How Do the Asharis Follow the Ahlul Kitab? | Ustadh Muhammad Tim Humble

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جزاكم الله خيرا وبارك الله فيكم

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I used to be Asy'ari Alhamdulillah Allah guided me to be Athari ❤

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Barakallahu feekum

[@carimaelfarrah7800]

"On a day when shin shall be exposed, they shall be ordered to prostrate, but be unable" (Qur'an 68:42), al-Tabari says, "A number of the exegetes of the Companions (Sahaba) and their students (tabi‘in) held that it [a day when shin shall be exposed] means that a dire matter (amrun shadid) shall be disclosed" (Jami‘ al-bayan, 29.38)-the shin’s association with direness being that it was customary for Arab warriors fighting in the desert to ready themselves to move fast and hard through the sand in the thick of the fight by lifting the hems of their garments above the shin. This was apparently lost upon later anthropomorphists, who said the verse proved ‘Allah has a shin,’ or, according to others, ‘two shins, since one would be unbecoming.’ Al-Tabari also relates from Muhammad ibn ‘Ubayd al-Muharibi, who relates from Ibn al-Mubarak, from Usama ibn Zayd, from ‘Ikrima, from Ibn ‘Abbas that shin in the above verse means "a day of war and direness (harbin wa shidda)" (ibid., 29.38). All of these narrators are those of the sahih or rigorously authenticated collections except Usama ibn Zayd, whose hadiths are hasan or ‘well authenticated.’ I guess you will now claim Ibn Abbas, radiallahu anhu, was an Ashari following Ahlul-Kitab.?!?!

[@islam_for_life_]

Are you denying the Ḥadīth of ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī which states Allah will reveal his shin on day of judgement 😅

[@yonisw3649]

@@carimaelfarrah7800what did Istiwaa mean to the salaf?

[@yonisw3649]

1) Imam Al-Tabari mentioned views on "Istiwaa" then chose the view of Ahl Al-hadith that Allah [ascended and elevated above.] 2) he says Istiwaa is an action of Allah happened AFTER the creation of samaa'. 3) he says Allah is on the throne while his knowledge is everywhere. 4) he was amazed at how someone could deny the clear meaning of istiwaa which is known to the 'Arabs, and mentioned the salaf's tafsir that it is ascension and elevation. 5) in case someone says he means elevation of status, he made it clear that elevation in istawa is "like one saying : 'this person has done istiwaa on his bed', which he means by it; his aboveness over it" so he affirms meaning of ulow in its Arabic use, i.e one thing over another. 6) in his tafsir of "do you feel secure that he who is in samaa' would cause the earth the swallow you?"he say: "he is Allah". 7) in his tafsir of "and he is with you wherever you are" he said: ""And He is a witness over you, O people, wherever you may be. He knows you, knows your deeds, your movements, and your resting places, while He is above His Throne over the seven heavens." again there should be no desperate attempt to say he meant above in status, as he specified Allah is over the throne, and the throne is over the seven heavens, besides the fact he was clarifying where Allah is and where he is not, he affirmed Allah's knowledge is everywhere but he is over the throne. 9) in his tafsir of " and he is the most high, the most great" he mentioned two opposite views: "(And He is the Most High). Some said this means He is the Most High above any comparable or similar entities, and they denied that it means He is high in location. They said it is not befitting for any place to be devoid of Him, and there is no meaning in describing Him as high in location, because that would describe Him as being in one place rather than another." He is obviously referring to the Jahmiyyah who said Allah is everywhere. Then mentioned the opposing view which is from Ahl Al-hadith; [and notice there are only two possibilities, either one of the other] he said : ""And others said: The meaning of this is that He is the Most High above His creation by the elevation of His location above the locations of His creation; for He, exalted be His mention, is above all His creation and His creation is beneath Him, as He described Himself that He is on the Throne, thus He is high above them by that." I already showed that the Imam believe that Allah is over the throne, as in one thing over another in reality, and that he says Allah is not in earth, but over the throne and it is his knowledge that is everywhere, so he can't be holding the first view of the Jahmiyyah, and must be that the second view is his, which is why he explained it using his terminology illustrating that "as Allah described by being on the throne" which is what he affirms as Arabic entails. Otherwise, one would attribute him to the first view which the Salaf made takfir of Jahmiyyah for. If one has a third option, please go ahead, if you disagree that he holds one of the above, then mention what is the third of the two views one saying Allah is everywhere and the other, he is on the throne! That third view is; Allah is neither inside the world nor outside, nor above nor below. If you believe it's his view quote him. Al-tabari affirms that Mosesﷺ claims he has a lord who is in heaven [samaa'] and pharaoh thought moses is lying. if you deny Allah is in samaa' you are not only disagreeing with Al-tabari, but with Mosesﷺ and agreeing with pharaoh may Allah curse him.

[@yonisw3649]

@@carimaelfarrah7800 This is a chronological list of +20 statements of the Salaf and some scholars who came after them, in regards to Al-Isitiwāʾ, ALL BEFORE al-tabari. 1. Abū al-ʿĀliyah Rafīʿ ibn Mahrān al-Riyāḥī (d. 93) Regarding, “He Istawā ilā al-samāʾ,” Abū al-ʿĀliyah said, “Irtafaʿ (rose over).” Its isnād is ḥasan, and Ibn Abī Ḥātim (d. 327) said the same was reported from Al-Ḥasan al-Baṣrī (d. 110) and Al-Rabīʿ ibn Anas (d. 139). 2. Mujāhid ibn Jabr al-Makkī (d. 103) Al-Firyābī (d. 212) narrated in his tafsīr that on the Āyah, “Then, He Istawā above the Throne,” Mujāhid said, “He ʿAlā (ascended) above the Throne.” Shaykh al-Albānī authenticated its isnād in Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww (p. 101). 3. Abū Mujālid ʿIkrimah al-Madanī (d. 105) On the Āyah, “Then, He Istawā above the Throne,” ʿIkrimah, the student of Ibn ʿAbbās (d. 68), said that the Istiwāʾ of Allāh above the Throne was on the day of Jumuʿah. Its isnād is ḥasan. 4. Qatādah ibn Diʿāmah al-Sadūsī (d. 118) On the Āyah, “Then, He Istawā above the Throne,” Qatādah similarly said that His Istiwāʾ was on the seventh day, which is after the six days in which the heavens and earth were created. All its transmitters are trustworthy. This shows the impossibility of interpreting ‘Istawā’ as ‘Istawlā’ (dominated), since it would entail that Allāh did not have control or dominance over the Throne until the moment that He dominated it. 5. Rabīʿah ibn Abī ʿAbdil-Raḥmān (d. 136) On the Āyah, “The Most Merciful Istawā above the Throne,” a man asked, “How did He ascend (kayf Istawā)?” Rabīʿah replied, “Al-Istiwāʾ is not unknown, and its kayf (modality) is not comprehensible… …from Allāh is the message, and upon the Messenger (صلى الله عليه وسلم) is to convey, and upon us is to believe (in it).” Shaykh al-Islām ibn Taymiyyah (d. 728) and others have authenticated it. 6. Muqātil ibn Sulaymān al-Balkhī (d. 150) On the Āyah, “Then, He Istawā above the Throne,” he said, “He settled upon the Throne.” If one dismisses this since some scholars accused Muqātil of tashbīh, know that others have given the same tafsīr 7. Abū ʿAbdillāh Mālik ibn Anas al-Madanī (d. 179) On the Āyah, “The Most Merciful Istawā above the Throne,” a man asked, “How did He ascend (kayf Istawā)?” Imām Mālik replied, “The kayf (modality) is not comprehensible, and Al-Istiwāʾ is not unknown… …belief in it is obligatory, and to ask about it is a bidʿah. Indeed, I fear that you have gone astray,” and Imām Mālik (d. 179) ordered that the man leave the gathering. As Imām al-Dhahabī (d. 748) and others have said, this is authentically established from Imām Mālik. 8. ʿAbdullāh ibn al-Mubārak al-Ḥanẓalī (d. 181) Al-Bukhārī (d. 256) reports that Ibn al-Mubārak said, “We do not say that Allāh is here on earth, as is what the Jahmiyyah say; rather, He has ascended (Istawā) above the Throne.” This is ṣaḥīḥ, but it has different wordings. Assuming the authenticity of this wording, it would refute ‘Istawlā’ (dominated), as Ibn al-Mubārak (d. 181) wouldn’t have differentiated between the earth and the Throne if he held ‘Istawlā’ to be correct, since Allah has domination over everything, not just the Throne. 9. Bishr ibn ʿUmar al-Zahrānī (d. 206) On the Āyah, “The Most Merciful Istawā above the Throne,” Al-Zahrānī said, “I heard more than one of the Mufassirīn (exegetes) say, ‘He Irtafaʿ (rose) above the Throne.’” Al-Albānī authenticated its isnād in Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww (p. 160). 10. Yazīd ibn Hārūn al-Wāsiṭī (d. 206) He said, “Whoever claims ‘The Most Merciful Istawā above the Throne’ in a way that differs from what is affirmed in the hearts of the ʿāmmah (i.e., the masses of the scholars), then he is a Jahmī.” Al-Albānī said, “Its isnād is jayyid.” 11. Abū ʿUbaydah Maʿmar ibn al-Muthannā (d. 210) On the Āyah, “The Most Merciful Istawā above the Throne,” he said, “This means ʿAlā (ascended), as the Arabs say, ‘I rose (istawayt) above the animal.’” This can be found in his own book, Majāz al-Qurʾān (2/15). 12. Abū ʿUbaydah Maʿmar ibn al-Muthannā (d. 210) On the Āyah, “The Most Merciful Istawā above the Throne,” he said, “This means ʿAlā (ascended), as the Arabs say, ‘I rose (istawayt) above the animal.’” This can be found in his own book, Majāz al-Qurʾān (2/15). 13. Muḥamad ibn Yūsuf al-Firyābī (d. 212) To explain the Āyah, “Then, He Istawā above the Throne,” he quoted the tafsīr of Mujāhid (d. 103), who said, “He ʿAlā (ascended) above the Throne.” This is also in his own tafsīr, as Al-Ḥāfiẓ ibn Ḥajar (d. 852) states. 14. ʿAbdullāh ibn al-Zubayr al-Ḥumaydī (d. 219) He said, “And we say, ‘The Most Merciful Istawā above the Throne,’ and whoever claims (i.e., explains it in a way) other than this, then he is a Jahmī negator.” This can be found in his Uṣūl al-Sunnah (p. 42). 15. Muḥamamd ibn Ziyād ibn al-Aʿrābī (d. 231) He was asked, “O Abā ʿAbdillāh, what is the meaning of, ‘The Most Merciful Istawā above the Throne’?” Ibn al-Aʿrābī replied, “He is mustaw (risen) above His Throne.” The questioner objected, “Rather, its meaning is ‘Istawlā’!” Ibn al-Aʿrābī (d. 231) said, “What makes you think this? The Arabs do not say, ‘So-and-so has istawlā (dominated) a throne,’ unless it is an opponent […] but as for Allāh, He does not have any such opponent, and He is above His Throne as He has informed.” Its isnād is ṣaḥīḥ. 16. Isḥāq ibn Ibrāhīm al-Rāhawayh (d. 238) On the Āyah, “The Most Merciful Istawā Above the Throne,” Isḥāq said: Bishr ibn 'Umar informed us, “I heard more than one of the Mufassirīn say, ‘He Irtafaʿ (rose) above the Throne.’” Shaykh al-Albānī authenticated its isnād. And regarding, “The Most Merciful Istawā Above the Throne,” Isḥāq ibn Rāhawayh (d. 238) said, “The Ijmāʿ of the people of knowledge is that He ascended over (فوق) the Throne, and that He is Knowing of all things, even as low as the seventh earth.” Its narrators are reliable. 17. ʿAbdul-ʿAzīz ibn Yaḥyā al-Kinānī (d. 240) He said, “The claim of the Jahmiyyah regarding (20:5) is that its meaning is ‘Istawlā,’ just like how the Arabs say, ‘So-and-so has istawā upon Miṣr and Shām,’ intending thereby to say, ‘He dominated the two (lands).’” Imām al-Kinānī (d. 240) continues, “(That interpretation) entails that there was a time during which Allāh did not have power over the Throne […] (since) He said, ‘He created the heavens and earth and whatever is between them in six days; 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘯, He Istawā above the Throne…’ “[…] so if we interpret ‘Istawā’ as meaning ‘Istawlā,’ which is what you have claimed, then this entails that Allāh only attained dominion (over the Throne) at that moment, not before.” Ibn Taymiyyah (d. 728) and others attributed this to his book, Al-Radd ʿalā al-Jahmiyyah. 18. Qutaybah ibn Saʿīd al-Khurāsānī (d. 240) He reports the Ijmāʿ of the scholars on affirming ʿUluww, based on the Āyah, “The Most Merciful Istawā above the Throne.” Its isnād is authentic. This shows that the Salaf understood Al-Istiwāʾ to entail the affirmation of ʿUluww. 19. Imām Aḥmad ibn Ḥanbal (d. 241) He also used the Āyah of Al-Istiwāʾ to prove ʿUluww, which wouldn’t be the case had it meant ‘Istawlā,’ since ‘Istawlā’ only concerns the Qahar (Domination) of Allāh over His creation, not the Ascendency (ʿUluww) of Allāh above His creation. 20. Abū al-Ḥasan ʿAbdul-Wahhāb al-Warrāq (d. 251) Al-Khallāl (d. 311) narrated that ʿAbdul-Wahhāb, the student of Imām Aḥmad (d. 241), explained Al-Istiwāʾ to mean sitting. 21. Muḥammad ibn Ismāʿīl al-Bukhārī (d. 256) He quoted Abū al-ʿĀliyah (d. 93) explaining ‘Istawā’ to mean Irtafaʿ (rose over), and on the Āyah, “Then, He Istawā above the Throne,” Al-Bukhārī quotes Mujāhid (d. 103) saying, “He ʿAlā (ascended) above the Throne.” 22. ʿAbdullāh ibn Qutaybah al-Marwazī (d. 276) He was a student of Aḥmad (d. 241), and he said in his works that Al-Istiwāʾ means Al-Istiqrār (settling), just as Muqātil (d. 150) did. This is also attributed to Ibn al-Mubārak (d. 181) and it was favored by Al-Qaṣṣāb (d. 360). 23. ʿUthmān ibn Saʿīd al-Dārimī (d. 280) Bishr al-Marīsī al-Jahmī (d. 218) was from those who claimed that Al-Istiwāʾ means Al-Istīlāʾ (dominating). Imām al-Dārimī refuted this taʾwīl, as is attached.

[@yonisw3649]

@@carimaelfarrah7800 Where is Allah? ‎Let Imam Tabari tell you a final time: ‎أَمْ أَمِنْتُمْ مَنْ فِي السَّمَاءِ: وهو الله ‎"Or do you feel secure that He who is above the heaven...’ and it is Allah.” ‎-Tafsir Tabari 67:17. ‎1.) ثم استوى على العرش: فإنه يعني: علا عليه ‎"Then He (Allah) rose over the throne.’ Meaning He (Allah) ascended over it.” ‎-Tafsir Tabari 13:2 ‎3.) ما يكون من نجوى ثلاثة الا هو رابعهم ‎"And there is not a third from them except that He is the fourth of them." ‎أنه مشاهدهم بعلمه، وهو على عرشه ‎“That He witnesses them with His knowledge and He (Allah) is above His throne.” ‎-Tafsir Tabari 58:7. 4.) ‎الضحاك:(هُوَ مَعَهُمْ ) قال: هو فوق العرش وعلمه معهم ‎Ad-Dhahaak said in regards to Allahs statement "And He is with them": He is above the throne and His knowledge is with them.” ‎-Tafsir Tabari 58:7

[@yonisw3649]

Bro why u deleting my comments I was literally backing u but ur keeping that ash’ari guys comments so that he may spread shubuhah to the laymen?

[@islam_for_life_]

SubhanaAllah. I haven't viewed the comments in a long time. I haven't deleted anything akhi.

[@yonisw3649]

@@islam_for_life_ forgive me akhi I maybe forgot to press send😂😂😂

[@islam_for_life_]

@@yonisw3649 No worries akhi.