HOW I CREATE A SEALED WATERPROOF SHOWER PAN

[@shredderhenchBebopandRockstead]

First let me say thank you for all the great videos. Thanks to you I was able to rebuild my shower which failed at the kerdi drain. It has been in use for a year without failure. Wish I could share a photo but I don’t see it as an option in the comment section. Thank you Bob!

[@StarrTile]

Thanks so much for the kind words, you can email me pictures of the shower you built on your own, that would be awesome, I could post them on my community tab ✌🏻

[@brianmorris7498]

Thanks Bob ! I followed your prep methods exactly. I actually took showers with just the prep work (no tile ) for 2 weeks . The reason being that I’m on the second floor in a condo and was scared to death about a failure . It will be 1 year next week leak free ! I ‘m beyond confident. Thanks for all your time and efforts schooling us ! You’re a master in your craft ! Have an awesome weekend!

[@StarrTile]

Thank you sir for the kind words, and for the success in building your own 👌🏻✌🏻💪🏻

[@jeremi7214]

Bob, another great, well thought out video! The fact that you ask questions of why things are done a certain way implies a higher thought process which is much appreciated! I think Isaac does good work, but he only does what he is told and doesn’t think outside the box.

[@StarrTile]

Thank you sir, and yes I would agree with what you said 👌🏻✌🏻👍🏻

[@kaboom362]

Good job Bob. Deadly video

[@StarrTile]

Ka....... 💥 BOOM

[@MrTimo540]

For the people that wonder how much water will seep through the grout and lay in the thin set under the tile, I would like to see you do a video with a finished tile floor, flood test for a few hours then drain it and let it sit for 12 hours. Pull up the tile and see if it's still wet under the tile. I would like to see if it truly does dry in between shower use. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos.

[@OGCJ10]

I would love to see that too

[@kaboom362]

You don't talk a lot Bob. I think your videos are the best. No B.S. I would love to see how you install the oatey linear drain. I noticed you don't do many of them.

[@hillstreet-ct4ir]

Great channel and content...very informative and easy to learn from, keep up the great work!

[@StarrTile]

Thank you sir ✌🏻

[@tonyvee626]

Man I was following through this whole transition from draining systems to sealed...I really thought you were wrong about not having preslope...I have to admit you were ahead of the game...I exclusively do sealed system...hats off to you sir

[@StarrTile]

Thank you ! ✌🏻

[@timthetoolman9659]

Excellent demo, shows you don't need a product just enjinuity 👍🏻

[@StarrTile]

👍🏻 agreed

[@ivan53594]

Agree with the wicking, ive started rasing wall boards a few years ago, but a few things i disagree with as a tile guy, corner dams are a must, you horizontal panliner on a curb isnt gonna help when it touches the 2x4 on the side, also never screw the curb on the inside or halfway into the curb on top, only use foamboard, or wrap fabric with memebrane around the curb, with corner dams you can make your curb not a ponywall to climb over to get in a shower 😊

[@chorgzent.3978]

had to chip away a few blobs of redguard to make floor tile sit flat. did not brush over again. the few spots not a big deal right?

[@StarrTile]

Could be...if not waterproofed

[@tommynguyen8942]

Bob, you don’t have to use the sheet membrane with any of the bonding flange, you could roll topical membrane right up to the edge of the drain opening. AND you wouldn’t have a dam like with what you have there to prevent the water from going down the drain without any weep holes.

[@adamh6190]

this is the way

[@scoobtoober2975]

I've debated on that for a few weeks. The linear drains, us shower brand call out just painted topical up and onto the drain outside. The dam is only 1/4" to 3/8" at the most. And that area is filled with grout. Grout gets wet every time and needs to dry in between. Some thinset is underneath, but then again all showers have that accumulation or dampness. Little dam or not, it's a small amount.

[@StarrTile]

I suppose what people don't understand about these drains is once the tile and thinset are put down it will take up the difference and be flush with the top of the drain, there won't be pooling of water below the tile because there won't be any room for the pooling, perhaps a little moisture like the rest of the shower will be there for a few hours or a day and then dry out

[@tommynguyen8942]

@@StarrTile water wouldn’t go thru grout lines?

[@StarrTile]

@@tommynguyen8942 I didn't say water would not go through oh, it's possible if you use epoxy but either way what I said was if it does go through it'll dissipate because all the room and space is taken up by the thinset in the tile

[@JohnAnderson-kt4mb]

I’m undergoing my shower remodel Right now and it’s looking exactly like yours! Learned a lot from your videos, my issue is the floor.. floor is sloped to the drain correctly, but I’m thinking the slope Might be steeper than need be.. I’ve redgarded the shit out of it, it’s fully enclosed.. shower pan liner test successful, hardienbacker is up off the floor, sits above it maybe 1/2 inch to an inch. Taped and mudded the shower walls. My question .. Does the tile sit above the drain or should it be flush with the drain?

[@StarrTile]

I usually like circular drains so I can have the tile slightly above the drain and make taper cuts on every tile, but with a square drain it's difficult at best to get taper cuts so I make it flush

[@williamp9158]

You leave a gap between the backerboard and the pan.....water will seep through that gap and go down to your pan liner and hopefully down the drain through the weep holes....So that's still a water in and water out system??

[@OGCJ10]

Do you account for water evaporation when doing the flood test and if so approximately how much loss is ok? Also, once you tile the shower floor do you apply silicone where the tile meets the drain?

[@davidmcclain5180]

Thank you Bob. I am wondering why all the water didn't drain in this video. I know your pans are perfect with the correct slope so I must be missing something. If all of the water doesn't drain before the floor tile is set, why would it drain after you set the tile? Water will go through the grout and will just stay between the tile and the redguard. What am I missing?

[@scoobtoober2975]

I've had this debate for some time. Linear drains have this problem. Its going to be a small amount in general. All systems will have saturated thinset and grout. The integral drain with no dam do drain all the way but the thinset and grout are still saturated. A shower needs time to dry in-between showers or days. Seal your grout to mitigate it. I'm doing this right now, about to set tile. Issac said this comment about the dam. I'm going to drill a few weep holes but keep it water proofed around the hole. I'm sure it wont do much. but can sleep a bit better. I'll flood test for sure. look up "us shower" drains for their instructions.

[@StarrTile]

@davidmcclain5180 That this is a square drain that's below cap to take up for tile and thinset, once those are set it'll be flush... any water that gets into the grout will evaporate the same way the rest of the shower would, there won't be excess pooling of water because there will be no space for that to happen with the tile there

[@citionriver]

Watched most of your video. Very knowledgeable. What do you think about the Divot system? I came to the point where I need to do sealed as you did or go with Divot system so some water under the tiles will go to the drain. Any thoughts?

[@StarrTile]

I've watched a few videos on the divot method and I don't like it, it is not definitive enough and seems to be much more work for no return

[@michaeld2613]

Simplest would be use Hydroban's Kerdi-like membrane sheet system as-directed. Then go over seams/changes of plane with their liquid. Probably a bit more pricey, but 1.) you know all the products will work together and 2.) it'll come with a warranty. I get that warranties tend to be useless, but it's something to entice the customer with if they are willing to eat the extra cost of the product.

[@StarrTile]

For me money is not really the issue, my customer pays for the material anyway, and I don't rely on the manufacturers for warranty, I rely on myself. But just like you said overlapping a sheet membrane with a waterproofer will be the way that I would go about it, but then again the products aren't as important as the application of anything used.

[@beanieweenie9543]

Do you have any videos of start to finish how to build this sealed system

[@StarrTile]

I don't believe I have specifically a video on the shower pan itself oh, I do however have a video on a complete build of a shower which would include the shower pan and sealed system process I do. Complete shower build in 30 minutes Look for that title in youtube search box

[@UGotTheFunk]

Any particular reason you don't see anyone talk about the tile ready shower pans? I'm not a professional, and I used one for my shower because I figured it was easier then trying to figure out how to build and possibly fail at creating one from scratch.

[@ohmsweethohm7259]

It’s waterproof but your getting standing water in your pan after every shower bc your drain body is up to high. It sets to high bc it’s not made to be sealed. Setting water begets mold & mildew. Just my two cents. You’ve evolved your process like we all do over the years but don’t wanna take that last step of using a drain that’s made for the purpose your using it for. Just my two cents Bob not bashing you at all buddy. 👍

[@adamh6190]

everyone has been saying exactly what you just did for years. he is correct that sealed system is superior but i don't understand why he won't use the correct type of drain.

[@devilmonkey]

I've done this exact method and no standing water with tile installed. Basically the tile and thinset get wet, drys out within half an hour, I live in az. I've been in other showers that stay damp for hours, can tell someone took a shower that morning.

[@StarrTile]

@ohmsweetholm7259 Basically what last guy said, no void will exist because tile takes it up, water flows off tile into drain, the little moisture that gets at waterproofing and thinset will dry out same as any other shower with any other product like FloFX and sheet membrane

[@gardeninggptx]

Bob, why do I have mold on my subway tile. Removed tub and tiler did all that asked accordingly to your videos. Used cement boards. I redgarded 3 coats. Did a great job. Tiler used thinset mortar and I sealed the grout with Mapei grout sealer. Shower is 3 years old. I thought I did a good job but I guess I didn’t. I’m going to spray it down with vinegar solution and water. Let dry and reseal. Any thoughts?

[@StarrTile]

I don't know what part of the shower you are getting mold on but ventilation is very important and most houses nowadays do not have functional windows so you would need a really good CFM fan to get moisture in the air out of your bathroom, having said that mold will usually grow only with air food and moisture, apparently there is some food going on somewhere.... I'm in a very humid environment in the South and with my shower in particular because it is all natural stone then I will get mold that is attracted to it every few months and I spray bleach it and let it stand for about 5 minutes, scrub it down, and rince.

[@gardeninggptx]

@@StarrTile there is allot of dust in the home. Had an exhaust fan installed but we have to shower with the bathroom door open to help with the steam. The walls (painted) part gets moisture on them, no mold though, just in shower which has a curtain not invaded in glass. Thank you Bob. Gives me a place to start.

[@eddiepullman2745]

Good morning good sir! Eddie here in NY… I wanted your thoughts on a way my contractor does his prep work. No slope. He red guards the sub. We nail wire. Stretch pan. He red guards the mud afterwards, all seams and taped. 5 years he’s doing this never leaked. No vinyl. At first I was really concerned. Wonder if anyone else does this.

[@StarrTile]

Everyone has their own method, although I may not agree with his and a lot of people don't agree with mine the proof of the pudding is more important... No leaks over time & you're golden.

[@eddiepullman2745]

@@StarrTile I’m old school with the vinyl. And these shluter systems to me personally are garbage and very expensive. Thanks as always!!!

[@seancrowley7520]

I hear this often..."Five years and i've never had a leak". But when i replace a failure, I can tell it has been failing for many years. (as evidenced by the amount of rot....sometimes it's like wet mulch). Though it took a very long time to materialize to something visible (stain on ceiling below,pehaps) to the homeowner. That being said, I can often tell at first glance inside the shower that there are potential leaks, as evidenced by mold or staining. My point being; We accept (theoretically) that topical waterproofings are below thinset and grout, and we accept that they can and probably will be saturated above the waterproofing, and that they will dry to the air between uses. We should therefore prepare to accept the possibility of any leakage through the topical waterproofing would also have the potential to dry between uses to some degree. At the same time wreaking a slow havoc on the underlying structure (probably cellulose and wood based). Point is 5 years doesnt seem like a long time. I suspect a younger man than I, may one day be ripping apart showers looking very hard to find where the liquid applied membranes are failing....

[@danielwaldrip]

What Drain is that? Oatey? I like the black.

[@StarrTile]

Yes Oatey...at home depot

[@ryantucker4633]

I agree 100 percent with this system. Most information I see about using a topical membrane on top of a motar bed with a pan liner is a big no no... They all say that you're creating a "moisture sandwich" Would that be from the mud bed not cured enough? Where would the moisture be coming from if the mud bed doesn't get wet? Please someone give me peace of mind, Thanks

[@StarrTile]

Drying and curing are two different things, my mortar bed is dry after about day 3 with a fan blowing near it everyday..the curing process typically takes about 20 days for a cement product and will do so on it's own. The mold sandwich that you speak of or moisture sandwich would be if any water escapes your waterproofer and enters into the mortar, mainly because you have a pan liner under it what doesn't allow the water to escape and your waterproofer on top of it, so if you make a mistake on your topical waterproofer then yes you are introducing moisture into an otherwise dry mud bed.

[@ryantucker4633]

@@StarrTile Thank you for the quick response!! Your videos are awesome and lots of great content on your channel, Thank you!! So basically, if my topical membrane, water proofing, is done well I shouldn't have any concerns give the mud bed a solid week before applying the membrane?

[@StarrTile]

@@ryantucker4633 yes let it set for a week, longer if you can no harm no foul

[@ryantucker4633]

@@StarrTile Thanks again!!

[@tonyandrews9568]

How long do you let your mortar bed dry before applying RedGard?

[@StarrTile]

Personally I wait about 3 days with a fan over it nightly, but if I had my choice and time wasn't an issue I would let it set well over a week

[@tonyandrews9568]

@@StarrTile Thank you. I appreciate your videos.

[@btomas225]

Mold sammich?...😀

[@mamatobz2890]

You make me a better tiler

[@StarrTile]

Thanks 👍🏻

[@MrTooTechnical]

Fuking awesome

[@devilmonkey]

This system is bullet proof bob, laugh at all the other stuff that comes out and eventual failures happen. Only reason to ever change from this would be something less time consuming or expensive, would also have to be as good. Don't see it happening.

[@StarrTile]

Agreed... although this is the method I came up with and somebody else could come along with a different one that I would adapt if it works good

[@alexanderjamieson7971]

I've always thought your method of keeping the board off the pan to prevent wicking was superior to what the other pro tile KZbinrs do.

[@StarrTile]

I think so too.... Thanks for the comment 👍🏻

[@65vaughn]

What people / contractors who critisize this method of waterproofing need to realize is you are creating the same shower base equal or better than a foam , acrylic , or any other solid surface shower base . The rubber membrane under the pan with this method has become a second line of defence for a failure . Other methods as mentioned above have only one line of waterproofing between a success and a failure . It is a hybrid way to waterproof a shower , born from critcal and logical thinking because of new products on the market . Just a side note I have seen some videos lately from some popular KZbinrs that are experiencing Kerdi line drain failures from the tape used to fasten the flease to the drain at the factory separating snd allowing water past it. Gonna cause some sleepless nights ( for contractors who care ) I bet after installing 100 's of these . Hmmmm if only they had a second line of water proofing .

[@StarrTile]

Yes I agree with all you say, and to your last point about those drains oh, that's what I always do proactively to have a second or even a third line of defense because I don't trust what the manufacturers supposably do on R&D... obviously they failed that process with their own product. Having said that if foam pans weren't so damn expensive and didn't take so long to acquire then I would probably transition to those instead...maybe...😏

[@ToddAndelin]

fight so hard for good clean water in homes and then we try as hard as we can to get rid of it down the drain without a single drop left behind...

[@travlangley1]

What’s your thoughts on systems like hydroblok which don’t rely upon thinset for water proofing, rather a sealant type seal. That would seam to mitigate your rational concerns about Kerdi for instance who use thinset with a membrane.

[@StarrTile]

Different methods and manufacturers have exponentially come out the last few years to come up with a better mousetrap... what you mentioned is just one of those, if I stumble on something that makes things easier and I am confident with it then I will start using it, but in the meantime I came up with this solution way before manufacturers came up with products. But at the end of the day I have to feel confident, and I'm confident with mine