How Fire Emblem Balances Jagens

[@Mekkkah]

pitfall

[@ProfessorBopper]

Lol I knew I’d have at least one of ‘em in there

[@meisterschwert]

@@ProfessorBopper But from Mr. Pitfall himself...

[@tal8858]

@Don't Talk Zoomer fe7 marcus came before seth its called an oifaye whoch is just a jagen that doesnt really fall off hard

[@lpfan4491]

I personally split them into jagen(stereotypical prepromotes), oifey(them except with decent growths), seths(basically some of the best units in their games) and gunter. I count gunter seperately because of the meme of him not even getting a silverlance at join and leaving the party before the game really begins.

[@abledadood2842]

@Don't Talk Zoomer It's an Oifay

[@Eevee860]

I like that fates balances its jagen by just immediately throwing him off a bridge after 1 chapter of having him

[@navadax4541]

He falls off in his second chapter both figuratively and literally

[@Shagaru_Bleed]

Tutorial: How to fall off.

[@Scoottheboot670]

Just one of the reasons fates is fantastic tbh

[@GodofDumps]

What a bold statement​@@Scoottheboot670

[@midnightcowboi8193]

Three Houses Maddening: Who should we deploy, m'lord? Me: Please, I just need someone who won't die if an enemy npc breathes on them Three Houses Maddening: No, sire.

[@ProfessorBopper]

Byleth: Dad, help! We’re being murdered! Jeralt: No, sire.

[@louiesatterwhite3885]

Maddening mode early game is essentially: hey. What if every unit was a boss unit?

[@maverick5169]

*laughs in Dedue*

[@NEETKitten]

@@louiesatterwhite3885 huh, sounds like early-game Nocturne.

[@roxanepineda3609]

@@NEETKitten OMG the game were the wind demons from the tutorial kill me 3 times xD

[@henryreturns1397]

"How Fire Emblem Balances Jagens" - Sigurd "well I got roasted on the mid game" - Sothe "Is not that I am bad , is that the Dawn Brigade sucks against the GRIEL MERCENARIES" - Marcus "I was too old to carry Roy on FE6 but I was on my peak to carry Eliwood on FE7" - Titania "I pretty much can hold my owned but can't solo the game" - Seth "What does balance means ?"

[@alexnuzlocker12]

Seth: When you say "balanced," are you referring to breakfast?

[@lisasemarron5413]

On the sothe one it more the fact they gave the grip mercenaries too high bases and very little chapter to work with the dawn brigade

[@sohn7767]

- Frederick: “I kill everyone until Robin kills everything“

[@rewrose2838]

how exactly does Marcus's age matter when Roy can just hop on the horse with him??

[@daveash9146]

very seth indeed

[@ChromeBirb]

If i had a nickel for every youtuber with a gen 1 Pokémon profile picture who makes videos about how valuable the Jagen units are I'd have two nickels, which isn't much but it's crazy it happened twice

[@ProfessorBopper]

If I were you, I’d ask for more than a nickel

[@Glacidon]

Who...who is the other?????.

[@ChoiceSnarf]

@@Glacidon Pandan's pfp used to be Tangela, but he changed it somewhat recently.

[@scotchegg4268]

@@Glacidon Mekkah

[@Glacidon]

@@scotchegg4268 you know.... I dont think I've ever seen Mekkahs pfp being Exeggutor yet.

[@conradcooper2710]

Not having Jeralt as the Jagen of 3H was one of 3H's worst missed opportunities

[@iloveminicactialot6895]

Catherine is best Jagen. That's why CF=worst route

[@ultimaterecoil1136]

@@iloveminicactialot6895 Catherine’s main value is her sword which is better on other people anyway.

[@iloveminicactialot6895]

@@ultimaterecoil1136 it was a joke. Still, she's good for some early game chapters as a peg. And my comment was a joke, btw

[@Halvos12]

And one of the many reasons I don't play it anymore.

[@Sidnv]

@@ultimaterecoil1136 What? In maddening mode, at the moment she joins, her base stats will dwarf every other unit's current stats. She's a godsend for all of part 1, and stays relatively useful in part 2, even if she does significantly drop off. She's one of the few units in early game maddening mode who doesn't get two rounded by thieves.

[@JP54704]

Remember kids: Bad Level Ups are not an isue if you only use Prepromoted Units.

[@ericamborsky3230]

From the profile picture, I imagined Cecilia teaching this to Roy and Lillina with the undertones of, "If you are playing on hard mode, for the love of saint Elimine, use Marcus, Jerrot and Percival!"

[@PeruvianPotato]

@@ericamborsky3230 That is a extreme amount of lore for someone that just happened to have a specific pfp

[@CSDragon]

It's an extremely big issue. They're prepromoted so they won't get as many levelups, and their levels are worse. So you end up with a horrible unit in the late game

[@AlexaRobin21]

@@CSDragon Well, let's take FE7 Marcus for example. His base stats and weapon ranks are good enough to stomp through half of HHM without gaining a single stat via leveling up. That's super RNG-proof. On his average RNG gain, however. Marcus will reach the golden 14 Attack Speed benchmark at Lv.13. If you are willing to use a Speedwing on Marcus, however, then he can reach 14 AS at Lv. 5. Another look is Pent. The dude is so busted that he doesn't need to gain a single stat leveling up to be useful for the entire game.

[@CSDragon]

@@AlexaRobin21 What you're saying about Marcus is exactly the problem with Jagens. He will stomp half of the game then fall off a cliff and be useless. Then you've wasted like 2000+ XP that could have been spent on another unit creaing an endgame monster. Also, weapon ranks don't really matter. If you're distributing XP correctly everyone should be able to use silver weapons by the time they hit lvl 20 and promote (not that you should actually use silver weapons, I always use iron to save money) And Pent joins 75% through the game, that's not nearly the same.

[@The_Big_Jay]

When I first played 3 Houses, I saw Jeralt and my mind immediately went, "Awesome, so that's our Jagen for this game?" And then he didn't join the party. *And then the story happened.*

[@gratedshtick]

So you felt backstabbed?

[@syndrome4151]

@@gratedshtick Stop.

[@alexanderticonuwu7591]

Must've felt like a knife wound.

[@MilkCalf]

They should have went back in time to fix that...

[@consolemainnoob8102]

*28 STAB WOUNDS*

[@KoopaKoot]

Maybe the real Jagens were the friends we made along the way.

[@BOOM-ck7hy]

No

[@DrickRT]

Ppl who use nino and bench Marcus:

[@jamestopfaff]

Not me I dropped Amelia quickly

[@joho4430]

According to Seth you need to make approximately 0 friends along the way and you can still win with the jagen

[@ОлексійКупранець]

when you are an enemy in the early chapters of fe8 and a paladin approaches you: what it looks like: a paladin approaching what it feels like: *impending doom* approaching

[@MugenCannon97]

Anyone else find it really weird that Gaiden/SoV gives you your traditional Jagen character at the end of the game rather than the start? Makes Alm and Lukas do all the work babying your village idiots instead.

[@ProfessorBopper]

rip Mycen in Gaiden/SoV. He comes at a point where a paladin just isn’t all that good and he doesn’t get to do much. It’s a shame really, because old dudes are fun in FE. I do find it weird, and it’d be nice if he were around during act 1 because those enemies can get pretty thick, especially in Gaiden.

[@mcihay246]

I get the feeling that Mycen is part of the Gotoh Archetype, not necessarily of the Jagen Archetype.

[@iloveminicactialot6895]

The true Jagen in SoV was Alm + Levin Sword. Best Jagen

[@ProfessorBopper]

@@iloveminicactialot6895 levin sword is daddy

[@boredomkiller99]

Funny enough Alm is basically your Jagen in gaiden. Starts of with higher base stats and move then the rest of your group and he only has one promotion compare to the standard two physical units normally have in the game. Thing is Alm actually falls off mid game for a while till he promotes and becomes good again along with him getting two personal weapons.

[@DD151]

Solid content. The audio level is pretty low and I had to turn up the volume on my headphones to hear you clearly. I think it's fine for Jagen archetypes to be in strong classes, because strong classes are fun. Rogue is a strong class in the context of FE10 earlygame because they have no movement penalty through thickets and reduced movement penalty across ledges. Knives also have the earliest forgeable 1-2 range. There are a bunch of maps where it's probably better for Sothe that he is a rogue instead of a paladin - the only superior class would by dracorider, and possibly pegasus knight.

[@ProfessorBopper]

Thanks! Getting a better microphone is definitely the dream to fix that problem. The Jagen class problem is one I am conflicted about because fun is better than balance and strong classes are very fun, especially for characters with ridiculously good combat. Those are also good points about Sothe that help make him even better as it buffs his early game while still allowing him to slowly fade as the game goes on

[@brandonbrown6922]

@@ProfessorBopper I mean, if you just get handed one of the best out of the gate, it discourages you from even bothering with some of the more niche classes. So, possibly, it's better to make Jagen's from characters who will mature into utility classes rather than just giving you a combat murder machine that will stay a combat murder machine throughout the game.

[@deskita]

I think the Frederick mention is kinda weird as he's one of the jeigans that definitely falls off. While he does have high growth rates, he gains experience at a very low rate and his base-stats are very low for his level. Due to this in spite of his weapon ranks and doubled weapon experience gain from Discipline he winds up facing low hit-rates and deals relatively low damage. Not helping matters is that Awakening, especially late-game has a lot of mages which Frederick doesn't exactly fare well against. While you can use a second seal on him, he'll still end up levelling up slower due to the internal level system, and if you reclass him to a base class he'll have to deal with that and his poor base-stats. Where he can shine when he begins to fall off is as a pair-up partner, particularly for units who need strength and defense such as Sumia. All in all I'd argue he's one of the better balanced Jeigans that people seem to think is more powerful than he is due to his growth rates.

[@ProfessorBopper]

He does in terms of combat, but I think whether or not he falls off depends on how much you value his pair up bonus. Giving plus +3 strength and defense and +1 movement is bonkers. Considering how Awakening loves snowballing, it means that Frederick can be a very useful tool even after his combat falls off. That lets you snowball units like Robin or Chrome easier, as well as helps you bring up weak units, if that’s your jam. I think it extends his shelf life much longer than just his combat

[@ultimaterecoil1136]

Frederick chrom pair up literally destroys the entire game though

[@thestylemage2092]

Bruh, you have pair up in that game and no other unit in the early game gives an even remotely similarly strong pair up.

[@boredomkiller99]

I mean thing is awakening pair ups unlike Fates scale a lot off of stats so eventually Fredrick does get surpassed halfway through as a pair up bot. Honestly Fredrick despite being one of the most important Jagens is also one of the weaker ones long term but this is mostly due to Awakening on Hard or Lunatic being a bs game were inflated stats are the only real reliable strats and doing anything but robin/chrom or Fredrick pair up is likely a waste of your time. So basically Fredrick does fall off but that still makes him better then 95% of the cast because everyone in awakening is borderline terrible above normal difficulty unless it is a late game unit because they get stat buff on harder difficulties for some reason.

[@sohn7767]

@@ultimaterecoil1136 definetly not in Lunatic and Lunatic+

[@GinkgoPete]

I once tried to push Seth off a cliff, but nothing happened since he just refused to fall off.

[@powerfulberry237]

Is this meant to be funny or clever?

[@marioluigijam3612]

@@powerfulberry237 yes

[@ThisIsntAYoutuber]

Seth is the one case where nobody has a reason not to use him unless it’s some sort of extra challenge run, as he has both base stats and growth rates for days

[@RustyRants]

@@powerfulberry237 shut up

[@CallofDutyBlackOps28]

very Seth.

[@SSBBPOKEFAN]

Another way FE10 Sothe is balanced is that after Part one, the Dawn Brigade are all but forgotten about until ENDGAME!! Can't be a broken unit if you can't use them for 80% of the game!!!!!!

[@rudolflc1684]

Till the Jagen is basically the Lord in Fe4

[@rontheauraknight9606]

I mean if Sigurd isn’t the Jagen, you can also argue that Quan is a jagen too

[@gabrielemblem605]

@@rontheauraknight9606 Sigurd is a Jagen because he falls of hard in mid game 😂

[@rontheauraknight9606]

@@gabrielemblem605 what you kidding Sigurd is such a good jagen, he gets white hot by the midgame

[@kwayke9]

Who needs a Jagen when you cen BE the Jagen yourself?

[@gabrielemblem605]

@@kwayke9 To be Jagen or to be Est that is te question

[@lunaproc4913]

You have no idea how painful the early game is in 3H due to the fact that all your starting units are growth reliant. Having Jeralt being able to deal good damage and debuff enemies for easy kills for the others would’ve been so useful.

[@ryangallagher9723]

Catherine plays the role of a Jagen just fine. She's super strong, super fast, isn't made of glass like other powerhouses such as Lysithea, and can be recruited as early as Chapter 4 once Byleth reaches level 9 (assuming you managed to get your support rank with her up to C+). Plus, she has the added benefit of having decent growth rates. With 75% HP, 60% Strength, 25% Magic, 40% Dexterity, 75% Speed, 30% Luck, 30% Defence, 15% Resistance, and 30% Charm, her growth rates are nothing to sneeze at. Some of them leave a bit to be desired, but she's got good growths where it counts. With those growths complementing her absurdly high bases, Catherine has the benefit of not falling off later in the run (assuming you don't bench her, of course). When equipped with Thunderbrand, Catherine will almost certainly be able to ORKO all generic enemies on the earlygame maps and even do the same to most bosses. Unfortunately, there's that little wrinkle of her not being easily available to Black Eagles players; she only joins you in Silver Snow after the timeskip, and if you're playing Crimson Flower, you can't get her at all. (Jeralt should've been recruitable, though. It's a travesty that he isn't.)

[@pn2294]

What’s worse is that they could’ve used the excuse of being attached to the class because they’re still inexperienced

[@D.Dragon]

While Catherine as a Jagen seems at least plausible in theory, even if you do manage to recruit her as early as possible around chapter 4, that’s probably still too late - by that point you’ve already done most of the difficult earlygame maps and the need for an early prepromote is lower since your other units are no longer as terrible as they are for the first few chapters.

[@theghostcreator776]

I like how Fates's Jagen is just a rock

[@maninthetrenchcoat5603]

I'd love to see your essay on whenever you discuss Armor Knights. They are a flawed class that is designed to not be able to fulfill its role. Armor Knights are meant to act as a human shield to protect the other weaker units. Despite that, they have so little movement that they can't get anywhere and lag behind everyone. You have to sacrifice the use of a cavalier or your Jaegen to carry over the knight so it can be used. How can you fix this issue? Well the answer is simple. Since the Knight is usually at the back of the pack, give them a skill that allows them to traverse through the other units as a terrain that doesn't take up a movespace. They can pass through the rest of your units so they can pop out to stand at the front. It's kind of like a continuous chain of rescue trading but without wasting the use of all your units.

[@bobosmith101]

Jeigan being arguably one of the best balanced Jagens is terrifying.

[@thereaIitsybitsyspider]

Three Houses "Jagen" is getting Catherine early.

[@ryangallagher9723]

*cries in Black Eagles*

[@AraiiarA]

Naga bless Titania. PoR was my first Fire Emblem, I got almost everyone killed and she still carried me to the finish line. And she was the reason I found out I'm bisexual. Absolute giga chad unit

[@totidoki05]

She is the reason i love strong women. And red haired. And the reason i got fucked by a woman, absolute unit.

[@ActionCow69]

Incredibly based, she's not how I found out I like other women but lord it doesn't hurt

[@lpants0]

Jeralt being playable seems perfect because of the personal skill and because of the story. But they probably just wanted to focus on students primarily over the adults.

[@lpfan4491]

Three Houses:"What if I had a jagen....but he never actually joins? That would be brilliant!"

[@BigMastah79]

Having Jeralt in Three Houses would be SOOOOOOOOO GOOD, like UGH, seriously, you either take everything at Snail’s Pace, or you get obliterated.

[@irlShively]

Combat arts kinda op early game tho that's what carried me through early game 3h. Tempest lance giving +8 might was doubling my characters' damage most of the time

[@ericamborsky3230]

Honestly, I like the way thay Jeralt was killed. Canonicaly, Jeralt is an extremely skilled knight, even if gameplay says otherwise. If you want a very skilled knight dead, you do not have someone challenge them to a duel or take them head on in a fair fight. What you do is rely on deceit and take them by surprise.

[@chrisk1039]

@@ericamborsky3230 Late to the party on this, but I would've found it more interesting if they had Jeralt actively showing that he was a badass that couldn't be taken head on, before just showing him get killed by the element of surprise. LIke most of what you see with him is him being suicidal as all hell as a green unit, then getting assassinated. If the plan was 100% to have him get killed, then have him arrive and show him fighting the death knight or something before the death knight leaves, that would be a cool animation they could've done; paint him as an actual badass don't just tell us he's one

[@tuanorton]

Next game will have a wyvern lord Jagen

[@ProfessorBopper]

Based

[@Juan-zs6jt]

Well, you can reclass Jagen or Arran to Wyvern in Shadow Dragon and New Mystery respectively.

[@ianleather5699]

Oifey is one the best designed Jeigens/Oifeys, because he's comparatively amazing if the child units you got are weak, but just decent if you got optimal pairings. He does his job of helping weaker units without breaking the game

[@RandalfElVikingo]

He is also a good support unit late game.

[@ianleather5699]

@bob ross Oifey is good, but isn't considered as good as Titania or Seth because generally, Seliph, Ares, and plenty of other units in gen 2 are likely stronger than him. Oifey is strong, but you'd have more trouble soloing the game with him than you would with Seth

[@AlexaRobin21]

@bob ross Jagen (the character) has better lategame viability than Oifey (the character).

[@shytendeakatamanoir9740]

Also, one great fact about him is the fact he start with the Iron Cutter, allowing him to get rid of the early bosses (since they could be a real pain otherwise for your early units.)

[@louiesatterwhite3885]

​@@ianleather5699 I don't know if you can solo FE4 with oifey. The last couple of chapters will just sleep-lock him

[@ryangallagher9723]

Hardline Traditionalist: "Jagen is a Jagen." Growths Neutral, Class Purist: "Oifey is a Jagen." Growths Rebel, Class Purist: "Seth is a Jagen." Growths Purist, Class Neutral: "Gunter is a Jagen." True Neutral: "Frederick is a Jagen." Growths Rebel, Class Neutral: "Sigurd is a Jagen." Growths Purist, Class Rebel: "Dagdar is a Jagen." Growths Neutral, Class Rebel: "Sothe is a Jagen." Radical Jagen Anarchist: "Jakob is a Jagen."

[@Aquilenne]

Total Anarchist: "Dedue is a Jagen"

[@ryangallagher9723]

@@Aquilenne Well, he's the closest thing Three Houses has to a Jagen (not counting Catherine). He's very useful in earlygame Maddening Mode because of his tankiness. It doesn't matter that he's so slow that he gets doubled by everything, because zero times two is still zero. If you want someone to get punched in the face four times and not even blink, Dedue is your man. Plus, his decent strength combined with his low speed means that he can be used to put enemies within kill range of your other units so they can get that kill EXP. I'd say that total anarchy would be thinking that someone like Caspar is a Jagen.

[@jacksonportnoff841]

Kinda surprised that FE3 Arran didn't get a mention. Paladin is far from a win button in FE3. As early as Chapter 2 you have to face off against promoted Wyvern Knights. While Arran can easily mop-up the rest of earlygame, even he doesn't do much damage to the Wyverns. The only units who can really do damage to them are Steel Bow Gordin and Linde, giving incentive to dump EXP into them so they can level Strength and Speed. Then in Chapter 4 he gets replaced by Sirius and his roll of carrying you through earlygame is over. Even Sirius isn't perfect. FE3's dismount feature makes Paladins awful indoors. Since FE3 endgame is entirely indoors, it gives you plenty of incentive to early growth units.

[@ProfessorBopper]

I mostly didn’t comment too much since FE3 Book 2 was the game I was least familiar with when I made the video (I’ve played FE3 again since). Outside of indoor maps, I do think Arran lasts long enough to be one of your better units until the midgame even though he gets overshadowed by Sirius and Palla. Plus, star shards exist if you really want to make him good long term, so I would probably rate him a little higher than you do. Otherwise, I do agree with you and I think Arran is a good template for the Jagen archetype (and screw those chapter 2 wyverns!)

[@kobyma2]

Never mind Sirius, you get Catria in chapter 2 and Palla in chapter 3, and they're utterly broken.

[@boredomkiller99]

Yeah Arran isn't awful and the existence of shards can help him fix growths but Paladins are not the god tier class they were in fe1 and the game gives you so many broken units. Plus promotional items are available really early allowing for the unpromoted units to catch up and surpass him quickly and weapon ranks the big boon of many Jagens doesn't exist in fe3

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

I think Jagens are balanced around new players playing the game, and permadeath. Jagens are going to be doing the most dangerous work in the game, and facing the mist powerful foes. Jagens are balanced by the fact that they are a character that is likely to be lost at some point. That fact is lost now that everyone just always resets, but the intent, I think, is there.

[@CaptainAstronaut]

Great Video! And yeah, FE3H Maddening w/ no Jagen is rough. The closest thing you have is Byleth, just because they have reliable growhs. My main strategy for most of my Maddening Silver Snow run was "hope Byleth crits"

[@midnightcowboi8193]

I think another problem connected to this is how the weapon triangle works early game. Most early maps have enemies with only one or two weapon types. This discourages players from using some of their more standard units, depending on the map, while Jagens can basically solo any map no matter who the enemies are, because they dominate the weapon triangle. Early-game 3H basically has this problem three-fold; since 3H has no weapon triangle, none of your units have any real strengths & everyone feels useless. If the early game maps had enemies across the weapon triangle, there'd be a lot more room for Jagens & the rest of the party to play off each other. It would be a bit more brutal, since this makes the weapon triangle harder for the player to exploit, but it would encourage players to use their roster more effectively & prepare them more for the challenges in the late-game.

[@mcihay246]

I would agree with this... If only that the original Jagen in FE1 and FE3 already fulfills his purpose whilst the Weapon Triangle didn't exist. Which wasn't added as a mechanic until FE4 (In which I'm sure you knew?). So it's not that Jagens are only really useful when there's a weapon triangle. I will agree though that without a Jagen, most players would rely on turtling to get through the early game. Especially in higher difficulties. Which can be a rather boring and slow experience for many.

[@ohandthefracking]

@@mcihay246 you kinda turtle in early FE11 H5 and FE12 lunatic either way

[@mcihay246]

@@ohandthefracking Exactly why I didn't mention them. I had specifically stated FE1 and FE3. Although that may not be a good example, let's look at a game that's hard despite it having only a base difficulty. As a means of a fair comparison to getting challenge, without necessarily requiring the player to turtle. Thracia 776 has the game start with three Jagens. Finn, Eyvel, and Dagdar. All having the capacity to reliably kill, capture, or chip the opponent for your other characters to improve. Binding Blade has Marcus, a fantastic Jagen that can also help to chip to train those of a lower ranking, or kill those that endanger those who are weaker. 7 with Marcus again, 8 with Seth, 9 with Titania, 10 with Sothe, etc etc. All these characters have in common, is for the player to have a backup means to be their personal Delete button. That's what makes these characters so useful and a godsend. The issue nowadays... Is that Jagens are becoming less useful as IntSys relies on adding more enemies with inflated stats as a means to create more of a challenge. Where the more effective, and more common way, would be to turtle your way to the end... Hopefully this trend doesn't continue for a potential remake of the older games like Thracia 776. Otherwise...

[@ohandthefracking]

@@mcihay246 i guess you are not wrong Jagens 3ds-nowadays era REALLY fell off and while im fine with not getting someone like Sigurd/FE7 Marcus/Seth...jagen arctetype character should fall off once theres really a time when enemies stats are comparable to his

[@mcihay246]

@@ohandthefracking Although, I do have to say that Sigurd and Seliph were a different case. As you would know, Kaga was an apt supporter of those playing his games by iron manning them. Sigurd and Seliph both were created that way to account for the fact that the game has two generations of characters. Which limited the cast by a lot knowing that it had to be split into two. The Lords had to pick up the slack based on the limitations, since characters aren't added consistently from beginning to end due to said limitations. Unlike the other games in the series. Seliph is a special case, as he had to be much stronger to guarantee that the game can be completed with substitutes.

[@grayshores5264]

Me who has only played Fates and Three Houses: Yeah sure I understand.

[@Arkensius1157]

Your profile picture is New Year Camilla from Heroes!

[@grayshores5264]

@@Arkensius1157 Yeah! Your Dorothea from Three Houses.

[@Jrpg_guy]

I played more, but yeah

[@nobro6971]

Same here, but I’ve played awakening too, so I’m essentially a FE god

[@langleysenterprise5134]

Eh played all 3 gba games, hoo boy. Seth hasn't fallen of his horse yet

[@ssnowprince6381]

Blue lions: Dedue just go wait in everyone's range Golden deer: Professor play nice with Catherine so we can have them help us please Black eagles: Profuse crying

[@PineappleLiar]

Imagine a version of fe3h chapter 5 where you get a controllable Geralt as a one-time ally instead of Gilbert. Yeah, that’s the stuff.

[@oomsou5018]

Having a Jagen die or be forced off your team by the game is an interesting idea. It might not be balanced but it does kinda get the message to the player or most likely newer players that you can’t rely on this one character to carry you through the game, so you have to actually think and use other characters. Though that also could be a very bad idea. But idk I kinda like the idea. Though yeah the best Jagens are the ones you can use without completely snapping the game in half.

[@ckenshin3841]

To add on to the Sothe being a well balanced Jeigan, an aspect that is interesting because he is a Rogue are locked doors and chests. Most often chests tend to be in far corners of the map, which definitely makes sense to send Sothe to get them with his higher move, and with his higher stats he should usually have no problem dealing with the enemies on his own, but it also lowers the overall power of your main army now that he isn't with them. So now you have to make an additional decision. "Do I send Sothe to get these chests, even if it may involve splitting him from the main army?"

[@Alex-xy4lc]

Really enjoyed this video, one of the chilliest videos I've seen on the topic. Volume was quite low tho but I'm sure you've fixed that already

[@ProfessorBopper]

Yeah, I’ve since bought a better mic and it honestly hurts hearing this low, fuzzy audio now

[@maagic2031]

Answer: it dont

[@justcallmexen]

Sothe as a Jagen sounds perfect, now if he wasn't made a required unit in the endgame... as for the rest, I played the English GBA titles and I use Seth and Marcus for rescuing, visiting houses, trading with characters, giving the steel sword to the lords to save uses of the rapier sometimes, etc. I then bench them when I can to bring lower level units into fights before reintroducing them later whenever I feel enemy units are powerful enough to warrant it, as well as early arenas, as foes in there are scaled to whoever enters, meaning tougher opponents and higher exp gain. Use higher level units for arenas to come out ahead in exp as opposed to weaker ones!

[@alexisbaz8746]

In my case I bench de Jagen quite fast, sometimes he is just to powerfull at the begining, In my Conquest playtrought I used Jackob a lot until I finally promote his son, the bad thing is he messed up my Kana Grow Rate and Stats...

[@AlexaRobin21]

Think of Sothe as a free deployment slot that you can use to open chest or search for treasure. If not, then putting him out of the way isn't a problem.

[@justcallmexen]

@@AlexaRobin21 I was two seconds away from commenting on this video with basically the same comment before seeing... I already did a year ago. Instead, I'll just reply here and say that having a unit to steal and open chests is nice but... then the other thief is redundant and someone you never want to bring. You still can bring her along, I think you can bring anyone if you set your mind to it early enough. If I ever get the game again, I'd love to make up a bunch of runs with differing final teams, like all dawn brigade, all paladins, all blue haired characters, all priests, all siblings, etc.

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

I knew the "Don't use Jagens!" was BS the first time I played FE6 hard mode back in 2003 or whenever. Marcus made it smooth sailing.

[@ryangallagher9723]

It's OK to use Jagens, but you shouldn't be over-reliant on them. They're good for babying your other units by getting enemies into kill range so they can get experience, they're decent bosskillers when you don't have access to any other strong units, and they're useful for accomplishing difficult tasks that involve taking on hordes of enemies. When I played FE7 a year ago on an emulator, I mostly used Marcus as a tent guard. He's so strong that he can easily solo all the enemy reinforcements the game likes to throw at Merlinus, plus their supports are pretty fun. They even have a paired ending together. (Also, you played FE6 in 2003? I find that hard to believe unless you live in Japan and/or can read Japanese. FE7 came out that same year, and it was the first Fire Emblem game to be localized, so I highly doubt there were any high-quality patches of the game available. But what do I know? I shouldn't talk about a time period when I was still in diapers.)

[@boredomkiller99]

I don't use Jagens. Plays Fe6 hard mode. Marcus is now my best friend. Seriously fe6 hard mode makes everyone change their minds on Jagens.

[@lpfan4491]

Marcus straight up can just solo the first two chapters of FE6, even if he minorly struggles.

[@RandalfElVikingo]

@@ryangallagher9723 I played GB games on japanese back in the late 90's lol You don't even need to understand the language, just take the GBA Pokémon games as an example: the first online/pirate versions were on japanese.

[@SnowballK4T]

Not only FE12 Prologue and FE16 lack a Jeigan, Fire Emblem Gaiden and Echoes neither have one. Not that it ever presents a problem, as Alm stats are superior of early-game brigands right off the bat. I love that the game taunts you with Mycen, but he doesn't join until almost the end of the game, having busted bases and very low growths. He is a Jeigan in story but a Gato in gameplay. I think it's cool to look at how post-Fire Emblem Kaga games do their Jeigans, as the main series has proven to not be effective at balancing them, especially from FE7 onwards. Vestaria Saga has nothing resembling a Jeigan; TearRing Saga zigzags this trope a lot, as you have a non-playable story Jeigan and a high-stat but very low move pirate from the beggining, but has it's closest to a traditional Jeigan in Raffin, an early-game paladin with mediocre growths. He is more akin to Awakening Frederic, what means that he's stats are not especially over the top and he can be surpassed, but can use pretty good weaponry (coming with a Killer lance that I think no one else can use at that time) and hold thanks to good mobility and the rare ability to use lances indoors. He, however, gets very ridiculous if you do a kind of obscure side-objective in Chapter 10, which let's him promote to Wyvern Rider and remain extremely useful for the remainder of the game. Overall he's one of the best units in the game, but the experience with him can greatly differ if you trigger that event. But what I think it's the far best example is Ward from Berwick Saga. Ward comes from the first chapter with bases that let him defend himself against enemies on the final chapter without gaining a single level, but it's still one of the best balanced ever. How is it possible? By the game mechanics themselves. Firstly, Berwick Saga doesn't have a "double attacks" as in Fire Emblem fashion. The flow of battle dictates that units attack, if they miss the enemy gets a chance to counterattack, and if the enemy misses its counterattack the unit strikes again. Ward is not an exception to this rule, meaning he will very rarely one-round enemies, unless he one shots them or crit. The Pursuit skill is present, but only in two characters and he is not one of them. On the other hand, Ward has the advantage of being capable of using high-level weapons, such as the Knight Sword he comes with, which adds another round of combat, like the Charge skill in Thracia 776. Secondly, he is only present in Primary missions and two mandatory side-stories, which are only 17 out of the more than 40 maps. Desptie being the Jeigan and appearing on Chapter 1, he is one of the least availible characters in your rooster. Coindidentally, Primary missions are usually the most intrincate, so he can help a great deal on those chapters holding off enemies left and right. Thirdly, his movement type. Berwick is a very terrain-heavy game, and he is classified as "Cavalry", which grants him 7 move on a horse, but very harsh terrain penalties that other units of "Light Cavalry" movement type do not have. Furthermore, when he is dismounted, he suffers similar penalties but with only 4 move. This makes him useless in some maps, such as the later part of Chapter 11-1 (a mandatory side-story) and Chapter 14, and hampers his utility in many more; whereas he is one of the most mobile units in plainer maps. He also fulfills his role as Jeigan by having the Guard skill, that allows him to shield an adjacent unit of incoming attacks, being redirected to him instead, which is useful during the entire game but on the first few chapters particularly. In genera, I think Ward is one of the best crafted Jeigan characters in Fire Emblem, even if he is not strictly in the series.

[@BeautifulGaston]

I love Ward! He always comes in clutch and hes got some handsome facial hair, and I like his involvement in the story. Berwick needs more love

[@SnowballK4T]

@@BeautifulGaston Definately. TearRing and Berwick are my favorites in the "series"

[@absoul112]

Maybe this is just me, but I find using overpowered (or strong at base) characters to be a diminishing return on fun.

[@ProfessorBopper]

I agree with that in most cases. Unless your trying to do a challenge run like an LTC or 0% growths, units like Seth or Titania definitely can make the games a lot less fun

[@Juan-zs6jt]

@@ProfessorBopper What if it is fun for me to see the Jagens wreck the maps? Would then your definition of fun would be invalid? It is entirely subjective.

[@ProfessorBopper]

@@Juan-zs6jt that’s why I said “can” make the games a lot less fun rather than “will,” because it is entirely subjective, both positions are valid, and will depend on mood/preferences

[@Juan-zs6jt]

@@ProfessorBopper Fair enough.

[@owarida6241]

Theee houses: no Jagen? Me with my army of archers: no sire

[@AlexaRobin21]

Jagen are pretty good at tricking noobs that they aren't good.

[@DiogoJ1]

They usually aren't good, no. Noobs or no. Most of them are average at best.

[@kurosan0079]

@@DiogoJ1 High movement, canto, and weapon triangle dominance sounds pretty good to me. Sure, they typically fall off late (except for Titania and the absolutely busted Seth), but their utility is among the best out there. The only thing they can't do is fly.

[@DiogoJ1]

@@kurosan0079 Not good enough to make up for their lack of growths. And Jagen doesn't even have Canto nor WTA dominance. If they could fly, all that would give me is a weakness to bows most of the time, as if they need lesser tanking ability.

[@kurosan0079]

​@@DiogoJ1 Their lack of growths is completely made up by them not needing exp and promotion items in order to be good. Essentially needing zero investments to be the best units at the start of the game that can still be useful up until mid-late game. They're not the best combat units once everyone is all decked up, sure, but the reason those units become useful anyway is because you can set up safe and easy kills by using your Jagen. Not to mention, keeping your lords safe. And what do you mean no canto and weapon triangle dominance? Jagens can move again after trading which is a much more useful thing than you might realize. Combined with one of the highest movement stats, that's a very useful combination. And don't get me started with their typically high weapon levels and most of them making use of more than one weapon type (since most Jagens are Paladins). They can use Silver weapons at Chapter 1. That's super useful. I get that they fall off late in the game and get left behind in terms of combat, but they still have some utility with trade, canto and rescue-drop strats. And one more important thing is that they're available to you at the START of the game.

[@DiogoJ1]

@@kurosan0079 Their bases are pretty low for their level though. 11 SPD for a lv 1 Paladin is just a shame. I get better results by leveling a cavalier. Their utility isn't good enough for me to use them over most growth units.

[@somederp8915]

7:05: Something feels off... Why is Claude upside-down?

[@RobotnikPlngas]

He us Australian

[@mibrahim5053]

I slept on Gunter in conquest. His personal skill makes him the best pairup partner and reclassing him to wyvern makes him a great ferry. Pairup bonuses + personal + movement boost = great unit. He will fall off combat wise but his utility will always stay good and thats what i like about him.

[@bens5093]

Plus rally defense is always good. And ironically, his low res means that he's good bait for freeze/enfeeble lol

[@murarmight]

Your videos are so good! I’m having an amazing time watching these essays

[@jonathann.5754]

"we'll take a look at the 2 fire emblem games without a Jaegan: new mystery of the emblem prologue and 3 houses" Gaiden/Echoes: Am I a joke to you?

[@april5767]

Lightning Sword is the jagen in gaiden

[@AlejandroRodolfoMendez]

Solid video, I like how this was a civilized and calm argument, with a lot of sense.

[@Rmuda]

I feel like a tanky Sniper would be an ideally balanced Jagen by your standards, as it would limit their effectiveness on EP while letting them pick off dangerous units safely, and would fall off later by virtue of being bowlocked compared to alternatives, especially if you balance bow units by giving them bonuses that you can just exclude the Jagen from. Limiting reclasses with the justification of the character being too old and stubborn to change would help with this too. With Sothe, I think it's also important to note that even when he is the best combat unit, he always has things to do that encourage you to use other units. For example in 1-3 the boss has the Discipline scroll but with his high movement you'll want to kill him in one turn or you'll likely lose a unit and get a Game Over. Micaiah is usually just strong enough to oneshot him with the Thani, provided she's levelled up a little, and that reinforces her own utility and makes the player feel smart. 1-5 gives you the choice of keeping him with the rest of the party, or sending him right to steal a Master Seal, and as the rest of your party is likely to struggle against those enemies, including your new recruit Volug due to his Fire weakness, you have an interesting choice to make that also lets Volug show just how strong he is if you choose to separate Sothe from the party, especially as the game punishes you for not using him by giving Jill a credible chance of death on Turn 1 if he doesn't kill an enemy only he can reach. Neither of these are essential items, but the act of getting to them is used to test and teach the player excellently. RD has some of my favourite map design in any FE game thanks to these sorts of things, even with its faults and stumbles.

[@Champs-ek7lh]

You missed what I think could be a crucial balancing mechanic: availability. As soon as the player might not need their Jagen, take him away for plot reasons for 2 maps. When they come back, the player will be used to operating without them and the other units’ stats will guaranteed to have grown in relation to the Jagen.

[@flippyflapperson872]

Sothe is one of my favorite characters in Fire Emblem. The concept of having the weakest, almost joke unit in FE9 become a Jeigan and pseudo-lord in FE10 was a very interesting bit of character development. Also, even as he begins to fall off stat-wise he still has some unique utility. In Part 3, he can have one of your strongest player phases due to the Beastkiller - but you don't want to leave him exposed on enemy phase because of his frailty, so there's a trade-off. He also helps with visibility in the Fog of War chapter. In Part 4, he's still useful for finding treasures in the desert even though he's totally fallen off combat-wise. I also like that he's forced into The Tower, not because he's a great unit at that point, but because Yune knows how deep Micaiah's bond with him is.

[@MrMatthias]

I see this video in my recommendations all the time, and the thumbnail makes me laugh every time

[@raynmanshorts9275]

It's fascinating to think that there is not only a meta for a single-player game, let alone a series, but that meta has evolved over time, even for the older games.

[@Rengor1997]

>New Mystery prologue lacks a jeigan Athena, Ogma and Cain want to: know your location Though admittedly all of those are missable - stupid differentiating prologue maps. That said prologue 8 can be cleared regardless.

[@ProfessorBopper]

The way I see it, the problem isn’t so much whether or not the chapter can be cleared, but how it teaches players to approach lunatic and lunatic reverse. For many casual players, prologue 8 teaches you to turtle and play slow even though the game is often more fun (and easier!) when played a bit faster. Also, thanks for the comment! I’ve been watching some of your blue lions maddening 0% growths lately and it’s absolutely mind boggling

[@sunshineyon00]

Cool video. I always had a warped view of jagens. It seems the relevant context of their power level has always been powerful. I've always looked at raw stats and growth relative to the other units in a vacuum.

[@ManOfUnknownWorth]

I admit that I am one of those people who play the games wrong as I am very stingy with my gold (I hardly ever use silver weapons and stick with iron for longer than I should) and use characters who end up with higher numbers rather than those with immediate power. I have never gone for low turn counts and always avoid using Jeigans as much as possible (even benching Seth). With that being said, I do understand the value Jeigans have and how tiering works. I would say an armored Jeigan (but not mounted like Fredrick) would be not be too bad of an idea for, as someone already has mentioned, said character would still be outclassed late-game no matter how strong that character is due to the nature of such characters. I have wanted a armored mage for quite some time, but someone noted how a magic Jeigan would be broken and how a slow spellcaster is just wrong. I know it would not be a good idea, but having an armored mage with good power and bulk while being molasses slow and having terrible Luck and Resistance (sort of like Balthus with Raphael's Speed & Resistance, Dedue's HP, and Edelgard's Magic) would be fun. Unfortunately, that would be too broken to ever happen.

[@ProfessorBopper]

I would like that magic Jagen because different things can be fun. And, no, you're not playing the game wrong! If growing units from zero to hero is your jam, then keep on keeping on

[@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502]

Seth has the seventh highest growth rates in fe8. Even if you enjoy growth units more, there's still no reason to bench him

[@ManOfUnknownWorth]

@@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502 Seth still rarely caps anything. He's also no fun to use because of how strong he is. I'm the type to avoid using the Laguz royals due to their busted nature.

[@TerranMarauder]

It seems like everyone can learn from this video, regardless of experience! Keen to see more

[@Masterblader158]

Sothe is only as balanced as he is due to the weirdness of his game and the army he babysits being well the Dawn Brigade and the other armies providing such good units for end game, I think the skill route might be best with giving your Early game power house balance. Like Oifey, may technically be mid game, being given more support skills while the kids get better offensive tools would balance him out more than just shortening the time he is ahead of so many units with allocating his starting stats out better, lower growths and others gaining mounts more consistently in the eventual remake...both should be done.

[@aqualord364]

Honestly I'm quite fine with Oifey as is. I'm not as familiar with FE4 gen 2 though so I could be wrong, but Oifey gets outclassed pretty quickly and overall is a good shield to building up your baby killing machines like Larcei/Ulster, as well as being a really nice crutch if you get bad child units or substitutes. Enemies come in such hoards in the game that Oifey always has use in a given skirmish by having passable stat, but can't really truck the game as he doesn't have anything particularly dangerous. Though supportive skills would definitely be a welcome addition (though probably something other than Charm because enough units get that)

[@level-up3662]

Seems like the algorithm is leading us here, and I'm personally all for it. Good video lad.

[@BestDayEvor]

How do you only have 700 subs??? Your channel is awesome! keep it up!

[@ProfessorBopper]

I only had about 60 last Saturday, so 700 makes me feel rich! Thanks for the comment 🙏

[@geekyriolu2551]

Your content's so good! You definitely are deserving of more subscribers!

[@adamhurd1560]

Definitely think you hit the nail on the head with Sothe being the best balanced Jagen. He's super strong early game and remains useful throughout but can't be relied upon late game. I think it would be really cool to see a mage Jagen character, one that starts out super strong but essentially becomes a staff bot late game. I think Jagens need to have that extra utility for late game because otherwise people will just feel punished for using them, meaning making them thieves or mages with staff usage is perfect. Don't think there's another class that can do this unless FE starts introducing some new unique skills for other classes.

[@LMANPAD]

This was a really nice video. Imma hit the sub button

[@Kryptnyt]

Tear Ring Saga has some very well balanced Jagens that play their role early on and meet your army's strengths as the game goes on. Or, in the case of one, throws you for a loop.

[@mikaelamonsterland]

i have learned more in this video than anything else I've seen about this series

[@VangolaGear]

I think Engage, which has just been released a few weeks ago, has a really good Jagen in Vander. He has just enough defensive presence to soak up a couple blows without dying, just enough offensive presence to soften up targets for your other characters to finish them off, his exp growth is abysmal so you feel no progress by getting him kills early, paladins have only 6 move and 1 weapon type compared to other entries, and his growths are trash.

[@TriAzF]

I agree completely, Vander is in such a perfect position that he is really powerful in the first say 6 chapters without being able to solo them, and then becomes mediocre and then bad at just the right times since by that point you’ve gotten your other units up and recruited mid game fairly powerful units that you don’t need him anymore.

[@tahamohammad8842]

@@TriAzFthe only major issue I have with vander is that he still gets new supports with characters who you get as late as lindon, far past the point where he’s just flat out bad. It basically requires that you use the recreational facilities like the pool and stable to get those remaining supports finished.

[@tezereth]

It's easy to get support outside of battle to be frank.

[@UnluckyAmulet]

Ah Titania, my first Jagen. I love her.

[@Sianostrakarenrenren]

"Three Houses lacks a Jagen." *Laughs in Lysithea/Hilda*

[@FlamingZelda3]

"This is booty bopper" *slowly clicks away from video*

[@revivalfromruins]

I think you underrated Gunter somewhat. For anyone considering using Gunter, it's absolutely vital that you reclass him to Wyvern Lord as soon as his chapter begins and have him gain 3 levels so he learns Rally Defense - as strange as it seems, Gunter levels very fast and Corrin is likely to not earn that much EXP from the enemies here anyway so there's no real loss giving the kills to him. Gunter actually rejoins with stats somewhat similar to a level 20/5 Beruka without any form of training, although that falls off in just a couple of chapters and his speed is pretty abyssmal. Gunter is however a very good Attack Stance user if you need additional offense, but is generally more useful for having Shelter on a flying body (mostly for Azura Shelter Dance tricks) and Rally Defense at a very early level. It's really common for most people to just use Gunter as a backpack and it works, but he honestly has much more to offer than that. (Only talking about Conquest because lol Rev)

[@TheLaXandro]

I just did a playthrough of randomised Sacred Stones that reclassed Seth as a General with comparably low growths and notably low HP, both base and growth. Even with the fact that I only ended up getting three mounted units in the entire playthrough (of which Kyle and Forde were both troubadours), he still managed to remain balanced throught, falling off as offensive and even defensive threat but doing crowd control better than anything.

[@tehrik0020]

The world was not prepared for the level of violence Seth was about to bring on the battlefield.

[@jacobtamminga5560]

Great video! I fell into the same trap as you with titania in por

[@bubbleodyssey3305]

Thank you KZbin algorithm

[@AshenDust_]

I wish Three Houses had a Jaigen so that I wouldn’t have to deal with the first few chapters in maddening

[@ultimateblade3767]

I've always loved that Seth is one of the best characters, probably because my name is Seth.

[@FriendCrezno]

I like this. Good stuff my dude.

[@nahte123456]

So one unit I think you should have mentioned was Fates Jakob. He has good enough stats to be a Jagen, his Class perfectly lets him support other units along with his Healing, and if all else fails he works great with Corrin.

[@TotallyCluelessGamer]

I thought the term for Seth and Titania was technically Oifey. It's a term for a unit who follows the Jagen story beat and high starting stats, but doesn't ever fall off.

[@boredomkiller99]

Technically yes but this term is used less because the distinction between Jagens and Oifey was only made since Jagens were thought to fall off and generally considered bad after a while. But since in 2020 we all realize most Jagens bad growths are not enough to truly cripple them the term Oifey is used a lot less as the distinction doesn't matter as much.

[@TotallyCluelessGamer]

@@boredomkiller99 sorry for taking so long to respond. I personally think that units like Seth, FE7 Marcus, and Titania, or really any Starting Paladin post FE3(not including the remakes, so literally everyone but Jagen and Arran), deserve a different moniker due to how much better they are as units. Jagen starts out very good thanks to his Silver Lance and can be made into a solid taxi, but his combat ability starts to fall into question later on, to me that's him falling off since he goes from being a powerhouse to being a taxi, and if I want a taxi, I would prefer one that doesn't need a miracle to get stronger each level up. Then Arran is in an even worse place in my opinion, due to how early(especially in the remake) Sirius joins you. Now you could say that it's a pitfall to bench a unit just because you got an objectively superior unit of the same type. However, FE3 is not shy at all about giving you tons of cavalry(especially in the remake), and I don't feel like I need two prepromoted paladins that early in the game, especially when there are so many potential replacements eagerly waiting for their chance to roll the dice, and I already have Sirius around to babysit harder than Arran could ever aspire to. Compare this to Seth, or FE7 Marcus. Both of them start with solid stats, and both of them host a set of growths strong enough to keep them more than relevant into the endgame unless you intentionally neglect them. In addition to that both of them also possess all of the incredible utility and perks that being a Paladin brings. To me, units like this really don't deserve to be represented by Jagen. So to me, it's not really that Jagen and Arran are necessarily "bad" it's more a case for how dominant virtually every other member of the club is.

[@coltonowens2742]

Sacred Seth is my favorite fire emblem.

[@xuanathan]

I find it really funny how Seth is a legitimately better balanced unit if he is literally carrying another person on his back

[@YuubiTimberwolf]

I learned to bench "Jagen" characters so others can grab the much needed EXP to get to a surviveable level, which "Jagen"s already have from the start. Later on, "Jagen"s return to the field when they are on an even level with others. And thats honestly how i played all games and had fun.

[@BagleNinja]

Good video! Personally if I had to pick I'd rather a powerful Jagen that works as a crutch for lower skill players to fall back on without punishing them late game, than something like House's no Jagen.

[@graemetang4173]

In games like hacks of randomized runs where I've had Jaigens that are promoted magic units, I've had a lot of fun using them. Magic generally makes them able to take out certain threats when needed, but not to steamroll entire maps with low defences, while staff utility means they will always be able to have some sort of niche.

[@sigmaklim2532]

Great video, this definitely earned you a subscriber in me!

[@brendanmckenna7613]

Great video

[@petrie911]

Nomad trooper (or equivalent) seems like a good option for a Jagen class. The melee utility can fall off quickly while the ranged chip and mobility remains useful much longer.

[@DNPsharp11]

Oh man, I just finally made it through the beginning of 3H maddening, and yeah it is real real rough. That chapter 5 in particular made me quit maddening when it first came out. This time around once I got to level 10 classes on all my characters the game got way easier, but everything up until then was just painful. I don't necessarily agree that throwing in Jeralt to rely on would have been the best way to fix the early game, though. Yes I'm sure it would have worked, but we've seen it so many times before. I don't know why they couldn't have just tuned the early maddening levels to be more on par with the rest of the game (even something as simple as not having Pass on the first few maps would make a huge difference). I would think the early maps would be the easiest to tune since your squad's strength is the most predictable at that point.

[@jonathanpeppin8564]

FE8 creators: oh shit, we totally forgot to do that

[@flight_knight_]

nice video i enjoyed it a lot. personally think all jaegans/oifye archetypes are balanced but I like your analysis. It would be nice if in future games they tried newer classes

[@lancercool1992]

Seth is my favorite character in the whole series, i didn't think it was hard to set up kills with him either

[@RobinDJoker]

Hmm, I feel like aside from Rogue, the best class for a Jagen to have would be Sniper or Swordmaster. Snipers and Swordmaster are best used for chipping enemies anyways, and the Swordmaster's crit would be solved by giving them two weapons: A Bronze Sword (which can't crit) for chipping enemies for weaker units, and a Killing Edge/Wo Dao/Silver Sword for when you need to take care of a particularly nasty threat

[@Juan-zs6jt]

Eyvel says hi.

[@scotchegg4268]

A defensively blessed, magic screwed sage.

[@RobinDJoker]

@@scotchegg4268 Nah, in an early game, most enemies have little, if any, Res. Even a Mag screwed Sage would be dealing tons of damage.

[@scotchegg4268]

I'm thinking 4-7 magic. It would make it possible for the jaigen to just fail to 1 round every enemy and gives staff utility.

[@RobinDJoker]

@@scotchegg4268 for that to work, you'd have to Spd screw them, since with the 0-1 Res most early game enemies have, they're still dealing 10-11 damage, so a double is a kill

[@Neonlight3934]

Going back to this is amazing how Vander fit everything except the good personal skill. If his personal was something like Yukimuras +5 universal hit he would be the best Jagen in the series.

[@wellingtonmcskellington4833]

Higher difficulties in 3H become a lot more fun when you have a ng+ Berni who oneshots anything you don't want to deal with thanks to Vengeance and early high wep rank.

[@jansolo4628]

The suggestion of alternative classes made something click for me. I have played Randomized Sacred Stones and Binding Blade where the Jagen wasn't a Paladin. I forgot what Seth randomized into but I remember Marcus becoming a Swordmaster. Guess what? They fulfilled the duty of being an early game powerhouse while not overshadowing my other units. While Seth remained strong, he ended up just being on-par with Eirika and Ephraim (granted, the randomizer I used allowed them to switch back to their normal classes upon getting the story promote) so he wasn't significantly stronger (and I didn't grind for either of the Lords). Marcus though? Remained useful until that really long map by Binding Blade's endgame (chapter 21?). Early game he shredded through normal enemies. Midgame he softened up bosses while being an okay dodge tank. Late game? At that point I had somehow gotten 5 Wyvern Lords and 2 Heroes that Marcus was finally worth replacing. Going back to the Sothe portion, I think having a Jagen that can still lend support despite having worse combat stats would be the best, like you said. I wouldn't even mind if they were only slightly worse than lightly trained late game growth units, so either growths fans or base stat enjoyers can have about equally useful units by end game (doubt this can happen though, but I can dream). One fun info about the Binding Blade Randomizer: Bors was my best unit because he had capped Defense AND Speed as a Wyvern Rider. Gave him that shield that removes archer weakness and sent him alone to take 0 damage and consistently double with javelins

[@BknMoonStudios]

Excellent video. Liked and subscribed. :)

[@tahamohammad8842]

11:41 even that’s not that big of an issue for frederick because one of his starting skills doubles the amount of weapon exp he’ll gain

[@MythrilZenith]

The 3ds era tried the Great Knight class as a balance to Jagens with the caveat that they have slightly less movement than Paladins and die to hammers as well as ridersbanes. This doesn't normally play a factor but every once in a while you encounter enemies on the hardest difficulties like in chapter 2 of Awakening where a rando with a hammer has a decent chance of 1-shotting the only unit who can survive most of the other attacks without a huge issue. If this is the method they are going with for balancing jagens then there needs to be more than one or two enemies in the game that pose a serious and unique threat though.

[@wesnohathas1993]

Three Houses takes your Jagen, locks him to being a green unit, and leaves him out of the chapters you need him most ...what? Even worse, there's one chapter where Jeralt can go full green unit and rush to the boss only to get himself killed, resulting in a loss.

[@ProfessorBopper]

That’s the worst! I hate how he can cause a game over on that chapter with no fault to the player

[@davidmatlock3149]

This is why I always just warp him back as far as I can. It's gotta be frustrating for him