How PvE players ruined Fallout 76's PvP mode - A Fallout 76 PvP short

[@thiccosaurus4033]

you forgot to mention another big issue that kept both survival and nw winter from ever taking off was aimjunkies users you could not approach any member of raider syndicate RS-Legend ,italian goddess and parastatic most notably even when they were displayed on the map without them gunning you down until aimjunkies went offline and then when that happened you had vurkrin legend and ragnarok using infinite ammo on laser muskets to completely break players armor in one shot and using opk leaving the servers empty if no one is on the servers then there is no point in having them up and running the solutions to making good pvp are no brainer simple remove legendary effects vats and give aid a cooldown but this is the games 4th year and they do not care about pvp or even pve its all about selling millions of cosmetics in the atom shop

[@Dr.TC_]

It’s infuriating that those guys are what’s considered the face of PvP, their behavior is super toxic and not at all representative of the PvP community

[@thiccosaurus4033]

@@Dr.TC_ yeah it was a shame luckily RS is usually reduced to nothing but the leader every few months lol

[@Rincewind75]

Hackers is not a PvP or PvE problem it's a game problem. Trust me a lot of people have been working hard to stop hackers and to make the game better. What needs to change is the in fight between the player base. PvP is bad PvE is good..... no Sir there are ass holes on both sides and good people on both sides. I have tried PvE I've done missions and hung out with some really nice PvE players but ask yourself this..... have you tried PvP have you even tried it with a trusted buddy? nothing to lose but so much to gain.

[@thiccosaurus4033]

@@Rincewind75 they tried to late bethesda didnt even acknowledge hacking was a problem until nw now here we are almost 4 years later with one of the most horribly executed games of all time and thats not even an exaggeration

[@dattruemg_6062]

V.a.t.s wasn't even supposed to exist from what I heard.

[@tobedone4079]

It is what happens when you make a PvE game a PvP one... you got all the PvE players, suddenly in a situation they didn't want to be in...

[@lostbutfreesoul]

On the back of a Single Player Engine at that.... Everything about the situation screamed 'bad idea, re-make from the bottom up!'

[@michaelfuria4775]

Game should of just been Fallout with the addition of an up to 4 player multiplayer and have a separate winter game mode

[@tippyc2]

Ok, fallout has historically been PVE, but I thought they said from the beginning that 76 would be a PVP game. I was really into ARK:SE at the time, and i was getting excited to try PVP survival in Fallout's universe. Then it released as a joke and i never looked back.

[@MusicFreak0426]

@@tippyc2 they never claimed it was going to be a PvP focused game, just that it had it and the trailers most dominantly showed off cooperation

[@lewiscameron5761]

Survival mode was literally a pvp mode. There was no reason to join it if you didn't want pvp.

[@kel-lee8621]

As a old pvp player I can say this. Pvp players ruined it by mass duping gear, using exploits like godmode, and going out of their way to force pvp. I mean jumping in front of peoples shots trying to force pvp. Besides pvp has been broken and boaring since day 1. Not to mention that pvp players cry when people use vats or railways to drop them in seconds

[@GodzThirdLeg]

I have never played 76, but just from the way this video describes it it sounds like Bethesda tried to copy games like Dayz and Rust but instead of the combined PVE and PVP gmaeplay split experience into two gamemodes.

[@adowted]

as somebody who was top 15 xbox circa 2019, it has always been an issue. I still to this day run bloodied and yes vats hurts. but what separated us PvPers and PvErs was the ability to deal damage without vats and tank virtually anything

[@AbysmalSeasoning]

@@adowted until you run into 2 users using an explosive flamer and explosive cryo. You can tank it yes but it WILL lag you out.

[@Dr.TC_]

one of my buddies dropped a guy from a group known for using exploits and spawned weapons once with just a good ol quad railway and he demanded to see his inventory claiming hacks lmao

[@adowted]

@@AbysmalSeasoning that happens to be an issue 😭. was never one for the PA metas however and back then legendary PA didn't exist. I'm slowly adjusting and climbing the ladder again in stranger heart, it seems that heavy is the only way to kill due to high ammo capacity, gatplas is in meta and cryos are more so for stopping stimmies than killing as everybody has a cryo resistance set of sorts. flamer do nothing because of sizzling style and fireproof stacked they are only useful in SH rn because of flame/acid DoT stacking

[@superdupermart7636]

Honestly, I feel like the hackers/ dupers ruined it more. Any "Pvper" had a full sent of duped/hacked assasin sentinel gear with legacy gattling plasmas.

[@wobba4436]

i did try the mode but i could never find any players or when i did i got a team that instant killed

[@hyperturbotechnomike]

I have experience, both with PvP and PvE games and the Fallout PvP was just lazy. The survival mode felt pretty much unplayable for me on PC, because of the sheer amount of hacked weapons and bad balancing. I would only play it, if Bethesda would implement an anti-cheat and exclude legendary/legacy effects, so all weapons only do base damage, i would be excited. But then everyone would just use the Fatman or spam orbital strike grenades i guess.

[@irredax56]

Eh, it just forces players to get more creative. Duping is a good thing, fuck the garbage market this game has.

[@bemusedkidney8619]

I'm a 'veteran' when it comes to online games and every online game that has PVP about 90% of the PVPers don't want PVP, they want a murder simulator. They're not interested in a fair fight which is evidenced in a lot of the replies here... "used to kill 20 people in a row but now they can kill me it sucks" "Safe zones" don't work either as the PVPers just hover around the 'exit area to grief you. Very different play styles that should never share the same server but both should exist. Also the 'git gud' argument doesn't work because a new player is so far behind that being griefed is equivalent of losing days worth of play.. not fun.

[@hyperionsf3220]

Should make turrets have a LOT more range and make it to where they do a ton of damage to players. You shouldn't be able to grief a person's base and walk away in power armor without a scratch. Those turrets should be melting your power armor imo...

[@rcpolygons]

The mode was dead on arrival for me due to not being much of a level playing field. The main issue was bring existing characters to survival mode. So everyone is getting one shoted left and right due to legendary weapons. There was no true balance.

[@irredax56]

It didn't die. Too much complaining form foodies made Bethesda shut it down. Maybe you should've made a more pvp oriented build before going into the pvp oriented mode? Common sense.

[@apoczbugfinder]

@@irredax56no he’s right. Should’ve been a new character that caps at 75 no legendary effects and all armor and or items dropped on death with increases exp gain but perma death.

[@alfhoward5825]

It’s now 2022. Fallout 76 still lives. There’s very, very little pvp (if any). I personally am sorry food builds ruined “survival” mode. As a non-pvp individual, I was quite happy your little community had its own space, to massacre each other freely. It kept you guys away from the actual fun game.

[@nexusdrop7863]

Never played - So this was a PVP server and there was another more PVE orientated server? If true that does sound like a crap deal. Stay out of PVP servers if you do not want it.

[@torsteinnorbertson]

@@nexusdrop7863 The survival mode was for pvp, the adventure mode is for pve. Unfortunatly adventure mode has pvp elements, too. But even if you like pvp, survival mode was unbalanced and pvp is completely broken in the game. So for everybody who likes pvp and went survival mode it was pure frustration due to hacks, exploits and the carry over from adventure mode chars.

[@nexusdrop7863]

@@torsteinnorbertson So much more of a bad game design than 'PVE ruined the game' scenario?

[@torsteinnorbertson]

@@nexusdrop7863 Imo yes, fallout games are pve games and some devs had the idea to implement pvp elements in the online version. The idea is nice but the realization is terrible. The game uses the fo4 engine which is very well known by modders and doesn't run an anti cheat engine. Injected and duped items are still an issue in the game. In my eyes pve players can't ruin a pve game, implementing pvp just woke wrong hopes for those pvp players who want a challenging and fair playground. Pvp in 76 is mainly for idiots who want to annoy others with their duped amd hacked gear and aid spamming. Only 1% tries to play pvp as it should be, the rest are griefers.

[@KSTeddy88]

Thus comment is w

[@clabo44]

Honestly they need to keep pvp and pve separate. There is no reason to subject players to modes they don't want to play. I hate PVP and am glad it's no longer in my game with pacifist mode on. I hated the old way and would rather players be nice to each other and wave.

[@LeviandTominHD]

Cringe

[@Dumhorse]

Cringe.

[@theepicgamer4756]

Not Cringe

[@wumbusvanwinkle8674]

Cringe

[@HighlyBasic430]

Not Cringe

[@rcpolygons]

Also you do know that fallout is mainly a single player game, so there was pve until 76. So most players want a pve style game not a pvp.

[@barni6504]

Good point

[@Alva_Lombax]

I wouldnt be oposed to pvp in a fallout game, but better to just give it its own dedicated mode like TDM, etc, that way you can balance the way you want without affacting the rest of the game

[@vortex7733]

preach brother.

[@The_mrbob]

Fallout Online?

[@SobaOfPulaski]

Exactly, Fallout is supposed to be an Open World RPG not a PvP Shooter. Make a gamemode but don't isolate the core fanbase.

[@Junkzillabox]

I agree, pvp servers should be an option available to the people that enjoy that aspect of the game. It's not my thing, but the one's that enjoy it should be able to have that option, dam.. feels bad for our pvp peeps.

[@Justin-fn1ey]

Forced pvp is not fun, optional pvp is fun.

[@Leavemealone670]

It was optional

[@irredax56]

It was optional, your comment makes no sense.

[@djjeckel65]

It's fun to force it

[@djjeckel65]

@@Leavemealone670 no you can force it

[@LibertyPrime1982]

@@djjeckel65 gay

[@xsn1per3l1te]

The title should be: how pvp players ruined fallout 76's pve experience. I fund funny that a lot of people are complaining about pvp content as it's the main focus of this game, spoiler: It's not, it never was, and it never will be. Since Fallout 1 this game has been a story driven rpg game, and that's what's supposed to be. Want to pvp? Go play call of duty, I couldn't care less if they completely removed pvp from the game and focused only on pve, and I'm sure the vast majority of the community and fallout fanbase thinks this way. Pvp it's just one single little feature in Fallout's vast world, it's not the main focus, get over it y'all.

[@ZEUS-tq9nb]

Yea the reason they changed so much when pve players asked was because that was and still is the majority of the playerbase

[@slameradon165]

I'll say this, I think people would be better receptive of PVP if it was more properly Roleplayed out to start. Hell, give us an "Encounter" system that pits a characters stats against another one. For example, Jeff wants to raid Aaron's base, and gets close. Jeff has his account set to "Raider" (PVP). Aaron is set to Survivor (PVE). As a result, as Jeff gets close to Aaron, it initiates a pre-made set of Dialogue Options, that would initiate PVP under the right conditions. However, Aaron has his stats put heavily into Intelligence/Charisma/etc, and can talk his way out of a situation through the Dialogue options. Jeff's Charisma/Intelligence/etc are not high enough to contest Aaron's skills, and he fails at the (behind the scene) dice rolls. As a result, Aaron gets a temporary immunity to any attacks that Jeff tries to pull afterwards because "He convinced Jeff to leave him alone." The fact that most of the Non-Combat stats dont actually do all that much in actual combat makes them feel useless when pitted against enemy players. A system like this could at least give them some use and also feel more fair to people who have stats put into Non-Combat related stats.

[@andrew1923]

@@slameradon165 that’s dumbest thing ever legit all they need to do for pvp is remove legendarys from both gun and armor and remove the ability to spam quantum’s and boom it’s fixed bc if you don’t have op legendary effects then all you got is just a gun and armor and it would be equal playing field and it would just come down to whatever gun you like using more

[@slameradon165]

@@andrew1923 so you dont like roleplaying in your roleplaying game? You forget the fact that guns are not made equal in fallout to begin with. A rocket launcher isnt going to be the same as a 10mm just because of "Skill". Fallout isnt like Call of Duty or Overwatch, theres not a need to balance PVP. Its the fact that PvP players are wanting to muscle their way into a community that has for the longest time been a primarly PvE centric and whining that PvP is unbalanced. We didnt ask for them to come here, nor did we want them. Fallout has always been about exploration of both the new and old world and the people that live within it. Unfortunately, most PvP players equate to that of a Raider.

[@andrew1923]

@@slameradon165 that gun comparison could be used for any pvp game so that point was just destroyed and two no bc if I wanna pvp I should be able to hop on and smack some kids not go through 20 different steps to finally kill a player

[@halfsoulkaneki1995]

ok this is an out right whine that PvE players are protected from PvP players. would you like to be harassed by PvP players and killed over and over again while youre trying to do a mission or something important. we all know the answer is no. i played 76 for a month with no protection just as an experiment out of the 100 goals i had set up to do everyday i only got 10 of them done because PvP players constantly hunted me down. the 100 daily goals i had set for myself would only take 3 hours but instead i was spending 10-18 hours just to only get 10 done. i have been greefed i have been harassed by PvP players in 76 one sever i was playing in the harassment and greefing from the PvP players on the PvE players got so bad that everyone on the server was banned for a week so it could sort out who the PvP players were that were harassing and greefing and perm ban them. i like myself some friendly PvP but the PvP in fallout 76 just makes me sick

[@hyperionsf3220]

There was definitely an issue with players that were very dishonest in their playing. This video of trying to shame those that say a lot of PVPers don't use cheats and such.....is just downright dumb. Even the guy doing the video here with his character is exposing some cheats for us all to see and he didn't even realize he put that there hahaha.

[@sethhager4097]

Game should have been full loot pvp if they were able to make a good combat system. But here we are

[@Juan_Dominguez]

I hate PvP in this game because it's so goofy to me but PvP needs a home and they should bring back survival or hell even a team deathmatch mode, just something

[@magicman3163]

Would be cool could have teams and classes with certain outfits like Chinese,US Army,BoS,and Enclave teams

[@TheLocalShitposter]

You can still use a nuke to ruin someone’s base.

[@Inspectorzinn2]

? then play nuclear winter...

[@ghandisnukes4358]

If anything, few events based on pvp would be nice. This or designated interior area somewhere on the map. Just make it so you deal less damage to team mates and turn off mechanics that make you take damage to be able to deal damage. Add loot drops just like they used to be on survival and pvp junkies will have lots of fun there

[@probablybears]

I think pvp would have been great with a tdm/ffa mode, with non-legendary weapon loadouts and no perks. It would have been a great alternative mode to get your pvp fix without playing a BR, and probably could have been a great method to get overseer ranks when they still existed.

[@Bambeakz]

I started playing 3 weeks ago because it is so much focused on PVE now. I never asked for a PVP Fallout so I am happy I can now build and explore without some bloodthirsty player suprises me with a rain of bullets. But I just don’t get why it’s so black and white with this developer. Just create areas for pvp or even servers. I mean they can make custom worlds for the monthly payers

[@Invisbleflame1]

I started playing yesterday I had to uninstall fallout 76 because in the 3 hours today that I've tried playing the game I got killed 50 times by other players I couldnt even figure out how to play the game, not sure what your playing but i dont think its fallout 76.

[@Bambeakz]

@@Invisbleflame1 I played on private servers (fallout 1st) but have to say I played a lot of events on normal servers and never got killed by other players. I guess you had a unlucky run or something changed (I played months ago)

[@bermuda333]

@@Invisbleflame1 That's so odd, I just started playing last week and have never gotten killed, and only ever met one rude player. I'm pretty sure you can try connecting to a different world, right?

[@anthonyberger810]

It’s bc the ppl who want “PvP” want easy targets. They don’t want to fight people who can fight back

[@shinobismoke1466]

@@Invisbleflame1 you know you could go into your settings and change that , just don't fire back when someone shoots or inflicts damage to you.

[@murderwasthebass1]

I wish they would bring back Nuclear Winter mode. A separate place to go to enjoy pvp survival.

[@rlmm]

I was one of those PVE players trying out the mode for the first time. Was exploring Abby's bunker and got spawn killed over and over again by someone with an explosive plasma. I lost all my chems most if not all of my cap and I was level 50 at around the time when he and his crew were around level 200.

[@brandonshultz1771]

why were you in a pvp server if you didn't want to pvp 1st off and then why didn't you leave and find a new server 2nd off

[@firestorm7977]

Totally agree I think they should open a pvp server for those that like pvp. That way pve players get to enjoy questing and don’t get grief from trolls while the pvp players get to enjoy their time too on the other server p.

[@PeopleRTheProblem]

Problem is most PvP players only want to grief lower level players

[@Kris-wo4pj]

@@PeopleRTheProblem thats just pvp in general tho. most pvp gamers are griefers.

[@takewhataway]

@@PeopleRTheProblem its sad to think that PVP players in 76 are mostly known as bullies but cowards because they like to win, so they target weaker players.

[@PunchMadeReem]

Daily ops but teams against eachother might be cool

[@4dealliance598]

Yes, imagine one team being BoS led, and thr other being under Rose's orders

[@elijahnakumura4375]

Yeah just 4v4 rooms. Those daily ops areas honestly look like fps maps

[@hybrid_lord]

Awesome yes.

[@Crashpad14]

I'm don't really enjoy pvp in fallout 76 but I do see the value in survival mode

[@Gallant_Tuba_Knight]

It was so bullshit because it was ruined by them sweaty try hards making their indestructible builds, blame them for this.

[@snapjlr6228]

@@Gallant_Tuba_Knight no, I think you just got dunked on. Even with the sweats, if you played the game regularly and was well equipped survival, with the right mindset, then it wasn’t as bad as you’re making it out to be.

[@Gallant_Tuba_Knight]

@@snapjlr6228 Your "right mindset" in reality translate to the op build that every ahole would use because it was the only way not to die in two seconds. I don't find skillful nor fun being forced to get the right weapon with the right legendary mods, Armour, perk cards because if you didn't use the meta you were simply fucked PERIOD.

[@ArtemisKitty]

@@Gallant_Tuba_Knight Nah, there's always a new trick to figure out. You had to get creative with your builds, and specifically IGNORE all the guides, because those ways are known, and all share the same weaknesses. Often the poison protection was 0 on them. Just had to be super creative and use stuff like super-fast executioner weaps to finish them off. Honestly I miss my hidden trap-laden base with turrets you'd NEVER spot in time before the triple attack hit (that plus electric and rads) Ahh I miss Survival mode. Actual proper PvP. Made me think maybe you COULD have a decent online MMO experience that still felt like the older games, with your decked out crazy gear and skills, able to USE them in PvP NW is garbage IMO. The random perks makes it horrible for anyone who hasn't played LOADS of matches, and is nowhere near a fair match as a result, skill regardless. I loved the chance to go over every now and then to test my mettle, KNOWING there's always a risk. I'd love to see what could be done nowadays, too, with all the new stuff like vaults... not to mention the entirely new weapons, armor, perks, etc. It would be a whole new meta. One WITHOUT the bloody foodies in their PA. (I'd rather spend the time killing a few more mobs to make up the difference in XP than standing at a stove. Actually I'd love to take on a foodie nowadays with my melee toon... 😈)

[@jasonk9968]

@@Gallant_Tuba_Knight true thats why i dont like pvp seems like everybody have a op build

[@bertellijustin6376]

The wasteland was never a “one man versus everyone”. I mean literally every installment you were encouraged to join or assist factions…

[@talleywa5772]

"We can't gank undergeared and under leveled players in our barely functional garbage anymore 🥺"

[@moriskurth628]

Yeah, the entire video just sounds like a guy whining he can't murder new players without repercussions anymore, and trying to disguise it as some sort of criticism, when in reality he's just salty.

[@shawntilton9170]

Honestly, Fallout was ruined by pvp. Fallout was always better as a survival, pve, rp, by following a storyboard. If you want a pvp game, and go to a game that caters to your needs. True followers of Fallout, from even back to 3 or New Vegas, will tell you the same thing. They never should have made it pvp. Maybe playing with up to 3 people, together, in pve, rp.

[@Dr.TC_]

Conflict is a recurring central theme in fallout. I don’t think it’s outlandish for a multiplayer fallout to have PvP, cause different players have different views, make different choices, and will support certain factions or even none at all. Whether it’s because of enemy factions, protecting wastelanders, or just plain bloodlust, if done correctly a multiplayer fallout can have PvP that stays immersive and doesn’t feel out of place.(imo) I’ve also completed the original fallout, fallout 2, and played a fallout online game based on the originals AT LEAST as much as I’ve played fallout 76(pretty sure it’s way more) as well as all the 3D ones. The only games I haven’t played is brotherhood of steel(because I don’t have an Xbox/PS2 or a copy) and tactics(because it refuses to run on my pc lol) It’s safe to say I’m a true follower of fallout:3

[@salem7133]

@@Dr.TC_ While it's very true that conflict is, and has been, a staple of Fallout, most of the PvP I've encountered since launch has been nothing close to resembling real conflict. I'm more often than not killed-on-sight, when in reality most Raiders or even powerhouses like gunners would more than likely harass you for protection money than just murder you for the hell of it. Not to mention that most human beings would recognize that there was, I dunno, a nuclear holocaust and the survival of the species becomes easier with friends? However, being a low level player and trying to get into PvP was damn near impossible, even with some of the earlier changes. I would be wiped out and hunted down by the same few players relentlessly while still trying my damnedest to even find an equal footing to stand upon in the battleground. Hell, even when I did end up killing a player, they'd come back with a vengeance, killing me relentlessly until I would be forced to leave Survival mode. I think it's reasonable for a game that's been based on PvE, that's really only ever had Co-Op multiplayer mods, to still have a community largely dominated by PvE players. Calling that player base out for a game implement they don't enjoy and find no fun with is bogus, especially since Survival was such a HUGE mode back in FO3, FONV, and FO4. In short, while I understand the annoyance by PvP players, blaming this on what can almost be assumed to be a large population of the game's original fanbase is one of the many reasons that players can chalk up to disliking the PvP side of an already piss-poor game, and gives many of those "Farm-Builds" even more credibility for their whining.

[@Dr.TC_]

This video addresses PvE players specifically only because of the ones that went into the PvP servers and demanded changes catered towards them even though the whole point was for them to stay in adventure to PvE to their hearts content, while PvPers had their own servers to find like minded players. Everyone knows that Bethesda is to blame for the state of the game. It’s been flawed from the start, not just PvP but PvE as well. I mean they just ported most of the legendary effects from fallout 4(a single player game) into 76 without even thinking about how it would affect balance. The two shot meta that took place early in the game’s life was a direct consequence of that decision. That’s just the tip of the iceberg on the list of bad decisions done by Bethesda, and their “fixes” are usually too little too late at best. Legacy energy weapons are barely being addressed this late into the games lifespan, PC still has hacked gear running rampant, aid spam has not been addressed, aid/armor stacking as well, etc etc

[@salem7133]

@@Dr.TC_ wait, was Survival supposed to be only for PvP players? Because, i mean, it has been in most if not all other of the Bethesda FO games, meant to give the PvE experience more heft to it. And I mean, yeah, Bethesda fucked it up there's no denying it and blame should ultimately fall to them, but still, asking a largely casual, originally PvE fanbase to just accept in players with the mindsets of Rust, CoD, CS:GO, into the game without expecting them to want huge checks or balances to cover them is a partially flawed mindset. While, yeah, Bethesda took too many suggestions seriously, most of the bad sides of PvP are the overfill from aforementioned multiplayer games, or even other multiplayer survival games which have fostered overly toxic communities who don't derive enjoyment from fair combat, but instead finding an undefeatable "build" and abusing it to push around the little guy. This seems to be the case with most of the PvE community's distaste for the PvP players, and why the underground ring of loot duping is so much of a flourishing trade, because I've heard my fair share of the people you called Farm Builds or low-level players getting shoved around by a guy with a mini gun and power armor.

[@Dr.TC_]

@@salem7133 survival mode’s main appeal was that PvP was enabled at all times, and they did offer incentives like +15% xp iirc to make up for the extra difficulty that comes with players having the ability to attack you on sight. Of course there was still PvE, you do PvE to grind for gear aid and currency to continue playing and get to the endgame which in this mode included PvP along with nuke zones and the queen. The decision to keep legendary effects greatly harmed the balance for it and in turn you get those guys on an ego rampage killing anyone they come across whether they’re a fair fight or easy pickings. But for every player that preys on the noobs and low levels, there is a player who will go after them and deliver justice, Bethesda even tried giving extra incentive to players to hunt down bloodthirsty player killers with the wanted system but they implemented it terribly and had little consequence to the wanted players. Letting people just port their characters into survival brought all the duped items that were a problem in adventure into this mode immediately. And even if this type of setting encourages “toxic” behavior the consequences are still heavily reduced compared to that of Rust because you get to keep your gear, your camp can’t be destroyed while offline(Bethesda ended making camps indestructible even in survival mode anyways) and if you truly get completely depleted of aid ammo and junk(you should be stashing your junk and limit the amount of aid and ammo you carry to minimize potential losses) you can just go back to adventure mode and get those resources back without interference of PvP. Since PvP affected the gameplay so much and was advertised as such the community agreed that they were basically PvP servers

[@johnhilton4245]

You could almost say that no one liked the whole getting murdered randomly by some jackass in a power suit

[@DeeZire]

Some reasonable points but to blame players is unfair and totally overlooks Bethesda's part in this - bottom line is, *they can't do PvP*. They launched the game without the Hunter/Hunted mode, without Survival mode, without Nuclear Winter but with laggy servers, no push to talk and game speed linked to framerate. PvP and PvE was by design all on the same server in the same game instances. The PvP mechanics they did implement were so janky and poorly conceived that they actively deterred PvP type activity. So it was never going to be useful, worthwhile or even a viable play style. Survival mode was ditched after so many changes, nerfs and 'rebalances' along with server instability that just put players off. Nuclear Winter never came out of BETA and covered only a portion of the game area. All of this is within a game that is poorly balanced for a PvP experience as it's genesis and continued development has been from a PvE perspective with an endgame based heavily around a grind which in turn created an active out-of-game market for items - meaning, PVP players do not engage with the grind and do not spend money on the game as they go elsewhere for desirable items instead. PvP players played the game as Todd Howard intended - by "creating their own fun" - so it's unfair to attribute dwindling player numbers to PvP players because they invariably stuck to NW mode anyway - conversely, you could say their presence was keeping player numbers high. To cut to the chase - FO76 continues to exist because of its model as a revenue generator and PvP players were significantly less likely to engage with monetization either through the Atom Shop or Fallout 1st so Bethesda has cut them loose. By reducing the player count in this way, Bethesda thus increases the percentage of players that are monetized thereby artificially making the model look more like a success. It's business, not players.

[@Dr.TC_]

Yeah it wasn’t entirely PvE players’ fault, Bethesda had a big part in it as well. The same thing happens to the vault raid and NW, they introduce it all clunky/broken, abandon it, and then say “hardly anyone plays it we’re gonna get rid of it” While survival mode did get some changes, a lot of them were mentioned in the video and they were influenced by PvE players

[@deadpelicanguy]

He doesn't make any reasonable points at all. All of his points are the usual straight up lies and falsehoods peddled by the PVP community. The basis of his argument is that "food builds" ruined PVP. That is completely and absolutely false. PVP was ruined by PVPers themselves. Every single PVPer I know is running duped gear and uses exploits of some kind. Trying to compete in PVP in this game without using duping and exploits- it's like trying to compete in professional bodybuilding without steroids. And that is the real problem, the elephant in the room that no PVPer on youtube will acknowledge because it undermines their delusion that they are actually good at PVP.

[@JohnLee-pr2qc]

Wasnt pve players fault period, that's was all bethesda idiocy.

[@slameradon165]

@@deadpelicanguy To be fair though, Fallout 76 doesnt have the same luxuries that other games with open PVP have....say for example, decent load times. Half the time in 76, you'll load into a place and already be under attack because your character model loaded in about 15 seconds before you got out of the load screens. Combine that with Bethesda's already slow server response time and you're basically already dead before you even get out of the loading screen, especially considering how few "spawn points" there seem to be for every location. And thats only one issue that's coming from the top of my head regarding Bethesda's game design choices....

[@AbysmalSeasoning]

@@deadpelicanguy Again not everyone uses duped gear or exploits. There are some of us who fight for the game and community. there are worse things in the game you have no idea about. some of us are keeping that at bay

[@directordavidson3151]

Personally I don’t care for PvP, I do however think that they should have kept survival mode for PvPers as just because I didn’t like it didn’t mean others can’t enjoy it.

[@SNAKEVENOM-ws8ws]

Imo they need to bring back survival, but tweak it and have a completely new character that can only be used in that gamemode (like nuclear winter)

[@Dr.TC_]

I’d say they should let you bring your character but absolutely no gear or items. Everyone starts at vault 76 and works their way from there. Disabling legendaries would make balancing the mode a million times easier and would add a need for crafting. Without legendaries, there is no need for damage cap and because of that build variety flourishes

[@SNAKEVENOM-ws8ws]

@@Dr.TC_ and i agree but they would need to add a cryo legendary perk, and work on lots of glitches. And keep the exp gain to lvl fast will also dropping junk and aid like it used to be

[@Dr.TC_]

@@SNAKEVENOM-ws8ws yeah they should make it mods, kinda like how some armor has lead lined mods to boost rad resistance, they could add the warming effect as a mod slot, and winterized mods for PA for cryo resist

[@SNAKEVENOM-ws8ws]

@@Dr.TC_ totally agree

[@SNAKEVENOM-ws8ws]

@@Dr.TC_ if they'd just listen not all bbn pvpers are animals we can be reasoned with (i don't think bethesda will bring back survival because they need to find a way to monetize it)

[@entertheunknown3554]

PvP sweats when they can't one shot

[@awanderingjoker7378]

I mean, you make a few fair points but as someone who used to love the PvP in this game, it's crap PvP and your tone about it is all wrong. Sure, you can get away with calling people "food builds" all you want but it isn't a clever insult or even deeply insulting to anyone. It's one of the things that make people cringe about the PvP community in this game. You also won't get any love from the PvE community, if you're insulting them. They may spread lies and misinformation like you claim, though it's working and killing off the player base of PvP focused folks. The game itself isn't skill based, you can mitigate a complete lack of skill with legendary weapons and armor. Then you can further mitigate the lack of skill with aid spam. So, where is the fun in that? A good handmade fight is amazing, even a tesla fight between people who aren't spamming quantums back when it was a more common thing was fun. SPraying someone with a legacy plasma, when the person obviously can't fight back is a crap move and everyone knows it. Yet, sadly, those are what people run into when it comes to PvPers more often than not. Thing is, man, if you keep whining about it you're just as bad as the PvE folks who are trying to shut down PvP entirely. Me, personally? I'd love to have Survival mode back, one star legendaries and actual functional survival mechanics. Anyway, sorry for the long run on paragraph, typing on mobile sucks but I understand you're fustration and you have good video quality. Have a good one, if you see this. If not, same goes for anyone who might read it.

[@awanderingjoker7378]

@A Intersting and Unique name Oh, I wasn't by any means claiming that you need a legacy to PvP. I was stating what folks run into that cause the toxicity between the two communities in this game is all. Like I said in my original comment, a good handmade fight is amazingly fun and it's really all you need to PvP. The fact that it's all you need doesn't change the fact "food builds" run into people with legacy Gat Plasmas or legacy teslas that act toxic, which in turn paints the PvP community as toxic. It's incredibly common, sadly. And I get it, people feel griefed to some degree by their side of the game being slowly chipped away at, so they chip at the PvE'ers. Doesn't make it right, regardless. I PvP'ed with a B/25/15RL handmade and Scout armor, sometimes broke out a tesla if that's where the fight went. Thing I never did was grief someone who's just trying to farm whatever they want, unless taking a workshop was a daily challenge.

[@jasonmaxwell9762]

The PVE community are a bunch of communist like this guy.

[@awanderingjoker7378]

@@jasonmaxwell9762 Oh, good sir, I'm positive you don't know what the word communist means in the slightest. I'm also certain you didn't read the post at all. I didn't once state anything about Marxism, nor did I say I was a part of the PvE community. I said I was an active PvP community member, that became disenfranchised with how terrible the game is. I also pointed out that, if you like it or not, the PvE community seems to have the most swing with Bethesda when it comes to getting things done in game. If it's based on lies or truth, it's working to kill the PvP community. I also said I wanted an actual survival mode back, with actual survival mechanics. Now, I'm gonna ask that if you wanna chime in on anyone's post in the future? I suggest you read something and avoid the buzz words. Makes you look ignorant and we wouldn't want that. Hope you have a good day, sir. I won't be responding to anything else you have to say.

[@hyperionsf3220]

I think survival mode would be amazing to have back, just for the double exp it had at one time. Great way to level. I think more mechanics, such as actual starvation and dehydration, need to be brought back. Want to spam aid/chems? OK. Enjoying dying faster in the next few seconds because it's just going to give you 2-3 seconds of boost to try and take someone out, while you probably even take yourself out in a weird suicide manner.

[@DarthMorius]

I wanted to sympathize, but the entire time I was listening/watching your video, I just heard the Heavy from TF2 in the back of mind yelling "cry some more".

[@wraith0000001]

I'm a PvE person not a PvP person. For all those that enjoy killing each other in PvP then I say leave them to it. Everyone has aspects of the game they like. If PvP players want to kill each other in a specific mode, on specific maps and they want a leader board to let everyone to know they are the best at doing it. Then that fine with me. There should not be any adventuring in the PvP arena. That's what the main map is for. Keep PvE and PvP game play separate and let players enjoy the game whichever way they want to play it.

[@trebot9292266]

so you're saying return it to where it was, but stop pve players from crying when they killed while playing on the server.

[@zero5496]

I don’t like pvp and I don’t care about pvp and especially this game’s pvp, but I care about the pvp players, they deserve better

[@DyingInformant]

Really fascinating....I'm a newer player and I never experienced Survival mode...Definitely play PvE and can't stand PvP because first of all, you never stand a chance as a newer player against a level 400 with an insane weapon that never reloads and his health never seems to go down...I've come across a few too many of these "god mode" type of situations in workshops, and many times it was before I even was able to get ANY RESOURCES for all the time and effort and resources it took for me to build it....Then I LOSE CAPS for already being unfairly attacked...It was terrible and my boyfriend, who just got back into gaming and we started playing 76 together, was having particular issues with PvP players and he really got discouraged once and almost wanted to stop playing....You have to remember that many fans of Fallout are used to a single player campaign and we wanted a co-op type of Fallout to enhance it further, not wanting to get bullied by God mode cheaters...It would be ok if it was atleast a fair fight....You know what you get with workshops 😬 That said I've also encountered really welcoming and generous players! One guy gifted me like a really great gun, Ultracite power armour pieces, and a jetpack for it, and I was freakin out, I was so happy LOL, it made my day, no, my week 😆 That's really sad about the lack of players, I was afraid that was true...But it's a great game actually with alot more potential, I hope they can please PvP players and all players more, we need the numbers! 😳

[@crypted1562]

Funny they don't cheat just take advantage at op builds at the time I am just reaching the "god mode" stage myself hell they could be even using legacy weapons

[@umail2570]

Met lots of terrific people playing f76 both in nuclear winter and especially in adventure mode

[@bradjames3105]

Unless you're on pc they're not cheating, they have grinded their perfect build for damage

[@CIintB3ASTW0oD]

@@bradjames3105 Some stack armor or use ammo glitched guns. That's cheating. Or use legacies, which is borderline cheating.

[@fees456]

@@CIintB3ASTW0oD yeah ppl have been cheating on this game for PvP since it came out and the exploits get patched and later replaced by another exploit after the ppl that are cheating can’t cheat and get farmed off the servers and have to have a group therapy brainstorming session to find a new exploit to be any good at PvP. Legacies get used because even if someone isn’t cheating if they have a good build, consumables, and good armor like power armor with the ESA effects and use stealth boys you won’t be able to kill them without using a legacy gat plas or laser and it’s still hard because you need a lot of dps to get past their healing/ perks and legacy’s have a lot of dps.

[@shift6847]

Pvp was dead the moment it became a fallout game. A Pve fanbase of a Pve franchise will most likely not do Pvp. Who would have thought? Pvp should have never been a option in the first place.

[@OPA_Ceres]

When this game was at its peak, before survival the communities ran on a 3 part system; farmers, traders, and PVPers. Farmers sold to the pvpers, traders sold the gear and pvpers provided security and raided other clubs farmers and traders. Bethesda killed the communities, vending machines inflated prices and killed the trader communities, farmers who are you selling to anymore? And without survival all the og pvp groups are well gone. Why are there no new world events or public events they only added 7 since launch wtf who wants to farm the same events for 2yrs straight

[@KM-bx6to]

PVP in this game sucks because it's broken and unbalanced. It doesn't take any actual skill, and the only factor for success is having lots of items, something that the "best" players in the game probably bought with real world money. Pure shooting skills, like what was somewhat available in nuclear winter, should be the only factor. Sounds like the devs eventually have plans to open up options for pure PVP on private worlds, and I'm honestly fine with staying there exclusively. Team death match might be a fun novelty with 4v4, but unless you can completely eliminate legacies, duped items, or aimbots this isn't the game for PVP

[@Alva_Lombax]

I feel like the game should have had a dedicated PvP mode instead of mixing pvp with pve, which in my experience is always badly implemented

[@LightCrib2]

I think games should stop trying to be both PvP and PvE. Trying to be both just means the game is limited both sides (Like destiny 2)

[@chaos2.068]

Wouldn’t have been a problem if they had separate pvp and pve servers. Those who don’t want to fight don’t have to worry about it. Balancing could be different per mode and catering wouldn’t have to happen because you chose the pvp side. Literally would have fixed everything

[@blueboigaming5189]

PvP sweatlord tryhards who spend everyday grinding and maxing everything mad because they can't easily gank low levels who can't fight back.

[@robloxepicadventures]

Most every time I try to pvp, the are in god mode. Therefore pvp can die in hell

[@Dr.TC_]

God mode was patched. You most likely faced people who aid spammed

[@germanfanboy2061]

Its godmode its a good build and aid Spam

[@sethx1327]

You should make a video talking about how PvP players ruined the game by forcing PvP while exploiting

[@oddersisadog]

I stopped playing the moment I found out you got put on a leaderboard for having the highest amount of kills and the enemy could see you and find you through walls and objects. I spent weeks getting all Chameleon armor and a wounding mg42. The moment I was ready I went to Flatwoods and murdered like 12 people in a row and as they kept coming back to hunt me they all failed due to my stealth and wounding. Eventually I got killed by a guy and I saw the kill cam. They dude ran right up to me in a bush from like 1000 meters away. Big 'ol Red Nametag right above my invisible body in the bush. So stupid.

[@vortex7733]

i felt pain reading this comment. but its 76 so its defiantly a true story. i want to know what the dev who added that in was thinking. as if snipers ninjas or any other stealth builds need that in the game. what they thought you were going to sneak around kill people then jump into power armor and go ranbo? just shows Bethesda lost touch with players, not that they care mind you.

[@boskilingenfelter9515]

so.....you are mad that you cant just camp flatwoods and rack up kills without it giving the people a chance to fight back? You suck at pvp lol

[@drnobody1908]

Almost every god damn community that says PVEers ruined the PVP 99.9% of the time the PVPers are the ones that ruined it by cheating, cheese, exploitation, etc. You got no one else to blame.

[@Antpoison]

I agree, there should’ve been a mode where you were allowed to pvp and one to just chill and vibe, as a non pvper I’d rather there be a mode for merciless killing machines vs merciless killing machines the just all being lumped together

[@CommanderMcDuff]

I used to do a lot of PvP when this game first came out, but PvP was more so ruined alongside meta builds. Shit just wasn’t fun when every player you fought was running some intricate invincible build. That’s why I turned to Nuclear Winter, but then of course they got rid of that.

[@ernestthemadhatter-2-274]

Just saying most pver’s including me are not going to miss this game mode one bit because of players like you

[@MerrillDragonAge]

Came here after I got griefed in adventure mode. I'm lvl 47, they were lvl 114. Oh my precious precious wood scraps.

[@southcheesecake]

PVP has no place in a game with autoaim and heavy reliance on gear behind a massive rng grind. They should redo survival were you start with a level 50 character seperate from your adventure character and it has a basic loadout. There is no Vats and now you could get legendary armor and weapons by using the new legendary core system, that way you get legendary cores would be by doing events or killing other players. All gear and levels should be acquired in Survival mode. And trading is disabled, we dont want people running around with hacked in weapons on that mode and spreading them. Not only would this mode have a xp boost but also a score boost to encourage people to actually play it. You guys say that you liked the gamemode cause it was challenging but all you guys were doing was going to g2a and typing tse weapons and assasins armor. Survival was amazing at the beginning but the tryhards just had to ruin the damn thing, it went from being a mode for surviving into a PVP hub which was not the intention. They should just make another gamemode where its just a coloseum and people duke it out if you want pvp ask for that.

[@RafaelSantos-pi8py]

A pvp public event . A serverwide announcent , an indoor location so that only pvp players enter it, close quarters to make melee viable and legacies less powerful since you can hide behind walls (no spray and pray), two teams fight each other with npcs to make up for smaller teams, the reward pool is the same as daily ops, so the best rewards available. The event ends, players return to non hostile stautus pve mode.

[@slameradon165]

@@RafaelSantos-pi8py You mean Monster Mash?

[@RafaelSantos-pi8py]

@@slameradon165 Sure. Make it a public event, with treasury notes and legendary cores as rewards and you'll se more people playing it instead of just farming ghouls for xp.

[@lewiscameron5761]

I hated pvp in 76. And my response was always "if you want pvp go to the pvp mode." And after hearing this I say the same. If you want pve and don't want pvp? Stay in the pve mode. Let people who want something enjoy what they want.

[@sim7508]

Or maybe it was the broken ass builds that made almost all but the most dedicated players not play survival mode or PvP in adventure mode.

[@thesistersofbattle]

This is an attempt to replicate "The Fall of 76." Poorly.

[@hellsrs470]

Only thing I dislike about pvp is some random hitting me over an over an it's like guy leave me alone I dont care that you want to fight. legacies dont need to be part that's for sure they take all the fun away for everyone most toxic thing ever is gat plas an lasers with stealth boys an people spamming quantums

[@yorukage5926]

There are 2 kinds of PvP players. Ones that are nice about it and don't go around like animals hunting people and ones that will do everything in their power to make your life on the server a living hell

[@Dr.TC_]

I don’t get how people can go following the same person just shooting at them and being cunts, I don’t even bother shooting at people 99% of the time, and when I do it’s only at people dressed head to toe in BoS cringe and I only shoot once(being dressed head to toe in enclave stuff I’m pretty sure they get the idea) I pretty much only go after people in workshops if at all

[@pingus9934]

They should have pvp factions. Like once you hit a certain cap you have the option to join a faction. Depending what faction it is you have rival factions and the rival factions can kill each other without "permission". Also some missions where you're exposed and have to transfer something to another location. But in doing so you get a major pay out, at the same time the attacker gets something out of it too. Kinda like cargo missions in gta.

[@aliasfakename8345]

Excuse me for not wanting to go against a lvl 700 fresh out of the vault

[@dannydavidson5810]

I'd much rather have kept survival mode then nuclear winter moot point now there getting rid of that to

[@IrregularrAF]

Same thing going on with New World. It was basically an Eve Online open world PvP game. It's marketed as a PvP game, but they're trying to cater to PvE players. Basically aborted the game before launch since it was hands on sight, before launch it turned into "I can flag myself for PvE and be safe now". Basically destroying the whole point of a faction war, and faction control.

[@skyrimisforthenords8312]

Fallout 76 could recreate the feeling of the old wilderness in runescape and really elevate this game. Setting up a decent risk reward like losing one piece of gear every time you die and always respawning in a small safe zone at vault 76 on pvp worlds. Could really change this ge for the better

[@elijahnakumura4375]

Or make a runescape “wild” equivalent . Once you cross into a certain area it’s free game

[@jeremikenagy5365]

Great idea

[@_Roik]

3:24 bro its always the excavators

[@miloknight585]

When I was level 12 or so, I played Survival because it felt like a more authentic experience. I didn't care for the pvp elements, but I thought they made the multi-player aspect of the game mean something. I just wish that survival was still in the game, because I never actually got to experience what the pvp was like due to my low level.

[@ericcardinal9138]

As I've been saying for years, a game having great pvp or pve can happen, but a game having both? Not every game can be made in a way where the pve can prosper without the quality of pvp getting lowered. The same can be said for a reverse scenario.

[@The_Only_Mr_Bear]

PVP Players: "PVE Players Ruined Survival Mode and the PVP community because they dont wanna PVP." Everyone Else: "Right PVE players ruined it not the BS Legacys thats made PVP trash to where the servers just die because only 5 people wanna be in a sever with you killing them with a single bullet."

[@SMDTURBO]

Exactly this. I use to PVP before all the trash kids spamming legacies. It's garbage now. Just buy your loadout on gameflip and there you go, that's all they do.

[@montystroud8856]

Why dont they do something like rust did where you could pick what server to join and if you hosted a server you could impose constant pvp on the people that joined or add hardcore aspects back

[@CryBite]

I feel like most people who like Fallout like it for the fact that its an mmorpg with an interesting lore not a cheap buggy call of duty

[@D1ssrupt]

Bring back survival, remove damage cap on non-automatic weapons, and nerf colas

[@CHADAFallout76Podcast]

I'm the first person to admit I'm not keen on PVP, though friends and I regularly do fight club nights and Monster Mash. A full server in that high school is madness and reminds me of the fast paced maps of Quake back in the day. BUT I also think abandoning survival servers was a mistake and those people who were sold on the idea of PVP as part of this game from the beginning when this was supposed to be a more Rust-like experience had nowhere to go. The issue with survival was that it was unbalanced and PVE players were incentivized to go over there to get rare rewards (lord knows I did). It felt like instead of fixing some of this issues, the mode was abandoned all together. I've always respected people who enjoy PVP and learned a lot from TYR and some others who are looking for an honest challenge. It's ridiculous when people claim a workshop and then complain on reddit when they were attacked. The term "griefing" is overused with people leveraging that term if they are in any way attacked in a PVP zone like a workshop. Whenever I had the chance to interview anyone on the team at Bethesda, I always asked what the plan was for PVP and last year they did say that a PVP mode would be coming to private servers in the future. Anyway, I'm sorry the game has changed so much for you guys.

[@budscaglini]

Love u chad

[@CHADAFallout76Podcast]

@@budscaglini :) Thank you

[@slameradon165]

You mean abandoned like theyre now abandoning Nuclear Winter?

[@n0pfy1]

I don’t PVP much but will if attacked at a workshop and am in the right mood for a battle. I wish they would make it so you could use your private server from fallout 1st, set it to Survival mode, allow public users to join it and up to the full limit of users that the public servers have. Basically you would broadcast your public server availability with whatever settings you want. Allow people to join and have a free for all PVP battle. You could join it, an standard Adventure server or any other customized server marked as public. Just think someone could make a server with their own Arena camp for open PVP battles.

[@Dr.TC_]

I believe that’s what they’re planning on adding with the private server overhaul in the fall, it’ll be ass if it’s still limited to 8 players though

[@aqz9433]

Dr. TC is s scammer on fallout 76 trading community, be careful

[@Dr.TC_]

I am in market76’s blacklist cause I’m in demon asylum’s discord, I don’t scam people for pixels, I’m not stupid and/or desperate

[@fudgeknuckle952]

I never played NW, but i did get dozens of rewards from AFK'ing in the same bush over and over while i worked. Good stuff.

[@Rincewind75]

Thank you for the shout out at the end of the video man :)

[@JanderStrahd]

"Entitled PvEers" is a new one.

[@joeguy5989]

I have always played adventure mode, sometimes on the public server, and mostly on my private server, so I hadn't known about these issues. I had always wished, once I got around to trying pvp, that a really good version of pvp server would be available for myself and others. I hope Bethesda can fix this. I do think the two servers should be separate though, for obvious reasons.

[@theleviathan7383]

My only complaint is that while I was a level ten who managed to repair a a fusion core factory some level 450 with full power armor with some sort of death claw helm and a exploding rad mini gun and destroyed everything and kept griefing me after when he claimed it

[@bread7932]

One problem you didn't mention is that full loot, pvp, is never very successful, that said I think the PvP was fine at the start beyond the loss of med items and looking back the low number of players on pvp worlds, the 15 cap works on free roam but pvp should have been higher to make resources more scarce, increase the chance of encountering others, and to incentivize teams a little more.

[@slooed5855]

PVP wasn’t ruined by PVERS. It was ruined by Bethesda’s horrible updates to their game.

[@Sam-cruel]

Fallout 76 was never going to be a good PvP based game for several reasons. Balancing being the primary issue with the sheer amont of exploitable things in the game not to mention the hacked n duped gear that is highly accessable for anyone who wants it and are willing to become a credit card warrior which from my experience includes an uncomfortably large amont of players. Theres also major RNG involved in the game at every angle hell my bloodied characters entire survival is based around rng but even if it wasnt we have access to gear such as assassins-sentinel in which case i turn into a bigger bullet sponge than Earl and can go afk making a cup of coffee while you unload as many bullets as you see fit unless you use the other issue of built in aimbot ( vats ) to crit me which somehow magically ignores all legendary effects. I like the idea of PvP existing as i enjoy PvP in most games myself ( fallout not being one of them ) however in order for PvP to be enjoyable there needs to be some serious restrictions such as no legendary effects n what not. With Nuclear Winter shutting down due to being unpopular which was both a full on PvP mode aswell as a restricted PvP mode i´d say its fair to say a big portion of the players you´re refering to dident enjoy PvP as much as they make it out to be but just as your actual ingame clips shows they enjoyed acting as the perpetrator in op gear and got upset when people dident want to act out the role of their victims. So why did most "PvP players" not enjoy Nuclear winter?. because it was too fair and dident give them an upperhand. For me to consider PvP actual PvP it needs to be on even terms where both sides has an equal or at the very least very simular chance of winning n skill being the deciding factor which is also what i would describe as the difference between PvP and just griefing.

[@dirtylaundry7368]

adding pvp ruined pve ...........................

[@Silversmith70]

The only good thing about food builds is the tacos, they make really good tacos. I don't know why they would get rid of that mode and now NW. PVP seems done with this game. Its too bad because when I log on I see bored Veteran players and they need something fun to do, farming corn aint it.

[@Mr_JordanL]

My settlement ends up nuked because the game doesnt close properly when exiting to desktop and you can't always tell the process is still running until you see it in task manager. They need to fix that

[@capin8067]

the only thing i didnt like about survival was that my low level self at the time didnt stand a chance

[@Dr.TC_]

i feel ya bud, before damage cap bloodied meat hook melee users were the bane of my existence, I got one once though at like level 25 because there was no damage cap, he got owned by a .50 cal ball to the head

[@Rincewind75]

Never underestimate a low level. I have low level PvPed for over a year and have taken down level 500's The only thing holding you back is you... ask questions fix your build try something new and try again Keep at it man and have fun learning as you go

[@aronwellbelove7780]

The atom shop was at fault, and this was referanced by bathesda upon removal of most pvp aspects - Specific clothes garned an advantage in PVP clothes that were only avaliable in the atom shop - not only that utility items - Bethesda specifically said pvp was removed to ensure that things like repair kits will be a 'conveniance' not a paid 'advantage' no matter how small the advantage - All of this is because they know the community will not stand for a 'paid advantage' in micro transactions, remember the atom shop was billed as 'cosmetic only and offering no advantage in gameplay' itwas when that changed that pvp was removed - This is also why 'pvp only' servers are not an option, Bethesda would have to restrict atom shop for people that play on them servers - no recurring income.

[@Kitozano]

Lol check the number of players in-game again. Also the reason why it’s declining is because there’s not a lot of content to do. Besides the dailies and the events. Dailies probably last 20-30 min and events aren’t popping often enough.

[@Dr.TC_]

It always gets a bigger player number near and after big updates, locked and loaded also cause an uptick in players but went right back down after like 2-3 weeks, with steel reign coming soon lots of players will be hopping on again for a bit but by august the numbers will go back down again

[@Kitozano]

@@Dr.TC_ to be fair that’s true in every multiplayer or game with new content that had/will come out.

[@tnerbtnerb5136]

Such a simple solution really. Have PvP designated ZONES on the map that are tied to NOTHING but PVP. Hell, make it so only certain weapons provided by the DEVS are allowed in those zones, so no one has an advantage. You live or die on your skillset alone. And then everything else you keep PVP mode the FUCK out of a historically PvE exclusive game. ... The devs created a mode that was not only difficult, but heavily favored PvP players and their tactics, yet also provided objectively superior rewards to the more conventional mode; meaning opting out of this mode meant you got less benefit for your time. This was an inevitability.

[@Slashed888]

Really interesting to see this. Seems like Bethesda has a bad habit of trying to incentivize players to play the game in different ways. If they hadn’t tried to force PVE events into the same leaderboard they might have avoided this to begin with. Ultimately they failed to understand that certain players PVP and some like PVE.

[@apocalypseapostle8319]

Not a PvP player myself, but to me it would seem like a good solution to add a function to choose either PvE or PvP when you log into a server, so you have to choose between them and be locked in for the session in said mode. And choosing PvP could enable Leaderboards, bounties and all that good stuff, and choosing PvE vould just give you the regular experience. It makes it so that you have to choose and have to log out to wimp out of PvP mode. Seperate servers is an option, but doesn't work too good to get people hyped on trying the PvP function, so seeing it in action while playing PvE. So letting all players see the leaderboard and bounties can give insentive to test it for themselves. Just some thoughts on how it can be fixed under the current system.

[@anthonystern7864]

You're not important to the survival of Bethesda games. Get used to it.

[@Hardrada_129]

I would love a PvP mode like survival, but with disabled legendary effects. That way it's more about your skill and the quality of the gear you use, as opposed to whatever magical effects you rolled at a workbench. This also means that legacy weapons won't just dominate the entire scene, preventing anyone without a BE Gatling Plasma from ever winning. This would also give gear a logical progression. That cheap, easy to make/find pipe weapon may be good against low level or lightly armored targets, but you'd be better off throwing your bullets at someone in power armor. In that case you'd want something larger, maybe an energy weapon or explosive. Another idea would be to split character progression. Your survival mode character would have the same level, camp, currencies, and perks, but armor and weapons would not cross over.

[@Demiurge13]

considering that pvp'ers always ruin most mmos with their entitled game changes requests, I have no sympathy for the reverse happening to them. In fact it's poetic, it's karma. I find it quite funny

[@catcrimes80]

Love the Thumbnail. White guy: Medic who is a bit of an alcoholic from drinking the Liquor 🥃 he was supposed to save for patience. Woman: Hard ass sharpshooter who was raised by a harder asshole brahmin rancher. Black guy: Scientist who is fascinated with old world-prewar Military tech.

[@arandomelite5448]

I wanted to like pvp, but 76s pvp was dead on arrival since how good one did was based around ones rng if you got the better weapon off that 3 star mole rat you win, there never could be a fair fight the better weapon wins not better skill. hense why I kinda enjoyed nuclear winter since it involved skill and nor explosive gatling plasmas.

[@devgrugaming]

Lol people keep blaming pve players. I’ve been with 76 since the beta. Pvp has been nerfed due to people baiting low levels and new players. Also due to the weapons called legacy.

[@devgrugaming]

Also due to all the fuckin exploits. Survival was filled with god mode glitchers.

[@MerrillDragonAge]

I just got griefed by some 114 lvl player 😔

[@ApocalypticGaming1214]

I’m not huge on pvp but I am big on immersion and would love it if they brought survival mode back but maybe made a few tweaks. I never got to experience it so it’s something I would definitely give a try. Feeling like you could get sniped and killed while just out roaming minding your business kind of sounds awesome if I’m being honest lol

[@rhettshanley8712]

I tried playing it when it came out with my friend. But the first player who killed us had a illegal explosive,two shot 50. Cal and spawn killed us for 10 minutes and when we would run away he would chase us down

[@willbartonbottomtext181]

I miss nw, and survival. Mostly miss survival for the extra Pve rewards. I occasionally dabble in pvp, but it’s not fun anymore because people use esa power armor. It makes them practically unkillable, which makes pvp pointless. This is coming from a guy who owns a set but chooses not to use it. And are food builds really the toxic ones? Food builds are just minding their own business, and pvpers attack them out of nowhere, abuse the electrically charged bug to get them into pvp, then do the laughing emote or other toxic emotes when they kill them. Or when a pve player is trying to claim a workshop and someone just comes in and waits for the perfect moment, then start claiming the workshop and insta kill the pve build, not even giving them time to react, stealing all their junk. Sounds kinda cringe to complain about pve builds, when they are the ones getting bullied.

[@toe_stealer6930]

When survival mode was first announced I thought it was going to be like Dayz, you die and lose everything, and that there would be hunger/thirst and no real campaign, leveling, or quests.

[@WeaponX1234]

Survival got the pvpers out of adventure mode so why do they complain

[@deadpelicanguy]

Because that is a lie. Survival didn't get PVPers out of survival mode. Survival mode launched and then, in a matter of days, PVPers were back in adventure mode attacking workshops. PVPers are not helping their cause when their arguments are based upon lies and straight up falsehoods.

[@WeaponX1234]

@@deadpelicanguy A lot left for quite sometime and stayed in survival

[@A3R0111]

@@deadpelicanguy Actually, your counterargument is false. I've been a regular PvPer since the Beta days, and I can firmly say with 100% Certainty that Adventure mode had less PvP players than Survival did up until they started changing shit because of how the PvE playerbase constantly bitched and moaned. Also, if you take a workshop even in Adventure mode, you can't bitch about getting killed since they are infact PVP FOCUSED ZONES. If the foodies stayed out of OUR mode, then survival would still be up to this day I guarantee it. I think the fact of the matter is that you PvE players think you should be the ones to decide the fate of a feature that you don't even partake in. Granted in the early stages of the game people still griefed bases and what not but hey, that's Bethesda's and the griefers of early 76's fault. Every update to PvP were balance changes NOBODY IN THE PVP PLAYERBASE WAS ASKING FOR. The nerf on caps gained by player kills, the damage cap, the constant nerfing of survival, those were all changes the PvE playerbase were clamoring for even though they had no right to. Hell I had to talk to 2 community managers and a fucking actual Fo76 developer to fix a vats bug for PvP that's been there since wastelanders came out. THAT'S A YEAR AND A HALF OF CONSTANT BUG REPORTS AND REDDIT POSTS TO JUST GET THEIR ATTENTION all because anything PvP related gets downvote bombed on reddit.

[@DarkoVoid]

1st year 76 was best on console. Besides all the rolling disconnects and framerate issues. The survival aspect was there with having to eat/drink, full night cycles, low level to high level zones, and the threat of raiders. Had a beef with someone go kill them when they are afk or wipe out their base and get a bounty. Deal with bounty hunters until your buds jump on to claim bounty or die. Capless bum on death? Here's a debuff for a few hours. Ahhh the good ol' days. First day survival was insane too! I filled two alts with aid items killing players. The drop all aid items was a good mechanic imo since it would knock out players from the fight until they could grab the items they needed and return. The good survival PvPer would only carry what they needed for an engagement. Also having a team member with a movable camp with defense blueprints and stashes made life easier. The damage cap was the beginning of the end to PvP. In the early days there wasn't really a definite meta since EVERYTHING could one shot you. RIP single shot, shotty, and melee PvPers. Times change and it seems like the remaining majority of players don't want a hardcore survival game. They just want another mobile style grind game. As the super mutants around the wasteland say, "SO BORING".

[@wardy6224]

Shouldve forced players to make a brand new character who cant trade with characters from other game modes, sure it was fun for a bit ..but VaultDweller69 blasting you with his OP explosive mini-gun barrelled cryolator just wasn’t fun.. especially when the spawn points were limited to areas where you’d be decimated before you even loaded in

[@slameradon165]

Thats definitely the big thing I'd say. A problem lies within the shit coding and spawn locations for the game. Half of the time in actual PVP (something I tested with a friend of mine), your character model loads into a location before your screen gets out of loading itself, leaving you totally vulnerable for unknown periods of time. Combine that with players who go all-in on one-shot builds that allow them to melt anything with a quick burst from a Plasma Gatling, and you have a straight up, unfun experience to deal with.

[@General_Flores]

Ohno... PvP in a PvE series that have never had any possible form of PvP is suffering? This isn't a PvP game

[@glopsnopper3806]

it's an online game though. Let me shoot other players who want to do the same and you can farm the queen 10 times a day for all I care. If you want no part in it go and build a base and be quiet you tool

[@General_Flores]

@@glopsnopper3806 you get people who grief you for not fighting back. People complaining the "PvE community are ruining the PvP" in fallout is like complaining about there being no PvP in a a competitive Fishing game. Just because its online doesn't mean you need PvP. If more people played Nuclear winter they wouldn't be killing it. But there are more people who don't want to PvP than there are that do. PvPers are the ones who grief others

[@sodiumshadow6894]

@@General_Flores yes there should not be pvp in an online fishing game. But this is a game about war after the bombs there should be some pvp

[@General_Flores]

@@sodiumshadow6894 but the game isn't a PvP game. This is the only entry in the franchise both pre and post Bethesda acquisition, and therefore the franchise has always focused on the story telling, world building, roleplaying aspects etc. "Itd about war and bombs so it should have some PvP." No. It should have combat. It has combat with or without the PvP

[@sodiumshadow6894]

@@General_Flores but with an online fallout it gives more opportunities to do pvp if they just nurture it for a moment it can sprout and it can breathe new endgame content people want