How Much Faster Is Drafting On A Climb?

Many of you will know that drafting behind another cyclist saves you loads of energy, making you faster, and cycling behind a peloton saves you even more energy, even up to 95%! But what about if you were to draft on a climb? How much energy and time would this save you? Alex and Ollie are in Girona to find out!
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[@gcntech]

Have you ever drafted to get a KOM/QOM?

[@jascollinscork]

Yes a few….. behind a tractor and trailer …… on the flat and one downhill behind a van but 🤫🤐😂😂 also got a few PB’s uphill behind a few vehicles 😉😉

[@notreally2406]

What?

[@FL-ym6hm]

All my KOM’s were on solo rides. Just me and the road. As it was meant to be.

[@srddrs9285]

Cheaters suck. QOM/KOM should be like an individual time trial. As for drafting off me, good luck at 48Kg, 1.5m. It's likely not going to be much if any benefit. Besides, I'll be doing my very best to leave drafters far behind unless I'm doing a *very *rare group ride. It's unlikely average cyclists will be able to keep up for long.

[@jackofharts94]

I'm going to need a UCI check on Ollie's sock length

[@gcntech]

😬

[@edholmes3492]

@@gcntech The UCI has no jurisdiction here 😉

[@JonCannings]

More like FIFA

[@HECTORBIDO]

Jajajaja

[@russstarke6004]

As a former motorcycle driver for pro races, what that guy did was not easy. Really hard to match the pace of someone behind you.

[@jeffreywilliams3646]

Might be interesting for Ollie and Alex to do a draft on the flat so you could compare their results against the formal study.

[@mstrasser]

wonder if Alex's aero bike also helped cut the wind more behind the moto? And with another rider I've always found faster (unless they're real slow). Not only pacing each other but the motivation to keep going and push harder is greater for me at least.

[@gearknobz]

Alex is slowly getting his fitness back. Si and Ollie are keeping everyone on their toes. Dan...

[@hph211]

Looking forward to seeing these tests / challenges with an e-motorcycle. Fumes can’t be helping.

[@garysanderson4932]

Yes carbon monoxide poisoning can’t be helping the riders breathing

[@albr4]

from my experience it's way faster than on your own. In my last road race, I went up the climb in training a few times and when it got to the race it was easily 2-3mph faster riding in the pack and I wasn't pushing anywhere near as hard.

[@cvdavis]

I was in a race one time and going up a hill I’d done many times before. It was a hill I had the kom on and I knew it very well. I was absolutely astounded at the drafting effect I was getting when in this group while going up the hill. It felt like I was getting towed up it.

[@desmoMarco91]

Awesome! How steep is it?

[@richcrompton6891]

Looks like need some mates to cycle with! I mostly ride alone, if I want to get a pb, I have to wait for a strong wind from the right direction! I’m not sure the benefit works when the gradient goes double digit unless it’s a hurricane!

[@rachelharvey71]

Alex looks so proud of Ollie when he sets off 😊

[@emiljarengrim2536]

Considering the form Ollie is in with beating Tour de France champions I was expecting this experiment will most likely end with the motorcycle drafting on Ollies wheel for extra speed!

[@gcntech]

He can dream!

[@jonathanweissbart2710]

I smashed my PB up Archway Road in London by drafting behind a bus. That was a 5% incline and I averaged 33kmh. I haven’t got near that time since.

[@jarrodfife242]

Anything under 8% gradient draft is a huge factor. Because youre going so much faster. So when pros do 25kmph they’re saving so much more energy.

[@billkallas1762]

The faster you ride, the more benefit you get from drafting. I would find it incredibly difficult to ride for any distance at 50 kph, but could easily sit in at 50 kph, as long as there aren't any surges.

[@Karlemilstorm]

Air resistance is relative to speed squared, and thus when going up a climb at lets say half the speed compared to riding flat the air resistance will be 1/4th. It is interesting to see that it still has a large impact

[@nerigarcia7116]

When I climb GMR on my own I always suffer, but the one time I did it with another rider I was a lot fresher and did it faster. Now I'm not sure whether I was just stronger that day, his pacing helped me along mentally, or drafting helped. But I have a feeling it may have just been all of the above that factored into it.

[@jeropage95]

Bold of GCN to asume we climb above 15km/hr

[@ricf9592]

I felt it was about saving oxygen by not having to think! Following a wheel up a hill when the leader is concentrating 100% on maintaining a pace, having to use power meters etc, it's far easier to just switch everything off and just stare at the rear wheel of the bike ahead. Note: The brain is the heaviest user of oxygen. Use the least amount of it you can when climbing.

[@Z-u-m-a]

Interesting point

[@davekashuba4730]

A few of the people I raced against had some sort of valve that would shut off all oxygen to their brain. I have plenty of scars as proof!

[@larrylem3582]

Geez, I had to look that up. The brain uses 20% of the body's oxygen. That's probably at rest or normal non-active wakefulness, but still, way more than I expected.

[@klarkolofsson]

Drafting E-bikes uphill is the best.

[@Bobjoshable]

He now has to say "love you bye" at the end of every video

[@messi101507]

Average grade was 3.4%. I imagine the steeper the grade, the less drafting benefit. Would there be any drafting benefit if the grade was over 7%?

[@2.old4this]

#ASKGCNTECH - Hi there Tech Gurus and Hank. Q: having watched this informative ‘drafting’ video, what difference does weight make? Should group rides stick the heaviest riders at the back to help them up steep climbs? Nice to see Alex is now healed internally too. Choooosy.

[@ltrtg13]

When Ollie said was hard work. To be honest. It didn't feel too bad to me.

[@pedalbikah]

Are we all gonna ignore that the scientists last name is blocken? He must always ride in front.

[@petereccott2869]

It would be interesting to know the power differences (if any) between the drafting and non drafting assents. Plus what speed were you they riding at? Are us mere mortals anywhere near that speed to benefit from drafting? Typically the hills where I am are short and sharp (i.e. less than 2km and average over 8%), is there going to be any drafting benefit on a climb like that?

[@GCNuser123]

it’s in the vid at the end?

[@petereccott2869]

@@GCNuser123 Not really. You said "Alex put out 10 watts less when behind the bike" But how many watts are we talking overall, are we talking 300-310, 350-360 or higher? It would be interesting to know as this would then frame the results in relation to other people power outputs or speeds. As we know the slower you go the less drafting has an effect, so if you are climbing at less than 15km/h is drafting having any effect at all??

[@GCNuser123]

@@petereccott2869 my bad. frustratingly the bit where i said the numbers has been cut out and i didn’t realize. i averaged ~315w Alex was around 360 from memory. hope this helps. 👍🏼

[@redben9046]

The first one who goes off wasn't he riding an e-bike ? Not sure

[@ukestjohn]

Firstly, I try to keep my speed under 15kph in order to stop my friends from getting an advantage from drafting me. Secondly, I've had trouble getting random motorcyclists to putter up the mountains in B.C. at 20 kph.

[@nightsfalling]

Now that you guys know this maybe take another chance at SA Calobra but with everyone drafting instead of a relay.

[@glennmanifold6345]

Ollie, we need an extra beep! 😂 it starts on 5 and long beep on 0!

[@guest_informant]

Definitely appreciate the thought and effort that's gone into this, but isn't it important to mention wind speed and wind direction. From personal experience that is a huge factor for any solo rider. It still surprises me just how much difference the wind makes, even on climbs. Whether the wind is with you or against you, and by how much, is going to be the deciding factor for pretty much any PB isn't it?

[@g.west2372]

definitly. if your having a blocking >20km/h headwind it doesn't matter, if its uphill or downhill... get the PBs on the way back ;-)

[@GCNuser123]

so, i checked the weather impact and conditions on mywindsock. there were very similar on both runs. temperature was within a degree and wind speed direction was the same.

[@guest_informant]

@@GCNuser123 It looked like it. The conditions seemed similar. And this wasn't really a criticism, the whole video made its point really well. Cheers :-)

[@PsyKeks]

Only really watched this one because it should be when they met Russ from the channel Path Less Pedaled and I wanted to see if he made it into the video. 😆

[@shepshape2585]

If you set a pb on a climb riding solo, and then set a better time drafting others, it's not truly a pb is it?

[@zalethciano]

What was the slope of thtat climb? I belive that at more slope less drafting benefit

[@cb6866]

Thanks Alex and Ollie....exhaust fumes a PED ?

[@miketumelty8183]

Proper socks those!

[@jaredlash5002]

So, what is the performance effect of breathing in moto exhaust for an entire climb?

[@aliensporebomb]

Next time motorcycle and more than one cyclist to duplicate the peloton effect. Interesting video.

[@douglasbooth6836]

Depends on the wind but i def would. Carrot chasing always makes you faster.

[@figgenskev6396]

Next time when i'm behind a motorbike on a climb i will consider.

[@davepratt9909]

"Aero is important!" Says the guy with the jacket flapping in the wind.

[@GCNalex]

Do as we say and not as we do hahaha

[@martinhutchinson9265]

Bert Blocken...aerodynamics expert.😀

[@danshort10]

Hmmm was that Simon on the strava board THE Simon?

[@Oilyhands749]

Did the exhaust fumes from the motorbike effect you?

[@-P-Z-]

Great video. Keep bringing such quality content

[@gcntech]

Always 🙌 that's what we are hear for!

[@mnbv5555cxz]

is ti me? or is Ollie looking a lot like Chris Froome these days? I think it's the arms

[@jascollinscork]

Leave him alone his in the gym ATM 😀

[@GCNuser123]

haha! my arms aren’t gonna with any gun shows! 😂

[@JonCannings]

💪

[@fredmcgough748]

If that was me going up that hill I would hook a Bungie cord to my handle bars then to the motorcycle.

[@gcntech]

Risky strategy but would be a lot less effort 😂

[@savagepro9060]

Just draft behind Andrew Feather

[@benandsoph]

#askgtn Please please please can you do video on how you make videos!! We watched this one and noticed the moto had no camera operator but the camera seemed to follow the rider, but on the Zwift academy videos there is a camera operator on the back of the Moto. How do you do it, who is editing it and how much script writing do you do? How many days planning goes into one 20 minute vid? Im sure plenty of us would like to know!!!

[@marcvb3364]

What was the grade on this climb? Would be interesting to know!

[@alecoloughlin9735]

You can see the segment at 3:35. Its 3.4% with several flatter sections and the KOM is at 32km/h.

[@marcvb3364]

@@alecoloughlin9735 thanks, oversaw that

[@mighelone]

Being Alex heavier than Ollie, he should get less benefits from drafting, since the weight resistance is more important for him.

[@rabidsminions2079]

Could it be worse with drafting as you are inhaling the motorbike fumes.

[@MatthewBayard]

What is Alex's module near the cranks?

[@davekashuba4730]

That's the aero storage box that comes with the latest Orbea Orca Aero frame. It's supposed to act as a fairing. For some reason, Alex won't let anyone see what's inside of his. Hmmmmmm.

[@GCNalex]

@@davekashuba4730 Its top secret, maybe its a selection of snacks, maybe its the battery for a hidden motor, maybe its full of money....OR Maybe its empty.....

[@davidl.2456]

Uh, hello? What was your average SPEED?? That's crucial for judging how important drafting was...

[@coldforgedcowboy]

@GCN Tech... You need a motor bike with a bigger wind screen and bigger saddle bags to move more air out of the way. The Yamaha Nikken they use for the Tour De France even has an extra wheel and an extra rider.

[@marcinprochownik8120]

Sorry, i can't wathing your channel anymore while outside i have -18 C degress and 0,5m od snow. Will be back at spring

[@matthewbaynham6286]

Should have used an electric motorbike, because the fumes from the motorbike will effect how much oxygen the cyclist can inhale.

[@iskandarwee4775]

No ear plugs?

[@djrlloyd]

So aerodynamics is important at speeds above 15kph on a climb………one day maybe, one day 🤔😂

[@dtmateo]

You were on the big ring on a big gear so it’s barely a climb is it? It’s nothing but a false flat. On a real climb where pros could barely hit 20kph how much drafting can you really do?

[@billkallas1762]

Drafting at 15 kph, up a hill, is hardly measurable.

[@jascollinscork]

Great video guys 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 but I wonder how well would a amateur rider would do drafting in a Pelaton on the flat or uphill 🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@gcntech]

Good question!

[@notreally2406]

Pel O ton

[@GCNalex]

Ollie and i are amateur riders!

[@tomrachellesfirstdance7843]

Alberto Contador must of had a huge disadvantage with his style

[@gcntech]

Maybe that's why Ollie dropped him then 😉

[@tomrachellesfirstdance7843]

@GCN Tech shots fired... Next year on GCN Bertie vs Oli you know you want to 😉

[@matthiasst284]

#pathlesspedaled ;-)

[@jacknicolas]

#askgcntech at what angle of the torso does one start to see aero gains, while riding on the hoods?

[@AndrewCJXing]

Lousy work on data representation and visualization, power-wise, time-wise, and course-/slope-wise. Very disappointing.

[@martindaly8683]

Still. O gloves

[@throx]

Unfortunately for Ollie, drafting involves not getting dropped. ;)

[@gcntech]

He's trying his best!

[@SMlFFY85]

Els Àngels bicycle gang