How Gothic Literature Died

[@books_ncats]

Thanks for being patient with us while we sorted the glitch... Please enjoy this final instalment in our Gothic video series. What's your favourite spooky book, film, or game?

[@kelliryan464]

I love them all, some more than others but I don't like to forget Daphne Du Maurier and Fanu

[@Star1412s]

I haven’t seen much horror yet, but I really love Nope. The western aesthetic mixed with the horror really well.

[@Emileigggggh]

The idea of "it'll give them unrealistic expectations" is funny because I remember feeling a dissolution (is that the word? I'm kinda brain foggy I feel like this isn't the right word but idk) upon puberty with Disney Channel type of stuff, or it makes me think of that "mad at disney" song, with the concept of girls growing up and being angry at media for giving them false expectations. But it also feels like a way for a lot of potential suitors to do the least and be bad partners while blaming the fictional for just being too perfect for things that are at times just basic decency- wouldn't be surprised if that was an element of the criticism, especially from men during the Victorian Era. I'm definitely going to have to check out Radcliffe's work- I'm also interested in the Victorian ideas of women fainting in fiction or real life because I have a condition called POTS that can lead to that, so the trope really interests me. SUPER excited to have found your channel and I'm definitely going to check out your video on The Yellow Wallpaper because the story is inspiring this one idea I have for a short film running around in my brain!!! Also omg your cat is so cute, look at the cute lil baby awwwww cute lil sweet kitty cat!!!

[@books_ncats]

Thank you for your thoughtful comment! Really happy you like our channel :) Yeah, it's a shame Radcliffe's female contemporaries were quite easily dismissed by the literary establishment, she was definitely singled out as above the rest, in a way you could argue is tokenistic. How fainting is portrayed is interesting - we touch on that kind of thing in our 'Did a Victorian short story change how doctors treat women?' video (the fetishisation of disease). Mouse (the cat) says thank you!! And thanks for joining the Discord server, too :) - Rosie

[@emilyonizuka4698]

I thought I was a lover of gothic novels but sadly I had not heard of ann radcliffe until now, but she has quite a few books that sound very interesting. I'm making it my mission to go check out her books at the library tomorrow. thank you for letting me know of her existence.

[@books_ncats]

You're most welcome! Always interested to hear what people think of Radcliffe's writing - hope you enjoy 😊 what Gothic novels do you like? - Rosie

[@helendyer1756]

My favourite genre

[@m.morevna8901]

Fellow Gothic scholar here, so glad to stumble upon someone to continue to learn from! I remember distinctly reading some of the articles and essays you've mentioned surrounding the "Death of the Gothic." I laughed reading "whoredom" then and I laughed hearing you pronounce it now 🤣 I'm thrilled to go through your video library soon! I firmly believe one of the more underrated or "not seen as horror" novels that's rather horrific and Gothic in a lot of senses is Jane Eyre. I did an entire presentation on how the fantastic was displayed and rebelled against because I felt so passionately about it, LOL. But my absolute favourite spooky novel would have to be "The Woman in White" by Willkie Collins, and the short story "The Fall of the House of Usher" by Edgar Allan Poe. For film, it's Hitchcock's "Rear Window", and for games, it's "Silent Hill." 👻

[@books_ncats]

Hello! So pleased you enjoy our content. What Gothic texts do you study/have you studied? I agree, Jane Eyre is very Gothic! Your presentation sounds really interesting - the 'fantastic' meaning the supernatural? I'm yet to read "The Woman in White" and I've never played "Silent Hill"! They're on my list though. - Rosie

[@m.morevna8901]

@@books_ncats I've gone 'round the whole carousel, as it were, with texts! From "The Castle of Otranto" to "Frankenstein", "The Phantom of the Opera", "Carmilla", "Dracula" ... Flannery O'Connor ... Shirley Jackson ... I spent 6+ years in the academic trenches 😂all culminating in a final paper written as a critical essay of Alice in Wonderland's "Gothic madness and hysteria". I haven't sat to study in that sense in some time, but now I want to get back into it! And yes, fantastic meaning the supernatural!

[@books_ncats]

Your work sounds right up my street - is it available to read online anywhere? So many interesting texts you've mentioned. Thanks for watching our video! - Rosie

[@otherworldlyfiction]

In a way, we haven't changed. The tendency to downplay or devalue more "feminine" literature remains. The genre we now call "romance" is regularly dismissed, and treated as inferior to more "serious" genres. Books written by, and for, women, such as Twilight, Fourth Wing, or the works of Sarah J. Maas are also considered "trashy," because of their emphasis on romance or emotion. Meanwhile, more masculine books, with wars and action, are seen as more highbrow. The types of books women gravitate towards - be they romance, romantasy, or YA - are still seen as lesser, in comparison to the books men like to praise and review. Finally, when you mentioned how there was this idea that novels were a bad influence on women, I was reminded of how a lot of readers now worry over "problematic" books. There's this assumption that if a young woman reads Twilight or ACOTAR, she's more likely to make bad decisions and end up in an abusive relationship. Yet you don't see people worrying that men will act more violently, because they read Game of Thrones. It's more subtle now, but the idea that young women are dangerously impressionable and therefore shouldn't be reading "questionable" books never went away...

[@books_ncats]

This is so interesting, and something I’ve been thinking about a lot for a future video. I totally agree that we’ve not really changed in some ways when it comes to “feminine” lit - Rosie

[@mizushirokanon9174]

Its so hard to eradicate this way of thinking as a woman even, i understand that, but automatically ashamed if i will be seen with the wron book or the book with explicitly trashy cover art. Btw, why romances always have such cringe cover art, forth wing the only one that looks normal that ive seen..

[@southernbelladonna78]

I agree, often pushed into the less popular "romance" or "women's literature", lol. 😢

[@Jane-oz7pp]

I'd argue that Twilight and the works of Maas are trash because they glorify abuse and are actually just bad books. idk maybe pick good romance and get off booktok.

[@otherworldlyfiction]

@@Jane-oz7pp I'm not saying Twilight is a masterpiece, but this is the exact attitude I'm talking about. There are plenty of bad books in the male sphere too, but you aren't made to feel horrible about yourself, and your tastes, if you say you like Transformers. If you like something bad a woman has written though, then the attitude is very condescending. Not to say that the books aren't flawed, or potentially problematic, but I'm really tired of getting shamed because I like something. I do like "good" books too, but sometimes I just want something fun, mindless, and, dare I say, "trash" to read. Men have their "trash" too, but don't get shamed for it to the degree women readers and writers are.

[@laurelanne5071]

Lord Byron, this is the 7th week in a row you've plagiarized Ann Radcliffe in class

[@83croissant]

that’s a ten out of ten cat, takes a pat like no problem

[@maxinemontgomery9162]

My favourite things. Cats and books

[@calebleland8390]

I only found your channel this morning, and I'm making my way through your videos. I'm fascinated by Radcliffe, and am saddened by the fact that, if I have heard of her works, I've forgotten, and have never had the opportunity to read them. I must remedy this, as Poe is my favorite author, and knowing now that he was inspired by her makes me eager to dive into her writing. I've long been a fan of the Gothic genre. The first real book I ever read was a collection of Poe's stories when I was about 4 (we didn't have Goosebumps back in the late 70s). I grew up on the Universal horror films, with their Gothic aesthetic, and Corman's Poe films and their eerie atmosphere. Thank you for introducing me to her.

[@pleasesaveanimals7]

5:03 the slow pan and "guns" was perfect in delivering the absolute stupidity of the claim that gun violence has increased due to games. And not because of guns

[@OrangeCat1992]

The first place I heard about Ann Radcliffe was in a modern (20th century) gothic novel written by Barbara Michaels. Her influence continues to go on.

[@mimstarkgaryen6182]

seeing catherine being obsessed with udolpho and others in ‘northanger abbey’ is a way to support the male view of books affecting a chance in polite/good marriage or just a sarcasm of it from jane austen? considering the end, I kind of see it as the latter but I’d love your pov!

[@alexjames7144]

Du Maurier wrote Rebecca and then we all gave up on trying to surpass her.

[@katedavis6145]

Ann Radcliffe is a household name in my home! I’m beyond thrilled to hear that a scholarly publication of her complete writings is in the works! I’ve been longing for just that for many years now.

[@davidcashin1894]

I love so much that you footnote your references on screen. Well done.

[@zainab58]

Let us never forget “That singular anomaly, the female novelist”.

[@lowpolyzoe]

Man, I sure do still hear those arguments about novels in the 21st century :( Good video, thank you

[@mysoulmateiscarbs]

more things change the more they stay the same

[@ellenmarysullivan6993]

wonderful. So pleased to learn about Ann Radcliffe, never knew of her at all !

[@83croissant]

I’m sensing from context clues that ‘romance’ novels used to mean something very different than they do today? In the 18th-19th century, what was the distinction between “modern novels” and “romances”? And was there overlap? I’m not fully versed on the period genre definitions

[@books_ncats]

These questions have big and complicated answers, but essentially you're right in sensing that the word 'romance', or more particularly 'romantic', means something different when we're talking about late 18th/early 19th century lit. Romantic period literature, for ex, wasn't writing about romance (love relationships), although that's not to say those themes didn't crop up. Romantic writers, like Wordsworth, Byron, Keats etc wrote about all kinds of themes, and we retroactively refer to them as Romantic. In terms of modern novels & romances, it's another contentious subject, but one way to look at it might be that 'modern novels' deal in more realistic themes, whereas 'romances' deal in the fantastical - so yes, 'romances' weren't strictly about romantic love as we know it today. And yes, definitely overlap, I would argue! - Rosie

[@YAWSSSSSS]

2:47 YASS LORDE

[@ellywhitcombe5007]

Great video, creative delivery and full of fascinating info.

[@books_ncats]

Thank you!! Glad you enjoyed :) - Matty

[@cam4636]

"delicate silly fainting damsels who can't handle being alone in an old house" really starting as "women so oppressed and terrorized that they suffer physical symptoms" was...eye opening

[@Vampireprice]

Are we able to pre-order the new copy of The Mysteries of Udolpho?

[@13realmusic]

I hope you make an update video when that book is finally out!

[@nonfictionfeminist]

Daphne du Maurier is always a favorite

[@richardstange5939]

I just read The Italian by Ann Radcliffe over the summer. I enjoyed it very much.

[@natowe]

So interesting!! I definitely have to finally read Radcliffe, you're making me more and more curious :)

[@AETorrePuerto]

This video is excellent, but a couple key elements are missing: Radcliffe didn't lost popularity in the 19th century (Udolpho is even mentioned in The Turn of the Screw), but in the 20th. Another is that women kept writing throughout the 19th century at a better pace than they were in the 18th. And the most importan is that, at least in Udolpho, there's no "patriarcal" oppression at all. Emily is highly empowered by the two father figures and the two good romantic prospects, even the losing one. All her misfortune has to do with an evil step-mom trope. While Montoni is the villain, he turns out to be more of a bluff, he is a gambler, after all. And it's his female relative who turned out to be a cold blooded murderer. Udolpho is about a wise, well prepared woman in contrast to two really dumb ones. So projecting patriarchal mass psicosis is anachronical, at least on that work. People also do that with Mary Shelley, who portrays grooming as desirable in the two most prominent female characters of Frankenstein.

[@honeyLXIX]

i got taper candles cause this channel inspired me. they're so atmospheric and make me feel perfectly gothic. 💘🕯🕯🕯

[@awolpeace1781]

But eventually everyone's real life expectations become so unreal that some places' death rate is higher than the birth rate

[@honeyLXIX]

mouse is so content 💖🐈

[@emilyrln]

I wonder if developments in science and technology had an impact. Commenting before I finish, so you may cover this!

[@LezjianJen]

The Haunting of Bly Manor which ruined The Turn of the Screw by Henry James.. If only I had read the book first! This is supposed to be the #1 rule - book first then film. Sigh

[@quietbutsweet5332]

Cool vid

[@goodleshoes]

Oh man.

[@Heothbremel]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@PeterMacansky]

[@aroha9090]

I'm a bit in love with you

[@mimstarkgaryen6182]

in the most inspirational and respectful way possible, me too ❤ we need more videos like this!