How Konami Failed Yu-Gi-Oh!'s Card Design with

[@crusaderpenguin5326]

The problem isn't the semantics of whether a certain new card is busted or not, the problem is where I can possibly PLAY the sub-optimal (see: non-meta) deck and not get stomped. I understand that it would be hard to adjust decks in the same way as Pokemon, but I honestly think it's necessary, because where else am I going to get to play my non-meta decks? It's not even a case of decks that haven't had support in 10 years being outclassed, it's that cards are being released NOW and are never getting a chance to do the cool things they're designed to do. Now it's either "meta" or "unplayable", which is a disservice to both the players AND the designers who put so much effort into designing these cards. Because we can't exclusively go off release year, a ranking system that divides cards and decks into different formats seems to be the only way to save it.

[@yodxxx1]

There is a reason for this problem There is currently an arms race going on between combo decks and handtraps, where each has to quickly gets stronger, or else the other gets to strong The reason for this is that so many good generically accessible bosses exist which just shut the opponent down If there were no handtraps, or those disruptive generic bosses, then every deck no matter how good would end with the same things: a board with a lot of monsters which wont interupt the opponent, but can still be sponges for attacks That would balance the scale a bit, because there isnt as much of a difference anymore between a deck that can special summon 20 times in a turn, to one that can do it 40 times In other words, konami need to do a bold move and ban a ton of very expensive cards which will piss of all players which bought all those staples Tldr Handtraps and generic disruptive bosses are the problem in yugioh, and cause the over the to design weve been sseing recently

[@Steamedhams578]

Almost all other games seem to solve this problem with either - A: Having draft or sealed formats supported. B: Having a low rarity format. Where cards need to be have a minium rarity printing. C: Having a fun format that is more self balancing like Commander in mtg. Im not sure any of these 3 options are viable currently for yugioh simply due to the design. Domain format has alot of obtuse restrictions built into it to make it work and Konami simply wont do the draft option as they're afraid of messing up their product model. The low rarity format might actually be the most viable but Im not too sure it actually levels the playing field for all these mid archetypes.

[@waiyon1951]

@@Steamedhams578i think it is possible just konami could not give a rat’s backside in putting the effort in despite everything else. I know its not the easiest thing to do but something needs to change.

[@Earthbound524]

The only format that is gaining some little traction that the community made that could realistically support these cards in a healthy environment is Domain. It's basically MTGs commander for Yugioh because if people want to do the think, they have two other opponents to worry about which can offset the power of these cards

[@Steamedhams578]

@@waiyon1951I think it has to come from the players pushing for the changes first like Commander was originally, but obviously there isn't even a well established fan format rn which solves these problems apart from Domain which doesnt have huge interest.

[@GamerNym]

The problem with the "just go to locals :)" response is that for a lot of people, and I'd say that number is only growing over time, locals are just as sweaty as a YCS. Casual play is being stifled out of the game, if it ever really existed in the first place.

[@sallas09]

This is my problem. I’d love to take my lower-powered, just-got-support pet deck (Lightsworn) to my locals, but almost everyone there not only plays meta, but has also topped/won multiple regionals and higher events. Two of the players who regularly attend topped Nationals last year. It’s just not a hospitable place for fun, off-meta picks.

[@darkwolf9637]

Locals naturally attracts the more dedicated probably competitive players because if you're not super dedicated or competitive, why would you spend money on physical cards and spend gas money on driving to locals when you could just hop on master duel for free and get roughly the same experience.

[@damianrogowski5519]

master duel is not made for tcg players , timewaste

[@Shrimp4Gura]

Took Madolche to my local shop to play for fun, first guy i played, i normal summoned Megilene, he double Charmied me (Fuwalos and Purulia), then Drolled when i added. Like bro, I'm not here for the YCS experience, I'm here to have fun.

[@AlphaSquadZero]

@@Shrimp4Gura At least you were free of any further charmie draws. (I know this is not consoling)

[@benbogosh4057]

I hear you Stevie but I think Paul was acknowledging that these decks arent meta but was asking what can be done to make a space where theyre playable as is

[@CyrusIsnt]

"I Think" Bro you are 100% correct paul said exactly that 🤣

[@spiderfred1]

"Just go to locals" is such a bullshit nothingbuger. My locals has a yubel player, fiendsmith Kashtira, Ryzeal, Maliss, and 2 Labyrinth players. The next closest locals is 2 and a half hours away and is just as sweaty

[@DualSwordBesken]

The "these are just for the locals" argument is basically just an excuse to not actually engage with the real issue. "Play these in locals" ignores that locals very easily just ends up looking like a break down of a YCS after like round 2 when all the 0-2 players on these "shitty" decks in question have dropped, and after a few weeks of going 0-X, players just decide to give up bothering with even locals. Ultimately this all comes down to Konami needing to support alternative modern formats. Supporting Goat, Edison, Toss, etc is cool and all but does nothing for these newer or newly supported decks that can't compete even at a locals level. Edit: 17:40 This is a lie that was being pushed so hard about a year ago and doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Wide formats with lots of viable decks makes it frustrating for pro player because as we saw from all the complaints, they can no longer prepare for everything. I still remember quite well Pak getting super pissy in a video because he lost to Dragon Link that ran a Herald of the Abyss and he couldn't prepare for that. It is far more welcoming for new players (that have any interest in the competitive scene because otherwise this is irrelevant to them) that ask "what is viable?" that you can go "take your pick, if you focus on learning your deck mostly, you'll be at least okay learning other stuff on the fly" vs going "you have to play one of these 3 or so expensive top options or else you will usually get shat on and can't really deviate from their play style", that latter response will usually do more to push away a new player that doesn't like the style promoted by those few viable decks. The main argument for new players and wide formats is "it's harder for them to learn the matchups" and that ignores that that isn't what they should be learning starting off to begin with, they need to learn their own deck first before learning how to navigate matchups.

[@KigerrTLON]

Kind of killing your own point. If the 0-2 players drop when they are actually matched against people with the same tier of deck, did they really come to have fun or want to blow people out with a low tier deck? 😅 I'm luckily in a good area that has 6 different card shops and all of them try different formats like time wizard etc which ends up being what you are looking for a couple weeks, but then people work shop it and find the 2-3 "busted" decks for the limitations of the format then people stop showing up

[@jtm94]

I do agree the talk of dropping when 0-2 at locals is some weak spined behavior. I will never drop for anyone because I want to play the game, and playing the game is the reason I go to locals, not to win.

[@DualSwordBesken]

@@KigerrTLON That assumes that there are enough other people at the locals that have the same tier deck that you could reliably get paired with them. If you don't and just end up against the Ryzeal or Malice player that had brick hands all day or the Lab player that kept losing the die roll rounds 1 and 2, its just kinda more of the same. I know my locals tends to leave fairly competitive and seeing tier 2 decks in the 0-X bracket isn't exactly rare, and the rogue and below decks are the few and far between.

[@DualSwordBesken]

@@jtm94 And Yu-Gi-Oh has a bit of a bad habit of not letting you play the game, at least more than other cards games like Magic, where when the matchup is lopsided enough, the lower power decks just doesn't play. And that is where additional supported formats gets to be a thing. You get to join a game where you have a higher likelihood of actually playing. This is why I would like to see Domain become more of a thing, it's more encouraging of people actually getting to play the game.

[@KigerrTLON]

​@@DualSwordBeskenso we assume the worst in every situation to fit the narrative, but other side of the conversation cant assume the best? No matter what the format is, people will workshop it till it has a clear best 2-3 decks then we are back to square one asking for the 46th new format

[@raulruiz891]

No meta deck should be played at locals. If it topped a YCS in the past few months, it should not play at locals. The problem isn't about the decks perse, it's that there's nowhere to play them cuz as soon as 1 person plays meta in locals, everyone is made hostage to play at a YCS level cuz that one deck becomes the deck to beat, and most likely, no one will. So, the same way you wouldn't play Six Sam in a YCS, then the opposite should be true, no meta at locals period. Taht way everyone is happy

[@renaldyhaen]

No, Yu-Gi-Oh! doesn’t have an alternative format, even though Konami intentionally creates "weak decks." This is because the game is inherently Pay-to-Win, and Konami relies on this model to sell their products. These weaker decks exist to emphasize the value of stronger cards, giving players-especially less skilled ones-more motivation to buy the latest products, as they often provide an "easier" path to winning. To ensure that META players can dominate, Konami ensures that some players continue to use "bad decks," whether due to budget constraints or other reasons. If Konami truly created these "weak cards" for meme deck builders, they should absolutely introduce an alternative format. Why? Because a lower-power format, where more cards are viable, would encourage more players to build meme decks. More players joining means more consumers buying products. However, the fact that Konami hasn’t done this suggests they’re sticking to the strategy I mentioned earlier. As for win rates and popularity, we have Master Duel, which tracks these metrics. Occasionally, Master Duel hosts lower-power events like Theme Chronicles. Why do you think they can create a special banlist so quickly? It’s because they already have data on card win rates and popularity from ranked play, which they use to craft banlists for these short-term events. The reason Konami needs this "unbalanced format" to sell products is that they’ve relied on this strategy for too long. As a result, the players who remain in the game are mostly those who care only about winning and are willing to buy products that help them do so. If Konami used their creativity, they could market the game in other ways, such as emphasizing gameplay uniqueness, card art, anime tie-ins, and more. Having 15 competitive decks in modern Yu-Gi-Oh! is a nightmare because it requires specific "silver bullet" cards to counter the top-tier decks. However, this wouldn’t be an issue in a mid- or lower-power format where 15 or more decks could be viable. Alternatively, the game could experiment with new systems for competition. Currently, Yu-Gi-Oh! uses a system where each player uses one deck with a side deck. In this system, matches often come down to whether or not you draw your "silver bullet" card. Why not try something new, like combining the Conquest Format with shared cards, where players use three different decks in a duel? Please be creative a little. Somehow, both the game and its community seem tired and resigned to the state of the game, even though they’ve never truly tried to make meaningful changes.

[@lonelyfire27]

That's the core issue. It's a pay-to-win business model, a double-edge sword design. All of this is on Konami's decision to not drive away from it years ago but rather ingrain themselves on it and continuing to somehow not expect the problems of double-edge sword design to not catch up. The longevity and survivability of yugioh really all depends on whether or not Konami bites the bullet on their current business model and turn to the changes players want in which 10-15 decks can be competitive/meta, in which decks are not created to be memes, and in which decks are not negation and restriction fest everywhere. If a deck does fall out of a meta, Konami would support it with 1 or 2 more cards to possibly bring them back the competitive/meta level, and this would solve a lot of the problems we're all talking about.

[@renaldyhaen]

@@lonelyfire27 Because Konami has relied on this Pay-to-Win strategy for so long, players who cared about fun gameplay or balance have already quit. The players who remain are mostly those who only care about winning. As a result, Konami now needs to rely on extreme powercreep to sell their products. In the past, Konami’s card game could depend on the anime to boost its popularity. However, due to a lack of creativity and the absence of an anime tie-in, the easiest and laziest way to sell products now is by "forcing" players to buy new cards through relentless powercreep

[@JadeHex]

95% of each set is built for shitty meme deckbuilders (that don't exist really I would imagine most locals players are playing to win) you might as well print them into the garbage. The hometown heroes want to play their pet deck in their locals and not go 0-2 drop every week idk.

[@plantseason290]

You sound like a meta slave. You realize even non meta decks can boost a casual players results when they're playing with their friends.

[@Gravekeeper5890]

Correct.

[@magicianofd8434]

You can say that these cards are for locals play, but unfortunately, I think that will heavily depend on the people at your locals. If there's a good number of people actually playing competitively viable decks, you're not going to have much opportunity for fun because you're going spend a lot of time getting beat down into the ground with no real recourse. And I understand that some people don't mind that, but most of us aren't built like that and would still like to play less powerful decks without getting curb stomped. Also, this isn't just an old deck issue, archetypes like Witchcrafters aren't old by any means and they still don't stand a chance against the big meta decks. These decks do function well and are fun to play and sucks that they've never existed in a period when they don't get absolutely stomped by something.

[@asafpm8196]

nah but why would I take my tier 6 to locals when half the players are on ryzeal and maliss

[@Shrimp4Gura]

The problem is a vast majority of the playerbase isnt playing for fun anymore, they're playing to win. Nobody builds fun decks anymore, nobody sits down and plays for fun, its all regional/ycs/wcq prep.

[@daltronius]

@@Shrimp4Gura yea, now that people have money on the mind and ery good card is 80+ dollars, people play to win so they have a higher chance of making money, nobody wants to play jank bc jank cant win. I wish my locals went back to casual paradise it used to be, we had people playing cardian level eater, and aqua actress. Now its just 12 fiend ryzeal players hoping to be the chosen player that local

[@Earthbound524]

As much as people think that a Smogon for Yugioh would work, it unfortunately won't. The issue that no one ever talks about is the longevity of the format of a game. Pokemon games have a large playerbase that can last maybe a good 4 years before a new game comes out which means the smogon tiers change ever so slowly to make a pokemon bump up or down a tier or two. Yugioh, the format changes whenever anything new comes out, and there isn't an extraordinarily large community willing to test everything whenever something new comes out to offset that the format might last every 1-3 months.

[@methmeth]

Smogon literally updates every 3 months, and honestly could update even faster, they just don't need to for reasons you mentioned. There is nothing stopping them from updating it faster. You could argue this would make the Tiers less reliable, but as Metas form around power cards and deck the data becomes more and more clear.

[@tehy123]

The thing is, every few months you would see meta shifts with new cards introduced, not to mention you would need good enough meta understanding for banlists and so on. I don't think it's impossible and it would likely benefit the game but I totally get why it's not going to happen

[@BlaximilianD00d]

I haven't felt the desire to mentally check out in Pokémon battles the way I do in Master Duel. These two games are not comparable.

[@AlphaSquadZero]

@@methmeth it doesn't take long for yugioh players to sniff out problematic cards most of the time. From there, just card usage rate from a large enough player base should keep decks in a tier not much higher up than where they are supposed to be.

[@absoul112]

you say the cards are meant for casual play, but I have to ask "Where?" People describe what their locals is like, and it ranges from half pet deckers and half competitive players to everyone there is practicing for the next major tournament. I don't understand people trying to argue in favor of a Smogon tiering system in so many things outside of Pokemon.

[@u.a.perfectace7786]

Oh yeah I felt that. My small locals Arcane Labs is basically a mini YCS. I call it the unofficial YCS Merced because that place has no room non meta. Doesn't help the judge they have is a complete ass either (I really hope he doesn't represent Sky Striker players because he gives you guys bad name with his shit attitude). Wish Yugioh players realized they can put the same energy moaning about thr current game play design behind Yugioh and yet are too scared and conservative to explore alternative formats or start grassroots movement across movement that spans across multiple locals. I don't think a 1:1 copy of Smogon's tier system would work. Maybe if it was adjusted for a card game in some other way. Maybe implement a custom ban list foe decks that are power crept and not include new decks like Ryzeal or Maliss.

[@daltronius]

I really wish as a casual i can get excited for legacy support, but theres nowhere irl to play them, locals have very quickly became "regional practice area" and people play mostly meta, maybe cheaper versions but meta nonetheless. So i have nowhere to play these cool pieces, except online, which at that point theres no reason to own the cards anymore.

[@damianrogowski5519]

100%

[@D4PPZ456]

You should join the growing number of people who have abandoned paper. It's clear that it's intended for a different audience. It's okay to stick to things like MD where I can play Ninjas to M1 and feel happy about it.

[@daltronius]

@@D4PPZ456 i wish i could, but i really miss showing up to a locals that alongside maybe one meta deck, would be filled with jank and casual archetypes and playstyles for variety, but then around link era begining, we got filled with full power u link and gouki hand loops, and since then u cant play bad decks and have fun, bc the entire experience is torture

[@bocodamondo]

people say it ironically, but i do think some cards are made with duel links in mind, like the recent battlin boxer support that finally made its way to the game with a fairly decent skill to make them playable also i think having non meta duels is alot more common in OCGland than TCG due to the lower entry price

[@wanderlustwarrior]

No one said the new Shi En wasn't good on its own. That wasn't the point. Also, saying your video is "with" someone isn't the same as saying you're responding to them.

[@hurrdurrmurrgurr]

All this guy does is reheat what everyone else already said with clickbait titles.

[@CronoEpsilon]

As far as high level Yugioh goes, if its not Meta, its often considered useless. Rogue? Trash. Budget Options? Garbage. Not every deck needs to be meta, but there should be a space to play the non-meta that Konami prints. Otherwise you're left with a game where most are priced out of.

[@Eiji475]

Casual play doesn't exist in yugioh. Even old formats are sweaty af now

[@daltronius]

@@Eiji475 yea man, my fun goat group is now sweaty and toxic, it used to fun playing yugioh like mtg, but now its awful

[@RoninWeeb_187]

For some reason, tcg players always want to be sweaty 24/7 even in casual setting. My older brother's playgroup for Magic the gathering with commander is like that and it gets a bit draining ngl lol.

[@realpatriot1769]

I feel like this could be solved by Konami focusing on printing more legacy support, instead of new archetypes all the time. Focus on bringing them up to a certain modern power level, not constant power creep. With the right support, older decks can compete with meta decks, thus alot of decks could suddenly become competitive and this creates a diverse format where the power level is maintained and not ever increasing.

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

Different formats... Domain. Pauper. A rotating "standard"...

[@FrozunLightning]

My locals died because it became too competitive and eventually over the past few years, all the casuals stopped going so it only left about 6 competitive people treating it as practice for ycs. It only had around 16-20 people. But price combined with the growing competitive sense there made people leave and now its pretty much dead. The store doesn't even get much yugioh product anymore. And the remaining competitive players don't even like playing against me if I'm on a rogue deck because its a waste of time. They only have so much time each week to practice and giving them a free win is meaningless when they want to try and win a tournament. I can totally understand, they want to get the most out of it because they've spent a lot of money and time. But it's also frustrating to not have a more casual option available.

[@Rurike]

I mean at least these six sam cards kept along with the decks style, some decks just get support that abandon their identity to turn to generic material spam or get a janky skill drain

[@Tyler-Wiley]

Six Sams are playable, but Konami for whatever reason wants to keep Gateway at 1 which makes the deck unplayable.

[@jvsonic2468]

@@Tyler-Wiley They need to errata Gateway, so Six Sams can actually get to it consistently without having worry about an insane unfair amount of advantage it brings.

[@Tyler-Wiley]

@@jvsonic2468 Have you been playing this game lately? Everything is unfair, games end in 1 turn now. Tier 1 or 0 decks have 1 card starters. You are delusional, just admit you are biased against the deck and we can move on. What are Six Sams going to do with 1 search in todays meta? There is no way you are playing advanced format if you actually think errating Gateway to a once per turn is helping them.

[@bl00by_]

​@@Tyler-Wiley If a once per turn kills it then lock gateway into six sams or something. The card in it's current state is terribly designed and either needs a errata or a ban. Aslong as gateway exists you cannot print good six sam support.

[@FakeHeroFang]

Alien moment. Funny thing is, Alien still sucks ass at getting their wheels spinning after getting VRAINS era support, so they have to steal from better reptile decks.

[@markchang2964]

19:42 we need alt formats. Also never purchased random products for myself because I know how little value I would get. Alt formats like draft would give the average new card more value.

[@brakromlord5197]

A couple others have said this as well, but it’s less about decks being meta and more… you can’t really play them at all. The problem now is that even locals are starting to become more and more competitive, and as such, people who enjoy these lower power decks more or less get pushed away because they go 0-4 every week and barely even get to put one card in the board each match. At that point, most players would start to question why they even bother showing up since the game stops being fun for them, and it doesn’t help that the tournament setting for locals can still lead to folks being sweaty and not really talking a whole lot. Worst part of all this is that there isn’t a great solution to this, a lower power format would be nice but it’s bad for business since now less cards would sell. I’ve been advocating for shops to run advertised free play nights but I get that they kinda need people to pay to play or they could go out of business. Really, we’re just kinda stuck with no place to play our favorite decks until Konami decides our deck is meta, and that just flat out sucks.

[@Gravekeeper5890]

Stevie is missing the mark this time around.

[@MasterDecoy1W]

I feel like Konami should be pushed to try the "smogon style" before you nix it. The best way to solve a bunch of your hypothetical gotcha questions would be by collecting data and seeing if it can be applied to create a new functioning format. Let them try and if it's a disaster then you have data that corroborates this take, but until then you're basically shooting in the dark (even if you do have reasoning behind your shots).

[@methmeth]

I want to mention 2 things. People don't want every support to make those decks meta. People want a place where they can play them. My favorite Anime deck is Cyber Dragon ... If I go to my local, I would get cooked alive by the meta decks. So I wish there was a more casual format. MTG has commander. When Wizards prints a commander for a really shitty archetype like Spiders or something, then I can still build and play that deck. In Yugioh unless Konami prints Circular or Nightmare Throne the support is never enough and there is no place to play them in an even semi competitive setting. Secondly, Smogon does take into account meta shits. They track the usage in the last 3 months and weigh the last month highest. Pokémon moves in and out of the different tiers all the time. Also, people forget the most used cards are usually cards like Ash and Imperm, they would also go into Ubers so it would only be used against decks that could actually handle getting hand trapped. I think the biggest issue is we don't have the data. I think Konami does, at least for Master Duel, but they don't really have a desire to add another format. I think the only real solution is... rotation. I know, I know, you can boo me now. I think Heart of the Cast had an episode on this last week, and I think they found a solution that would keep Konami happy. The question is if they will even care to try something like that.

[@adsventuresome7511]

A friend of mine and I have been designing an expaned edison format that incorporates a lot of the support for the bad gx and good 5ds Archetypes up to just before Shinning Darkness. Our goal is simply to make the game feel the same without jumping beyond what SD did to Yugioh. We picked Synchros that wouldn’t break the format or dramatically chage the meta. Dark Dimentional Warrior from 2022 can loop PS Zombie without breaking that card. Fun stuff like that that just gets you to a lv 7 synchro. Why was Raiden released so far after LightSworn was? Stuff like that is fun to play around with. Make alternate formats if Konami won't give them to us.

[@calvinbarboza]

My main issue is the leagues of difference between decks. Even meta decks can’t play through a board anymore unless they get a god hand and the opponent misplays. This means every deck just plays obscene amounts of Handtraps to stop those boards from happening. Non meta decks run too much engine to do this and now every meta decks run feels the same. Playing Yubel, Snake Eye, maliss, Ryzeal, etc. feel almost identical because you just go through a very wrought combo and end on more disruption than your opponent has plays followed by some flavor of OTK. The lethality is also insane, I feel like any card that is meant to be used past turn 2 is useless since you die if your opponent gets any level of play.

[@rabehaymen6530]

What do you think is an acceptable winrate of a casual player playing casual deck vs a casual player playing a meta deck ? 90% ??? Now it feels like even if the casual player playing meta deck miss played they can play through 2 handtrap and end on 3-4 disruption, and your casual ain't playing through that with 2-3 cards in hand, and when we say casual deck it's not just decks from the past, we are talking decks like ashen, nouvelle, vaalmonica, if you keep losing with them you will lose interest in them quickly, and when you start complaining "some" competitive players start saying " he just a casual he doesn't know what a healthy meta is, you just don't love interactive and skill testing meta", this is not an exam, i just want to pass time

[@jameeljohnson19]

TRUMP format was peak modern ygo For those wondering what trump format was. It was the last format of 2023 when legitimately 15 to 20 decks were viable Tearlament Rescue ace Unchained Mannadium Purrely

[@jvsonic2468]

It would have been if competitive players didn't complain about not being able to stop certain decks from tramping over theirs just because they have no room to fit in "silver bullet" cards that works against them.

[@raishijtenobles3103]

This is something that I could see alt formats alleviating, bc 95% of cards will never see play in TCG Advanced, but would be almost broken in limited formats. Even then, I'd rather a deck get no support than for them to get support like the Altergeist support that just completely changes the playstyle from a bad control deck, to a combo deck that still can't keep up with even the tier 2 combo decks. Also, at 5:58 can you clarify what you mean by "Rarity Gatekept"? Because if you mean "cards that support a previous archetype and are kept high rarity until reprints", wouldn't cards like Quem, Blazing Cartesia, Sanctifire, the ROTA Mermail Support, Ulcanix etc. qualify as rarity gatekept?

[@gligarguy4010]

Paul needs to react to this one too.

[@drpulcinella1870]

Thank you for reminding me that someone at Konami translations absolutely HATES Kalin Kessler

[@huggernaut55]

I actually really like that there are powered down decks that you can build for like 30 bucks and jam games with friends. I built a nouvelle deck, and it's not good, but when someone is playing blue eyes or something you can have really fun back and forth games.

[@rafflesiaandfriends]

I just hate pack filler aka free agents and I love legacy support even more than new archetypes, I don't even care if it's good as long as that deck is better.

[@madnessends2477]

I love it with when 15 deck are viable

[@default9314]

Thats a bad thing... why???

[@fnfgammer2014]

AGOV was well agreed to be a bad format

[@yamiyamigorogoro5739]

@@default9314 its a good thing.

[@madnessends2477]

@ by whom? Pak and other pro players who didn’t like the fact it was harder to win events?

[@renaldyhaen]

​@@default9314 Having 10+ competitive decks in modern Yu-Gi-Oh! can be problematic because modern decks often require specific counters or "silver bullet" cards to deal with them effectively. However, if you watch Farfa’s Last Card Standing after week 15 or so, you’ll notice a wide variety of decks being played. Despite the diversity, the matches feel "fair" and entertaining to watch. This is because, in a mid- or lower-power format, decks aren’t capable of auto-winning, even if you don’t draw the specific counter card. The games become more interactive and balanced, making them more enjoyable for both players and viewers.

[@skyzip4k171]

to be fair with the ryzeal example you should hold your ht for duodrive and your imperms for your turn if they dont go duo drive.

[@KigerrTLON]

I'm luckily in a good area that has 6 different card shops and all of them try different formats like time wizard etc which ends up being what you are looking for a couple weeks, but then people work shop it and find the 2-3 "busted" decks for the limitations of the format then people stop showing up

[@rafflesiaandfriends]

As for your tier system you could just have it for archetype named cards only and if an archetype wins too often, it moves up a tier and if a deck doesn't have much of a showing it might move down a tier and you could release these changes alongside the F&L list.

[@Knightmare0259]

Honestly, I wish there were more deck building events with alternative banlists like in Master Duel.

[@cawrhy]

There’s so many cool decks / archetypes / cards that I want to play that I just never will because they get obliterated by meta and Konami doesn’t support formats other than advanced except at the very highest level (YCS, Nationals, etc.)

[@zyro7756]

Honestly, this is just an effect of having an unlimited format. When you have multiple years of power creep, mechanics and design evolution then only the truly elite will rise to the top

[@rickmel-q7m]

not really, all the games with rotation have decks that crush everything else

[@Knightmare0259]

I'm still waiting for the U.A. normal summon that actually goes positive.

[@ThaRealElementX]

I wish my keyboard sounded like his and i have no faith in Koonami will have a format where the lesser used cards can exist and be played

[@spncrgrn]

Finally a measured take THANK U STEVIE

[@selrach771]

I'd love for gateway of the six to get banned and for the archetype to get support that makes it's play style more modern, 1.5 card combos etc. Having a monster negate, spell trap negate, a book of moon and the ability to reset one or two of these built in interactions would be cool. Unfortunately as long as gateway exists the deck only exist to build ftks or functional ftks which just aren't fun.

[@jvsonic2468]

Or.....errata Gateway to make each of its applied effect at least a soft once per turn.

[@JorgeSanchez-zk6zw]

When people say YGO cards are not made for draft and "No more vanillas". They ignore this kind of generic and sub-optimal cards, which in a booster draft are what give you the win, and Archetpe centric cards become the vanillas with lore. Same with Sneak Peek format (like drafct but all booster contents are you to keep)

[@plantseason290]

Theres no way six sam doesnt have some place in the meta. Anarchist monk literally kills ryzeal if six sam goes first. Im just convinced most deckbuilders arent that creative and write off anything not immediately perceived as busted as bad.

[@vats386]

I dont think every deck will be "meta viable" but having formats that can play things that arent the top decks would be nice, the issue is that when you sit down for yugioh if your deck isnt even rouge then you dont play, you will be shut out of almost every game so bad you might not ever be able to put a card down. Yeah its gonna take play and practice to make various teirs of ban list, but it would be worth it

[@four-en-tee]

The answer is "play alternative formats." You keep saying it can't be done, but we're finally seeing a shift in the community. Domain Format looks like its finally popping off, and obviously i never shut up about the format I'm working on. This game needs alternative ways to play, or else its just going to eat itself alive. Konami doesn't do enough to balance this game themselves, and we're bleeding players because of it. BUT HERE'S THE KICKER: even if Konami did balance their format (whether that be through a more aggressive ban list or a new master rule), it wouldn't solve the issue that there's only 1 way currently to play Yugioh. So if for whatever reason Ryzeal became utter dog shit after Konami decided to take on a more aggressive form of game balancing, you suddenly are left with a shitty deck that can't feasibly play in the format. That's why we need alt formats, they help breathe new life into a player's already existing collection. Yugioh shouldn't be this rotating door where EVERY player is expected to offload a deck the second it becomes unviable in the advanced format.

[@ultimaterare3146]

Most cards will be useless in an eternal format. This issue is the exact same on MTG’s Legacy format.

[@jean-philippegrignom6479]

Generaider also got QQ in 2024

[@Ether_Liner_Ado_Edem]

QQ does so much for the deck despite not being an archetype card. The amount of bricks you can get rid of with it is insane

[@jean-philippegrignom6479]

It's the best support the deck has ever had IMO, the orcust Link 1 will also give the deck a 1card field spell 3 hand loop.

[@Justaplebxd1998]

the good question is why do they have to be meta to begin with

[@Osindileyo]

Not every deck has to be, or will be, meta. The problem is the lack of places to play these non meta cards without being stomped. The tweet at the start is exactly the point, why print cards if we can’t realistically play them?

[@Elzette_of_the_White_Forest]

The answer is White Forest. Because it's more fun and the artwork is WAY better.

[@hurrdurrmurrgurr]

"with ‪@TeamAPS‬" Where? I don't see anyone else here, it's just you making a response video.

[@asmodios4456]

these cards are not for you they are for fun just for wild deck builders that wanna compete at the local level yet alot of locals are full of sweaties pushing maliss and ryzeal :/. Every deck doesn't need to be meta viable but i feel the power gaps should be adjusted barely any chance to beat a tier 1 deck with a tier 3 outside of bricking or mulcharmies and almost no chance to beat a tier 3 deck with a rogue deck out side of floodgates which is toxic and nowadays when its meta deck vs meta deck it feels like who goes first wins in most cases

[@ActionJaxx]

I’m so tired of the “play this at locals” level decks. Those DON’T exist! Locals are basically just YCS level net decks vs maybe one Rouge player. As someone who’s a “budget” (not insane like only spend $30 on a deck but also can’t drop 1k for the new tier 1-0 deck) I literally got 1-3 at max and most of the time that’s because I got the bye. It’s a real problem in Yugioh that you can’t play what you want or play a deck you think is interesting. If it’s not the new tier 0-tier 1 YCS winner that needs to be hit in the band list, it’s useless Jank….

[@JaimeAGB-pt4xl]

YGO has the biggest learning curve/intro point ... and then unless the player is Very Into the game for 1 reason or another (mostly nostalgia, or the feeling of starting full power because YGO players can't fadom building a board vía resource management), they will migrate to other/superior games with more Actual options to play and Deeper interaction/gameplay (because all decks play basically the same strats with no significant distinction as the end result: spec summon spam/negations/destruction or interaction) with different gameplay styles And formats ... instead of just pushing product through power creep and banlist

[@kroffen7]

Hot take! If we had Smogon tiering then UU or RU would be the most miserable tier by a mile! Darkworld, Six Sam, Blackwing, Tellar knights etc as for as the eye can see!

[@alexanderbatterbee8369]

H arcanine was a poor example of that. You can definitely run it defensive with snarl/will o wisp, etc

[@adamsherwani3971]

The only cards that should always be made meta viable are pendulum cards

[@Taubenmann1510]

Thanks for telling me that my Six Samurai deck should not be meta viable! Now, where do I go with it?

[@LordApoca]

Had a buddybwho made a toon swordsoul deck. He went 4-1. This was at the height of swordsoul lmao.

[@thewalkingdude0136]

I actually enjoy kuchen format just because instead of facing nutbuster dragon and getting one shot into next week I face really tough looking guy who I can at least hit a few times before he throws me across the room but ya they do hate there floodgates in kuchen and they focus on interaction

[@marvisgraves1192]

Whatever happened to underdog?

[@randommaster06]

Both under-powered archetypes and legacy support ese combine with te TCG constantly rarity bumping those pushed archetypes for the triple whammy of pay-to-win. Yo u can buy the basic subscription for $50 for decks with linear, fragile combos and limited interaction, or you can pay $1000 for "Real Yugioh" which comes with cool features like meaningful gameplay decisions and flexible interaction. Secondary and legacy archetypes support feels wasted because Konami has one or two obviously pushed archetypes. There's an obviously favorite child who gets to party all night while everyone else has a curfew at Ash-o-clock. Additionally, legacy support goes against the TCG appeal in an eternal format. Players want new cards. Konami want players to buy new cards. Legacy support wants old cards. All the other problems stem from this. It's not reviving a deck, it's upgrading the life-support equipment.

[@death100ify]

I made my own blue eyes deck and that became my main deck no pot of greed in the deck

[@worthywill9294]

17:34 this argument.... again 🙄

[@j.s.h7046]

six samurai needs 1 card starters or atleast make it an unfair 2 card starter deck if you are gonna need 2 gateway to spam 100 monsters and other archetypes just spam 100 monsters without gateway then whats the point of the card except FTKs? six samurai suffers from an identity crisis with the counters and konami doesnt know what to do about it

[@Tyler-Wiley]

If we don't get a 1 card starter, we should at least get Gateway back to 3 to compete.

[@23jewfan]

Yugioh ruined the game with card design when they started making cards like Moyi/Circular/Poplar. When they printed cards that search a card which summons itself which searches a card that summons itself which triggers itself is just the nail on the card design coffin. Two card combos or running generic extenders to push through handtraps are dead. 1.5 card combos are considered rouge. Its 1 card combos or bust.

[@jvsonic2468]

I gotta be that guy; it was moreso making the ceiling of combo decks go far & wide in the first place as in that cause made more problems within the design of the game after like how going-2nd staples became more powerful, versatile, and/or utilizable to combat against them going 1st killing any older decks from being competent or able to shine through or how engines became more generic as time went on because certain future decks Konami push that can combo have to play through handtraps that are being widely played in almost every deck before them only for them to end up be widely played in many decks. A lot of the generic bullshit Extra Deck boss monsters shouldn't exist or shouldn't been generic anyway. If Borreload Savage required a Rokket monster and/or a DARK Dragon Tuner, the card wouldn't nearly be widely played as it was but still can be an option for any deck if you have the room to fit in the needed materials & how to get them on the field. Same philosophy with Chaos Angel & Chaos Ruler (along with ways to nerf LIGHT & DARK support), Baronne De Fleur (making it require a Synchron Tuner and a WIND Warrior Synchro Monster would suffice for what the card provided), Divine Arsenal AA-ZEUS - Sky Thunder (even though Konami made the attempt to balance it out from being so generic for Xyz decks), & Apollousa Bow of the Goddess as well as now S:P Little Knight because it has been played in too many decks that are able to consistently proc its effects each turn with little to no downside; however for the Link Monsters listed, they don't directly belong to nor was made for any particular theme which makes things a bit of a hassle in rebalancing it. 1-card combos to 1.5 card combos are just victims to what Konami allowed the design of the game to go through. We just need great alternative formats (official or not) that support casual ways to play, so our non-competitive deck-building strats, gameplay strats, styles, themes, etc are more welcomed.

[@launchpadmcquack24]

My for fun deck is orcust, but we really on the comeup rn

[@arthurmontiel2665]

My favourite for fun deck is raidraptor. Why is it only for fun? Because it dies to: ash, imperm, veiler, nib, Fuwalos, d shifter, droll, ghost ogre, mourner, bystials and called by.

[@rickmel-q7m]

yugioh "fun" = getting all of your plays negated and then dying on turn 2

[@yodxxx1]

The problem is that konami wants to make a card game, while players want to take the "game" away, and have every card be a 1 card win Yugioh has reached a point where anything reasonable is considered trash because its not a super broken instant win card Konami also needs to be carefull, because anything reasonable just a little bit too strong can allow for the worst unfun strategys... Best recent example for this is gimmik puppets They finally got some support which allows them to combo and their damage strategy got streamlined... aaaand now they have an ftk because a combo was found which allows for that

[@albertocasaluci8738]

Bait used to be believable

[@HDGaminTutorials]

There the ones who print the floodgates and don't get rid of them just get rid of every floodgate it's dumb and it's been going on to long I don't care about negates but full of floodgates suck balls to play against

[@N3XTREVOLUTION]

Ok i posted the same thing on aps's video but most of the issues with casual players on these decks comes down to poor technical play and bad deck building skills. Iv taken plenty of rogue and casual drcks to locals and regionals and either went undefeated vs meta or topped. Complaining about meta design isn't gonna change konami so the next best thing is to teach casuals how to play Yu-Gi-Oh and how to build their decks properly.

[@Ether_Liner_Ado_Edem]

Id say this is true but at some point Konami will have to make a change to overall deck design for this issue to be lightened

[@N3XTREVOLUTION]

Yeah I'm not giving Konami a pass but with sales and attendance at all time highs they aren't in a position to change so we as players need to help out. Iv been going to locals with tons of excess cards when I play a casual who seems lost I give them what they need and teach them how play their deck and in turn they show up again next week. ​@@Ether_Liner_Ado_Edem

[@W_Sir_Morpheus]

Lol ok and bud, your good congrats 😂😅👏

[@N3XTREVOLUTION]

@W_Sir_Morpheus way to miss the point but ok

[@W_Sir_Morpheus]

@@N3XTREVOLUTION 👏👌

[@litigation-q5u]

Unplayable means just that, the new six sam stuff the decks is very play able, its just not meta relevant

[@rickmel-q7m]

everything that isn't on the banlist is "playable" whether you're going to enjoy getting all of your plays negated and dying on turn 2 is another matter

[@Mewatron]

I play Magnet Warrior Vernusylph at locals and legit I don’t feel like I am that far behind the meta game. I take games off Ryzeal and Malice, I took a match of Ryzeal last locals.

[@Tyler-Wiley]

Six Sams isn't a failed design. It's currently being neutered by the ban list. The deck was always competitive since Storm of Ragnarok, all Konami had to do was get out of the way and unban/unlimit their cards.

[@vaxel0068]

If they get an errata to be hard once per turn then that would be acceptable, maybe a master rule 6 where every card has a hard once per turn by default.

[@Tyler-Wiley]

@@vaxel0068 Why would there need to be an errata in the first place? Errating the card makes it unplayable which is worse than what we have now. What players don't understand is that Gateway at 3 is balanced now in 2025 with all this power creep and everybody playing 15 hand traps. This isn't 2011 anymore, times have changed for the worse and what was broken then is balanced now. Worst case scenario, if Gateway at 3 is too broken, we can always move it to 2 with the ban list.

[@fudouakio4759]

@@Tyler-Wiley It needs an errata so it isnt unbearably long and just spamming Non-OPT effects. Lame ass way to play

[@vaxel0068]

@@Tyler-Wiley or just leave it at 1 and not bother. Gateway is not balanced, it's worse with links. Best case scenario, make it a hard once per turn and unlimit to give the deck consistency.

[@Tyler-Wiley]

@ You're supposed to scoop is someone gets off an FTK against you.

[@otterfire4712]

A smogon tierlist would be done on a individual card level rather than by archetype. This would catch up staples, hand traps, and other generic cards. That said, a large swath of archetypes could be bundled to certain tiers, but there are underperformers in archetypes that could mesh with other archetypes.

[@francysvarona3567]

Same thing with New Evil heroes

[@W_Sir_Morpheus]

Easy fix, errata the cards that make these archetypes degenerate, then release new legacy support to make them playable in todays/ future metas. So gateway of the six as a example and its dumbass loops, ( and i love six sams) errata it, and lets get new support so their competitive.

[@jvsonic2468]

Exactly! Why hasn't Konami planned for such things before??? Sure they would have the rarities of the legacy cards for the TCG set changed to accommodate for their business, but it's worth the investment if the legacy support makes the theme rogue & have the degenerate cards nerfed in some way to be less degenerate. Though we do have bigger problems within card design that errata-ing degenerate cards wouldn't fix like the power jumps throughout history of YGO & making battle phase irrelevant when they speed up the game, but you're solution provides a bigger Band-Aid than what Konami's way of Band-Aid-ing the design of the format, so I'll gladly take it.

[@death100ify]

I only play yugioh for fun and make some wierd decks. i don't play locals only with friends and my bro cause I like to put 3 pot of greeds in my deck and pot of greed is not over power

[@phenexgaming6094]

I find cubic and fluffal fun two play

[@bl00by_]

I don't understand why people brought up six sam of all decks. Six sam is one of those decks where you should be glad that it isn't good. That deck is nothing but a FTK infinite loop counter spam deck. Same goes for decks like Dark World or Synchron. Those are literall FTK decks. You would have to ban key pieces of those decks to make them okay, which makes me ask what even the point is then. If you ban Junk Speeder or Gateway you basically just kill the decks. Which turns off the option to play them.

[@deckzonetcg8907]

When did yugioh become so full of cry babies? Everything cant be the same tier of good. You wanna play non meta? Call your friends and ask them to play you with non meta. Going into a tournament scene and getting mad cause your non competitive deck isnt stomping is crazy talk.

[@damianrogowski5519]

back in the days we had atleast a chance to win now its like 0%

[@deckzonetcg8907]

@damianrogowski5519 yes but this "participation trophy" mentality is so stupid.

[@lit_wick]

It's a LOT of work, but the magic the gathering route would work. Every card is getting a numbered ranking. You put your deck into a deck list website a it'll tier your deck for you based on every card in it.

[@MasterDecoy1W]

Magic doesn't have that, it's a pie-in-the-sky scenario that WotC floated as chaff to calm people down in the wake of an upsetting change. They will slowly walk that idea back for a few months and then they will come out with a lesser solution once people have been pacified.

[@emeraldeyes5319]

I feel like you completely miss the point of the discussion, which has never been that "the support is not good enough", but that "There is no space to play non-Meta decks in the community". You don't adress that at all and your "conclusions" sound like you think you've solved the whole topic with some solution that you simply haven't given.

[@STEPHxCA]

Putting Nouvelles in the thumbnail is diabolical lol. I just saw an in depth guide for it on Master Duel and a couple people have made it up to Masters with it. I’m convinced (with some exceptions) the key is to adapt to whatever the meta is and find ways to take advantage of it or counter it.

[@Ether_Liner_Ado_Edem]

Tbf its relatively easy to get to masters with any rogue deck if you have time

[@chimadang1573]

Can you stop putting "with" in your titles

[@dpacula63]

If a deck isn’t expensive it isn’t good.

[@vaxel0068]

Makes sense, why spend that much in cards that do nothing?

[@dpacula63]

@@vaxel0068competitive cards should be cheap so more players can get them and not get priced out of the game. The collectible stuff should be the expensive hard to get cards. It can literally be both but Yugioh is a shitty card game.

[@vaxel0068]

@@dpacula63 I would like for competitive cards to be cheaper myself, I can't afford either malisse nor ryzeal. That being said, konami has to sell boxes and cases to people that if given the choice would just buy a couple of commons and be done with it. Unlike pokemon, where every charizard, pikachu and eevee sell for thousands with their collectors cards, yugioh doesn't have the same collector value ( unless you want to see a reprint of blue eyes in every set), the secondary market is the fault of the consumer (us players), if we didn't expect a return for our investment every time we open sealed product and opened more then there would be a lot more staple cards floating around at a cheaper price

[@rickmel-q7m]

@@vaxel0068 tell me you never played a tcg without telling me :)

[@vaxel0068]

@@rickmel-q7m sure, whatever you think.