How does the sound of BBCSO Strings compare to SSS and Bespoke?

[@kristoffersundberg123]

Thanks for the video. I found it interesting, but perhaps for the next video of other sections you also, in the video editing, cut together all the played comparisons in quick succession without talk in between. I find it slightly difficult to retain a vivid memory of the sound while waiting for you to find and load the next patch. I don’t mean that as an alternative to what you do now, but rather as a recap before moving on to the next part.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Noted!

[@joshistitic]

The more I watch your content the more I enjoy orchestral music, this is coming from a metalhead by the way so you're clearly doing your job right!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

That’s great to hear!!

[@paopis]

Celli Spiccato - BBCSO 2:05 / SSS 2:23 BBCSO 3:23 / SSS 3:12 Celli Long - BBCSO 5:57 / SSS 5:08 BBCSO 6:10 / SSS 6:22 Violins 1 Long: BBCSO 10:10 / SSS 9:50 BBCSO 13:10 / SSS 12:43 Basses Spiccato: BBCSO 17:44 / SSS 17:53 BBCSO 18:25 / SSS 18:17 Basses Pizzicato: BBCSO 18:32 / SSS 18:44 Basses Long: BBCSO 20:29 / SSS 20:37

[@TheUnderscore_]

This isn't pinned *why?*

[@stephenbishop9641]

Thanks for the comparison. Interesting how much the room influences the recording. Nice to see a bit of recording history in the background.

[@88smypassion2]

Love BBC and the comparison. The biggest deal breaker for me not mentioned in the comparison is Kontakt vs SA browser.

[@MrRennieFrumpkin]

Thanks for these recent videos Paul, found them all incredibly useful. What would be really great is to hear the examples in the context of a short track (15-20 secs ). Obviously that’s going to add to your work load so completely understandable if you’d rather not. 👍

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

I'll have a look and see if I can do something along those lines.

[@michaelrohanek9518]

Thanks Paul. Very interesting how one library isn't clearly 'better' than the other, more like fit for purpose. Lovely to see the new studio up and running :) I'll always watch these videos so keep them coming if you can.

[@rubenmolino1480]

suitable for your purpose? ....... I don't understand ......... what would be a different purpose?

[@michaelrohanek9518]

@@rubenmolino1480 Because they all sound different, different rooms and therefore have strengths in different contexts. He explained it well.. BBC works as a beautiful symphonic section where as you can hear individual players in the other libraries, so in my mind I can find uses for both those sounds.

[@kavokei1337]

My goodness that studio came together nicely! I'm not sure how you can ever bear to leave that room. Just to add, an interesting video as well. I'm not sure I can hear all the nuances with my limited setup, but perhaps a slight difference. However, the Achilles heel of this kind of analysis is that neither examples are ever going to sound bad, just a bit different. I think I do hear what you mean about cohesiveness... I think. Unless it's my ears being led by your narration. A good illustration of pro ears vs amateur ears...

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Hi Kavokei, you are right about different sounds vs necessarily good vs bad - its all very subjective! Its interesting to compare and see why they are different where we can. And thanks re the Studio! I'm in here a lot!

[@konradzinner2255]

Just the video I was waiting for! I am just deciding whether I want to finish my Symphonic line or just get the BBC Orchestra... Now I somehow want both :)

[@daniellee3059]

Interesting - thanks Paul! I'd love to hear a short legato mockup comparison of all the sections (though the only lib I'm missing is bespoke, so it is out of complete selfishness).

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

I'll have look into that!

[@sambrashear3637]

Paul...I requested this in a message on the VI Forum...Thanks for this..Really wish you all would start selling the Bespoke stuff. They are imperfections in them and thats what makes them perfect

[@Metalpazallteway]

I also think the library sounding so nicely you could've or should do an expansion to it in a future update maybe, perhaps adding a an option for just string runs or even sliders/dive bombs, but instead of having them as brushes, have them as independent running lines. That'll be a game changer!!

[@StephenBaysted]

Thanks Paul - very interesting video. The thing I miss most from the Bespoke strings when I'm using the other string libraries is the way we can use both velocity and mod wheel on the longs; I still use the big ensemble strings patch for that reason. Also, I do find the ensemble staccs from the Bespoke have so much more life and dynamic range compared to the more recent refined libraries. BBC SO has an excellent sound, and fantastic balance.

[@sambrashear3637]

I still think the Bespoke smokes anything else in their string range

[@caseyfulton6932]

BBC SO seems more agile and SSS is more cinematic/ epic. They sound best when you spread the harmonies and counterpoint across each section ie Violin I, Violin II, Violas, Celli & Basses like you would see in a live orchestral score.

[@vRoMe0]

Great video Paul !! Would love to see this for Brass & Woodwinds too. Also, it’d be great to see a little more of articulations & how dynamics stack up in comparison in different sections.. Cheers !!

[@c3ntury1337]

Just the video I wanted (and requested). I'd already decided on BBCSO by 8 mins, but also looking forward to the other sections. Gonna have to wait 2 paychecks either way. The comments about lacking 3D space and the players blending together is a criticism I have with some other libraries I own, too. There's a wonderful concert on KZbin, Studio Ghibli 25 year anniversary, and I can clearly hear that the first chair of the first violins is mixed in there (they used close mics attached to the bridge of the violin.) So that's a nice touch that BBCSO has a leader mic.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Great I'll check that out!

[@Metalpazallteway]

7:24 "It seems more blended somehow" that's the outcome of success.... I think the way you guys placed the mics was truly splendid and the more person doing to panoramic EQing of the instruments but maybe the amount of strings used as well. As much as the cohesive playing of the ensemble they had great response.

[@nativeVS]

Would be interesting to also have Air 1 for context (I'd be mainly interested with Brass and Low Winds).

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Good idea

[@quinn9598]

There's a huge number of musicians that are interested in these libraries but don't have the upfront finance - anyone know if there's a finance-over-time option available for Spitfire products? edit: obviously really appreciate the spring sale! thinking of picking up BBCSO

[@Ineptune]

You could use BBCSO Discover which is about 50 USD. There's also an option to get it for free if you fill out a survey and are willing to wait two weeks for it. It's pretty much the same library with a few less instruments and articulations, and is perfect for tying out the BBCSO yourself without having to shill out 400-1,000 USD for it.

[@awpqq]

I'm liking the sound of the BBC SO - but wow - that ram useage vs Symphonic Strings. I have Symphonic. Chamber and Studio and finding it hard to justify another orchestra. Also worried about that ram - even though I have 64Gb. Why does it load so much into ram rather than streaming from the SSD?

[@paulhorsfield1]

I purchased the bbcso a couple of weeks ago. I really love the sound, but have to use it carefully because of the ram usage. Wow it really does use a lot! I’m not the only one to notice this.

[@samuelgl]

@@paulhorsfield1 how much ram did it take up?

[@alontrigger]

Very interesting Paul, thanks for that! I really think that composers with a more classical background would prefer the BBC SO for it's cohesive blend of sound. The choice between the libraries really depends on what is the esthetic goal you are after. That is of course comes from a pure sound point of view, not considering the difference of convenience of use: vst compare to plug in and price.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks Alon - its interesting how the players technique and style - as well as the recording process - can affect the end sound so drastically.

[@AFStudiosMedia]

Id have to agree. BBCSO is fantastic for natural sounding scores but for epic battle scenes its hard to get the Orchestra to get that kind of punch. But since im a john Williams fan bbcso will definitely work out for me

[@miguellinares]

BBC has a more cohesive and defined sound, SSS has an excessive and uncontrolled vibrato when you pass the control to more than half. The musicians that day did not have their best day. I have to say that mixing SSS with studio strings I get a much more defined and tuned sound, in favor of SSS being recorded in Air studios fits very well with other libraries such as symphonic and chamber evolutions, and being an imperfect library makes it more human which translates into more realistic.

[@a123386]

Hi Paul, thank you so much for this video! I am deciding between SSS and BBC. Which one would you pick if you were to only choose one out of the two? Thank you!

[@5ammy13]

Right now SSO. It's on sale and is one plugin and includes harp and piano.

[@keiththeodosiou]

Definitely a big difference with all 3 specially the Basses. They all sound great and depending on the music you are composing, it would be good to interchange them

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thats it - different flavours!

[@carlakihlstedt1194]

Totally clarifying. Thank you!

[@rubenmolino1480]

It seems good to me that they have advanced in the new library ... but what do I do with the previous ones? .... I have spent a lot of money already ... and I am not a Hollywood composer.

[@karmakarmakarma]

This is a very good point that I have been contemplating lately as well. With many Spitfire products now being very similar, it feels like buying a new car when the old one gets a little dirty. I would love to see them offer an ecosystem that allowed customers to upgrade to keep up with their advances rather than buying in fully over and over again. Hopefully, Paul will see this comment and consider it with Christian.

[@TimShoebridge]

karmakarmakarma One answer would be to simply have the option to sell on your license for products you no longer wish to own. This would obviously need to be something that Spitfire supported and facilitated. I too have some of their products which I feel I have now outgrown...

[@karmakarmakarma]

@@TimShoebridge That's an option for sure. I was also wondering if some kind of cross-grade option would make sense. That could keep cash flowing into Spitfire, and it'd be income that they may otherwise not receive. As an example, I own Studio Strings, Studio Woodwinds, Studio Brass and Solo Strings. I hear the differences between those libraries and BBCSO for sure, but in my case, it's not an (intro price) $800 difference, so I spend my money elsewhere. This is a classic business school pricing case study.

[@andreagiannelli5307]

@@karmakarmakarma its a very good point but it will never happen. For the very simple reason that at the end of the day Spitfire is a business and need to operate like one. it doesn't make any sense for them to allow upgrade from a different library to a another. It would make sense to upgrade from a basic to pro but from the same library if that makes sense. But for 2 completely different ones it just will never happen.

[@karmakarmakarma]

@@andreagiannelli5307 Operating like a business is actually the point I was hoping to make. I'm not saying that a cross-grade program IS an answer, but it's maybe an idea to look into. Imagine five of Spitfire's current customers consider buying BBCSO for the $800 intro price, and of the five, two actually buy it. Revenue for Spitfire is $1600. Then imagine if the price were $500 as a cross-grade and for that price, four of them buy it. Revenue for Spitfire is $2000 with no additional development costs or cost of goods since software isn't a physical item. If three of the customers bought it at either the $800 or $500 price, then a cross-grade plan does not work and Spitfire should avoid it. Pricing is a complex question for any company, but there's a scenario where it could make sense and could perhaps be helpful in keeping existing customers more deeply engaged over time.

[@edrugmanmusic]

Nice comparison Paul! Thanks for this. Loving the incredible blended sound of BBCSO. Just a quick question are the Symphonic Strings tuned @ A=438/439? They have always sounded ever so slightly flat to me. Thanks!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

No 440! Thanks!

[@edrugmanmusic]

Paul Thomson That’s interesting 6:14 BBC in the video vs 6:22 SS I hear a definite pitch difference perhaps 4 or 5 cents? Have tested this myself and there does seem to be a pitch difference. Perhaps the acoustic space of air hall resulted in the players playing a slightly wider and flat-biased vibrato? Interestingly the bespoke is more at pitch. I find layering SS with other libraries on certain notes creates a quasi voix-celeste effect.

[@Ajwmusicmedia]

What combination of mics is used in mix 1 for BBCSO?

[@jaketanner109]

@Paul Thompson may I ask why you didn't test legato? If you did, I missed it...sorry. Legato seems to be the core of any library, so I was a bit disappointed to have missed it.

[@wolfhawk1999]

I honestly like the BBC one the best

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

It’s definitely very subjective but the BBC has the sound of an orchestral section that play together all the time. Thanks for your comment!

[@alexlenin7406]

Extremely useful! Thanks! Could you make some comparison for Solo strings as well?

[@lahattec]

Interesting to hear. Where can I get the Bespoke Strings? :)

[@dudeofficialchannel]

Would be interested to hear the brass and woodwinds compared (yes it is very interesting)... and I never quite understood why you didn't do a Spitifire Symphonic Percussion library by the way. Also have an another question on your studio room dimensions which I am interested in. I did watch a lot of the build videos but don't recall hearing dimensions. So hope you will be happy to answer that.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

I think from memory its 17m x 11m.. and percussion - thats the Spitfire Percussion library! Same room. Joby Burgess playing.

[@dudeofficialchannel]

@@PaulThomsonMusic Ah, I'm used to seeing a lot of orchestral sample libraries in their entirety named similarly silver/gold/platinum/cinematic/synchron etc. so was easily confused without Lego labelling! Cheers.

[@HollywoodVirtualAudio]

@Paul is that a Studer A800 over (YOUR) left shoulder? Those were the days. 24 tracks of absolute Crazy Glue. Nothing beats 2 inch tape... NOTHING!

[@mr_don_key]

But Paul, which one do you presonally (for your work) find best in sound character and controls? (aka what do you use mostly)

[@rubenmolino1480]

Is there a problem of rapid loading of instruments on the BBC? ... or does it look like me?

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

We've actually made a change to the way the plugin first reads the database. We're testing this over the weekend before rolling out next week. It will substantially shorten the first instantiation of the plug which is usually where the delay is. This is more noticeable on HD rather than SSD

[@anatomicallymodernhuman5175]

Enlightening. Do you normally use Pro Tools for composing? Or is it just a more reliable platform for recording multitrack for video?

[@anatomicallymodernhuman5175]

The Shitstorm Starter, figured he was probably a Logic guy, which is why I was surprised to see PT. I use PT all day every day for a variety of tasks, including composing. I’d rather use Logic for that, but my composing rig has to be Windows for now, for a number of reasons. It’s certainly possible to compose in PT, though it’s less convenient.

[@johnhealey6455]

The BBCSO sounds so real. Beautiful.

[@mr_don_key]

SSS sounds realistic too, has more articulations and dyn layer aswel. But requires more tweaking

[@dafingaz]

Nice!

[@kerrysmith]

It’s a clear set of differences. The immediacy and blend in the BBC SO almost makes me wish I could trade my SSO in for it. It has a... more familiar sound for me.

[@GuyVignati]

I really like the sound of the bespoke library, is it available to buy if someone's interested?

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks Guido! I’m afraid not.. it was just a small group that were involved in that project. A long time ago!!

[@GuyVignati]

@@PaulThomsonMusic oh so sad...anyway BBSO sounds awesome, think I'll go for the core version of it :)

[@AFStudiosMedia]

Id love to upgrade to the core edition eventually. Unfortunately thats not in the foreseeable future

[@anothercrappypianist]

Interesting!

[@yeppy013]

Hello, what are the specs of your computer you are demonstrating this?

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Its an iMac Pro, from 2017, 3GHz Intel Xeon.

[@WillWilson]

Two videos in as many hours? We are spoilt!

[@Metalpazallteway]

I just think that the more mics you have the power ambience power you have and BBC proves it, having less mics gives the rm a very monotonous 2Dimensional feel vs more mics and placement feels almost 4D.

[@AlexLeeCarv]

Hey Paul, I bought the BBCSO and I'm unable to use it on Windows 10 and Cubase 9. It's been 2 weeks. Will this ever going to be addressed? You should put a big note on your website telling people about issues with Windows, should I know this I wouldn't have paid $750 for a product I cannot use. Your support can't help me and I'm unable to write orchestral music because I chose the BBCSO as my first library, can I please get a refund? Thank you.

[@brookmunro]

AlexLeeCarv what did SA support tell you?

[@darrenbrook4641]

What's the issue?

[@AlexLeeCarv]

@@brookmunro that I should check windows defender, try different buffer sizes, repair my installation. The support takes a long time to reply and is useless. I was promised an update that would fix all my issues a week ago. Apparently I can't get a refund because I already downloaded their defective program but how could I know?? That's why I'm asking Paul to help me get a refund.

[@AlexLeeCarv]

@@darrenbrook4641 pops and clicks, the plugin reads 11gb of ram when in fact is using almost all my 64gb, takes forever to load and will purge itself after an hour or so, problems with samples and random crashes to desktop.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Hi Alex, Our support guys will find a resolution for you, just please be patient and keep working with them, thanks and sorry for the delay in getting you up and running. I know its little consolation but most PC users have no issues. PC world has so many unique parts, drivers, but we have a really talented team and I'm confident they can sort you out.

[@studioelements6110]

BBC Chamber Strings :) with evo grid :)

[@mr_don_key]

i see what you did there... ;-)

[@MarcoVialeBakmaind]

Impressive the deepness of the staccato bass of the SSO but not less beautiful the amount of details of the BBC ones. Maybe the BBC was played with higher dynamic. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6jHnaGweNV7mKs

[@badnewschris8002]

I am really interested on trying those bespoke SA samples xD

[@jaketanner109]

Why compare the bespoke if it’s not available for us to buy? Also BBC is considerably louder than SSS. I do love the sound of BBC but not a 100% fair comparison.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

Thanks for the feedback Jake - entirely unintentional the volume diff. And the bespoke mainly as a curio, I get multiple emails/ messages every week with people asking to hear it! It’s quite ancient now compared to the newer libraries.

[@jaketanner109]

@@PaulThomsonMusic interesting...which library was inspired by the bespoke? And can we expect a "throwback" patch one day from it?

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

The symphonic series (and chamber strings) are the direct descendants. We promised the players in the bespoke it would never be commercially released as it was a very small number of licensees taking part. A kind of private library.

[@jaketanner109]

Paul Thomson i thought that was the case. Last question if you don’t mind. There is a nice detail in the BBC. Can I get a similar detail with SSS? I’m looking at bbc core or SSS. Thanks Paul.

[@jaketanner109]

Btw I have SCS already.

[@RolfMaierBode]

when using all those mics @11:45 you can see the "Disc" peaking above 20% - for just "Violins 1" - no way you can use the whole orchestra with such a setting on a "normal" computer - which is why we all need to spend >10k for the new Mac Pro with PCIe SSD RAIDs, right? :)

[@wibblewobble1934]

There is something really magical about the sound of Air Lyndhurst Hall from the Symphonic Strings library... but in terms of the quality of the instrument samples, the BBC is better.

[@The300ZXGuru]

Im sorry but the Air Studios strings that Mr Martin put together are way better sounding then BBC. I guess the Lyndhurst hall sounds better and makes ambient strings sound amazing

[@Justin.Franks]

Count the number of times Paul says "Interesting"!

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

You’ll lose count pretty quickly!!

[@3DGEMAN1000]

A new drinking game perhaps?

[@DadoSimicStudiostriver]

Hmmmm..... Interesting.

[@jammypockets606]

"I'm going slightly mad here" he says whilst using 4.38gb of resources for 1 string sound 😁

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

sometimes you have to throw everything at it! lol

[@russellaustincomposer1664]

Pity you don't make these things for Sibelius or Dorico !

[@caseyfulton6932]

BBC does work with Dorico very well

[@chrismassa5891]

Is that Pro Tools you are using.....lol. From the looks of it you're never going to the London office.

[@PaulThomsonMusic]

I am! down in London twice a week most weeks, split my time to try and maximise productivity!

[@Leomerya12]

I like your voice, but I feel you do too much talking in these walkthroughs.

[@productionmusicmasterclass]

less talking more playing the sounds please