How Jusant Makes Rock-Climbing More Immersive

[@GMTK]

This is the most innovative game of 2023... but want to know my favourite games? GMTK supporters can get my Game of the Year list as a bonus video on Patreon ( www.patreon.com/posts/bonus-video-game-94661406 ) or a post on Substack ( gmtk.substack.com/p/my-favourite-games-of-2023)

[@Gatorboy5678]

Hi GMTK!

[@yipperdeyip]

Oh my god dude I've always complained about boring climbing/ freerunning is in games nowadays. On PS1 Tomb Raider it used to be scary as hell. I'm not even 4 minutes in, paused to comment and go to the PS store to buy this game I have no further knowledge about lol

[@anderesto2062]

If you're looking for a complex web-shooting game, you should check out AoTTG

[@zaj007]

I think The Finals could've taken the spot

[@papersoup2092]

have you considered putting your extra videos on nebula??

[@DannyBob526]

Remaking it in unity was actually pretty helpful for seeing a basic version of the game mechanics. So I think it was worth it

[@datboi1861]

I enjoy how he can now show us his versions of features he talks about. So much growth from just speaking about video games to actually understanding how to make them.

[@teasysneeze]

Also slyly advocating for people to try remaking cool mechanics as a practice

[@DreadKyller]

@@teasysneeze remaking mechanics from games is an extremely fun exercise if you're trying to get into game dev. Definitely recommend.

[@turbo8628]

​@@DreadKyller yeah, a lot of gamedev channels use games like flappy bird and pong to show people how to make basic mechanics. Walk before you can run sort of thing.

[@spacecat7827]

Hmm, making games takes a lot more time than realized. Maybe a simple animation could've speed up the process.

[@Crocogator]

I feel like Jusant did something that Death Stranding wanted to do - Take a mechanic that every other game takes for granted (Climbing/traversal) and make it the entire game. It isn't for everyone, but it's certainly meditative.

[@Illusionaire1]

I felt the same, Jusant is a meditation about climbing and Death Stranding about walking. Both lovely games

[@askhimnotme]

Sad that death stranding landed so hard on the nose with the gameplay.

[@lessersphinx3971]

@@askhimnotmenah

[@Crocogator]

@@askhimnotme Literally! *sam stumbles and lands on his face*

[@DarshanBhambhani]

Death stranding is an open world and jusant is extremely linear so

[@the_blakerson]

That personal note about developer intent and learning more and growing? Not weird at all. If anything it’s welcome modeling of empathy and humility that this youthful industry always needs more of. So, thank you. Congrats on 9y of GMTK done and an upcoming 10y anniversary. Very well deserved.

[@trgdr777]

I'm really glad you included the personal bit about recognizing developer intent. It's such an important lesson to learn for anyone interested in art or creative discipline/craft, especially in the context of critique.

[@ShiftyTheDev]

I was not expecting your discussion about developer intentions, but honestly I think that's my favorite part of the video. I think that's what really separates you from other video game "essay-ists" and makes you so enjoyable to watch; you always have somethin genuinely insightful to share. Excellent work as always!

[@Yipper64]

I think it is really interesting. Though, honestly my take is that its ok for him to have those criticisms, I think the issue is saying that his solution is the only good one. If something isnt engaging, then there's probably a better solution. But that doesnt mean said solution has to go against developer intention. Like, for spiderman, GMTK wanted it to be complex, but the intent was to make it easy for anyone to pick up immediately, so I think the solution is obvious, make an easy to learn hard to master type system. Make it something that is simple to understand but with a high skill ceiling. Probably with very similar controls to what the game already has but with sections of the map that do a lot more complex things with that system.

[@effortlessfury]

@@Yipper64 Sure, but if the developer does not care to create or provide a complex challenge for a system, there's no reason to spend valuable time creating it when it could be spent on another part of the game deemed more valuable in achieving their existing intentions. This is why I'd argue such observations aren't valid "criticism," because to be criticism is to imply that it was lacking. Lacking compared to what? And this is GMTK's point: Criticism where you're criticizing its failure to satisfy your desires isn't criticism, it's just a wish list. If a game meant to deliver an experience, and you successfully had that experience, whether or not you got the experience you wanted isn't necessarily the developer's problem and it's certainly not a failing. Perhaps, at most, it's something they didn't consider at all and, upon hearing said idea, realize it's something they could've done or can do in the future, but that's basically the same thing as GMTK's view on it being something that another developer can focus on in a future title. Another developer could technically be the same developer on a future title, as well, but that's still not a knock on the game being analyzed in the present.

[@MidlifeCrisisJoe]

Essayist is a valid compound word. It neither needs a hyphen nor quotations.

[@QuantumHistorian]

Both intention and result matter though. A game might be exactly what the developer intended, but their intention could be rubbish. There are really 3 things to judge: what the developers intended, how well they realised that intention, and the game as a standalone product. These are obviously all related, but they are distinct.

[@grey_f98]

This isn't unique, plenty of other essayists don't center their wish fulfillment or themselves as some kind of objective eye when analyzing a piece of media, but it's good that Mark can look back and see that he has grown or improved in the way he perceives games. That's really the aim for essayists and critics isn't it? To not just make others understand a medium of art or a topic better, but also to make yourself understand it better.

[@BigRatNate]

There is a beauty to spending an entire day creating a tiny part of something, and that little demo definitely shows that

[@blueyoshi4211]

I’m not surprised you didn’t mention Your Only Move is Hustle but I think it deserves a mention. It’s a fighting game inspired by old stick figure animations, but with a turn based twist. Every frame your character can act, you presented with a list of options from your character’s moveset, so that you can always preform a frame perfect input. It’s relentlessly complicated but the reason I can appreciate it is, it doesn’t ask “What if Smash Bros was a played frame by frame” it instead asks “What could a fighting game played frame by frame be like?” And so we have moves that just could not exist in a regular fighting game as the game takes full advantage of its gameplay gimmick.

[@noidea5597]

That sounds very interesting! Where can you get it?

[@gallonofcats1097]

@@noidea5597 it is at least on Steam. Maybe some other places, but I got it on steam

[@_-Lx-_]

ToriBash with 2D Stick Figures. The TAS Game genre is an interesting rarity.

[@Arcavi0us]

​@@noidea5597Steam!

[@Evoker_BipBoup]

Wait, it came out this year? I thought it was a year and a half ago 💀 my time perception is a bit messed up...

[@luqasyue9651]

Honorable mention to Astro’s playroom for doing something similar with the climbing, but going one step further with the adaptive triggers. What an underrated gem

[@t0f0021]

Didnt take me long to find this comment 😅 i knew at least one person mentioned it

[@w花b]

Since it's a demo, It doesn't get the recognition it deserves. The demo syndrome or something.

[@austin0_bandit05]

THEY'RE MAKING A FULL GAME NOW!!!!

[@BerlinTrainStation1]

My friend's husband is a professional climber and it's crazy how much skill and muscle it takes. It's cool to see a video game finally bridging the enormous gap between real climbing and boring video climbing in a meaningful way. This is on my list of games to play and now I definitely want to check it out!

[@triple_thrice]

If you have PSVR2, Call of the Mountain does what I think is a pretty solid job of capturing that feeling of climbing. My arms feel pretty tired after that game.

[@BerlinTrainStation1]

@@triple_thrice I wish I could try it, but 15+ minutes in VR gives me terrible motion sickness.

[@pwndnoob4937]

Consider checking out New Heights. It's more of a sim than Jusant, but it is really enjoyable to climb real life rocks which they've scanned and put into their game. I like the climbing mechanics more than Jusant, which is saying a lot.

[@MrEnvisioner]

As a long-time programmer & aspiring game developer myself, I can't tell you how much I appreciate the shift in perspective & empathy/respect for a studio's game design goals @ 14:08. I'd love it if more people in the world had an understanding of respecting the artistic intent of other folks' creations. And great work on this video: it's been an absolute joy to watch.

[@Lishtenbird]

As partially an artist, over the last years, so many times I've been absolutely befuddled by people's inability to consider the creator's intent for their creation. "I did it this way because that's what I want to show and tell to people who like this" - "Ohmagahd you're so dumb, that is what's popular so you should've done that, you loser". It's like the whole idea of artistic expression got completely erased from people's minds, and was replaced with the market logic of growth-first, profit-first products and services. Everything has to be unified to the latest biggest-budget trends, and individual ideas deserve to die in obscurity. Just outright disheartening.

[@bigboydancannon4325]

​@@Lishtenbirdthat's because many artists fail at properly presenting their intentions. Just because you intend for A to happen, doesn't automatically make A happen. Sometimes you get B

[@FlumpyTripod]

As someone who loves climbing, I've always wanted to see a game like this. Definitely want to check this game out

[@MrMordecaihunter]

Check out New Heights too

[@quinnmarchese6313]

the climb in VR is kinda old now, but still really cool too

[@MarkusSeidl]

@@quinnmarchese6313yeah, thought the same. The climb did this before. IIRC it’s identical, but in VR

[@misterx2133]

Check out Klifur instead. It came up very briefly in the video as well. It’s basically a puzzle game the same way bouldering is “problem solving “

[@FlumpyTripod]

@@misterx2133 interesting I'll check it out

[@Sagethe7th]

Stray Gods is a game that broke my brain a bit this year. It's an RPG that has you playing a newborn Muse, from greek myth, and you use the power of music to help others through emotional issues, as well as solve a murder. Each choice you make changes the music and the entire soundtrack to the game, so there are literally hundreds of hours of soundtrack for a game that you can complete in about 10-15 hours or so. You can go back and take different routes (through a mass effect style dialogue tree) to see how the story plays out differently if you make different choices with the soundtrack. I haven't ever seen a game do anything like that, where the choices you make change a very core component of the game, the soundtrack.

[@geordiejones5618]

Video games are in need of a few project leads who can really use the full range of multimedia as storytelling tools. More studios understanding how different forms of art work together would make all games better.

[@dontstealmydiamondsv3156]

Oh hell yeah I'll have to give that a try. For a long time I've had the idea to make a game with a soundtrack where every song is adaptive on some level, but just as a way of embellishing the game's presentation, not the logical extreme of making it the actual focal point of the whole game. That sounds incredibly awesome. Literally, i'm sure. Thanks for the recommendation

[@MadPetal]

It helps as well that the songs are amazing. Aphrodite's different song variations have made me sob like a baby. Even replaying and knowing what song I want to aim for I still tear up

[@KevinJDildonik]

​@@geordiejones5618You mean we should value project leads for artistic vision instead of prerendered CGI trailers and promises of high framerates and 16x the detail even when their studio hasn't delivered that in 20 years!? Impossible!

[@jtd8719]

At least one of the Epic Mickey games changed the instruments playing the game music depending on how much you used the paint thinner to erase things. More thinner resulted in the bass instruments in the orchestra taking over.

[@TheShadow7771]

I'm surprised GIRP wasn't mentioned, especially with the nod to QWOP. I saw that as the best mountain climbing system in regards to capturing the challenging nature. You had to use letter keys on your keyboard to reach towards various handholds, and keep the keys held down to maintain a grip on that handhold. The only other control is to press shift to flex your arms, and those are the only tools you have to wrangle the physics of your body up the mountain. There's definitely challenge and failure involved as falling has you start from the beginning unless you're lucky enough to grab something on the way down.

[@mendican]

YES. GIRP's climbing system is the GOAT A mere 20 secs into GIRP and I'm sweaty-palmed, absolutely smashing my fingers into the keyboard, triple-checking each move to make sure I'm not about to fall -- which is exactly what it's like to try climbing for the first time. That's some stunning game design: getting me to using my keyboard in tense symmetry with the game's character. Gripping our rock walls together.

[@yesnomaybe3443]

One of my favourite games 😅

[@betchaos7383]

He talks at length about GIRP in the original climbing video about TR13 he references here. It's an excellent game. Especially considering it's free in a browser.

[@harrylane4]

It’s really weird that they didn’t mention girp when talking about a game that takes so much inspiration from it. So much of what he praises here is just… stuff from girp.

Was about to mention it as well. A classic

[@brenknight4794]

You've probably already seen it, but "your only move is hustle" is a very unique and interesting spin on a classic fighting game

[@PPK3K]

I finished Jusant recently and I hope the studio behind it does more games like it, the climbing is extremely satisfying and the locations are simply Phenomenal, it doesnt often happen that I stop to just look at the scenery but this game managed it. Great game, will replay it someday to get all the collectibles.

[@tinyhammertoksvig8218]

before watching the video i'm going to guess the game is not Starfield

[@timbatimba]

Most innovative loading screens of the year

[@Veelofar]

Most creative way to increase minimum system requirements without adding to the experience.

[@Santi-vr6rm]

Neither best gameplay, story, roleplaying, graphics, performance, etc

[@PuthySlayer69420]

hehe starfield bed 😂 😝 Look guys im so cool hating on xbox game 🤣 😂 🤣 😂 🤣 pls like like I cant do anything but hate game 😔

[@AshVXmc]

You’re right its so cool

[@Dialethian]

The Climb is a vr game about climbing with a similar feel/mechanics, independent arm stamina notably, I'd recommend it.

[@KaitouKaiju]

That game also rewards you for being really precise with the amount of pressure on the hold instead of squeezing as hard as possible

[@KGmagicjj]

Came here to say this. OP should definitely check it out

[@avrelo_south]

I like the last bit on analyzing intent when considering a mechanic is good. Kinda proves that video games are apart of the art world. I think the question to ask before saying a mechanic is weak is if it’s distracting, or not fulfilling its role enough.

[@The_Cyber_System]

Love the self-reflection that you're realising intentions of developers is critical to mechanics and design - intended audience is something developers having in mind from the outset. In the course I did, we were taught that if you don't have an intended audience for your game, it's not worth making. Also to note that while most clips as well as Jusant and all the other games you showed are indeed rock climbing, the clip at 6:05 is actually bouldering. Bouldering is a somewhat different sport, despite to most people seeming the same as it involves climbing and a focus on handholds. It has a much larger competitive presence, tends towards being a very social activity, is by intent freeclimbing and very rarely involves equipment like rope or harness, and at least where I am is far more popular when comparing the number of climbing gyms facilitating each sport.

[@AlexBrowne1993]

It’s hard for me to consider this game that innovative when Grow Home did a lot of similar things years ago. I can agree with a lot of the points in the video, but it feels like the sentiment is more "I hope this game inspires others to spruce up their boring climbing" rather than "This game is truly original"

[@gogomonstertruck]

I was also going to comment Grow Home/Grow Up kinda already did this but yeah. You’re right. Here’s hoping a bit more eyes on this game does change things. Kinda like how Vampire Survivors last year was a clone of similar prior games (mostly 2021’s Magic Survival) but was the one to get a bunch of press so thus it’s attributed to being novel in its genre.

[@doughboy_6439]

Grow Home doesn't give you handles to track.

[@a92lovin]

To be honest, that's been my experience with most of the "innovative" games of 2023. Cocoon - Patrick's Parabox did it more intensely a year earlier. Chants of Sennaar - this is basically Obra Dinn with phrases rather than with people. My favorite mechanics that feel genuinely innovative this year are the implementation of Soul Jump in T'Chia, which has no fear of huge swaths of the map being traversed in seconds rather than minutes, or Fuse in Tears of the Kingdom, the game's most roundabout new mechanic that actually leads to the most actually new gameplay habits (Ultrahand mimics Minecraft and Scribblenauts by comparison.) Jusant I think does seem to have a meaningful difference from Grow Home in its use of handholds, making it a kind of marriage of that game and Bennett Foddy's browser game GIRP. What would you posit as the most innovative game of this year instead?

[@joeplavin]

I was thinking this the whole time, love both of those games

[@DingleTwit]

I was also going to say this. That game was amazing and climbing was central to it, and you really felt fully in control.

[@norfabatonas]

For me, Jusant is the type of game that shows just enough to completely intrigue your curiosity and make you want to explore the world to figure everything out. But it never tells you too much and leaves you wondering, even in the end. The developers did a great job and I hope more follow in their path. If they were inspired by Journey, I think they completely succeeded in catching that feeling. It also reminded me of Inside, or even a little of Stray.

[@Reditect]

Absolutely loved the more personal part about developer intent. Something you touch on also is accessibility. They both go hand-in-hand. I might want a more in-depth climbing mechanic, but that means I might sacrifice a portion of a playerbase. I'd also like to say, there is a drop-off when it comes to options menus. Yes, add accessibility options, but the game that the player games without changing settings should be accessible in of itself to a specific audience. (Which could be a general majority, which is why easier mechanics make sense to exist.)

[@AbbreviatedReviews]

I was hoping Viewfinder would show up. That game was such a treat for my brain. The gameplay loop is just waves of moments that shatter the understanding I had of the world seconds before. They do a great job taking a straightforward concept and sending it in many different directions.

[@shardtherox]

It did show up at around the 18 minute mark

[@GambitRaps]

This series is one of the highlights of my year, and I am not ashamed of it

[@Taskmaster763]

*we

[@Cool-Vest]

The Climb for VR had a very similar control scheme to Jusant. However, you don't get a rope, and you're in VR. It goes for a much more realistic artstyle and doesn't have as many interesting puzzles, but the stressful climbing mechanics and dense gameplay offer a lot to like.

[@lunarfifthstudios]

I am one or two dev sessions away from finishing my first iteration of my first finished game, a 2.5D endless-runner made with default Unity assets, and even though I know I am just starting out, I would definitely not be this far without the comprehensive videos from GMTK! Thanks for all your hard work!

[@spenceduggs]

I really appreciate you sharing your epiphany regarding a developer's intent. It's always refreshing to see a creator realize they may have approached something from an unideal angle, and choosing to adjust their perspective, rather than fully insist they know what's best.

[@wittyadrian]

Man, what a great video to round off the year! I'm so happy you gave Shadows of Doubt a mention. I've been following its progress since before it was even in closed playtesting and it really deserves the honorable mention. Always happy to see so many devs innovate on their gameplay and I can't wait to see what GMTK is going to bring next year! Keep up the good work!!

[@RealKipper1324]

I actually like how personal you got at the end, mainly because you explained a lesson you learned, which was a lesson I think I needed to hear. Developer's intent is really important to pay attention to whether you're just playing a game, or especially if you're MAKING a game, like me

[@UmbrellaGent]

Now a mostly forgotten Ubisoft game, "I am Alive," addresses your Tomb Raider qualms pretty much to a tee. Much of the game is you climbing on post-apocalyptic ruins of New York and it was some of the most stressful stuff I've ever played (on the hardest difficulty). It was pretty much the Assassin's Creed climbing system but slower, with a stamina bar, and mountain climbing tools. Not an amazing game overall but definitely memorable; I think it really managed to sell the protagonist's desperation. It's a great shame that not only has it been forgotten by players but also by Ubisoft. I think what that game did with its climbing and survival mechanics would be a perfect fit for a Tomb Raider game or something of the sort.

[@l0rdfr3nchy7]

Dude good job i was thinking about that game last week and couldn't remember the name xD I was like "that game where you climb and have to find water"!!! what was it?!"

[@Maurens1]

I remember that game so many times, yet I didn't enjoy it that much. It holds a weird spot in my brain

[@armelior4610]

I vaguely remember this one because of the premise of fog-apocalypse and not zombie-apocalypse which was 99% of the genre at the time. The combat sucked too much so I quit early unfortunately, even if it might have been intended since you're a survivor and not a killing machine. Every part of gameplay was indeed pretty stressful.

[@quinnmarchese6313]

i remember that game lmao, never played but it looked interesting. 2 years after it The Last of Us came out and few have mentioned it since

[@FrancoisLC-s6m]

I remember it too, pretty innovative climbing system, and that's why i didn't find "Jusant" revolutionnary at all! "I am alive" have many other good ideas : for exemple, you have so little bullets in the game that you can bluff the ennemies by pointing the gun at them, and stab them if you get close enough, even if you have not any bullets in your gun! It gets really tense when you are facing multiple ennemies with just one bullet! And you are not always obligated to fight or kill the other people, multiple options. You should try it Mark! ^^

[@dbfr2017]

Surprised you spoke on striking a good balance between climbing mechanics and other gameplay without bringing up Breath of the Wild. I think that game really demonstrated how even little things, like a stamina bar, jumping, and different terrain/weather conditions can do a lot to make climbing feel more engaging, and the world as a whole more fun to explore.

[@quinnmarchese6313]

another big thing BOTW does is quick descents. Assassin's Creed understood that the climbing might be fun, but you needed a quick way down, hence the leap of faith and in later games, the "free run down" button. BOTW took that concept and added Just Cause's glider/parachute foil so you could now also pick you own landing spot--now, not only is climbing an interesting mechanic thanks to stamina and weather, but its also one you are bound to engage with thanks to the fact that jumping off a cliff or tower happens to be one of the quickest ways to travel.

[@SnowPeaGames]

@@quinnmarchese6313 Then the BOTW sequel went even further and gave a situational quick way up, which adds a reward and puzzle solving element for finding a route that enables you to use the ability.

[@Bloodthilth]

I love how Mark's new found Unity knowledge enables him to demonstrate concepts way easier

[@Greywaren24]

I really appreciated that personal note about changing your mind regarding dev intentions! It always struck me as weird that you sometimes framed it as something being "wrong" instead of being intentional and I'm glad you looked back and realized maybe that wasn't right. Great video, as always!

[@sumantgangannavar9680]

There are some youtubers who just create a warmth inside you with their videos.A much needed warmth during this winter. Thanks Mark 😊

[@Luca-ub3tq]

i was scrolling through the comments trying to find something funny, but instead i found the most wholesome thing ive read all day. I hope you have an incredible rest of the year ♥

[@Tjthemedic]

The two big questions in critique are 'what was this attempting to do?' and 'how well did it succeed at that?' -- but, importantly, the third one is 'was what it set out to do worthwhile in the first place?'

[@willlindell8904]

As a former amateur rock climber (arthritis in both my hands makes the grip near impossible anymore) It is so cool to see a puzzle platformer around the hobby. Also, congratulations on making it to 10 years Mark, you've been an entertaining and inspirational channel for me since your Return of the Obra Dinn video, and I look forward to laughing and learning from you even more as the years go on

[@nitvishn]

That reflection in the end about separating your expectations from developer intent -- it made me leave you a like and subscribe to your channel. It was honest. It was real. I resonated with it. This is what builds a real KZbin community, not a redundant "hey guys, please like and subscribe!!!" thrown into the intro and outro of every video. I look forward to your other videos!

[@Kithara1117]

It's a late release, but this month's A Highland Song by Inkle was one of the most interesting experiences I had. It's got the time-sensitive "get from A to Z using any number of dozens of viable paths" that you might recognize from 80 Days, but instead of being a text-based adventure, plays out as a 2D exploration game; you have to climb to the top of a mountain and look around for promising POIs and consult fragmentary maps to find a passage into a deeper plane. The beautiful parallax background is in fact every playable plane stacked on top of each other, and so as you play you descend deeper and deeper into the background, and further backgrounds reveal themselves every time you pass over a mountain that used to block the way. All the while, you're managing your stamina, which semi-permanently depletes very quickly in poor weather conditions, making climbing up sheer cliffs nigh impossible. You might want to wait out a storm, but the amount of time it takes to replenish your max stamina depends on how good your shelter is... so maybe you want to press on a bit further to find a cave or shack to hole up in. There is, after all, a deadline--- one which you probably won't make the first attempt. So you can try again with your newfound knowledge of shortcuts, or try a new path entirely, which might be faster, more direct, or have its own interesting characters and environments to interact with. Inkle is always pushing the envelope, in my opinion, of what constitutes a "narrative game" and A Highland Song gracefully blends a lot of familiar systems from disparate genres (including, I've neglected to mention, rhythm-based traversal sections) into a truly unique 2D storytelling experience.

[@manasnain6695]

I feel like pocket mountain: climber is also a really good climbing game, it uses a simpler mechanism, but with the concept of getting tired as you climb, and also implimenting the fact that grabbing a hold from it's corners tires you out more is awesome. It's really rewarding when you summit, because you really do have to put in time. (mobile game, check it out)

[@CandyManSC]

I’d like to give an honorable mention to Astro’s Playroom, the climbing in that game did an excellent job evoking the feel of an actual climbing gym.

[@camdyman11]

Yeah I was thinking that the system in Astros is pretty much a simplified version of this

[@CheesecakeMilitia]

Bennett Foddy's GIRP and Ubisoft's Grow Home also come to mind.

[@ethranton]

Agree. Came to add a similar comment 😀

[@cflann2011]

@@CheesecakeMilitia GIRP and Astro's were exactly what I thought of when I saw this game.

[@IFinishedAVideoGame]

That final sequence of the script is so poignant I almost wish it was it's own essay. It's so easy as a critic or "analyst" to get wrapped up in what you think a game should be rather than trying to understand what the developer intended. Not everything needs to be clever or engaging - sometimes simple ideas help with pacing in a way you can only see when you step back (which is likely how the developers view the game rather than our hyper focused online perspective!) Thanks for a great video!

[@menhirmike]

3:33 That almost has QWOP vibes. I'm glad that they tried it because it's easier to go too far and then dial it back a bit, rather than prematurely staying too simple. And the end result is so much better because of it. (Ha, and then you mention QWOP later on)

[@niraqw5908]

There’s actually a sequel to QWOP about climbing called GIRP that looks fairly similar.

[@fritzvontrapp8269]

Great video as always! Your discussion on developer intentions reminded me of what CS Lewis says in his Experiment in Criticism when he talks about approaching art to receive an external experience prepared for us instead of taking only the things that satisfy your personal desires. It lets the artist communicate something new to you instead of just showing you what you know to be hungry for. I am still struggling to adopt this mindset, but it's already helping me appreciate pieces I wouldn't have otherwise!

[@honest_psycho7237]

Talking about kineasthetic design reminded me of ICO on the PS2 (from the devs would make Shadow of the Colossus later). There you hold a shoulder button to let the player hold hand with the girl you are escorting throughout the game. Added a lot to the atmosphere and feel of the game.

[@sass2836]

I'm playing Jusant at the moment, and have been really impressed. Fantastic to see you highlight the game + mechanics, Mark, and looking forward to watching the video properly when I'm done.

[@ggali09]

“Donkey Kong: King of Swing” had a similar climbing mechanic back in 2005. Definitely should have mentioned.

[@pennyfarting]

It's interesting how that game started from such a similar idea but ended up as something completely different in execution. It ends up being a much arcadier, more kinetic experience than the meditative and emotionally affecting Jusant, just by orienting its climbing system around constant motion and timed inputs rather than conscious, methodical decision-making. That might be why he didn't think of it, because that core decision to just make DK always swing around the handholds _by himself_ takes the game completely out of the realm of "quasi-realistic climbing sim" and into the territory of "silly arcade physics hijinks."

[@gamedevreasearch]

15:00 ....Thank you. This really means a lot to all game devs.

[@StinkyBuster]

I think this really works when climbing 'is' the game. But I think I'd be tired of it by the 10th time I just wanted to get Aloy up a quick cliff

[@Pichii21]

yeah im with the same boat as you. Im abit misled by the video comparing it to tr, horizon etc when in reality jusant is literally a climbing game.

[@AaryanKainth]

Yea this climbing system is in deliver us Mars (also from this year), and it was just annoying

[@Arakus99]

@@Pichii21 I mean tbf the original Tomb Raider games were much more focused on platforming, exploring, and puzzles. Taking inspiration from Jusant for movement and exploration mechanics would make sense for a tomb raider re-reboot that tries more to feel like a modern version of the original games instead of kinda just being Uncharted with TR aesthetics

[@Meoin]

It came out after this video, but a good honorary mention at this point is that "A Difficult Game About Climbing" game. Some people might consider it "streamer bait" for being a Foddian game, but it really does do a great job of making an entire game of just climbing engaging and challenging. It's par for the course with Foddian type games to be heavily punishing, but it solves that "no danger" issue that you mention with other games climbing mechanics. That game makes messing up feel genuinely terrifying if you've made good progress since the last checkpoint. If Jusant is aiming to be a relaxing, unpunishing climbing game, then A Difficult Game About Climbing is aiming to be the opposite. Like you mentioned, what you felt to be a flaw actually presented as an opportunity for a new developer to pursue. A good contrast to show that different approaches can both be good for people seeking different things from games.

[@vladimirgoryachev4570]

I feel that another good contender for the honorable mentions list would be "Book of Hours", a recent game about managing a lonely occult library. It has a very innovative magical system, which leads to emergent ways to practice magic. Like playing a flute while sitting at a telescope to invoke celestial harmonies and call upon a helpful wind. Or like seeping a cracked log washed ashore by the sea in the water from the depths of the library well, and bringing it deep into a creepy underground laboratory to make it bear strange bronze-tinged fruit. Or like using those fruit in a hot and blazing forge to extract from them a potent alchemical fuel... And all those things are not scripted nor set in stone, but emerge as a result of a clever system of mystical aspects, or principles, each with its own theme and vibe, which are present in everything in the game, and need to be combined to do produce the magical effects.

[@jackmcawesome7087]

Book of hours is a very good game- I absolutely love it- but I wouldn't really call it innovative. It's a sequel(ish) to Cultist Simulator, and BoH has a nearly identical magic system to CS, just with workstations instead of rituals. It's evocative, sure, when describing what you're doing thematically, but mechanically it's still just collecting the right amount of each aspect and sticking them together, no more complicated than "Get 10 wood and 5 string to make a bow". The only fun part is experimenting to figure out what the recipes actually are to start with, which CS also does.

[@gwen9939]

@@jackmcawesome7087 I had more fun figuring out Cultist Simulator than BoH probably, maybe because by BoH I'd already play CS so I knew the jist of it. Cultist Simulator remains this kind of "masterclass in abstraction" to me in the way it was fully a virtual table-top card game except it had a bunch of things happening behind the scene that you'd only learn about when it became relevant to you. It felt way more mysterious and way more like you were actually in the role of an eldritch investigator trying to unravel reality with how nonsensical the items you got was, and how trial and error was the only way to truly figure out what you were supposed to be doing.

[@Hafgandil]

Mark, you are such an emphatic person, I love this side of yours. It always half the enjoyment when watching your videos. Thank you for being an awesome and inspiring human being.

[@Leron...]

Yo! This is just like Bennet Foddy's browser game "GIRP" but turned into a full beautiful adventure instead of just a simple gimmick with an asshole bird.

[@LazyLeftyLP]

Exactly what I was thinking!

[@synmad3638]

Yes, it's so refreshing to see this sort of mechanic taken seriously

[@Kithara1117]

I thought of GIRP so many times while watching this game and was surprised to see QWOP mentioned and not GIRP or Getting Over It. This game owes a lot to Bennett Foddy, I would guess.

[@Chibs]

@@Kithara1117 Tbh I can see someone makinkg Jusant without ever having even heard of GIRP, it's not like translating real life actions to player input is wholly unique, while holding on and planning where to go is simply the essence of climbing.

[@ThunderBurgers]

@@Chibs I get where you're coming from, but Mark made an entire video about games like Grow Home where climbing is the main mechanic. In fact, he not only showed footage of GIRP, but he even talked about it and discussed some perspectives from Bennett. If you look in the channel you can find it, and it's actually the same video he referred to at the beginning of this video. Maybe he didn't mention it because he figured that most viewers have seen it or will check it out on their own; he did link it in the I-card, after all.

[@krovek]

As a long time rock climber and mountaineer, I'm so glad to see someone take an in-depth look at climbing mechanics in a game. I picked up Snake Pass after seeing your video on it, and noticed immediately how it tickled the same problem solving parts of my brain that rock climbing does. For a start, the game having no designated "handholds" ( I know its a snake, go with it) or game objects that you click to latch onto makes a big difference. Instead you have to consider how your entire snake body will interact with the game world. The thing that Snake Pass really nailed for me was the sensation that your body is both your most valuable tool and your biggest weakness. In both Snake Pass and real rock climbing, miss-reading a problem can get you into a situation where it's taking all your effort just to hang on, and you cannot find the way to shift your positioning to free up part of your body to make forward progress. I'll be really interested to try Jusant. In my limited experience with other video game climbing, I think most focus too much on just where the hands and feet are going. While this is a very obvious part of solving a climbing problem to a laymen, the more critical part of a climber's movement comes from how they shift and control their center of mass. Pro climbing have incredibly strong grip strength to hang onto tiny handholds, but their ability to control their balance and their immense core strength is what allows them to stay put on such tiny holds.

[@MD-mk3lh]

When it comes to immersive or interesting climbing, holding down the trigger to make the character hold onto a grip, my mind immediately went to the climbing section of Astro's Playroom. It has triggers mapped to gripping actions of the left and right hand, tilting the controller as a means of tilting the robots body and reach up with your left or right arm, jumping is replaced by swinging on a bar, where you again have to do precisely the same motion your character does on screen with your own controller. And in addition to that there is certain sections where it matters how hard you grip onto a hold, meaning how hard you squeeze your trigger.

[@artbyaline]

Your dev intention insight was refreshing. As a dev I can absolutely tell you it is the most difficult thing to carry accross fields of work on a project (and beyond). It is mistunderstood and overlooked 99% of the time. What a player or a reviewer wishes a game would be/do is usually what comes out in a vociferous way. In any case, great piece; I'll keep some of these points in mind.

[@fakjbf3129]

5:58 This was actually something I liked about the early Assassin’s Creed games. You had to find the route to get to the stop, and while sometimes it was straight forwards other times there would be dead ends causing you to backtrack and go up a different way until you found the right one. The climbing itself was still very simple but it was way more engaging than in recent titles where you can pretty much always just go up with very little need to be think about your character’s movement.

[@TheCrawl]

I appreciate the personal note at the end re: developer intent. I think it’s a nuanced and welcome moment of introspection more people could think on as well-but don’t overcorrect! “Developer intent” is important to keep in mind, but it isn’t fool-proof. It’s okay to point out where personal preference clashes with developer intent. Not only is that the core of artistic criticism in general, such feedback is also helpful for developers, since they can see who liked their games and why/why not, and use that to gauge if their intended experience worked (or if it was even on the mark in the first place). Otherwise, if “developer intent” trumped and stifled all feedback, art would remain stagnant. As long as a critique offered respectfully, in good faith, and with the proper context (i.e. “I would like this better/feel it would be more successful if___” instead of “this is objectively bad/incorrect”), then you’re doing it right. And if there’s one thing I would say about your channel and your work, it’s that you offer feedback and suggestions in an honest and respectful way :) so don’t feel too bad about those past videos!

[@nothingisawesome]

Deliver Us Mars had interesting climbing as well. its not the whole game like Jusant but its definitely a big aspect of it

[@lukejonesme]

I like your switch in mindset towards taking a game on its merits. The best reviewers of any type of media are those that take the source on its merit, and then review the game - for example - on whether those merits achieve what they're trying to do. Trying to imbibe your own desires and wishes on something you have no control over (a game that's already been released) is a fruitless exercise.

[@oprelwork]

I've been working on a climbing game that is set to come out soon (Surmount) and it's been really interesting to see how Jusant took similar inspirations in a completely different way. I was a tiny bit disappointed with how linear their approach ended up being, but it would for sure make a good fit for AAA games! But I do hope that exploration and expression through movement keep being at the core of games solely focused on climbing.

[@TBH_Inc]

Idk how much I would enjoy an entire game of this (I’d have to play the game to see), but this definitely sounds like a really cool mechanism to add to brief climbs in other games.

[@deadfr0g]

5:53 Nooo!! I can’t believe that QWOP of all things got a shoutout, but he forgot to mention GIRP! 🤣 Hahah. Fantastic video as always!!!

[@The8BitPianist]

Stray Gods would have deserved a mention at least. It's an incredibly responsive role playing musical. It's so unique in that I find it difficult to compare it to anything. I mean, just the way the songs change based on your choices is unbelievable

[@Telekrus]

One game that deserved to be mentioned here is the VR game "The Climb". It basically does the exact combination of stamina / gripping mechanics as Jusant, just in VR. It's been around for a while now, but it's so similar to Jusant in terms of core mechanics I think it deserves a shoutout.

[@StephenYuan]

I loved Jusant. Played it like 6 hours. I hope it influences how other developers treat climbing

[@wiremesh2]

It's funny you mention QWOP, because when I saw this I immediately thought of one of Bennett Foddy's other exercises in frustration: "GIRP," which is a climbing game.

[@LeeMajorz]

Mark, and anyone else wanting even more challenging/complex climbing games, check out New Heights and Peaks of Yore, which both came out this year.

[@ElieHaykal]

Thanks for mentioning

[@Road_to_Dawn]

This reminds me of how when I was a little kid and 3D games were new (I’m old), I imagined we’d have to make our characters walk by operating each leg independently, and it just sounded like a huge pain. Jusant seems like a Death Stranding version of rock climbing, and I’m sold. This looks amazing.

[@amaryllis0]

It's just a shame they couldn't have implemented those different stamina, checkpoint etc. options as difficulty options. "Games shouldn't revolve around me" doesn't mean "games should revolve around someone else" - it's okay to wish a game could also cater to you when it doesn't! The way you feel about this reminds me of how I felt about Heaven's Vault, with really really enjoying the concept but feeling like they ruined it slightly by being too handholdy. And it's frustrating because you know they could have easily fixed it, just added one option that could have made it perfect for you.

[@Divide-Films]

It's funny, I can totally see Mark's development with the channel here. It feels like ever since he's started his 'developing' series we've gotten to know him a lot better as a person, and now that personal side is bleeding into his analysis videos. And I'm all for it! Hope to see a lot more of you next year Mark. Merry christmas

[@aidanmurray8283]

Great video! I add the most games to my steam wishlist from this channel ;). Haven’t played either, but Viewfinder seems like it has elements like Superliminal. Very exited to look more into the games you showed off here. I also appreciate the attitude you brought to the elements that you wish were different in games with the question, “what were the developers intentions?”

[@PivotThom]

Love how you incorporated real life climbing into the video Mark! I wonder if there are other art forms you could mix into your content every so often.

[@GunnGuardian]

As cool as this game is and it's unique control scheme. I couldn't help but think in the back of my head "But you could also just climb in VR and do this even better" which kind of makes me want to give "the climb" a try.

[@iamrandom44]

It's crazy how this video is actually about Mount Your Friends (and the sequel in 3D) without ever mentioning that game! Incredible work! (But really, incredible video and now I have to check out Jusant)

[@fatyoshi696]

i would've loved if yomi hustle got a mention, it's a pvp anime fight scene choreographer where you choose your actions frame by frame in a turn-based format, and at the end of the fight you get to see the whole thing played back in real time which is incredible every single time. It's completely unlike anything i've ever played and my favorite game of 2023

[@suchandanadattagupta8923]

Toribash did this back in 2006

[@fatyoshi696]

@@suchandanadattagupta8923 i know it did i've played toribash too, yomi is 100% inspired by toribash but they play completely differently, what yomi does is grab the traditional fighter formula and make it turn based, it's got all that fighting game juice like foosties, blockstrings and frame data, but everyone has perfect reaction time and execution. I guess it would be better to describe it as a TAS fighting game, that gives you perfect control over your character so you can focus on the 5d chess prediction game that makes fighting games so fun while also being incredibly stylish, unlike toribash that focuses on the cinematic aspect of being able to control all of your character's limbs individually at the cost of being kind of a mess gameplay-wise

[@sageD590]

Brilliant perspective at the end there. I've long since thought that you didn't consider the developers intent. Super glad that your own development has brought this aspect of design into view. Super cool!

[@boateye]

Oh wow, i havent heard of Jusant before but it seems like a spiritual successor to thr Grow Home Na d Grow Up games which i ADORED! Edit: obviously i wrote the above before you mentioned Grow Home. Im not surprised that you saw the connection too

[@gallonofcats1097]

One very innovative game not mentioned is Your Only Move is Hustle (YOMI Hustle for short). It is a turn based fighting game. It basically an answer to question "what if we removed all time pressure and execution barriers from fighting games, and then cranked power of characters all the way up?" The ability to control charactes basically frame by frame creates intense fight sequences, that are played out at full speed at the end of the match. It is amazing!

[@LeoStaley]

Looks like "A Difficult Game About Climbing" decided to smush this game together with "Getting Over It with Bennet Foddy"

[@senaustun4380]

ı do love how both you and the channel matures with time. When you share ur real thoughts and change of minds I feel more like as if Im actually listening to a real person instead of a video and it helps me engage more. Keep it going man, cant wait for ur game to be out btw :)

[@RainbowMan9407]

The climbing in this game reminds me of Astro's Playroom. In the gimmick section of the jungle, you take control of a monkey that has almost exactly the same controls as this game (you just use motion controls to move your hands instead of the left stick because, tech showcase. In addition, jumping is motion controlled, there's no stamina, and there's nothing like the pitons or rope). This is absolutely a game that I'm curious about.

[@willieko]

Got to try this. Oddly, what really stood out from your video is the gorgeous and unique visual design. The alien foliage, the messy layers of climbing equipment, the bright rope colours contrasting the earth tone of the rock face, the rickety wooden platforms...everything looks so beautifully crafted!

[@tHaH4x0r]

A similar climbing game that came out just slightly before dusont, but from a first person perspective, is 'peaks of yore'. Perhaps worth a look as well. It even contains a similar 'quick save' and 'swing' mechanic with a rope. In that game you can 'die', which will just reset you all the way to the beginning. For me personally shadows of doubt gets the most innovative game. Its the first game where you can feel truly like a detective. Having a very open world and way of solving things, instead of a carefully crafted, essentially linear, experience as pretty much all other detective games do.

[@a_b897]

The bit about intention towards the end was fantastic, it’s really something that anyone who makes or critiques art (or anything, really) should think about and it was great to hear you honestly grapple with the complexity of the topic! I think it would be excellent if you did a full video about it sometime, maybe picking several game//mechanics you previously criticised (or praised) and talk about how your view of them compares and contrasts with what the intention was or might have been.

[@PresidentNelson]

The way Fashion people made fun of Bjork's Swan Dress taught me the lesson you can't judge art on what You want but on what They intend. Good art means you hit Your bullseye regardless on where others are aiming. Great videos this year looking forward to more.

[@BadGOneX]

Nice introspection for a "end of the year" kind-of video Thanks for everything you do !

[@GameDevInAVan]

I’d love to know if the icon to the left of the character is a homage to the mobile climbing game Crux. Really quite uncanny ;)

[@6Pope9]

Bro I loved like you reflected on your own experiences and was humble about it. Developers intentions are pretty important.

[@Suzakuux]

While not it's primary focus, Deliver Us Mars has a similar climbing mechanic of controlling each arm and both triggers for each climbing hook. It was one of the things I enjoyed about that game.

[@DanielG-e8t]

Void stranger was easily one of the most innovative games I've ever played, it's a genre fusion of a puzzle game and another genre which I've never seen done before and I don't want to spoil. Highly recommend, I've seen no one talk about it and it's my game of the year

[@Seedy_Sea]

This was going to be my response as well. It's amazing the constant sense of discovery the developer managed to get out of a relatively simple puzzle mechanic.

[@DanielG-e8t]

@GodComplex13 it's really incredible, if you haven't played baba is you I really recommend it, it's similar (you probably have tho cause that game is 10x more known and won most innovative here lol)

[@Table53]

Great choice! It really is an excellent game, I had such a good time with it!

[@CaptBighead]

I've been a huge fan and followed this channel for years now, and I've found a lot of great recommendations and insights from your video essays :) I've usually chafed a bit when hearing your criticisms of things like Spider-Man's web swinging and other games' difficulties; nothing serious or anything, just a difference in taste. The way you've addressed those thoughts here is very cool and shows a lot of maturity and thoughtfulness! Not sure if you'll even read this, but wanted to toss out that as a random internet stranger I found that pretty admirable :)

[@matthauke]

Amazing how they basically remade QWOP's sequal GIRP before opting for something simpler

[@real_szop4692]

I think Your only move is hustle is a great fighting game that doesn't require you to do very hard combos in half a second. I really love it!!! Theank you for this great year of GMTK!

[@Pabs1234]

My most inovative game was YOMI hustle Yo

[@rkko_]

damn this video is great, the way it was executed, the professionalism, and interesting games to explore. I'm definitely subscribing

[@The_NJG]

I do miss good climbing mechanics and attempts at platforming in games.

[@Rolostunning]

I haven't seen anyone mention Void Stranger yet, and I feel like especially with the comments on difficulty and Developer intentions, it's such a perfect recommendation! It is made by System Erasure, who also made the excellent shmup/bullet hell Zero Ranger. Honestly could be said Void Stranger has a lot in common with Tunic: both are Zelda inspired but go in different directions (action vs puzzle focus), both have a lot of hidden mechanics and depths you get to discover on your own, and both heartily encourage writing down your own notes and observations about the world. Love your videos as always!! thanks for highlighting Jusant, it looks like everything I have also wanted out of climbing mechanics in videogames. I do agree that it would be harder to maintain the intended cinematic action flow in games like Uncharted and Tomb Raider, but I think there's still some room to play in the space between? I hope more devs try for it and don't take tooo much feedback. Jumping back to Void Stranger, there is a lot you can do with a game that (on the surface) is not meant to be a game for everyone, but has a lot of systems in place to discover that DO help anyone be able to engage with it if they choose to pursue a seemingly daunting task

[@joshdtj]

It's wild to me that Uncharted 4 wasn't mentioned... I felt that they really improved their climbing system in that one with directly controlling Nathan's arm position and the pick that you have to stab in the wall. Sure you didn't have to hold a button to hold a climbhold but I can still see some of that DNA here in Jusant

[@FilipeLeviSilva]

Ah! I was thinking just the same. Uncharted has engaging climbing and traversal. Though it is not as deep.