How Into the Pit BREAKS the FNAF Timeline - FNAF Theory

[@The4thSnake]

I've always wondered if Scott, as a religious man, meant "canon" in the biblical sense, leaning more towards the notion of being official than towards continuity. As if the books and games and movies can be equated to the four gospels, which aren't all consistent, but do come together to give a clearer picture of the overall narrative through different perspectives.

[@uwusions]

Love this theory - I feel like Scott's perspective and headspace when making the games could give soooo much insight into how story bits fit together.

[@IDsFantasy]

Interesting!

[@rikuaotsuki6353]

I think he's actually pretty clear about that. It also gets compared to comic books, where there's often multiple "canon" timelines. It actually bugs me a little, because when FANS ask about canon, they're pretty consistenty asking to confirm details about the game continuity. Not only did he sidestep the question, but he essentially forced a fairly inconvenient shift in the language needed to discuss the subject. There are so few "confirmed canon to the game continuity" details in this series that it feels almost cruel.

[@klaykid117]

I always took it as more of a comic book multiverse type thing like yes what happens in DC's Earth 1 and Earth 2 are Canon to each other Because they do cross over sometimes but just because Batman retires in Earth 2 doesn't mean that he retires in Earth 1.

[@Pulsarnix]

What we missed! ID, your MatPat is showing.

[@I_The_grim_REAPER_I]

Where ?!!?!?!

[@Pulsarnix]

@@I_The_grim_REAPER_I On the Thumbnail

[@pimple6380]

@@Pulsarnix That was a Spongebob reference

[@Yuki.starler]

@@pimple6380not what they meant-

[@pimple6380]

@@Yuki.starler I meant the "where" comment was Patrick's follow up

[@sadiesadiemlady]

I love how your new sprites are kinda a mix of the og and the hired art sprites. It really shows how much your art has improved!

[@honeyybutter]

what happened with the sprites

[@sadiesadiemlady]

@@honeyybutter she used to have someone else draw them but she switched back to drawing them herself

[@IDsFantasy]

Thanks!!!

[@sadiesadiemlady]

@@IDsFantasy omg you’re welcome!!!

[@savnana3605]

I always use books as stand alone "this COULD happen in this universe" to show us the rules / expectations, not the literal what happened.

[@jakeblitzcoffie4859]

Me to. I completely agree.

[@auntdede6780]

This is EXACTLY it. I’ve struggled to verbalize this but this is exactly how I feel.

[@jakeblitzcoffie4859]

@stick7962 No, they don't. They treat themselves as an AU version of events parallel to the games. The timelines don't match up, and the characters don't all follow the same paths.

[@jakeblitzcoffie4859]

@stick7962 Tales is different. But the Fazebear Frights books aren't canon with the continuity of the games. There are too many plot holes and events that don't line up, as well as characters that don't even exist in the game universe.

[@jakeblitzcoffie4859]

@@stick7962 Oswald, Andrew, Sarah, Etc. All characters that don't exist in the games. And Into the Pit doesn't count, as it's based off the book series and not the game series.

[@Lightman0359]

I have been brewing a Theory I call FazProp [Fazbear Propaganda]. While it probably is NOT Scott's plan, it seems to be what Steel Wool is trying to tell. Basically the main gameplay from the 6 OG games [anything that shows up in Help Wanted or Tales/Frights] is what HW says on the tin: Games by an indie dev, sponsored by Fazbear Inc to make light of and distract from the actual crimes [like how someone with no concept of history in the 80's can think Jeffery Dahmer only exists in Netflix]. The things that are NOT remade in the Steel Wool games, specifically the 8-bit mini-games, are, similar to the pre-tales interpretation of Glitch Trap, haunted copies of the games that we as players get a hold of, the ghosts trying to tell us the real story [with us, the players being 4th wall break inserts into the story]. Using this logic, anything that gets a cameo in SW games, like Fetch, Scrap Trap, Scrap Baby etc, is a fictional in-universe distraction story, similar enough to be used to deny the actual events. Under this premise, the Fazbear Frights books [and possibly the Tales books] were in-universe tie-in merch, possibly in the form of comic books [based on Gregory's comic book page endings], in this case for Fazbear's Fright, the actual location that the in-universe FNaF3 analog [and the What We Found story] was based on. The actual location was probably either an ongoing thing, or a seasonal haunted house. This is why there are clusters of analogous characters like Ennard/Stitchwraith/Tangle [although Stitchwratth is alternatively analogous to Golden Freddy, and the Tangle/Blob can be a version of the Afton Agony Amalgam / TrashTrap]. There was an in-universe thing that we might see in a Steel Wool game [probably the Mimic...] that all those book things were based on. Why would ScrapTrap and other things that only Henry and Michael saw have merch and arcade games [and be named as such] if they weren't fictional distractions [but still loosely based on actual events]? Yes there are holes, and I am not sure what to specifically to with the Epilogues [Stitchwraith/Mimic] and their related stories yet. They may be the book equivalent of the haunted arcade games, where only our copy in-universe has them, not the in-universe release copies, like how the copy of the Security Logbook just happened to be previously owned by Michael Afton and haunted by his brother and one of William's victims.

[@IDsFantasy]

I mean, the whole point of Help Wanted was they were passing off real events as fictional, so I do think the events of the VR games were real, but that's fair

[@psychosplatterstudios619]

My theory is that Talegames wasn’t originally canon, but when Scott and Steal Wool had to course correct after the blunder that was Scott’s handling of Security Breath, they used Tales from the Pizzaplex as a blueprint. I agree with John Fuhnaff that the mimic was probably always intended, with multiple references so a mysterious unnamed animatronic being used for free labor. But when Security Breach realised the way it did, they used the Minic from Tales that we were already familiar with instead of whatever it was originally supposed to be.

[@thatoneguy609]

Even if they did use Tales as a blueprint, I’m still not sold on Tales itself existing in the mainline continuity now. Largely because of how they introduced the Mimic in Ruin in a way that _really_ does not line up well with Tales. We’re told explicitly by Gregory that the Mimic has been trapped down here for “a REALLY long time” (he doesn’t even say “I think”, this is stated as though it’s something he knows for a fact), and we encounter a security system created for it that’s designed to look like 80s-era technology. This strongly implies that the Mimic was down in this bunker (even if not trapped in that specific room until recently) for around *50* years. Meanwhile Tales depicts it being brought to the FFPS location _during the Pizzaplex’s construction,_ which would only allow it to have been down here for about *5* years by the time of Ruin. This is on top of the Mimic being described as a super complex endoskeleton comparable to the Glamrock endos in the epilogues, whereas in Ruin his design is dramatically more simple. Tales may have been the blueprint, but I think they diverged quite a bit.

[@Mizuna752]

@@stick7962 You are confusing canon with being similar. Elseworld DC comics are events that happen and often times similar to "canon" continuity but they aren't the canon timeline. That's the case with tales. They are events that happen but are not "canon" because they are slightly apart from what actually happened.

[@Mizuna752]

@@stick7962 The Movie is an example of an alternate timeline. The events are similar but not the same. What evidence do you have they are canon?

[@0celot8]

Talesgames feels canon, while I don't think FrightsGames makes any sense.

[@Mizuna752]

@@stick7962 In what way? All it does is say it takes place after the events seen in the game.

[@qryptid]

So "Stitchline Games" could now mean a series of games based on the Stitchwraith storylines instead of, or confusingly in addition to, the current meaning

[@IDsFantasy]

Yeah lol

[@shacharlem4424]

It's stated in the early synopsis' of the tales of the pizzaplex books that the stories are set in the world of the "newest games." The Fazbear frights and interactive novels are what I believe is "some are, some don't, I'm sure you can figure it out" while the original novel series trilogy was "those specific events didn't happen in the games but we have clues for you to decipher the games".

[@UnoriginalJokester]

I'd like to address the spinoff thing: While Scott didn't correct Dawko calling it a spinoff, I don't think that effectively proves it's not mainline. Help Wanted was originally intended to be a fun novelty VR game before it was expanded into a full-on game. So even if Help Wanted is mainline now, calling it a spinoff technically wouldn't be incorrect. It's only fair that we should apply the same logic to Into The Pit, since Scott also said it "turned into this big, full fledged full sized game." Considering Into The Pit presents itself as mainline, even if it was originally intended to be a spinoff, I think it's safe to say it is mainline now

[@IDsFantasy]

The thing is Into the Pit was called a spin-off after it was finished, and Help Wanted wasn't meant to never reach the fan base initially. I personally don't think ITP presents itself as mainline, but to each their own

[@UnoriginalJokester]

@@IDsFantasy That doesn't really change anything. It's still the same situation. They both started off as one-off novelty things that eventually expanded into something more. The exact specifics of how that happened with either entry don't matter in the bigger picture. And like I said, calling Help Wanted a spinoff technically wouldn't be incorrect, so ITP being called a spinoff doesn't mean anything either ITP presents itself as mainline just as much as every other mainline game does

[@CatOnVenus183]

@@IDsFantasy fnaf world is a canon spinoff lol

[@IDsFantasy]

Never said a spinoff couldn't be. Just that it put it into a grey zone

[@Cross_Corp64]

Personally, Scott should’ve just come out and say something about future installments and at least give us simple hints with what’s going on in the FNAF lore. I’m just tired of this book debate and this anniversary made me stop caring about it. I’m rather gonna make up theories not because I want to solve the lore, but mainly I enjoy this franchise so much and I want to see more FNAF content in the future. One thing is… ever since VIP came out, I completely went through a breakdown of the Tales Games tsunami because that book seemed to imply Tales Games- when it Into the Pit Game came out early, I was going to give up and leave on the community and lore because of admitting defeat for good. But then when I heard about Stitchline Reboot, I end up coming back and decided to hang out by NOT caring about the book debate. I really enjoyed this video even though I’m a Stitchline Reboot believer. But I’m really curious for you to talk about VIP and talk about how it has affects the Gameline. I love your content btw

[@seeskittyplay3620]

It feels like the theme of the future games being the Ripple effects caused by the Aftons is also being done with agony manifestations. It's odd to me that most agony fueled stuff is just... mimicking the event that made them? Also glad you're on the haunted games train! That ties in with help wanted and keeps the spooky supernatural elements as well as the AI stuff. I like the idea of AI learning from ghosts for some reason 😅

[@Sonicmid]

One interesting thing someone pointed out is that the story of into the pit actually might be an in universe parallel with midnight motorist Pit trap believes Oswald is his son and Oswald keeps running back a restaurant Oswald is strangely connected to foxy So I guess mike runaway is true

[@justice8718]

One issue is that Oswald’s father has a Freddy mask, the character tied to Freddy.

[@0celot8]

yo its the andrew games d rider

[@0celot8]

I've told you mike runaway is the only one that makes sense for so long. Also William MM was confirmed it FLAF.

[@Sakachi18]

So happy to see a full video on this. Thank you for giving us a broader perspective on such a pivotal game from such a pivotal year in the franchise.

[@IDsFantasy]

No problem!

[@zgmfx-09a]

love how you said "the yellow rabbit killing six kids" instead of "the mci" good attention to detail

[@IDsFantasy]

Yeah, I feel like people ignore the fact that in Into the Pit the kids weren't really missing at all lol

[@zgmfx-09a]

@@stick7962 yeah its important to realize the game doesnt take place in 1985 it takes place in an agonized corrupted memory of 1985 likely in oswalds/whoever is in the pits head

[@andrewwilliams9063]

The Westbrook stuff just FEELS wrong. Like it’s way too overboard and not something Scott would even take into consideration.

[@IDsFantasy]

I mean he took into consideration the Hurricane stuff, and made sure the towns mentioned nearby were accurate for the novel trilogy. Why wouldn't he have just named it Hurricane Middle School if that's where it was meant to be?

[@loganentertainment1814]

Into the Pit could explain why we see Freddy, Bonnie, and Chica, but not foxy. Modern FNAF seems to be about the people who were affected by Aftons evil, and the bullies from FNAF 4 were the ones that caused some of it. It explains Springbonnie’s voiceline where he says, “I’ll make you suffer just like I did”, which is referring to making Oswald suffer, so his dad can suffer like he did. It also could explain why we find a Freddy mask, and that Oswald somehow knows about the looks of Freddy and the gang, despite never going to Freddy fazbears. Michael Afton was the one who wore the foxy mask, and since he hardly shows up, it’s a reflection that Michael is out of the picture, but his 3 bully friends are still around. It’s a stretch, but it’s not far off. I do love modern Fnaf’s take. FNAF 1-4 was about the evil deeds and aftermath of Williams sins, with Sister Location - UCN is the conclusion to everything, then we get Help Wanted and the future releases which seem to dig up the past, while telling a new story to characters who are reflections of past characters, while also bringing back characters we never thought about. I do love how Modern FNAF is doing this!!!! 😱😀👍

[@IDsFantasy]

It's pretty neat

[@loganentertainment1814]

Indeed it is.

[@Sonicmid]

The game got confirmed to be in the mainline continuity because the devs had to remove some stuff to fit with the main lore DJ surf even said that If the game wasn’t cannon they wouldn’t have had to cut anything since none of it affects the main lore And there’s a return to the pit book which is coming out which is a part of book series that is actually confirmed to be canon and the writer says return to the pit connect to the main into the game

[@LimboTheWatcher]

A couple of points. The devs might have had to remove stuff to fit into lore, but that doesn't mean fit into continuity. The FNaF continuities generally have a shared set of established mechanics and key events, it is very possible the Devs might've thought of something which wouldn't fit into that shared lore. Secondly, the interactive novels are not shown to actually be interconnected but instead separate stories attached to specific parts of the FNaF series. To prove they are all the same continuity, you need... well... proof that they are, of which I haven't seen any beyond the fact that Amazon numbers their releases.

[@IDsFantasy]

Not sure how that confirms it to be mainline. How do you know things weren't removed to make it fit canon, not continuity? It is canon technically. Things would have been cut that would have made the story not fit. For example, whatever the heck Vanny was doing in the files The Week Before is confirmed to be in the game continuity. The rest of the series isn't necessarily, as rather than having an overarching plot like Frights or Tales, they're grouped seemingly solely based on format. And yeah I'd assume that Return to the Pit would connect to the Into the Pit game

[@christophergirardi8145]

Very interesting! Another thing to consider why Into the Pit isn't or can't be in the main game continuity is the implication of Afton throwing the Spring Bonnie suit in the ball pit to hit the evidence (Spring Bonnie being the only thing that's real also doesn't have a body inside) instead of the animatronic being left in the backroom to get boarded up.

[@IDsFantasy]

Interesting... especially since Afton in The Man in Room 1280 doesn't have the suit at all

[@Caramel6027]

When I heard 'But hey,' I knew you were gonna make that joke 😅. Also, I think it is interesting to think that somebody's memory of Afton is a monster bunny thing, adult or kid. But that's my take on it, at least. For all we know in that continuity he WAS a monster bunny thing. (Imagine. I honestly don't know which would be scarier, a golden bunny monster version of Afton, or ACTUAL Afton. I'll take the bunny, cause he doesn't always come back).

[@Caramel6027]

Also, the little Freddy plushie on your desk in the little cartoon thing (there is probably a name for the cartoon facecam things, but I can't remember it) is adorable!!

[@Blastham]

The memory of the yellow rabbit being a monster is not far fetched. The game tell us that they knew that someone used the spring bonnie suit during the mci, so the memory of the people would make the yellow rabbit a monster since there isn't someone to directly point at

[@Caramel6027]

@@Blastham That's true

[@Freedom-yv8gv]

This is how I interpret the books It show stories that makes us question some events or makes us think more of a little detail That includes book that goes detail on characters

[@shyguymike]

Oh my, you pronounced the city’s name properly _and_ mentioned that the flag changed. As a Utah enjoyer, colour me impressed! I also never considered that Westbrook could be a street. I had previously assumed Stitchwraith Stingers storyline must take place in Maine. That is a very interesting interpretation, I like that a lot. Although I overall do not expect this to be an overly convincing point for most people. I have seen people argue that Mr. Scott B. Cawthon is moving away from referencing real places in his works. Think to _The Scoop_ in _Five Nights at Freddy's : Fazbear Frights #12: Felix the Shark_ (2022) for instance, where Amanda Mason visits a Utah settlement named Peace Valley, which is completely fictional. Even the original description of Hurricane is not particularly accurate, seeing as _Five Nights at Freddy's: The Silver Eyes_ (2015) described it having a forest, which is very much false for the real location. For these reasons one could reasonably argue that a fictional street named Westbrook could exist in this forest having Hurricane. Or even that the fictional school could be named after someone named Westbrook, which is a real family name. I think your primary point in the video is very much interesting, Miss Identification Document Fantasy, do not get me wrong, but ultimately I very much doubt it will convince a lot of people.

[@Ender-01o]

ShyGuyMike spotted 👀

[@shyguymike]

@@Ender-01o I am like a cryptid. Only occasionally seen in the wield.

[@IDsFantasy]

Thanks! It's not actually a street, it's a neighborhood, but otherwise fair. I will say I do get that perspective, but The Scoop was scrapped, and even if the landscaping of Hurricane is inaccurate, the general locations are accurate that are established in the books and the games, and I don't see why Scott wouldn't have just called it Hurricane Middle unless it wasn't in Hurricane. But yeah. Honestly I didn't expect to convince a ton of people no matter what evidence I gave. People have the theories they like, myself included, and will often just try to interpret things in a way that's most convenient for what they already believe. Oh well. I am glad you thought the video was interesting!

[@blueberryelf1150]

I think you have waaaaay to much faith in the developers and Scott getting every single detail exactly right. Sometimes, things just aren't communicated well. Just look at what Scott had to say about SB.

[@IDsFantasy]

The thing is Scott was more involved with the development of the Frights stories it seems, and honestly, while I get what you mean, I think there comes a point where if you write off every single detail that doesn't work as a mistake, how do you know you aren't writing off something intentional?

[@blueberryelf1150]

@IDsFantasy yea, I totally get where you are coming from, I just find it odd releasing a game based on a book with Scott, knowing about the books games debate and NOT having it be in continuity. I just seem... weird??? Idk the word for it.

[@IDsFantasy]

@@blueberryelf1150 I get it yeah

[@blueberryelf1150]

@@IDsFantasy hoping SOTM can give more context on book continuity

[@DragoSonicMile]

Freddy Fazbear: Into the Five-Nights-Verse! Every piece of FNAF media is canon, but the details that don't match up one-to-one are things that happen in parallel universes. But, I'm just guessing.

[@LeoPerkk]

OG style ID is back

[@Trunks1stApprentice]

This is the only channel I watch for FNaF lore.

[@IDsFantasy]

I'm glad you like the channel!

[@anjellogames]

Completely agree with the fact Into The Pit is NOT within the same continuity of the game universe. I’m very excited for Mega Cat to work on a sequel! This game was so well made and had an absolute blast playing it. Great video!

[@IDsFantasy]

Thank you!

[@CameronF305]

IDs Fantasy dropping bangers has just become the norm

[@IDsFantasy]

XD

[@drtremor]

Well, it’s all canon. It’s all from Scott’s mind. 😳 🤣🤣 But, I agree. I think this game is not supposed to be a canon to the other games or the books, but a retelling of the book, and just a fun spin off game.

[@IDsFantasy]

Exactly!

[@Sock-Monster-Simian]

I really appreciate having additional evidence one way or the other on the continuicity of the game of "Into the Pit." Loose speculation or "feelings" about certain aspects of the franchise are important and sometimes necessary, but it can also be frustrating only having this basis of "I believe it to be the case."

[@IDsFantasy]

Yep

[@rhys1927]

I agree with the overall theory, although I would say that the evidence surrounding Utah and the location of Westbrook Middle School is a bit weak to be the main piece of evidence proving that Into the Pit isn't in the game continuity. The world of FNAF is obviously based off of real life, just as you've shown with Utah being a prominent location in the franchise, but that does not mean that the real life locations have to match up one to one. Just like how FNAF pizzerias don't actually exist in Utah, Westbrook Middle School can just as easily be a fictional school. Not to say that it's not a interesting bit of supporting evidence, but by itself, it doesn't really hold up as a 'main' piece of evidence. Besides from that little nitpick, great video!

[@IDsFantasy]

See, my thought process there is that since Freddy's is supposed to be in Hurricane, why even name the school Westbrook if you're going with a fictional name? Idk if there is a Hurricane Middle, but why not call it that? The name Westbrook seems intentional given Scott kept the Washington County stuff wholely consistent and there was an irl Westbrook Elementary

[@meltedtost4680]

@@IDsFantasymaybe it’s just me but Westbrook seems like a generic fictional school name you’d fine in a movie and by that logic midnight motorist can’t be cannon because it takes place in a forest and those aren’t near hurricane

[@handz8398]

I sincerely doubt oswald's school not being real is significant proof that itp isn't canon to the games. It would be an absolutely terrible idea for him to use a real location like that, it would potentially encourage people to trespass, which is especially bad when its something like a school that has children there all day. And has he ever used a specific, real life location in anything fnaf other than hurricane utah itself??? It's just not good evidence, the rest of the video is really good though!

[@IDsFantasy]

The thing is pretty much every other continuity does have real locations, and the school is shut down. The movie is Granite Falls, Minnesota (Sparky's is an actual place btw), the game has Washington County, and the Trilogy has Hurricane and I believe it's school, New Harmony, and I think Silver Reef? I just don't see why Scott wouldn't have called it Hurricane Middle School, but instead name it after a different place that does exist unless that was important. Glad you liked the rest of the video!

[@azimuddin1890]

Why can’t Scott just confirm the connection of the Fazbear Frights books and the main games? Seriously, just one Reddit post would help everyone.

[@LimboTheWatcher]

If I were cynical, I would say that leaving this ambiguous gives people more incentive to buy the books from both sides, one trying to debunk their place in the main continuity, the other trying to prove their place in the main continuity. I am not cynical though, thankfully that phase died in 2020, so I get the feeling Scott just doesn't want to confirm such a major part of theorising through a Reddit post. Especially with SOTM coming up, we could likely see something close to confirmation as to which side is correct.

[@cjaawesome616]

@@LimboTheWatcher in my opinion it being vauge is good because both sides of the argument can be right. If you want to interpret the books as canon you can and if you don't want to you also can. Everyone wins

[@QuestionDeca]

Honestly, I've come to the conclusion that FNAF has become more akin to a Lovecraftian Mythos, in that the stories are all part of the Mythos, but not really all that often connected to one another (or even same universe). I've also come to the conclusion that this fact actually solves why "Security Breach: Ruin" doesn't seem to cleanly follow "Five Nights at Freddy's: Security Breach". This belief is actually helped by the Dawko Annniversary interview revealling that Scott's story never actually made it to Steel Wool for the production of the main game, I think RUIN follows Scott's Story, not Steel Wool's, but they do occur in the same Mythos and still affect one another.

[@IDsFantasy]

I think Ruin takes Steel Wool's story and guides it back in the direction of Scott's. I don't think it rules out anything in SB from being in the continuity

[@QuestionDeca]

@@IDsFantasy I don't think it ignores or decanonizes anything, but I think it's more like both are just now "Tales from the Pizzaplex", the Security Breach happened, but no particular ending matters or connects to Ruin because how the tale ended isn't as important as it occurring in the first place (despite Steel Wool's endings being fairly incompatible with each other). I also think Steel Wool, Scott, and Vanny in universe used Game Design to trick basically everyone in the theorist community (including myself) about what was going on in the Plex during RUIN but that's a completely different matter.

[@kubaxwot4629]

WEE WOO WEE WOO Peak is here Also Good job with speedruning this video before the second GT-NOT-Live episode with you came out

[@IDsFantasy]

Thank you XD

[@LimboTheWatcher]

Honestly, another absolute banger of a video. I genuinely forgot that 6 did have a set location and would've never thought to try and link this to the locations in the books/ITP game.

[@IDsFantasy]

Thank you! And yeah, I forgot as well until I was working on this video lol

[@UnprovenAssumptions]

This is so unrelated to anything, but love that you pronounced “Hurricane” in Utah correctly! 😁

[@IDsFantasy]

I'm glad XD

[@Finnegan_Floof]

you saw and replied to one of my comments before on how the 2 endings of help wanted 2 can't both be canon since a time paradox would occur, so maybe you'll see this one too. So- and you might have already thought about this before, but i just want to mention it since i don't really see anyone talking about it- golden freddy isn't evident to even be in the fnaf 6 fire. the main 4 were broken down and melted into remnant and injected into the funtimes, eventually meeting and then separating from elizabeth (circus baby) leading to molten freddy (the original 4) and scrap baby being in the fnaf 6 labyrinth. scrap trap is obviously wiliam, we play as michael, lefty contains charlie, and henry is in a room nearby. none of these characters contain golden freddy. i think this could potentially answer the question; "how can cassidy trap william in ultimate custom night but the others cannot?" it's not really known if the others have actually moved on or are still present and hidden in the newer games, but if they have moved on, cassidy hasn't, and could be able to trap william in UCN due to still being a roaming spirit. i think this claim could be supported by how andrew in Room 1280 is visible to all of the nurses and is roaming the hospital while also keeping the corpse alive. it's able to protect william's body to preserve it so it can remain in torment, because it's still a physical spirit. what are your thoughts?

[@HexisVonSpade]

"the books are canon in the same way the games are" is a strange way to word it... so either we take the games and books at face value (which doesnt make sense), but to me, that wording seems to imply that both have bits of truth in them, but neither are a perfect 1 for 1 of what happened. with that in mind for the VR games, saying that the earlier games might have exaggerated what happened... brings back the "nuggets of truth" that might be spread around. the things that they all agree on are definitely the most important footholds we have, and the things that are similar between them all are definitely important to consider. i feel like into the pit (both versions) was made as a way to tie together what we should be looking at, like an official nudge that both are of the same importance in some way.

[@yoavboaz1078]

14:14 I would say the most logical solution is that Westbrook middle school is a made up place that isn't referring to the real world

[@IDsFantasy]

Why not call it Hurricane Middle School if it's supposed to be in Hurricane? Particularly since he's used real world places before. Totally fine if you think differently from me, but I don't think it should be written off

[@paydaygh9388]

In I.T.P., why do we see the bodies night 1, then on later nights see the main cast acting strange, but we are always able to hide inside Golden Freddy? I’d like to hear everyone else’s opinions. Personally I think it’s because Cassidy was removed from G.F. or never placed inside in the first place, as I believe Henry was still wearing G.F. by this point. The reason I believe that is my personal bias that Midnight Motorist is about how Henry as G.F. is luring CC away from his home to keep him away from William.

[@artofcosplay]

The memories in the pit are distorted and twisted. On later nights we don't see the police or any trace of it so we can't take everything from 80's gameplay literally(but easter eggs, lore elements etc are should be taken literally)

[@agony_addict]

ID when I tell her that Freddy's doesn't exist Irl in the same place so FNaF isn't canon to itself (the logic that ultimately is used to say that ITP is not in continuity is extremely bad 😭):

[@verified9351]

she wasn’t even arguing that dawg😭 if you’re gonna criticize her make it actually constructive instead of not responding to her real point

[@meltedtost4680]

@@verified9351her logic is that since a school in the game isn’t in a real life city the game can’t be cannon that’s like me saying Freddy Fazbears isn’t in Utah hurricane so fnaf isn’t cannon to fnaf

[@IDsFantasy]

I literally said it was in a real life city, just not Hurricane

[@meltedtost4680]

@@IDsFantasy I worded what I said wrong when I said real life city I mean hurricane which is still not great evidence since every description of hurricane in fnaf has never been accurate to it

[@agony_addict]

@@verified9351 she says that because a school exsists irl outside of an area which FNaF takes place in ITP simply isn't in game continuity, I'm not even gonna sit here and argue as to why this is a terrible way to theorize (and yes I know this is just part of the video but this drags it down to "what the actual hell did I just watch?" territory) and instead I'll just pull out what every FNaF novel/book says by itself lolz: "This book is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places, and incidents are either the product of the author's imagination or are used fictitiously, and any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, business establishments, events, or locales is entirely coincidental."

[@hydranoid4940]

Welcome back we missed you

[@aromaladyellie]

The thing I don’t like about the books being super canon to the main continuity, is how much my suspension of disbelief goes out the window with 3D glasses that make you see Ballora hunting you down

[@IDsFantasy]

Fair enough lol

[@Arkham13v]

When i heard it was a spin-off game, i assumed that, unless it's proven otherwise, the spin-off games aren't necessarily in same timeline as the mainline games. Good to know you think it isn't 👍

[@Sonicmid]

It is confirmed Canon? DJ and the Dev said they had to remove some stuff because it didn’t fit with the lore

[@nota444tm2]

​@@Sonicmid that doesn't mean canon. that just means it didn't fit with the lore of fnaf. is there any real confirmation where they say "it's canon to the games universe" and not just speculation and hopeful guessing?

[@Phantomjoeseph]

My opinion this is one of the rouge inde developer ( older Oswald) games like the ones that “ discredited the faz bear legacy” as mentioned in help wanted but the book version is the real story

[@IDsFantasy]

Interesting, though that still has the whole Westbrook issue

[@Phantomjoeseph]

@@IDsFantasy yea good point on a side note have you thought of doing a q and a for 200k subs?

[@shello45]

"what we missed" in the thumbnail... "that's just a theory"... maybe *i* got transported to a different timeline

[@IDsFantasy]

Thought it would be funny to reference Game Theory since the video released in close proximity to me being on GTLive lol

[@rrrrrr-yo7sz]

I feel like the interactive novel coming out about Into The Pit will clarify a lot about whether it’s in continuity or not.

[@IDsFantasy]

Possibly!

[@mewtwogamer2495]

Your basically thinking the same thing I am. On the canonicity of the books that is. I was think the books ant canon but some of the plots in the books are. I'm not just talking about the Fazbear frights books, but also the silver eyes novels. I believe that Fazbear fights books, and the silver eyes novels are somewhat connected. I also believe that Circus Baby, and Scrap Baby aren't the same animatronic. Which I am planning to make a video on my channel at some time to explain why I think that.

[@IDsFantasy]

Interesting

[@tsume_akuma8321]

In the worst, most unsatisfying, way possible, I think that the book stories are nearly all of the time, "things that could have happened" or "things that parallel stories of "our" timeline". They are parallels, they show us rules, situations, concepts and themes that could exist within the game, our, timeline.

[@Normania-is-here]

I honestly hope they are personally

[@YellowSkarmory]

8:27 YES THANK YOU FOR THIS POINT i can't see scott's storytelling philosophy changing that much that this quote isn't still relevant. this is a personal opinion of scott's that seems pretty unlikely to significantly change. another great vid, well done )

[@IDsFantasy]

Thank you!

[@Vladimir_Lemin]

The FNAF lore is incredibly detailed and layered, with numerous spin-offs, side games, and books adding more depth to the story. Each game reveals new pieces of the puzzle, making the lore an ongoing mystery for fans to decipher. However, predicting the future of the FNAF lore involves a mix of known elements and speculation about where the story might go based on existing themes.

[@IDsFantasy]

Yep

[@Shyder]

Yeah, I see the books as some kind of « This is possible in this universe » and also parallels to characters and events in the game. Although, it isn’t impossible that some events in the games could be similar to some stories in the books. Not the Exact same, but close.

[@IDsFantasy]

Yep!

[@rotinasemroteiro]

My "problem" with this story is that if it's only a memory/vision/whatever in that sense, it's ok, we can deal with it. I personally like the idea that the place is full of powerful emotions connected to this event and Oswald is just seeing them; but if it's actually a time travel, as the marketing made it seems, the things gets really weird. 😅

[@IDsFantasy]

Yeah lol

[@kinglee4131]

not many people make books based on games. and then make games based on the books. all we need now is a game based on the movie and we've come full circle.

[@IDsFantasy]

XD

[@connormarchand6302]

So that’s the deal people have with using the books as lore, makes a bit more sense now

[@IDsFantasy]

I'm glad!

[@GEONEgaming]

Loving the new artstyle

[@IDsFantasy]

Thanks! I figured I'd switch back to doing all the channel art myself, so I'm glad you like it :D

[@drtremor]

ID’s back!! 😊 (I’ll watch this later)

[@Twistedslop62]

I have a love hate relationship with this game. I’d like to add I think that what goes on in the ball pit IS time travel. Because things you do in the pit, affect what happens in the present.

[@IDsFantasy]

I actually have a different reason for that! I think since the building is haunted, it makes sense that the supernatural things effect the normal stuff, just like how posters and stuff can change in FNAF 1 sorta thing

[@Wizardjones69]

11:17 its not a accurate mci, its a warped memory made by the agony on the pit which explains the 6th victim and the bodies being scattered

[@IDsFantasy]

I mention that in the video, but also I don't see the point of an arbitrary 6th victim that wasn't actually there unless it was in fact there

[@SushiWolfYT]

I loved this game so much. Got 30 hours and almost all achievements in a week’s time and I can’t wait for more from Mega Cat Studios

[@IDsFantasy]

Heck yeah!

[@jamilquinones2499]

A GAMEEEE THEORYYYYYYY 😂 we love to hear it, I love this though

[@IDsFantasy]

I'm glad!

[@TheCrell]

Scott has ocarina of time'd the fnaf timeline with this time travel

[@SatinPolar]

Only canon thing from ItP is Oswald's Dad fate. But like not the in game one. Only that he have a son. You kniw the Freedy Bully

[@galactic06]

I don't like the Freddy bully theory, at least the way game theory presented it. The only bit of evidence towards it was the Freddy mask, with the rest of the video bending evidence to fit a preconceived conclusion, rather than the evidence leading towards that conclusion. Like, Mega Cat Studios was not measuring the pixels on the monitor so that they could point people towards Oswald's Dad being the Freddy Bully.

[@zenvariety9383]

Well, Oswald's dad could be Henry's eldest son. Haven't played the game yet, but it would make sense if the Freddy bully and Sammy Emily were the same person.

[@nationalpv]

@@galactic06 It’s not like the Bonnie Bully theory where it actually has more than the mask for it. There’s more evidence for that to make it work. The Freddy Bully theory is a bit eh. I think it needs a bit more to stand on before it can walk.

[@wyattrox11]

Finally, another ID’s Fantasy video proper. Glad to have ya

[@IDsFantasy]

:D

[@tenderlots2180]

In a better world, the game Into the Pit would take place in its own universe or a separate continuity from the main games However, Scott has given a lot of relevance to this story with 4 different versions for some reason... (the original book, graphic novel, the game, and the upcoming interactive novel 'Return to the Pit') So I still believe that Into the Pit takes place in the same universe and continuity as the other games

[@IDsFantasy]

See, I get that, but the description of the interactive novel implies it's just because it's a "popular story". Imo, the whole Westbrook thing and all the other more noticeable contradictions Frights and the Stitchwraith stories have with the games (the Puppet getting dumped in a lake when we know the mask ends up in the Blob in SB, the whole FNAF 3 in one day thing, Funtime Freddy chilling in some dude's garage instead of Ennard/Molten Freddy, etc) makes it sorta have to be separate

[@ImmortalAbsol]

The plane from the movie could totally just exist as a toy in the game universe.

[@IDsFantasy]

Like I said, I'm not counting that for this video

[@shadefn1591]

Love you vids keep making more

[@ImmortalAbsol]

The game was always "intended to be in the hands of the fanbase", just not digitally, as a limited physical release.

[@IDsFantasy]

I was going off of how Scott said "so we obviously decided to venture away from strictly the cartridges so that everybody can be able to play it", but fair enough. Either way though, it wouldn't make much sense for something that was always intended to be a main game would be a limited edition thing for a console that most people don't have (given 16-bit and all)

[@FlyGlint_FNAF]

THANK YOU!!!! I made a very similar video to this and got dragged by Stitchwraith believers. 😂

[@IDsFantasy]

No problem! Can't say I'm surprised 😅

[@raxsavvage]

a game based on the books, based on the games oh.... that hurt to actually type out

[@stiletteleray1326]

It confuses the heck out of me how the FNAF fandoms uses the terms canon and continuity. It’s fine to use words how you wish/eclectically but a lot of talking past each other happens because the creator was loose with his words to his mostly young fandom.

[@IDsFantasy]

Yeah, it takes some getting used to

[@PugGrumbler]

I just realized how tall pit Bonnie actually is, he’s twice the size of oz’s dad. He’s gotta be at least 10 feet tall, probably more

[@GospodinWolf]

What if the "strange fire" thing was about "What we found" story? As far as i know, it's the only fire that happened in all of these stories and had Springtrap hooked to a wall, unable to escape the fire. I will just guess that the whole timeline of the Frights takes place before Pizza Sim. Plus, the only thing that burned at Pizza Sim location was an underground ventilation system that, logically, wouldn't be accessible to anyone, even the paramedics, i bet Henry made sure of that. My point of the timeline is: Henry wants to burn William, he finds Springtrap after the FNaF 3 fire, but this time, Springtrap gets hooked to a wall, and burns down with the place. After this, he becomes the "Man in room 1280", and all of that happens. And, after dying (again) from the Puppet, he reemerges as Scraptrap with all the power he's left with.

[@IDsFantasy]

Fair, but even if it was only the lower parts of the building burned, it was still a fire site, and with the whole founder of Fazbear Entertainment thing and the Puppet, I would be astonished if it was What We Found. Plus William's body explodes prior to any of the epilogues, so I don't think it would work for him to come back after as Scraptrap

[@GospodinWolf]

@@IDsFantasy There is only one way: Afton Amalgamation didn't truly die. I can't properly explain since i haven't read the epilogues. Can you describe it to me how he died, so I'd know better? About blowing up, that's valid, but agony infested things can grow organic parts inside of them, Pit Bonnie being the example. Can't the same thing happen with the remains of Afton in the Fazbear Frights (any point in the timeline of FF) ?

[@GospodinWolf]

PS. That can also explain why Glitchtrap in Princess Quest one is a giant black rabbit, that can use tentacles to attack its victims, just like Eleanor: same creatures of agony, different sources, perhaps.

[@GospodinWolf]

@@IDsFantasy Although i have one theory how Afton could pull himself back, and could potentially explain everything but I'd need to explain it in Discord or something

[@spider_e_green7957]

You are the only FNaF Theorist that pronounces Hurricane correctly! I know it doesn't matter, but it drives me crazy when it's mispronounced. THANK YOU!

[@IDsFantasy]

No problem! It drives me crazy too XD

[@revvan2710]

plot twist, William was just slandered, and what actually killed 6 children was the yellow rabbit in into the pit

[@IDsFantasy]

XD

[@Dinodotjora]

What is your favourite Fnaf game? my favourite Fnaf game is Fnaf 2

[@MrSonicHedgehog]

Call me a filthy casual but I prefer Security Breach as I love being able to move around like I can in other games I play. Don't get me wrong, I can play and beat the other ones (save for FNaF 6) but prefer the exploration of the facility over staying in an office or bedroom

[@SapsTraposo]

Help Wanted 1 def

[@Stellar_Dusk]

Fr ​@@MrSonicHedgehog

[@IDsFantasy]

My favorite is Into the Pit tbh

[@mcpics4448]

More so than usual

[@KenchiHasikira]

I swear I was subbed, let me fix fhat

[@IDsFantasy]

Yeah KZbin sometimes just unsubscribes people I think :')

[@pokestyn]

While I disagree about the canonicity I liked the point at the end about memories lingering. Honestly I feel we can’t fully say definitively until we get return to the pit. Once we have all those pieces then I think we can address it.

[@IDsFantasy]

Honestly I'd be surprised if Return to the Pit settles it based on the track record so far, but we'll see XD. Glad you liked the end point!

[@pokestyn]

@@IDsFantasy I think the fact that it’s titled return implies that it is more than just a simple retelling to me. Cause the game can be seen as a retelling but keeps the same name

[@richardnixon846]

wake up babe, new ID Theory dropped

[@MicahGelfand]

I think the arcade games, and to an extension the games that the rogue indie developer made, have been altered by the spirits, probably Charlie to be accurate enough to be solved

[@IDsFantasy]

Possibly!

[@007axeHAWK]

Ahh a fnaf theory not over 20 min thank you ID 🙏🏽

[@IDsFantasy]

No problem XD

[@GJames-Legend101]

If they do make fazbear frights game adaptations here are there changes I want. 1. The puppet carver: instead of making it about fazgoo make it about porter and his special machine that can created wooden animatronics. 2. He told me everything: instead of fazgoo being a product made by fazbear entertainment and having it steal on your organs and identify make it more like the ooze/mutagen from TMNT perhaps a fazgoo monster that can shapeshift, also change the name of it as well. 3. In the flesh: instead of a digital springtrap getting mat pregnant make it more like it’s slowly corrupting him and trying to take form in the real world. These are just ideas.

[@zenvariety9383]

Haven't read the books, but with in the flesh they can have it be akin to the Alien series where a monster is injected and burst out of the guy's stomach.

[@ericohm9474]

I think Scott messed up when he said that everything was cannon. Like he didn't really understand what he was saying. By doing so he basically said that fnaf has multiple timeliness and universes. There is no other way to take it. It's like saying all versions of superman are cannon, the bronze, silver and golden era of superman are all cannon which creates the multiverse of DC. People are using books to try to predict the outcome of stories and solve games but you can't do that because they are different timeliness where different decisions and outcomes take place. Silver age superman does not fly he "leaps tall buildings in a single bound", that doesn't mean you can take that as evidence that modern superman can't fly, they are different realities. Scott is making this stuff up as he goes along, there is no grand design. He is like the guy who trips on his face then starts doing pushups to desperately try to make it seem like he had planned it all along.

[@Megamaster64]

This, no cap👆👆👆👆

[@fenrisnox5766]

Random crackpot theory I got as a result as Into the Pit: 1985 isn't the date of the MCI, but the DCI. The MCI likely happened much earlier, possibly before the bite of 83. If the games are canon to some degree, then it wouldn't make sense for Oswald to have seen an agony recreation the MCI, since the bodies are right there for everyone to see. One of the main themes I've seen lately is don't trust anything, so this theory of mine is a result of my personal descent into the ever maddening abyss of fnaf lore and how things we've been theorizing about for a little over 10 years at this point could be wrong. Regardless of Into the Pit possibly taking place in the fnaf 1 location (depending on what you believe) The Week Before mentions that they love to remodel the place, so who's to say they didn't remodel the fnaf 2 location after the DCI and bite of 87 closed it down and remodeled it to the fnaf 1 location as a means to cut corners?

[@IDsFantasy]

The DCI has to be in 87 due to being in the FNAF 2 location, which was only open for a couple weeks, but it's an interesting idea

[@DJFNaFMan]

Gosh I love these videos

[@IDsFantasy]

Thank you! I'm glad :D

[@ethbeatthem4836]

I don’t this this game is canon to the Timeline of the games, but is still book canon but details of this tale have similarities to game events. Ideas are similar but story and events are alter for a different narrative.

[@IDsFantasy]

Agreed!

[@existingtm]

I love how memories come into play! It's one of the better of the recent additions to FNAF IMO

[@IDsFantasy]

Yeah!

[@zeroknight1311]

With what we already know, there is precedent that Into The Pit maybe a game created in Universe. After all, the FNAF Help Wanted does have mention of an indie game dev having made games based on stuff from Fazbear Entertainment's past. Those games being versions of what Scott had made. So it is possible that ITP is the same situation. Especially since the Character Encyclopedia is also a possible instance of Fazbear creating content with the purpose of keeping the public from finding out the truth,

[@artofcosplay]

Steve from tales had created only 4 games, that are based on fnaf 1-4, hehadn't made 5th game so it's unlikely i think

[@zeroknight1311]

@@artofcosplay Steve is the guy who makes the games in the Fazbear Frights series. Someone else made the games in game canon.

[@robingames2002]

By the logic of “the game isn’t a 100% a copy of the books so it’s not canon” Using that logic we can’t use any books as information or theories because none of the books 100% match with the games so we can’t use the man in room whatever because it’s not a 100% match so any information it gives in invalid if you still use that way of thinking Personally I don’t like that type of logic because then that would mean we can’t even use the books as theory evidence either because it doesn’t match or because it’s not a copy and paste from the books to the games

[@IDsFantasy]

Quite specifically in this video I said the books were canon, so agreed. They don't have to be in continuity to be canon. Heck, apparently an interview with Matthew Lillard had him say that the MOVIE was meant to fill in lore gaps, and that thing definitely isn't game continuity

[@AuroraIceFlame]

At this point they should just treat the books in the lore like pre fnaf help wanted games. They were made to “poke fun” at the franchise but the events did actually happen just slightly different.

[@IDsFantasy]

The whole point of Help Wanted was that they were passing off real events as fictional, on to mention SB relies heavily on FNAF 1-6 having happened via Pizzeria Simulator. Imo them being in VR doesn't mean they didn't happen as shown, it's just for the sake of the irl fans

[@CamoLoTiProd]

Nice touch after you went onto GTnotLive

[@Azrael-vz7fg]

I like to think it isnt canon to the normal timeline. Its just an anniversary game.

[@IDsFantasy]

Yep

[@johanstenfelt1206]

Hm, how very interesting, i what else could added? Also, i wonder how Fetch will turn out.

[@ImmortalAbsol]

I hope the game and interactive book will align.

[@IDsFantasy]

Yeah, I'm feeling like that's probably what's going to happen

[@BotBartek]

I like to think we just have a bunch of universes under five nights at freddy's name - Mainline games, Sliver eyes, Frights, Pizzaplex (still debatable), Movie, and now Game frights. All different universes with separate stories but the same premise and rules. Also Good vid ID, keep it up game theorist

[@IDsFantasy]

Agreed! Thank you :D

[@Coreybyte]

I HAD NEVER RECOGNIZED THE FLAG IN INTO THE PIT HOLY AAAAA

[@IDsFantasy]

Glad I could point it out then!

[@nikolaytablet1394]

Everyday i'm getting closer and closer to Insanity because of FNAF

[@dannyboi1706]

The Tales From The Pizzaplex books ARE canon. Fazbear Frights is non canon and set in a different universe, though some could fit into the canon timeline. The Novel Trilogy is also set in its own universe, just like the movie. Into The Pit can technically fit into canon fnaf because the ball pit isnt actually making you go to the past, your living in the memories of the missing children, which is why Spring Bonnie is a monster, thats how the kids remember William before he killed them.

[@dannyboi1706]

@@stick7962 what do you mean? Its not set in the canon universe so it obviously is.

[@dannyboi1706]

@@stick7962 William dies in a burning building in this universe and doesnt get springlocked for one. He gets sent to a hospital where hes being kept alive by the ghost of a kid he murdered named Andrew. In the games, none of the kids he murdered were named Andrew.

[@dannyboi1706]

@@stick7962 if afton was burned in the suit, then how come in the story "The Man In Room 1280" Aftons body isnt in the suit? If it was fused to his body, surely it would be stuck in the suit. And Andrew is clingging onto him, its literally been confirmed, and "The one you shouldnt have killed" isnt Andrew, its Cassidy (The spirit possessing Golden Freddy) theres nothing in the Toy Chica anime that tells us about the dead kids.

[@dannyboi1706]

@@stick7962 oh yeah, ok i forgot the one you shouldnt have killed was a male, so ill give you that, but theres still no confirmation that it actually IS Andrew. And for William, nothing confirms that he was wearing the spring bonnie suit when he got burned. It just says he was burned in a fire. And surelly thered be some metal from the suit left after the flames went out.

[@IDsFantasy]

Actually, the whole pronouns thing imo seems to be referring to the animatronic specifically. After all, "Save him" talks about Charlie, a female spirit who possesses the male Puppet.

[@Wizardjones69]

return to the pit being on the line up same us the twb already confirmed stitchline or frights games as canon

[@LimboTheWatcher]

TWB and RTTP are not actually established to be the same continuity. They're in the same series of books, but those books have no through line. The only connection is that they are interactive novels and that Amazon has chosen to number them. Nothing states they are connected in continuity.

[@Wizardjones69]

@@LimboTheWatcher "not connected" the fnaf 1 location is said to have party room and the backstage being behind guess what, this was said on itp BEFORE week before its canon, and its on the same continuity thats just cherry picking from book deniers the survival logbook isn't canon so because it has the springlock quiz by fnaf 3 times