How much does it cost to own an EV, Kia Sportage Hybrid driven & VFACTS | The CarExpert Podcast

[@hscomet]

Great show guys but please explain what's wrong with buying a PHEV? they seem to make sense to me & I'm getting ready to pull the pin on my last new car. btw insurance costs etc are all good...

[@danielhockin6705]

Thanks guys - good to see some interest here. A few observations from 5yrs driving EVs. 1) 98% of charging is done at home, at 8c/kWh. 2) No one will do a 50/50 split on charging. If you have home charging you will use it all the time, apart from road trips, if you don't, you will use 100% public charging (or at work) . 3) The vast majority of EV owner will charge at 7kW single phase (not 1.6kW off a 3 pin plug) - Why? because it allows them to charge faster to make use of cheap off peak rates. and lastly - 4) We never charge our battery from 0-100% its always just a top up, and this can always be done overnight at approx. 50km an hour. (to address the EV9 battery comment)

[@jixal]

Why are Plug in Hybrids so bad? With the FBT exemption with Noveated leasing it currently makes them more viable?

[@0097King]

Yes love the numbers, I like seeing comparisons like this, would like to see more with insurance costs and maybe even average parts cost, reliability etc

[@carl8790]

Who is spending 50% of their budget charging their EV at a fast DC charger? Majority of the charging is going to be done at home or at the work place.

[@MotoGuzziMoto]

To me plug-in hybrids make the most sense, and you should have put one through your cost calculations. By my estimates a Toyota Rav 4 plug in hybrid doing 10k kms per year is 33 kms per day if used 6 days per week, which means most travel is covered by battery power (they have a 70km range on battery). However, on a longer trip, you can go 1100 kms between fuel stops at 5L/100 and never use a fast charger. What is not to like?

[@pravinranchhod6446]

i have never heard of a toyota hybrid doing 5l-100kays and your not going to get 70kays from the battery if you look at all the reviews magazine and you tube it is 6 to 6,5 or even higher in real terms

[@MotoGuzziMoto]

@@pravinranchhod6446 That is just based on the claimed ranges from the manufacturer. The Rav 4 Prime has been shown to get 42 miles on the battery but agree the fuel mileage is very dependent on conditions. Regardless, the point is still true that PHEVs take the advantages of both EV and ICE and likely to win this 10k km price comparison in both cost to run and convenience.

[@zeedustrakok]

@@pravinranchhod6446for the rav4 hybrid you can easily count on 7 to 8 liter if you do lots of motorways.

[@MotoGuzziMoto]

@@paulsimpson8990 "lugging around an engine" is a permanent backup wherever charging is inconvenient, or gives you range anxiety, including that trip to grandma you didn't expect after work. And it fills that gap already mentioned about avoiding the dismal public charging network. Not so hard to understand and doesn't cost you in most circumstances. Try the 10k calculation done in this video and tell me what you come up with for running costs.

[@singhcertain]

Hey do you guys think that it is a good idea to pay a premium for a hybrid or EV as compared to an ICE vehicle considering it will take a long time to break even ...Thanks

[@johnlambert1744]

To answer that properly we would need to know your individual circumstances like how many k's do you travel a year? Do you do long road trips often? Do you have solar at home? Can you charge at work for free? Things like this will help you determine what's best for you.

[@DISCO_DUCK.]

I think with better technology the EVs are gonna work out a lot cheaper in coming years.

[@fatbusaracing1347]

In regards to performance Ute's, why can't Ford import the F150 2wd V8.. I'm sure there would be a line up for then, especially if they also offered the optional Super charger kit for them..

[@djjames6576]

Great video guys - So with EVs what about insurance and resale? I imagine resale may fall off a cliff for EVs after 5+ years adding to ownership costs?

[@RodneyW]

Resale values for many EV's fall off a cliff very quickly - even after just two years. According to Red Book, a 2022 Kia Niro Sport EV 2WD is worth $21,350-$41,950 now. With an original retail price of $70,990 that's an average depreciation loss of $17k p.a. Similarly a 2022 Tesla Model 3 RWD sold for $64,300 and is now worth $37,850-$48,350 - an average depreciation loss of $10,600 p.a. The 2022 BYD Atto has similarly depreciated by an average of $10,900 p.a. By contrast, a 2022 Toyota RAV 4 Cruiser Hybrid originally sold for $51,400 and is now worth $48,600 - $58,700 secondhand!! That's capital appreciation in a car.... A 2022 Mazda 3 Astina sold for $39,190 and is now worth $29,850 - $37,400 - and average loss of $2,800 p.a. As for insurance, according to youi, the Tesla Model 3 costs approximately $3,000 p.a. to insure. A RAV4 costs around $800 p.a.

[@johnlambert1744]

@@RodneyW You're pretty much correct with the hybrid RAV4s - I sold my 2020 for $6000 less than what I paid for it last year, with about 65,000km on it. However trying to buy a new one you have to wait up to 2 years or more! Who wants to do that? That's why they are worth a lot more 2nd hand. EVs aren't really something you buy to make money on selling 2nd hand. If you keep them long enough, the savings in fuel and servicing will help make up that difference. But yes insurance is a big thing of late as well depending on the make and model. You need to do your sums to see if buying an EV is worth it over an ICE equivalent.

[@RodneyW]

@@johnlambert1744 I agree, although the wait time is down a bit now. I bought a RAV4 for a relative with no wait time last year, because of a cancelled order. We considered an EV, but given the amount of highway driving they do (thus public chargers, which are expensive) it wasn't worth it.

[@Themitch343]

Love the cost of ownership comparisons - keep them coming for the future please. Realistically though they’re only relevant for reliable brands or models, or cars with very long warranties and/or long capped service costs. These cars - their figures are more calculable. There are many cars out there that don’t qualify in the above and you probably would waste time trying to be accurate.

[@suemercer9859]

Just starting my EV research. I’d really appreciate hearing about the insurance costs. Tks

[@gurpreetrandhawa-do2ub]

Hey Scott, yes please can we please have insurance costs comparison as well. If possible can you please include BYD seal dynamic compared to Camry hybrid.

[@mickjoebills]

Shop around for insurance, our EV is same as our ice Volvo but one quote was $900 more.

[@mighty_bunny]

I've got a CTEK charger to keep my Outback alive when I'm not driving it. Even the regular ones are pretty idiot-proof, but i still find myself carefully reading the manual every time i use it just to make sure i don't break anything.

[@twinrotors]

Youi States. Insurance for model Y ranges from $1,548 / $2,783. It states RAV4 is ANNUAL PREMIUM RANGE $689 to $1,412. That’s a whopping $900 - $1100 a year difference. @CarExpertAus don’t be lazy (that took 5 minutes)

[@mighty_bunny]

I enjoyed the number crunching in this episode! I'd like to see more analysis like it in future. Also would love to see you all have a debate on PHEVs now, haha!

[@JamesKnightSmith]

Good comparison, we need to get through all these different numbers that are being reported so we can actually make a decent comparison. Here’s a few other things to consider. Claimed economy vs actual economy? Vehicle resale? Also how quickly does the battery capacity deteriorate. I’ve heard one of these goes down by over 1/4 to 1/2.

[@johnlambert1744]

As a Tesla owner I can pretty much say that battery degradation isn't as bad as a lot of people think. My Model Y has less than 1% and it's already done 14,000km. Going by a few owners with between 200,000km and 300,000km they are only seeing about 10% degradation, which really is pretty good. Battery tech is constantly improving too, so this is only going to get better over time.

[@JamesKnightSmith]

Good to know. I wasn’t referring to the Tesla.

[@governorstash8168]

What about depreciation?

[@shanesauvarin]

I’m not pro or anti EV….but I think one of things that is ignored is the upside of never having to go to a petrol station again (particularly if you charge at home). There is some large upside in that

[@Richard-sl8we]

Excellent point, thanks.

[@iguanagoat799]

I get you need to pick broad averages here - but it's important to note that many electricity providers have 'EV Plans' with discounted charging to 8c/kwh or even free for off-peak charging. So running costs can be zero.

[@Ted...youtubee]

True.. But one thing that is also true.. Is... That won't last more than 4-5 years. Reference to solar panels feed in tariffs.

[@davedonnelly8681]

@@Ted...youtubee it probably wont last for ever but this is the great thing with the grid getting excess solar. The more solar feed in tariffs drop the cheaper your ev is to run. Granted this logic would require that you have to charge your car when the sun is shining and not at night.

[@mickjoebills]

Charging off peak overnight for $4 for 350km range is what majority of EV owners do! Off peak rates have been around for decades. What is new is due to much solar there is free tarrif between 11am-2pm in many areas. A single phase household supports a 7kWh charge rate so the EV 9 will charge from 10% to 100% in 12 hours. You state tongue in cheek "you will never charge it" and "it will take weeks to charge" on a "3 pin plug" Basing home charging on use of a 10amp granny charger demonstrates a bizarre lack of awareness of what EV owners are up to....

[@mickjoebills]

​@@Ted...youtubeeoff peak electricity tarrifs have been around for decades. We have more excess capacity then ever before, free tarrif between 11-2pm

[@IXXIBoss]

@@Ted...youtubee And.....petrol wont be $1.91 in 4 or 5 years. Comparisons can only be made for the current state of affairs.

[@ObiePaddles]

I’m happy with more detail. If doing a comparison we need comparable cars. The EVs chosen aren’t really RAV4 competitors….either too small or too big and premium. So comparing 2 ICE vs 2 EVs would be preferable.

[@CarExpertAus]

This wasn’t about comparable cars as much as popular cars. RAV4 is the most popular SUV in Australia, so it was about showing the comparison between cars Aussie’s are buying.

[@ObiePaddles]

@@CarExpertAus fair enough.

[@Deathsencore]

Why is that guy against a PHEV, the outlander seems like a great vehicle?

[@johnlambert1744]

I think it's due to the extra cost over a regular hybrid, you're never going to get that money back in savings. They recommend just getting a full EV over a plug-in if you want the benefits of electric.

[@stevemilis2718]

What’s the re-sale /trade in value of these cars after 5 to 10 year ?

[@actualfacts1055]

How much on the road ?

[@jamesralph5908]

Also got to consider that EVs run through tyres more quickly, buying a dedicated wall charger at home, and insurance is more expensive (battery is expensive and they’re more powerful cars for the most part).

[@MaxFromSydney1]

Also depreciation should be discussed.

[@sirtyjuan]

Plenty of EV owners are reporting over 50,000km on a set of tyres.

[@iguanagoat799]

The tyre wear thing isn't really true anymore. The theoretical cause is additional weight - but if you compare with equivalent ICE cars - often the EV weight is similar (i.e. Model Y to a BMW X3, or a Model 3 to a BMW 3-series for example).

[@johnlambert1744]

@jamesralph5908 - Dedicated wall chargers can be as cheap as about $300-$600 including installation, which is easily made up in fuel savings after the first few months.

[@mickjoebills]

​​@@MaxFromSydney1 depreciation topic is relevant but figures shouldn't be based on the period from 2020 to 2023 where new prices fell. Forecasting new prices in the coming years is trickey, it's clear range increase will be an option, Tesla byd and CATL all forecast improved battery power density, it also offers prospect of lighter vehicles with a reduced size pack and lower price?

[@kjlovescoffee]

Everyone I know who bought a car below $30k in the last few years bought 2nd hand, because of limited options, and the value for money on new cars at that price is just not there.

[@chrisyoung7157]

Has anybody tested the fuel mileage on hybrids as the battery gets older? I have a sneaking suspicion the fuel consumption will go up as the battery degrades. At some point the mileage will probably be worse than a purely ICE car that's not dragging around an almost dead battery.

[@Deathsencore]

Did you know fuel consumption gets worse with age in ICE vehicles as well?

[@chrisyoung7157]

@@Deathsencore I'm sure it does. I suspect the amount is tiny by comparison. I wonder if there are any studies that can be pointed to. The average age of the Australian ICE fleet is something like 11 years which suggests to me they are getting close to 20 before getting retired and scrapped. Do we expect EV's to last this long? As Ev's cost more carbon emissions to build in the first place I'm not convinced they are going to do much to save the planet if we need to build nearly twice as many of them. They are good for reducing dependence on foreign oil and particulates in cities though.

[@captaindasbomb6862]

I find cross brands comparisons a bit weird. Would have made sense to do RAV 4 Edge Cruiser vs BZ4x so that cult members stay within their respective religions 😎. As a 40 something typical Volvo driver i did an apples for apples comparison with the XC40 Mid Hybrid & Full EV both in the Ultimate spec with the petrol being $80k & BEV being $95k both driveway prices in WA so a $15000 difference which surprisingly is the same difference between the RAV 4 Edge & AWD BZ4X. 1. Insurance quote for 40 yr old male, $500 excess & no claims bonus protection with RAC: Mild Hybrid - $2400 & BEV - $1725 per year.Low Emissions Discount applied. 2. Service Cost 5 year plan: Mild Hybrid - $3000 & BEV - Complimentary 3. Running cost for 15000km per year: Mild Hybrid - 7.2Litres/100km @ $2 per litre = $2160. BEV - 17.5kWh/100km 75% home charge @ 8.2c Super Off Peak & 25% Charge-fox @ 60c/kW = $555. 4. Rego Annual - Mild Hybrid $955 & BEV $1100 Above works out to be ~$2300 per year in favour of the BEV. Probably should include the cost of tyres as those 20" P-Zero EV tyres are not cheap. PS. Mid life crisis me leased a Polestar 2 Long Range RWD with Pilot Pack for $81250 driveway. Averaging 15.5kWh/ 100km so far which is roughly 450km @ 90% charge limit. Smart person would have bought the standard range Tesla Model 3 which still qualifies the $3500 WA government rebate but Elon. Yeah nah

[@d.k.1394]

Great vid guys

[@micktokar]

Doesn't matter if Rav 4 will be cheaper to run if you can't buy this car. 18 months wait time is crazy.

[@TB-up4xi]

So many variables when considering an EV v petrol or diesel car. I'm not sure you can compare these across the board in this broad way - have to look specifically at what you would consider a like-for-like choice, for example an Ora Cat v Corolla, A Model 3 v Audi A4 etc. You have to look at your use case as well - my home EV plan is 8c per kwh and I average 10.8wh/km I charge 95%+ at home so my cost per 10,000 km is under $100 and my model 3 cost less than a Camry hybrid after incentives.

[@Masteraal]

EV9 fast charging figure looks incorrect. It should be $1267.50

[@paulcfyeung]

Ok Sean with a fresh haircut, that's a massive improvement on the old!

[@twinrotors]

Insurance costs????? Please extreme difference for EV v RAV4

[@IXXIBoss]

FWIW, my EV9 costs me $800 a year to insure, so there is a lot of leeway with these figures. It really does depend on a lot of factors.

[@twinrotors]

@@IXXIBoss ha! A three tonne battery on wheels with no range, and 110K+ Let me take a look at that Land Cruiser you were mentioning 😂

[@IXXIBoss]

@@twinrotorsYou couldn’t afford one bro. Just stick with your RX7 😂

[@twinrotors]

You are right Daniel Johnson. I can’t. That’s why I am asking about running costs, insurances and tyre wear, as well a Novated options. I think I would be more of an old school 6 cylinder skyline than RX7. Congrats on your purchase 👍

[@d.k.1394]

Pay $100 000 for a kia?????

[@vincesteer7960]

Is that Germaine Jackson ?

[@btpp12]

I get 6.4 litres per 100kms why spend more for kia hybrid for similar fuel economy

[@d.k.1394]

What car u have

[@btpp12]

@@d.k.1394 outlander 23 ES awd

[@sirtyjuan]

EV owners charge at home for 8c/kWh or even 0c/kWh on a timed tariff with OVO and other retailers. You can literally pay nothing to fuel an EV.

[@brettoau84]

Yep, I do exactly this. In 14,000kms only once used a paid supercharger for a $15 top up to get home.

[@vladthe3rd414]

False

[@jonnyjones1292]

Yup, 20k kms.. $434 spent at an avg 7.13c per kWh

[@brettoau84]

@@jonnyjones1292you mean cents not dollars?

[@jonnyjones1292]

@@brettoau84 yes oops this… 7c kWh avg I’ve only supercharged once too

[@DavidWalsh-g5i]

Until the timing chain slips

[@susmeetkhaire8426]

Even I would like to know why you'll think PHEV's aren't a good option. Mitsubishi outlander PHEV seems too good. Unreliable public charging infrastructure is my one main reason to not consider an EV. Granted it will only be a problem on road trips but don't want to regret taking EV on a road trip with kids and then wait for hours in queue for charging.

[@darrenjordan841]

G'day, I'm Paul.

[@twinrotors]

Tyre wear please!!! If you are going to compare running costs .. please compare the costs

[@CarExpertAus]

Hard to quantify tyre wear as every car will be different based on a myriad of factors. When we do a future episode coving insurance, etc we will cover cost of replacement tyres

[@twinrotors]

@@CarExpertAus pretty easy to quantify insurance costs right? Picked a single member of the team and request a quote from the same company for the cars.

[@twinrotors]

@@CarExpertAus I just google this, first thing that popped up. The tyres of electric vehicles wear 20% faster than those of internal combustion engines due to a few factors: Battery pack weight: EVs tend to be heavier than gasoline-powered vehicles due to the battery pack weight. This additional weight can put more stress on the tyres and cause them to wear out faster.

[@twinrotors]

@@CarExpertAus I would then compare the cost of the standard tyre fitted to the models, apply the 15000km average. and bobs your uncle. You are replacing tyres every two and a half years. Instead of 3 or 3.5

[@IXXIBoss]

@@twinrotors A 7 seat landcruiser weighs in at 2625kg, a 7 seat EV9 weighs in at 2636kg. Doubt that extra 11kg is going to be burning out tyres any quicker. I know there are other comparisons that can be made, but those are two very similarly sized vehicles. The first Google result isnt necessarily the best.

[@pravinranchhod6446]

toyota rav4 will never do 4.7km/l its more like 6 6.5 or even higher

[@andrithio]

Shame the comprarison does not incllude insurance and rego cos I know that insurance for ev is much more expensive. I know that insurance can vary ddepending on who, but could have just based it on a single staff memmber in the carexpert crew. Comparing cars of similar prices. Yes PLEASE include w info on insuring the cars and reggo! Maybe commpare somethhing like RAv4 GXL2WD Hybrid vs Atto3 standard whichh has quite similar driveaway price.

[@TB-up4xi]

The insurance on my 2023 RWD Tesla model 3 is $1020 a year full comprehensive with GIO, it replaced a 2019 Audi A4, the insurance on that (like for like) was $1280 a year with the same company. A full year of rego is pretty much the same in NSW $660 for the Tesla I think the Audi was $649 - the only difference is the weight tax, the Audi weighed 1660kg and the Tesla is 1765kg

[@The-Wise-One]

These cars are Too Expensive. People don't want them, but their options are less, they are being pressured to buy these evs. I don't want an EV, hate the entire idea.

[@Ted...youtubee]

I need an EV to have the ability to turn off remote access and control.

[@KiwiPokerPlayer]

I don't understand you Aussies. What's the point in putting up with the hassle and cost of EVs when 80% of your electricity comes from coal?

[@_wat2do]

No one cares about the fuel type. We just like a vehicle thats got grunt and feels solid to drive.

[@d.k.1394]

Lol

[@twinrotors]

💯 right. Although I think 70% of our grid electricity comes from a combination of gas and coal.

[@samzhang5682]

because they want to ‘do the right things’

[@MrDJCoulton]

Even if that's true- which might not be for solar paneled homes - it is far easier to perform carbon capture on a powerplant than it is millions of ICE vehicles

[@zeedustrakok]

Can’t take this serious if you call the model 3 a luxury car.

[@mohsenkarimi.iran_tehran]

🇯🇵🇯🇵🇯🇵

[@actualfacts1055]

Buy a used one for half the price.

[@travellinghusbandschronicles]

Wear some socks Scott collie (very distracting) & have a haircut James !

[@tadeusz1504]

I don't understand this latest RAV4 obsession. I was driven in one as a taxi. The road noise inside was horrible. My twenty year old Volvo V50 is plush in comparison. All this moto journalist speech of fun to drive, engaging, dynamic etc. is all nonsense. Ride comfort combined with sufficient power to be safe in city traffic and for overtaking safely on a highway are key. All modern cars would have road manners sufficient for safe driving at legal speeds, wouldn't they? They don't need to be more "engaging" to drive than that.

[@d.k.1394]

Lol

[@SillyBilly1089]

3rd

[@The-Wise-One]

Your review on costs is so off. You pay more for a EV. You pay more for brakes, tyres, etc You pay more for insurance. You overall pay may even if you save on fuel and service costs. Your review is so WRONG. DO A PROPER REVIEW PLEASE.

[@CarExpertAus]

Feel free to watch the video where we cover this.

[@d.k.1394]

2nd

[@d.k.1394]

1st

[@laceyunderall68]

EV's are more expensive to buy, insure, tyres are more expensive and last less kms, brakes wear quicker because of extra weight, claimed range is exaggerated, resale is appalling, replacement battery is tens of thousands of $. Thanks for doing a basic cost analysis but honestly in the real world ALL things considered they aren't even competitive in any way to normal cars. Anyone with uncommon sense can see that surely. I can't believe I was considering an EV until I did my research. These things just don't add up.

[@TB-up4xi]

Where did you get your informaiton from? I replaced a 2019 Audi A4 45TFSI with a 2023 RWD Tesla model 3 in March last year. After 26,000 km and 1 year in the model 3 I have spent less than $250 on fuel (8c per kwh overnight charging rate from AGL), $0 on services, $0 on tyres and brakes (both of which are cheaper and last longer than the Audi), it's still on OEM tyres without a rotation and the brakes will last forever, I have less than 10% wear on the brakes and maybe 50-60% on the tyres - 90% plus braking is regen braking from the motor, I 'd be just about considering changing the tyres on the Audi around now. After 3 1/2 years and 80,000km in the Audi I spent $6,600 on services, $11,700 on fuel, $3,200 on tyres and $4,800 to replace all the rotors and new pads. $26,300 all up. The car cost me $81,000 and I sold it for $41,000 in pristine condition with new brakes and sub 2000km tyres. My Tesla cost $58,900 after rebates and the insurance is $1020 a year full comprehensive v $1280 for the Audi, same coverage same company. Granted, the cost to replace the battery in my Tesla is $16k but it has an 8 year warranty and an average lifespan of over 1 million km - so I don't think I need to worry about that. Not sure what cars you were comparing but it's an absolute no- brainer for me in my circumstances.

[@mickjoebills]

​​@@TB-up4xi lacey is a great example of those folks who watch a KZbin video and believe everything..

[@IXXIBoss]

Brakes wear quicker.... you really did your research well I see.

[@JetLagRecords]

CarExpert, You're fantastic! Let's be friends and have fun!