tube.

[@pete531]

this should not be a surprise. some of the richest men get taken to the cleaners or fall for cough cough thing yet they made it big

[@joshuaheintz8819]

Gents. It’s cultural conditioning. It isn’t because they are stupid. It’s because they have been told how to treat women and women have been taught how to manipulate men. This has happened for centuries

[@MrWiseGuy8131]

That's because most are lying. Look at the body language and expressions, compared to what comes out of their mouth.

[@murraylindsay6880]

Lmao you don’t put toothpaste back in the tube Lmao 🤣!!!

[@Majin33]

the answer is, you don't deal with women with a promiscuous past. kick her to the curb and get rid of the $lut. its that simple.

[@bakerslounge]

As someone who's dealt with substance abuse.... This dude has all the signs of somebody literally "addicted." There is no rationale or reason an addict can give you. All you know is as soon as they walk out of the room you instantly get the feeling they're going to relapse and end up in the same dumb situation. I'm sorry to say this, they are a waste of time. They have to fuck themselves up bad enough that they change. All you can do is hope they figure it out before it's too late. I'm amazed he doesn't have kids with some chick yet.

[@aidangutierrez5736]

Your saying he’s addicted to this gal he’s got?

[@deksper]

@@aidangutierrez5736 He's addicted to self-deception ... in every way

[@truthteller3024]

He didn't mention if he already has kids

[@towardsthelight220]

She had PTSD and needed a place to live as well as a daddy.

[@angecynthia347]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@alex-p]

PTSD for sure... Post Traumatic S!*t Disorder

[@jourdanshepard31]

Sounds like my Ex: PTSD, Traumatic childhood but had 3 kids by 2 dudes and refused to be accountable for her shit behavior.

[@towardsthelight220]

@@jourdanshepard31 my step son is going through this as well, but he cheated with a cheater.

[@jourdanshepard31]

@@towardsthelight220 I’ve been there. Be safe out here king

[@mikea1534]

I was addicted to a bpd girl few yrs ago, the addiction sucks , hard to let go and when she does drop you it’s literally withdrawal symptoms for months

[@oWMatt]

That's what I'm dealing with at the moment. I feel like an addict going thru withdrawal.

[@mikea1534]

@@oWMatt it took me months to get better, then I found the RP now I’m all kinds of fked up

[@oWMatt]

@@mikea1534 what do you mean by all kinds of fkd up?

[@mikea1534]

@@oWMatt this RP is new to me , I have always been a blue pilled guy, I never dated much so I’m unfamiliar with how women can operate, once I found the rp I learned so much and I understand more, now I’m just disappointed and discussed with dating currently

[@oWMatt]

@@mikea1534 You just need to work on yourself and the rest will follow. It won't be easy. I don't think RP is the best thing out there today. Maybe you should watch a video on YT: Sam Vaknin-Redpill nonsense ;)

[@1Grandhustler]

Women are like roller coaster. The wait is long, the ride is short, and there's a line of men behind you waiting their turn. So just enjoy the ride and move on." ~TFM

[@susanhaines7358]

Low class attitude. You also have the choice to have standards and say no

[@patmagic3301]

I’ve figured out over the years looking back that a girl I would have married was unnaturally promiscuous. We were together from literally 15-22. Looking back at 50, I remember she already had a body count of 2 at 15. I moved away after the break up, college, career, retirement but still remained about two degrees of separation from her. All I heard in passing was stories of addiction, cheating and plastic surgery. Last I heard she’s divorced and financially wrecked herself and the CHAD. Could have been me 🤷‍♂️

[@davidjohnson787]

Seems like a good dude! Thant being said, if he’s use to an environment of chaos from growing up in it, he will gravitate to crazy because it’s like mothered milk. Also, if he’s an empathetic personality, he WILL be addicted to narcissistic people and good women will never fit the bill. GodSpeed my friend. The work begins with you.

[@narcismebelgie]

I am also from Belgium. He can consult me. Narcisme België.

[@leonelorozco2514]

Great words David. I salute you.

[@TheGTALover]

He first needs to know that in English “good night” is used as a farewell, and not a greeting as in other languages.

[@chrisjacobs4069]

Me to a T. Been in chaos/ unstable environments/ relationships/ friendships/ biz partners all my life. Trying to figure out how to be okay with normal but I just can’t relate. It’s sucks but sometimes it feels good to know someone understands what you’ve been through.

[@PermanentHigh]

First mistake was taking a "travel girl" seriously. Any chick who's willing to uproot from her home country to go live alone elsewhere especially through hostels is a NOT a good quality woman.

[@MonteroOnBoxing]

Man I SO used to be this guy. I think it's a phase that all men go thru. But for him to still be there in his late 30's... damn. This dude needs to grow up.

[@Thiiink]

problem most men are molded to be like this.

[@Meyouletsgo]

Most men are simps ! My guy left me for 😮a promiscuous girl too 😮

[@louiscastillojlc]

He's codependent, nothing to be ashamed of. Must men are. He needs to deal with that before getting back in a relationship. Best luck mate.

[@stevelynch5843]

He sounds like a "NICE GUY" like I was in my past trying to save a HO, can't do it brother they are damaged beyond repair and they will break you till you can't be fixed either

[@abk1424]

Bloke goes crazy for a beautiful girl. That’s the real problem here.

[@kevinjohnson8220]

It's a matter of status and exhibits preselection. The problem was keeping her in line. There are things he's not saying here but a guess is that she was unfaithful to him at least once and that was towards the end of the relationship.

[@alex-p]

@@kevinjohnson8220 Yeah, dude was all over the place blabbing nonsense like a female... I avoid those guys

[@joshuaheintz8819]

If you need some content… let’s chat. I married at 32 and moved to hawaii…. Where she was from. That is a different world and everything you speak of, I have lived. One son, dated a multi millionaire, Surgeons, only fans girls, single moms and it all. What you share is probably the best advice for young men out there and you are not bashing women. You are teaching young warriors how to manage life. Mad respect brother

[@JPJ432]

Well said.

[@MrPolicekarim]

You dated a millionaire? Cool!

[@l-train7876]

He’s attracted to the drama.

[@catsnchords]

He sounds like he's attracted to the danger of dating women like his ex. He's like the male version of a girl who chases only bad boys.

[@Furio666]

“Fix yourself first” I really needed to hear that.

[@theoneandonly3499]

Remember, from the streets did she emerge to the streets she shall return. - Winnie the Pooh

[@interesting2491]

Is that chapter 3 of the cheek slaying gospel?

[@theoneandonly3499]

@@interesting2491 You bet your ass. Winnie The Pooh also once wrote the best seller "How to enter the fishhole in and out without paying". Sold millions but that was before Winnie The Pooh turned to MGTOW :D

[@mezzuna]

I've been backpacking around hostels in Australia, Europe and South East Asia when I was in my 20's. I seen women ride all round them in dorms, regret the countless trains. Then wake up and come to the realization that they were assaulted. These women are nothing but trouble

[@gabrielman368]

Respectful, straightforward and no-BS responses from Rich. Good therapy session.

[@AJSwift_]

The relationship was over before it started. Just get the p-sleeve and keep it moving. Stop investing your time and emotion into this woman. Get out of the matrix man. 😆

[@cfdesignsonline]

The alligator analogy 🐊🐊😂😂 // Yea, He.is.the.chaos. He keeps attracting the crazies because he does not value himself. He wants to be a nice guy, people pleaser etc so he let's people get away with things that they shouldn't. Probably can't even see the sheer number of ways people are violating him. - Generally speaking, I'd bet he doesn't think people (women in particular) need to work for, or earn his attention. - If he wants to improve, he'll first need to get sick of being in pain. Then he'll stop letting women play around in the emotional areas of his life and create stronger boundaries.

[@MatthewStJames-pd3xy]

My son's mother goes to a lgtbq body positive swing club every saturday while I have the kid! I always had a bad feeling about her. She had a promiscuous past that I chose to ignore for many years. After we broke up she went right back to her old lifestyle. Some people don't need alcohol or drugs to hit rock bottom!

[@mattm.5436]

Gee it’s amazing you always had a bad feeling about her but yet you have a kid with this woman. Unbelievable. Yeah it sounds a little condescending on my part but I’m sick and tired of guys -saps like yourself who fall for these women and have kids with them. Its incredible.

[@MatthewStJames-pd3xy]

Well you're right. I got duped and it was my fault for thinking people can change. Never claimed otherwise. But thanks for chiming in.

[@darkside6101]

Hey man, I fell for something similar. Met my son’s mother while I was in the military and she was in as well. Very flirtatious and that led to us breaking up the first time and I didn’t learn my lesson from that. Long story short we reconnected a year later then 8 months later I got “trapped” into having my son by her. Traumatized me a bit because I didn’t have sex with her during the whole pregnancy and even stuck around until my son was 4 but recently found out she’s into witchcraft/voodoo whatever you want to call it and is a super whore. Talks to plenty married men, and regular men on top of neglecting my son’s development since he has autism and you have to put the work in as a parent to get him up to standard. She’s also into sex clubs in Tampa. I found all this out from the tablet she gives my son to play on because the dumass had her Apple ID linked to it. All I have to say from this situation is you live and learn and I’ll definitely not ignore the flags next time around!

[@tonymarinelli7304]

As a young man(Im 54 now)it used to bother me when a woman slept with a lot of guys in their past and they’d get the boot. Friends would say oh what’s the big deal that was in her past blah blah but in hindsight I was onto something

[@ballenkerr7843]

I have a strong hunch that Rich indeed had the conversation he mentioned earlier about “what did I tell you the last time we spoke” and it went in one ear and out the other. I’m guessing it’ll happen again here.

[@cruiser6260]

She's left. Guy is an international poon hound, Spain, argentina, Colombia and I think Cooper is correct one of these chicks who hook up on day 1 is going to fuck him over good

[@Robear513]

Seems like a good dude. Probably hilarious to talk with

[@terrencewilliams2939]

Love how Rich try to extract the truth out of the story. Keep up the great work, Rich!

[@vasiliskoutsokostas]

You got so much patience man…. This guy deserves everything that’s happening

[@pauln7029]

I'll be honest. The more that I hear this person talk. The more I realize that he's broken. So broken that he doesn't realize that he is avoiding something. He uses both work and girls to fix it, but it won't. One word of advice: stop this "spinning plates" BS thing. What a sad life.

[@humansvd3269]

I was literally looking this specific topic up. Thamk you for posting it. I refuse to date or waste time with a woman with a major promiscuous past.

[@Meyouletsgo]

You know as a Muslim Arab 🎉 ❤ I’m proud that we don’t fit in that ‘crazy shitty promiscuous girl’ moving in with a bf or finessing a guy etc ! God Bless Us ! Keep your legs closed ! ❤ locked 🔒

[@PerspectiveDrill]

lol yol are lucky

[@st0a]

Based

[@aliakseilapitski899]

You don't deal with women like that period end of story. There is no silver bullet to make a wife out of 304. All of her 304 habits, preferences, etc are there to stay forever, so why would you invite such chaos into your life ? Once you know that's who she is the only thing to do is to show her way back to the streets.

[@Hechangethnot]

When you're a Clark kent and she's always looking for superman there's nothing much you can do. But with the little self-respect and dignity left of you, you can redeem yourself by improving your life wholistically.

[@kingrobthegreat7446]

if she offered him crack rock he would tk it for the hell of it

[@Thiiink]

they def had done coke together lol

[@TechnoVikingAviation]

He looks like the farcry dude 😂😂

[@skillustrates]

The token reference to the dynamic of ‘crazy women = great sex’ will always get a chuckle out of me.

[@joshuaheintz8819]

Rich!!! You are the man! The crock analogy is spot on! I have read your book at least a dozen times and maybe 10 have been because I was sharing it with other brother! It’s perfect for a road-trip. Mad respect to how you show up. I have been there and done that like you and have learned by 40 what the fuck What to focus on. Keep up the good work and proud of you for standing tall as you do!

[@RedPillShaman]

The commercial before this video was where to seek help for a poly relationship. That was so ironic and hilarious.

[@profound369]

yeah it is

[@theYguy300]

So there’s rare exceptions. I have read (taking it at face value) stories of how women stopped being H03s. Almost always it takes time of them being single and not riding the carousel to reroute their brains. From a minimum of 6mo to usually 2 or more years. During that time, they develop self control. The only con that I have seen is you get the timid boring version of her and she makes you wait in all of these stories which is usually what kills relationships and marriages and they also lie. It’s best if you find a girl with a very low notch count and consistent with her past behaviors. If she does happen to lie to you and there’s kids involved find out if she took her time and focused on not being a h03. If she did, tread carefully.. if she didn’t, plan your exit strategy

[@sniffableandirresistble]

Long story longer... lol 🤣

[@jessoftherocks]

Don't deal with her at all...leave her. Save yourself. She's bi polar probably borderline. Get out and safe your sanity. She needs to work on herself.

[@thomasmachado7198]

And Rick should have added: “And don’t get anyone pregnant!”

[@globalnomad1221]

He like crazy 😆

[@richardremick1639]

By running away quickly and never look back

[@deemad2180]

Yeah the common thread is the struggle with letting go. I get it, they had good qualities but you can never take them seriously. Just have fun and thats it.

[@slyglack]

Ok I see, he failed every shit test.

[@samsmusichub]

Because he's not looking for kids or a long term relationship, he's not search for wife material women. I bet if a girl is firm that she wants to wait until marriage then he's gonna pass on her, thus leaving himself only the hookup type women.

[@LariviereChannel]

Find a new girlfriend.

[@texan903]

He and the girl are just alike. To save another woman his misery and another man her misery, they should marry and work things out.

[@j.borchard2208]

This is what happens when a Man is thinking with his “little Head” instead of his “Big Head!” I understand this because I once was between 15-34 Years of age at one time!

[@angecynthia347]

Only the little head did the thinking??

[@sinfulyetsaved]

Speaking from experience.. people can change.. that being said they have to be willing to change.. and willing to get the help to change. Change doesn’t happen automatically. My wife has a past , as her childhood was horrible she did a lot of horrible things as a young adult, but she got help. She is a completely different woman now in her 30s as she was in her 20s. The fact that she had many partners as did I, doesn’t bother me because 1. I don’t have a self esteem or insecurity issues I know I’m the best lover she ever had and ever will have. two, if I judged her based on her past, I would have missed out on the wonderful woman she is today, she cares for the home, make’s wonderful dishes , we literally have the best conversations on a daily, amazing sex life, this woman rubs my back, manicures my feet, this is what you get when you quit the boy mentality and grow up and become a man. She doesn’t have to work although she has her side hustles and is going to school to get her masters in psychology as she wants to help others that have suffered abuse as well. The entire key here is, the person has to be ready for change and actively seek out help and put in the work.. if the woman doesn’t see anything wrong with the way she is living and thinks the problem is you run the other way and drop her like a bad habit.

[@theoneandonly3499]

Hope you two live happily ever after like Adam & Eve. You two are not supposed to be 100% uncorrupted. That's the whole point of marriage or being in a loving relationship with a woman. You are together because you love eachother despite you past luggage =) prove Richard, the whole MGTOW and me wrong.

[@sinfulyetsaved]

Thank you! I appreciate that.

[@PerspectiveDrill]

@@sinfulyetsaved eventually she will crave the past dick come back after 10 years wel see

[@BalkanManic]

you settled for a 304. No man wants to invest in a girl who others got without any investment. You settled.

[@FIGHTER_mlbb]

@@BalkanManic these "others" no longer exist in reality, only in your imagination, to prey on your insecurities

[@torreto5391]

I understand this guy so much because i have been doing the same and i am 26. I keep chasing who*es

[@linkbelt111]

I have an ex from years ago, still super hot, a grown kid, been ran through by a couple hundred guys! She really can’t understand why good men don’t want anything to do with her….

[@cf4718]

This is the battle of rational thought vs sexual need/wants. I dated a similar lady…she was 38 yo with a fantastic body, fake implants, long blonde hair, green eyes, 5’9 120lbs, tattoos, party girl, high body count, and fun. Sure the sex was great! But she couldn’t pair bond well and she had a high need for attention. These women will never be good long term companions.

[@lq9713]

4:17 Rhymes more with "rain" that she was ran through 😂😂😂

[@alexmason8557]

You don't

[@Slidehhy]

Another quality video by Rich saving mens lives 🙏

[@andyandrew7557]

Almost all people have been promiscuous at some point in their lives . Promiscuity for a lot of people is a life phase stage , people change as they get older. I don't care if a woman has a promiscuous past,if she's in love with me and I love her that's all that matters

[@bigantigout]

Run fellas it’s not worth it

[@t.o.o.smooth5870]

You don't if you know about her past. If you're unsure, monitor her movements. You should know who she truly is within 3 months.

[@riprpmike1433]

Complicate life, justify it. Complicate life, justify it.

[@leonelorozco2514]

I always fast forward to Rich talking only. Yeah I know I am bad listener. I don't like to listen to simping stories. It is painfull.

[@pete531]

lmao

[@Thiiink]

rich is black pill thou

[@leonelorozco2514]

No he is not. Has a girlfriend, succes and a positive mind set.

[@pete531]

@@leonelorozco2514 true but he should be made man and have kids by now. imagine growing old and thinking about yourself only whole life and not having your next gen (kids). i think having family is huge aspect in ones life next to money/ career etc. this is very hard to achieve today tho

[@leonelorozco2514]

He does have kidz. He has a daughter

[@thankyoujesus2836]

The same you would any other woman. You love her protect her take care of her trust her and don’t take your problems out on her.

[@Doug5614]

Don't get attached. No matter how hot they are. I know it's easier said than done, but you gotta be able to walk away the moment you spot the red flags and see the damage within her. Sometimes it's not fair and it's something that happened to her, sometimes it may be self-inflicted damage through bad choices. She WILL become your problem if you ignore the signs.

[@cf4718]

Your comment should be read every day, it’s a great reminder.

[@Bigkahunatype100]

They have demons and they have no problem dropping them mfs off on you before they dip out not only do you have to fight yours now you’re in a whole new fight with the darkness they leave behind

[@aldumas1058]

Great comment, very true

[@HzrdHaze]

Good to luck to you Gianni!

[@miguelochoa5531]

I enjoyed that short and long clip

[@AllKinaTing]

Question: How To Deal With a Girlfriend With a Promiscuous Past???? Answer: You Don't

[@svartvist]

Simple. In business, one must learn when to cut your losses and move on. With women, the earlier the greater the sanity. Just walk away. If she inquires, tell but don't argue, and don't stick around for the drama. Life is tough enough without that.

[@stud6414]

She has 50 bodies at 22!

[@MatthewOnAMissionFromGod]

She's for the streets

[@oeckstei]

Have gentleman game, an abundance mindset, understand that attraction cannot be negotiated and above all learn to spot and avoid chaos/ assess risk properly. Recognizing early on and avoiding chaos takes priority over your horniness gents, it’s not worth it.

[@MrMathies23]

It amazes me how little common sense some men have. If you have to call in… it’s time to cut it off

[@karenc7616]

Hi Rich. 🥰🥰🥰

[@yasminogbu8929]

Rich Cooper says so many things I agree with

[@mauricioarizmendi4655]

Kudos to Rich and all the patience he summons every time he has to talk to these chumps 🤦🏽

[@toddjohnson271]

Well first, she's not your girlfriend.

[@miguelochoa5531]

16:02 gets me cracking up😂😂 so why drive it rich says 😂

[@szn1580]

Dude is 🐱 whipped to the max lmao

[@BigMikeKOE]

That guy is a huge red flag himself. It's no wonder he attracts similar types of women.

[@eoinoconnor5783]

Don’t deal with it because you don’t get involved with someone like that.

[@gabemartin72]

You don’t deal with it, or you classify as “fwb” only! Never take seriously

[@fruitloops3718]

I don't believe a word he says. You can date as many girls as you want but a simp is a simp no matter what.

[@linkbelt111]

These Beta males can get the answer from a friend in 90% less time/effort. 🤦‍♂️ Sorry, I changed my mind, this is a Charlie male, weaker than Beta…..WOW!

[@mwilliams82684]

Guys here is CHAD!!!! He’s got the tats (looks dangerous), the accent, the man bun, and is In shape.

[@jon3326]

my guess: he grew up without a father and was raised by a narcissistic mother.

[@jadizm]

I know he's Belgian but he reminds me of Valentino Rossi for some reason! LMAO!

[@oeckstei]

If you can have access to beautiful women for sex and company but they have a lot of red flags would you still go for it even if it was a short term relationship?

[@animestarlord9021]

Crazy he can land 30 girls. My count is only two and I had to drive 8 hours away from home and jump though endless hoops just to get that.