How Much Representation Is "Enough"?

If LGBT people are a minority in real life, shouldn't they be a minority in the Media too?
No. Here's why.
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#pride #lgbt #lgbtqia #representation

[@airynod]

In numbers, queer people have "enough" representatives in media, but in quality? Not even close. That also happens in racial minorities, but I will argue that not every story needs romance in it, tho. A good story/ a good character is much more meaningful than countless minor characters that added for tokenism.

[@TeaUniversity]

Sooo true nowadays straight writers will put a queer character in with 0 regard for accurate representation. And then some people will praise them?!?🧍🏻‍♂️

[@Ririi17]

@@TeaUniversity basiclly

[@gemstar7286]

Why does nobody ever want to see more ASEXUAL representation???, i want to see more of that representation...i feel plenty of characters could easily be Asexual, but a romance is still shoehorned into their life 🙄.

[@Calamity_Joe]

For Queers it's never enough. It's important to help third-world countries compared to entitled queers living in rich countries who value too much of their individual discrimination. Being hungry is worse compared to your representation.

[@ehxjsjd4553]

​@@Calamity_Joe did you watch the same video that I did? Did you even watch the video? The video wasn't about privilege country's, with queer people in it that would like representation VS poor countries (speaking about socioeconomic status) with high poverty rates. We are aloud to agree that there are more problems in the world than one at a time. And just because you may mention one doesn't mean you need to mention them all. I could also just throw on the problem of school shootings in America or youth crime in Australia or the war in Ukraine. But non of that is applicable to the topic at hand. Yes, it is bad that people go hungry, but it's also bad that minorities in media don't get representation enough. Is one worse than the other... yes, I don't want anyone to go hungry. But that's not what this is about. What even is your point?

[@miriam8376]

A similar misunderstanding of goals came with the “strong female character” trope. It was originally writer lingo meant to describe complex female characters who were as round and developed and flawed as male characters rather than objects for male characters to “get” or “lust over”. Now it’s generally interpreted as women who are as tough as they are sexy, women who refuse to yield to circumstances. They misunderstood what “strong” meant and took the same cookie cutter perspective toward female characters, just trading the set of criteria from passive and attractive to tough and attractive. Enough rep is when you have enough roles that the “good” rep is contained as a segment of the “real” rep.

[@Zeverinsen]

_That's exactly why I hated Captain Marvel._

[@GeeEee75]

I recently watched the Bond movie, Skyfall, for the first time, and enjoyed the character of M, played by Judi Dench, as an example of a strong, but flawed, female character, who is not conventionally attractive or young.

[@alexhirsch5738]

Obligatory joke: "Wow James, you made a 50 minute video about a 2000's comedy and a 15 minute video about queer people? Sounds like you dont really care about representation that much, proportionally" But anyway, phenomenal video, thank you so much for voicing all that ❤❤❤

[@JamesWoodall]

And in that 50 minute video I make the case for why Janis is straight 🙈 I'm a monster!

[@bloop6111]

Does thinking about inclusion of lgbtqia+ characters as “representation” seem stifling to anyone else? Maybe this is part of the issue and why we keep getting these cardboard characters that exist only to be like “look, a gay! And what a stand up and likable person! Ok bye now.” Because when you have, let’s just say a lesbian character, she would be expected to be a good example of lesbians (if we’re thinking in terms of representation). But what if the plot needs her to make major mistakes and be unlikable sometimes? A writer might then have to make the decision to not make her a lesbian for fear of bad rep, and just keep her straight. The more representation you have in one story, the fewer characters are allowed to be deeply flawed. You have to be cognizant of who you can’t kill off or give any attributes that could be considered negative or stereotypical. It’s a weird line to walk and I’m all about inclusion, I’m just genuinely like, there is an issue here because if a character has to be a perfect “representation” then are they allowed to be a flawed person? Are they only allowed to be flawed in ways that are carefully crafted so as not to give the wrong impression to audiences who can’t be bothered to learn about lgbtqia+ people on their own time? My point is, I’m tired of cardboard cutout “perfect example” representation. That representation isn’t even for us, it’s for the uninformed. I want stories filled with inclusion but let the characters be flawed and real.

[@bloop6111]

@@nothingnoone714 very good point!

[@sevds000]

I agree with everything you said! Your comment made me think of that one verilybitchie's video where she talks about how "good" lgbtq representation is boring for the same reason Def recommended!

[@miriam8376]

Agreed. It’s part of the reason that I, a queer woman, often avoid media that is clearly meant to “include” me: it tends to be good rep but boring fiction.

[@sworddragonsliege]

That is why I think it is important to have more queer people in media. Because if there's just one person they are "representing" a very diverse group of people all by themselves, but if there's a lot of queer people there is room for them to be different and flawed without saying negative things about a group of people. Of course, people should still be mindful of how they portray queer people. Generally my take is, there can never be too many queer people in media.

[@Sammy200655294]

I do agree. However as of now, I believe there are still far too many queer "baddies" and queers killed off or not getting the happy ending they deserve, especially in major movies/series. So it would be nice to see more wholesome queer stories. That's why I love sex education so much - they show true diversity, where the characters are far from perfect, but they aren't villains or get killed off.

[@morrisginzburg1978]

Also, in a group of queer friends, 100% of queer characters would be "realistic" and accurate. In a different group, it might be 10%, 30% or whatever. We don't ask for representation of all ages in a highschool movie, but we are taking into account context. What are the chances a family is all cisgender hetero? Maybe its a large percentage, however, the issue is where that is the "default" set

[@A-G-A-G]

But I don’t see any depictions that actually go so far as to have that as a default- so really there’s no reason to complain about that.

[@Zeverinsen]

It really *does* depend on what story you are telling and where it is set. Makes sense to have teenagers in a high school, but a full cast of geriatrics might make more sense in a nursing home. Makes sense to have only Native American actors if your story is set pre 1600's, or only black actors if it is set in South Africa pre 1800's, but after that you'd have to take history into account. It makes sense to have several characters whom are out of the closet in a movie set after the 2010's, but not really in the 1900's or before.

[@thelordconstantine1464]

What does your, "where that is the default set" mean? I was thinking it as depending on the set (gay movie or Star Wars) it may be more or less focused and therefore "default" to the set.

[@morrisginzburg1978]

@@thelordconstantine1464 that's what I mean, why is Star Wars default for not having queer characters? (Unless it's specifically a world where homosexuality is non-existent, but that seems a bit like a cope out, I haven't seen many) I'm saying you shouldn't need a "gay movie" for the movie to have gay characters when it's reflecting reality . Queer people exist, the same way you wouldn't just include women in a chick-flick because it's a "girl's " and you would include them everywhere because you are mimicking reality up to a certain point. If I tell a writer to think of a "tall" character for example, their default shouldn't be white hetero male every time. They should be allowed to be black, women, asian, disabled, queer, etc. The same way if I tell you think of a dog you can imagine multiple breeds and not just retriever I guess

[@krissp8712]

​@@Zeverinsenthat seems pretty arbitrary and like James mention at the start, easy for a repressive person to use against queer inclusion. You're absolutely right that centuries _affect_ representation, but it just shouldn't be used prescriptively.

[@lugergre]

There's a subtle fallacy in "proportional representation," too. If the argument is that (for the sake of argument) 10% of people are some form of LGBT+, then the reasonable conclusion is not that 10% of media should contain LGBT+ characters, but instead that 10% of *all characters in all media* should be LGBT+. This means that the majority of media that contains at least 7 characters (yes, I did the math) should contain at least one LGBT+ character. A series or franchise with a sprawling cast of 100 characters should expect to have 10 of them as some form of LGBT+.

[@dragonarrow5525]

You touched on it at the end of your video, but my immediate answer to the title was "when everyone shuts up about it". By this I mean when minorities no longer feel they need more representation and the people who hate them no longer complain about it.

[@Zeverinsen]

As a bisexual, I've just come to think that explicitly naming a characters queer or not, to be a bit unnecessary at times. Telling a good story and letting it unfold is a much more important thing, because not every story is romantic, and if the character eventually falls in love with someone, that could be *anybody.* Also, I'd like to add that not every story _needs_ romance, and I wish Hollywood would make more movies about trust and friendship, instead of shoehorning fake/unnecessary romance into stories that don't need them (Looking at you Hobbit series). Just because Elsa in Frozen doesn't have a partner, that doesn't make her gay, straight or ace, she's just a girl. She could have any sexuality, and I think that should be OK. It shouldn't _have_ to be explicitly confirmed or denied IMO, especially in children's media. I think by being so adamant that we need to make characters gay or straight in any setting, we don't let them explore the concept of romance and sexuality in a natural way, because we have already forced them into a box before we let their story unfold. The way they handled it in "But I'm a cheerleader" is something I liked a lot about the movie. Of course the writers had already decided where she would end up, but instead of explicitly saying "she is gay" from the start and even though the story is about her sexuality, being sent to the camp and meeting everyone there meant she had to actually ponder the question and figure it out for herself. It could have had any number of outcomes, but for her it was discovering that she was indeed gay. Even in a story about a character's sexuality, that doesn't have to be _everything_ they are, and that's the crux of my problem with sexuality in media. They are so quick to make romance the key focus and/or make a character's sexuality be the end all be all of who they are, even where it means nothing at all. In movies like The Avengers where the literal fate of the universe is at stake, it makes sense that you'll have less time to sit around and think about their sexuality, and they really only address romantic relationships that are established in other movies outside that franchise (Think Iron Man and Captain America), while in Scooby Doo it makes much more sense that Velma can become infatuated with a girl and they have time to show it, even if it isn't explicitly said. I also don't appreciate that people want to squash this type of natural development by calling it "queer baiting" if characters don't explicitly come out or don't start dating the same-sex love interest immediately, *_because that's real life._* I didn't feel the need to "come out" about anything, I just lived my life as a person, and I think it is unfair that we expect any differently from people just because they're not straight. I am grateful that my mom wouldn't object to me bringing home whatever gender partner, she just cares about how they treat people. I think we should afford queer people this luxury in media as well. Even with historical characters like Alan Turing, I think we sometimes should let their biggest moments shine, and let the tragic part of their story be a smaller part of what is being told. The main plot in "The Imitation Game" wasn't about Turing's sexuality, but about his contributions to history, and though his inevitable demise was a necessary part of that story's ending, I'm glad they didn't make that the main focus. You could do that with a different movie or documentary. Sexuality doesn't always have to be at the center of a queer person's story, and stories about queer people don't *_always_* have to be about queer hardship or despair! _But I'm a cheerleader_ shows us how you can make a fun queer story aimed at queer people, while _Moonlight_ is an excellent representation of what a queer story can look like in a way that is relatable to everyone, and _Monster_ is an amazing real life story where the protagonist just happens to be queer. I think we can do representation with widespread relatability, and I think we can do it well, but there needs to be room for variety.

[@deannawoolfolk4562]

I honestly want to give you a standing ovation for this whole post! For someone who just personally hates labels, THIS speaks to me the most.

[@Zeverinsen]

@@deannawoolfolk4562 Honestly, this is just what I want to see in my media, but I am a fan of well written plots and characters with nuance. I don't really like romantic comedies and such, because it usually offers so little substance, even when they clearly could. It's no shocker that I'm a fan of psychological thrillers then, but I wish they'd put some of the effort that is necessary to make a good thriller, into other types of movies as well. And I think that good writing and direction in itself could make any story good, regardless of the protagonist. That being said, I think we can all acknowledge that many people want to see more diversity in media, but if we want it to have a normalising effect, *it has to be good.* If you are "different", everything about you will be scrutinised to a different degree, and the public requires more than what is adequate for what they perceive as "normal", in order to be convinced that what is "different" can be accepted. That's just the harsh truth, but also something media should use to its advantage. They have a golden opportunity to make great films about topics that can tell a new story and show their audience a new perspective. *People like that stuff and will pay for it!* *_But it has to be good._* In all honesty, I think the "Write them like a straight man, and then adapt"-strategy might be the best way to get the ball rolling today. _Imagine if they had written Captain Marvel like they did Captain America? I would've probably actually liked the movies then..._

[@achimdemus-holzhaeuser1233]

@@Zeverinsen I am with you. Not every story has to include a love interest. In equal meassure I think if the story is good the gender of the lovers does not matter. Since James brought up Star Trek .. I thought the Queer Couple was the best thing of the whole show, because those two were the only ones who conveid sincere emotion for each other and interested in the core concept of older Star Trek Series while the rest of the cast was always arguing and shouting and being the worst Star that has ever Trekked. Lesbian Carry was also great (" I am not okay with that" )

[@breckinmeyerstan1145]

I know this comments 'old', but about the queerbaiting... I think if and how 'queerbaiting' exists is heavily reliant on the context of the media and how the authors/actors/showrunners go about it. Because in a context where both characters are explicitly queer it is not 'queerbaiting', it is the age-old 'will they, won't they' trope. This trope exist for straight people too and sometimes also doesn't end in romance. 'Is the story arc finished?' is another important question to ask. Like Buck's storyline from ABC's 9-1-1. While running on FOX, there were complains about 'queerbaiting' because, in the earlier seasons, Buck got into, let's say, queer adjacent situations. Now running on ABC, Buck's arc involved him realizing he's queer in his 30's. If that was always the intention and FOX executives intervened for some reason or they finally 'caved' is irrelevant, Buck is explicitly queer, even if it took him nearly seven seasons. And that's okay because his arc didn't just revolve around his sexuality, there were other things going on. If we look at shows like 'Teen Wolf', classic MTV/CW shows with big fandoms and lots of shipping, the waters get muddier. The video of Dylan O'Brien and Tyler Hoechlin cuddling on a ship to get votes for the 'Teen Choice Awards' from all the Sterek shippers is questionable at best, 'queerbaiting' at worst. 'Will they, won't they' already exist and if show runners want to have same-sex pairings fall into that category, then it is fine. But leaning heavily into a joke, dropping hints in interviews and the show, going 'who knows?', only for them to turn around and go 'Gay? Queer? You're crazy I never said that!' is mind-boggling. I always tell people they should think of one of the big romance movies like 'Titanic'. If Jack and Rose would have stayed friends, would you have been satisfied? Excluding them *ahem* procreating, what if Rose didn't fall in love with Jack but rather saw a friend and confidant, a man who sees her for more than just a thing to manhandle, a man with whom she could let loose and have fun? What if Jack didn't fall in love with Rose, but rather found his muse, the woman who would spark his creativity? And when people started complaining, James Cameron went 'Romance? What are you talking about, they're both gay.' Would you have felt stupid or lied to? Not romantically involved and not queer are two different things, that's why I think 'queerbaiting' is such a hot topic. Having characters not end up together is fine. Having characters not end up being queer is fine. But alluding and dropping hints in the show/media and interwievs and at fan meets and then having no conclusion in any way, ranging from a character reflecting on their sexuality or relationships to them coming out, is just not satisfying storytelling. To then try to basically gaslight the queer audience because, let's be real, to most straight people characters are by default straight, not bi, that in my opinion THAT is queerbaiting.

[@justheretocommentokdontwan685]

good comment

[@LiiiiiiMa]

"The percentage of queer-inclusive media is at a record high" (cries in aromantic/asexual) Thank you for pointing out the inequality of the current representation numbers. Yes, we are lucky to have as much lgbtiqa* rep as we do. But not all rep moves at the same pace. While certain people within the spectrum have at least a wide buffet of various quality rep to choose from at this point, some others have little to nothing. In other words, PLEASE GIVE ME SOME ACTUAL CANON AROMANTIC/ASEXUAL SPECTRUM REP please its been LONG ENOUGH no more hint hint, no more implications, I want to hear the actual words come out of a characters mouth, so it can't be obscured or denied.

[@ChrisDragon531]

YES!

[@GACHAShadow-cb5kf]

Yes! I completely agree! We need more representation!

[@mirandamullet8334]

when being on a program and nobody noticing or complaining about the the minority traits occurs and you have the proper actor representation, then it will truly be enough.

[@wolftitanreading5308]

So never enough cause your idea is stupid

[@holgerlarsson7531]

Genius video! I’m not part of the LGBTQ+ but I still deeply appreciate this. It really should be obvious to everyone why good representation is needed and what that would look like, and you did a great job of explaining that!

[@Princess_Feona]

There’s a brutally stereotypical character in That 90s Show. He exudes the quality of filling a checkbox. There are several characters in Brooklyn 99. I barely even notice because I’m too busy laughing and loving the characters. We need less of the first and much more of the second but Hollywood seems rarely capable of delivering that. It’s much easier to check a box than to write a good character. Even when the captain and his husband are together, when I’m not busy laughing because they are hilarious, all I am is noticing a committed loving relationship. The fact that it’s between two men hardly registers. That’s kind of how it is in real life too.

[@rennydesu]

Hollywood and blockbuster movies are also international. The reason why Disney is so sneaky with their queen representation is because of simple politics. Queen representation is often banned in many high priority consumer countries such as China which is one of the largest. Honestly, that is the biggest hurdle. I dont think anyone will really bat an eye if marvel released a full fledged movie of a gay superhero that kisses his boyfriend after an epic battle... but good luck trying to censor all that for the Chinese release.

[@rawonions8827]

I watched both your mean girls video and this one back to back and I just want to say that you are criminally underrated. By the first minute of your Mean Girls video, your editing and narration delivery had me hooked. By far some of the best content out there, and equally as insightful.

[@leavemealone802]

Good representation, is the ones where is all mixed together, and more variety is shown. We need to have a equally variety of characters and story. If we have a story with a straight protagonist, we need one story with a different lgbtq protagonist: one with a gay protagonist, a lesbian, bisexual, ace protagonist, and etc. If the main couple of the story is a girlxgirl pair, we need a story where the main pair is a malexmale, another when the characters is ace, another when they are pansexual, bisexual. I mostly watch cartoons, and as much as I love what we got, I am already tired of seeing just lesbians getting the protagonist spotlight. I want to see male gay characters, non binaries, ace/aro characters being the protagonist of the story. I do get why we see more the letter L of LGBTQ+ as the focus of cartoonstories, this videos really putted things in perspective for me, but I think is time for us to let the other letters being explored. And I life action midia should be the same. Nobody want force representation. Is cheap and is like it was made without any care put into it (looking at you Voltron and HGS), but we need note variety even on LGBTQ+ centred midia

[@deadman746]

It would be a lot better to focus on quality of representation and leave quantity to good writing.

[@ghosty8193]

LGBT people technically have a lot of representation, but a small minority of it is actually good. And the issue is with companies like Disney who have a 'first canon out lgbt character' every movie. I would love a lesbian or trans or whatever main character in a show or movie, but I don't trust the 'people' to do it justice.

[@Zeverinsen]

Most people don't care about the sexuality or gender of a character, but they do care about the quality of the writing. Nobody complained about Charlize Theron in Monster, because that movie was amazing! It was a story where the protagonist just happened to also be gay, but it was first and foremost an intriguing thriller. _That's the kind of representation I want to see._

[@AdvocateSpirit]

Relatability is just not the only way to enjoy a story, it shouldn't even be the main way. A great way to enjoy a story is for entertainment or inspiration, not just relations

[@sevencats4964]

small comment - the a stands for both asexual and aromantic :) i'm not surprised it's not as commonly known since the aro community struggles a lot with visibility, so i figured i'd mention it 😅

[@SkyeID]

Also stands for Agender.

[@onewomanarmy6451]

I am so glad I found this channel! There are so many things in this video that I've wanted to say to people but I can never find the words. Thank you for this video, now I'm off watching everything else on this channel.

[@randyparker2134]

Okay, first off, comparing the number of FILMs that have LGBTQ characters with the number of PEOPLE in the world is apples to oranges. A film almost always has more than one character in them, usually many to hundreds. The percentage of CHARACTERS would be the valid comparison. I'm not hardcore about the representation stuff, but this "logic" in a use of statistics bugged me way more. EDIT - which I see was addressed a while later.

[@con.bel666]

beavis hahaha !

[@ZZTopRockman]

The title scared me omg. This is wonderful!

[@Arminius420]

This is going to get even worse all of the pandering and butt kissing its so tacky.

[@thelordconstantine1464]

One of the problems I see people may have with the, "making the percentage stop mattering" (15:08) is that they may see it not in a deliberate, "gay bad" manner, but not wanting to support an agenda of making people what they aren't. More gay people, less children, you've heard it I'm sure. This group of people I wouldn't know the size of or how much they matter, of course. Rephrasing what I said to hopefully better encompass my point, that some people not wanting no gay people but rather to not "create" gay people, and rationalize what should be appropriate "right" representation before being out of hand and forced. They don't want to support or be okay with an agenda they perceive as rising not due to representation but as perversion. There is some of that, but as I watch this I see that that argument applies to the "bad" audience in a way, the bad representation (inappropriate school books for ex.) more than the authentic representation. Gay people aren't a problem, but there shouldn't be media tricking people into being queer I would agree, only moving what is already there. For whatever reason it is.

[@JamesWoodall]

It is impossible to trick somebody into being queer.

[@Random_Potterhead_42]

Honestly, just don’t pretend like we don’t exist and don’t say we’re wrong for existing and that’s good enough for me Acknowledge that we exist and have characters who are a member of our community We don’t have to have the main relationship be an LGBTQIPA relationship. Just acknowledge we’re here and don’t say we’re wrong.

[@JamesWoodall]

I have included the pansexual flag in the video. This is one reason why I prefer the term 'queer' over the acronym because I feel it's more inclusive (though I recognise there're are problems with that term too). I will always strive to use the most appropriate and inclusive language I can. The biggest problem I had while writing this video was trying to discuss very complicated subjects in simple, concise terms.

[@Random_Potterhead_42]

@@JamesWoodall oh sorry that’s a pet peeve of mine but thank you for even saying most of the name Most people say LGBTQ or even just LGBT and leave it at that Thank you for using the second half (I’m Demi, Pan, and Omni so I usually just use the pan flag)

[@rolilomi]

this is an absolutely wonderful video with a great argument but i also wanted to mention how much i love the animations you do for your inforgraphics it makes the video so charming to watch!!

[@ZalthorAndNoggin]

A very good piece of analysis. Well done!

[@Mr_Majesty2112]

I just binged your videos, you gotta make more stuff, This is amazing and extremely well thought out...👌✌

[@giuliacoene2445]

What a great video! Super clear, nice and informative. This video absolutely deserves to BLOW UP!!! Also I love this kind of pride month content, happy pride month to you :) Hope we soon reach a world where representation is automatic

[@illyrio]

Thank you for this video. I hope it will allow me to be more clever in my character writing.

[@jemusandran1575]

I mean, it's annoying because as with most things, reoresentation for minorities in media being shit is just an extension of structural inequality. But, I think that art holds more power and influence than people think it does, and pushing for more, better representation can at least potentially act as a catalyst for strides towards equality in general.

[@drunkonlife.]

Amazing video!! Thank you for publishing this 🤍

[@silentsaturn7604]

You make such a good point of there being so few examples, where a show is exclusively/predominantly about LGBTQ+ characters. Most shows with them in it, still have the straight lead.

[@jenniferhanses]

I think it's a complicated topic made worse at the moment by studio moves to try to represent everyone in everything. And I think THAT is what is making people more vocal about less GLBT rep. For example, there was the Dr. Who holiday specials that decided to take a break from world ending spacefaring adventures to insert a lecture about pronouns, a feat that was then repeated in a second episode. It did not provide any story benefit, and drew the story to a halt for no good reason. Ruining the pace of a story can occur at any point due to bad writing, but BECAUSE the hiccup was GLBT rep, GLBT rep then gets blamed for being someplace that it was not necessary. (The show then followed that up with how men, even men who have been women, don't understand certain concepts and are kind of idiots because of it, and you know, despite being a feminist, I could have done without that bit of representation. Thank you for making one of the most interesting and liked female characters look like a giant A-hole, show.). When you try to represent everyone in everything, it can be too much weight for a story to hold. Your last example, Moonlight, probably is a good example of that focus. It doesn't sound like there were people banging on the doors yelling about how it doesn't represent the Asian experience or the deaf experience or even the female experience. It got to be a well crafted tale from beginning to end. One of my favorite series of late has been Gentleman Jack, which is based on the diaries of a lesbian business woman and landowner in 1830s England. It focuses mainly on the unconventional protagonist and how she managed in high society and business despite being a woman and inclined to be butch in her dress and manner. It include plenty on her personal search for a woman to share her life with and how none of them stay because of the times they live in, and how she refuses to change despite it all. I find it to be a very relatable story despite being a straight woman, and I wish HBO had given them funding for a 3rd season. Short limited series, movies, and singleton novels benefit from focusing on whatever story they intend to tell without being asked to be everything to everyone. There's just not enough room to fit everything. Long running TV shows and book series benefit more from diversity within the shows themselves. Brooklyn 99, for example, uses diverse sexualities and races to provide more plothooks for their characters. And while I was railing against Dr. Who a second ago, it, too benefits from this. The issue there was more trying to include and feature everyone all at once in just one episode. It's sort of how Captain Holt is always a gay black man. And sometimes he has episodes on being gay or being black or being gay AND black. And sometimes he's just busy being a police captain because neither gayness nor blackness is having and immediate impact on the story. He doesn't need to go around reminding people of these facts when they're not particularly relevant to, say, the plot of his underlings stealing his watch as a Halloween prank challenge in which he ultimately outwits them, proving he's a great fit as leader of our motley crew. Anyway, got slightly off track, but I suppose my point would be a lot of the push back is coming because of poor writing that appears to be the result of trying to make every product everything to everyone. And so it appears that DEI movements are to blame rather than studios and show runners not being capable and allowed to balance DEI with the considerations of writing and telling a good, clear story. Some shows like Fallout that just released this year seem to be doing a decent job of balancing DEI initiatives. Other shows like Dr. Who are not managing quite so well.

[@GACHAShadow-cb5kf]

I think one mistake people usually make when it comes to representation in media is they make being gay, for example, their entire personality rather than making that just one part of their identity. There's so much more to people than their gender and sexuality.

[@andrewgilbert5680]

I almost never commot on youtube videos, this is probably my 2nd comment ever, but I really appreciate videos like this that point out flaws in common arguments and how media still has improvements to make on how queer people are represented.

[@jae2249]

I remember a time when gender and sexuality relationships were fine. They were by no means perfect but they were fine. It was about 10-15 years ago. Nobody cared if you were LGBT or not. Nobody cared if you knew they were LGBT or not. People simply got on with their lives. Yesterday, I went to a huge mall in a major city and the entire mall had been spattered with rainbows, the trans one and the MAPs one (that’s right the one for kids!). Inside the mall there were LGBT themed kids events where kids would chase stickers to get to some propaganda pieces about how straight people persecuted LGBT people. Outside there was also a HUGE drag show. Now like it or not this is an adult concept. There are trans Cabernet clubs in my city. They require proof of age to enter. I know because I’ve been there with friends. The show was relatively harmless until the strobe lights came on when me and many others left the room. The same kinds of things were on display at the drag event outside the mall. very open and zero age restrictions. Many kids in the tent. Today George Soros is throwing so much money at very loud LGBT activists and this is leading to an abundance of representation for LGBT and LGBT related causes. Today, I would argue that sexuality and race issues are back at bling point. With so many people politically charged on this issue it’s very difficult to remain neutral anymore. I LITERALLY DON’T GIVE 2 F*CKS who you have sex with. Just leave me the hell alone. That’s all I ask. We need to go back to the days were unintentionally misgendering didn’t lead to a city-wide riot.

[@jdellabeat6245]

A really good video. I always expect great videos from you. It's also telling to me, at least, that what most LBGTQIA+ representation that people always refer to is the West. Whenever people cry about us, queer folk, having enough representation. I always stop to wonder, "Do you know what SEA queers experience? What about the different culture contexts and culture that someone living in East, South East, South, and Central Asia? Why is it often I see conflict between two distinct queer cultures." East and West respectively. Hell, I got into an argument with a fellow Filipino trans-lesbian online just because the word 'bayot' has often be used as pejorative by straight folks to mock, but I didn't, at the time, understand was that word had another context that had deep roots with our native tribal culture and we should start reclaim it. But, alas. I was too blinded. Looking back at it, I wished I could have been more introspective and sometimes be more forthcoming about my Western - influenced bias and learn more from what my own culture has to say. Look, I'm not perfect. But, whenever people say queer experiences are "over-represented", I look back at my ignorance, even as a 23- something pansexual Filipino man, I sigh "Yeah, it's not enough. We still have a lot way to go". Happy Pride to all of you, lovely folks reading.

[@zyuwslays]

That is beautifully written and the point is well made thank you so much for this content we need it:)

[@Mallow-568]

Rare as hell I ever comment, all compliments and/or negativity are lost in the sea that is the comments section anyways, but this is a good ass video. It's so rare to hear a well worded concise point about much any more, and it's always great to find a really well made small passionate video on anything.

[@kristenhahnk8435]

This vid made me sub! You deserve so many more views and subs holy cow

[@myleswelnetz6700]

If it’s in EVERY form of media.

[@hsin-jochangvivas5356]

My god i'm really a geek, for half a minute i thought the video was about how much more color/dynamic range do we need in film and digital media in general

[@cookiemocher388]

Something I noticed is arguably "over represented" are conjoined twins, I've never met conjoined twins in my life, but I've seen plenty of fictional characters that are conjoined, most of the ones I remember are comic relief characters like the dragons from Quest for Camelot, or scary characters like the Olm twins in Amphibia. That representation is fascinating considering how about half of conjoined twins die before the age of one, yet we have so many characters like this, humans are utterly fascinated by the idea.

[@evamordacq3650]

Amazone video, it should be shown in schools. Congrats !

[@lemonofcake]

So glad Orange is the New Black was featured (even for a second) I really love that show but I don’t see anyone talk about it

[@lexirosereese6951]

absolutely amazing video. the editing, the message, everything!!

[@jae2249]

“Queer action hero” Could you imagine! I’d watch that for the comedy value alone.

[@Scerttle]

Up until recently I considered myself straight until I realised I was ace and then I realised I was actually demi-pan. If you've never had cause to question your sexuality you're gonna say you're the "default"... even if you're not. That's another thing that muddies statistics.

[@an-zw4ml]

This was excellent.

[@wasted_youth3081]

Great video once again! Can you please made a video about Killing Eve? Specifically how the ending ruined everything that made it great. Thank you! Always looking forward to your amazing vids!

[@seeleunit2000]

Thank you ! You just said what I have been saying, though much more articulately for a long time.

[@seanvogt221]

0:02 - That is one of the coolest sounds I ever heard.

[@leonarddement3432]

It's amazing that all these LGBT shows are only online. Most shows on traditional television is not all the time. It's in shows now but not everywhere in it. The show does not circle around being gay or lesbian or whatever

[@seaangel1430]

The background music soungs like something straight out of terraria

[@lauraschwartz1157]

Well said!

[@Pedro-nj8ff]

You are so incredibly talented and perfectionist I absolutely love your videos

[@Logan-dn6uv]

It is important to represent sexuality well to delve deeper into the topic

[@henriquebastosbernardoni3630]

An excellent video as always! The level of production always marvels me. I'm quite shocked this channel doesn't have more subscribers.

[@tokublwhovian]

As a gay/asexual man in his late 20s and who hates mostly british/american media, Asian BL does queer representation better. While not always correct, there is effort put in here and there.

[@GeoMusic99]

I love how you explain your thoughts and how easy it is to follow. On the topic of queer representation in films: I often think about how gay characters are portayed by straight actors and how gay actors have in the past portayed straight characters. I would love to know your opinion on that since a lot of times straight actors recieve major backlash for playing gay characters. What do you think about this?

[@SysterYster]

I think, generally speaking, everyone should be represented. But maybe not in every single kind of movie. Like, if you're making a historical movie from medieval Europe, for example, there wouldn't be many black people there. And if you make a movie about Zimbabwe you wouldn't find many whites there. And depending on the time-period (and whether it's fiction or historical), people may or may not have been able to openly show that they're gay/queer/etc, because of social stigma and rules etc. (That, however, could in itself be the focus for a movie, of course). But whatever movies they make, they should focus on making believable characters, and good plots. Many, I feel are just dumped in there, without thought or good characterization which leads to poor quality. And that's probably a reason many people are mad/hateful about this. Same with female leads. If they are poorly made, people will hate them, and think it's because they're female when in truth, it's because the character and/or plot was bad. So, they need to stop checking boxes, and focus on making good believable characters and stories where the lgbtq+ black/asian/whites/other, male/female characters fit in. Like, don't make a realistic, normal-world movie where a woman will throw guys around like they weigh nothing and every guy is an idiot. Instead, make the woman use other ways to win, and make sure the men are also good at stuff or it just looks bad. (Compare Ghostbusters, old and new. Almost all male cast with one woman on the team + the love interest VS all female team with one idiot man. Why make the man an idiot? At least in the old movie, the women weren't dumb.)

[@megagamer8705]

i can t believe you showed community as not having good gay representation! advanced gay was a very good episode specifically about that, and while the deans character can seem a little mean to queer folks, the gay dean episode in s6 is also amazing

[@alexjames7144]

I think the main issue is that if we say only 1/10 stories should have queer people we're massively underplaying queer representation unless that one story is full of exclusively queer people. A story with no queer people in it at all is unproportional. Everyone knows at least one queer person in their life, everyone meets queer people randomly when they just go about their life. Families, groups of friends, colleagues, queer people are just everywhere in everyone's lives. You can't pretend they don't exist in real life. So any piece of media where you could watch it and pretend that queer people don't exist, is inherently not proportionate. Queer people exist in a way that can't be ignored in real life. Media that allows ignorance of queer people is therefore inherently actively suppressing and covering up queerness.

[@gmr4life884]

You're making it sound like you value what people are in a story above having a good story to begin with.

[@alexjames7144]

@@gmr4life884 Literally nowhere did I say that. Learn to read.

[@Crust_Crease]

Transgender, non-binary and asexuality. If you don't know what any of those mean I recommend looking them up. It might just help you realize something about yourself or people you know that you haven't been able to put to words or accurately identify. After all It can't hurt to know more can it?

[@JR-kj2px]

People should also be more educated on intersex people, it would really help a lot because it's a biological condition and it can be a first step to understand that nature isn't as binary as we think

[@chance2413]

@@JR-kj2px Why should we? Im 36 and Ive never met a transgender person in my life.

[@Ircy2012]

@@chance2413 Or you did and they didn't feel safe telling you.

[@sangriad.938]

@JR It's up to people if they wanna be educated on it or not.

[@wombat4583]

@@chance2413 Intersex and transgender are two very different things, and some people are intersex who only actually find out later in life. I think the comment was more of 'here's an introductory topic as to why sex isn't as easily explained as most believe'. There's actually a lot more that goes into sex than the basic x and y chromosome people associate with 'definitive sex'. Edit: I wanted to add that while you may not be personally close to a transgender person there's a good chance you've come across them in your daily life. It's not like people go around announcing it to everyone much like there's probably a bunch of personal things about yourself you don't tell random strangers that they would probably never assume.

[@GeeEee75]

Another aspect of queer representation is that there needs to be openly LGBTQ+ actors in starring roles, playing a diversity of characters.

[@thomasrodwell563]

This has nothing to do with LGBT representation but a forms a similar premise - I've noticed for a while now that UK television series use many many black British actors (usually half the main cast usually) despite the black British population only forming 4% of British population. Meanwhile Asian Brits (9% population) were rarely cast. I wondered why this was but then remembered it's probably because African Brits complain about underrepresentation more than Asian Brits Seems that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. The more a community complains about underrepresentation, the more representation it receives. If you want more media attention, just complain.

[@Seruzul]

Just say you dislike black people.

[@mksiblings7476]

Impeccable video, so much insight and nuance into an argument I've always assumed to know the answer to. Every point you made was perfect, the visuals were great, and nothing was lingered on too long. I've never seen a video I've wanted to show to the straight people in my life more!

[@michalecatsonugw6379]

Alright can someone tell me where that scene at 15:21 with the bearded dude and the guy in the bed is from? I have to know how that scene came to be.

[@JamesWoodall]

It's Our Flag Means Death. 😅

[@JstJaybeingJay]

Man I don't watch movies to learn something I would rather be entertained first... cause that's what I paid for.

[@babysleepysheepyrainbow]

I learned an important lesson during the protests and riots of 2020. When the majority tells you "you've won, don't bother, stop fighting" you fight have to harder.

[@mialeroux2943]

Well I see the goal of representation is to normalize minorities to be treated in an equal manner, and that is not reality yet. So, we still need more representation. That's my very condensed opinion.

[@Jillgamesh]

What a great and thought provoking video! What advice would you give a heterosexual director/writer in Hollywood if they chose to make a queer story? I ask this because, as a woman, I have found that a large portion of male writers don't really how to write good female characters, so I wonder if this also translates into the queer community.

[@vinceuy7631]

A must watch. Happy pride, James.

[@KrislLeon]

Part of this really reminds me of when i worked for Bernie Sanders. I would talk to constituents who planned to vote for Warren because "we need a woman president", and they would ask why i wouldn't support Warren, if i claimed to be a feminist. And the answer was pretty simple. Because Warren would give us a woman president, but Sanders would better help us create a society in which it wouldn't matter if the president was a woman, where misogyny would be better combatted because he could see past the allure of identity politics.

[@simplestuniverse]

The percentage rhetoric only makes sense if every movie only featured only one character, lmao. 20% of movies featuring queer characters does not equal 20% of all movie characters being queer. If you have a movie cast of 20 people you'd statistically expect at least one of them to be queer in every movie.

[@jayviescas7703]

Still love Harvey Fiersteins Torch Song Trilogy both the play and the movie, in particular the fight Arnold and his mother are having over his decision to adopt David, "Ma: ... You haven't spoken a sentence since I got here without the word "Gay" in it. Arnold: Because that's what I am. Ma: If that were all you could leave it in there [points towards bedroom] where it belongs; in private. No, you're obsessed by it. You're not happy unless everyone is talking about it... Arnold: [bordering on hysteria] I don't know what to say to you. I really don't. I'm not trying to throw it in your face but it is what I am and it's not just a matter of who I sleep with. [crossing to her] Ma, try to imagine the world the other way around. {{{Imagine that every movie, book, magazine, T.V. show, newspaper, commercial, billboard told you that you should be homosexual. But you know you're not and you know that for you this is right...}}}" Kind of hits home with this discussion, doesn't it?

[@razordad7546]

I feel like, your completely right. But at the same there should be a time to appreciate how far we’ve come in media. Plus yeah the film statistics, don’t count for television, tv specials, indie films, shorts, and online entertainment.

[@Acorn905]

15:30 *Dang that hit hard.*

[@KrytoRift]

It's interesting that you find the counter argument as your "enemy". That says more about you than your "enemies" 🙄

[@Princess_Feona]

Well let’s see, we had Bro’s. That was certainly a financial success so I suppose the studio should soon follow suit.

[@Nozverah2]

That's a joke right?

[@Princess_Feona]

Jokes are funny. I don’t think anybody laughed when they read that. Let’s call it a sad statement of irony.

[@vadimbanner2024]

WTF 😂, Bros was a financial disaster, not to mention the director told white people not to go see the film

[@Princess_Feona]

Please read the comment I made above your and go look up “irony”

[@ishu9074]

It always bugged me when people say that there are too many LGBT people in media, but could never point out why (probably because I'm not really good with words/debate). Thanks to your video, I understand why & even learnt some new stuff! Thanks! If there was one thing I would add to your video, it'd be french subtitles so I could show this to people

[@qwerkybunny]

More LGBTQ+ representation is forced than it is spread out over many episodes which is sadly the main problem I see with a lot of LGBTQ+ shows and movies.

[@ehxjsjd4553]

Yeah. They'll have one episode that is heavily queer, and then forget about for the rest of the entire show. I hate it when that happens.

[@justheretocommentokdontwan685]

i don't have a problem with it being in lgbtq+ shows as much as i do shows for a general audience where it is not established or needed but put in for the sake of being progressive

[@Princess_Feona]

For the record, Gene Roddenberry wanted to have a gay crewmember but they were is no way he was going to get that in at the time. You pick your battles.

[@anthonydepasquale6672]

With all due respect this just comes off as hypocritical greed and self importance

[@ehxjsjd4553]

Can you Elaborat?

[@anthonydepasquale6672]

⁠@@ehxjsjd4553Thanks for answering me tolerantly and kindly, I wasn’t sure how people would react to my take that wasn’t probably going to be very popular but you’re a sign that there’s still people out there who want to have a friendly discussion and hear one another out. What I had meant was that when he mentions that stories can have inclusion but still include less diverse along with more diverse character types I wonder why the inverse can’t be true. For example, if a theater has 70% cat owners and 30% dog owners you can’t expect everyone to just relate to the less popular pet in the group without slowly introducing them to the charm of having a dog, as time goes on the majority will slowly learn, it will be less drastic and hostile in the eyes of people who may not understand what they do not know. If you’re a minority but you’re forcing a majority to relate to you it only creates animosity where you’re looking to promote unity.

[@anthonydepasquale6672]

Another point I found to disagree with was the comment James made about Trolls and Robots and comparing them to LGBT characters. Trolls and Robots are used for aesthetics, could you say C-3PO was or wasn’t LGBT? Or if Groot was or wasn’t attracted to his same gender (However Flora-Colossi gender works)? That was just a very confusing comment to me.

[@anthonydepasquale6672]

To illustrate another point James states that there’s a “hunger” for LGBT material but media like Batgirl, Bros, Lightyear and Strange World all highly refute that. If studios come out with 1 LGBT movie for every other movie they make they stand to lose boatloads of money from people who just don’t care about tolerance or acceptance may not be part of their culture or religion yet. Studios are doing incredible things for the LGBT community, why can’t you be happy with how far you’ve come before whining why you can’t cut corners to get there faster?

[@ehxjsjd4553]

@@anthonydepasquale6672 I don't think he was saying you have to relate to any specific type of character, but you are able to. It's not impossible to relate to a LGBTQ character, as it's not impossible that I can relate to a straight character. I think you are over thinking a lot of it. And you seem like an understanding person, so I'll give you a simple reason for more LGBTQ characters. I'm gay, and I spend hours looking for a good movie to watch that I like the story of. Most stories are all the same, it's all just a copy and paste of "love Simon" or the main characters parents are homophobic. It's hard to find something different. But with more and more films coming out with LGBTQ stories, it's easier for people like me to find variety. Also, if someone wants to watch something without any LGBTQ people, there is planty out there, and plenty more to come. It's not like from here on out everything will have LGBTQ characters in it.

[@chynnaurl]

It is because a lot of these companies don't want to get canceled on social media. So, they will do too much by including the LGBTIQQ community in their advertisements, so they don't lose out on any viewers/money when in reality it's given "trying to seem like they care when really it's all about a $ bill at the end of the day."

[@anastasia9202]

great vid!!

[@fucin]

I think the how much is a stupid thought to begin with its the quality of the representation that matters most Im hispanic, the amount of cinco de mayo, dia de los muertos, and sassy domineering latina types of representation is countless and I have never once ever felt any familiarity with any of these easy to digest marketable tropes the grandma in coco was the ONLY familiar character in that movie besides el santo Ive felt more representation in better call saul and breaking bads villains than I have in any of that shit but counting the number of diversity picks is whats getting the focus in media, I really dont give a shit if a character is gay or not, if theyre kissing on screen or not, if theyre non-white, etc, I care about good fucking characters in a story not the representation id rather watch an all white all straight cast of incredible actors with impeccable writing over a completely diverse cast with shitty generic tropes and by the numbers writing the fact that media is willing to subvert quality for diversity is the point most of these "over representation" arguments are trying to make for every badass "hes gay and hes a good character" like isaak sirko there are 10 times the amount of generic "hes gay and on screen" characters

[@mariapilarnovoa8605]

Love the video, love the editing! I'm gonna check your other videos 🌈❤️✨

[@CherryDad]

Finally got around to watching this 🙏 beautiful work as usual. Happy pride! There's a bit of texture to this conversation I think about a lot as an animation enthusiast, and what representation you might be exposed to depending on your medium preferences. Tending towards the animated TV shows that I do, where great strides have been made in recent years, I personally have not felt that representation and it's weighed on me a bit. That being said I'm very excited for Hamish Steele's "Dead End: Paranormal Park" which comes out in less than a week.

[@emilythe5th]

Very interesting video

[@darksunrise957]

I haven't finished watching the video, but a thought has dawned on me: Let's say 5% (since it's used offhand in the video) of the population is LGBTQ+; then 5% of the characters in any movie or show should be LGBTQ+, right? So any media that has 20 or more people is statistically almost guaranteed to have at least 1 LGBTQ+ person in it. And since almost every movie ever has more than 20 people in it, almost every single movie in should have LGBTQ+ representation, even if it's not a main story point.

[@gidi3250]

15:06 that's just stupid, a person should get the job because they are qualified and can do their job, not because of their gender, skin colour, sexuality or political and ideological views that's how you get a nation that's like South Africa falling apart at it's seems, and as for the gay rep, if it is overly pushed, the other non gay will get angry and visa versa, gays will get angry if the the other side is being pushed to hard, this results in an overflow of mid to poor movies with little to no decent representation of ether side of the argument/beliefs, rather quality should be strived for, and it should be relevant, not just randomly inserted like some shows have done where they suddenly inserted political, ideological or sexual ideas and tried to play it of as not that big of a deal when it broke the flow and now stands out, ex. Military film, suddenly "oh hey here's a gay guy" now what does the film bring it back in? Keep it relevent or just throw it in for a box check and never touch it, that can all pretty quickly go bad, and this seemingly happens often as the media all seems to target box ticking rather than actual representing people, their is little to no input form people of these groups, or their is too much and it heavily affects the story like what happend to the remake of Charlie's angels, (turns out it's hard to make a profit of you alienate the majority of the population and tell them not to watch your film) a big problem I have seen personally is when films push others away, change character skin colour and sexuality to check these boxes and while doing this pushing another community away, the Hollywood hate of white red heads have made this pretty obvious, basically all red heads from dc and marvel have been turned into people of colour, gay or had their gender swapped for no other reason than to tick a box, it would have been better to simply make a new character and have them tell their own story, gay, trans ect rather than take what little representation a group already have and swap it out for another group, thus in a round about way putting people back where we started with some groups represented while others are shunned.

[@tauntingeveryone7208]

It just depends on the story for me. I do not think a story that retells Martin Luther King Jr. life should only have a black actor playing him because his race is integral to the story. However, having any race playing Jesus as opposed to an Arabic person in a story is okay because Jesus' race is not integral to his story. So if the story demands a certain race, gender, sex, etc. because it is needed for the story being told then it makes sense to cast a certain race, gender, sex, etc. Now we could also go into the merits about why diversifying casting is important. 9 out of 10 times it is not the best person who gets the job but the person with the best connections. Adding diversity as a necessary component in casting actually would make it more likely that the best candidate would be chosen. Another point is to talk about voice actors and how important authentic accents are better than non authentic accents. Regardless this is a complicated issue. While I see the argument that it seems like someone better would be shown over for checking the box, that rarely happens and more likely than not someone better was not chosen because they did not have the right connections for the job. I think it is a case by case thing. Sometimes it might be important while other times it is not.

[@Rkay2day]

Wow Im surprised that ace or nonbinary and trans characters arent in new movies! I thought there would be more already. I do know there is some in tv shows and other media, however its quite shocking how there's not much stories in films about them. Also this video is a really great one!

[@silentsaturn7604]

TV is always miles ahead in regards to representation compared to films. They get away with a lot more, especially on cable.

[@justheretocommentokdontwan685]

it feels too much for me at this point, i watch every tv show i can and i hate when i see it so forced and it seems like it's in every show now, don't get me wrong i'm all for queer media, i have seen some excellent movies and shows in that genre, but it's the lazy representation i dislike, just included for the sake of being progressive in a show that otherwise could function without it, that irks me guess i'm contradicting myself a little by saying i think brooklyn nine nine did a good job with their representation cause they set up that his character was queer from the start but didn't make it the focal point of his character, i also think always sunny did a good job with it cause that insecurity with self was part of in macs character through the series, i'm talk more about "hey lets give this character a gay subplot in season 2" or "ok this character is gay now just because"

[@dragonskunkstudio7582]

Nowadays I say LGB∞ and beyond.

[@coolnoobalert]

🤣

[@mirandasellerscarroll6166]

Y'all witchs and robots are real!

[@widgie161]

I feel like more accurately, each movie or show would have a cast that would be around 10% queer. So, every show or movie would have at least one queer character

[@someonesomeone25]

Any positive ficto or objectum rep would be good.

[@official-alibi]

love the video, thank you !