How Meat Eaters View Themselves As Angels

[@annabellealpar5285]

I was at a wendy's be/c we were on a road trip and I accidentally asked if they fried the fries with the animals instead of saying meat and the Wendy's lady gave me the look of death.

[@bananian]

Do they though?

[@elizamilton26]

@@bananian a lot of restaurants very commonly use animal fat to cook fries instead of oil unfortunately.😑

[@Manvir.]

lmao

[@crowrosive]

This is so true, I was an avid anti-vegan for the longest time ti'll I went through a rough patch where I became really self loathing, it just so happened at that time I also stumbled upon a vegan blogger talking about why meat is cruel. Because I was so positive I was some moral god send at the time I actually listened and considered that whst I was doing might be bad. I went from some morally high meat eater yelling "lol found the vegan" to a full vegan myself. Since id slways considered myself an animal lover i always justified my arguments with vegans as "i know better eating meat is normal" which was rubbish oc. So glad I saw the cruelty for what it is.

[@tryingtobanningmemotherfuc8355]

Boo fuckin hoo 😂😂😂 I gonna hunt some tasty squirrels 😂

[@terrorindu]

@@tryingtobanningmemotherfuc8355 AAAAAAAAAAAA NOOO DONT DO THAT PLAESE STOP YO|U'RE CRAZY NO THIS IS NOT YOU LOOK AT ME

[@LevitatingCastles]

I am seeing some fellow vegans namecalling people who eat meat. That isn't good for any curious omni who stumbles upon this video and reads the comments. Namecalling is creating an echochamber for us, and isolating them. Most vegans were where they were at one point before going vegan, we were not making the connection between food and animal, so let's not forget that.

[@SamiDolls]

Levitating Castles the Vegan Strategist calls this 'vegan amnesia'. People forget that they weren't always vegan and can come across very self righteous and off-putting. That's not helping the animals at all.

[@juniperr6530]

This deserves more likes

[@BobMaster75]

+

[@thalassafischer5211]

Levitating Castles well no because all meat eaters aren't created equally. I started transitioning to vegetarian as a child in middle school, and had been pretty much forced to eat meat by authoritarian parents. Even when I "failed" I put the onus of responsibility on myself, I had a lot of respect for vegans, and I liked PETA even before I was vegan. I'm really nice to those people because they're more like addicts, or just slow learners, and that's how I saw myself, a person who strived to evolve until I had a huge psychological breakthrough where eating animal products became unthinkable. Then there is the level of people who respect vegetarians or vegans, or call themselves flexitarian, or reducetarian, who might whine about PETA being offensive or not being sure vegan diets are healthy, but are generally polite, respectful people who even do things like make vegan food or buy vegan food to share when I or other vegans are around. I am also gracious to these individuals, though I ask them hard questions or evangelize a bit. Next level is the "well that's just your opinion, man" mediocre tools of the establishment, who I tolerate but avoid irl, and may argue with in a restrained manner on line. The next to bottom level is the meat troll or vegan basher, or the wanton, narcissistic "ex vegan because I farted" who I am pretty blatantly rude to online, and whom I believe shock tactics were made for. The bottom is the sociopath, who will have to be coerced by violence or force or law, which is why I approve of ALF burning down factory farms and unethical labs. So don't presume everyone is like you. As if.

[@rotiman]

It may not be good for someone like you but that's what got me to go vegan. Not just name calling, but an accurate description of what i was doing. Some people need to be jolted out of their programming.

[@Clockworkcityofpain]

cognitive dissonance in meat eaters has reached a point where some of them don't even realize that fish are alive or that 'beef' was an actual cow that breathed and ate a few weeks ago

[@xLegendaryPictures]

Camila Stefanie You probably suffer from it too, so dont feel so great about yourself. Everyone suffers from it to some degree. If you didnt, you would be against abortion.

[@Clockworkcityofpain]

Aurel are you seriously comparing getting rid of a zygote with killing someone that was alive? or even worse, do you seriously think a woman has absolutely no right over her body to decide what goes in it? Don't even bother to reply, pro-lifers are usually pro-zygote who do absolutely nothing to help the kids they say they're in to protect.

[@Clockworkcityofpain]

Aurel also, I'm aware that most people suffer from cognitive dissonance. I did in regards to meat for 20 years, but people grow the fuck up and learn. Idek why I even bother in KZbin comments anymore

[@Clockworkcityofpain]

The22726 might be one of the trolls that have bullied me into withdrawing from social media before. I wouldn't be surprised.

[@xLegendaryPictures]

Camila Stefanie Im not comparing it. Im just mentioning the similarity. Its like mentioning both dolphins and mise are animals. Im not comparing the two. Im telling the objective truth, that both are animals. Of course a woman has the right to decide what goes into her body and what doesnt, just not when its life. You dont get to decide what happens with life just because its on your property. People that had slaves suffered from the same kind of cognitive dissonance. Also why misrepresent my position by asking the ridiculous question of women having absolutely no right over their body. Their right is limited. Nothing I said would suggest I believe its non existent. I would help them, if the state didnt take half of what I earn, making me poor. Besides, this has nothing to do with the moral argument of abortion. The consequences are irrelevant. What matters is that the specific process is moral. This again is an attempt to misrepresent my position, trying to make me feel bad about doing the right thing. This is the same behaviour we can observe in meat eaters. They tell you that without us slaughtering them (on our property) they wouldnt get to live. Its emotional manipulation.

[@semmerson30]

Just discovered this channel. Your videos are great. You use legit sources for your argument and cite everything really well! We need more vegans like you.

[@VegAnimation]

Congratulation! You just found a freaking *diamond* among KZbin's vegan channels :)

[@pderitis]

I'm vegan and my channel isn't bad. (yes, shameless plug). :-) :-)

[@semmerson30]

Pamela D. Awesome. Will check it out. We all need to band together as much as we can ☺️☺️

[@pderitis]

Thanks Aki. :-) My channel is all about fashion and lifestyle from a vegan point of view. I know not everyone's interested in that, but I do try and make it welcoming to everyone.

[@MictheVegan]

Thanks Aki, glad you found my channel! Putting sources behind vegan claims is why I started it :)

[@Leigh494]

I love him more and more with every video 😍

[@veg]

What is the difference between a dog and a pig? There is no difference!

[@thePANDEMlC]

I remember when I was first going vegetarian as a teen and my dad, who's a doctor brought up the "Then why do we have canines?". Funny thinking back, incredibly educated in medicine not so much in other areas. We all have the ability to be stupid and wrong, important to know and never let our egos and arrogance get the better of us. Oh and mic, you have very beautiful eyes. Or at least, very well lit ones. :P

[@GsBBoyDan]

"why do we have canines?" Why don't we have claws? Why do gorillas have canines?

[@robotbjorn4952]

thePANDEMlC *"You're 100% right dad! Now go hunt naked, using only your teeth and claws to bring down prey, and eat it raw afterwards".* Personally, I think we might be better equipped to eat fruit.

[@chekhovsgun4554]

thePANDEMlC - I had a doctor in one of my uni classes who made the "plants feel pain" fallacy. i was gobsmacked that an MD would make such a stupid argument.

[@toms8879]

again we evolved ,back then we where stronger, had different jaw, teeth structure...etc. even without tools people can catch many small young animals by hand. selfish ,mussels. hunt away predators and steal their prey. forest fires leave many dead animals for the picking...etc. more sciences coming out that we where alot smarter back then. even chimps using tools to get food. some adaptations that point to meat eating we have different enzymes from carnosinase, chitinase even lactose . why do we have it , and Humans are less adapted to a fruit diet than a omnivorous monkey. some part of the population even lack the enzyme sucrase to digest high sugar fruits.

[@oransjball]

Tom S gotta link ne some stuff man

[@antonlampe2272]

that thought experiment about cognitive dissonance was very good

[@heronponie]

Insomnia high five! Glad I was randomly awake to catch this.

[@tanisham2183]

hahaha same here!

[@jnol784]

Catherine G eyyyy same :D

[@jorgechristophergarzasepul3209]

This reminds me the George Carlin part of monologue “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”

[@alexanderweber603]

It's a bit long of a book title, but I'd vote for: "As this study shows, these recipes are good for you"

[@tineketbsfan]

Yesss! Best one so far!

[@ルビ-k8l]

As this study shows, quote the recipes contained in this book are good for you, link in the description

[@faechan92]

Great video! You should do a video on cognitive dissonance alone, because it's one of the main reasons people continue killing and eating animals.

[@purplehazee13]

fae chan i second this!

[@tranquil87]

Also why they justify human procreation, although it's not as simple as just saying it's cognitive dissonance. It's a set cognitive biases. An important one which Mic didn't bring up is the optimism bias. Mic is unfortunately a victim of it with his views on vegan pro-natalism.

[@faechan92]

Etienne-Emile Antikatastaseis Agreed. There are other reasons why people continue consuming meat, but for me cognitive dissonance is by far the most baffling and disturbing of them all. I wouldn't really try to lump in anti-natalism with being vegan. Those are too totally different ideologies.

[@HopyHop1]

Indeed, what is with this push to try to conflate anti-natalism with animal abuse prevention? I doubt recycling programs would be as widespread as they are today if anti-natalism was earmarked into town glass, paper, and aluminum recycling programs.

[@RAC00NFANGIRL]

fae chan *eats fried chicken* nah never giving up this shit. But good job on agreeing on shaming someone diet. Why don't go up to lion shame him for eating meat. Because this person never giving my meat.

[@NatureReviewsCom]

Call it "Delicious Plants and no shit they have Protein too"

[@FashionFreakii00]

NoLimits 😂😂😂😂

[@thecarrotindustry7521]

And rename cow milk to "Fortified bovine pus beverage" in the name of being accurate and not using misleading labels!

[@Apfelbottich]

I agree with you Mic, just a side note: calling pigs "pork" has actually a historical background. back the 11th century when the normans (from france) came to england, they were the ones in power. this means they were the ones who could afford consuming a lot of meat. "pork" is actually french, so the normans' term for a pig became the term for the meat of a pig, prepared to eat. the rich noble normans didn't have anything to do with the pig as an animal as such. rich people were the ones who first lost their connection and compassion for animals because they did not have to kill them themselves. we can see this in every first world country nowadays, nobody knows where their meat comes from. Most people in modern western society are so "privileged", they just get their packaged, pre-cut meat in a box without being forced to see what they really are consuming.

[@Vid1917]

Call it "Mic. the Chef"

[@segivde3793]

Love this one! Or "Mic. the Vegan Chef" ;)

[@adelaide9174]

or "Mic. the Vegan Chef".

[@FallenAngelofTime]

As an actual chef, I would never call him such. Chef is a title of honor and respect in the culinary world. It's something you earn. It's like calling anyone in the military 'Captain' or some other title. Not right.

[@Vid1917]

***** "Chef" is literally just "Chief" or "Boss" is French or German. Anyone can be a chef even without culinary training. Get over yourself. The title of chef means nothing. The respect and experience through your career is what matters

[@Vid1917]

***** sure, but respectable chefs don't care about titles. They care about the food and the resoect from the work they do, just as with any other respectable profession.

[@Falstaff0809]

“Man is not the rational animal. He’s the rationalizing animal.” - Mark Twain.

[@yabbamita]

Am I the only one that cringes every time I hear roaming millennial's voice..? Very interesting video and topic btw

[@peterkang360]

Oh you're not the only one. I used to think she was kinda attractive, but dang that personality and thinking of hers is really off-putting to say the least

[@HiddenStr3ngth]

No, for some reason i find it uncomfortable to even look at her face haha

[@x_x_6__]

+bandwidthzero I really dislike her and she's super annoying, uses 0 logic in her arguments, but do you seriously have to use the words "cringy" "retarded" and "bitch" to insult her? "Cringy" is starting to be the new top buzzword of 12 year old "internet culture gamer" kids who get kicks of making fun of people online. "Bitch" is just an insult to sexual workers or female dogs. You should not insult retarded people by comparing them to her. I know it might sound stupid, but choose the insults so that they don't have other "casualities" than the insulted, or better yet, don't insult people, argument their actions so well that it speaks for itself. Insulting is usually just a really lazy way of contributing to any conversation.

[@elaroyalprincess]

No, I thought I was! glad it's not so. The amount of followers she gets are the people that hate anyone fighting for anything worthy cause other than self-pleasure and self-condoning attitude.

[@adg8023]

Not just the voice but the immature yet dismissive tone and pattern of speech, she just comes across as very arrogant even though she's dumb as hell. She has subpar intelligence but thinks of herself as having above-average intelligence and all the confidence that comes along with it. That's a bad and unattractive combination, I mean just look at Trump.

[@ericsmith4908]

Roaming millennial's logic "Don't blame the holocaust on Hitler because he didn't actually use his own hands to torture anyone, blame the soldiers"

[@thalassafischer5211]

Asher Scott Roaming Millenial can be classified with near bottom level meat troll/vegan basher. She isn't "ignorant" or trying her best (the people easiest to convince by intellectual arguments are often people already trying their best, or people who are genuinely ignorant) ...she also enables white nationalists. RM has an entire mental framework that is horrifying. She's the sort of people PETA throw red paint on, the one who shocking demonstrations were made for. She is, for all intents and purposes, unconscious and low level, and probably will have to be jostled to even become half awake. People like her deserve to be harassed by vegans with abandon - likely why she hates them, she's one of those people who is an optimum target to "make a public example of" to reach others.

[@thalassafischer5211]

didsheaskaboutme but she's aware and still justified it

[@Pneumarose]

I literally had so many thoughts this week revolving around this topic. The topic did not come up in regards to veganism but a plethora of other morally challenging themes. Great video and such a great example of how veganism can change your perception of everything. It's great to be conscious!

[@AnaLeonor-ub6en]

I met a girl yesterday who said she witnessed a c section at nursing school. They used a laser on the woman's skin afterwards. My Spanish isn't perfect but she compared the smell of the woman's burning flesh to a BBQ grill, how on earth can people still not make the link??

[@heatherh4100]

Ana when I was in high school I was already leaning towards vegetarian food but my mom didn’t support it. We witnessed a really bad car accident and the people inside the car were burned. Their bodies made the entire area smell like that. I told mom, I’m never eating meat again. And I didn’t for a long time until I got pregnant and people said I would miscarry if I didn’t. After I miscarried anyhow I went back vegetarian trying to tackle massive health problems that literally sprang up overnight eating meat. I stayed that way until recently. Being a nurse scares you straight on a lot of things. You watch your patients eat themselves into a grave. I keep making small healthy changes but I know there’s still a long way to go. Now I know I have an issue with dairy but I was eating it anyhow because it’s hard to avoid dairy. Like I didn’t drink dairy or eat ice cream but would eat products including dairy even though it makes me feel almost flu like symptoms. Recently some random barista at Starbucks was arguing nicely with her coworker about veganism. The other worker said “I just can’t give up my dairy and bacon.” The vegan barista replied “you can, you know you should, and you will feel better when you do.” For some reason that rang in my head all day and I found myself finally willing to give up dairy and eggs and finish that slide into veganism. Because I couldn’t justify not doing it. I was consuming products that were cruel and literally were harming me and I was ignoring that for convenience. I think people don’t realize how easy it is to make that switch but our brains are wired against it. Once I made the choice I realized it’s not hard at all.

[@thunderflare59]

Because most of us are not insane. Of course a human being burned is going to smell a bit like animal meat being cooked. How stupid do you have to be for this to surprise you?

[@heatherh4100]

Prince Thunderflare It’s not about being stupid. Cognitive dissonance gets in the way. Logically most people realize that we are animals, but we like to view ourselves as good people. We can’t do that while doing horrible things without having a mental disconnect. Once people are placed in situations where they have to reconcile the facts they cannot live as they did before. You either change or feel guilt. I wasn’t surprised that people smelled like bbq. I was disgusted and it broke through my cognitive dissonance.

[@qtdeshina]

@@heatherh4100 That couple of burning smell anecdotes you mention are so scary! Also sneezing and flu like symptoms when drinking milk is probably have what I have - it's "allergic rhinitis." I found out when I got allergy tested at the doctor when I was around 18.

[@laurentfaurite8660]

@@thunderflare59 Correct, we have both a carbon based structure.

[@tanisham2183]

Excellent video, Mic.! This is a topic that has been on my mind quite a bit lately and the prisoner study you pointed out really put things in perspective. Btw, it's great to watch your channel grow! :-) 101k subscribers! Yay!!

[@borofreak]

Mic, really should have gotten way deeper into the Cognitive Dissonance. It's SUCH a compelling argument if given a closer inspection. You could do a video covering that alone. :)

[@MictheVegan]

BoroFreak oh trust me I will. Great suggestion.

[@borofreak]

Yes! I cannot wait! Cheers!

[@vegn_brit5176]

Looking forward to it!

[@veganastico]

I love how you include yourself in the wrong doing. I think everyone do bad things without even realizing it because we make excuses and convince ourselves that there weren't other options and that "one time doesn't matter".

[@SarahsVeganKitchen]

Hands off my cave bae tho.

[@veganpajamas4211]

Well done

[@ThoseAnnoyingVegans]

Wow, these studies are mind-blowing! What a great application to our attitude toward animals! AND YES! Eating animals WILL be illegal!!! Woot!!! We're so excited about your cookbook! Mic. the Chef?? The Art of Vegan Cooking?? Redbeard's Recipes?? Cookin' with Good Lookin'?? Unicorns are Vegan and You Should Be Too?? Ok. We'll stop.

[@Vanessa-bk4nv]

Those Annoying Vegans Unicorns are Vegan and You Should be too! 😂 I love it! 🦄🌈

[@beckman1248]

Those Annoying Vegans sorry to tell you eating meat will never be illegal. and although the factory meat industry is horrible I promise you don't want us hunters to stop because without us there wont be alot of animals left. i.e Teddy Roosevelt (a hunter) is responsible for most if not all of our national parks still being in tact also buffalo Jones (hunter) one of the men responsible for saving the buffalo.

[@ThoseAnnoyingVegans]

When we talk about meat becoming illegal, we're mostly referring to the mass slaughter of billions of cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, and other livestock. That being said...we DO want hunting to stop. It's true, people CAN hunt and also do great things for animals, but that does not mean their hunting is good for the animals. Hunting has been responsible for the extinction and near extinction of many, many animals, which is why laws change surrounding those animals. People think it's up to them to "balance nature," when we've been unbalancing it for centuries. Hunting is also responsible for many of our social ills. One psychology research paper "has linked personality traits of some people who hunt for sport to a different 'triad' of behaviours, known ominously as the 'dark triad.' This includes narcissism (egotistical admiration of one's own attributes, and a lack of compassion), Machiavellianism (being deceitful, cunning, and manipulative), and psychopathy (lack of remorse or empathy, and prone to impulsive behaviour)."

[@beckman1248]

Those Annoying Vegans true that hunting may have almost led to the extinction of some animals it has also but the driving factor in keeping most of those species alive. and I do unfortunately think it is our job to balance nature because we screwed it up in the first place. I would also agree trophy hunting is a bad thing however that is a very small part of the hunting community most hunt because it is a more natural way to harvest food and also to connect and admire the animals we are hunting.

[@ThoseAnnoyingVegans]

BECKMAN12, it's refreshing to hear a hunter say that not only is trophy hunting bad but also factory farming is bad. You are one of the few exceptions who only eats what you kill (right?), never eating meat at restaurants, eating fast food, or any of that stuff. If everyone who was dead-set on eating meat did it that way, it would certainly be an improvement both for the planet and for the billions of animals who are slaughtered each year as it is. Nevertheless, we don't see hunting as a necessity in modern Western culture. If we want to help mother nature, there are less violent ways to do so. :(

[@davidcr566]

I eat meat, and I don't view myself as an angel nor anything. Just as another animal doing what is necessary to survive. Period.

[@addangel]

You're right, the cognitive dissonance is strong in meat eaters. Whenever there's a facebook post about some rescued puppy or kitten I see people writing "oh that poor animal" or "how can people be so cruel?" and it makes me want to play "spot the hypocrite". People calling themselves animal lovers or animal activists while eating animals is beyond me.

[@cyril4046]

Ada That's because we don't feel the same attachment for an animal that has been our companion for thousands of years and for animals we've simply raised to eat. Do you know a lot of people (vegans maybe) that sleep with a pig ? Are chickens animals one would want to cuddle ? Omnivores make distinctions between species, but vegans do the same thing. Think about the huge hypocrites they are when they call omnivores "murderers" or when they call their diet "cruelty-free" while their food requires to kill billions of insects, earthworms and rodents. Lucky most of those animals are too ugly or too small to deserve vegans' compassion. And above all, they are not in their plates or anywhere they could see. But that doesn't mean they don't suffer when they get poisonned by us.

[@mylesraymond7364]

I know, it's crazy. I've heard of people driving across four states to rescue a dog....then they'll grab a cheeseburger on the way home, totally oblivious to the irony.

[@addangel]

I've actually cuddled lots of chickens when I was little. They were cute and fluffy as newborns. And then they would grow up to be "ugly", so I didn't feel bad about eating them for dinner. Don't you see anything wrong with that mindset? The only reason we see one animal as a companion and another as food is because it's been ingrained into us. We're not born with that distinction. In fact, there are a lot of people who have pigs as pets, and cows are one of my favorite animals. As for the "vegans are hypocrites for killing insects and rodents, so that makes it ok for me to eat meat" argument, I've never really understood that logic. How does caring about earthworms justify killing a cow? Meat eaters try to find fault with vegans, because they can't really find faults with veganism. So if they can prove vegans aren't perfect, that justifies their cruel choices. Does it though? Being vegan is not about being perfect, it's about doing the best you absolutely can and causing the least amount of suffering possible.

[@cyril4046]

Ada "Don't you see anything wrong with that mindset?" Not at all. Chickens happens to be rather cute at the begginning of their lives. That tricks humans into believing they are young members of your species and therefore represent our future (=>www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/why-do-we-find-some-animals-cuter-than-others-a6683076.html). Few people have pigs or chicken as pets. Our pets, in Western countries where veganism mainly exists, are cats and dogs. They have been our companions for thousands of years. Unlike pigs, chickens and cows, cats and dogs can make us human. "As for the "vegans are hypocrites for killing insects and rodents, so that makes it ok for me to eat meat" argument, I've never really understood that logic." You don't seem to understand. This argument doesn't prove that it is morally right to eat meat. What this shows is that it is hypocritical from vegans to say that killing an animal to get something "unnecessary" out of it is immoral while they do the same thing when they condone the killing of billions of animals every year for vegan agriculture. "Meat eaters try to find fault with vegans, because they can't really find faults with veganism." How do you know that ? There is a big inconsistency in veganism that accepts the killing of animals for vegan food but not for meat production. Veganism has never seriously addressed this issue. "Being vegan is not about being perfect, it's about doing the best you absolutely can and causing the least amount of suffering possible." Great, but don't call omnivores hypocrites because they prefer some animals rather than others. Vegans also have their preferences. They don't care about the animals killed for the production of their food but care about cows and pigs. Also, vegans fail to explain why they refuse non-vegan way of "reducing suffering". You could eat grass-fed cows or hunt and thereby only kill a very small amount of animals every year.

[@addangel]

"Unlike pigs, chickens and cows, cats and dogs can make us human." See, this is your bias speaking. Showing mercy and compassion for any animal makes us more human, we're simply used to do it just for cats and dogs. But even this differs culture to culture. Hindus view cows as sacred, and do not consume them, some Chinese people eat cats and dogs etc. My point is that this selective compassion is a social construct. Just because cats and dogs happened to have been our "companions for thousands of years", it doesn't mean their life is more valuable than any others. You stressed a lot the point that vegans also contribute to animals dying, and you're absolutely correct. It's a simple result of living in a modern world and enjoying commodities such as agriculture and electricity. It's highly unrealistic to pretend we're able to live without harming any creature whatsoever. Even if one were to live isolated in the wild and grow their own food, they could still step on a bug one day. This is exactly why veganism focuses on *minimising* our impact. The very definition of veganism given by the Vegan Society is *Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.* So while it's not practical and possible to give up on agriculture, it's entirely practical and possible to buy rice, beans and potatoes instead of meat. And as the Vegan Couple like to say, "veganism is not the most we can do, it's the least we can do". So it's up to every individual to do more: recycle, use paper instead of plastic, bike more instead of driving, buy ethically sourced clothes and not be a mindless consumer in general. There are lots of ways to minimize our negative impact on the planet. Lastly I want to address your last point about "reducing suffering". Yes, eating less animals is definitely a stepping stone and an improvement over the current situation, but the truth is that grass fed cows still have to have their throats slit prior to ending up on someone's plate. It doesn't matter how happy the animal is or how good of a life it has, it still has to die. And for what? The moral aspect is only one reason for not consuming animals. There is also the highly negative effects animal products have on our health and our environment. Red meat is classified as a level 2 carcinogen, dairy is comprised mostly of saturated fat, and heart disease is the leading cause of death in the United States, not to mention the obesity epidemic; methane emissions from cattle are a high contributor to global warming... So what good reason do we have to continue eating animals?

[@Melissa.Garrett]

It scares me when children are surveyed about where their food comes from, and so many of them say “the supermarket”. They genuinely aren’t taught that beef is a cow, ham is a pig, a tin of tuna once swam in the sea (well, not the tin). I honestly believe this is why so many people have grown up with this “cognitive dissonance” thing that is going on concerning food - back when people had to raise and slaughter their own animals, they knew exactly what they were eating. Nowadays a large portion of the younger generations honestly have no idea.

[@jasonhives5896]

I am Vegan. However, hoping for the *greatest violent offender* - namely government - to create ethical legislation is, to put it lightly, *absurd*

[@PassedTime2788]

Jason Hives amen.

[@ironman1233]

Government literally doesn't care about animals every second before this one has evidence of that

[@Trophonix]

Maybe people in prison consider themselves more moral because they're comparing themselves to the other people in the prison whereas people in normal everyday life are comparing themselves to people they interact with (which are usually people they like)

[@carloreilly80]

'I have spent the best years of my life giving people the lighter pleasures, helping them have a good time, and all I get is abuse, the existence of a hunted man' - An Al Capone quote (or at least reported as such). We all have to justify our actions/choices in order for our world to make sense, even if this justification makes little sense. Love the channel Mic, you're convincing me to go vegan, something which i would never have even considered a few weeks ago. Thank you and keep up the great work.

[@rupert909]

How long have you been vegan now?

[@josephineelise3068]

Earlier today I forgot I was vegan, because I go to this roller skating place with ice cream, and I was about to get ice cream, but then I was like 'oh yeah, I'm vegan' but luckily they were awesome and had vegan ice cream!

[@carlykunzik1545]

I thought this guy was you yesterday at Disneyland and then he took a bite out of a burger and I was like nope just kidding 😂

[@coco-tu5uu]

I really want to stop eating animals but my family keeps telling me that it's not good for my health and i'm too young. What should i do ? please help me♥

[@VegAnimation]

Suggestion for your cooking book: 'Cooking Book. The Vegan' by Mic. the Vegan ....Idk lol

[@happyepicpanda]

this video blew my mind. i have been looking for answers on ways to change myself and this video gave me answers i needed, thank you very much!

[@grecogreco4]

Mic I have a question. Could you explain about the "raising meat uses X times more water than growing plants" thing that we often hear about.I want to know what "use water" actually means. Does farming animals or plants use untreated water or tap water ? If they use mostly untreated water, how is that bad for the environment ? Is using untreated water in of itself harmful to the environment ? By the way I really appreciate how you always give clear and logical explanations on vegan issues. Please keep up the good work !

[@ConscientiousOmnivore]

Another great topic and video Mike! Keep 'em coming.

[@billyw6749]

You could call your book "Salvation Through Salivation" Maybe.

[@ShawnaeIngram]

Congrats on 100K Mic! Keep the knowledgeable videos coming.

[@elaroyalprincess]

When you said blaming everyone else for your unethical decisions I thought of Roaming Millenial too! She can complain about ''SJWS'' and feminists all she wants, it's freedom of speech, but she can't excuse herself blaming others as if she didn't know how capitalism works (demand and supply)

[@getuncomfortable9283]

Congrats on 100K Mike!

[@alextapia2107]

Now VEGANISM is having an unstoppable STRONG MOMENTUM !!!

[@peacefulveganrelationshipc4746]

YOU are an angel, Mic! Thanks so much for this and for all you do to educate, inform, and inspire!

[@austinlim01en28]

Hey, Mic the thing that keeps telling us that keeps telling us it's right is called the 'ego'.

[@kaypuppy9296]

Austinlim01en once we let go of ego, we become Supreme~ yeeee~

[@whyareulooking]

I love your channel - always upbeat and energetic and straightforward with the arguments! Thank you!

[@shabutir1820]

You know....your argument doesnt favor you, right? You had a video about how vegans dont preach, and yet here you are randomly preaching about how eating meat is bad based on nothing more than morality. Your agument says that people are basically "stupid" (or ignorant) regadless of diet which means vegans are just as likely to be just as ignorant as a person eating meat. Im not entirely sure what you are trying to argue here, but none of your data has anything to do with meat eaters as you call them (I prefer to call them humans).

[@l.woodward3694]

Shabuti R18 bud...your comment is a pretty good example of cognitive dissonance...perhaps rewatch the video a couple times and let it sink in a bit...good luck

[@shabutir1820]

L. Woodward Your comment is a pretty good example of someone who doesnt understand english. Nice try though. Bud.

[@infiniteworlds5]

Yes! Thank you! The reason vegans don't see this is due to confirmation bias. They will never see it, and it's SO frustrating!

[@shabutir1820]

Infinite Worlds The frustrating part is the discrimination against people with normal diets. I use the word normal because humans have been consuming meat from day 1. I dont care if someone doesnt want to eat meat, just like I dont care if someone wants to worship satan. To each their own, but vegans are as bad as alot of christians when it comes to forcing their ideas onto people.

[@karenmccann8644]

I've been finding all your videos useful and yes the fact that you do your research to back up what you say is fantastic. Love your vids!❤

[@araposkulo]

"People believe they are morally better than others" * whole video saying that meat-eaters are morally inferior than vegans *

[@Ixiah27]

They ate Women and Children back then ?

[@kaylabuckley4503]

This is such an interesting video, I had no idea that studies have even been done on this topic but it definitely puts things into perspective

[@achetohughes5427]

you can call your book why be a meat eater when ...

[@mrsda1]

I totally agree with you as i am now a Vegan and i can see the difference is huge

[@LTAlbertini]

Your vid title made me laugh XD first cookbook title that popped into my head was "Mic's Oil-Free Vegan Delights" lol keep brainstorming...

[@julieh8898]

Whoa this video was epic. Never thought of this argument. Great video

[@alwayshungry6828]

"It's easy being green" title idea.

[@cinnabunn1770]

I had to pause the video to let you know your hair is magical and capturing my heart. Keep being beautiful and amazing.

[@Halvos12]

... If we're no better then animals... then what's the big deal about eating them? I mean animals eat other other all the time so either we are better then them and that's why we eat them or we're the same and we eat them because well animals eat animals.

[@thecarrotindustry7521]

Halvos Biological need. Carnivores and true omnivores have a nutritional need to do so. We don't. We are perfectly fine just eating plants to lower our carbon and harm footprints. Also, we could collectively turn 14 of 15 of our top killers into history.

[@Ixiah27]

No we arent, this Nutjob in the Video is a perfect example what happens to a Brain without any Meat.

[@thekiwiindustry1527]

Congrats on 100k mic

[@adamaj74]

I always like how just about every meatard I argue with on the internet ONLY EVER eats local, pasture feed, lovely raised, etc. etc. etc., meat.

[@EurAsiaNikki]

Same.

[@beckman1248]

adamaj ya I know it's just like every vegan only ever eats from their own gardens because they know that the plants at a store caused animals to die as well. good stuff lol

[@adamaj74]

Found the meatard ^ For vegans, it's not about being perfect, but doing what you can. And by eating plants, LESS sentient life dies OVERALL than on a meat based diet. Nobody is saying insects, mice, etc. don't die during the harvest of plant food, but it's only a fraction of life that dies as a result of an animal based diet. By eating an animal based diet, not only are the animals you eat dying, but also the insects, mice, etc. that live in the areas where all that plant food is harvested to feed all those animals you eat. Not only would the animals you eat not have to die if you gave up animal food, but LESS insects, mice, etc. would die because it takes way more plant food to eat a meat/animal based diet than to just eat the plants. Any way you slice it, less life dies on a vegan diet.

[@beckman1248]

adamaj the way Vegans talk about how they are ethical and how people who eat meat are immoral and murderers you would think that alot of Vegans think they are perfect honestly it is the one thing that annoys the hell out of people about vegans. 90% of Vegans really believe they are superior to everyone else so I was pointing out that Vegans kill too, just hopefully it would help you tone down the ego a bit.

[@adamaj74]

Vegans ARE morally/ethically superior to people that needlessly cause suffering/murder to other sentient beings, or support/contribute to their suffering/murder by paying someone else to do it by purchasing animals products. Would you say that you are morally/ethically superior to a murder or rapist? Would you say you are morally/ethically superior to someone that abuses and kills a dog or cat? There is no difference. You're only conditioned to think so by your upbringing/culture.

[@GenuineComics]

Your content is great! Thanks for doing what you do.

[@soonny002]

You are so right... I'm a murderous criminal. I ate meat yesterday. I feel so bad about myself now I can't function. I'm crippled by guilt and depression. Somebody please help me end my misery. I don't want to be a criminal. Yet all my life (seriously) I've committed such deplorable and heinous crimes against the world by supporting an industry which kills animals. I think whoever eats meat (majority of the population) need to feel the way I do. Gosh, what were we thinking!? We can't feel good about ourselves just because of cognitive dissonance! We should feel bad! All of us should just feel downright miserable for committing these crimes every day!! Otherwise nothing will change! Even though cognitive dissonance probably helped me function in the past (despite eating meat) but I don't need it now (because I don't need to function! Right?) I know doctors who eat meat! How dare they!!? Helping humans on one hand but killing animals on the other?? That's the definition of hypocrisy right there! Alright, I'm going to continue feeling bad for a long time to come. I'm so depressed I can't even work to support myself or my family. My family? They're not important. The animals come first. You were right all along.

[@jvall5879]

soonny002 just say you're not vegan and go

[@dhop86]

Don't know if the cookbook is out yet or if it's even been named, but if it hasn't you should call it 'Mic. Dropping Meals'.

[@sixelasole7917]

What is morality though? If someone goes to prison for let's say, doing drugs. How does that make them less loyal or less trustful. Because another human said so? Doesn't that way of thinking contradict the point you're trying to make :/

[@semmerson30]

Sixela Sole it makes them less loyal and less trustful because they more than likely exploited a lot of people to do so, just as the meat industry exploits animals

[@sixelasole7917]

Aki Motarr Who says they exploited a lot of people? You can get a life sentence for a one time mistake. As you can see because there are meat eaters, human are pretty shitty and judge unfairly.

[@semmerson30]

Sixela Sole Masses and masses of people who have been exploited for one individual including decades of evidence against this person - 99% of the time drug dealing isn't a one off 'mistake' it's a life choice. Ask most meat eaters and they won't go "yeah that one time I ate a burger was a mistake", they'll continue to do it and justify their reasons for exploiting the animal. See the correlation?

[@alextorres990]

Depends on the drugs. If it was weed then fine. But my mom was a meth addict and I wouldn't call her choice to do meth (even though she had kids) moral. Her drug problem ruined our childhood and exposed us to physical, mental, sexual and emotional abuse. Drugs don't just cause damage to the addict, they destroy the people around them as well.

[@ewelinekfraser6729]

By doing drugs you fund a cruel business. We all know about drug cartels in South America, but nobody notices that without the demand for drugs, people there wouldn't suffer as much. I understand your point, but this example is not the best ;D

[@MaynardsSpaceship]

Excellent job focusing on the past self instead of criticizing others in the beginning of the video. 😊

[@EurAsiaNikki]

That was a great tactic. I don't think non-vegans understand that almost all vegans used to eat meat and dairy.

[@pderitis]

I love you Mic. But... I'm so sick of RM's smug face in her smug video. No more plz! :-)

[@EurAsiaNikki]

Same.

[@veganfortheanimals6994]

Good stuff, as always....Thanks, Mikey ! Oh, and congrats on 100K

[@josiah7777]

I have to wake up to work in 6 hours but i guess this is a good excuse

[@aquamarinedream8304]

J saaame

[@69ER509]

J Lucky you. I just got quit my job without meaning to, I guess.

[@justme92able]

This video is just so on point 💚

[@miketanner7682]

Cookbook name "got protein?"

[@EurAsiaNikki]

That's a good one. The more vegans can fight against the "protein deficient" stereotype, the better.

[@tranquil87]

It's an awful title actually. So vague and meaningless. This dude doesn't even need to concern himself with protein, he doesn't lift weights. It goes without saying that he doesn't craft high protein meals, which is what the title would make you expect to find in the book.

[@CAT-2323]

Etienne-Emile Antikatastaseis But he does lift weights... follow his Instagram...

[@indigoquixote2700]

Awesome video Mic!

[@harryrawlings3164]

8 meat eaters disliked this because they know it's true

[@MerkDolf]

Mic, thank you again for such good work.

[@rachelberry2193]

More like "How plant eaters view themselves as angels" instead.

[@kaypuppy9296]

Rachel Berry Angel is love. Superior love~

[@rachelberry2193]

The devil used to be an angel

[@kaypuppy9296]

Rachel Berry All devils are angels, they are part of God's plan to help us evolve and advance in vibration. To give into temptation of evil will only suffer in the long run. All will come to love once again before the Big Crunch of the universe.

[@rachelberry2193]

A vegan who is christian... Worst combination to be lol.

[@rachelberry2193]

Says the vegan who is sitting away at their computer typing not realising where all the parts come from for the computer and the process it takes to put them out on a commercial use and how many animals suffer long and painful deaths in the process. And you surely preach like a christian. I love potatoes to lol.

[@TheGamingBosser]

Will you post the cookbook on your channel when your done?

[@ludd8146]

this is very boring and unoriginal, but why not simply Mic the Vegan Cooks? Bet you thought of that already and rejected it, right? 😉

[@allisonroll9662]

I agree! He has actually done one or two videos in which he gives recipes that are pretty good to be quite honest. I'd be fine with another one of those every once in awhile.

[@katerinagoncalves9092]

Hey! is that an instructable shirt?

[@filliana1215]

Okay. I seriously hope that I'm not the only one realising that every single point he's making is either false, distorted or extremely biased. Mic, you're using every trick in the book, from sophism to plain strawman, confirmation biais. Not only that, but you're trying to go in the morality territory, and that alone is extraordinarily more complex than the point you're making. Anyway, you're preaching to the converted here, so my comment is pretty much useless. - An angelic "meat-eater"

[@zupdurp]

when did he use strawmen and sophism?

[@filliana1215]

zupdurp From the moment he's applying a moral judgement to individuals that eat meat based solely on that fact. From there, he's attacking a stereotype that only exists according to his own belief and values. In a nutshell, he's trying to build a logical argument based on his subjective belief about morality. As morality is not an objective concept outside of religion, it means that none of what he says afterwards is based on any sort of objectivity. Also, the strawman is in the title : meat eaters doesn't constitute a cultural group with common beliefs and/or goals - which means thinking that they think themselves as "angels" is a strawman : this group does not exist to begin with. We could continue for a while discussing morality on a philosophical standpoint but that would be way out of the scope of a KZbin comment.

[@zupdurp]

Filliana Filliana are there not some aspects og morality that can be more objective than others? Like.. how morally subjective is it that murder is wrong..? And when he says "meat eater" i just think he means anyone that eats meat. Just because meat eaters dont recognize themselfs as a group means that the title is invalid. The title doesnt imply that ALL meat eaters view themself this way. the point of the video mainly is to look at how we as humans distance ourself from cruel acts we comit and how this relates to eating meat.

[@zupdurp]

Outer-Rim well, i agree mostly with the video so you could just watch it..

[@filliana1215]

zupdurp As I said, discussing morality is outside the scope of a KZbin discussion. If you believe hunting or eating animal meat is on the same moral level as murder between humans, then we have too much a difference of opinion to discuss the issue further. I believe humans are hunter/gatherers evolutionary-wise, as I believe we are part of the cycle of life. Whatever we eat, we do so by killing living species, be it plants, animals, or insects. The day we die, we literally return to the earth. With that in mind, most people would agree we should bring an end to factory farming, monocultures, and anything that causes a disruption in our ecosystem. But this is very different from saying that vegans are on a higher moral ground because they think their food is suffering-free. In this video, Mic makes a parallel between criminals, cannibalism and "meat-eaters". It doesn't take a genius to realise that this is a very simplistic, naïve and terribly biased point of view. Hence my comment. For instance, I eat meat, pasture-raised whenever I can, and I am still fully aware of that fact. I accept that as part of the human condition. I'm not trying to justify, as I don't feel there is anything to justify - I am accepting myself. Now I can already hear the standard vegan counter- arguments, saying we're not supposed to eat meat, and we're vegetarian at heart. I don't think that's true, and I'm not going to enter a sterile debate about it here, but there are plenty of fascinating scientific material talking about it for the curious. I just wish those stereotype a lot of vegan seem to have about people eating meat would stop. It never helps.

[@rikkiwaterpuppy]

That was a very interesting subject that my boyfriend and I had just been talking about on our morning walk so thanks for that research. I have wondered about this a lot. You are very entertaining and funny to watch. Keep up the good work.

[@hello5609]

Sorry morals aren't based on whether you are a meat eater or not! Everyone has sinned and will stand before a holy God! If you died today, how likely is it that you would go to heaven?

[@rodneybever9583]

hello5609 not likely at all since there is no such place.

[@marmalade4sunrise]

hello5609 It depends on which God you believe in. Jains believe by killing any living creature you perpetuate the karmic cycle of rebirth and misery indefinitely. They've followed a lacto vegetarian or vegan diet for thousands of years and have been called the original vegans (outside of Chinese Buddhist and Taoist monks and nuns). They claim they have been living this lifestyle for millions of years, matching Judeo-Christian claims about being around the longest. Everyone was also vegan in the perfect Garden of Eden before the fall of man and reportedly the new heaven and earth will be vegetarian or vegan. Even ancient Greeks claimed that the world was originally vegetarian or vegan. You're an imbecile.

[@marmalade4sunrise]

Brandished Nail it's not even that. ..what angers me is that they don't know their own Bible or anything about Jewish academic claims about veganism in multiple books of the Torah (Genesis, Isaiah, Daniel) and the historic details that Matthew and Jesus' brother were vegetarian or vegan, and that Jesus may have been vegetarian, since he was an Essene Jew, and many words in the New Testament were mistranslated by the King James version. ..that fish was used instead of sea vegetables, which are similar words (like virgin and young girl). And let's not even get into their ignorance about every other major world religion upholding vegetarianism as a virtue. They are Pauline Christians...the apostle Paul wrote large parts of the New Testament and relaxed food laws because of in fighting towards Romans.

[@hello5609]

I follow a semivegitarian or semi vegan diet. I was just saying morals shouldn't be based on whether one's diet is contributing to the deaths of animals or not.

[@hello5609]

Your replies are interesting though.

[@ToniaHicks]

holy crap. This is amazing. great video. thanks Mic!

[@willzichko440]

more vegan superiority complex. You're not more moral than someone just because you are vegan. and for those who think I'm a meat eater I'm not I'm vegan but seriously do you think this kind of video is gonna help convert people to veganism?

[@mylesraymond7364]

"You're not more moral than someone just because you are vegan" Explain.

[@didsheaskaboutme]

Myles Raymond you're dietary preferences dont make you a saint, there you go explained it for you

[@mylesraymond7364]

Veganism isn't a dietary preference. See, you learned something today.

[@roxanaandreea7117]

Amazing video, you are a great guy and I went fully vegan a month ago because you inspired me to do so and you keep inspiring me over and over again. And for the title of your book, I'd suggest 'Kale Yeah!', 'Grass Bites (no, really)', 'Radishing as usual', 'Just the vegganing' , "Lettuce thrive'

[@xSlappykinkaidx]

I'm sorry but this is a terrible approach to the issue. Now granted, a lot of the tid bits about general psychology are interesting in & of themselves, but using them as part of your narrative that, to me at least, comes across as you claiming that people whom eat meat are by default bad people, & you project your own subjective moral values as though they were universally accepted objective fact. This presumption that the ohpinion that eating meat is a universal fact, meat eaters "know" it's bad, so they engage in cognitive dissonance to "block out" the "totally objectively factual crimes" they commit. Sorry, but all that accomplishes is preaching to the choir of dogmatic cultist minded ideologues while painting yourself as one in the process. Even if I agreed completely with you regarding the morals of eating meat, I'd still be telling you that this mindset you displayed in this video is unhealthy. You presume that eating meat is a universally agreed upon objectively factual evil. No, it's not. It is a purely subjective opinion. The majority of the human race does not believe that eating meat is in any way shape or form wrong. Now we can debate whether your opinion or the majority opinion is right or wrong all day, but even if we both agreed that that the opinion of killing animals for food is the correct one, that does not change the fact that it is our subjective opinion. So to project that subjective opinion as though is was universal objective fact is not only delusional but simply dishonest on many levels. It also makes you appear as though you perceive yourself as the arbiter of morality. Sorry, but no one has given you that authority. You are the arbiter of your OWN moral compass, & that is where that title ends. If you want to have a productive dialogue & actually make progress in winning meat eaters over, with all due respect, You need to come down from that high horse, realize that you, like the rest of us, are in no position to cast judgment on others, & try to have a real, respectful conversation. Otherwise, veganism will remain a tiny microscopic quasi cult community.

[@midorithursday]

xSlappykinkaidx If morality is based on arbitrary, subjective "moral values", then there's no use discussing it at all. But no one says serial killers should be free to continue killing because "maybe they have different moral values." When most people discuss morality, they have something particular in mind, such as "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." And the vast majority of people accept this standard, or something similar. The question then becomes whether we are following that standard, and that's where the debate between vegans and non-vegans usually begins. Vegans claim that supporting animal agriculture by purchasing animal products violates that standard, while non-vegans claim it doesn't, or they just never thought about it. Within the context of a particular rule, eating meat IS objectively right or wrong.

[@xSlappykinkaidx]

I disagree. The difference between serial killers & eating meat is oretty broad. First & foremost, there is a utilitarian motive & component to killing animals for meat consumption. They aren't killed for the sake of killing them, they are killed to produce meat. However, this is more of an aside. The bigger contextual difference is social contracts & rule of law which are created by overwhelming majority opinion. In all reality, if 99.5% of the population was just fine with murder under whatever sets of circumstances, & the laws & social contracts of society did not forbid it, (such as was the case throughout human history even all the way up to present day, such as on the battlefield during a time of war), then yes, that opinion is arguably subjective & arbitrary. Now, full disclosure, I myself am a Christian, so I personally do believe that God is the creator & ultimate arbiter of morality. However, I also am aware that there are many other faiths out there that believe otherwise, including things like atheism which is actually a lack of faith in any deity. This in & of itself illustrates that my own subjective personal opinion on morality is not a universal objective fact. Now does that mean it's false? No, not at all. I personally believe my opinion to be correct, otherwise I would not hold that opinion. However, the fact that it cannot be demonstrated as fact globally, & the fact that there is not a universal or near universal consensus on it bars it from qualifying as objective fact. So for a thought experiment, let's remove the deity / higher power component & address it as though the atheist perspective was correct. If there is no ultimate arbiter of morality other than humanity, then all morality is subjective and arbitrary. & just so there is no confusion, No, I'm not going into the tired old "morality proves God" nonsense that a lot of my Christian peers try to go for. The existence of any God, regardless of which variation of faith you go with, cannot be proven, nor disproven, because the only way to find out if there is an afterlife & a higher power is to die first, which naturally no one can report back from & say "Ok, so here is the deal". Getting back on point, therefore in this context, the merit of a moral position is measured by population consensus, social contracts that are inter-woven throughout society as a result of that consensus & Rule of law, which of course comes forth from those social contracts. & as you astutely pointed out, the core of that consensus is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". The Golden rule. So to simplify, the reason why serial killers are objectively wrong currently is because A, over 99% of the population agrees that murder of another human is wrong, B, that consensus goes hand in hand with societal social contracts supporting it & C, because it goes against the rule of law which expressly forbids murder under penalty of punishment. Therefore, it carries more weight & has more merit. Again, the golden rule. Where I think you drifted off course is, you are addressing this as though you are of the belief that the notion that the golden rule extends to animals is A, a universal consensus & B, that it is part of our current societal social contract. It is not. Even if we presume that 10% of the population agreed eating meat was wrong, (which is 20 times, or 2,000% the size of the vegan community & over 3 times the size of the vegetarian community), it still falls well short of a simple majority, let alone a universal consensus. Most people simply do not agree that the golden rule goes beyond the human species, or believes that some watered down quasi golden rule, (let's call it the tin rule), extends to SOME animals, like house pets. Now like I said before, even if you & I were in full agreement that the majority opinion is wrong, that doesn't change the fact that they have the consensus. Therefore any attempt at arguing moral ultimatums from that minority position are without fail doomed before the first word of the first line of the argument is even started. So I'm sorry, but no, the opinion of eating animals is wrong is subjective & not in the least an objective fact. & again I will remind you, I would be making the same argument even if I was in full agreement with the vegan code of ethics. Just like my opinion that God exists is subjective because there is no objective empirical proof to corroborate my belief. To make the point a bit clearer, here is another thought experiment. Consider, what is the vegan end game, assuming that the whole world went vegan & the meat industry was eliminated. Now since these animals, especially cows & chickens have been selectively bred for centuries to be completely domesticated & have no survival instinct or ability to fend for themselves, what is their future going to be if all the ranchers fling open the gates & say "You're free"? Now at that point, the animals have 1 of 2 fates. Starvation, or being hunted by predatory animals. & since they have no wild instinct left in them, it's only a short matter of time before they become extinct. Now I have heard some vegans say "Well, we would just stop reproducing these animals, process the remaining ones & then just be done with meat." Now if that is the goal, is it not extremely ironic that vegans accuse meat eaters of animal genocide, when the only end game for these animals without the meat industry is ACTUAL genocide of the whole species? Which is more moral with that factored into the context? Raising these domesticated animals but then killing them after a certain age for their meat, or simply abandoning them to die as a species due to starvation, predators or ending their reproduction & killing the last of them? Additionally, how do owners of carnivorous pets feed their pets like dogs & cats? Now yes I know there are vegan dog & cat foods, but even Mic himself said that vegan cat diets aren't really that practical & require a lot of maintenance & close monitoring. Plus, keep in mind, the health of animals tends to be a lot more delicate that that of humans, which dovetails in with my last thought experiment which is food allergies. People with soy, nut & other allergies. I personally know someone whom is allergic to cinnamon, nuts & pretty much all plants in the nightshade family, (which include plant staples like potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant, peppers, many berries, just to name a small few), as well as non nightshade plants that contain solanine, (such as blueberries, Okra, etc...). A vegan diet for her would be completely unsustainable. So what is the morally correct choice here? Should they eat meat for survival or starve to death to save the animals? Which is more valuable? the human lives or the animal lives? Now let's say that we grant the exception to just those with those allergies. How are they supposed to be able to supplement their diet with animal food products if there is not a robust & easily accessible industry to supply meat, dairy & eggs at their grocer? If only that small percentage were the consumers, naturally the laws of supply & demand would pinch off their ability to feed themselves.

[@xSlappykinkaidx]

Now with that in mind, the scientific community is working on growing cloned meat which, once they get it perfected & to a point where they can mass produce it, growing the meat from a single harmless biopsy from the donor animal, the big meat agro business can relatively quickly swap out the slaughterhouses for labs, replace the conventional product with the clone grown product, stock the store shelves with it & the whole problem is solved like that. No more animals being killed, it's beneficial to all parties involved, cuts the meat industries overhead by a ton meaning higher profits while lower cost to the consumer, the environment benefits because less space is needed to house the animals as well as produce their feed & no more animals are harmed in the process. Plus, with the meat industry standing to benefit so much from such technology, as well as the FACT that they OWN the supply chain, it's not like they have to worry about the customer base not liking it. If some customers don't want cloned meat, even if the end product is EXACTLY the same all the way down to it's DNA, then what are they gonna do? go out & hunt their own cattle? Stop eating meat entirely? the former is absurd & the latter is what you guys are advocating for already so that's a win. No, they will initially piss & moan a bit, suck it up & buy the cloned meat for the same reasons why they grumble & piss & moan about the way factory meat is processed as opposed to free range meat, but still by the cheap factory farmed stuff anyway. But we don't hear a PEEP out of the vegan community about that. Why not? It's the most practical, realistic & logical path to ending the suffering of animals that is available, & that is supposed to be their goal right? So why isn't this getting the full throated support of the vegan community? The answer is very simple, & it is EXACTLY why I say that many, if not most vegans tend to become cult like with their zealous ideology. Because it would require supporting meat. Granted, it's meat grown in a petri dish in a lab, from a biopsy that didn't cause any more harm to the animal than drawing blood at the hospital does to us, but it's still meat. & meat is the vegan version of Satan, the anti-christ & Hitler all rolled into one. Therefore any support of anything meat is HERESY, even if it's the best option to reduce if not eliminate animal suffering & reach their alleged goals. Therefore they feel they MUST stick to the narrative that everyone should just stop eating animal products & the 99.5% of the population that isn't willing to comply with the wisdom of veganism are all vile, carnist, murderers, rapist & unclean HEATHENS! Adhering to the dogma of veganism is more important to a large portion of the community than actually thinking outside the box, looking at the big picture & trying to explore options that are pragmatic & realistic. & please, before you say "for most people it's totally realistic to stop eating animals", please spare me. Yes for MOST people, they can do just fine on a vegan diet. CONVINCING them as to WHY they should go vegan though, as well as them actually DOING it, IS unrealistic, considering that in over a century, the movement has only converted 005% of the population. That means that the remaining 95.5% would convert right around 20,017 AD. Halfway to the timeline of the Warhammer 40K mythos. Hopefully the sun doesn't go red dwarf before then. Now I know that got a bit lengthy, but hopefully my position makes more sense now.

[@thalassafischer5211]

xSlappykinkaidx isn't it funny then that every religious text and tradition from Jainism, Buddhism to Christianity (yes, read Genesis, Daniel and Isaiah) in some manner teach the need to refrain from ingesting meat and eggs, and in Jainism, all animal products. The "subjective values" argument is some nihilistic clap-trap fed to you by an empty brain dead capitalist society.

[@xSlappykinkaidx]

+Thalassa Fisher Again, I disagree & I don't think you really understood my argument, For starters, I think Claptrap was rather optimistic all things considered, (Borderlands reference there, sorry couldn't resist. XD). Anyways, if I was arguing that all morality is subjective, therefore there is no true right or wrong, THEN that would be some Nihilistic clap trap. That was not my argument though. Again, morality is established either by a higher power like God, making his standard the litmus test for what is moral & immoral, (which is what I personally believe), or if there is no higher power, it is established by society itself. Now since this isn't a debate over theology, naturally working with the premise that morality comes from society is more relevant to the discussion at hand. So, with that in mind, since society establishes the moral baselines of what is moral & immoral, society at large are the arbiters of what is right & wrong. This arbitration takes the form of universal consensus, social contracts & rule of law. For example, we know that killing another human is wrong because over 99% of society believes it is wrong, the societal social contract says it is wrong & there are laws against it & a judicial system that will punish you if you break those laws. So again, if the standards for what is moral or immoral does not come from a higher power, & therefore comes from society itself, it is those components of universal consensus, social contracts & rule of law that establishes moral baselines as universal objective standards rather than subjective opinion. Now does that mean that moral baselines that don't meet that criteria are wrong or that moral baselines that do are right? Of course not. In the past we have had social contracts & rule of law that justified all kinds of things we would deem immoral now, (such as eugenics, slavery, shit Sharia law deems pedophilia as moral). However since morality is an entirely human construct, (again presuming that it doesn't come from a higher power), then it is humanity as a whole that dictates what is accepted and perceived as moral or immoral. That's not Nihilism, that is just fact. Nihilism would be using that fact to dismiss the validity of collective morality, which is in many ways, the opposite of what I am arguing. Now getting back to the core of what directs moral baselines, which again is the golden rule of "treat others how you wish to be treated", there are definitive objective facts that serve as the root for moral baselines, sure. The primary one being "if it causes harm to anyone, it is wrong". The problem with the vegan narrative is that vegans take the position that this baseline extends beyond humanity to animals. Since 99.5% of the global population does not agree, we cannot logically operate from that perspective. Now do I personally believe that killing animals is immoral if it's not needed? Yeah, I can agree there. However, I also believe that the vegan perspective of "killing animals for meat" is not needed is not correct. I'll revisit this shortly. So here's a thought experiment. I can argue, based on my own moral values that polyamory & sex outside of marriage is immoral. Is it then logical for me to project that on society as a whole that it is objectively wrong? After all, it can be argued that sex outside of marriage or with multiple partners isn't in & of itself causing any harm to anyone. & for people whom are atheists, fundamentalist Mormons or any other faith or belief that accepts & embraces those things, why should they be expected to treat these things as immoral based on religious baselines that they do not agree with? The obvious answer of course is they shouldn't. Their subjective moral code deems polyamory & sex outside marriage as moral, my subjective moral code deems it as immoral. & since none of us truly knows if God exists, none of us can say with any real authority which standard is true & correct. Now compare that to say... Adultery or pedophilia. Pedophiles regularly argue that sex with kids isn't immoral. However, due to what we do know about neurological development, especially in the regions of the brain that control executive functioning skills & other key pieces of cognitive framework needed to properly comprehend, consent to & mentally & emotionally process everything that goes along with sex, (primarily the pre-frontal cortex), we do know & can prove that sex with kids does in fact cause severe psychological harm, not to mention the high risk of physical harm that goes with it too. As for adultery, obviously there is the severe emotional & psychological trauma that goes along with the act of betrayal of one's spouse breaking their marital vows & sleeping with others. So these moral baselines are more universal & objective because clear harm is caused in allowing these acts to take place. That differentiating factor of course comes from the Golden rule & is augmented by universal consensus, social contracts & rule of law. So while morality, (again presuming that there is no higher power), is entirely a human social construct & is in & of itself subjective & arbitrary, the baseline for what is deemed objectively & universally moral or immoral is established by those other social constructs of universal consensus, social contracts & rule of law, all 3 of which are rooted in the social construct of the Golden rule. & that is why we cannot formulate our argumentation from the premise that moral position X is a universal standard if it does not meet that criteria. As for your claims about religious texts teaching to refrain from eating meat, sorry but you are mistaken, at least as far as Abrahamic religions are concerned. There are Biblical scriptures that clearly dictate which animals are ok to eat & which ones are not. Animal sacrifices as dictated by religious law were a cornerstone of the Hebrew culture throughout the Old Testament. In the New Testament, Christ appeared to Peter in a vision with a slew of animals that Christ told him to kill & eat. When Peter said he can't because they were unclean, Christ said "Do not call unclean that which I have made clean". Now granted, this was more of a visual metaphor for the manner in which the Apostles were to treat the Gentiles, but the visual example chosen here clearly shows that the premise that eating meat was discouraged in Biblical text is false. So having addressed all that, rounding out my argument, I have to address this part again, & I'm sorry for calling you out on this, but your own argumentation also illustrates my point about the dogmatism & cult like mindset of many vegans, (Understand I'm not saying YOU specifically are dogmatic & cult like, but rather components of your argumentation). You see, I presented quite a few thought experiments in my last posts, (this is that point I said earlier I would come back to). Now I said that I don't think the premise of "killing animals for meat is unnecessary" is correct because what happens to all these domesticated meat animals if we ended what vegans claim is the genocide of them for meat, only to "liberate" them to a REAL genocide of starvation or being hunted to extinction by releasing them into the wild where they, as the completely domesticated animals that they are, simply cannot survive? How do we feed our pets that require meat? Do we let them starve to death or suffer from malnourishment & potential health issues to save cows & chickens from a fate of the slaughterhouse, even though that only condemns them to a fate of starvation & neglect? Why is the vegan community silent on the immense benefits to the animals that the potential of cloned meat provides? I addressed all these issues, yet you completely avoided them. & I have found that this is a common trait amongst those with that cult like dogmatism & ideological zeal. Whether it's political extremists, (left or right), actual cults like the African Hebrew Israelites, or even my own peers within the Christian community, (specifically the ones that preach anti gay hatred, the eternal torture in Hell myth, Young Earth Creationism, etc...), I find that they always avoid the uncomfortable parts of the argument that they cannot address without it putting their ideology at risk. This trait in & of itself displays that cult like mindset. Therefore that is something to carefully consider.

[@NoStyleDutch]

This video was actually help in general for understanding ppl. Oddly calmed me down from various idiots I deal with. (And I’m aware to someone else, I am one of their Idiots.)

[@asianhippy]

Off to the shops to buy bacon and eggs for my breakfast. You have no right to preach your morality to me.

[@oransjball]

asianhippy older generation is a lost cause. 90% hopeless

[@TheNeverslept]

Rather ignorant and arrogant of you there wesrhdtyj

[@rebekkiej]

Im always so drawn to your eyes.. Makes me wonder, did they become lighter/more clear when you went vegan? Ive heard some people talk about that happening

[@stevenalcorn4955]

bandwidthzero she's a turd

[@rebekkiej]

bandwidthzero yeah I dont really listen to her cherrypiciking science tbh... fullyrawkristina says it did happened to her (and no matter how you feel about her you cant deny she has amazing eyes)

[@jvall5879]

I know a girl who is raw vegan and her eyes changed colors. i think that's probably just a raw vegan thing tho.

[@sixelasole7917]

14th lol

[@mattleach9957]

awesome video. analysis you don't see anywhere else, and not often the subject matter either

[@evenrisk]

this has inspired me. veal with spinach for lunch.

[@sarahc3975]

evenrisk I love when meat eaters just care so much to put stuff like that on vegan videos😂get a life

[@wouterdesmedt1736]

Suggestion - can you do a video on the link between emotions and food? Why comfort food is always high in processed carbs and fats, and all that fun stuff. I recently saw a Dr.Fuhrman video where he briefly spoke about this, but I'd love to know what science is out there on the subject.

[@verom1552]

Thank you for your videos they are great information and inspirational

[@Krufyre]

What about "Stupid-Easy Vegan Style Cooking"? I saw a comment you left on your CYA Bowl vid with Mr. Vegan, and you used this exact phrasing to describe upcoming food videos.

[@jennaweindel5384]

I ❤️Mic’s curly hair ❤️❤️❤️

[@thefinnishbolshevik2404]

For most of my time as a meat eater I simply didn't even consider the whole issue. When I decided I should go vegetarian (I'm vegan now) the only excuse I used to delay was that I still lived with my parents. However, after a few weeks I simply told them I wouldn't eat meat. They eventually got used to it.

[@TheMelodysalcedo]

I eat a lot of tofu and my family tells me thats worse than eating meat. I have researched it and I keep reading contradicting articles. Not sure how to shape my diet.

[@eightybananas4515]

Cookbook title "Mic Service: plant based cooking with a side of knowledge"

[@veganjackietv9364]

Does spinach everyday block calcium absorption?

[@katyc.1402]

I have noticed that both yours and a lot of other vegan youtubers videos have a high concentration of dairy and meat based ads. I clicked this video and it had an ad paid for by Pork, featuring pork ribs. This happens at least once daily when I watch vegan videos. Wondering if this intentional or do they just put food related ads on any slightly food related video?