How Loud Should My Drums Be? And Other Unanswerable Questions

In which I share perhaps the most important mixing advice so far: how to get your mixes "more dynamic", when you're already being very apring with compression? How to approach a mix with a method? And of course, how loud should your drums be?
Music is "Impostor Syndrome" from my album of the same name, available in all the usual places. Bandcamp link:
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[@KisnouMusic]

Thanks Dan for featuring my email, this was very helpful. I hope this can help all the producers out there and Dan, keep up the good work!

[@fabriziof5466]

Great content!!!

[@farley333]

Sir. I love your music for quite a while now. I was literally shocked to see your name in that mail. You're more then OK, trust me.

[@jn2400]

Nice music you have I had to sub.

[@coolscube5062]

nice reply form Mr Worrall.

[@SsgtHolland]

Love your work, Kisnou!

[@nerothos]

Few things make me want to fire up my DAW and play around like Dan Worrall talking about mixing techniques. Love, love, love these videos

[@Erudotic]

You bet it does!

[@Rhuggins]

The fucking best

[@stephenmcfall5652]

@@Rhuggins Agreed

[@soundproductionandadvice]

Yup!

[@dnantis]

SIMPLY AMAZING VIDEOS !

[@RedMeansRecording]

Your emphasis on feeling the mix is a really important one. I think people forget that music is nothing more than actual physical sound hitting our ears, instead abstracting it into some sort of conceptual thing. The feeling is a huge part of how the mix and track make us react. Also, I'm so excited to hear you suggest the drums first mix technique. I've been doing that for a few years and it's great to hear someone like you back it up.

[@_TZEOL]

'music is nothing more than actual physical sound hitting our ears' this! or rather, to be more precise, it's nothing but variance of pressure in our environment (which happens to be mostly air) that push or pull on our eardrum(s), and the waveform we see in our DAW is nothing but a graph of how the diaphragm of our speakers/headphones move in order to generate that variance in pressure! It sounds so obvious when I say it like this, but this single tidbit of knowledge changed my entire view on mixing and producing in general, and made understand why phase is so important - after all, an air molecule can only move in one direction at a time!

[@HazyJ28]

@@_TZEOL understanding the science behind sound is so important for an audio engineer. Everybody thinks they're a musician, producer, rapper, engineer, etc but few people truly have the passion to understand the nuances. Those who are driven by humble curiosity and passion will be the ones to succeed- not those who do it for money and fame. An Audio Engineer is basically a scientist.

[@laurenpinschannels]

the 3d shape of a room is its impulse response because an impulse response is a single-point sonar measurement of a room. phase changes as you move around a room because the phase of the expected reflection pattern changes. if you've never done testing where you snap your fingers repeatedly and slowly move through a room, do it! echolocation is an important skill for audio engineers, I am zero percent kidding

[@cliqueplayofficial3771]

I believe I picked up that technique from you or from an iZotope video with Enrique Gonzalez Müller, the way he put it was to start from ground up, lower frequencies to higher frequencies, but start by mixing your drums (specifically kick and snare) and gradually bring in the instruments and elements that have the lowest frequency emphasis and work your way up. Honestly the first time I did it, it felt so incredibly natural and the mix started giving so much more feeling and groove when listening, it helped me understand and provide the emphasis on low end energy that I didn't understand previously. There are many videos I would recommend to people who want to learn better mixing, MixbusTV has a ton of great videos, Dan Worrall's videos are all great (also teaches great principals but he really covers a lot of the technical aspect of plugins that you don't think of or necessarily see early on in learning), and the "10 Tips for Creating Better Mixes" videos by iZotope, those also provide a good amount of knowledge for mixing when you already understand the basics.

[@laurenpinschannels]

(prompt for passers by: anything else you'd add to give context for future readers?)

[@KingGrio]

Aaah. A Dan Worrall video. One of these times I know I'm not procrastinating on KZbin and am actually learning something.

[@stenlyspa1325]

so well said !!!

[@radiofloyd2359]

It's magical how much just hearing "the drums should be louder than you think" helped.

[@fytakytemusic]

Wonderful point on compression. I believe all the "10 mistakes you should avoid with... (fill in processor here)" tutorials need to be taken with a large grain of salt. They seem to engender fear to the point where you would swear the universe will implode if you compress/eq/reverb etc too much. I've long felt that everyone should be encouraged to do "too much". As you point out, the way to really train your ear to "hear" subtleties is to make them...well, not subtle! I call it "discrimination through exaggeration". Excellent video - thanks!

[@stephenwebley9235]

Thanks for that video. It was great. It is easy scoff at beginners and belittle their insecurities. You treated his questions with great respect and created a video that was informative and entertaining. I’m 10 years into music production and still consider myself a beginner and still have a lot to learn. Well done Mr Worrall.

[@rob550]

Dan, I went and tried what you said on an old mix of mine where i felt the drums weren't as prominent as they should have been. Solo'd up the drums, made sure they were sounding decent, brought the other elements in one by one, found what was masking the drums, added some small eq moves to the tracks to make space, started the project over from the beginning and hit play. Instantly the whole project sounded wider, the drums had power again, and everything just seemed clearer with just about 5 mins of work. Just wanted to drop you a comment and say you and your channel are awesome as well as thanks for the very helpful tip.

[@oskjan1]

That was a damn good video! I've been mixing for about 15-20 years, and despite having sort of got my own techniques and methods down pretty well, I was still enjoying the whole thing as a reminder and to straighten me out. I agreed with every word. That also makes me realize how happy I am that I have basically passed my "mixing rut" that I was stuck in for many years - at times feeling like what Kisnou is describing. When you first start mixing, it's often a totally open playing field without rules. Good work can come out of that! Then, in my case at least, when I started becoming more critical of what I do and analyze the results I went into a years long depression. It felt like nothing I did was good enough. I think this is common, when the mind wakes up and recognizes all the ways you could be better, but your skills and methods aren't evolved enough to get you to where you want to be, yet. I would like to add, too, that when you reach that phase - maybe it's time to start thinking about bumping up the quality of your monitoring and room acoustics. That can definitely hold you back. Anyone can become crazy after 50-100 attempts, where you thought it sounded as it should, only to have your world come crumbling down when you bring the mix out of the room.

[@Peaceforr]

This is soo on point! Basically 2 things that you just can't "bypass" in reaching some representative end product in world of mixing: 1. Experience (in therm of countless listening and referring to other people's work = "knowing when its good enough") 2. Patience, patience, patience... Never quit trying to reach that goal that made you start trying in the first place! Be real and admit yourself that you lack knowledge on "something" important, turn around, rest your ears and when you clear your mind continue on searching the answer what is that "something" you are missing! At some point you will overcome those really stressful times you spent trying and realize that it was never time wasting, it's just process of learning you can do only by yourself! Not easy, but also not impossible... peace to all fellow mixers that can find them self in your comment 😅 (same stuff here)

[@joemarta8221]

Suuuuuper agree on the listening environment. If you think you need a fresh perspective, you can literally give yourself one by switching listening environments. An easy way that stays in workflow is to switch to high quality headphones to check your mix. Especially if you use something like sonarworks or similar which flattens your headphone response. My mixes translate way better when I check em like this

[@prod.bronze]

Thanks for taking the time to type this. Very helpful on my journey.

[@SJM2]

Phone guy needs to get a phone with a built in subwoofer - loads available...

[@NiElsir]

Ridiculously good content, always helpful and insightful. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience here for us all.

[@ixxirecords26]

This video will go down as a legendary piece of educational music creation media. Thank you, Dan.

[@kristianTV1974]

'Chipmunk' Dan sounds like he's on the verge of tears!

[@i_dont_want_to_give_google3742]

My phone is on mute and I can't hear anything at all. Do you know how to mix?

[@xiaoyiyingmusic]

Keep these great videos coming. Your contents are golden. Even better than most professors’ lectures at college level. Thank you!

[@domasj2470]

I was listening to this on mute and I couldn't hear anything at all? Do you know how to mix?

[@MFWhite]

Dan the man with a huge fount of knowledge with an even bigger heart.

[@qasderfful]

Haven't watched yet, left a like regardless. This thumbnail is genuinely very informative.

[@logan0501]

LOLOL "Suck" and "Slapp" on the bell curve 🤣 I have been producing with Logic for 12 years as a (really really fun) hobby and never watched any youtube videos. But I'm tired of suck. I need slapp. Your video here has taught me a LOT, thanks! Subscribed and liked

[@1loveMusic2003]

You can't find the sweat spot without blowing past it. Great video I think you helped more than the writer of the email here. Thanks!

[@almightytreegod]

I’ve always thought that since everything sounds better louder, if you can get a good mix at quieter levels, that’s the goal. I basically just realized I’ve been thinking of the fletcher-Munson curves kind of backward.

[@benjaminmangum]

My way of looking at it is this, mix loud until you don't know where you can improve in broad strokes, then turn it down and listen to what you boosted/cut at high levels(EQ and volume wise). For most people it'll be the about the same, but depending on hearing loss and listening environment you might be pushing the bass to much or the high too little. Then turn it back up and adjust those levels and see if the overall sound improved, turn it back down, repeat until you think that the quiet and loud volumes of your mix both sound good and doesn't take away from either experience. I always think about where people will be listening to the music and how that will impact their perspective on it, if you get it to sound about the same regardless of volume and environment. You did all you could. Hopefully that helps.

[@squelchedotter]

This video actually really helped my cooking, amusingly! How much salt and spices should I add? Indeed, the answer was: more I never realized how much more flavor I could be adding until I decided to find out how much is too much. Thanks Dan :)

[@RyanLafford]

I had to pause and go back a few times because I was mesmerized by your backing track! Beautiful stuff. Incredible video as always, really appreciate you putting your knowledge out there :)

[@poor_impulsive]

Yeah, had me spacing out into the void

[@francolaria]

Amazing! This has got to be, without doubt, the most comprehensive tutorial on the principles of mixing, anywhere on the interweb! Brilliantly scripted, succinct, clear, compelling. Thank you, Dan.

[@Rhekluse]

Kisnou! They are a pretty incredible artist tbh. Their ambient & chilled vibes are cleanly mixed, beautifully composed, and well-balanced imo. It's crazy to think that they feel their music is "weak" or "inconsistent" (even though ambient, orchestral & chilled styles of music "feel" best mixed dynamically). But I suppose we all feel a certain level of uncertainty when we develop further into the more technical aspects of production & mixing. I deeply relate to the asked question being a victim myself of uncertainty with the more technical decision-making during the latter stages of a tracks completion, even after 24 years ITB. Thank you for all you do, Dan.

[@nahometesfay1112]

@@Reguez01 they were using "they" in the singular form

[@mrcmarciniakify]

same here

[@murkish]

Fancy seeing you here buddy

[@Reguez01]

@@murkish hello who you are

[@briancase6180]

What a great video. This is such excellent advice, and it's a dense 19 minutes. It's everything a Dan W video can be: excellent and actionable! Main message: go too far because you can always dial it back a little.... Thanks!

[@daaaMook]

One tip that has helped me tremendously when learning to work quickly… push whatever it is (EQ, compression, reverb, delay, etc) to where you can hear it’s too much, then reduce by 50%, and move on.

[@sergeytsygankov]

I really envy those who are just starting out as mixing engineers these days, such brilliant tutorials that you now have at your fingertips could have saved for some of us years and years of try and error (tears and terror) experience. Thank you, Dan.

[@monkvolcano]

For real… the amount of terrible advice I read on forums in the 00’s is truly staggering.

[@figlermaert]

On the flip side, so May different opinions are out there that can conflict.

[@pittjpb8]

One of the best videos on mixing I’ve ever seen. Love your calm wisdom Dan! This is absolute gold.

[@iAmTheSquidThing]

I'm 99% sure that phone comment was just some good-natured trolling.

[@stereopsis]

As someone who has no idea what they're doing when it comes to mixing and mastering, thanks a lot for these videos! Also, for some reason the audio wave visualization makes me think that Dan is some sort of hyper-intelligent AI that knows everything about mixing and mastering!

[@MotoGreciaMarios]

Honestly, I'm impressed with the quality of the teaching. I'm a teacher myself and I know that knowing your subject is one thing, knowing how to explain it to others is entirely another. You nail both of these Dan.

[@erikcebokli9585]

You share some really good stuff to us and I appreciate you for that. Thank you for doing what some universities would charge a fortune for.

[@Erudotic]

Indeed hé is offering us generous servings of extremely high-class education for us Just for the taking, its fenominal, a superhero of experience And knowledge with a rare talent for sharing it. You may have to attend a score of institutes to have the luck of vinding an teacher that expert añd inspiring

[@cowbless]

That over the top compression tip rings so true for me, because I found a goofy squarified premix render of a part of my track after already finishing it, and I was almost in tears with how certain parts of it felt better than what I actually put effort in. I then added that over the top compressor, bypassed ofc, to my default master chain. What you said about not being able to process tracks one by one in a linear fashion - that reminded me of a problem of hermeneutics circle. The idea that humanitarian studies focus on signs and their meaning. And you can't go into reading a text already knowing what it's about. So it naturally circles between two phases - preconceived understanding of the whole- reading and interpretation of the part in regards to the whole - modifying your understanding of the whole - getting to another part - etc. And that is the only way we can do this, and now that thanks to you I have made this connection, I will not be stuck in one phase, obsessing over my imperfect understanding of the whole, but will start to iterate more. Thank you for your thoughts on this. Your content really helps to systematize knowledge and with being more aware of what I need to work on. Oh and I think that comment at the beginning was a joke..

[@unknown6390]

Can't hear the bass on your phone speakers... gee I wonder why? 😂

[@saxmanash]

This is really helpful to me as well tbh. The first email I mean. I've been stuck in some kind of recent perfection paralysis as I've gone from trying to mix lofi to more cleaner sounds. I've been playing music since around age 7. It took me many years to learn my horn to a reasonable standard (and still learning!) but mixing is a whole other ball game. I feel like I'm grade 1 again in many ways. Ok, maybe grade 3 but you get the gist!

[@BmxTzu101]

Love how you present this information. It took several years to understand it without that level of clarity.

[@tz4601]

Great vid. I think I'm going to score everything in my life on a scale from Suck to Slapp from now on.

[@distorson]

Really good video. I also want to bring up that thought I have that I see myself first as a musician who knows that there are people who are specialized in mixing and mastering. And of course it is important to be able to get my music into the direction where I want it to be but when I'm happy with the arrangement I rather give it to someone to do the mixing and mastering. I don't think that we musicians who produce our own tracks also need to be the engineers. And if we compare our tracks to the once from our favorite artists often those tracks we are listening to have been polished not just by the musician. Lets just keep that in mind and try to focus on the musicality and originality of our music and worry less about the technical details :)

[@MrDanJF]

More graphs should have suck to slapp on the axis 😄

[@mikiodj]

This is the best explanation I've seen about mixing in years and years. As a somewhat seasoned musician/engineer it's refreshing to see such a delicate and reasonable commentary on all the topics discussed in this video. Listening to you validate some of my thoughts gathered during all my years as an artist about mixing has helped me drop a little bit more of my imposter syndrome. Again, thank you for such a beautifully made video and commentary and shoutout to Red Means Recording for recommending your channel.

[@benwinch5338]

Pure gold Dan, thanks! I only wish your videos were around ten years ago. This might be the most information-rich and inspiring 10-odd minutes of mixing advice I’ve yet imbibed, and I’ve imbibed a lot.

[@LucaskrillHC]

I would love a video of Dan Worrall about Soundgoodizer

[@soupiaman]

Extremely helpful advices! Thank you Dan one more time with the inspiration that you are giving us. Even if I know all these things and realising it by myself it helps so much hearing them words from someone else who has a lot of experience. It's the way and the simple explanation that makes the huge difference. Keep on rocking mate and you never know at some day you might be able to play all Vaughan's solos

[@msmoozesful]

C’moooon Dan all this precious lecture….WE WANT TO SEE YOU!!!!!! Your voice is already legend!!! C’mon man!!!! ☺️

[@शिव_सागर]

Thank You Very Much! 🙂🙏

[@MrMapacheco]

the background music felt more like an original film soundtrack this time around! As always a great video 👌

[@lukewehayes]

Thank you for this video! This comes at a valuable time for me. Props to the viewer for writing in and asking these questions.

[@alrecks619]

"I CAN'T HEAR THE BASS ON MY PHONE SPEAKERS" OFC YOU CAN'T, IT'S BECAUSE IT'S THE SIZE OF YOUR LENGTH, WHICH CANNOT REPRODUCE LOW FREQUENCIES! - paraphrasing the Angry Canadian Metal Producer which is also a Reaper guy.

[@AnimusInvidious]

"How loud should drums be" was one of my biggest dilemmas for years. I never had any clue if the drums were too loud... too quiet. My brain could not compute the difference between noise and tonal information. Now i just kinda can tell (most of the time).

[@TommyMarcinek]

Dan, you are the best! Love your videos! I can't tell you how much I have learned from you! THANK YOU!!!!!! Tom

[@tyoung]

Alright, real answer for the no-dynamics fellow. What piqued my interest was the idea that he’s been systematic in his approach to production utilizing eq, comps, etc. You most likely are killing dynamics at the production stage. If you feed shit into pro tools you pretty much get shit out, bar incredibly talented mixers (which I am not), who could recover something. But truly, examine your production phase. Not a glamorous answer but my mixing improved tenfold when I stopped putting a compressor on every sound, high passing everything, imaging… all when I’m producing the music. The idea that he thinks he’s doing everything “right” there tells me he might’ve watched one too many youtube tutorials and is over-cooking off the jump. Also like the new profile picture, Worrall. If you put your videos behind a paywall I’d give in.

[@djliksu6341]

I find this keeps me on target - FIX, FATTEN, FILL OUT, FINESSE, FORGET - repeat until nothing sticks out.

[@siggidori]

But... then there's this... What do people ACTUALLY mean by "dynamic". Chances are that if you haven't been doing this for some time... you actually (might) use the word dynamic when you mean LOUDER. This is something I've noticed quite a few times in conversations with clients and other musicians. Hardly ever are they (more) advanced musicians and/or engineers.

[@vigilantestylez]

Another problem I learned to discard over the years is comparing your own mixes to someone else's. They may be falling into the "louder is better" trap. A friend of mine who was not a musician or an audio engineer at all showed me this problem when we were comparing my old mixes to professional ones. At first mine were considerably louder, and thus I thought my mixes were "better" than a professional mix, until he turned the pro mix "up" louder, to the level of mine, and the differences were night and day. The pro mix was much more balanced, clean, smooth, natural, and punchier than my mixes of that time. That was my first, and lasting lesson of the loudness war. From that point forward, I have stopped fighting the loudness war, and now aim for clean, clear, pristine and punchy mixes. I know that if a person who doesn't have any real music technical knowledge already understands the issues with the loudness war, then I don't have to feel my mixes are subpar because they aren't ultra loud, the public understands this as well, and will be perfectly fine turning up the volume knob if they like the music enough. To me, they are loud enough peaking at 0db. That's for all genres.

[@evanmcgregor3758]

I still think using references are incredibly useful for mixing, but to overcome that loudness problem you speak of, just level match them, so you're only comparing those other aspects apart from the loudness itself. Also, I was confused by your comment about 'loud enough peaking at 0db'... Do some people actually mix/master above 0db??! Am I missing something here? Is this the new thing - digital clipping? I know clipping for tone prior to your final limiting is a thing, but intentionally going above 0db at the final output stage? What's that about?

[@vigilantestylez]

@@evanmcgregor3758 I'm saying peaking at 0db, not smashing up against 0db through the limiter too much.

[@vigilantestylez]

@@evanmcgregor3758 I'm not saying not to use a reference if a client requires it. If they don't, then I think it's better to not use one. Most people nowadays don't mix and master for clarity but for loudness and perceived loudness. Almost any of today's music is useless in my opinion for referencing. Too much addiction to compressors and limiters and then boosting high mids in a feeble attempt to bring back any clarity to the sound after squashing the transients completely away. Makes their music sound like a flat piece of paper. No depth. No good separation of instruments. One could use some modern material for mix referencing but then again these are old school guys who at one time worked on large format analog consoles. Anything from Serban Ghenea or Manny Marroquin would be excellent reference material. Then again pop music is always to very high standards so their mixers need to be very skilled. If someone were doing hip hop music there is literally nobody they can study or use reference material from. They would need to study Dr Dre, Dave Aron, etc for what good quality hip hop music should sound like.

[@sccrash420]

Wow. Outstanding video. This is inspiring for those who are just starting out, to those who just want a review, and to those actually working in the field. Thank you and cheers!

[@farley333]

Are you f**cking kidding me? Kisnou is amazing artist. I love his music. Don't listen to ANY of his self-critique, he's awesome. Damn. Impostor syndrome is real I see.

[@wadebay]

Great stuff, as usual, Dan! Thank you. One other thing that has helped me a lot in my mixes-- and I know you've mentioned this, is swallowing my pride enough to bring reference tracks into my projects, and a/b regularly-- especially as I get closer to a finished mix. Really keeps me from missing the forest for the trees, and gives me added confidence in work. And it also keeps me moving-- not towards unattainable 'perfection', but towards the music I love and want to hear.

[@TheStrade]

Made me cry of relief. Was on a point of resigning. And who is saying it - professional violinist with 30 years of experiance learning mixing for like 2 years... Thanks Dan, feel motivated again.

[@alrecks619]

speaking of compression, i think that the average people's complaint of "overcompression" mostly refers to the abuse of brickwall limiting and bus compression rather than for individual tracks just for the sake of targeting above -6 LUFS, but ofc, there are individual tracks where overcompression can suck, such as acoustic instruments that aren't percussion (could also be just wrong settings to begin with), vocals in softer styles of music, and what have you.

[@bobfrisbee9764]

I don't think I've EVER heard the words "like and subscribe" (or their equivalent) from Dan Worrall.. just sayin'

[@jonathanspackman9290]

Thank you for this video. I really felt like I learnt a lot - or maybe felt like I had permission to try stuff a bit more aggressively

[@elossa]

Everybody can use Loudness Units, expect if you're using Bitwig in Linux. Getting Windows VSTs working there seems like a whole complicated skill set on it's own and there doesn't seem to be a LUFS plugin for Linux. Please someone. Correct me there. I want to be wrong.

[@Hal1oRol]

Thank you for the awesome video(s)! Is it also recommended to do the initial volume balance for i.e. electic guitar only with the raw signal or should I check its sound first with i. E. Line 6 Helix and do the balance right afterwards? In the end it won't probably matter since I'll have to adjust it anyway but is there an approach recommended to start with? Greetings from Austria :)

[@focuspixvideoaudioservices68]

I remember feeling that. I used an La-2a early on (learn to use that) only 2 knobs. Slammed it hard all the time...as far as I could get away with. Listening back I could REALLY hear it. not so much at the time. Recently went to recreate an early demo and I couldn't replicate that guitar, bass etc sound. After moving on from the La-2a I went back to it. wow, great thing....Try that one..

[@urphakeandgey6308]

He mentioned he makes electronic music, but not "EDM," as in typical mainstream dance festival music. As an electronic music producer that doesn't like mainstream EDM myself, this is likely his issue. I too used to avoid compression simply because EDM over-indulged in it. The most popular criticism of modern EDM is that it is "hyper-compressed." Deadmau5 is a popular producer, with a lot of "purist" appeal, that talks incessantly about this. The guy in the email probably thinks "compression" is a dirty word too. He probably dislikes mainstream EDM music and thinks "too much compression" is bad, therefore, doesn't use as much compression as he should. My advice would be to stop thinking about compression like that. Think of it as a part of sound design because it very much is, especially in electronic music.

[@CoolDudeClem]

I just go with this simple rule of thumb: If it sounds good, it is good.

[@Hello-pl2qe]

Sadly I decided to never update my computer or waves plugins for current projects. I will never buy another waves product again. Hopefully by the time I plateau with the hardware and software I currently own I will have money for a better system and better plugins. What are they really offering you with each "update"? From past experience, nothing much except different looks on the plugins.

[@danl9407]

This IS the most interesting and rather useful channel on you tube! For those who want to mix their own tracks/music...

[@jas_bataille]

"I don't want to compete in terms of loudness, I just want to improve my songs in terms of dynamics"... ok, but your tracks are quieter than the competition, right? So, by competing for loudness... you will *also improve your dynamics*... because increasing *perceived loudness* is increasing the dynamics and clarity of your mix. There are two main concepts people need to know by heart in this game : Number one is that gain is a nothing but the electrical signal/noise ratio and NOT the sound pressure level (volume) of a given signal. It exists independently from the sound you hear and that's why VU meters exist. Number two, is that the only only loudness that matters is *perceived loudness*. And you don't get that by turning the level up. You get a better perceived loudness by starting with the best gain-staging possible with the best signal/noise ratio possible, and then, by knowing what frequencies to compress and EQ on each track and on your master. Just like a pro painter add a lot of little touches to come up with something that looks great, so are we doing the same. Only beginners stay on one track and try to correct it and get it "perfect" on it's own. Double it, trash one (parallel compression), put if on the left and bounce, on the right and bounce, and the stereo in the middle... now you got your own "mid-side" thing for free... take any stereo track and control the width, reverb, panning effects any which way you want. The drums should be as loud as what the song requires. If it's an old school jazz band, it ain't no hip-hop or metal drum loudness. You're asking the wrong question :P Lastly, lots of people make music but they forget to *listen*. You only develop a mixing ear by listening to records at a deeper level that most folks thing is doable. High-quality reference equipment will reveal a lot to you and is significantly more important than any "mojo" analogue rack you do NOT need.

[@OrangeNash]

Very difficult to analyse without actually hearing somebodies mixes. Though the real answer is probably just 2 letters: "L2"

[@artysanmobile]

I would suggest one particular addition to Dan’s excellent thoughts on the mix process, particularly as it pertains to instrument levels. Establish a reference control room monitor gain level. This takes a lot of time. Days, weeks, even more, and I am not speaking of an SPL reference specifically, but rather the actual CR monitor pot setting. Work this reference setting out for your room, your ears, your speakers from the aggregate of your mixing work and measurements over many hours. Once you have this ‘Ref’ setting, you can work at other levels when necessary (for detail analysis, scrutiny of noises, party time with the label, etc) then return to ‘Ref’. Why would you want to do this? Your musical judgement of volume is affected to quite a large extent by some psychoacoustic rules, which are really just presumptions your brain makes about how important a certain instrument is and these are subconscious rules. It is almost universally true that the human voice will be everyone’s ‘essential’ sound due to our familiarity with it, our natural curiosity for what a voice is saying as well as our natural annoyance by that voice saying it too loudly. It’s just psychology. You can prove this thesis with an experiment, but you need a reference level to do it best. Mix a verse with your monitoring level at Ref+10, then again at Ref-10. Listen to them both at Ref. If you’re human, the vocal will be noticeably quieter in the Ref+10 than in the Ref-10 mix. When you feel tired, or feel that you may have lost your perspective for some specific mix element, simply returning your CR level to Ref after giving yourself a brief silence can be downright enlightening.

[@chrislee8343]

I think there's a lot to be said here for the benefits of mixing live bands when it comes to developing a method to quickly establish an overall balance and then tweak to "good" without obsessing over anything too much. In live settings, you're under the gun and have to get it 90% of the way there ASAP. When I first moved to a big city and started establishing myself in the business, I would record all the live shows I worked on, and then take the tracks home to practice with. It was very enlightening to hear how stuff sounded different in a live setting versus on my speakers, and work on ways to hone in a good kick compression with the tools I had in a DAW, since I didn't have, say, an X32 or a 40 channel Allen & Heath at home to practice on. I highly recommend anyone interested in mixing music try their hand at live sound, and recording live sets for mixing later.

[@pat2rome]

My answer for "how loud should my drums be?" is "quieter than I've been making them", unfortunately.

[@RLAYY]

Dan Ive been following your videos for a while . Probably more then a few yrs or so . I truly value your video tutorials. I been making music for a few yrs now . But i was off the grid and deleted most of my music on yt & soundcloud for privacy concerns. So now i have to build my following from scratch again . Ive been working on my music and learned so much from just trial & error & ofc your videos as well . Im getting close to about 7-9 tracks that i have yet to release. I know where i stand in terms of what im capable of producing or mixing ect . I have a decent idea of how to start my tracks when to make certain effect choices (eq,comp,reverb,sat ect) my only issue Dan is . ive gained so much confidence. But at times all that would just go right out the window when I dnt have anyone thats a well respected producer/engineer that could provide me with some valuable feedback on some of my tracks . I feel that im just a few more steps away from passing the amateur lvl .a bit of guidance is all that i need Dan Cheers, @RL@Y

[@CNTRRNDM]

Best question to ask Dan Worrall: "Do you know how to mix?"😂😂😂 I mean, duuuuuude! Do your homework!!!😂

[@paulopinheirosc]

What a wonderful video! Thank you very much. Especially for the last part, with the precious tips. When mixing drums my particular battle is with hi-hats. I love the hi-hats sound and really miss it when it's not loud enough to be heard, but often it means it gets too quiet on closed HH and too loud on open HH. If I compress it too much it sounds unnatural. Looking for the right balance is a great challenge for me. And for every mix, the balance is different, because different elements can get in the way.

[@johnsguitarpage4415]

This is the OK Computer of tutorials - rare that someone has both the advanced technical knowledge of a subject and accurate well considered analogies (more philosophy even) - I'm half taking in the knowledge, half admiring the content in equal measure. This should however be the opening video to more behind a paywall - I feel bad for not paying (though I pay youtube, I mean directly) for such content - And I think for advanced beginners this is at the perfect level, a few hours of these behind a paywall adding complexity in the second and third hour - more of this please - and more than happy to renumerate the time spent, as I'm sure would many many others in the advanced beginner stage.

[@ItsWesSmithYo]

@10:16 is money. I always use groups but never spent time flexing the compression and other effects in all directions specifically as an exercise to feel out dynamics, etc…Thanks Dan.

[@mttlsa686]

Hi Dan, i'm from italy. Your conceptual but direct approach to the art of mixing makes your videos one of the best production content on YT. I was thinking about translating and dubbing some of your contents in my language and post them on my channel (it would be my first content i'm not an "active youtuber"). Would you give me the permission to do it if i credit you or do i have to pay i don't know how it works honestly...

[@sheldonsmith9438]

Brilliant...I'm thankful I found this channel...Thank you Dan and Paul Third

[@slayabouts]

"Hi, and welcome back. Before we dive in, I'd just like to take a moment to admire this comment... Isn't that a masterpiece?" Lmao

[@CLaw-tb5gg]

It’s surprising he advises to mix at high volumes. It’s something I try and avoid, as I find that the high volume makes things sound unrealistically good and when I turn it down it becomes evident how bad they actually sound. I try and mix at a volume where I can hear things clearly but not so loud it becomes “exciting”. A boringly moderate volume.

[@Am6-9]

I gotta say, as much as I like the content of a Dan Worrall video, I find the loud background music and the visualization extremely distracting. Well, the visuals you can just look away, but with the background music it is really hard to focus on the words and take them in.

[@thugsixtynine]

Do we still learn out any time? For my opinion, no! I'll be doing my job since the last 16 years, and I still learn new situations and techniques and more and more feeling to get quick the right decision.

[@TraxtasyMedia]

Yep, even when I just listen to music, I analyze all the frequencies for compression, separation etc.

[@Dun3Cat]

Getting to a point in your mixing where you can confidentely set your volume levels is such a overlooked aspect of what it takes to sound "proffesional". I had a period of some years when producing where I would never get satisifed with my levels so i kept turning things down- to the point where I had to compensate with 90db gain on the master track just to hear anything at all 😂.

[@MrNicknayme]

Wow! Complete and utter wissdom!! If there was only to be one youtube video for all levels of engineers, this should be it. Understanding all of it, and being 20-30 years into mixing, I can stand behind it all. Mr. Worrall, you are the man!

[@Jaymetal95]

This is genuinely some of the best mixing advice I've ever come across from a youtube video, or hell in general. Such a breath of fresh air, thank you Dan!

[@mal2ksc]

There's an unstated assumption here that I think should be stated because it is important. The end of the video assumes that someone has more than one project going at the same time. _Everyone probably should,_ even if that's just so you have something relatively easy (like automating faders when you already have a plan in mind) to do after your ears have reached the point where you can no longer tell if something actually sounds _good._ There may not be any of that type of work remaining on the current project, or you haven't gotten that far yet, so having another project to work on is healthy. It's not just getting out of the mental rut. If that's all it was, I'd say "go take a shower, and let yourself sing". It's finding ways to stay nominally "on task" even when you're not at 100% effectiveness, which is often necessary if you're not the one setting the schedule.

[@Pinkybum]

When I was mixing my band's album the 3rd method was exactly the strategy I took. However, I took it a step further. I basically set all the major subgroups to -23 LUFS to start with. Why? Because the major voices in the mix needed to be heard at the same volume level. The rest of the mix was spent tweaking from there for clarity and character using eq, compression, saturation, reverb and delay.

[@filtafacta]

5:26 "It's easier to hear subtle details when turned up loud"? As counter intuitive as it might sound, the reverse seems to be true. Turning the mix up loud is enjoyable and will tell you things that other listening levels cannot, i.e. how the mix sounds loud! But you will find it difficult to hear details. Turn the mix down and you can actually hear much better, including the details. This is why most pro mixers mix at low levels, especially towards the end of the mix. You can hear the balance and the fine details and the small changes that are required at the end of the mix much easier when the listening levels is very low.

[@seaofbeer13]

Discovered this channel a few hours ago and already my songs sound better ! Thank you sir !! bingeing all you vids next.

[@sleepisoptional]

think this is why big desk mixers put saturation on in parallel. can balance em 50-50 or watch the vu and blend in 1db rms or so. always keep a bit of dry. separate faders and meters help

[@atomaalatonal]

whenever i read questions like that, and one can read it very often since the last ten years or more, i am thinking that theres a generation of musicians with a notion of "the right thing" "the correct way" "the best xyz" for making music or art in general. a generation of artists driven by obedient submissive thoughts and behaviour, that there are rules autoamtically leading to success and , what a wild guess, MONEYS and those given rules arent to be touched or questioned. i think thats a generational delusion of a reality driven by capitalist pseudonatural mechanics, a believing system. sure, theres thing you can learn. but for sure not by asking the fundamentally wrong questions, and if you are really havin bad luck, you even ask the wrong persons one by one...

[@brianmac8260]

But if you squeeze toothpaste from the middle, it's pushed to the front and back. And if you squeeze too fast and hard { attack and ratio}, there's toothpaste all over the mirror. The next guy comes along and has to squeeze it from the bottom. Is there a lesson there?

[@ArguZ72]

Cancel all paid mixing subscriptions...this is all you need....that and time to play with your sound :)

[@temmuz9138]

DAN HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT DOING LIVESTREAMS WHERE YOU ANSWER THE QUESTIONERS WHO SUBMIT "SUPERCHATS" (DONATIONS), IT WOULD BE GREAT FOR US TO HAVE DIALOGUE AND FOR YOU EASY $$

[@marianmusic7221]

Dan Worrall, thanks for sharing your knowledge on this great channel. Unfortunately there are more and more youtubers with little to no knoledge, spreading misinformation just for the sake of a few dollars/euro they get from youtube and from the producers of the low quality products they promote on their channels. They only clutter youtube and make it hard to reach good channels like yours.

[@Intimatycal]

Just imagine for a second collab videos between Andrew Scheps and Dan Worrall.

[@TheLeon1032]

Golden advice, mucha preciated, this helps my music life step by step in the right direction, thank you Dan

[@timflatus]

Great background music and flashy graphics. No idea what that guy was talking about over the top of it though. Bit distracting