How good are Turtle Ships? (AoE2)

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Analysis and discussion about the Korean unique unit: the Turtle Ship.
0:43 Historical inspiration
1:05 Changes over time
1:35 Stats and cost
2:50 Hidden armor
4:11 Upgrades
5:03 vs Galley line
5:55 vs Fire ships
7:30 vs Demo ships
8:08 vs Thirisadai, Caravel, Longboat
9:25 Combos with other naval units
12:25 Final thoughts
___________________________________________________________
Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsou...
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

"disgustingly OP" - Japanese review of the Turtle Ship, 1590s

[@EvilDoresh]

"Plz nerf" "This new ship meta sucks"

[@KimFareseed]

Patch Notes: -Turtle Ships nerfed, Admiral Yi has been dismissed.

[@a.nonimus6705]

​@@KimFareseedNext Patch Notes: Psyyyyych, Yi just wrecked your 100+ vessel fleet with 10 ships by luring you into a narrow channel against unfavorable currents Japanese: Hax. This game is broken. We're only playing land maps now

[@zaratrustamaster]

gotta love to imagine yi sun shin as an insanely skilled micro player, while the japanese general, hideyoshi, was that 'screw it, patrol in' type of player

[@SciFi2285]

"Pls make Chinese more noob friendly... I am low elo" - Ming Emperor, 1590s

[@chingamfong]

0:44 "Admiral Yi .... Yeeted Japanese battleships" I laughed way harder than i should

[@Hanfgurkenhasser]

I cannot believe I just heard this 40-something year old man unironically say that without chuckling. Amazing.

[@magossvinctus]

you might even say... he Yi-ted...

[@CrniWuk]

"A gentle yoink!" - Admiral Yi, ca. 1500.

[@Caiotus]

I had to go back and listen to it again after hearing it hahaha

[@SY-jd7dm]

@@Hanfgurkenhasserwait, Spirit is 40? He looks so young though.

[@paulreiter7015]

I think it would have been a good idea to include a bit on how turtle ships fare as anti-building (mainly towers and castles) ships because I've see the cannon projectile trip new players up into thinking they're replacements for the cannon galleon.

[@STevEKlm012]

That's a good point. Things like cannon galleon relies on it's range and bonus damage to destroy buildings, both of which turtle ship lacks.

[@truepietro]

You hit the point man!

[@Tocaraca]

If you have a large army of turtle ships (like 25+) and take control of the water you can easily take out a castle on the shoreline with them, despite their lack of bonus damage.

[@YuriXEstelle]

I really like the inclusion of historical facts for some context. I hope to see it in more unit overviews.

[@jjforcebreaker]

Shoutout to Spirit Of The Law, for continuing to make entertaining and informative videos.

[@LightKnight_Age_Of]

The ad in the end from SOTL is the only ad that I genuinely like to watch

[@michaelbird9148]

Yeah, genuinely creative and natural feeling with a very clear call-out at the start and end of the video. Great approach.

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

You forgot the most important buff the Turtle Ship got over the years : an AOC patch changed its appearance, it notably had a single-beam "tail" instead of the twin one, and was narrower.

[@EvilDoresh]

It was also overall more oval in shape, whereas the front and back of the more authentic-looking ship are "cut off"

[@Hemostat]

they really took the "turtle" part and ran with it

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

@@EvilDoresh indeed, to allow forward- and backward-facing cannons. I built a turtle ship in Space Engineers (called "Typhoon Serpent", it's on the Steam Workshop), on it I decided to have 2 forward guns. No rear ones, as I prefered using the room for a bigger broadside.

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

@@Hemostat they mainly rushed the design as Microsoft told them to add the Koreans 5 weeks before the deadline. The design of the Turtle Ship was fixed but the gameplay design of the civ is still in the air 24 years later.

[@AllahDoesNotExist]

​@@Duke_of_LorraineThat was to appease the Korean StarCraft players right

[@yuuumtheepic4118]

I bet 1000 dollars the next civ overview WONT be koreans. He knows we're growing complacent with these video predictions, and is gonna throw us for a loop. I personally support this, never let anybody know your next move Edit: FUCK

[@azurerider812]

See you next video

[@shizukousapostle1stapostle710]

But he already did that last time meaning he wants us to think that the next civ overview won't be Koreans but it will actually be Koreans and surprise us. We have already lost

[@Feuerpfeil369]

Ehm, sounds like a good bet :D

[@counterman-namreview516]

imagine Turtle Ship suddenly pack side way and start shooting ALL OF ITS SIDE CANNONS lmao

[@widodoakrom3938]

Too op

[@Showsni]

And then bust out their historically accurate sails to become the fastest naval unit too.

[@ersatzvitamin1]

BROADSIDE ATTACKKKKKK

[@bobjoe109]

That's age of empires 3 lol

[@robdenini6972]

Fun fact about Yi: he won every battle against the Japanese, never lost a single ship and, in his most famous battle, he was outnumbered 50 to 1 and still defeated the Japanese while losing like 5 sailors.

[@BayWa4eva]

have the japanese ever been a strong naval force though? if so then i have never heard of it.

[@MrDwarfpitcher]

The Japanese were strong in ww2. They also performed well against the Russian Baltic fleet which is a very fun story to look up

[@BayWa4eva]

@@MrDwarfpitcher thanks, i'll have a look at that

[@robdenini6972]

@@BayWa4eva They defeated numerous Korean fleets (when not under Yi's command) and were also known for their piracy during the middle ages

[@melissagrenier2200]

@@BayWa4eva I don't know but it'd be weird for an island nation to not have had a strong navy at any point wouldn't it?

[@fullmetalx225]

Serendipitous you posted about these ships and Yi Sun-sin while I've been reading the book Imjin War and came upon this passage: "On April 23 a small fishing boat was stopped in nearby waters and the two Japanese on board, a twenty-seven-year old calling himself Sogoro who "could read and write a little," and a forty-four-year old illiterate named Yosayemon, were arrested on suspicion of being spies. The two were brought before Yi Sun-sin, who interrogated them through an interpreter. This is what they said: We are natives of Izumo, Japan. On the 18th of this month we put out to sea in a small boat for fishing and were caught while adrift before a storm. We don't know very much about the daily activity or the way of espionage of the Japanese soldiery, but we heard that an order arrived from the homeland for evacuation of the Japanese armed forces from Korea before Third Moon regardless of victory or defeat, because during two years' stay in a foreign land the Japanese army suffered so many casualties. Therefore, the Japanese army here will go home as soon as its friendly battalions from the north will come to join it. Commander Yi, finding their words "cunning and vague," had them tortured, but no additional information could be extracted. He then ordered their arms and legs torn from their bodies. Finally they were put out of their misery by having their heads chopped off."

[@bionetik]

What a wholesome and uplifting anecdote

[@trex1448]

Fishermen all the way from Japan who randomly know I fo about Japanese war plans... right..

[@inioszi3053]

More historic references, even longer ones. I loved this one

[@FleishDawg]

I remember as a kid this unit just mystified me. What a cool looking gigantic boss battle unit - always reminded me of the Battlecruiser of Starcraft 1 at the time.

[@lollaloopa]

Remember when you got some turtle ships as an easter egg in the aztec campaign? It felt so magical to young me.

[@stylesrj]

@@lollaloopa A gift from the gods?

[@ersatzvitamin1]

​@lollaloopa Now, it just became looted cannon galleon

[@NicvB]

We need a food centric video so that the sponsorship can be for the website spirit of the slaw.

[@dokhanh1044]

Turtle ship has Dragon head since its sharpe may be not based Turtle but 귀부 (or Bixi in chinese). In mythology, Bixi is eldest child of Dragon with enormous strength allowing him to carry mountain on his shell Some versions said it should be turtle head but for psychological warfare, it is replace by dragon head en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bixi

[@peterkeleher]

very cool!

[@TheOhioNews]

8:24 amazingly, we just saw this matchup in Regicide Rumble 5 a couple hours ago, and a couple hours AFTER this video posted

[@Wuuj_]

Admiral Yi Soon Shin pulled some crazy shit with these back in the day. He really got treated horribly by the corrupt politicians and systems back in the day but he was a genuinely an unrivaled, wartime strategist, gigachad patriot that held off the entirety of Japanese Navy, once even outnumbered like 1 to 10. If he was an AOE player NOBODY would beat him in a water focused map.

[@CrnaStrela]

He was apparently never defeated, not even when he was a mere border officer. He becoming admiral was because of jealously of the other border officers and that position was more of an exile than promotion. Yet, he managed to fix the navy and became the sole reason why Hideyoshi couldn't invade Korean land. Bro's worst enemies are literally his own people.

[@pdenouter1]

Great video! Two important points that were not mentioned: - One of the main counters to turtle ships, especially in lower numbers in Castle Age, is monks. - In imperial, if you're able to mass turtle ships up to a certain number, they also shred through massed fire ships, because the slow firing speed is compensated by numbers. I went pure turtle often in team games, and nobody knew how to deal with a mass of them (use monks to swing fights).

[@xavierinthetube]

"Admiral Yi, as he yeeted the Japanese" you outdid yourself Spirit

[@civ-fanboy2137]

Your Addbreaks are simply the best

[@yasirbukhari1006]

Hey Spirit of the Law, guys here! On the latest Town Center podcast ft. The Viper and Masmorra , Masmorra said that you'll be coming on that podcast soon. I really can't wait for it.

[@cassiolins1203]

I think an important side of population efficiency is that it free pop space for villagers and fishing ships. For example: if a Turtle ship can beat 3 Galleons, it is actually a better unit even if it cost 3 times more, because now you have 1 military unit (which is worth 3) PLUS 2 villagers/fishing ships.

[@gamingwithdrgoblin]

Yep, we now know what the next video is gonna be

[@rat_thrower5604]

Top 10 worst barracks

[@brainwasher9876]

Mongols!

[@harshawardhanthopate487]

It definitely is not the Korean civ review. We all know how SoTL surprised us the last time 😅

[@thegmer5249]

The question is: when?

[@chingamfong]

He still owes us a Teutons overview

[@Imperiused]

Watching this video made me think... something we're missing is a Team Bonus that let's you recruit a unique boat unit. If we eventually get one of these, hopefully it'll have great synergy with Turtle Ships. Maybe a small cheap karambit-like canoe? Then you can use them as a meat shield and swarm your opponent while your Turtles turn it into a snowball.

[@MC-wh3xm]

Turtle ships are also pretty good at map/chokepoint control, if you can protect a few near the opponents shores, they're going to lose all their buildings eventually. They basically 1-2 shot all ground/trade units.

[@chickenadobo7166]

SPIRIT OF THE S L O W

[@Whomobile]

They easily are my favourite looking ship

[@MouseDestruction]

One of the better units to use repair on as well, high durability and expensive.

[@trailblazer1748]

That add build up was S tier stuff.. I want to go see that “spirit of the slow” website right now. XD

[@Doc_Calamari]

The Turtle Ship has been one of my favorites ever since The Conquerors was released. Only recently, when Definitive Edition was released, I realized how unpopular it actually was. I was quite bummed because people simply never used it as intended, which is in a big ball of all the ships. Regarding their weaknesses, even though real life Turtle Ships were relatively fast and maneuverable, considering their heavy armor, they performed poorly on open water or at rough seas. The first time the Turtle Fleet was commanded by someone else than Admiral Yi (who had been imprisoned for being too successful), they were baited into open water where they were easily outmaneuvered and destroyed. So in a way it makes sense that the AoE2 Turtle Ship is better at defending chokepoints than chasing down Galleons.

[@Doktersocks]

The koreans are what got me into AoE because I loved how their unique units look.

[@lewstherintelamon244]

How do dromons do against Turtleships?

[@redman1458]

bad

[@widodoakrom3938]

Up

[@daarom3472]

depends what kind of dromon.

[@SOUPNPC]

Played against Koreans as the Armenians (Id argue best Dromon Civ) they wipe.

[@zeroyuki92]

​@@SOUPNPCwho wiped who?

[@Nostryck]

Always a pleasure to see your unit presentation videos! I wouldn't have thought it was so profitable, given how rarely we see it. On the other hand, there are two aspects not covered in the video, which I would have been curious to know: - what does it give against units compared to a galleon (given that it hits in AOE) - how does it look compared to buildings, such as a tower or a castle

[@BayWa4eva]

no naval unit is particularly strong against buildings. cannon galleons only work because they outrange castles and towers, their dps can't keep up with land units and if they ever get in range of a castle they're dead. regular dromons can't even outrange a crennelation castle, total losers.

[@koutetsusama2498]

Your videos are amazing, love your stuff SoTL!

[@michaelengelbrecht-hk8zw]

I see we’re getting to the Spirit of the Blog with Squarespace today!

[@smugshrug]

are you turtley enough for the turtle ship club?

[@CyberDrewan]

Turtle ship! Turtle ship!

[@UnDeaDCyBorg]

The one comparison we haven't seen is a mixed ship army of all 3 types for either side, that is, where the opposing force brings a tiny group of demo ships to the battle. After all, those also deal pretty decent damage against (Korean) fire ships, so I think that's a relevant comparison.

[@arcticbeak]

They are the best. Also my favourite unit.

[@starcaller6448]

I’m glad the turtle ship has slowly gotten better over the last two decades. This video might help more Korean players come out of their shell. Also, does your elephant know you’re seeing a turtle? I thought facts were THEIR special thing.

[@jotfohm4644]

Hey Spirit Guys of the Law her. 😊🎉❤

[@ismail_]

Here* 🤣

[@starocean8534]

Portuguese civ overview coming up😂

[@irishguy051]

You should really take a look at Sins of A Solar Empire II, which just released. Its got lots of similar mechanics, plenty of "When does it make sense to pay for this eco upgrade" questions you could answer!

[@Green__Ghost]

That explains why there wasn't a Korea video after the war wagon one.

[@ozyermiahu]

It'll be interesting to have ships that are like rams, but i think that maybe the won't be so useful. Perhaps as another attack option to the turtle ship

[@laservsvecchiette]

Ah yes teutons overview incoming!

[@WhateverNameIsStillAvailable]

My first thought was demo + turtle since turtle beats all except fire (and demo sort of). Keep the demo ships behind your turtles until the fire/demo ships approach.

[@Jixxor]

Korenas were really fortunate to have Adminal Yeet on their side back in the day.

[@balazsfenyes3880]

I like this ship so much, it looks so good and it's so bulky and slow, it's a teutonic shipknight without a cape

[@kunevv]

Such a rare thing to say but I have some critique here - an obvious question arises - why we almost never see turtles in pro play? And I think the angle of monks being hard counter to them is worth to be noted. That seems as a significant weakness to the turtles (kind of parallel to elephants on land).

[@dragosd8992]

War wagon now turtle ships. You're edging me

[@Arcodus]

Thanks for the video. I hope that one day Age of Empires 2 DE will get animated oars for ships.

[@Cblazer100]

You didn’t compare the damage to buildings to the cannon gallon 😢

[@TheOhioNews]

Jon Slow about to check this website out

[@cuauhtemocsolanorosas9109]

What about the comparison vs Artillery Galleons?

[@LanceNisk-gt6xq]

Hey Spirit, Guys of the Law here!

[@rowanturner-jones4936]

Thought you would put in cannon galleon comparison😮

[@BrownFoxWarrior]

7:40 That demo pathing made me die a little inside.

[@vermouthstone9446]

Turtle Ship is a warship designed by the Koreans during the Imjin Japanese Rebellion. It is named turtle ship because its top is armored, just like a turtle shell. Its main function is to avoid Japanese matchlock guns from shooting on the deck, and to prevent Japanese soldiers skilled in hand-to-hand combat boarded the ship. At that time, the Japanese infantry, which had just experienced the Warring States Period, had strong hand-to-hand combat capabilities, and the Korean soldiers who were in a long period of peace were no match at all. Even among the infantry of the Ming Empire, only elite troops could compete with them, such as the Qi Army and the Guangxi Wolf Soldiers.

[@mojungle3054]

VIDEO IDEA: Which civ has the best un-upgraded units. Best militia? Best spears? Best scouts? Etc

[@lincolnvolk7609]

Spirit of the la hire!!

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Forget the side cannons, am surprised it doesn't have the naval equivalent of Cataphract trample damage, what with its protective spikes.

[@eodo14051]

SPIRIT OF THE SLOOOOOWWWWW 11 love you sotl ❤

[@Cysubtor_8vb]

I just started playing water maps again for the first time in a while (first trying out the new Thirisadai then reverting to an old fav the Spanish Cannon Galleon with Ballistics) and was wondering how the Turtle Ship has changed from the old days.

[@Pedrunski_99]

I love spirit of the law

[@andrewy2957]

I think in imp, monks completely shutdown turtleship aggression. In castle, its a bit more close.

[@Amadeus8484]

Imagine if someone had combined the Turtle Ship with the Longboat. Perfection in pre-modern naval engineering...

[@CenturyOldPanda]

Hey Spirit of the law / everyone. Just curious to know if the background music used in those SOTL videos are copyright free musics? If so, does anybody know their names?

[@bigbigestwiner92]

Just wanted to say that I don’t even play aoe2 and stilk watch a lot of your videos. That ought to tell something about the quality here

[@aruan7sp]

I thought that you would've mentioned that the first thing that changed for the Turtle Ship was its appearance.

[@raynightshade8317]

If they made this thing historically accurate it would be OP as well. On other note have you seen the recent movies about YI? they are really good

[@tanujaeasycooking8075]

Are you going to do Korean overview or war wagon overview

[@themodman1014]

@SpiritOfTheLaw Your next website should be "Spirit of the Slaw" and be about BBQ related things.

[@smrtycakes7509]

sick ad SOTL!

[@DCdabest]

I wonder if you can go hard into Turtle Ships in castle and just keep doubling down on them. The numbers on how much wood and gold you would need to make it happen would be interesting to see.

[@spyrofrost9158]

As a kid I always loved turtling (haha) until Imperial Age and sending swarms of turtle ships at the AI. I don't really play Koreans anymore after their heavy DE changes.

[@gustavchambert7072]

Uuum. Aren't we missing something in the comparisons here? Like cannon galleons and dromon?

[@otarius99]

I think it would be best to increase its damage in area specially against fire ships

[@kudrzyk]

I demand turtle to be added as a channel mascot, alongsite elephant.

[@ethribin4188]

Based on korean history.... would it make sense for the koreans to get a civ bonus or tech that gives their galley line +1 range? Or would that be op?

[@ico1]

Smol smol turtle house!

[@daheadsmiter2052]

Doing important thing < Watching Useless Facts about a Video game.

[@yamchadragonball6983]

You forgot the teenager mutant Ninja upgrade, although it costs a lot of food and almost seems to require some pepperonipizza.

[@RazorWinter]

Going Turtle Ships + Fire Ships seems you double down on your demo ship weakness. Which is good online cuz players barely use it. But if you are campaign/bot player it can be pretty annoying.

[@commonpepe2270]

Those unique ship matchups ironically make the turtle ship the samurai of naval units.

[@ethribin4188]

During the Turtleship's reign, The Japanese basically hard countered thr Koreans in close quater and infantery combat. Not to mention numbers. However, the koreans hard countered japanese naval caoabilities with superior cannon range and ship speed. And this is what Admiral Yi built all his strategy on. And won.

[@Shnazz999]

How much gold does the butt breathing upgrade for the turtle ship cost and what are the in-game effects?

[@ethribin4188]

In short, the Turtle ship is so powerfull, you do NOT want to fight it. But you absolutely have the choice to fight, or to run.

[@rupert7565]

But how do they stack up against the cannon galleon?

[@harktischris]

how would turtle ship + demo ship fare instead of fire ships? is it just not resource efficient at all?

[@bigbroarivus]

0:33 why did putting 2 question mark on the head cracks me so much?

[@dominikvukelic2412]

10:50 why does one fire ship change his mind, seeing the horrors and destruction, and becomes peaceful?

[@yuuya5985]

Square Space really found a creative advertiser 11

[@royasturias1784]

a.k.a Geobukseon, the proto-ironclads of the Joseon polity before it went full Hermit Kingdom

[@Amadeus8484]

They are the Goodest :)

[@emperorkarlfranzprinceofal1465]

HELL YEAH BORTHER TURTLES ROCK

[@Neonblue84]

9:20 and what is vs. Dromone and canon galley?

[@avideogamemaster]

11:42 oof, that finish off was hard to watch lol

[@reubendias18]

Missed Dromons an Cigs vs buildings and each other…

[@bsktblmasta31]

Did I miss the Turtle-Dromon matchup?

[@septiawanrizky1013]

I prefer to use them as guard for Cannon Galleon.