How Good Were the Player’s Actions? [Game Essence]

Рет қаралды 21,113

Күн бұрын

When planning things like game balance, it can be effective to consider exactly how good the player's actions really were. Just be careful not to make things too predictable!

Пікірлер: 67

@originsofruin22 2 ай бұрын

Average Ghouls n Ghosts experience

@Dingalow 2 ай бұрын

That game is fire

@Schimnesthai 2 ай бұрын

Love the series, deserves more respect.

@Anonymimus 2 ай бұрын

Ahhh... that THIEF thing. I know it really annoyed me when I found out that I would forever be called THIEF in my first playthrough's savefile :/ Just because I didn't want to farm 980 rupees -.-

@raicogonzalez1720 Ай бұрын

Look to 0:09, 1:02, 1:10, 1:21, 1:30, 1:40 and 1:53. Has anyone noticed that in several videos there are some frames where an image is shown distorted by interference? It seems to contain some strange symbols, do they have a cryptic message?

@TheHylianBatman 2 ай бұрын

It's all the push and pull, eh?

@BooTeresa1006 2 ай бұрын

Certified 💯moment

@HaroldBarriosIsaac 2 ай бұрын

Liberals and progressives won't like that idea

@Link-ho8yq 2 ай бұрын

This reminds me of the difficulty vs punishment rule I found somewhere: **"The harder a task is, the lighter the punishment for failing it should be."** (And the time it takes to try the task again is considered part of the punishment)

@stevenstokes6306 2 күн бұрын

Checkpoint right before a boss fight, and allow the player to leave and get more resources instead of locking them into a battle they have to win

@shawnheatherly 2 ай бұрын

The reward and punishment must match the action. Makes total sense.

@BigKlingy 2 ай бұрын

Something I've come to realize is artists are usually the worst judge of their own work, and when it comes to things like this... when YOU might think "good" or "bad" play is might not line up with what players actually think. If you make things too rigid and expect a specific playstyle, you run the risk of players not liking it and getting frustrated at being rewarded for it. I'm not a designer but playtesting and polling might help, there's the classic example of Grand Theft Auto, which was supposed to be a racing game until testers found outrunning the cops more fun. I enjoy scoring systems that rank several metrics, especially strategy games that rank more than just turn count/speed. But it's sometimes implemented strangely. Advance Wars is my favourite rank system, but Power isn't intuitive in the first three (it's most enemies destroyed in a single turn, not total enemies destroyed) and Days of Ruin tried to "fix" Technique so you couldn't cheese it with unit spam and ended up rewarding you for letting the enemy build more units. But they're still better than Fire Emblem 7/Blazing Blade's ranking system's Funds score, which totals the worth of all your items. There's SEVERAL problems with this. -It encourages you to horde strong, expensive weapons and never use them. -The Silver Card, which gives you 50% off items, essentially creates Funds points from nothing. -You're punished for selling the Gems, which exist specifically to be sold. (Selling an item loses half its value) -You're punished for promoting the Lords or Pirates, because their promotion items are worth tons of gold if left unused.

@YuriMomoiro 2 ай бұрын

In the end it's also pretty subjective and would depend on who is your target audience as well. Play-testing is definitely the best way to go about this.

@NinjaWarotMCph 2 ай бұрын

there's a quote that i've heard that always rung true in pretty much any creative field i have heard of: "An artist will always see the error in their own work." only by having someone else with a fresh perspective see the work only then you'd be able to tell if your work suits your target or not

@ConcavePgons 2 ай бұрын

I wonder if the Funds score in Fire Emblem 7/Blazing Blade was meant for (experienced) players going for challenge runs where they have to use the least resources as possible.

@SobmicSSBB 2 ай бұрын

You'd think so, but with how you're graded overall at the end, together with other grades that make more sense like Tactics(Turncount) and EXP, it feels like it's just there to throw a curveball so you don't just lowball the game as fast as possible. That's why FE7 speedrunners have Ranked and Turncount as separate categories. The same "do well, but not too well" tendencies are also why rankings are often idiosyncratic in video games overall, especially with others of its time like Mega Man Zero.

@syrelian Ай бұрын

@@SobmicSSBB Honest, MMZ's ranking is a lot more intuitive, setting aside the Elf Penalty, the objectives are coherent, and the pars usually reasonable Kill count is typically around the same as the number of enemies you should see in a normal blitz of a stage, kill everything, don't take too many weird shortcuts, but rarely needs to be farmed Mission is self-explanatory, don't ignore mission objectives if they exist Damage, again, don't get hit bozo(usually pretty generous tho, 16 ~ 20 is usually the threshold where you start losing points) Time, go fast (don't) die young It definitely can feel idiosyncratic at times but its far cleaner than AW or FE7's ratings which have actively bizarre decisions in scoring or conveyance

@hyde_stopStealingMyUsername 2 ай бұрын

I started working on a game recently and this video made me reconsider some things, thank you

@BluishGreenPro 2 ай бұрын

A good example of this is the “stale moves” mechanic in Smash Bros. Spamming the same move is behavior you want to discourage, so attacks deal less damage each time. It’s all about using an appropriate combination of “carrot and stick” to shape player behavior with the intention of creating the most fun play experience. Players will often “optimize the fun out of a game” so you need to implement mechanics to guide them towards a better experience.

@hemangchauhan2864 2 ай бұрын

In Silent Hill 2/3, there are change in story based on how well you've played

@LilyBlue53 2 ай бұрын

That thumbnail is 💯🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️

@ExploDjinn 2 ай бұрын

The Mega Man Zero games are already pretty hard, but if you manage to maintain a high rank, you get harder boss fights which reward you with some extra abilities. Neat little bonus for those not just good enough to win, but to dominate.

@James-gj8rn 2 ай бұрын

One of the best grading systems are the ones in Platinums games, in Bayonetta, it's really rewarding to get higher rankings in missions, Devil May Cry too

@DaakkuuYRS 2 ай бұрын

Bayonetta and DMC feels so good when you have S ranks or higher, which really push you to make ever cooler combos, along with the amazing and cool song in the background.

@James-gj8rn 2 ай бұрын

@@DaakkuuYRS it really motivates you to get better at the game

@Flinch9000 2 ай бұрын

Some Sonic games like Generations have that too, where if you don’t fall or do really well on a stage, you’ll get a rank depending on how fast you went and if you didn’t lose any lives.

@thekiss2083 2 ай бұрын

In Bayonetta 2, maybe. Bayo 1 punishes item use so hard that your first playthrough is pretty much guaranteed to be a parade of "Stone" awards

@CyberDragon10K 2 ай бұрын

I like how Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia made resistances and weaknesses play a large(r) part in standard gameplay, _especially_ if you're rolling in Hard Mode. Between a 75% damage reduction from hitting an enemy with something they resist and the absolute truckloads of damage that can piled on you from sloppy play, you'll certainly be paying attention to an enemy's weaknesses (and making liberal use of Cubus/Torpor/Acerbatus' cursing).

@ryo-kai8587 2 ай бұрын

I think in a big way, this is the very heart and essence of a great game experience-the "secret sauce" after the obvious necessities like control, graphics, sounds and basic systems. This is talking about _deep interactivity and feedback._ Short and long-term consequences. These elements need to be on-point, satisfying, and make sense intuitively. Successes should feel rewarding, challenges: tense, skill plays: awesome. We should also clearly feel why something didn't work. We crave a direct sense of agency in affecting the game world and flow.

@connordarvall8482 2 ай бұрын

This makes sense as players are more likely to pick options that maximise reward and minimise risk, so if one action has more reward than risk compared to the others, they'll more likely pick that option over others, leading to a repetitive strategy.

@mmking9999 2 ай бұрын

Did you know that in Super Punch Out for the SNES, you can hit Nick Bruiser out of his leaping attack and score a one hit knock down? In Persona 4, you can hit Shadow Teddie out of his Nihil Hand attack and score a knockdown, enabling an all out attack. I love discovering stuff like that. Players who make a risky play and fail should be punished accordingly, but they should also be rewarded heavily if they're successful.

@SobmicSSBB 2 ай бұрын

More like Masahiro Sakurai on Negative Frames I appreciate very much that the video shows the many ways you can reward or discourage good behaviour beyond just grading. Grades can feel arbitrary and _highly_ subjective in schools and real life already, and video game grades often feel like that too. At least some countries are catching up with their schools only grading pupils a few years in. I also appreciate it's also "how bad were players' actions", unlike certain behavioural group therapies where patients roleplay embarassing situations and it's only talked about how to make the good moves even better. Though this kind of therapy is slowly falling out of style too? Anyway, player psychology is still psychology, so some primers could be taken from that actual field.

@Poyostar 2 ай бұрын

Y'know, I was thinking this was going to be about morality in video games. It would've been a nice drinking game for people to scroll down the comments and take a shot every time someone brought up UNDERTALE!

@Melody-qf5oy 2 ай бұрын

Highel reward with a Tendency to flee, unless they're Diablo III loot goblins has a higher chance of making players avoid battling them entirely. Because of the time sink required usually makes it better to avoid bothering in the first place.

@syrelian Ай бұрын

Untrue, the example given, the Metal Slime, is a well successful and time honored tradition echoed into many other RPG series, Metal Slimes have nigh immaculate defense, and a high chance to flee every turn, but low HP, so they usually fall in a couple successful blows, that defense just means most attacks will roll 0s or 1s against their tiny tiny HP pool, forcing luck or specific skills to cleave into them for mad EXP, or cash in some cases You have no reason to avoid fighting metal slimes, they're just a rare random encounter, and oft over as quickly as they started, so running away is a pointless effort, Diablo 3's loot goblins are pretty much the same thing and exact same idea, its not about "time sink", fleeing isn't supposed to necessarily be about The Chase, its about them just vanishing if you're not quick and strong on the draw

@Blanco8x8 2 ай бұрын

I was playing Perfect Dark and throughout the campaign I usually take my time clearing out all the enemies and completing the objectives. But to unlock the cheats, I must complete some of these missions in the hardest difficulty and within a time limit. This changes the way I play the game, rather than to play it safe, I must rush through hordes of tough enemies and complete the objectives in time. Kid Icarus Uprising offers similar challenges, encouraging players to replay missions on a higher difficulty for better rewards.

@jimbob3332 2 ай бұрын

Saying how rewards can get predictable reminds me of Fallout 4. Every safe seems to contain a pipe gun, a little ammo, some caps, and one or two bits of junk for crafting.

@mastergreninjaxd 2 ай бұрын

Señor Sakurai cuál es su pokemon favorito?

@DarkBloodbane 2 ай бұрын

Ah yes, this is something that I've been considering from the start of game making process. Making it less predictable is something I have to consider next! thanks for the tip Mr Sakurai! But it won't be luck based stuffs such as King Metal for sure.

@UP3UP 2 ай бұрын

There are countermeasures as well as luck. Effective weapons, effective skills: ...... For example, consider multi-stage attacks and critical skills.

@NetBattler 2 ай бұрын

This video is for the developers who in charge of making Duo scenario in Megaman Battle Network 4

@BluishGreenPro Ай бұрын

When Sakurai talks about a game that feels “too predictable” I believe this makes a good case for why a little bit of randomness is good to keep in your design. However, to keep it from feeling unfair, you can try to rely more on “pre-action luck” if something is going to go badly for the player. Or, you can include a tiny chance of a bad thing that might not happen. There’s a good example of this in Into the Breach, where the buildings you are supposed to protect have a 15% chance of not taking damage; it’s small enough that you would never count on it, but sometimes it makes the difference between failing or clearing a map.

@tierpackage2142 2 ай бұрын

BLOODBORNE!?!?

@NameNotNeeded 2 ай бұрын

In Dota 2, good player action is to make sure your carry ends up with more Assists than Kills

@orio_edible Ай бұрын

@DaakkuuYRS 2 ай бұрын

What annoys me that in some RPGs (Mainly old ones), enemies don't have visable HP bar. Meaning you have no idea how long you are into the boss fight, or how well you are doing. Some of them such as FF7 gives you item that do just that, so it is okay, but on the others it is just annoying. You have no idea if it is the time to use to special item you have only one of, or save it for later as you almost defeat the boss anyway.

@TheOrian34 2 ай бұрын

Not having health bars can be beneficial as well though.

@kurioprokos9147 22 күн бұрын

@@TheOrian34 In what ways?

@Brods11 2 ай бұрын

Excellent info!👍

@thechugg4372 2 ай бұрын

Funny to see Link's Awakening here, the reason I never finished that game is because I realized I would be called THIEF for the entirety of the rest of the game, made me give up then and there.