How much should you have in your pension? - Average UK pension pots by age

[@luckymeat3050]

So the app records your IP address, has a photograph of you, and learns your age. I think we're far too loose with surrendering our data to "fun apps" like this. Be careful.

[@Moneytothemasses]

It is true, but given that they are a leading U.K. insurance brand I think the risks are minimal. The guesses aren’t particularly accurate and if you use a vpn (as I did) then it won’t know your ip address. But all your points are of course valid and thanks for sharing.... I have a twin brother so am I surrendering his data too? It makes you think. 😂 Going off topic… I had a DNA test to track my ancestry and while I of course consented to the use of my DNA he didn’t have to… but his DNA is technically on record too now given that we are identical. I always wondered about the legal minefield of that.

[@omicronNZ]

There are simpler, reasonable alternative methods to supply an age range. Some feedback - it’s fun but give us an alternative. I don’t like being forced to do this.

[@DVDKEV]

Great video guys. I’ve been working in the pensions industry now for many years and have been going on for ages about how PLSA should present pot targets at 5 or 10 year intervals throughout a 40 year career, based on the 3 living standards of basic, moderate and comfortable. My logic being that pension income targets at state pension age are too distant to resonate with younger savers. This is the first video I’ve seen where the channel appears to be on my wavelength, consequently you guys just earn’t yourself a new subscriber.

[@Moneytothemasses]

Thanks for your feedback. This piece was an extract from our weekly podcast show which we also video. Do you have any other views on how we can make pensions more engaging. If so I would love to hear them. Damien ❤️

[@DVDKEV]

@@Moneytothemasses have a read of interactive investor paper which you can search for online (nothing to do with me/my company) ‘Show me my money. A report on transparency in pensions’ December 2020. An interesting read. What is missing with auto enrolment is up front education and employer engagement. If employers spent time with their employees each year to explain what has been set up for them, the importance of employer contributions, employee contributions, tax relief, fund choice and compound growth and that this is not a solution to a moderate to comfortable retirement, merely a foundation, many more employees would engage through Apps and online accounts and increase contributions where they can. Employers enrol their employees into the pension scheme as an obligation and once enrolled they see they’ve fulfilled their task but a little time spent educating themselves and their employees can make a huge difference to retirement outcomes. We need to provide employees with tools and information to help them understand where they are now, where they want to be, what the gap is and how they can chip away at it over the remaining years before they retire. It’s not easy but without the engagement of employers most employees will do nothing as they rely on their employer providing them with a pension without understand that in most cases it’s only going to provide a basic living standard.

[@FredGarrett-q2t]

I will be forever grateful to you, you changed my entire life and I will continue to preach on your behalf for the whole world to hear you saved me from huge financial debt with just a small investment, thank you Wendy Hubbard Stewart.

[@JaimeBlack-qk6wi]

I'm surprised that you just mentioned and recommended Wendy Stewart, I met her at a conference in 2018 and we have been working together ever since.

[@Robertdixon-e4l]

The very first time we tried, we invested $2000 and after a week, we received $9500. That really helped us a lot to pay up our bills.

[@JudyTolley912.j]

You trade with Wendy Stewart too? Wow that woman has been a blessing to me and my family.

[@StacyRose0]

I'm new at this, please how can I reach her??

[@Billy-Reeves]

I was skeptical at first till I decided to try. Its huge returns is awesome. I can't say much....

[@clarkeysam]

I'm 35 and have £100k in my pension. It's nice to know I'm on track.

[@DVDKEV]

It is also important to get across to savers that when auto enrolment was launched in 2012, the government only intended for it to provide a top up to the state pension or somewhere midway between a basic and moderate living standard. Savers need to understand this point and not expect the minimum 8% total contribution level (6.5% of salary once you take the LEL off the average £35k income to arrive at the average qualifying earnings) to provide them with a moderate to comfortable retirement. Employees need to increase their own contributions as early as possible.

[@Moneytothemasses]

Fantastic point and thanks for adding. Auto-enrolment as you say was only ever meant to be a top-up and it serves as a good starting point. Given that the rules state that employees who auto-enrol have to add 5% of their earnings to their pension while employers add 3%. One option is to try and aim for employer to contribute 5% on your behalf as well. That would mean 10% of your salary going into a pension with you only contributing half of it. Always think about pension contributions when negotiating new employment contracts Damien

[@clarkeysam]

I think a rule of thumb based on your salary is more useful. 1x salary by X years old. 2x salary by Y years old. Etc.

[@Vacheron7]

A 12 minute, 2 person stream with Andy being allowed a 20 second interjection at 2 minutes, then waiting patiently for an opportunity for Damian to stop for breath for the next 10 minutes... without success! 😂

[@Moneytothemasses]

It's how we roll 😂 Andy is the genius behind all this because he produces and edits everything. So I have the easy part 😂 In fairness this is an excerpt from the podcast which Andy hosts and I talk. You've mad me feel bad now. 😂 Damien

[@snubbii9276]

totes agree, the bar is very low for personal pensions. SO many peeps have no clue and do bugger all savings. It is tempered that most have very little to spare

[@Moneytothemasses]

Hopefully we can do our bit to shine a light on the issue and bring it more into people’s consciousness. Thanks for the comment ❤️ Damien

[@snubbii9276]

@@Moneytothemasses what are your thoughts on new generation getting a seed into their pension pots at birth and then compulsory pension contributions ==> scrapping of NI and state pensions. The power of 60 years of compounding

[@rowanjohnstone9524]

This should be part of the school curriculum, so should taxation....but I wonder why it isn't 🤔

[@simonroyle2806]

A financially educated electorate would terrify the muppets in power.

[@mendipfox1650]

A western economy relies on the majority being financially reckless 😮

[@johnristheanswer]

Average is a lot different to the median, of course. The median person will have much less.

[@Moneytothemasses]

Yes it is but dependent on the data set

[@BaileyMxX]

I'd like to believe those numbers are the median, if not then surely the average pot assuming that most people would have multiple pots thus skewing the data and making it largely irrelevant. If not then the numbers if average rather than median and based on combined total pots are scarily low.

[@JamesKerr-z4o]

Great video, didn’t know about this Scottish widows site. Perhaps they will adapt it later on to show what you should have saved, but probably not, for many they may just bury their head in the sand if a decent retirement seems unaffordable

[@Moneytothemasses]

Thanks for commenting. I hope they do adapt it as I think it would be a good education tool

[@roblowry9457]

Really interesting. As a teacher, I will get a DB pension so the pension pot idea is hard to apply. It tells me how much I will get each year, but this is index linked to CPI. Should I just multiply this by, say, 25 or 30, to get an approximate like for like?

[@sleekitwan]

Here’s a test for anyone to try. It proves that nobody wants the masses to ever have a pension pot worth a damn, despite it being very clear, it’s important and tax efficient. Simply ask your employer if you can pay in more than the standard amount they set, saying you understand that on this extra amount, you will not be getting an employer contribution. I tried in 1998. They said no. When asked why, they said ‘We might have to do it for everyone’. I asked with good reason, my employment was sporadic at best (health and job availability), and I finally got a job with a decent pension situation. See if you get a better answer. Maybe you only put £10 a month extra in, but it’s something. I bet though, you will get the same answer I did. The reason is probably more to do with systems not being set up for it than anything else - but shouldn’t we be entitled to pay in whatever we like? Does it somehow rob the pension fund, if more is paid in? I don’t think there is a good reason. They just automatically blocked my request. Take care all.

[@chqshaitan1]

Good video, one point to consider is that the plsa figures are after tax and exclude housing(as they assume you have paid off your mortgage)

[@Moneytothemasses]

Thanks for the comment and its a great point. For those who want to find out more we covered the full plsa research including its assumption in this podcast episode moneytothemasses.com/news/podcast/mttm-podcast-episode-418

[@Daniel-b1s3s]

With a Roth IRA, contributions are made with after-tax dollars, meaning you can withdraw your contributions at any time, tax-free and penalty-free. Additionally, any investment gains can also be withdrawn tax-free and penalty-free upon meeting certain conditions. I’m currently debating whether to continue contributing or to liquidate my $338k stock portfolio-I'm at a crossroads.

[@DanöVee]

For the average investor, navigating investment strategies can be challenging. In reality, professionals with the right skills and knowledge often excel in this space.

[@Toni__Michelle]

In my view, the rise or fall of the U.S. dollar can have complex effects on investments. However, it’s never been easier to grow your wealth by tapping into a diverse market with the help of a top-tier portfolio advisor. I completely agree! My Financial Advisor has helped me implement defensive strategies during this volatile period, allowing my portfolio to grow from $50K to $189K despite a turbulent market.

[@FrankJaaay]

In my view, the rise or fall of the U.S. dollar can have complex effects on investments. However, it’s never been easier to grow your wealth by tapping into a diverse market with the help of a top-tier portfolio advisor. I completely agree! My Financial Advisor has helped me implement defensive strategies during this volatile period, allowing my portfolio to grow from $50K to $189K despite a turbulent market.

[@tonyireland2234]

I must have tried harder then I thought at school.I was only a factory worker.A scum bag blue collar bottom of the pile bloke.(This is how the office staff view the shop floor workers).I had looked into the best places to work with best pension scheme. I retired at 56 with £540,000 in my pot.That was 4 years ago.My take home pension is more then my working pay.Plan your future is my advice.Dont just shrug your shoulders.Your destiny is in your hands.

[@Moneytothemasses]

Thanks for sharing this is a great lesson for young people. Last night I gave a talk to a charity that helps young disadvantaged people, most of whom are carers. They asked me to talk about investing and my aim was to inspire them that anyone could with commitments and discipline build wealth over time if they start early. Patience is key. Your comment on pensions is amazing and has inspired me for a future talk. If anyone else has similar stories they don’t mind sharing then please do as the young people are now following this channel ❤️ Damien

[@tancreddehauteville764]

£540k is not a bad pot to build up for a factory worker. Why are you beating yourself up?

[@markswales762]

Hello Damien brilliant video the best one I’ve seen on you- tube and I’ve watched a few, it’s hard to predict the future with wars,governments messing in budgets and financial crashes. I’ve a small pension annuity paying £5150 with 100% cover for the wife, we’ve both a pension pot mine being £116,000 not much by your figures but putting £1772 a month into the pension pot with three years to go to state pension, I’m lost what to do annuity or draw down or have to carry on working 😢.

[@Moneytothemasses]

Hi Thanks for the feedback and glad you enjoyed the video. If you have any other topics you want covered then let me know. The answer is to seek financial advice but one thing to bear in mind it doesn't have to be an either or decision. You can blend a mix of all three (work, annuity and drawdown). In reality I think most people's retirement strategy will be that going forward. ♥ Damien

[@ManxAndy]

I’m 55 and tried the camera twice , it thought I was 46 and 50…so I’m made up , lol 👍😜🇮🇲😎

[@SomeoneSmarter]

Wait, aren't these pot numbers tiny? I wonder what the distribution looks like for a given age. I'd imagine a lot of people on PAYE are contributing the minimum 5% or whatever which will never be enough to build a significant pot size. I'm mid in my 40s and I'm paying over 30% of my salary into my pension.

[@AndrewDCDrummond]

App suggested 45 but I'm nearly 61, so was worth it just for that :-)

[@Moneytothemasses]

Definitely! 😂

[@simonroyle2806]

Oh. Im the same age and it came up with 58, so only mildly flattering

[@wakeywarrior]

If you want a decent retirement and want to retire by 60, you really need at least 750k. People grossly under estimate what is needed.

[@prometheus4130]

@@wakeywarrior thats a few less foreign holidays for most people, but worth it. Hopefully the message gets out in time!

[@annawong1305]

£750k maybe for wealthier people but a lot of us are peasants. We need to save maximum 25 times your annual spend so if I spend £16k a year, I'll only need £400k, etc. Of course, this only works if the mortgage is paid off.

[@dstewusa7054]

@wakeywarrior Make that a cool mill

[@wakeywarrior]

@ yes I’m talking £ of course, not $, so that’s $1m. I actually think really a lot of people will need well in excess of £1m. For example, if you want to draw £50k a year here like many would want, really you need £1.25m.

[@annawong1305]

I was happy I'm average for my age but then you said those numbers are way below what they should be 😅 But i wouldnt mind working to keep my mind and body going, but I'll defo leave the corporate world. Too many people die during early retirement due ill health and its sad.

[@Moneytothemasses]

I think a lot of people will have to work longer but also many people will choose to, as you suggest for lifestyle reasons. With working from home now more prevalent it certainly better lends itself to working when older (less commuting etc). I’m glad the numbers that I gave provided the context of what would be required in retirement better than the ‘average’ numbers did. Thanks for joining the conversation Damien ❤️

[@galaxianx01]

Why don’t you just tell it your age. Better still, just publish a list of average by year.

[@Moneytothemasses]

Those numbers have been published by the ONS - to no effect or impact. That’s where the pension mirror gets it data. This is another way to bring the data to life and start the conversations about pensions

[@galaxianx01]

@@Moneytothemasses Interesting point. I get that. Saying that though , I don’t think most data published by the ONS is generally sought after by the general public regardless of what it is. It’s a resource for statisticians, news outlets, or other media outlets looking for data to support their content. Information like this could be included in your annual pension statements, attached to payslip emails etc. But yes, an innovative way to get people engaged.

[@TheSilvercue]

I don’t think you guys understand what they are doing. This app is purely to collect data, which they can then sell. I work in tech and this is big business. They could simply ask your age or show a table.

[@Moneytothemasses]

No I am aware. I also tell people the figures by age so that don't technically have to use it themselves. Also you don't tell the tool anything when you use (I don't tell them my real age)... it looks at you... judges your age and shows a number. My image is on the Money to the Masses website and youtube channel and I use a VPN. I'm using the tool to help educate people about their future retirement so I am more than happy to play along. Damien

[@warfish0r]

Oh wow. Just like every other app then...

[@TheSilvercue]

@ I don’t use any apps that need to record a physical picture of you…..if every app you use does that, you are a mug.

[@sw793]

Well, if you are the average, you can relax, thinking even though you are having a crappy retirement, someone else is having it worse. In short those numbers are dreadful.

[@Moneytothemasses]

If someone watches this video and stops and thinks about their future retirement and decides to engage with planning then the video has achieved something positive. I'm not a fan of shock tactics as it often causes people to bury their heads in the sand. But I also think people should be told the truth and not an easy palatable version that leads them to believe everything will be ok. Your comment is spot on. Damien

[@sw793]

@Moneytothemasses the mind boggles. At 55 my pot is currently 600k and isa 250k. Even that I don't feel is enough.

[@BradLevangie]

Don't save a penny....when you get put in a dementia home the government pays....if you have money, you pay... Identical care.....your choice

[@Steve56005]

Most people have more than 1 pension pot as they move jobs and don't consolidate their pots.

[@Moneytothemasses]

Thanks @Steve56005 that is a really good point and we have covered that on the podcast recently - kzbin.info/www/bejne/qWTFiYOopKeLZ5Ysi=O-5g8-G86TS2TSnn&t=1447. Here is an article that may help those that are thinking about consolidating their pension pots - moneytothemasses.com/saving-for-your-future/pensions/what-is-pension-consolidation-and-how-do-i-do-it

[@prometheus4130]

to be fair you don’t look 46 (send me a mug 😅)

[@Moneytothemasses]

😂 flattery will get you everywhere… Damien ❤️❤️

[@kinggeoffrey3801]

All well and good saying you need to be doing this, but if you don't have the money to do it, then you can't. In 2022, every one of my bills doubled. My wages haven't doubled to keep up with inflation. In fact, I haven't had a pay rise since 2019 because all of the minimum wage people are getting all of the money.

[@NewFemtex]

100% agree with your point about people struggling having the money to do it. However... "Minimum wage people" are getting "the living wage" - literally an average of what it costs to survive. You need to talk to your employer about getting a pay rise or move to another company that will pay you more for your work, if you're not happy with what you're getting paid. It's not "minimum wage people" taking your money, it's your company not paying you what you think you're worth. Don't be that guy that blames people getting paid "enough to live" in society for your companies decision to not pay you what they should be. Bear in mind that you're getting paid OVER the minimum wage and struggling to pay bills, how do you think they're faring?

[@kinggeoffrey3801]

@NewFemtex well I have earned that right to get paid more as I'm a skilled worker. I spent thousands getting qualified in different industries. I have been told by my employer and have friends in different industries that they won't get paid more because of the minimum wage increases. Now, they have a new excuse to add to the list with the NI contributions being increased. Those companies that pay more don't exist. It's a myth, I'm afraid. The average wage where I live is 26.5k a year.

[@NewFemtex]

@@kinggeoffrey3801 As a skilled worker, I agree that you absolutely should have the right to be paid more than the national minimum wage, however, not at the expense of working people having a minimum standard of living. The national minimum wage IS a living wage. They're not stealing your wage they're existing in society. It's not their fault the national minimum wage is rising; it's largely down to greed in many different sectors: rent, energy, food, etc. causing the cost of living to skyrocket and thus bringing the minimum wage in line with a minimum standard of living. If your company is failing to make enough money to pay it's workers what they're worth it either needs to up its prices or slim down its costs or share their profits more equally. Or, you know, continue telling their workers that they can't have a payrise because of the employees they hired doing a function in the company receiving the national minimum wage. It sucks that you invested money into your skills but are stuck at a wage you're struggling with. I hope that that changes for you. However, as it stands, if you're not happy you only have a few choices: Convince your employer the value you bring to the company is worth more than what you're receiving. Find an employer that will pay you more for the job(s) you do (even if that means commuting/moving). Get trained up in a different field where you will get paid more. Or stick with what you're doing for what you're getting. The minimum wage is where it's at, it's literally the lowest wage an employer can give to allow its employees to survive within society. It won't go down, unless there is a reduction in the cost of, well, living.

[@DVDKEV]

@@kinggeoffrey3801 In which case the employer needs to consider talking to HMRC about moving the payroll to salary sacrifice. The 1.2% NI increase on the average income is around £360. The majority of this is offset by the NI saving under salary sacrifice, based on the minimum pension contribution of someone on the average income of £35k.

[@christiansoldier1118]

I bought some magic beans with my life savings - unfortunately the Giant at the end of the Beanstalk was a fugal minimalist and had all his money invested in a Global Index Fund!

[@Moneytothemasses]

How did the story end?

[@christiansoldier1118]

@@Moneytothemasses I left with nothing but got some good advice 🙂

[@seetherbridge3]

You literally didn't need the other dude. He said like 6 words.. just overdub the camera bit 😂

[@Moneytothemasses]

😂 This is an extract from our weekly podcast hence why we are both there. But Andy (the other dude) produces and edits the show and does contribute entire sections too (he’s also the host). Without Andy none of this would happen ❤️❤️❤️ Damien

[@BaileyMxX]

You're looking at a nearly 6% withdrawal rate in retirement with your given 350k pot (not even accounting for inflation) Would you not say that that withdrawal rate is too high and gives more likelihood of scenarios where you could be at risk of depleting the pot?

[@Moneytothemasses]

Hi, Great comment and thanks for adding to the conversation. I used the assumptions pulled from a number of online calculators (mainly the Moneyhelper tool). So the assumptions aren't mine. But they will have assumed an annuity was purchased which is why the rate is punchy. For those who don't understand your question.... let me just clarify for them so it makes sense before I add my thoughts... So what is a sustainable level of income that can be taken from a pension pot each year? (I'm ignoring the tax free cash lump sum) A few things will change the answer to this question, including: -the size of your pot -how much income you want how long you are likely to live -your investment returns -inflation There is an often-cited rule of thumb that 4% is the maximum amount you can take out of your pension each year if you are to avoid running out of money. About 20 years ago, a US study argued that if you had a portfolio which was 50% US shares and 50% US government bonds (or UK shares and gilts, say, for a UK investor) then over 30 years if you drew 4% in the fist year as an income (then increased that amount by inflation each year thereafter) it would be sustainable for most people's retirement. A few years ago, life and pensions company Aegon looked at the study again, changing the asset mix slightly to add a little more in shares, and actually debunked the 4% rule. Aegon found that a 65-year old who followed this rule over 30 years would, in fact, have a one in five chance of running out of money. Most people would not like those odds. What is a sustainable pension withdrawal rate? Somewhere between 1.7% and 3.6% a year - the difference depends on your attitude to risk. If you wanted to be 99% certain that you wouldn’t run out of money in retirement, you would have to stick to a withdrawal rate of just 1.8% per year. So, for example, if you wanted an income of £20,000 a year at a withdrawal rate of 2%, you would need a £1m pension pot. This just goes to show that conventional wisdom does date and needs to be reviewed and challenged. (As an aside, these numbers also show you how valuable a final salary pension scheme is to be able to deliver that income through the whole of someone’s retirement and why, if you cash it in, you could run out of money in retirement.) There have been various other withdrawal strategies proposed which are more flexible and alter the level of income and so may make it more sustainable. I cover these in more details in this podcast episode which contains links to a paper from Vanguard and explains how you can create a dynamic and sustainable withdrawal strategy. moneytothemasses.com/news/podcast/mttm-podcast-episode-430 Thanks for adding to the conversation ❤️ Damien

[@BaileyMxX]

​@@Moneytothemasses thank you for taking the time for such a detailed response. As with any pension there's no one size fits all obviously and a myriad of different circumstances and needs that need to be factored. If staying in equities and using drawdown at 6% you're bringing more scenarios where sequencing risk and pension pot ravishing is certainly on the agenda so if relying on equities performing to continue at the withdrawal rate and beyond then the pension owner would need to be a little more conscious and aware of not over depleting in poor performance years in the market ( so have access to fixed income or a cash buffer to hide out the bad years?) Any sustained bear market or crash (admittedly an early crash can ravish anyone's pot if early on and withdrawing) and it really could have an adverse effect on your retirement.

[@sid35gb]

The guy that came up with the 4% rule has reviewed and tweaked the numbers bumping it up to 4.7% because too many people were dying with very large pots and not spending what they saved.

[@1Toll]

What you have of over looked is market values go up & Down in the market place, especially over the past 3 years returns have been poor but house prices have still risen. I have a private pension with RL the past few years have been very poor considering the fees I pay each year. 2 of the years I have barely broken even with the money I put in/fees taken. I now need to work longer than expected to hopefully hit what was project by my advisor at that time of transferring my pots together. Thinking back 40 years ago, I would of been far better off putting that pension money into purchasing bigger homes instead of a pension. Pensions cannot guarantee the figures you have quoted, on the money invested. Where my home has gone way past my pension savings paying a lot less in too.? The only people that will win are individuals that have well payed jobs, the majority of people that rent/low paid you would be better off NOT bothering and spending. The benefits system clearly shows that individuals that do not bother, are better off than people that do.

[@annawong1305]

4% is a good ballpark but in reality I imagine people will review how their fund is performing each year and adjust their spend accordingly (eg. go on 2 foreign holidays instead of 3) if they think they could actually run out further down the line.

[@prometheus4130]

these are rookie numbers, to quote a film

[@Moneytothemasses]

Especially in this racket… 😂