How NOT to use cams for climbing trad gear - with break test!

We give you lots of tips on how NOT to use cams and a few tips on how to do it. We break our first cam at the end!
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[@HowNOT2]

Purchase cams at our new store! hownot2.store/collections/active-protection

[@GarthShoemaker]

Only had time to watch the first 2 minutes, but this was super useful. Heading up The Nose now. Wish me luck!

[@proVShow]

Nooooo!!!! 🤣😂🤣😂

[@weeb3277]

godspeed

[@Phoenixhunter157]

You got this! 😂

[@peterflex1]

💀

[@thetruthexperiment]

It would be so great if everyone who doesn’t understand jokes and actually needs disclaimers went bye bye. This is why we should never give disclaimers because the people who need them don’t need to be alive.

[@nathanielshaffer1841]

You’re a phenomenal teacher man. Me and my buddies have been climbing two years. Just ventured outdoors this year and love it. Been primarily sport climbing but we both just got a trad rack. You’re extremely helpful.

[@erlendply]

Be sure to notice that it is absolutely necessary to place gear early from the belay if you are already on the wall, to prevent falling directly onto the belay and getting close to creating factor 2 fall.

[@adamarmstrong5780]

You are seriously an asset to the climbing and high lining community. Thanks for all you do! I would donate if I wasn’t living hand to mouth

[@Destort]

The first part reminded me of my friend ✅ huge double rack on single pitch of 5.7 ✅ extends everything ✅ undercams everything ✅ never practices placing gear on the ground Only took one bad fall to learn em but, I subscribed to your instant coffee just because that shout out was so real to me lol.

[@seeker296]

Who falls on 5.7...?

[@PeregrineBF]

Can't afford it at the moment (I just moved, maybe next month) but I've simply got to send you a bunch of knots to break test in various cordage. And probably a set of Dyneema Tricams. Everybody loves tricams!

[@sqreon9401]

Would love to see a break test simulating a horizonal placement. See how much depth of placements comes into play with horizontal cams and how much over camming helps in that kind of placement

[@philflip1963]

Glad to see that in these tests the sling breaks before any of the fancy mechanicals and not at the stitching, AS IT SHOULD BE!

[@conchosewing]

placing cams is a chess game while you are running out of strenght ! :D

[@chrismuntean]

Some words of wisdom from Ryan

[@thorstenkoch194]

Yes, this really stands out and will be remembered for generations. The proverbs of Ryan.....

[@paintham9430]

Lol those first two minutes of frustration.

[@patrickday4206]

Just tie some knots then you won't place a cam wrong

[@LoveAndClimbing]

A small clarification on your Totem Cam comment at 5:30: The only context where it's manufacturer approved to place a Totem Cam with only two lobes engaged, is aid climbing. Totem Cams aren't rated to hold lead falls in two-lobe placements.

[@slickdanger_]

What about 3 lobes?

[@rushthezeppelin]

To be fair I think the big ones are still rated enough for a lighter fall with two lobes but they say don't as a precaution. I certainly wouldn't go whipping on two lobes on purpose but I have had times where literally my only gear is 2 good lobes and 2 more barely touching, so a good chance it would be a 2 lobe placement in a fall and I'll trust it over nothing. Often those kinds of flares do end up being good tricam placements though.

[@JasonOgasian]

Hey guys, these break tests are awesome. I would love to see some tests with a high impulse (i.e. drop tests) that mimic real climbing falls!

[@MeshiMeshi-vu2hs]

I love this test. Its actually increasing my trust in a trad protection. Can you also break some nuts?

[@jabr991]

^^^^

[@HowNOT2]

for sure!

[@toneeviera8336]

Dare I say.....BUST some nuts 😂😂😂😂

[@hayesbrumley8724]

Tonée Viera you did not just say that 😂😂 😂

[@Phill1am]

Awesome 😍 I like your breaking tests so much as they give a close insight in strenth of the material we use all the time. And this leads to much more confidence 😊 Although I like your highline content a lot I truely love the climbing related stuff. Thank you so much for all the efford. Plz break test more trad gear 🙏

[@andrewcusack3338]

Dude, f’ing top shelf beta. Thank you for the approachable, easy to digest info and tips. I did a ton of ‘ground school’ before getting up on trad and it was worth every second - may have even saved my ass a few times.

[@LouDude502]

You are there first person that I've seen talk about "doing the math" while leading. I'm always calculating. It seems that a lot of leaders don't. I see some people running stuff out for no reason. I'm usually thinking, but my calculations if you fall you're gonna deck or worse. Hence the reason why I don't climb near other climbers lol. Got my sub 🤙

[@HowNOT2]

I do the math, then I wonder if my math is right! So I let go to check my work haha

[@LouDude502]

@@HowNOT2 that's a hell of a way to check your math lol

[@philschorr8231]

Great job guy! & Bd, sponsor this channel! This is the best advertisement money can buy.

[@HowNOT2]

Someday! I hope BD picks up the bill haha

[@mchooten]

Great videos guys. I think it would be interesting to grab some large blocks of varying rock types to test gear in. Testing bolts in sandstone sounds particularly interesting!

[@brentknickerbocker6023]

I would like to see cams in side a 'real rock' adapter so we can see how effective they pull out. Such as two rocks epoxied to inside of metal case. As well as different angles of the holding device. I think for trad gear getting pulled out is more of a risk then the gear failing. So playing with angles and different rock textures is the most interesting testing.

[@TheManCave563]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/faGneY2kprejqJY

[@dreweflin]

@@TheManCave563 hahaha that video was awesome

[@jasonmerth5121]

Can I just say how much I appreciate that you make these episodes+ the bolting bible free, this information is super useful and important for people that don’t necessarily know what they’re doing and want to learn a bit about it online before purchasing gear!

[@arthurilnicki4173]

Love your stuff, though I do have one thing that did not sit well with me. When you placed that green nut at 9:58 if you seated that nut, which should be done everytime you place one, you would actually pull through and pop it out. I would clarify to give that stopper a nice tug so that the constriction you think is good at first doesn't just slip through after you weigh it. Keep up the handy work!

[@Barcelona0006]

Cannot wait to watch teh cam crusher put in some more work! Really cool to see where the cam breaks first.

[@HowNOT2]

Did some more... publishing soon!

[@Bennici]

I've always wondered whether wires, nuts and stoppers were really the same thing, but I was too afraid to ask. Thanks!

[@theopinson3851]

Dude you’re missing the point. You place above your head so you can yard on it and french free through all the hard parts!! What a noob. 😜

[@Lew114]

Bouncing on cams and nuts close to the ground as a beginner is great for gaining confidence in your placements and your gear. Or showing you that you need more practice.

[@VisinskiRadoviBeograd]

Always an interesting video. Great community. Keep up the good work.

[@eyescreamcake]

10:02 that "realllllly nice nut placement" isn't making much contact...

[@nickhill2340]

yeah that was sketchy lol

[@ryeguyify]

agreed, the constriction opens too soon below

[@bullionsean456]

Yeah I thought the same, but it wasn't a bad placement. Thought the one down lower was better

[@Theninjaonthemountains]

I just got my first cam set getting ready to play with them, thanks for info

[@sunreindeerfog]

Nice to see the progress in your videos from this video until now. Keep up the sick content!!

[@purple0burtle]

Great video, super-informative. lots of good advice. Thanks Ryan ;)

[@Account-sq3fj]

Very positive and clever message in the end of the clip!!

[@moneymaken9232]

Horizontal placements and perfectly parallel crack cam placements would both be awesome!

[@TommyMacMXClimber]

Love the first 2:30... still laughing my ass off (did I give myself away as and old climber? Oh, yeah... I could have just typed "LMAO"... I'm still struggling to learn that new language...)

[@calebneel8955]

Have always wanted to see this thank Ryan!!

[@dennisgarber]

If I ever want this much sarcasm, I would just listen to my wife.

[@kutaycelik3196]

This started as an actual how NOT to place them. I tought it was sarcasm with the title

[@jackhagerman2521]

Break Dog leashes please My dog pulls about 4KN and I need to know what to use

[@alextedrow4818]

I would personally recommend 1/2in amsteel with a spliced eye(so you don't lose strength) it's what I've been using with my massive chihuahua and he has never broken it

[@spencershields9186]

Would like to see you guys break test a totem cam.

[@ivandevicentesanchez4320]

From my point of view, in horizontal cracks, it's better to place the external lobes of the cam device in the bottom side of the crack. So the base is increased and the cam device is more steady and balanced. Regards!

[@rickedeckard2006]

What great educational content. Thank you

[@Astilath]

Excellent advice on practicing placements.

[@Tynogc]

I always wanted to know how those things failed, always thought they would just slip out at lower forces if the crack is kinda parallel, but apparently it still takes 10kN! Awesome! One idea though: maybe just buy a piece of Granit Slab or something and stick it to the metal part of the snapping-tool. Would that make it more realistic don't know just an idea xD

[@pentachronic]

Buy ? Just take a rock hammer and smack a few rocks!

[@calebneel8955]

I have 3 or 4 cams that I pulled out of a crack the other day. Would you like them? Most would need to be reslung as they are 2010-2012

[@HowNOT2]

That would be great. Can you send me a photo to me on facebook? facebook.com/ryan.jenks.35

[@UnIxWaNnAbE]

You the man

[@alextedrow4818]

I'm curious what happens with horizontal placements when the stem is going over a lip and the cam doesn't have a flexible stem like the X4s or Z4s

[@HowNOT2]

me too! I will break many cams in this situation

[@dinkvjr]

Great information! Im not a climber but mad respect those that do, i. Just wanted to know how tf the cams work, im surprised and in awe of a cam now. 👍

[@MrRaandom]

LOLed so much at this episode!

[@natfind4724]

Hey, great video, love the goods and bads of placement and plus a break test!

[@nettewilson853]

OMG I feel called out. But this is a hilarious way to drill home best placement

[@lennymercurio5595]

I've got a set of 80's classic Wild Country Friend Rigid stems if you want, #2, #3, #4

[@HowNOT2]

That would be great. Can you send me a photo to me on facebook? facebook.com/ryan.jenks.35

[@drew5334]

It would be cool to see how cams and nuts break in various real rock situations, it seems like that would be the weakest link in the chain, the interface between the cam/nut and the rock, especially if placed less than optimally

[@drstrangelove85]

Thanks for the cool video! I don't understand what this breaking test is supposed to tell me as in reality you dynamically load your cam. I mean usually I fall on them, which generates a high dynamic force, and then hang. If the cam handled the dynamic force then the hanging force will alway be fine. Or am I missing something?

[@HowNOT2]

This break test was just to show off. Our future cam break test videos you can walk away from smarter.

[@drstrangelove85]

@@HowNOT2 in this video two researchers from ETH Zurich did dynamic tests with standard carabiners kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZq4aIxnZbWXhKs (in German). They broke at about half their static strength. It would be super cool to see this kind of stuff for cams. Ask me if you want to have more details from the video.

[@danielsavage1101]

You should do an old cam episode (80s through 90s).

[@HowNOT2]

people are sending some in! will do

[@chrisran24]

New to trad so this is super helpful enough.

[@Totalavulsion]

What I love about cams is when they decide to walk on you when you’re 10ft above them working through the crux

[@Isoeso]

Omg I was about to post on the last video that I wanted you to do this and here it is

[@HowNOT2]

They say google algorithms know you better than you know yourself haha

[@tb-cf2bt]

Here for the algorithm, keep up the good work!

[@HowNOT2]

Thanks. Cheers to another algorithm bump! haha

[@proVShow]

I have no idea what cams to test but test them all!!! Looks cool breaking them! LOL!

[@lungotevere]

Thank you for the great presentation!!!

[@jimbojet8728]

I enjoyed this vid. Thank you

[@thoughtthrottle.]

I'd love to see whether webbing or cord is more abrasion resistant. For anchor applications like top roping over an edge.

[@kilpatjr]

Good stuff, thanks for sharing! A few more points for people to consider: (1) You've got to start with good rock. Look for a cleave that goes to the center of the earth. Avoid flakes if you can. If there's any question, hit it with the heel of one hand while feeling for it to move with the other. Just whacking it and listening for hollow sounds is a start, but it's not enough. (2) Maximize surface area (i.e. metal/rock) contact between the piece and the rock. Greater contact area reduces likelihood of slippage or breaking the rock. This applies to cams, nuts, and everything else. It also means you should prefer to place nuts (and hexes) in their normal orientation rather than sideways. That nut placement Ryan showed might be good in strong rock, but it'd pull right out of something soft like sandstone. (3) Don't clip the wire loop on BD cams -- the sling is double-looped for a reason. The BD QC lab also did something similar to the final slacksnap experiment and also found that it reduces strength by about 4 kN. In drop tests simulating lead falls, they also found cable damage suggesting normal falls taken straight on the wire could compromise it over time. www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en/qc-labreslinging-camalots-and-c3s.html (4) To combat walking, look for a way to pre-walk your cam into a dead end. (5) When it comes to cams, bigger does not always mean stronger. BD's new #7 is the same strength as the 0.3 and the #8 rated to only 5 kN. Also, seriously, go plug some gear in at ground level. Pull on it in all directions while watching it closely. If it doesn't move, look down (put your helmet between the piece and your noggin) and stomp on a sling connected to it with. If that holds, try standing with both feet in the sling and giving it a good bounce (it helps to have a second piece to hold). You may be surprised what works and what doesn't.

[@mulkku323]

Can you make cams beaking test in the crags?

[@andrijagrgic2357]

Can that really hold a fall?

[@samuelfindley3490]

Apropos of 5:30, the scariest fall I ever had was a measly 8 footer off a miserable friend placement which was above about 30 feet of open space before a small stopper...It only had two lobes engaged, and it held! (obviously, given that I'm still here, 25+ years later).

[@daveyjones766]

I always think about the reverse zipper effect too.

[@suspecterrain]

Thanks. Geologist-guy who asked for recent comment deletion... you rock,,, love your projects and focus. One of only a dozen i care to follow/subscribe. I'll send you some apatite crystals i exhumed in Bancroft, Ontario if i find your address,.

[@sephirrothvt]

I love these anti tutorials I have unlearned all the correct techniques and I am ready to climb

[@proVShow]

Great Content dude!!!!!

[@UnIxWaNnAbE]

This dude needs to get sponsored...

[@robozbeci]

Thanks

[@h-dargalaye1377]

Thanks for sharing

[@robburnett2672]

Gunks NY horizontal parrrellel sided with stem over a not too sharp edge!!! There is a big debate over whether horizontal stem flexing placements are just as tough...ps I think they are plenty tough considering gunks is quarts conglomerate (granite hard)!! These vida are super thanks!

[@gerritvanderlugt9002]

Love it. What effect does placing the cam in metal vs rock have? Is that a comparable test? I wonder if there is a way to some how set up a concrete crack to test...

[@PeregrineBF]

Metal is a bit more likely to slip (lower coefficient of friction) but I'd expect similar strength. The tapering fixes the slipping issue.

[@PeregrineBF]

Forgot to add: metal is stronger than the rock, there are cases where cams or other pro fail by fracturing the rock instead of breaking. Metal won't simulate that.

[@Jwynne_]

I’ve actually code a prety bad crack. At least there is one. Lol love ur videos the help me a lot

[@vazap8662]

You're hilarious man! Nice one.

[@elvinchateauvert]

If you could test static placements of dual axel cams that would be cool

[@HowNOT2]

yea, i'm curious if what they say is true

[@anneliseallen]

Are you saying that specific sling had already survived 900 break tests? That is impressive!!

[@craiguhler9206]

Thanks!

[@jens5934]

I got a set of old ones from maybe the 90’s or so floating around. Only problem is I’m based in Australia, so postage would take some time. Let me know if you want them.

[@marcusrobinson1778]

i want to see a home depot carabiner/ring/other break test.

[@foihdzas]

Thank you! Great testing, sadly my cams are too nice to break :/

[@seanromero6041]

I have nothing important to say I just want the algorithm to pick this up 👍

[@ReedWolfewawrzynek]

i love this idea. I have been thinking about making a test setup like this for a while. One of the big questions i have is why is it so bad to have lobes unevenly loaded? black diamond said something about buckling of the lobes, and i believe that is especially true with the larger cams, but does it matter as much with smaller cams? you said that it's possible for cams that have unloaded lobes to fall out of the crack, and i see that being a problem, but what about unevenly, but still loaded lobes. Thank you for the service your doing visualizing how gear fails so climbers like me can make more informed decisions.

[@lennybruce1137]

good very good thank you.

[@samuelfindley3490]

And I really, realy want to see a test fo failure on the "knots in cord as stoppers" that are used at the elbsandstein...

[@HowNOT2]

comes out in two weeks

[@samuelfindley3490]

@@HowNOT2 AWESOME!!!

[@civedm]

OMG. I miss placing cams. Open up the state parks so we can climb again.

[@Cardsandstoagies]

You fall wayyy more than you think. My first whipper was above a ~12-15 ft runout on rrg sandstone. Ended up whipping 40 feet. Math says maybe 24-30 but slack, rope stretch and yanking yo belayer 5 ft up adds up.

[@davegc3355]

Could you do a dynamic test? I think it's more realistic isn't it?

[@dsperanza79]

"... you're not ok with falling? Don't lead climb". Nice one.

[@Greg41982]

I knew I was doing it right!

[@Ernie-Purkis]

Can you do a video of new trend climbing

[@extreme_ryan_delena]

I’d be really interested to see nuts, tricams, hexes, etc

[@BushCampingTools]

LOL, you forgot to say, you also look like you're as hard as for carrying a crazy number of cams- but better take more than necessary for bomber pro LOL! I had to look to check that the upload date wasn't the 1st of April!

[@DuBCraft21]

Might be a bit boring for you, but it'd be cool to see how the different variations on a fig-8 knot retain strength (ie: fig 8, fig 9, unfinished fig 8, bunny ears and any of the other variations I'm missing)

[@joneichel1]

Climb with someone who knows what they are doing. Learn in the real world from people with experience. KZbin is a bad teacher in the regard.

[@DuBCraft21]

@@joneichel1 I'm not looking to learn how to use these knots, I'd just like to know how strong they actually are. Like with the figure 9 that is popular in the rope solo community. I've heard it is stronger than a figure 8, but I can't find any information on how much stronger it actually is. Same with an unfinished figure 8, its a useful knot, but I can't find any information on how it compares to the default figure 8. I'd imagine it'd be weaker, but how much weaker?

[@HowNOT2]

We will show how KNOT to use ropes soon!

[@gagebryers8751]

Synergo! I work for them.

[@kirkgarren1002]

Hey , I know this video isn't very new. However, I have some old rigid stem cams that I think would be cool to destroy. How do I get them to you? Also, I don't have e enough for a whole video so how do we make sure we get to watch them SNAP!

[@clintsouthcott2824]

Never fell on a cam before but when I saw that 2950 lbf, I'm so more confident in them

[@omallykaboose]

surely you must have reached out to kolin powick and the BD qc lab stuff for testing cams etc?

[@Kenneth_H_Olsen]

8 kN = 8000 newton / 10 (9.82newton) = 800 kilo vertical load . thats close to 1 ton . about 2000 LBS pounds

[@zmonty09]

i dont even climb, higline, slackline...but i fucks with you for the knowledge of rope fun