How Lewis Hamilton's 2008 F1 Title is under threat

[@Jay_137x]

Just a reminder here, this has nothing to do with how Massa may feel about Lewis, but rather how the fia conducted themselves which lead to Lewis winning the title

[@GardenGuy1942]

I think it’s racially charged.

[@Fastbikkel]

Exactly. It's also quite possible that Massa would rather win a championship on track instead of like this. Let me emphasize though that i think there is little chance FIA will reverse the outcome, which i can also understand. But a statement needs to be made for sure.

[@slartibartfast2649]

@Dean you sound like Hamilton himself....

[@ryanc3368]

@@GardenGuy1942 you think massa is a racist? ... come on man.

[@redluca56]

@@slartibartfast2649 Then stop giving people justification if you don't want it to be used

[@ronald3023]

I feel that if the title was handed to massa after this would cause a lot of drivers to protest and also want their title challenging seasons reviewed, like fernando in 2012

[@inf1nity_yt]

At last, Paul Di Resta won’t have ruined a championship finish

[@OnurP1]

@@inf1nity_yt All Seb needed to win was to finish 8th or higher. He was already sixth and catching the driver in fifth. Nando had no chance of winning that title after Vettel climbed back.

[@Lastname6955]

You would have to investigate Adelaide 1994. So blatant but Schumacher got off scott free

[@weignerleigner3037]

@@OnurP1yeah but I think at one race that season the redbull was found to have been running illegal floors yet still kept the points for that race. If they went back and disqualified the redbull Fernando is champion.

[@Christzo18]

There is nothing controversial that happened that screwed alonso that season

[@robertthorne3429]

The problem is if Ferrari hadn’t made an issue with the fuel pump he would have potentially picked up a point or two. Yes the pit stop itself shouldn’t have happened due to crashgate but equally Ferrari made the mistake in circumstances

[@Bahamuttiamat]

And then we'd have to bring up what happened in Spa, where lewis was given an unjust penalty and robbed a win.

[@RNCHFND]

@@Bahamuttiamat that's not how a lawsuit works, they wouldn't "have to deal" with anything. If Lewis wants to appeal this other situation, he can

[@Chuyew]

​@@Bahamuttiamat In that time there wasn't 5 seconds time penalty so FIA couldn't gave him a lower penalty.

[@mukyalex9246]

The issue is the whole race. Since its proven to be manipulated so the whole race should be invalidated, or validated. So the pit stop didn't only affect Massa, but everyone so Ferrari's mistake is irrelevant. I don't think anything will happen, at least regarding the title even the court can't force FiA to revoke the title legally. But Massa for sure can get some damages in court, which could cost FIA millions.

[@backjarton01]

So the issue lies with pit stops? Fuel hoses? I can see the connection but there’s nothing to say Lewis unjustly benefited while Massa was unjustly punished by Renault orchestrating a safety car window

[@siphillis]

Unless McLaren participated in Crashgate, you can't strip away Hamilton's championship. He could've just as easily been victim to the crash, and Massa the beneficiary, and I doubt Massa would be suing to undo that scenario.

[@williamm9766]

a very solid point. had McLaren been part of the Crashgate scandal then it could have been a very valid appeal

[@SanskarT136]

The drivers abd teams involved are disqualified quickly. Spygate one had no effects on the drivers though only the team was disqualified.

[@Iamtheilluminati]

@@williamm9766 people have been saying Lewis benefitted from Crashgate. If Crashgate didn’t happen then you could say ‘hypothetically’ key word being Hypothetically say the last three rounds would’ve played out differently

[@slartibartfast2649]

I agree with your sentiment, but a safety car never helps the person in pole. It removes the gaps between drivers, which is great for everyone except the leader.

[@tilbintt3491]

@@slartibartfast2649 a safety car can happen at any time under any circumstances. This was nothing but a result of very bad decisions from Ferrari that Massa lost out. It has nothing to do with the crash itself. Every other driver and team made a clean pitstop and exit except Massa and Ferrari.

[@AndreBakerTrigga]

The fact that Felipe left with the hose and that this didn’t happen in the final race is enough reason to leave this alone. I do feel it for him.

[@blckbuda6651]

I think it’s crazy that every ‘criminal’ element of this is being overlooked and the focus is on the athletes.

[@wildsnivy7225]

I feel bad for Felipe, but Renault weren't the ones who told him to leave his pit box before the fuel hose disconnected. Formula 1 is, in fact, a team sport

[@novsegundos]

mate, you have to blame the light, not renault and felipe

[@justadummy8076]

@@novsegundos who controls the lights? (Genuine question, not sarcasm)

[@novsegundos]

The pitcrew guy, He pressed the button in the wrong hour

[@Aurantius_]

But the pit stop would not have happened in the first place. That’s the point.

[@novsegundos]

@@Aurantius_ yeah makes sense too mate, you got a point

[@scsutton1]

If we start doing this, we might as well tear up the entire seventy-two year history of Formula One and go over it with a fine tooth comb and check the validity of every single drivers and constructors championship. It's a rabbit hole that I certainly don't want to explore.

[@RNCHFND]

Good thing you're not a F1 driver, then

[@rizwany2071]

Where was this energy last year?

[@broncobalboa]

last time i checked, we only have one race that has been without a doubt manipulated by a driver crashing on purpose.

[@TattvaRajput24]

Then Prost should be given the 1989 championship then. At least he will have justice while we still have his presence. And also Hamilton should be handed the 2021 title so both parties can be happy.

[@aimankamil4818]

@@TattvaRajput24 why would lewis get the 2021 title? If AD is a bust max will still win it

[@omgitssnayx]

If this getting overturned I’m sure Lewis will probably start a similiar thing with the 2021 season. I know it’s not the same scenario but he and his legal team will surely try it. I’m pretty sad for Massa not having any titles but at the end of the day the pitstop played a huge role for that 1 point gap. Tbh Ferrari being Ferrari back then as well.

[@jayme3181]

They should just void the whole season. Once the FIA had allowed the season to be corrupted, nothing could be said to be deserved thereafter.

[@mclarensaleenf7]

2008, 2021, or both? I mean Lewis’ championship was straight up stolen in ‘21 by Masi’s clearly illegal safety car handling. Both seasons were tainted but I feel like ‘21 was more evident and happened right in front of everyone’s eyes.

[@cornnatron3030]

@@mclarensaleenf7 21 wasnt fair but wasnt illegal neither as their was a rule that the race director had the last say which masi was unfortunately . also if they only null the results of abudabi max would still win the championship where they to null the whole season non would be champion so lewis would still not have his 8th + it would give RB a chance to than challenge the penalty/fine for the budget cap cause well how could they have overspend when the season doesnt count and not to forget the other teams who would all complain cause if the season doesnt count how would the windtunnel times be divided or the money ? does everybody than get the same amount of windtunnel time and do they all have to give back their constructors earnings for that year ? seeing if the season doesnt count the standings dont count and if that doesnt count it means everybody ended on the same points as everybody else 0.

[@omgitssnayx]

@@mclarensaleenf7 It's a shitty situation but the best option is probably just accept both (2008, 2021)'s outcome. This choice won't start a storm for sure. At least in 2021 during the Abu Dhabi I was entertained af I cannot lie :D In 2008 I was shocked and sad.

[@itsrasalhague]

Revisiting Abu Dhabi 2021, everyone had a choice to pit for a new set of tires but Merc decided to stay out. Lewis was vocal about this on the radio. RB has equipped Max with new softs and the rest was history.

[@robdavies82]

Queue all the experts on the 2008 F1 season from people who only started watching F1 after browsing Netflix one day

[@slicklace]

Are you one of them? 😂

[@robdavies82]

@@slicklace no, to be exact, I was watching F1 for 10 years and 1 month before crashgate 😎

[@slicklace]

@@robdavies82 was just messing with you Rob 😊….

[@evanroldan9566]

As a Ferrari Fan myself, I moved on from 2008. I'm just enduring 16 years of heartbreak and I will never stop until Ferrari wins a championship again

[@slartibartfast2649]

Last time Ferrari was truly dominant, the team was made up of British, German and French. Since everyone has been Italian, everything has gone to pot. Maybe the new chap can do some good. On a serious note, though, I would love to see Ferrari win. I'm not a fan as such, but it doesn't get much better than an underdog who was once great. A bit like Nottingham Forrest.

[@HibiTeamQueso]

​@@slartibartfast2649 is that actually true? Cause there's lots of spaniards at Ferrari

[@slartibartfast2649]

​@@HibiTeamQueso The last time Ferrari was the de facto top team was under Jean Todt (a French dude) from 1994-2007 when most of the high level engineers were British, German or French, and their best driver was German. That is why Fred Vasseur can only be a step in the right direction. He eats croissants not pasta. It is as simple as that.

[@rr-tv4763]

McLaren fan and I have moved on to. Sadly we to have had pain since that season.

[@Crisandf1]

As a fellow Ferrari fan, I say that 2024 will be our year!

[@mannedi8665]

That Last race in Brazil was one of the most emotional races ever. Seeing Massa on that podium so very emotional winning in his home country and knowing he didn't win the championship. For me at that time he was the champ.

[@holtz000]

Europeans always acting like pigs towards Brazil since XVIth century

[@ewenm2]

No way they can do this after 15 years. It's just ridiculous

[@grayaj23]

I agree. It's not ridiculous to have an accounting of what happened and airing the dirty laundry. But there's no justification for changing the outcomes. Massa may be entitled to vindication, but that's as far as it goes IMO.

[@johnsmith401]

well, in fact, a court resolution can, if they are going to push for it is another matter. The thing is, if these is true, then the real outcome is that Massa is the 2008 champion, regardless on how ridiculous could be, if there is a manipulation and can be prove, it is what it is

[@harveysymes5192]

Hamilton won't be stripped of his title as you create a deep rabbit hole the FIA won't allow. Also, the ICA will immediately shut this down because the 14-day timeframe has expired so it cannot be overturned. If you say massa lost the title because of this and should be overturned then by the same logic, in 1990 prost would say he should have that title as Senna took him out, 1994 when Hill was wiped out by Schumacher, 2021 when it was proven the race director didn't follow the rules etc. You open up a serious can of worms and again this is something the FIA will not allow to happen, it's been far too long get over it and move on.

[@Iamtheilluminati]

Spot on mate

[@slartibartfast2649]

This long after the event, a championship is just bragging rights anyway. Just leave it with Lewis. There seems to be a big trend at the moment for rewriting history that should be left alone.

[@TonyF1MMA]

@@slartibartfast2649 Purposely hitting another car to win the title wasn’t illegal in itself until 1997. No title before that could be challenged because of a purposeful collision. The FIA knew 1990 was probably purposeful and gave it to Senna because it didn’t matter.

[@dylanvogler2165]

So you agree people also must finally stop crying about '21 ?

[@slartibartfast2649]

@@dylanvogler2165 Yeah, I think they should both be left alone, but people can still have their own opinions.

[@gauravsashikumar692]

It's funny to think that if Felipe gets his way, one of the greatest lines in motorsports ("Is that Glock?") loses all its value

[@danonthestrings]

Funny how Ecclestone waited conveniently 15 years to speak up.

[@whatev888]

The issue with this is if you invalidate that race and then subsequently the championship you are now leaving so many other championships up to a challenge and this just will turn everything into a complete mess.

[@KlavarRecordings]

Not really, if others are so close and the driver is still alive then let them seek justice, why not, but there can’t be that many of them

[@chrisdavidson911]

@@KlavarRecordings people who say Massa is the real winner of this championship also say that Lewis fans need to shut up about 2021. It's not just the FIA that's inconsistent! Senna and Prost, Schumacher and Hill, Alonso and Hamilton, revisiting every time someone went off-track unfairly, qualifying infringements that went unpenalised, and many inconsistent judgments/penalties. There's actually a lot that can end up needing to be waded through. If Massa wins this, can McLaren start proceedings against Stepney for "Spygate" and $100,000? Kimi won 2007 by 1 point with Lewis finishing the last race 7th. He suddenly had a gearbox problem due to a computer issue whilst 6th, it put him 18th when the car reset; had McLaren been told they weren't allowed to win the driver's championship and sabotaged Lewis' car as soon as it looked like he could win? Bernie's admitted that him and Max Mosley did things to help Ferrari win championships, that needs wading through as well.

[@KlavarRecordings]

@@chrisdavidson911 the difference is, there was a team knowingly cheated in 2008 crashed on purpose, and the people in charge knew about it, in AD 21 no rules were broken Massi should have allowed t he cars to unlap a lap sooner but was too busy arguing with 2 teams. That stopped him doing his job, all teams agreed to finish under green and going into the last lap Lewis was in the same position as before the safety car, 1st, he lost that on track and not due to a team knowingly cheating. That’s the big difference in that one.

[@chrisdavidson911]

@@KlavarRecordings "he lost that on track and not due to a team knowingly cheating." Just like how nobody was "knowingly cheating" in 2008, until later when they found out.

[@pedrom.brandao7314]

To take the title away from Lewis would just be absurd. If the race was cancelled right there and then, that would have completely changed the rest of the season. The way lewis and massa would drive, the strategies of the teams and the works would have all changed. However, this is an exceptional situation. So I would propose an exceptional solution: have two champions. People might think that's lame, but there are precedents in other sports and it is what I would consider to be most fair.

[@lynxraide]

I disagree. Penalise Renault for that race and that would be it. Ferrari f'd up with their stop, that's their problem. Everyone was affected by that safety car, and everyone handled it the way they did. If Massa finished ahead of Hamilton would he be pushing the same if the end season result was the same?

[@pedrom.brandao7314]

​@@lynxraide That's fair enough, but it does not change the fact that by the regulations (as far as i can tell) if bernie ecclestone and max mosley knew what happened before the end of the championship, the race should have been canceled. So, yeah, there's a very fair and rather strong legal argument here. But because of what i said in the comment, I think taking the title away from Lewis would be wrong. That's why I propose a shared trophy. Only loss here should be on alonso's (and the rest of podium sitters) side, due to the cancelling of the race. They should lose the numbers (one less win on alonso's total, etc).

[@lynxraide]

@@pedrom.brandao7314 If there was more than one team involved, I would agree with cancelling the race, but since it was just Renault, and they were the only ones benefiting from it and it affected the other teams equally, the result should stand minus Alonso's and Renault's points, which means no change in champion or co-champion. If there were multiple teams involved, I would agree with cancelling the result. Yes, if they knew Eccleston and the FIA should have stripped the points for Alonso and Renault for that race. In one regard it would have changed the rest of the season which we can't exactly predict and wouldn't guarantee Massa a title. On the other, going by what did happen, Hamilton would have won the title by a greater margin. That's why for me awarding Massa co-champion makes no sense, especially since the blunder isn't on Renault trying to manipulate the race but Ferrari bungling the pit stop.

[@harveysymes5192]

@@pedrom.brandao7314 Problem is thats a big if and that if cannot be verified as Mosely has died. I am not questioning what Bernie is saying, but what i am saying is nothing can be confirmed or denied unless serious hard evidence is shown. Even then I don't really understand how a resolution can be made 14 years later when the deadline is 14 days, a bit late really because if you alter this race you set a dangerous precedent via creating a black hole of lawsuits from across the globe going XYZ happened in this race and should be voided therefore i will be the champion. 1994 Damon hill being wiped out ,1990 Alain prost arguably being premeditatedly taken out are two examples. The FIA will always be shrouded in corruption, they were aware of what was going on and did nothing and that has happened in the past, Massa won't get a title. But he is rightly entitled to answers to understand why the FIA did nothing about it and covered the entire scandal.

[@styren2815]

@@lynxraideRace fixing, even with only one team involved, is wrong and race should be cancelled, period.

[@noahdyson840]

I feel like this is the only way Ferrari will add another title

[@DimitriMoreira]

How? Ferrari already did win in 2008. Massa didn't.

[@lorcandonnelly1224]

If massa wins then a lot of 2nd place finishers would protest, including Hamilton in the 2021 championship

[@zakstratford744]

There are issues with this. 1. Other seasons would have to be reviewed where a controversial decision/action was taken and 2. The events proceeding the controversial would potential have changed (butterfly affect)

[@lorrydavs3361]

Absolutely 100% spot on. What a ridiculous story this is.

[@vaibhavmugulavalli3366]

The thing that most ppl are missing is that Massa is pissed of it the fact that Max Mosley did nothing knowing the fact that Renault were culprits behind crashgate and did nothing to equal the playing field.He very well knows that the championship cannot be overturned and is only seeking legal action against the FIA for negligence and unable to follow protocol.

[@babyshark805]

There is no way. I can’t even believe it’s getting this much attention. If they’re not correcting AD ‘21 there’s no way this is even a real story

[@metamonogatari3139]

Yeah imagine they would reflect upon that before reflecting upon this inconsistent mess of human error in the finale in 2021

[@LyamBenacon]

Abu Dhabi 2021 was made of dumb decisions whereas Singapore 2008 is a completely different fraud. Plus, after Spa 2021, all teams agreed that they should never end a race under safety car.

[@srxt6758]

If they dont classify Abu Dhabi 2021 and strip everyone from points from that race Max is still the champion lol

[@srxt6758]

​@@metamonogatari3139 they can strip everyone of points from that race and Max still wins the championship by having more wins. Max was anyways by far the better driver in 2021. And look at him now showing dominance not even Lewis showed. 15 wins in a year next to Ferrari that poled 10+ times in a year. Hamilton and Rosberg were ahead by a minute in 2014 and 2015 with no competition yet Lewis still couldnt beat the record of 13 wins. You cannot simply go over Hungary and Silverstone like that...

[@babyshark805]

@@srxt6758 yeah if they do that the only who gets screwed is Carlos. He got screwed in the race by not getting a shot to fight for the top, he’ll be the only losing points that got him 5th in the WDC. I believe just him and Charles will trade places weirdly🤷‍♀️

[@AdamStanleyCena]

They cannot strip Hamilton's tittle if they do take action with crashgate. It was seen when they identified why Max won the championship in 2021 due to the FIA's human error. But Max still kept the championship. So if the FIA find an issue and agree it took points off him, they still cannot take it off, especially 15 years later. Also, they messed up the pit stop and it easily took points off him so I doubt he would win the championship otherwise.

[@waa975]

2021 Max = legal, 2008 disgusting yellown head hamilton = illegal

[@NicotheSpeel]

i think the background music isnt loud enough guys

[@TechWithShon]

Considering the amount of things Bernie has said about Lewis recently, that can easily be shut down

[@Jay_137x]

This would create a dangerous precedent

[@carlcarlsberg5900]

Seeing as neither Massa or Lewis were to blame, give them both the title.

[@sadikurrahman4833]

If Singapore 2008 is removed wouldn’t there be a shuffle in the constructors as well then? Lots of people not just alonso benefitted from that. There would be arguments made against prize money as well with what position the team finished in overall etc. Massa needs to let it go. Why cope for 15 years for a championship? It’s going to seem hollow and there’s not really any actual joy or happiness winning a championship like that

[@weignerleigner3037]

I mean yes but at the same time imagine being in massas position. Realistically according to the rules he was the champion that season. You look at how Hamilton looks at 2021 saying he was robbed, seeing this all take place is very ironic.

[@sadikurrahman4833]

@@weignerleigner3037 Realistically it’s not going to happen. It’s been 15 years and this is also going to push other drivers to get titles as well. Massa has always been nothing but a whiner as well always looked to be on the verge of tears every time you see him. He got lapped by his rival he didn’t deserve 08. It would put a stain on the image of the sport as well.

[@sadikurrahman4833]

@@weignerleigner3037 It’s like breaking up with someone but then trying to go back to them 15 years later. He’s acting like a child.

[@weignerleigner3037]

@@sadikurrahman4833 I agree it’s not gunna happen and shouldn’t. But your description of massa is just blatantly not true at all. Massa is a great guy and was a great driver. I’m just saying based on all the actual facts, massa if all the rules were followed should be the 2008 world champion since Singapore shouldn’t have counted. But yes it would be ridiculous to retroactively change the result years later. I’d also add it’s kind of irrelevant these stats and titles. It doesn’t reflect the quality of driver necessarily. We all know Hamilton is better than massa, watching the 2021 season it was clear all year long max was the better driver than lewis. Looking at Fernando and lewis, lewis has more titles, but even Hamilton fams(honest ones) admit Fernando is just as talented as lewis despite not having anywhere near the amount of wins and titles. So idk to me the stats and titles really are meaningless. All it demonstrates is that the driver that year had the best car and beat his teammate. That’s literally it.

[@broncobalboa]

yall really weird talking without apparently having researched. massa has always been nothing but graceful about it all. but only NOW it came out that they knew within the 2008 season, therefore that race shouldnt have counted. i dont get what yall talking about everyone objecting then. there is only one race that we know of that has been without a doubt manipulated and that was 2008!

[@MarJov]

I don't think the title and championship should be in trouble. The same as not stripping away Verstappen's title because of RB's overspending, or multiple problems with Michael Schumacher in the past.

[@Gm_Boards]

If that is accepted then Hamilton's 2021 season and red bulls over budget

[@soulreaverlp]

Following that logic, Michael Schumacher and Ferrari robbed Kimi/Montoya of the drivers' championship in 2003. 🤷🏻

[@enopio_O]

I feel like WTF1 is getting on track now. Their own track👏

[@SilverScarletSpider]

it should be overturned. Ferarri needs a win rn.

[@ferglesnerk]

It's not Felipe, it's his father, Louis who is dragging all this up. Edit: In the highly unlikely event this happens, Damon Hill would be 1994 World Champion.

[@DimitriMoreira]

And Hamilton will be the 2021 co-champion with Max. Right? Now what? Senna will come back from the grave to claim the 1989 title too? Don't get people started. This is exactly the BS the video is warning people about.

[@runninginthe90s75]

Honestly they need also to look at Alonso because this guy is participate in the biggest and nastiest scandal in motorsports history. Typical Alonso always playing victim to makes people believe that he is "good" guy who are just "unlucky" to be involved in this BS which makes me really hate F1 community for being this stupid!!!

[@runninginthe90s75]

@Dave Lets be honest Damon Loser Hill won't even won 1994, this guy is sore loser for not accepting that young Michael destroyed him entirely.

[@ferglesnerk]

@@runninginthe90s75 Huh? What does the term "won't even won " mean?

[@danbruno5945]

Surley Abu Dhabi 2021 was much more serious as the Race director broke the rules and allowed only selected cars to unlap between Max and Lewis after Redbull radio and then went RACING on the SAME lap the safety car came in

[@ajfreshkid]

Doesn't make sense to involve any other team but Renault. Invalidate their points and Alonso's win which means every one else gains a position and it's still the same outcome with Lewis being ahead

[@michaelp4122]

For the same reason Schumacher was disqualified in 1997, this race should have been DSQ as well. You cannot manufacture a race, and even if Lewis benefitted by chance, this race was manufactured.

[@gemparaiso8408]

If this gets overturned, Lewis would have to overturn the 2021 season finale to still be a 7 time world champion and chase his 8th

[@mkooij]

Nope. 2021 wasn't his in any way

[@danielsgrunge]

@@mkooij 12 seconds ahead

[@mkooij]

@@danielsgrunge safety car cancels the distances. It's in every single race

[@danielsgrunge]

@@mkooij safety car also allows every lapped driver to unlap themselves, happened at every race but one, guess which one…

[@mkooij]

@@danielsgrunge yep. Masi fucked up by waiting to lap the cars. That was his huge mistake. He should have lapped them asap but je waited waaay too long. If he lapped them all max would still be champion

[@dizoddish493]

I do believe Massa deserves the title but ultimately Ferrari made that massive mistake during the pits which realistically destroyed any chance he had at winning the championship.

[@constantineibner8888]

I think that the whole 2008 singapore gp result should be deleted out of the final standings of the season

[@inspiredglue2056]

That was 15 years ago. Hell no it shouldn't be changed now

[@Besitzerstolz]

​@@inspiredglue2056 so people should lie instead of going after fair results, because years later things shouldn't be made right? And therefore the actions becone accepted/legal?

[@Nexus1x]

Nah, just DSQ the team/driver who caused it. Just like when they DSQ mclaren in 2007 and Schumacher in 1997. Voiding a whole race has never been done before and makes no sense

[@inspiredglue2056]

@@Nexus1x Then it would be Renault taken out of the championship, not Lewis I hope.

[@inspiredglue2056]

It would tarnish a great finale and season

[@CavalierRoy]

Crash gate had nothing to do with Massa, Ferrari pitted and the fuel hose wouldn't come off. This had happened to team up and down the pitlane over the years. So no i can't see this been taken seriously simply put Ferrari responded to what happened and pitted to keep track position on anyone else who pitted and maybe have an advantage on those who didn't. If anything the spring coming off Barrichello's car would be taken much more seriously than this simple error with a fuel hose and the cost it had on Massa's chances in the race and the impact it had on his championship chances.

[@davidmanning1474]

That 8th title is looking further away than ever

[@FeaturesGaming]

Lewis would still have 7 then if this ever happened as the Abu Dhabi 2021 results will be overturned too, as the FIA broke their own rules!

[@Mcfly_013]

I’m Brazilian and that almost-title left a scar on a generation that stoped caring about F1 and the worst, stoped producing talents who were good enough to be spearheading the competition, like Massa. It is impossible to go back in time but, having that spark of hope restored on the Brazilian fans would be crazy good for the sport here in our country specially considering that with the whole cash is king vibe, it could spark some interest in Brazilian companies to go back t heavily sponsoring great drivers like Drugovich to come back strong into the competition. It’s sad that the impact of crashgate was this huge here, we’re great drivers 😂

[@cuckmasterflex9106]

I wish Hamilton was never born

[@valenesco45]

​@@cuckmasterflex9106 cringe

[@jazzrockr]

The good or bad of crashgate was that it exposed to people what many suspected, there was a 'rigging' process that happened that denied them of some legitimate thrills and spills on merit. The problem is that was necessitated by the stakes of the constructors' championship and what teams felt their tactics needed to be. For Ferrari, there really were team orders where the other driver had to defer to him. A lot of radio these days may have stopped it (but Schumi may have also been more publicly diplomatic than someone like Max Verstappen is). But it's not necessary for one big country's sponsors to sponsor an F1 driver or scene, especially since it's probably far better at home to incubate and keep going the domestic competitions and industries. Brazil knows this, as does the United States.

[@fry8h]

This is why Michael Schumacher is the GOAT

[@Jay-nk6dm]

Then lewis should sue for the bmw and williams cheating in the 2007 brazilian gp with fuel temperatures and he would win 2007. he should also sue in for jeddah 2021 brake check not resulting in a race ban, which wouldve led to him being champion

[@ccramit]

The guy just wants answers, which I can understand. I don't think he expects anything to change.

[@Slipstream_merchant]

If the Singapore GP is voided then the FIA need to give Lewis his Spa 2008 win back.

[@misfortuneteller24]

We can't prove if he would have still driven off with the fuel hose though. That could've still happened if crash gate never happened.

[@markvanderpork]

The results of this race should’ve been nullified. But there no way to overturn the title ownership at this point.

[@ljupkajurisik4982]

How is lewis at fault that ferrari was doing ferrari things by leaving the hose on. I don't understand Massa' motives but I guess it's his life but idk tho seems kinda strange to go after a title that was 15 years ago.

[@ELSpaceAgency]

Well, if they are taking his first away, then under the same premises, Hamilton should get 2021. No angry comments pls it’s a fair idea

[@metrofilmer8894]

Agree. Similarly, Senna should get 1989 under the same idea

[@user-pz9xo7tn3x]

Nope. If Abu Dhabi gets nullified Verstappen would still be the 2021 Champion.

[@iazy47]

Ah yes team LH still can't move on from abu Dhabi 2021

[@metrofilmer8894]

@@iazy47 considering how many people are stuck in 2008. Talking about something that happened less than 2 years ago isn’t nearly as bad

[@ishqiahmed4315]

@@iazy47 people are stuck from 15 years ago i consider that worse

[@Owenjf]

You can't retrospectively change the result of a race that occurred mid season then act like the remainder of the season would have played out exactly the same. Ultimately, Ferrari still ruined their own race. The only outcome Massa would achieve with this is for Fernando to be stripped of the win. Nothing more

[@Blank-bq3wi]

its so easy to say "if he didnt crash, i would have more points" - but we dont know if the events would have played out the exact same. The entire tone for the rest of the race would have likely been different, the tone going into brazil would have been different. Everything thats happened cant change and its not possible to predict outcomes when changing variables like this. Thats why I think this will not be a successful attempt. Not to add how many people benefited, and they werent direct benefactors. It would also change constructers orders - and not to mention they would be punished for something that was completely out of control.

[@KlavarRecordings]

That’s the same as saying we don’t know if Lewis would have got a puncture being on those tires so long in the last race of 21. If he was pushing on them he could have gained a puncture

[@Blank-bq3wi]

@@KlavarRecordings proving my point exactly. We wouldnt know any outcomes and making predictions like this is dumb, purely because no 2 events would play out the same

[@zeusricochant7357]

I can't believe I've been watching F1 this long. I remember watching that race

[@sunflowersofinferno7904]

I know the people who want the Hamilton fans to move on from 2021, desperately want the 2008 result to be overturned 😉

[@inspiredglue2056]

yup. so hypocritical

[@siddhantpatil292]

Yes we are

[@Gl-my8fw]

Not really but they arent related in any way.

[@digitalT83]

LH robbed

[@antheusmain]

No we don't really. I've been a non biased watcher of this sport for some years now and I've analyzed hundreds of races and nearly all seasons. It's really not that difficult to move on from a controversy. Everyone moved on from Crashgate after like five years, and Crashgate was huge. However, avid Hamilton fans do nag about Abu Dhabi 2021 a lot still, and the atmosphere it has created is pretty uncomfortable. Alas, it will completely amaze me if they do actually revert the 2008 season, and still leave 2021 as it is, because from my un biased point of view, Hamilton did deserve that Abu Dhabi win, which would have given him his eight, although i would say Max proved better throughout the season. Then agin though, on the legal aspect, Abu Dhabi was listed as a "human error" kind of thing when Crashgate was deliberate. I don't think they will revert the 2008 season as it'd create utter chaos. 1989, 1990, 1994 are examples of results being reverted as well.

[@gibson_az]

Hamilton-Verstappen Abu Dhabi 2021, Schumacher-Hill Australia 1994, Prost-Senna Japan 1989

[@theracingban]

Damon hill and many other champs who were supposed to win are smiling

[@srxt6758]

Damon Hill in 1994? He was lucky he even competed. Did you even watch that year. Damon was laped in Brazil by both Senna and MSC. I think Damon got plenty of gifts that year. MSC was disqualified for the stupidest reasons because he was walking the title after Senna death and Fia wanted interesting title fight. You know how 1994 ends without MSC penalties? The same way 1995 ends. Whitewash by MSC. Countback the races where Damon genuinely outraced Michael its an easy task theres not many of them. Theres a reason 94 isn't touched because the right man won.

[@greyshepherd3456]

Still trying to figure out how Alonso got away with that Singapore win.

[@DimitriMoreira]

Let's all remember something: Alonso knew all of the shenanigans, as Briatore told it at the time. Just like Alonso knew about Spygate but didn't say anything while it benefited him. Alonso's really a chad.

[@denzel9086]

Alonso is a snitch and a police boy... and where I'm from that means deletion from the earth

[@sumandeepkaur2283]

Can you please turn the music down a little bit. I enjoy the music but it is kinda hard to hear the dialogue.

[@uap24]

People still stuck in 2008 lol.

[@prozoomy]

2008 and 2021..

[@davids3539]

The only time you could realistically overturn a race result after the championship is over is if it's the last race. Subsequent races will have been run with different strategies depending on if they needed to catch up points, or maintain a lead. For example, if Hamilton knows in advance he needed an extra 6 points across the last 3 races, he's going to drive differently. Alternatively, DQ Alonso, and promote everyone one place in Singapore. That results in Hamilton winning the title by 3 points.

[@souffleigh]

imagine the field day toto would have if massa wins and actually sets a precedent

[@Ruylopez778]

This is nothing like 2021. In 2021, all teams had a pre-race agreement to avoid ending under SC if possible. And all teams were informed before the race a late red flag restart would not be likely in the event of an incident. This is because Wolff made a big issue about expecting Verstappen to crash out Hamilton - part of their narrative about being the victims. In 2008, the race result was affected by race fixing, and this was acknowledged by the FIA and F1 with their punishment of Renault and Briatore. There's no way to prove that the decisions in 2021 were made to harm Hamilton's chances, since the point at which the pitlane opened and cars were on track is impossible to coordinate with any accuracy, and Mercedes chose to keep track position instead of pitting. The only fair outcome is to void the result, meaning Verstappen is still champion. And if you want to get pedantic, Hamilton won the first race in Bahrain by Masi changing track limits mid race, where he admitted 'one car' had gained an advantage - so Hamilton's win could be taken away or the result voided.

[@danielmon3045]

Wether they leave it as it is or they change them it will always be unfair for someone, but the ones who really messed up where the ferrari pit crew in that pit stop that day

[@kholomokolo]

If they allowed that, there'd be a big 2021 elephant in the room

[@lhgr21]

I support this. There is a difference between crashing your opponent or having the direction of the race doing a bad decision and flat out cheating in order to change the results of the race. There has been nothing like crash gate in F1 history. That the F1 and FIA president knew of the whole thing only adds it to the problem. Things like this have happened on other sports. Juventus lost a lot of championships because they cheated, Lance Armstrong the same, and those happened years later. All of that being said, Lewis did not do anything wrong, so I think they should go back and award a double championship for 2008. I think that everyone in Felipe's position would do the same.

[@ishqiahmed4315]

the thing is, if it has nothing to do with the drivers or teams, especially if they are not involved in how the championship was played out, then you cant change the standings, cause if Singapore had changed, there is no guarantee that Massa wouldve won anyways, remember the quote about if you do as much as move a chair in a different direction, it changes everything

[@brucejunior1813]

You say it like there were 45 thousand pilots with reasons to legally challenge championship results for this overturn precedent to be such a huge inconvenience

[@Jamo_7811]

This would set off a chain reaction where other controversial Championship deciders will be attempted to try to have overturned. In that case Can we overturn 89 as well?

[@Iamtheilluminati]

90, 94, 21 come into mind

[@Jamo_7811]

@@Iamtheilluminati 97 as well. A very controversial finale.

[@vasudev_hk]

​@@Jamo_7811 But 97 was handled very well. The FIA learnt from 94 and punished Scumacher for trying to take Villeneuve out.

[@KlavarRecordings]

There can’t be that many to sort of the person isn’t alive and able to make a claim. 2021 result wouldn’t change because removing the last race results in max wining still

[@Jamo_7811]

@@KlavarRecordings the fia could void lap 58 if they think it’s a breach in protocol. Then go back to the classification on lap 57 with Lewis winning.

[@ayoutubechannel7143]

Can't punish mclaren drivers for something renault did. This just stinks of sour grapes from Massa

[@robdavies82]

I think for the newer F1 fans, they maybe don’t realise the context of where F1 was in 2008 and why this scandal was hushed. F1 was losing TV viewers following the dominance of Ferrari, and then after Schumacher retired the interest in Germany dropped off. The sport was constantly being labelled as “boring” and it was only core fans tuning in each week. F1 had also just been rocked by another scandal - the espionage scandal where Mcalren had gained sensitive Ferrari data and received a huge fine. F1 didn’t need another scandal. Bernie knew that Hamilton was the answer to F1. He was British, and considered to be the bright future the sport needed. Him winning on F1 was already tickling the British media and all of a sudden, viewers were tuning in again. The 2008 season was a great season, and the last thing Bernie wanted was for a scandal like this to upset a lot of people, hence why he made sure the Piquets never made it public. Obviously in 2009, Renault sacked NP and he threw the grenade into the mix and all bloody hell broke loose. I think in context of why this was covered up, you can see why this was a very dark event for the sport, and those in a position of power were pulling the strings to keep F1 popular and avoid something that could have torn it apart.

[@DimitriMoreira]

Man, come on. F1 wasn't labelled as boring. It was. So many Ferrari benefits and perks, no other team could compete. Also there were no goddamn overtakes anywhere! Only pitstop overtakes! Shameful. That's exactly why the sport was losing big time even despite all of the fame and praise from that era.

[@so.kki_]

If they overturn Lewis win i am pretty much sure there are going to be more problems and everyone claiming to revoke more drivers championships. Doing this all after 15 years later in another level of madness

[@wolfgamingnetwork3542]

So fia refuses to fix their cover up they made 15 years ago

[@birandkoray]

No matter the result, Massa has to fight

[@cristiansantos3923]

If that were the case the same should be done for the 2021 drivers championship

[@tommywilson2984]

max would still be champion on countback

[@ranvabhagas8785]

cant make a difference tho, deleting the abu dhabi 2021 race, would still make max win the title

[@Gl-my8fw]

Lol nit how that would work out.

[@iazy47]

Team lh for sure

[@JaydanPuriel]

Yeah no Max would stil be the champion or haven’t you watched the whole season

[@marsbarz1648]

If this actually happens then surely Lewis can complain about the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix ?

[@BritishBeeMan]

No chance they would change it. Otherwise they'd have to over turn a lot. Including Max's 1st title. Which we know they won't do.

[@lukasgarage956]

Why should they......because Mercedes didn't pit Hamilton, they literally had 2 chances to pit.

[@Marrrrrko47]

@@lukasgarage956 Mercedes couldnt put him because they didnt know whether the race will continue or end under sc Still it doesnt mean lewis deserves the title, they were just unlucky I havent watched the 2021 season(unfortunately) so correct me if im wrong

[@mrswagtastic3276]

@@Marrrrrko47 NO lewis was not just unlucky my friend. Per the rule book the race should have ended under safety car making him champion merc didn't pit him because they were following the rules. Also only allowing the cars between max and lewis unlap themselves were against the rule. It was one of the biggest robberies in sports history the fact that the season was so good and ended like that is such a shame. I mean the fact that massi got fired and given a gag order tells you all you need to know.

[@kemalkaya8745]

@@lukasgarage956 You are simply an idiot if you actually believe mercedes should have boxed. They would have came out second and lost the championship. They just didn't expect FIA to break their own rules!

[@srxt6758]

​@@lukasgarage956 no worries m8. If they cancel the results of AB 2021 Max is still the champ by having more wins than Lewis. 10 to 7 in fact. Makes you wonder who was the worthy champ that year when even with more wins he is tied on points and not by his own fault... Hamilton was lucky he even came this close.

[@kyleolson8977]

In other news, the late Thomas Dewey is challenging the results of the 1948 US Presidential Election.

[@Jack.F1]

If the 2008 title get overturned to Massa then the 2021 should get overturned to Lewis from max. There’s no chance of this happening in my personal opinion and if he was really butt hurt why didn’t he not do it sooner

[@AZBCDE]

No 2021 should stand because it was already appealed unlike crashgate you clown. Also crashgate was caused by a deliberate crash unlike 2021 which was a accidental crash You’re a clown fanboy

[@srxt6758]

2021 still ends up with Max as a champion tho. Massa is fighting for a Singapore 2008 overturn. Aka he wants the race to be forgoten and results of it whipped to be classified as a irregular race. It results in him winning the title by 3 pts since Hamilton loses 4pts from his 3rd place. If you do that to Abu Dhabi and wipe out results of it Max and Lewis are on equal points but Max wins by simply having more wins (10 to 7). Lewis cannot win the 2021 championship. You cannot just wipe out a season. You can classify the race irregular but thats pretty much it. Massa has a shot Lewis doesnt. Does it matter tho Max was absolutely the better driver of the two in 2021 and Lewis wasnt exactly fault free.

[@sergiucapusan3120]

@@srxt6758 this.

[@casflowed9611]

It’s to long ago you can’t remove a championship from 15 years ago what’s done is done… if they do that then they will have to review multiple years to keep it consistent

[@ΜαρινάκηςΣαλόνικαΘ7]

I REALLY hope he takes it. JUSTICE for Massa

[@Cleveritalian]

For the good of the sport, Hamilton's Championship should not be over turned. And I mean the good of motor racing as a whole. Think about it.

[@marcusstrymon693]

Ok but in 07 the williams and bmws ran illegal fuel temp in brazil which as well wpuld lead to another hamilton title. The fia knew about that as well and did bot do anything

[@gallahant]

Ok but in 07 both Hamilton and Alonso were competing with an illegal car, and they were ALLOWED to keep their points!

[@marcusstrymon693]

@@gallahant True! But that was agreed mid season on Which agreed, was disgraceful and they should have been stripped But dont forget that nobody told ferrari to fuck up the pitstop in singapore

[@srxt6758]

​@@marcusstrymon693 Kimi still wins. Mclaren had an illegal copied car. Nothing will be done. The only thing that will change is opinions of fans about this sport. Rigged to the core as suspected. Bernies suspicious comments about 2008 title then knowing Merc got blueprints before anyone amidst 2014 season and hybrid change. You wonder if they meet up in a room and decide future champions on paper...

[@gallahant]

@@marcusstrymon693 I am not talking about Ferrari messing their pit-stop. That was on them 100%. Massa did nothing wrong there. I was referring to your comment about Hamilton getting the 07 title, which would have been utterly unfair in that car. To top it off, who can disprove that they did not gain knwoledge that then was applied in the 08 McLaren car?

[@JS-te2vj]

I felt so sorry for Massa that year, yet was so elated by Lewis' dramatic championship. I'd be happy for Massa's redemption, but I'd also feel a bit weird if Hamilton's title becomes no more😅 Why Bernie had to break this...

[@ashstunes6642]

Max fan here: If 2021 doesn’t go to Lewis, 2008 shouldn’t go to Massa. FIA can’t contradict themselves and drivers shouldn’t be punished for things off the track they weren’t responsible for

[@slartibartfast2649]

Rather different circumstances. In 2008 there is conclusive evidence that management were aware of the crash being faked. If a similar thing is demonstrably true in 2021, I think they should be treated equally. At the end of the day it is just a sport. Everyone needs to drop this 15 year-old squabble.

[@EmaadAkhtar7]

It SHOULDN'T be overturn as hamilton has nothing to do with it therefore u shouldn't take his championship away.

[@louisbeerreviews8964]

You are right

[@sitordan]

3:32 Are you being serious? The man hates Hamilton with a passion. I would think this is reason enough.

[@TinyBearTim]

Senna and Prost And all the people schumi sent to the shadow realm

[@herewegoagain7403]

if that happens, then i want the 2021 protested

[@pooledogg775]

Hamilton can argue he would have raced harder in the following grand Prix.

[@4rdF1Hunny]

Lewis is just a 6 time champion 😂 He’ll never pass the real GOAT, Schumy!

[@AZBCDEE]

Crymacher is a 5 time champion 😂😂😂😂1994 deliberately crashing into others and driving an illegal car with assists since he had a skill issue and 2003 needing FIA to restrict Michelin as to what they can do and completely change their tyre model; ferrari international assistance

[@AZBCDEE]

The vegetable couldn’t even beat Rosberg… not once but three times he got destroyed 🤣

[@Fredhamleclerc]

@@AZBCDEE 😂😂😂so true

[@RaceToGlory11308]

Goatifi is the real GOAT

[@rickmar3981]

@@AZBCDEE the "vegetable" is still WAY better than your favourite driver, who won 6 titles with an illegal car and 1 robbed from Massa. Your arguments are pointless 🤣🤣

[@shubhamawachar]

After reading some comments i feel like there are so many genuine F1 fans out there who know F1 rather than just watching Drive to Survive and keep cursing that one incident

[@MarcosCodas]

Next up, Schumacher's 1994 title that should have been Hill's.

[@swenspreeuw5333]

I would add a rule in f1 that would say. After the last racing car goes over the finish line you have 24 hours to chanche the outcome of the race after that it is how it is and nothing can be chanced

[@KlavarRecordings]

The problem is, it wasn’t revealed until 2009 and then revealed in 2023 that they did know in 2008 but hushed it up

[@swenspreeuw5333]

@@KlavarRecordings o yea im not saying the didnt f up. But you cant change an outcome of a race that long ago. So i would say put in the rule book no chanche after 24 hours after the finish so that you could never chance the outcome. Even if the reason would be completly just. Because then you can just let it rest

[@HyaghoMiranda]

"Well well well...how the turn tables" But for real now...felipe move on cmon! I'm brazilian btw!

[@charlesjmouse]

No... Do I feel sorry for Massa? Yes, at the moment. Was the championship already awarded? Yes. Done is done. Can you imagine the Pandora's box that would be opened if the 2008, the 2008 championship result was retroactively changed?

[@Boostlagg]

I wouldn’t say it’s the first championship taken away from him…

[@amin7581]

I hope no one attacks you for saying this.

[@Arroganto]

the backround music isnt it mate

[@vinhsanity]

Imagine the lawsuit Lewis/Merc would have with the 2021 finish over application of rules that had him losing to Max if Massa won this lawsuit.

[@IllusArt]

Exactly...To even bring this up is pure rubbish.

[@Querientje]

No lawyer can win 21 lawsuit you cant prove something that didnt happen hamilton never won the last race the best a judge can do is delete the whole race wich results in verstappen champion same points but more wins